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Rick's List
President Obama Meets With Israeli Prime Minister; President Obama Signs Health Care Bill
Aired March 23, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here's what is making the LIST today --
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Jerusalem is not a settlement. It's our capital.
SANCHEZ: Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Obama, an historic meeting. How much of it is personal?
Speaking of historic, you will see the signing ceremony, atmospherics and all --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, after all the votes everybody tallied, health insurance reform becomes law in the United States of America.
SANCHEZ: -- as health care reform becomes law. Is health care reform analogous to the passage of the Civil Rights Act?
And is the doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death hiding evidence? New information.
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Here's what is at the very top of the LIST. The health care reform bill is now the law of the land. And I'm here to take you through it, as it happened.
The day started on Capitol Hill, where dozens of Democratic members of Congress got on buses to go to the White House. That's right, buses. That is John Lewis. He's the civil rights icon from Georgia getting on board. This weekend, he had been taunted by protesters on Capitol Hill, even called the N-word at one point.
But there were no protests today as the buses headed up Pennsylvania Avenue under police escort. Now, once at the White House, they went to the East Room, where 280 seats were arranged in a horseshoe shape. And it was obvious that this was no normal event. congressional members seemed like tourists today, with cell phone cameras and flashes visible through the room, as everyone documented the day as it went along.
This is the same room, by the way, where President Obama and Vice President Biden appeared after the vote actually passed late Sunday night. It was a low-key event then, not so today.
Obama and Biden were ready to speak, but instead they let the crowd have their way and enjoy the moment. Here, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you, all.
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: Thank you all.
Let them celebrate a little bit.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
AUDIENCE: Fired up! Ready to Go! Fired up! Ready to go! Fired up! Ready to go!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It was like a pep rally at times. The excitement may have gotten, though, to Vice President Biden. Even after he introduced the president of the United States, in typical Biden fashion, he blurted out his inner voice, before an open microphone. Oops. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States of America, Barack Obama.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: This is a big (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal.
(LAUGHTER)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you, everybody. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Well, guess what? There's a reason for that little sound that we had to put in there, that little bleep. The vice president used a word that most of us never use in front of our mothers.
Here. Rog, let's let them watch it again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: This is a big (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Thank you, everybody. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is a big blanking deal. Yes, that was the non-TV- friendly word that the vice president used. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs made light of the moment on Twitter just a little while ago.
He said, "And, yes, Mr. Vice President, you are right" -- stop quote.
The president seemed to make a face when Biden said it and jokingly said, "Thank you, Joe," as he started his remarks, but then things turned much more serious.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Today, after over a year of debate, today, after all the votes have been tallied, health insurance reform becomes law in the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I should tell you that usually the audience at the White House doesn't respond when the president talks. They listen. But members of Congress couldn't seem to help themselves when Mr. Obama talked about the pressure that many were under on this vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: It's also a testament to the historic leadership and uncommon courage of the men and women of the United States Congress, who've taken their lumps during this difficult debate.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we did.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're still standing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Did you hear that at the end? He said, "And we're still standing."
But Obama's remarks turned more personal, as he then started to discuss stories of people who were affected by health care problems, including -- and this is when the president got very personal. He talked about his late mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I'm signing this reform bill into law on behalf of my mother, who argued with insurance companies even as she battled cancer in her final days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And there was another emotional moment. With Ted Kennedy's widow, son, and niece all in the room, Mr. Obama recalled the senator's fight for this issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I remember seeing Ted walk through that door in a summit in this room a year ago, one of his last public appearances. And it was hard for him to make it. But he was confident that we would do the right thing. Our presence here today is remarkable and improbable. With all the punditry, all of the lobbying, all the game playing that passes for governing in Washington, it's been easy at times to doubt our ability to do such a big thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And then came the bill signing itself. President Obama was surrounded by Kennedy's widow, Vicki, key lawmakers, and the people whose stories he told while he was trying to sell the plan. The president used 20 pens to sign the bill, a tradition, so the pens can be given out afterward, but one that makes the simple signing of a president's name a little tougher.
Watch this with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: This is going to take a little while.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes!
