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Rick's List
President Obama Signs Health Care Reform Into Law; Interview With California Congressman Darrell Issa; Interview With California Congressman Xavier Becerra
Aired March 23, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
A lot of folks are saying, look, this is the biggest achievement so far for the Obama presidency. We're not just going to take you through it. We're going to let you see it, we're going to let you experience it, and we're going to talk to both sides about it, including what the vice president had to say today that he wishes he hadn't said.
Here's the LIST.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what is making the LIST today --
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Jerusalem is not a settlement. It's our capital.
SANCHEZ: Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Obama, an historic meeting. How much of it is personal?
Speaking of historic, you will see the signing ceremony, atmospherics and all --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, after all the votes everybody tallied, health insurance reform becomes law in the United States of America.
SANCHEZ: -- as health care reform becomes law.
Republican Darrell Issa refutes charges his party messed up by not working with the president. Is he right? He joins me live.
Is health care reform analogous to the passage of the Civil Rights Act? Professor Peniel Joseph, an expert on civil rights, joins me live.
And is the doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death hiding evidence? New information.
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hi, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez going into the second hour now.
There's no question the top story of the day is health care reform today became the law of the land. Let me take you through it. This is the official signing today at the White House, with hundreds of legislators asked to go there to see what was going on.
I do believe that we have some of these pictures. Roger, roll them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Today, after over a year of debate, today, after all the votes have been tallied, health insurance reform becomes law in the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: Today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Meanwhile, there was the actual signing. And that's what it looked like. It becomes law, and we have been following exactly what it is that the congressmen have been saying about this.
We have been following tweets. It was an interesting day at the White House, though, because, just prior to the president of the United States being -- having his speech, he was introduced by the vice president of the United States, Joe Biden.
And something interesting happened on the way to that introduction. Joe Biden, off camera, was heard saying a word that you usually don't say in front of your mother, but he said it nonetheless. It wasn't insulting. It wasn't disparaging. He wasn't trying to take it out on anyone.
He was just trying to tell the president just how bleeping important this event was. Unfortunately, the word got out, and now the vice president and the White House has been issuing apologies and making statements about it.
Roger, I think I just heard you in my ear. Did you say we have that tape? We do have that? Let's watch it now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States of America, Barack Obama.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: This is a big (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal.
(LAUGHTER)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you.
Thank you, everybody. Thank you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Let's turn that around one more time. And you can actually hear. Now, when it first came across, we weren't quite sure exactly what the vice president exactly had said. There was a lot of comments about it. Now we understand that we actually have the -- the sound. And that beep you hear that we put in there, that's to take out the vulgar word that most of us try not to use in public. And now neither does the vice president. Here it is again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States of America, Barack Obama.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: This is a big (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: Thank you.
Thank you, everybody. Thank you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is a pretty "bleeping" deal is what he said.
Let me bring in two of my guests now. Xavier Becerra is a Democrat who was heavily involved in this process. In fact, if you stayed up late with Wolf and John King and these fellows the other day and followed this, he was one on -- one of the lawmakers who was introduced afterward who gave a speech standing alongside Nancy Pelosi and the rest from the House.
Also joining us is Republican Darrell Iss -- Issa. There I go again.
You know, I'm sorry, Congressman. It's the Hispanic in me. I see I- S-S-A, and I want to turn it into --
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I bet you I'm not the only one who does that.
REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: Well, sadly, my grandfather got us in this trouble, because his name Dahas Wahabi Issa (ph) when he came from Lebanon.
(LAUGHTER)
ISSA: And he wanted to be Anglicized. So, he became Issa. So, nobody gets it right unless they happen to agree with my grandfather.
(LAUGHTER)
REP. XAVIER BECERRA (D), CALIFORNIA: It's all those immigrants, Rick.
(LAUGHTER)
BECERRA: It's just immigrants. There it is.
SANCHEZ: You guys. It's funny because I read your name a hundred times a day. You're as much in the news as anybody there in Washington. I talk to people about you all the time, and I can't get that Issa out of my head.
So, I apologize. It's Issa. And I will make sure that, throughout this conversation, I get it the right way.
Let me start with you, Congressman Issa.
Former Bush speechwriter David Frum, he's ruffling some Republican feathers. He says that your party would have done better politically and would have served the country better by working on the reform with the Democrats, instead of just saying, no, no, and no. Now, this is Frum. He's a Republican. That's why I ask you about this. What do you make of that?
