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Rick's List
Dennis Kucinich Flips on Health Care Reform; Vatican Under Fire
Aired March 17, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here is what is making the LIST today
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: If my vote is to be counted, let it count now for passage of the bill.
SANCHEZ: The Kucinich flip and the story behind it. And where does that put the vote tally?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Still, by far and away, you guys spend the most money on lobbying.
BRUCE JOSTEN, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: So?
SANCHEZ: Questioning the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's role in our nation's policies.
Throw the Wall Street crooks in prison -- the senator who says that joins me live.
GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Can I give my statement on that, sir?
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We're short of time, but please go ahead.
SANCHEZ: McCain vs. General Petraeus. You will see it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't rape anybody.
SANCHEZ: An exclusive jailhouse interview with the syndicated radio host charged with child rape.
We heard what Toyota said about unintended acceleration. What do their so-called black boxes in cars say?
And the Vatican's take on the child abuse scandal from their official exorcist. Their what?
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
First of all, let me tell you what my executive producer has just told me, and that is that Nancy Pelosi is going to be speaking in the next 20 minutes to 30 minutes. We don't know whether she will be giving us the head count of how the health care vote is going. We expect it will have something, obviously, to do with health care.
And we will take it live as it happens. And we will also check in with our crews in the nation's capital to see if there's any information that they pick up prior to Nancy Pelosi giving that address.
Meanwhile, topping our list today, the Dennis Kucinich flip. The Democratic congressman told me this week, told me this about a week- and-a-half ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KUCINICH: I voted against the bill in the House. I voted against it because it essentially is a privatization of our health care system, which already is creating double-digit premium increases four consecutive years. It's pricing more and more people out of health care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: But, today, unlike what he told me then, he flipped. He called a news conference to say this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KUCINICH: After careful discussions with President Obama, Speaker Pelosi, my wife, Elizabeth, and close friends, I have decided to cast a vote in favor of the legislation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Here's a question now, staying with health care for a moment. Why are some groups so adamant for or against health care reform that they're willing to stake hundreds of thousands of dollars on it, for example, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce?
Now, when you think of a chamber of commerce, you probably picture neighborhood businesses, the folks who work and live in your own community, you know, the corner dry cleaner, for example, with the little plaque on the wall that says that he is a member of the Chamber of Commerce.
But the Chamber of Commerce is much, much more. They are there to lobby and to lobby in a big way.
Because you need to know, here now is CNN's Carol Costello with this revealing report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hello, Ohio!
COSTELLO (voice-over): The fight over health care reform is hotter than it's ever been. President Obama is in overdrive.
OBAMA: That's why we need health insurance reform right now.
COSTELLO: And those who want to block the current bills are in overdrive too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To ram through their same trillion dollar health care bill.
COSTELLO: They're spending in the millions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell Congress, stop this health care bill. We can't afford to pay.
COSTELLO: A powerful business coalition is behind this ad. It was paid for by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, one of the richest, most powerful lobbies in the country.
Dave Arkush is from Public Citizen, a consumer advocacy organization.
DAVID ARKUSH, PUBLIC CITIZEN: It is the way the game is played in partially, but they have got more resources to play it better than anyone else.
COSTELLO: Once upon a time, the Chamber of Commerce was known mainly as a business association, an ally for the local shop keeper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take that one. I just (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's swell.
COSTELLO: Today, critics like Public Citizen describe the Chamber as too political, with enormous influence over national policy.
According to the Center for Responsive Politics, between 1998 and 2009, the Chamber spent $606,758,180 to lobby lawmakers, pay for political ads and grassroots organizing. In 2009 alone, it spent $144. 5 million on lobbying a variety of different issues. COSTELLO (on camera): That's a lot of money.
BRUCE JOSTEN, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: Well, it is a lot of money, but I didn't hear a lot of concern about the union spending $420 million in the '08 elections to elect this majority.
COSTELLO: Still, by far and away, you guys spend the most money on lobbying.
JOSTEN: So? We're a lobbying organization.