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I have got to use every pen, so, it's going to take a really long time.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: I didn't practice.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It was an emotional conclusion to an historic event. Mr. Obama embraced Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who clutched her pen. Next was Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, now in charge of that version of the bill. You see there as he reached out to all those who were around him. There's the meeting with Harry Reid.
Set your DVR, folks, because we're going to show a part of this again in the end of our last hour. And you see there more hugs, finally, for Vicki Kennedy, and now on to the Senate.
Why do we need to count every vote in the census? Why do we need to count everybody? Why not just do a random sample of Americans? That's a question that's been asked in a lot of circles. I'm going to ask it of the head of the entire census when he joins me here live.
Also, health care reform is now the law of the land, as I just showed you. Now what? Doesn't it need to still go to the Senate, and what could possibly happen there? Brianna Keilar -- Brianna Keilar is going to join me in just a little bit, as is David Gergen. They're both standing by.
Stay there, folks. The LIST scrolls on for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Our political list takes us back now to Capitol Hill. You think the health care fight is over? Well, not quite. Roger, shall we show them a live picture of what's going on there in the Senate? You're looking at the Senate floor, folks. That's live.
They have just gone in to session, and they are trying to take up the changes that the House has made to the health care bill. These are the tweaks that we have been talking about. That's the House on the right, and that's the Senate on the left. Republicans are facing an uphill battle, though, if they're still trying to fight this plan.
We're joined now by CNN's congressional correspondent, Brianna Keilar, as well as CNN senior political analyst David Gergen.
My thanks to both of you for being with us.
Brianna, let me start with you.
Republicans say that they're not giving up. In fact, here's Congressman Mike Pence a little while ago. Let's listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: This fight is not over. And House Republicans are determined to take our case against this government takeover of health care to the floor of the Congress and to the American people for the balance of this Congress. And if we find ourselves in a new, renewed Republican majority in 2011, we will work in every way to repeal this legislation and start over.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You know, depending on which Republican you listen to, we're talking about protests, we're talking about blocks, we're talking about legal maneuvers, and we're talking about repeals.
Make this make sense to us, Brianna. What can they actually do?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think this idea of repealing the law, which is something that, when I was out at the protests, the protests that a lot of Tea Party folks were at on Saturday and Sunday, this is what a lot of them said: We're going to get the law repealed.
I think it's seen, though, by experts as pretty unlikely. What it seems Republicans do have at their disposal at this point in time is to really gum up the works a little bit, slow things down. In the Senate, they're obviously going to be proposing changes in a couple different ways. They're going to put some votes out there that are tough for Democrat to take, votes on Medicaid cuts and votes on tax hikes, and try to get Democrats to go along with them to change the bill.
And they're also going to rule that -- you know, they're also going to object to some of the stuff in this bill and say, you know what, it shouldn't even be going through this reconciliation processed. If they're successful in finding those changes, which Democrats admit they may be, then it kind of delays everything, because it has to go back to the House for another vote.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KEILAR: But, right now, that's really it, Rick.
SANCHEZ: David, you have been watching these kinds battles for a long time. It seems like the Republicans are now in a situation where before they were trying to block this from happening. Now it has happened and they have to go to the American people and say we're going to get rid of it. It seems that's like a tougher political row to hoe, isn't it?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It is.
There are actually three different roads they are trying to go down, Rick. The first, as Brianna just said, is the legislative route to try to block this. It's very, very unlikely to succeed.
SANCHEZ: Right.
GERGEN: The second is the legal route. And 13 state attorney generals have filed suit today to declare this unconstitutional, the mandate upon individuals, for example, to be forced to -- by the federal government to do something. They say that is unprecedented.
Most legal scholars say that they have got an outside shot at this, but they don't have a heavy -- it's not a heavily -- it doesn't way heavily in their favor. And the third, and perhaps what we are really going to see is they will take their fight back to the American people, because they -- of course, they do have -- as a CNN poll showed just yesterday, this bill does not have majority support.
There are a lot of people that don't like it because it's too much of a government takeover. There's some people who don't like it because it didn't go far enough.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But let me stop you real quick, David. Let's be correct about this.