ISSA: Well, you know, everyone's entitled to an opinion, including former speechwriters. That's why we have Dana Rohrabacher, a speechwriter from the Reagan administration, as a congressman.
But the fact is that there were freestanding bills that we offered, that we tried to put in all along the way. I think, at the end of the day, it's more of a tragedy for the Democrats that 34 Democrats were not included in the process, and they voted no, than it is the question of whether Republicans got in.
You would probably have to get most of those 34 Democrats on board before you would begin getting Republicans, from an ideological standpoint. But I certainly would have loved to have done what the president said at our retreat, cut this thing into pieces that all of us could agree on, particularly when it came to preexisting conditions, portability, some of these important issues that are --
SANCHEZ: Yes. No, I get it.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: -- at least be slightly done.
SANCHEZ: Let me pressure you on this just a little bit, though, because I read what you said to The Huffington Post. And according to The Huffington Post, they're quoting you as saying that we don't need to listen to David Frum because he was part of an administration, the George W. Bush administration, that didn't do very well with domestic economic policy.
You stand by that statement?
ISSA: I do. I do, that, when you really look at where President Bush, W. Bush, consumed his -- his political capital domestically, Medicare Part D and No Child Left Behind, he really didn't put any emphasis into dealing with the spiraling-up cost of health care.
And, to a certain extent, we deserve blame, but I think that administration certainly is pretty absent on cost control as a part of their fundamental being domestically.
And I understand there was a war. We were attacked.
SANCHEZ: Huh.
ISSA: There were a lot of reasons. But I think, when a speechwriter from that administration says we should have done something, he forgets the man he worked for should have done something on his watch, too.
SANCHEZ: So, are you going to -- are you on the record as saying that we shouldn't be listening to anyone who worked in the George W. Bush administration because they are not credible, based on their record? Is that what you're saying?
ISSA: Well, not -- not at all. First of all, I think there were some accountable people, some Cabinet officers and certainly the president and the vice president, that we would continue to very much use as a resource.
But I think we also have to be honest. This is an administration that did not watch the pennies, and our deficit rose under their watch, some of which was related to the war, some of which wasn't. They certainly didn't deal with the economic looming disaster.
They took credit for the rising homeownership, but not the rising costs that made them unaffordable.
SANCHEZ: Huh.
ISSA: So, I think, you know, as a Republican, you don't throw them under the bus, but you also don't sugarcoat the fact that they weren't perfect, that there are some things this administration is focusing on that we should be doing everything we can to be involved in, in a positive way.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
ISSA: I just don't think we were given an opportunity to be involved in a positive way.
SANCHEZ: That's extremely transparent of you to come on this show and say those things. I'm -- I'm -- I'm struck by your candor.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: No, I'm serious. I -- you know, I -- I never expected to hear you say that on national television.
Congressman Becerra, let me bring you into this argument, because I'm hearing, by the way, now -- and let's just move over to health care, if we possibly can -- I'm hearing an awful lot of Republicans that are saying, if there's a way that they can block this or repeal this, they're going to do so.
What is your reaction to that?
BECERRA: Snap out of it. The vote took place. The policy is now law. Let's move on together, bipartisanly, and make it even better.
The American public heard all the arguments. They didn't buy the distortion. They didn't buy the death panels. To some degree, I think they bought this government takeover. But, as Darrell and I would have to tell you, we have government health care. We get it through the government.
And, by the way, if anyone visits a doctor today, will it surprise you that that doctor is still there, you still can go to your same doctor, that we didn't send the doctor to the gulag?
It -- it's time to move on. We need to get this country back on track, put it back to work. We passed this legislation.
SANCHEZ: Well, that's just --
BECERRA: Now let's make it work well for everyone.
SANCHEZ: That's just it. And the Republicans' point is, we need to put people back to work before we fix people's health care, and you Democrats aren't being real honest with how much this actually costs.
And that's what I'm going to drill down you on -- drill down on you when we come back, if you don't mind sticking around past the commercial.
Cool with both of you guys?
ISSA: We're here.
SANCHEZ: We will do just that.
BECERRA: We're here, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: All right. Stay right there.
More with my two congressmen who were late getting to their seats, because, as you could tell, I had to ad lib to get them there.
(LAUGHTER) SANCHEZ: We had a vote going on, and they needed to vote. It's what they needed to do.