COSTELLO (voice-over): The Chamber does support health care reform but doesn't think the president's plan is a good one. JOSTEN: I think where the public kind of gets a little askance when they hear we're going to cut half a trillion out of Medicare over here, we're going to create a new long term care entitlement trust fund over here, and, oh, by the way, $50 a day is not very much for long term care in any assisted living center anywhere in the free world.
COSTELLO: The Chamber says its stand on health care and other issues like climate change resonate beyond its membership. That's why it's been reaching out to non-members.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, we need you to join the fight.
COSTELLO: The effort in political speak is called grassroots organizing, and many organizations do it.
JOSTEN: What is grassroots? It's people like you. It's individuals, not just business people, across the country who happen to share the views on some positions that we as an institution have developed, by the way, with their input.
COSTELLO (on camera): Do you really have 6 million of them out there, working for you? Is that the goal or do you have those - that amount of people already?
JOSTEN: We - we have a database of about 6 million names of people that we can reach out to and activate. Yes.
COSTELLO (voice-over): Critics like Arkush says the Chamber has too much influence.
ARKUSH: The Chamber just recently announced it's going to spend $200 million to challenge vulnerable Democrats in the elections this fall. That is really frightening to members of Congress, and it makes them listen to the Chamber's lobbyists.
COSTELLO: And this week, the Chamber's lobbyists and hundreds of other lobbyists, backed by dozens of other organizations on both sides of the issue, are concentrating their efforts on one thing.
OBAMA: It's time to vote.
COSTELLO: Health care.
(on camera): Of course, the Chamber isn't the only lobbying organization to show its muscle. A few months ago, I did an in-depth piece on the Service Employees International Union and its efforts to pass health care reform. It boasted a war room with 400 full-time people working to get the president's plan passed. By next week, we may see who won.
Carol Costello, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Take a look at this piece of video that we just got. That's the president there just after he arrives. This is a meeting between him and Nancy Pelosi on Capitol Hill. Obviously, the bagpipes were too loud for any of the reporters to pick up the sound of what they discussed, but let me, again, remind you that she's called a news conference and she's going to be speaking in about 20 minutes or so, and we are trying to tally up the votes. And, yes, we will carry that news conference live.
Meanwhile, this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. Was that light green?
It happened again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "Was that light green?" she said. And then she repeats the -- this phrase, "It's happened again."
Well, that led some to start looking in to this, and you're not going to believe what we found out about the driver who was involved in this accident, heck, who was at fault in this accident. Remember, we showed you this story the other day. This is from our follow-up file. Stay right there. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to the LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez. Let me remind you that we have just learned that Nancy Pelosi is going to be speaking in about 15 minutes, and we're going to be carrying that live for you.
On our follow-up list, a story that you saw right here as it happened, and now we have more. This happened in downtown Houston, remember? It's a bus. It crashes right into a commuter train that sends 19 people to the hospital.
I have got two angles I'm going to show you, first this one. This was taken from the viewpoint of the train that was crashed into by this bus that ran the red light. You're about to see it right here one more time. Remember, 19 people were hurt in this crash, as you're looking at it as it develops.
And that is the angle. Watch the bus appear right there. Interestingly enough, it's the bus, again, that hits the train. Now I'm going to show you a couple of different angles, there are multiple shots, from inside the bus itself, and I want you to listen to what the driver says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. Was that light green?
It happened again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes. She says, "Wasn't that light green"? Well, unfortunately, the answer is, no, it was not. And then she kind of talks to herself and says, not again. Well, what did she mean by, not again? We wanted to know.
Here's what we found out from police. The driver has been involved in five accidents in three years and was still driving a bus. She has now been suspended without pay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNOLD PALMER, FORMER PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: He's going to be working on his game. He's working hard. He did say that he didn't feel like his game was up to what he needed it to be to play here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: What else did Tiger tell legend Arnold Palmer? That's coming up in just a little bit.
Also, do they or don't they have the votes to pass health care by this week? We're tallying it up for you, and now we understand we might be learning, in the next 15 minutes or so, from the speaker. Nancy Pelosi's going to be going before the cameras, and we're going to be carrying it live.