GERGEN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: The CNN poll was taken before this thing passed, so that's, like, old news, isn't it? That's not fair to even talk about that poll yet.
(CROSSTALK)
GERGEN: Well, it's my understanding of that poll, it was taken Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights.
SANCHEZ: Before the passing of that bill.
(CROSSTALK)
GERGEN: No, no, no. The vote passed Sunday.
SANCHEZ: Right.
GERGEN: It passed. We knew Sunday afternoon it was definitely going to pass, and it looked very likely to pass beforehand.
Should we be looking for new polls? Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Right. GERGEN: Will there be fresh things coming up? I think we should be looking for it. Bill Clinton had predicted, for example, that Barack Obama will go up 10 points in the polls once he actually gets this passed.
And we will have to wait and see. I think he will get a bounce. I don't think it will be 10, but I think he will get a bounce. And a lot of those people -- you remember the 59 percent in the CNN poll who said they didn't like this bill, this one taken over the weekend, you know, there was a chunk of them who said they didn't like it because it wasn't liberal enough. It didn't have enough of a public option in it.
SANCHEZ: Right, right.
GERGEN: So, those people are likely to sway -- they're likely to swing behind this now and say, well, on balance, it's better than what we had.
So, I would think that the numbers are going to go up, but it's going to be extremely interesting where they settle out.
SANCHEZ: The pragmatics of this is, though, Brianna, that even if the Republicans wanted to get rid of this bill, concretely, they really can't. Let's even suppose -- let's give them the House of Representatives. Let's go ahead and get to the midterms, Republicans win the House. Heck, let's give them the Senate. Republicans win the Senate.
They still are going to have a Democratic president who will veto whatever repeal they try to enact, right? Or do I not get this?
KEILAR: Well, and I don't know the exact process of this, but also you would have to say would they have a filibuster-proof majority if they were going to take that route obviously, right? Would they have 60 votes? To go right now from 41 to 60, I don't think there's really any prognosticator out there who is saying that they are think are going to do that in the Senate.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KEILAR: So, I actually was reading a column today in Politico by one of my colleagues, Mike Allen, and I just have to repeat what he said. He called it a talk radio pipe dream, where he said people were saying this, and so it's really seen as sort of very unlikely.
SANCHEZ: Even when you ask them -- I had Phil Gingrey -- I had Phil Gingrey on here yesterday. He's a Republican, Southern Republican, I should say. And I said, Phil, how are you -- or, Mr. Congressman, how are you going to go to someone who has got a 22- or a 23-year-old kid who finally gets insurance for them because they haven't got a job out of college yet, and you are going to say, hey, I'm taking that away from you?
He says to me, well, no, there are parts of this we like, and we won't take those parts out, only the parts that we don't like. So it's an interesting situation for these guys. Politically, though, how do they play this now, though, David? Can you win by telling people you might possibly want to take something away from them once they have experienced the breadth of it?
GERGEN: Look, I think, Rick, you have got a very good point. Once the 23-year-old gets a chance to stay on parents' insurance, as they will under this bill, and they will do that quickly, you're not going to take that away from them.
What you can do is run out of this a campaign in the fall to say, we want to do the following four things to replace major elements of this bill, and, in effect, do what Newt Gingrich did do back in 1993- '94 and win a new mandate to come in and change things. And that's what he did when he won the Congress.
We still had a Democratic president, but they got a lot of that mandate done. Now, how do they do it with Barack Obama? If the Republicans were to win the House, and that's a big, big hill to climb -- right now, you know, the Democrats are quite confident they will keep the House, but if the Republicans were to win the House, they still have Barack Obama there to veto things.
So, what do you do? You do have in the House of Representatives the power of the purse. You could not fund aspects of this. In other words, you could prevent things from getting started that they still don't like. I think that people who get benefits this year are probably going to be very safe.
But there are a lot of things in here about new taxes, about Medicare cuts, and mandates that you could stop if you -- with the power of the purse and with other kind of -- you know, there's a lot of mischief you can do if you have control of the House and the Senate.
So, I don't think they can repeal it unless they have a president and a majority. And they are a long, long way from there, of course.