Also, by the way, we're going to be talking a little bit about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For more than three decades, the residents of the city of Newark have been mystified by the disappearance of five teenage boys from the streets of the city one hot summer evening. I'm pleased to announce the mystery has now been solved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is an amazing story I'm about to take you through, guys. It's a mass child killer who's been on the loose for more than 30 years, and police now say that they have got him. Imagine that, out there for 30-some years as a mass killer.
The Texas congressman, also, who screamed "baby killer," he apologizes. But what does Congressman Stupak say about that?
Stay right there. That's next as well. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Congressman Issa, Congressman Becerra, do you know who is number one on RICK'S LIST today? I want to introduce you to Rosalyn (ph) --
ISSA: Are we, together?
SANCHEZ: No. Listen to this. Do you guys have a monitor in front of you? Can you see her?
ISSA: No.
BECERRA: We don't.
SANCHEZ: Oh, man. Let me introduce you to Rosalyn Jones (ph). She loves our show, watches it faithfully every day. She's written and said she wants to come on. And there she is.
She's -- Rosalyn, how old are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ninety-one.
SANCHEZ: She's 91 years old. God bless her, huh, guys?
BECERRA: Years young, years young, Rick.
SANCHEZ: She's -- she's wonderful.
We're glad you're here.
And she and I are going to do a little -- she and I are going to do -- don't cry. Be happy. You're all emotional over there.
You and I are going to do a little ditty in a little while, OK? A ditty, a dance, like Buzz Aldrin.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: All right.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: We will get to that in just a little bit.
I'm glad you could partake in that, gentlemen.
Hey, listen, I'm wondering, because, you know, there's -- there's sides to this story -- and I will start with you, Congressman Becerra, that, sometimes, I just think we need to be a little bit more honest. I'm wondering if, as Democrats, you shouldn't say, yes, this is expensive, it's damn expensive, but we think it's so important that we need to pay up and do this, rather than saying, oh, it's going to pay for itself, et cetera, et cetera?
Are -- are -- are you being genuine when you say this thing really will completely pay for itself?
BECERRA: Oh, absolutely. And you don't have to take my word for it, Rick. Take the word of the independent, nonpartisan referee that handles all this for Congress and the administration, the Congressional Budget Office.
Remember, it was tough, because we did have to make sure that it would take care of itself. It's a $94 billion-a-year expense. That's not cheap.
SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm.
BECERRA: But we come up with savings above and beyond that. Some of it's painful. Some of it's just smart. The "60 Minutes" reports on waste, fraud and abuse in Medicare, the Medicare mills, we're going to try to get all that out.
We're going to try to make sure that we don't have doctors repeating tests all the time. You don't need four X-rays of your teeth. And, so, getting rid of that excess will save us money. But, at the same time --
SANCHEZ: But how soon? How soon?
BECERRA: -- we did have to --
SANCHEZ: Wait. How -- let me just stop you there. How soon? Is this something --
BECERRA: Some of it --
SANCHEZ: Go ahead. BECERRA: Some of it pretty quickly. Some of the reforms could take place pretty quickly. Some of them will take a little longer, because, remember, the exchange where those who don't have insurance start to come in starts to take effect over the next two to three years.
The reforms take place immediately for those who have insurance. This change takes a little bit -- the architecture takes a little longer to build. But we will start at that, because you need to get there to have that savings go across the system.
SANCHEZ: But --
(CROSSTALK)
BECERRA: And, remember, it's a --
SANCHEZ: But let -- let -- let me -- let --
(CROSSTALK)
BECERRA: -- $2.5 trillion system of health care.
SANCHEZ: Hold on. I want to -- I want to -- let me bring in Congressman Issa -- Congressman Issa on this conversation before we get into the -- the detail or the weeds of the numbers, as they say.
You know what I would say to you, Congressman Issa, if I was a Democrat and I was arguing this on their behalf or if they hired me as a consultant? I would say, yes, it's expensive, but you know what's going to happen if we don't do this? Do you know that the U.S. economy could even be crippled in the future if we don't do this? Because it's getting more expensive to pay for people's insurance than it is to pay their salaries.
I think that would be a more sound argument. I'm surprised that some Democrats don't make that argument.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: Rick, I think it's a wonderful argument, if it was just in the bill.
As you pointed out, this bill spends a trillion dollars. Now, whether it's the 500 or so billion that you take out of Medicare or the $500 billion you raise in taxes, if you took that trillion dollars -- assume you did both of those -- and you used it to shore up Social Security or to pay down our deficit, and virtually, you know, reducing it by 20 percent, if you did it, that would be one way to use that money.