And Jessica Yellin's -- Jessica Yellin's list of political backstories is next. And I know it's my favorite part of the newscast and yours as well, so stay right there. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Yes, indeed, politics creates strange bedfellows. It seems like many Republicans were all but embracing Dennis Kucinich, and now they are so angry at him. Why? Because of the statement he made this morning, doing a complete Kucinich flip, as we have been calling it.
It certainly has been at the very top of our list, and it is on the list of things that Senator John McCain is tweeting about today. Senator John McCain tweets an awful lot, and he just said this, and we're going to show it with you -- show it to you.
"Breaking news," he writes, or tweets. "Kucinich will vote with Obama on health care. I'm shocked and surprised. Aren't you?"
So, there you have it.
Time for the Yellin list with award-winning national political correspondent Jessica Yellin.
Jessica, let me just start with the news that the speaker of the House has called a news conference that's about to start maybe in the next 10 minutes or so. Do you know anything about what she might be saying? JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, we have been waiting on the Congressional Budget Office's numbers for this bill, and to set a date for the vote. So, it seems it could -- I have no inside information on this. I have asked and I don't know yet, but it would seem logical that she could be announcing that if she has those numbers. They want that -- they wanted them by Monday.
SANCHEZ: What numbers? Are you talking about the vote tally or are you talking about the numbers about whether or not this is going -- yes, go ahead.
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: It's the analysis of how much this would cost, which some members are waiting on that price tag before they decide whether they will vote for it or not, and, so, bated breath, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: She wouldn't be calling a news conference if it wasn't good news for her side, right?
YELLIN: Well, you have to announce the CBO numbers, and you can always -- you have to put them in a context. Both sides will want to put them in a context.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
YELLIN: So, I imagine, even if they are not what she would have wanted, she would still want to explain them. So...
SANCHEZ: Isn't that called spin?
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: It's Washington. What else do you get here? Come on, Rick? We try to...
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: ... out of the spin, but...
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: All right, let's talk about -- let's quantify this as best we can.
YELLIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: It's her job, Nancy Pelosi's job, to deliver the votes. How many people at this point is Nancy Pelosi trying to flip to get her -- to vote for the president's health care reform plan, and who are these people? Do you know?
YELLIN: So, yes, it's a very fluid situation. So, what she needs is, there are 11 members or 11 nos that she has to turn into yeses or 11 undecideds to bring over to her side and also hold on to who she has.
The bottom line is the people she is looking for, Rick, are -- the holdouts who are Democrats who are anti-abortion Democrats who are concerned about abortion language, liberals who think the whole bill is too conservative and have held out, and then some of those freshmen and sophomores who are in very conservative districts and think they could lose if they vote yes. Those are the three categories of people she's looking to bring over.
SANCHEZ: Speaking of those liberals, those lefties, although you know what? I asked Dennis Kucinich the other day when I was interviewing him -- I asked him, you are a lefty? And he goes, no, I am not. He goes, I am not a lefty, I'm a centrist -- which I was kind of caught off guard by.
But let me ask you this, speaking of liberals, or whatever they want to call themselves, progressives, can Dennis Kucinich's decision today create some kind of bandwagon effect them?
YELLIN: I don't think so. I think, like Dennis Kucinich, every member right now is their own island and everyone is defined around them. I mean, if he's the center, I don't know what that world looks like. So, I think each person is holding out for their own and looking out for themselves at this point.
SANCHEZ: So, there are no Kucinich coattails?
YELLIN: I don't foresee there being, but -- I don't foresee there being...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Here's what bothers me about this whole thing as we look at Dennis Kucinich. I'm bothered and I think most Americans who are like-minded are bothered by the fact that when they, politicians, either on the left or on the right, feel desperate to get something cut, they cut deals. They do favors, you know?
I mean, that's how we got the Cornhusker thing and the Louisiana thing, whatever it is that people want to call it. And I fear that this kind of thing happens when it gets down to the nitty-gritty. How fearful should we be?
YELLIN: Well, Pelosi has vowed that she is not going to cut deals at this point. And, you know, Rick, one of the reasons that she's even considering this whole procedure that we have been talking about before called deeming or a self-executing rule is because so many members of the House were bothered by the deals cut in the Senate and they don't want to vote to pass those.