(CROSSTALK)
GERGEN: But they could gum it up.
SANCHEZ: We're down to about 10 seconds, but close us out, Brianna, if you would.
KEILAR: I was going to say, and to that point, some of these protesters I spoke with, one of their rallying cries was, we will remember in November.
So, now it's a question of, is there vocal enough opposition from them and fervor from them and how much do Democrats gain from this in the short term, even if this is considered a legislative victory for them?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You guys are great. Thanks so much, Brianna Keilar, David Gergen. My thanks to both of you.
GERGEN: Thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Today, after almost a century of trying, health insurance reform becomes law in the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And in case you missed it is, we're going to replay you the signing ceremony, complete with the vice president's comment that he wishes he could somehow take back -- again.
Also, how are Republicans reacting to the signing? That is next, because we have a list that we monitor, and we will share after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I promised you that I would be bringing you the reaction from the Republicans after the signing ceremony. Some of them were not happy with it, as might be expected, but there's a problem.
Robert, show them that computer over here. Just to show you that things happen., you see what's going on there, folks? It's blank. We just lost one of our monitors, one of our plasmas that we use to share information with you.
So, I guarantee you the signal will be coming back in just a little bit. That's off the computer, by the way, as I was just reminded by Roger. So, instead of doing that now, we will do it in the next block.
And now I want to tell you who is at the very top of the list of the most intriguing person in the news today.
This guy's going to turn a lot of heads in American military circles starting today. He's a commissioned officer in the United States Army, but he's -- it's how he got through basic training that makes him the most intriguing. His religion prohibits him from shaving his beard or cutting his hair or being seen without a certain piece of religious clothing.
The Army said, shave or get out. He asked for an exception, so he could serve in the armed forces and stay true to his faith. Get this. The Army said, OK. He's out of boot camp, and says this -- quote -- "I am very thankful to the base command, Army leadership, and my fellow soldiers. I look forward to continuing to serve my country."
Here's the issue. Show it. He's an observant Sikh and the only member of the United States military allowed to wear a beard, long hair, and a turban. Captain Tejdeep Singh Rattan, Army dentist, and definitely today one of the most intriguing people in the news.
Why does every American need to be counted? I mean, why can't they do a random sample for the census instead? That's ahead, as I take this issue up with the head of the U.S. Census.
Also, Republican reaction to the health care bill signing is next, if we get the computer fixed. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I'm so sorry. I promised you I would have Rick's List ready to go, and it looks like we're close. I see a lot of movement over here, right? It's back and forth. It looks like we almost have it up, but it's still not up. I apologize for that. I mean, it's not like it's our fault. It's what you call a technical difficulty.
So, instead of that, during this block, I will give you one of your favorite blocks, the one that makes America dance. Stand by for "Fotos."
This is Salem, New Hampshire. And that's the situation we're watching for you there, as a corpulent man hoists himself on to a jewelry counter. First surprise, the glass holds up under his enormity. Second surprise, this guy allegedly swipes a diamond ring with two people right next to him. Then he wiggles back to his feet with no one noticing. Size matters, and so does agility.
Also, Detroit, a fire truck responding to one crash causes yet another crash! That's right. The police car on the track backs off in time. No such luck for the fire truck. The Chicago-bound Amtrak train slams into it, leaving twisted metal in its wake. The rig was mangled, a $600,000 loss. As we watch it just one more time, I should tell you that we're showing it to you twice because no one was killed. Ah. Boom.
OK, let's go to Dallas, Texas, you say. Watch. OK, then do it. The trains and the trucks, now automobiles. For more irony here, it's an officer chasing a speeder, slams into a third car, and bam. That's right. He apparently clips the back of the end -- back end of this car and plows headlong into the woods. Quite a bumpy ride. The officer and motorist were banged up, we're told, and both were taken to the hospital.
You can all stop dancing now.
These are Mexican police officials. They are digging up mass graves from drug-related violence. Yes, it's happened again. We will take you to the border.
Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, Janet Napolitano all heading to Mexico to discuss that growing problem and what can be done about it. We're all over that story. Full coverage.