In this case, it's being used for a health care reform system that has no -- many of things Xavier said aren't in the bill. There is not any real reduction in waste, fraud and abuse in Medicare. There's no tort reform in this bill. Those are all the things that, now that the dust is settled, on a bipartisan basis, I hope, we begin working on actually getting rid of this defensive medicine, and, sometimes, simply opportunistic medicine that runs up the cost of health care.
SANCHEZ: What -- what about that?
ISSA: We can save billions, but it's not in the bill.
SANCHEZ: What about that, Congressman Becerra? What about the possibility that some of these ideas that Republicans have brought forward could now somehow be legislated, could be brought into the fold, so to speak? They have been pushing for tort reform all along. Why not put some level of tort reform in?
BECERRA: There is some.
So, Darrell, you know, look, next time, we will have to bring the bill and read it page by page.
SANCHEZ: No, no, that's OK.
BECERRA: I have got it. We --
(CROSSTALK)
BECERRA: That's -- that's not the bill.
SANCHEZ: No, no, no, no, that's all right.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: This is the only part I can carry.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BECERRA: What we can do, Rick, is agree that there are reforms in this bill that the referee, not the politician, not this politician, but the referee, CBO, has said will save us money.
So, you're right. What you argue, Rick, is absolutely the truth. We're -- we're going to have to spend $94 billion, but we're going to save far more than that. That's why the CBO said, after the first 10 years of this bill, we're going to actually reduce the government's deficit by $140 billion, and, the next 10 years after that, by over a trillion dollars.
Why?
SANCHEZ: Well --
BECERRA: Because you start to corral the cost of health care. That's what you need to do, because GM can't continue to spend more for health care for its employees than it spends on steel in the cars that they manufacture. You can't do it.
SANCHEZ: Because, if not -- and I get it -- they will go to Canada and start doing stuff there, where the people don't have to pay -- where they don't have to pay for their health care.
Congressman Issa, last question.
ISSA: Sure.
SANCHEZ: If you start to see, in the next -- between now and the midterms, for example, if you start to see that there's parts of this bill that are working, like parents who have a 22-year-old son or daughter, and they graduated from college, and they're not able to get insured, and now they get insured, and they're happy with it, would you come out and say, you know what, some parts of this are actually working?
Or will you, for political purposes, toe the line and say, no, the Democrats passed it; it must be bad?
ISSA: Well, I suspect I will continue to hold up something like this and say, this little short bill, seven pages, could have done all of that, HR-3438. It could take care of portability --
SANCHEZ: Is that Ryan's?
ISSA: -- universal access.
Now, the fact is, these are the good things that are in the bill, extending the age at which parents can support children who otherwise would think they were invincible and not get health insurance --
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
ISSA: -- dealing with the preexisting conditions, which, unfortunately, this bill only does for children. It doesn't do it for adults until 2014.
SANCHEZ: Right.
ISSA: But those are things we do agree on.
SANCHEZ: OK.
ISSA: And I will champion those from before the bill, during the bill and after the bill.
It's really the money and the lack of running -- of really reducing overall cost of health care that I'm going to be concerned about and working after the election to make sure that -- that we work on it, so the American people can afford the insurance.
SANCHEZ: That's the -- that's --
BECERRA: Then we can work together. If that's what Darrell is concerned about, then we can work together.
SANCHEZ: I love to see it, you know, a Dem and a GOP --
BECERRA: Me, too. SANCHEZ: -- guy sitting there, and they're smiling, and nobody is throwing punches. You guys have been great.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: We have always gotten along.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I'm kidding. I'm kidding you guys.
California dreaming right there, two of the best from California.
ISSA: Excellent. Exactly.
SANCHEZ: My thanks to both of you congressmen for taking time for being with us, Congressman Issa and Becerra.
BECERRA: Thanks, Rick.
ISSA: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Take a look at this tweet we got from Senator Chris Dodd just a little while ago. He says: "Today, we have proven that, while progress is not easy, neither is it impossible. Today, our union becomes a little more perfect."
The news is scrolling on, and we're following it for you.
By the way, his Twitter name says "Judge" because he is a former judge. That's Judge Carter. "Only Democrats could come up with that plan that adds 16,000 IRS agents and decreases doctors and call that health care."