So, she's been pretty clear that there won't be deals cut at this point. Though you're right that they usually do get cut, this might be an exception. And I have one other thing to add. I do understand that on its face, at least, this is a -- the Pelosi event is going to be focusing on one of the jobs measures that they have passed.
SANCHEZ: One of the jobs measures that she's passed.
YELLIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Who sent you that e-mail?
YELLIN: Well, it's a blast e-mail from the Pelosi press office. They're going to hold a photo-op on the signing of the HIRE Act, so...
SANCHEZ: Here I am putting you on the spot.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Was that Mark Preston or Paul Steinhauser, one of those characters?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well done. So, well, obviously, she's going to be asked a lot of questions about what's going on with health care, right? She's not going to come out and expect not to be grilled on this?
YELLIN: Well, it says photo-ops. Usually, at photo-ops, they prefer to not answer questions. She will certainly be asked them.
SANCHEZ: She will be asked, but not necessarily answer.
YELLIN: We will see.
SANCHEZ: This is interesting. Did you see that little thing, that little exchange? Angie, if we have got that, I want to show that to Jessica.
Look at this little ditty between Nancy Pelosi and the president of the United States today, after he was leaving one of those Irish- American forums that he did today. Just watch this. Watch this.
YELLIN: Oh, interesting body language.
SANCHEZ: He grabs her hand. She grabs his hand back. He tries to walk away. She pulls him back. He pulls her over. She talks into his ear. Then he talks into her ear.
Jessica, you need to find out exactly what was said in that conversation.
YELLIN: What was said.
You know, we always assume that she is saying something like, Mr. President, we're going to get this done. Yes, Nancy, we will. And they were probably talking about some lunch they are going to have some day. It's never as interesting as we want it to be.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Well, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on, and I'm glad you're on it. Thanks so much. That's Yellin's list. And you're going to be joining me later on, though, right?
YELLIN: Yes. Looking forward to that.
SANCHEZ: We're talking to a senator. Let me just remind the viewers what we have coming up. We're talking to a senator who is on the record saying that certain people on Wall Street should be put in prison. You know how Christopher Dodd said the other day, look, this is not about punishing people? Well, this guy is saying to Christopher Dodd, no, this is about punishing people, which is what a lot of folks are saying on Twitter and on e-mails and et cetera, et cetera.
So, Jessica, who has been drilling down on this for the longest time, is going to join me as we talk to Senator Kaufman from Delaware. That's coming up in about a half-hour.
So, let me get to a break. Thank you, Jessica.
YELLIN: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Meanwhile, the RNC chairman, Michael Steele, he's going to be live here tomorrow. He's going to be joining me at 3:30 and he called us and said he wants to sit down and have a conversation. And we're glad he is going to do so. This should be good.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant sent him a message telling him that he was HIV-positive, something to the effect of -- it was: I have HIV. You probably do, too. Have a nice life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Whoa. Is it possible -- is it possible to be charged with using your own body as a deadly weapon? Well, guess what? As you may have heard in that interview right there, yes, it is, if you happen to have HIV. That's coming up in just a little bit.
Also, why is a sheriff leaving his desk and hitting the streets? Who is the most intriguing person in the news today? If you stay where you are, you're going to find out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: As we await the Nancy Pelosi statement that's coming up in just a couple of minutes now, I want to tell you who the most intriguing person in the news is today.
I first need to tell you that he is a lawman. He's been one a long time -- 67 years old, he is. But he's also a suit. He's a law enforcement executive. He basically rides a desk, as they say, not a squad car. Well, that is about to change. Here's the news. This sheriff, who commands the largest sheriff's department in the entire country, will suit up and a patrol shift Friday, 2:00 to 10:00 p.m. He's got his partner. He's going to write tickets. He's going to wear a bullet- proof vest and he's going to save some money.
Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca has ordered all of his captains, all of his lieutenants, and all of his sergeants and even himself to pull extra patrols, instead of paying deputies overtime with your money. He calls it leading from the front. And, by the way, it will save his unit $58 million this year and next.