And, by the way, if you want to come here and join us from time to time and be a part of this show, right here in the studio audience, I say bring it. The number is 1-877-4CNN-TOUR. Call that, and we will hang.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Yes, we have -- Brooke, we have fixed the computer.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes!
SANCHEZ: Isn't that wonderful? Man, we're ready to go. Thanks for getting in there and turning --
BALDWIN: Hey, my presence is just magic.
SANCHEZ: Yes, you done good, kid.
All right, time to check RICK'S LIST. Big trending topic today on Twitter, of course, health care reform: the signing. We checked our list of Democrats and Republicans right around the time the president signed it to make it law, one side marked the historic occasion. The other side -- not so much.
Guess which side of the aisle these tweets came from? Ready, let's do it.
"Just watch president sign health care into law, a historic moment a century in the making." That was from Mark Udall, a Democrat from Colorado.
This from fellow Senator Arlen Specter, "At long last, health care reform is law. Well done, Mr. President."
From Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, some inside information, "For signing ceremony, the president wore blue Tedstrong bracelet similar to yellow ones by Lance Armstrong given to him by Vicki Kennedy." There you go. You didn't know that unless you watched this show, right?
And now for tweets from the Republicans. From Representative Tom Price of Georgia, "The battle for reforms that empower patients, families, and doctors is not over. It is only beginning."
This Thomas Jefferson quote from Representative Lynn Jenkins of Kansas: "The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases."
And this closing remark from Meghan McCain -- yes, that Meghan McCain: "Ughhh, I can't even watch this bill being signed."
There you have it.
(MUSIC)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, HOST, "JOHN KING, USA": Describes this, 200 --
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Where in the world is "JOHN KING, USA"? John King will tell you himself in just a few. He's on our list today, and he's going to be joining us on the show.
And then, he may have been second man to walk on the moon, but he's the first on the dance floor. Go, Buzz, go. Where's Buzz? I want to see pictures of Buzz Aldrin dancing. This is the funniest thing anyone has ever seen in ages. Stay there.
Brooke, are you bringing us back?
BALDWIN: I'm bringing it.
SANCHEZ: Good, bring it, baby. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back.
The most adorable news woman in all of CNN is over here to my right, and I get -- I get nervous when I'm around you.
BALDWIN: I know. I'm so intimidating.
SANCHEZ: You're that beautiful.
All right, this is called the "Brooke Block," for Brooke Baldwin. She brings her own list to the game. And she's ready to spill, spill.
BALDWIN: OK. Spill number one on my list, we're talking about this new urgency, new momentum really for this high-level U.S. dignitaries to meet their counterparts in Mexico today to really just ratchet up the efforts for fighting drug trafficking. Let me -- really, a big, big list. Here they are: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, Defense Secretary Robert Gates, and Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral, Mike Mullen. So, they're all in Mexico City to meet Mexican officials, their counterparts, President Felipe Calderon, Foreign Secretary Patricia Espinosa.
And you've seen the headlines, folks. I mean, just the couple here. The weeks of violence in Juarez, murders are on track to eclipse the record set last year. You were talking there of mass grave that was discovered. Nine people --
SANCHEZ: That's there, right?
BALDWIN: That was it.
They found something like 100 people over the past 14 years.
SANCHEZ: Good Lord.
BALDWIN: And two weeks ago, a pregnant Mexican consulate worker and her husband gunned along the border. So, obviously, now, they are saying it is time to talk, possibly new strategy on both sides of the border.
And keep in mind, there was a Merida Initiative started in 2008 under President Bush, it's in its third year. So, back in 2008, the U.S. promised $1.3 billion in aid. So far, they have seen $128 million delivered.
So, leaders, there they are today -- new pictures coming in from Mexico City talking about ways to refocus and talking strategy.
SANCHEZ: I'm going to help you a little bit with your lacka, lacka, lacka. Are you ready? It's Merida, not Mereda (ph).
BALDWIN: Merida.
SANCHEZ: Merida. A great place, by the way.
BALDWIN: Merida.
SANCHEZ: Merida: A beautiful place to visit. It's where they had that.
BALDWIN: Lacka, lacka.
SANCHEZ: All right. What do you got? What's number two?