There's two of them. We will keep following it. This is RICK'S LIST.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NETANYAHU: Jerusalem is not a settlement. It's our capital.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Within the next hour, Prime Minister Netanyahu is going to arrive at the White House, and he's going to be meeting with the president of the United States. How's that relationship going? If you have been following the news recently, you know it's strained. Wolf Blitzer is my guest. He's coming up in just a little bit, and he knows the Middle East as well as anybody.
Also, the guy charged in Michael Jackson's death may have been hiding something. I'm going to tell you what it is. It's on the LIST as well. I'm Rick Sanchez. I'm going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Time now for the list you don't want to be on.
Sometimes, we argue over who deserves to be on this list. Well, not today. When you're an elected official, a United States congressman, and you shout "baby killer" at one of your colleagues on the House floor, no matter what statement you were trying to make or whatever context you were intending to put it in, if you're compelled to apologize to a fellow congressman, then you belong on the list that you don't want to be on.
Let me remind you what happened Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: It is the Democrats who have stood up --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suspend. Those who are shouting out are out of order.
REP. RANDY NEUGEBAUER (R), TEXAS: -- baby killer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Speaker --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby killer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "Baby killer," you heard it right there.
Act two now: the apology.
Roll it, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RANDY NEUGEBAUER (R), TEXAS: I just called Congressman Stupak today and said, I just want you to know that my remarks were not directed to you personally, that they were about the policy that was unfolding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
STUPAK: Well, he apologized and said it was not directed at me personally. And I told him, well, then it must be the other members. So, therefore, you owe the House of Representatives, the members, the rest of the members, an apology. I mean, we got to keep proper decorum and demeanor on the floor. We're supposed to be professionals. And I know emotions run high, but you got to keep yourself under control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, that was him just before we showed you Congressman Stupak. That's Texas Republican Congressman Randy Neugebauer, easily topping our list today as number one on the list that you don't want to be on.
What went through this police officer's mind when he came this close to a tragedy? That's coming up in just a little bit.
Also, who is the most intriguing person in the news today? I will tell you, he has one heck of a temper. And he has one whole lot of talent.
And we're counting down the highlights from the president's historic signing of the health care reform bill. We are going to bring you that in just a little minute, as it comes into law.
But, you know, there's a person named Rosalyn who came to see us today. She is 91 years old, faithfully watches this show every day. We said, you know what? We will have you on the set. She asked me to come over and say hi.
So, as we go to break, I'm going to do just that. I'm taking off the mike and I'm going over to say hi to Rosalyn.
Stay with.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Who is number two on the list of the most intriguing people in the news? Someone most of you will look up to. No, seriously, you won't have a choice.
She's 6'8''.
Let's do it, Rog.
Nineteen years old, a standout basketball star who didn't start playing until high school. That's where she dunked the ball 52 times in 32 games. She is now a freshman in college, and, last night, she set an NCAA tournament record for blocked shots when her team pounded Georgetown in the second round.
Widely predicted to be the first pick in the WNBA draft after she graduates, but there's something to consider. Watch this. Oh! She's got a bit of a temper. Remember this punch? You saw it here a couple of weeks ago. She hauled off and broke an opponent's nose earlier this month, got herself suspended for a couple of games.
Show her face, Roger. That is what she looks like. She is Brittney Griner, 6'8'' center for Baylor University. Skill is one thing. Anger management is another, if she's going to be turning pro. Today, she is number two on the list of the most intriguing people in the news.
Michael Jackson's final moments. Did the doctor stop thinking about saving Jackson and start thinking about saving himself by hiding stuff? The latest accusations on this are coming up in just a little bit.
I'm Rick Sanchez. You're watching the LIST. And we're coming back.
Don't forget, Wolf Blitzer is going to join me in a little bit as well to talk about what is going on with this meeting with the president of the United States and Prime Minister Netanyahu.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Michael Jackson's final moments. Did the doctor stop thinking about saving Jackson and start thinking about saving himself by hiding stuff? The latest accusations on this are coming up in just a little bit. I'm Rick Sanchez. You're watching the list, and we're coming back. Don't forget. Wolf Blitzer is going to join me a little bit as well to talk about what's going on with his meeting with the President of the United States and Prime Minister Netanyahu. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Man, there is so much stuff going on today. And we're taking you through it as we can. We just learned there are new pictures coming in from the White House. We're expecting to see the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu walking into the White House. This is where they're going to have that historic meeting, the President of the United States, of course.