Good for him, huh? Sheriff Lee Baca making the LIST today as the most intriguing person in the news.
Throw the Wall Street crooks in prison. That senator, you see right there, he's going to be joining me in just a little bit, and he says that's exactly what we should do, unlike what some of his colleagues have been saying. That's ahead.
Also, you're going to see what happens when an armored car is jacked. The video is incredible, captured by the station where I used to work in South Florida, WSVN. Wait until you see it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RICH SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: OK. Before we do anything else, I want to catch you up on a couple of items here that -- Nancy Pelosi, by the way, is -- I'm sorry, Pam? What's that? Oh, OK. The picture's gone, which means we're not going to be able to show you the shot that we were going to show you of Nancy Pelosi at the podium, that should be starting any minute.
There's a picture of the capitol, the reason we're showing you that, for those of you just joining us, is that Nancy Pelosi will be addressing reporters in just a little while.
She's going to be -- in fact, let me tell you exactly what she's going to be doing, because my colleague, Candy Crowley, has just sent me an e-mail, "Hey, Rick, take a look at this," and I'll take a look at it on the air with you.
This is apparently what she learned from Nancy Pelosi's office as sent from the Speaker's office to reporters. "Speaker Nancy Pelosi and House leaders will deliver brief remarks this afternoon" -- that's coming up right about now -- "at the enrollment ceremony to sign the hiring incentives to restore employment act and send to the president for his signature."
So, it sounds like she's going to be talking about this particular act, and, look, we're going to monitor it, because everything that Nancy Pelosi appears in and talks about is news these days because you can be guaranteed that she will be asked and may not or may answer questions about what's going on with health care. So, stand by on that.
Meanwhile, in America we call it soccer. In the rest of the world, it's called football. Time for "Fotos."
Our first stop is Iran. They call it football because you play with your feet. But this player from cam maroon used his hands and his head for fighting.
Striker John Nagodi (ph) rushed the stands, attacked spectators. Not sure what started it. It's like one man's soccer riot, but his fury soon extended to everyone there. See, this stuff is contagious, folks, players, refs, fans, everybody. No word on whether he'll be charged or suspended. What do you think, Brooke, suspended?
BALDWIN: Suspended.
SANCHEZ: Thank you very much.
In Florida, armed robbers rushed a brinks guard after he returned from a pick-up. Watch this. They wrestle inside the truck. And get this, the crooks fired a shot at the guards and missed. The bullet brushed his pants, we're told?
The banks driver hit the gas, threw one of the bandits to the pavement. The robbers fled in a minivan, which they ditched 20 blocks away. No word on how much they got away with, by the way.
And also, it is St. Patrick's Day, and people across the country are celebrating in many different ways. In Wisconsin, the city of New London changed its name to New Dublin -- just temporarily, of course.
And Chicago observed its traditional dyeing of the Chicago River green. That's amazing, isn't it? That freaks me out every year. It looks like a scene from --
BALDWIN: "Wizard of Oz," emerald green.
SANCHEZ: That's right. They do it every single year, by the way, in one of those Irish towns. First lady, Michelle Obama --
BALDWIN: Look at it.
SANCHEZ: She missed Chicago's green, so guess what? They dyed the White House fountain green as well.
Did you wear your green today? I got mine.
BALDWIN: I did.
SANCHEZ: But do you know what's funny? Look at this tweet, all right, let's go ahead and finish "Fotos." Go ahead. Give me the "Fotos" ending. Go ahead, Jeff. Now come out. Come out to this tweet from Tara. She says, "No green tie today, Rick?"
BALDWIN: Uh-oh, can we get a close-up on you?
SANCHEZ: This is green.
BALDWIN: It is green. SANCHEZ: Is there something wrong with Tara's TV?
BALDWIN: Tara, it's green.
SANCHEZ: You got on green?
BALDWIN: I got on green. I don't want to get pinched.
SANCHEZ: Huh?
BALDWIN: I'm not getting pinched today.
SANCHEZ: I just wanted to clear things up for Tara.