BALDWIN: Number two, remember how you sent me to Boston a couple of weeks ago to dig a little bit on that Alabama professor --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: -- Amy Bishop. So, we're seeing her for the first time since that shooting back in February. This is the first time she is in court in Huntsville, Alabama, today.
You remember this woman. She opened fire at that biology faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, Huntsville -- shot six colleagues, killing three.
Here she is as she was getting in that police car.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma'am, do you have anything to say? Do you know about what happened?
AMY BISHOP, MURDER SUSPECT: It didn't happen. There's no way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the people who died?
BISHOP: There's no way. They're still alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Yes, do you remember that? SANCHEZ: Oh, God.
BALDWIN: That was right after everything happened. So, we saw her today, and we have new pictures here, too. She was wearing this red jumpsuit. There she is. Apparently, she didn't say a word but you can hear --
SANCHEZ: Is she's shackled?
BALDWIN: She's shackled. And, in fact, I'll shut up. You can hear kind some of the clinking, right?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: Some of the clicking as she's being walked in. The judge determined there was enough evidence in the case to send this to the grand jury. Defense tends to argue insanity. But keep in mind, under Alabama law, she could face the death penalty if she is convicted of capital murder.
SANCHEZ: All right. Now, the best story of the day. I'm ready. My wife was all excited. I don't watch --
BALDWIN: Are you ready?
SANCHEZ: I don't watch this show. But my wife and kids love this show.
BALDWIN: Oh, my gosh. People love this show.
ABC's "Dancing with the Stars" -- can you shake your bon-bon, Rick Sanchez?
SANCHEZ: I sure can -- with the best of them, baby.
BALDWIN: Well, so can Buzz Aldrin, cha-cha-cha, baby. Eighty years old, look at him. Shaking it. Doing the cha-cha.
SANCHEZ: Go Buzz. Go Buzz. Go Buzz.
BALDWIN: Second man to walk on the moon and now, he's shaking it on the dance floor. He told CNN he's able to stay fit because he's run three airports to catch flights, he's climbing stairs in the 23- floor Beverly Hills condo where he lives with his wife, who keeps him in check, keeps him healthy. And he's also said the moon wouldn't be a good place to cha-cha, the whole gravity -- lack of gravity thing.
SANCHEZ: All right. All right. Now, let's stop trying to be so nice. He's a horrible dancer.
BALDWIN: He's --
SANCHEZ: A horrible dancer.
BALDWIN: She's making him look good.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What is that?
BALDWIN: I give him kudos for shaking it.
SANCHEZ: I do, too. How can you not love this man? He's an American icon. He's a hero. But he can't dance.
BALDWIN: You're going to give him the boot?
SANCHEZ: What did the judges give him? Like the worst score ever?
BALDWIN: I don't know if he'll make it.
SANCHEZ: I -- yes.
BALDWIN: I don't know if he'll make it. But Rick Sanchez, let's give him props for going on. I'd like to see you on "Dancing with the Stars."
SANCHEZ: Stop it. I know you have a crush on me. All right.
BALDWIN: Bye-bye.
SANCHEZ: Next.
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SANCHEZ: Protests for immigration reform, you saw it all weekend. How should they be counted? Census Director Robert Groves is going to be joining me right here, next.
And that's the question I'm going to be asking. Why not do a random sample? Why count every head?
And let me remind you that we're going to have a replay of the signing ceremony that took place in the White House today. Atmospherics and all.
Stay there. THE LIST scrolls on with a little diddy a little later.
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SANCHEZ: Robert Groves is in charge of one of the most important lists in the entire country. And on a show that calls itself THE LIST as in RICK'S LIST, he's a guest that we definitely have been wanting to have on, and here he is.
Everyone's talking about this, Mr. Groves, today, the census thing. In fact, let's go to our regular tweets here and these are what folks who are talking us and they're answering the question that I was asking, and "Because, Rick, censuses have been done for thousands of years. Besides, don't you think it's important to know how many of us there are?" Well, yes, I do think it's important to know how many of us there are. But I'm still wondering whether we have to use such an old- fangled system as individually counting each specific person.