It would be the second meeting with Benjamin Netanyahu, but never before have tensions been as they are between the U.S. and Israeli relations. So we're going to be drilling down on this with Wolf Blitzer in just a little bit. The pictures are starting to come in. There you see the limos lined up. All the dignitaries are on their way. This is a very important event, and we're going to be all over it for you. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Time for The Brooke Block, and she brings her list, and I'll tell you what, you're getting a little competition, because I know you had --
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I know, this gal right over there.
SANCHEZ: That's Roslyn. She's come -- Roslyn is my girl crush, okay?
BALDWIN: I'm okay with that. SANCHEZ: Do you know what this is? If you've ever head a second wind dreams?
BALDWIN: Second wind dreams, no, but they were just telling us in the commercial break, it's an international thing helping folks with assisted living, nursing homes --
SANCHEZ: Make their dreams come true.
BALDWIN: Make their dreams come true, also.
SANCHEZ: Roslyn watches our show faithfully every day, and I'm humbled by her devotion.
BALDWIN: A lot of people want to see you do that dance.
SANCHEZ: Roslyn, you're the cutest thing we've ever had around here.
BALDWIN: Thanks for coming here, you guys.
SANCHEZ: You and I will do a ditty in a little bit. All right. What's on your list, girlfriend?
BALDWIN: On my list, number one, a story out of New Jersey today. 32 years, case closed. Finally, these two men were charged today with murders of five New Jersey teenagers who disappeared back in 1978. It was this witness testimony put Lee Anthony Evans and Philander Hampton under suspicion. There's a big news conference today announcing this arrest. The Newark mayor, your friend right, knows that this Clinton Avenue Five case, one of the oldest in those buckling cold (ph) cases in the state's history.
SANCHEZ: And here's Cory Booker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR CORY BOOKER, NEWARK, NEW JERSEY: It does not erase the pain of a savage murder of five individuals and the arson that followed. But it does, in many ways, bring some closure and some solace to a city that for too long has stared into the unknown when it came to the disappearance of these young people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Just a brief background on the disappearance. According to the DA's office, they were taken to this Newark home some 32 years ago, held by gunpoint. The home was set on fire. The motive was revenge. It was a revenge killing because the prosecutors believe these boys broke into the man's home to steal marijuana.
SANCHEZ: 32 years ago resolved today.
BALDWIN: Finally.
SANCHEZ: What's going on with Michael Jackson? BALDWIN: Okay. Michael Jackson. Dr. Conrad Murray, you know, he's physician, right? His defense team is blasting prosecutors for leaking these details of a police report to a reporter. Oops. The report comes from a witness that claims that Dr. Murray stopped trying to resuscitate Michael Jackson so he could collect these drug vials from inside the Jackson home. Now, on the flip side, the L.A. district attorney's office said, they did not provide this particular police report to the associated press who were the first ones to get this document.
Murray's lawyer Ed Chernoff says -- here's the statement, this witness statement was given more than two months after Michael Jackson's death and is inconsistent with the statement he, the witness, gave the police the day after Mr. Jackson was taken to the hospital. Here's another interesting nugget as part of this story out of this police report is according to the AP. So, after Jackson was declared dead in the hospital, Dr. Murray insisted he returned back to Jackson's home so he could get this cream that Jackson had so, quote, unquote, "the world wouldn't find out about it." No elaboration. Just kind of -- huh? Murray charged with involuntary manslaughter in Jackson's death.
SANCHEZ: Isn't that messing with evidence? I mean, I supposed --
BALDWIN: That's what they're saying, possibly. Exactly, would reveal the defense's strategy.
SANCHEZ: You got time for one more, because everyone loves a happy ending.
BALDWIN: Okay. Here's the good one. This is the story -- we've shown you this video. Remember this officer, he's on the side of the road, because he's trying to help this guy who is broken down. Then the officer fly away is hit. He's lucky to be alive. He's speaking. Let's hear from him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. JOHN LAMBERT, BROOKLYN HEIGHTS, OHIO POLICE: The last thing that I remember is standing next to the vehicle discussing the traffic crash with the driver. I'm very thankful that my training and instincts took over when they did. But the next thing I remember is waking up in the ambulance. I want to stress that although this specific incident was captured on my vehicle's dash cam, I was just doing my job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Just doing his job. You saw the video. He pushes the guy out of the way to save his life, so then he's hit. He, by the way, according to doctors, is supposed to make a full recovery. Hero.