BALDWIN: It's clear, it's green.
SANCHEZ: Talk about this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS: This is not a sound-bite issue.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: I understand. It's a pretty straightforward question.
PETRAEUS: And we respect it --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It's not every day that you see John McCain getting short with the general, especially when that general is General Petraeus. This is an interesting exchange between two very respected leaders. That's ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC DEVLIN, PROSECUTOR: He sent him a message telling him that he was HIV positive, something to the effect of I have HIV, you probably do, too. Have a nice life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Is it possible to be charged with using your own body as a deadly weapon? Well, apparently it is, if you happen to have HIV. That story's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Do we still have that shot, by the way, of --
BALDWIN: Nancy Pelosi?
SANCHEZ: -- the Nancy Pelosi podium? That's it right there, right? Good. All right, as soon as Nancy Pelosi comes to this podium to deliver her address, we are going to cut to it. In the meantime, it's time for the Brooke block, and Brooke Baldwin joins me live. What's on your list?
BALDWIN: The first story out of Texas, this is something I didn't realize could happen. Did you hear about this? Out of Houston there's this man, he has been charged with aggravated assault of a 15- year-old boy with a deadly weapon. The weapon is his body, because 49-year-old Kevin Lee Sellars is HIV positive.
Prosecutors have charged him with having sex with a 15-year-old who he found on MySpace, and the prosecutors says after the relationship went downhill, I say "relationship" loosely, we're talking about ten days, Sellars sent the teen a little note.
DEVLIN: After the relationship ended and ended poorly, the defendant sent him a message telling him that he was HIV positive, something to the effect of "I have HIV, you probably do, too. Have a nice life."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Yikes, imagine being on the receiving end of that. Prosecutors do not know if the teen is infected yet, but Sellars is in jail.
SANCHEZ: The key thing that we may have -- that may deserve the most commentary here is he was 15 years old.
BALDWIN: Right. And that's the whole other piece of it, absolutely. He's a minor, so this guy's in big trouble because of that, number one. And number two, the fact that he's HIV positive and using his body in this way, knowingly using his body in this way.
SANCHEZ: That's the worst.
BALDWIN: Bad news.
SANCHEZ: Really, that's the worst part of it. If I can use the term "sick," that's the sickest part. What else you got?
BALDWIN: OK, so you are parents, you have a couple of kids. Let's say you have a little girl, a baby daughter. What do you dress them up in? maybe a one-sie, a bit --
SANCHEZ: Mine? Baseball pants.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: Maybe baseball pants if it's a boy. But if it's a girl, maybe a frilly dress, but probably not this. Take a look at these pictures, we were kind of gasping as we were looking at these. These were pint-sized outfits -- Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Mao Zedong, Augusto Pinochet.
SANCHEZ: What's the point?
BALDWIN: The point is a woman did it with her little girl a decade ago. She's an artist, so she says this is art, part of a photo essay that's out right now, and she says it's all about the nature of evil.
She's a Norwegian-Danish artist and she took the pictures. And in fact, you know, in reading about this, her husband was OK with it until he saw the picture of baby Adolf Hitler, and he said, honey, I don't know about this.
She's calling the exhibit "Potency." She says it's not a deliberate provocation. "It calls for reflection. You need to contemplate them and ponder where this evil comes from. She says it's art. What do you think?
SANCHEZ: I think that's too weird.
BALDWIN: Too weird? Yes. OK.
SANCHEZ: I mean, it's not something I can fathom anyone doing --
BALDWIN: Seeing a little child as a dictator.
SANCHEZ: -- but I respect everyone's right to view art in any way.
BALDWIN: It is subjective.
SANCHEZ: Number three?
BALDWIN: Number three, Tiger Woods, big news yesterday, coming back, coming back next month to the Masters. We heard from Arnold Palmer today. He said he's disappointed that Tiger Woods is returning to the game at the masters but not at his invitational next week. But Palmer says he understands and he talked to Tiger just yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNOLD PALMER: I talked to him a couple times, and he said he was sorry. He just didn't feel like he could produce the kind of golf he needs to produce to play here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: He also said that, you know, he knows Augusta is better equipped to handle the big pub, the publicity that will follow Mr. Woods.