Robert, the answer is --
ROBERT GROVES, DIRECTOR, U.S. CENSUS BUREAU: The answer is, since 1790, we've done the same thing. So, in Article I, Section II of the Constitution, way up there at the front, the Founding Fathers said that we will do an actual enumeration of all the people in the country, to reapportion the House of Representatives every 10 years. We've done it every 10 years since then.
This is the 23rd census the country has done.
SANCHEZ: But why not -- we've got computers today. We've got all ways of doing random samples where you can literally interview 100 and tell what 1,000 are saying. Why don't we do that? We do it in television ratings and we know how well that works.
GROVES: What we're doing -- the Census Bureau is a nonpartisan statistical agency, independent of enforcement agencies. What we do is follow the law. The law specifies, and has done so since 1790, that we'll actually go out and count everyone in the population. By the way, since 1790, we've counted everyone, citizens and noncitizens. We've done it the same way for 23 times.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting. You said noncitizens, because that's become more controversial of late. And as I understand it is, the last census supposedly missed immigrants and many urban minorities.
First of all, why did they miss so many people?
GROVES: It's a challenge. It's -- any country that has new folks coming to its shores faces the issue of how to communicate how the census works in that country.
We have a -- our Founding Fathers were pretty smart, I think. They knew that to have a good census, we needed to count everyone. And actually, they made it mandatory early in 1790. There was a $20 fine.
But part of the challenge of a nation of immigrants is to tell those new to the country how the census works. And for the reason that we knew we were going to be a nation of immigrants, we have really strong confidentiality laws that protect the data. So, I can -- I can say, quite proudly, we all can -- that when you answer the census, that your answers stay at the Census Bureau and don't go anywhere else.
SANCHEZ: Well, it's interesting because I'm looking here at one of your census forms. Everybody seems to be getting them these days, and you're going to be telling people that they --
GROVES: I hope so. SANCHEZ: No, it seems that they are.
By the way, what happens if you don't fill it out? What happens if you say, "No, I'm not going to fill this thing out"?
GROVES: It's a great question, especially this year, when we're worried about federal deficits and federal spending. If you don't spent -- if you don't fill it out and mail it back, since under law we have to count everyone, we have to hire someone to go out and visit you in person and do an interview. If you mail it back, it costs about 42 cents of taxpayer money. If you don't mail it back, it's going to cost us about $60 to visit your house.
SANCHEZ: Oh.
GROVES: So, if you care about the federal deficit, fill it out, mail it back.
SANCHEZ: It will make it cheaper for all of us.
Final question, I don't see anything on here that says Hispanic or Asian immigrant, that's undocumented. In fact, there's nothing here asking people whether they're legally in the country or not. Why did you make that decision to go in that direction? Explain that to us.
GROVES: That question actually has not been asked in the census for many years, for many decades. The procedure that is done is that we submit the topics of the census questions to Congress about 2007, 2008, the exact questions. Since citizenship is irrelevant to the uses of the census, we don't have to ask that, and we don't.
SANCHEZ: So, then, we won't really have a good count then, either, I suppose of how many people are here undocumented. But at the same time, if you make them write down that they're undocumented, you're less apt to get them to fill out and turn it in.
All right. I answered that question without having to ask it. So, my thanks to you, Robert, for being on today. We appreciate your time.
GROVES: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Thank you.
GROVES: Fill it out, and mail it back. Please.
SANCHEZ: Yes, we'll try -- we heard you already! Now, we get it. Thank you very much. Just kidding, I kid you.
John King is coming up in a little bit. I'm going to kid him as best I possible can as well. He's got a new show, you know? It's "JOHN KING, USA." Don't forget the comma.
Also, California Congressman Becerra and California Congressman Issa are both going to be joining me in just a little bit. One on the left, one on the right. One for health care reform, one against health care reform. And we'll let them duke it out, so to speak.
Of course, I better be careful, with what we've seen in Congress these days. I kid.
I'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: Guess who's making the list? His name is John King. He has a city named after him. It's called "JOHN KING, USA."
Where in the hell -- where in the hell is "JOHN KING, USA," anyway? I haven't found it on a map.