SANCHEZ: That's a good question, though. It's an interesting point that you just raised. Will some paparazzi --
BALDWIN: Some?
SANCHEZ: -- get into Augusta and push the envelope and --
BALDWIN: Make a big ballyhoo?
SANCHEZ: Yes. I know they're very careful.
BALDWIN: Not always.
SANCHEZ: It's a public event.
BALDWIN: Absolutely. I imagine security this year will be tight.
SANCHEZ: Even -- yes, even less public, right?
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: All right, thanks so much, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: We appreciate it.
Look, we're still waiting on Nancy Pelosi to come out. When she does, we'll cut to it.
In the meantime, take a look at this --
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that they are not programming it to collect. That's what we know. And it makes us very, very suspicious.
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SANCHEZ: Does Toyota want its cars to record with, like, well, it's not exactly a black box, but a so-called black box for the sake of understanding? What's going on with its brake and acceleration systems? That's ahead on "The List."
Also, "throw the Wall Street crooks in prison," -- the senator who is saying that is going to be joining me live to answer our questions about how far he really wants to take his thing, I mean, this thing. Is he serious when he says "throw them in prison"? This is "RICK'S LIST." We'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: Welcome back. We promised we'd go live to Nancy Pelosi as soon as she started talking, and let's do that now.
REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA) HOUSE SPEAKER: -- talk about putting Americans to work. Not just back to work, but many more jobs to bring other people into the workforce with hire, the hire incentives to restore employment act.
With $15 billions of investments, it unleashes tens of billions dollars more in infrastructure, to build the infrastructure for the future in terms of how it unleashes funds from the highway trust fund, and it provides support for small businesses with the credits and accelerated write-offs.
It will -- it will produce -- this bill here will produce 300,000 jobs. Now, this is part of a series of jobs that -- that will -- jobs bills. We have this one. We will talk some more about other legislation that is coming up. In recent months we've seen the results of the Recovery Act, and I think it's really important to note, again, a couple of facts. In the last quarter of 2008, the last full quarter of the Bush administration, the GDP was a minus 6.4, GDP growth minus 6.4 percent.
In that same equivalent quarter in 2009, the GDP grew by 5.9 percent. It shrank by 6.4 percent the year before, it grew by 5.9 percent the following year, a swing over 12 percent thanks to the leadership of Barack Obama and the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act, the fastest growth in a very long time.
Jobs in January of '09, the last month of the Bush administration, the job loss was 779,000 jobs. Closing this year, January, 2010, 20,000 jobs. We don't want to lose any jobs. We want to be on the plus side. But the fact is the difference is over three-quarters-of-a- million jobs. Thank you, President Obama, and the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act.
Today as I left my office, I noticed the stock market was over 10,700. When we were debating this bill it was in the mid -- 6,500, so an increase over 4,000 points in the stock market.
We know that the bill has created -- the legislation has created or saved over 2 million jobs, and that continues as the investments continue to be made. What we're doing here today is a step in more job creation, building on that success, and I'm very proud to be enrolling it here today.
I had hoped that -- perhaps Mr. Oberstar will join us yet, but I do want to say how grateful we are all for his tremendous leadership, his persistence in pushing investments in our infrastructure, in our country. It's important infrastructure in transportation, important to commerce. It's important to quality of life, the air we breathe and the water we drink.
So it is -- it's an essential bill. Our infrastructure deficit is a great one. It takes some strong steps in addressing it.
Now, I want to yield to distinguished majority leader. This bill was something we had to go back and forth with, because it did not -- it wasn't as fiscally sound as we need it to be in the House. The speaker -- the leader will speak to those points, but I thank him for making this day possible with his leadership in bringing the parties together in the House and the Senate. Mr. Hoyer?
REP. STENY HOYER, (D) MARYLAND, HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: Well, thank you very much, madam speaker. I'm pleased to join the speaker. One thing we want to say today --
SANCHEZ: And there you have it. You know, it's interesting to listen to Nancy Pelosi's figures there. It certainly puts in perspective where we were to where we are.
Let's just restate what she said. And, look, total transparency here -- I'm not an economist, nor do I have these figures at the top of my head, so I can't vouch for their authenticity. But I can tell you that she just said that in January of '09, there were 779,000 jobs lost. She mentioned George W. Bush's name and said that's when he left office. She now is saying that in January of 2010, there were only 27,000 jobs lost, and she used that as a reflection of how the economy is gradually getting better.
She went on to say that the GDP has grown by 12 percent. And, of course, she mentioned this as a partisan under the leadership of President Barack Obama.
You know, what's interesting here is, obviously she's throwing out some figures that have a lot to do with what the Democrats need to do to counter the argument that somehow the economy's not working and it's the president's fault. It's what would you expect the Democrats to do. But those are solid and important numbers that probably should be taken into consideration by all Americans.
Here's what we're going to do. We're going to monitor the situation as it goes. And if we hear -- the news conference is still going on -- if we hear that she's going to start addressing issues about health care reform or the vote or the vote tally, we'll take that up with you right away and either turn it around or take it live.
Meanwhile, take a look at this.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, yes, the devil tempts everyone. He tempts everyone in every environment. In particular he tempts those on top.
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SANCHEZ: That is a chief exorcist at the Vatican. His name the Father Gabriel Amorth. He has declared that the recent sex scandal confirms that the devil is at work in the Vatican. It is an interesting report we have put together for you on this whole sex abuse scandal that's hitting the international scene more than the United States these days. And we'll have it for you.
Also, by the way, just a quick programming note here. If you want to join us on the show, and you know Mondays we allow people to join us here on the set, and many of you have responded. The number is 877- 4CNN-tour. Call that number. I'd love to have you here with me.
We'll be right back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
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HOYER: -- does not increase the deficit and, in fact, decreases the deficit over time. As I quoted to you a "Wall Street Journal" article, while the CBO originally scored $130 billion decrease in the deficit, "The Wall Street Journal" article believes that we'll reduce the deficit by $600 billion in the first ten years and more than that in the second ten years.
But the answer to your question is we're waiting to get a real confidence level on the jobs.
Before we go further, let me yield to the individual who was so responsible in the Recovery Act -- as a matter of fact, let me yield to the speaker because I know she wants to say something about it.
PELOSI: I join Steny in acknowledging the tremendous leadership of Mr. Oberstar. Anytime we have legislation to create jobs, his imprint is on it. His leadership is clear. In this legislation, we want more, and we will have more. But what we have would not be possible -- would not have been possible without his tremendous leadership.
He's a man born for this job. He understands job creation. He understands the needs of our country in terms of its greatness in terms of infrastructure and what that means to the commerce, to the health, to the well-being, quality of life of the American people.
And he is a great legislator. He knows how to translate a need into a law into better public policy for the American people. So we're very honored to take any opportunity to acknowledge that leadership -- the leadership of Chairman Jim Oberstar. Thank you, Jim.
REP. JIM OBERSTAR, (D) MINNESOTA: Thank you. I'm sorry. I was delayed getting here. We were passing the unfinished business of the hire act, correcting the --
SANCHEZ: Well, they seem to be moving away from the health care bill now. But I think what you may have heard there, and I think I heard it correctly as well, but let me just underscore what we heard from Steny Hoyer a little while ago.
He was asked by reporters whether the weekend was a possibility, whether we might have some news, some vote on the health care bill by Saturday or Sunday. And interestingly enough, he did acknowledge, and this is the news hit here, that Saturday or Sunday is a possibility, that Saturday or Sunday is a possibility for the House to vote on the health care bill.
When he was asked specifically, as you heard, whether or not he could relieve -- release, pardon me, some of the numbers as to whether they were close or have enough votes, he said no, we won't get into that, because we don't know what they are yet. I think he said we'll release the numbers when we have the number.
That's where we are, folks. Obviously we're drilling down on it. We've got some of the best folks in Washington asking a lot of questions around Congress right now. As we get that information, we are going to be sharing it with you.
Let's get a break in, and then we'll be getting ready to start the next hour.
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