JOHN KING, HOST, "JOHN KING, USA": In some days, it's by a lake; some days, it's by a river, maybe out by the ocean. Wherever you want it to be, Rick.
SANCHEZ: This is great. And I was listening to you talk about the show the other day. And you say, what you're trying to do is kind of take a step back from the normal screaming that goes on every day and make this a little more casual. How is that going?
KING: We're trying. And, you know, with the health care debate, it makes it difficult. But we think it's important. I have nothing against it, and, in fact, encourage good, feisty, compelling debates like the one you're about to have and like the many you have about health care and other issues.
But you're on the same page. We want to talk about how this affects people out there.
SANCHEZ: Right.
KING: How does it affect people's lives? Will it cost them more money? Will it cost them less money? Will it get them get to their doctor? Will it get them all the care they need?
Let's not just have "because a Democrat is a Democrat and a Republican is a Republican, have the finger pointing, and you're evil, and you're wrong." Let's just actually talk about what's in the bill. Let's fight about it, argue about it, debate it, but make it about the substance and about how it impacts the lives of real people who are struggling right now.
SANCHEZ: Well said. It's not just a game, folks.
Listen to Mitch McConnell. He was talking a little bit earlier. Let's take a look at -- let's take a listen to this. And then, John and I -- you and I talk about it on the back side.
Here it is.
KING: You bet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Most Americans out there aren't celebrating today. They're dumbfounded by the fact that Congress just passed this 2,685-page monstrosity against their wishes on the backs of their children and grandchildren who they know will have to pick up the tab.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is an interesting situation for Republican, isn't it? Because they've really -- they've been very critical of the health care bill, the entire process. And now, they find themselves in a situation where they have to try to block it in the Senate, and then what do they tell their constituents? And how do they use this to win the midterms?
I mean, this is -- what is the situation here for Republicans, as you see it?
KING: Well, there are big policy arguments that then become very hot political arguments. And, look, Rick, let's look at it this way -- even if the Senate Republicans can block the changes, the fixes the House passed, there's still the law of the land. The president signed a law today that is in effect.
So, even if you just focus on that, the challenge between now and the midterm elections, is -- you could see both party challenges very clearly.
The Democrats want to talk about things that will kick in in the near future. That is -- you can't deny somebody coverage because of pre-existing conditions; you can't kick them off when they get a serious illness. Kids can stay on their parents' health care until age 26. All those things will kick in pretty quickly. The Democrats say, when people see tangible benefits, maybe they'll start to like this bill.
The Republicans on the flip side want to say it's going to cost $1 trillion. The government does not have that money. And the government -- and the Republicans are right when they say this. They use overly hyperbolic language sometimes, but the government will have a bigger role in health care. It will have more influence over insurance plans, what they can and cannot do.
So, Republicans want to say cost and government control. Democrats want to say, look, your world's going to get better. We're going to help you fight your insurance company.
And that will be the competing battleground between now and November.
SANCHEZ: There's a quick name I want to throw at you. We're down to about 30 seconds before my producers start yelling at me again. You know what's that's all about.
KING: I sure do. SANCHEZ: Al Frumin. Al Frumin. It's a name that no one has heard of before. But this guy is about to become red hot. Tell them why.
KING: He is the most important person the people of America don't know right now because he's the Senate parliamentarian. When the Republicans say, "You can't put this in the bill, the rules prohibit it," the parliamentarian decides in or out. He's essentially the traffic cop right now in a very, very critical, consequential point of this health care debate.
SANCHEZ: Who knew? I know you did. "JOHN KING, USA" knew. Thanks, John. Appreciate it.
KING: Take care, Rick. Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Seven p.m. Eastern Time today. I look forward to it, my friend. See you then.
All right. Let's talk about the replay of the historic signing of the health care bill. We promised you that whenever there's big news -- I know about this time, many of you guys are just getting home from work and haven't had a chance to see some of this stuff. So, I'm going to replay it so you could see it as it happened. Not just sound bites but the atmospherics as well.
Also, the list you don't want to be on. Who do you think made THE LIST today? I bet you, you can kind of figure it out.
Nonetheless, stick around and we'll take you through it.
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