SANCHEZ: Talk about going head over heels. And yes, I'll give you that as a hero.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: A term that's too often used by the media, but he's the real deal.
BALDWIN: He is the real deal.
SANCHEZ: Chalk one up. He makes the list.
BALDWIN: And that's my list.
SANCHEZ: Thank you, Brooke Block.
BALDWIN: You're welcome.
SANCHEZ: Here's what's coming up. Health care reform or civil rights, which is the more groundbreaking law? Civil rights experts Peniel Joseph (ph) takes a side on this. He's coming up next. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Professor Peniel Joseph is an expert on civil rights and has written extensively about the health care bill and says, it's in many ways analogous to civil rights. You've been hearing a lot about these analogies of life. So, let me bring him in. Professor, thanks so much for being with us, sir.
PENIEL JOSEPH, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, TUFTS UNIVERSITY: Thanks for having me.
SANCHEZ: How do you compare this bill to the civil rights legislation under Lyndon Baines Johnson?
JOSEPH: Certainly, in 1964, the civil rights act is passed, but the real comparison is really 1965, where not only the voting rights act is passed by Medicare and Medicaid and there's national immigration reform. When we think about the civil right movement, we usually think about that as just the movement by black people to liberate themselves, but it's really a wider movement, re-imagine American democracy and expansively redefine what the very nature of our democracy will mean for all citizens.
SANCHEZ: But this is a clear difference, though, because you know, I have to make the argument that how can you compare something like health care reform with something that literally gave people rights that prior to that they did not even have? You know, how do you make that comparison?
JOSEPH: The comparison is this. We're talking about a continuation and the evolution of American democracy. When we think about historically what did civil rights and the voting rights act mean for all Americans? It was about transforming fundamental rights for citizens that were African-American, but really about re-imagining what kind of United States of America we're going to have. The voting rights act of 1965 is about more than just the right to vote. It's actually about how do we define citizenship and democracy, not just for African-Americans but for all Americans. When we think about --
SANCHEZ: And you think this bill does the same thing? JOSEPH: Certainly. It's an evolution and a continuation of how do we define American citizenship, by making health care not just a privilege but a right for all Americans. It continues that evolution in terms of American society. In 1965, Lyndon Johnson talked about a great society. In the 45 years since that great society, we've had very few presidents who are willing to talk about expansively redefining what does it mean to be an American citizen in the 21st century.
Candidate Barack Obama in 2008 had that famous race speech on March 18th where he talked about towards a more perfect union, and the health care bill certainly brings American democracy towards a more perfect union where there's going to be social and political and economic justice and opportunity for all.
SANCHEZ: It's a fair argument. Let me ask you this. Since you're an expert, a professor and have written extensively on civil rights, is this a coincidence that this president is tackling issues that supposedly affect the poor, black and brown communities? Is he doing that for political reasons because those folks vote or if not, why? Why is he doing this.
JOSEPH: I think it's for political and moral reasons. When we think about health care in the 21st century, it really is part of a moral crusade. And on this core, Barack Obama has proven to be -- in a way. He talked about Ronald Reagan during the campaign. And Reagan transformed our democracy by really scaling back on the new deal through tax cuts in 1982 and 1986. What we're seeing right now is a president who believes in an active state in a very subdued and typically understated way.
SANCHEZ: But if it's -- hold on. If it's an activist state, does that mean Republicans are all saying by doing this, you, Democrats are going to be voted out of office in the midterms. And the president keeps telling us that he doesn't care. He's just trying to do what's right. A lot of people will disagree with that, but either way, is this the type of legislation like civil rights legislation was in many ways for LBJ that will hurt the party who puts it in?
JOSEPH: No, I don't think so. I think it's a keen to both the great society but also the new deal. When we think about the 1930s and FDR, the new deal was really vilified by those on the right who felt that it was socialism. People felt that the social security act, the Wagner act, that these things were going to transform democracy but in a bad way. It was going to retard people's freedoms to achieve. When we think about the great society, the great society had its critics. People who were saying that you're bringing welfare.
SANCHEZ: That's in the 1960s.
JOSEPH: In the 1960s.
SANCHEZ: Right.
JOSEPH: Right now, we see critics on the right and left of this bill. But certainly, this is the kind of bill that has galvanized supporters of the president who really did see him as a transformational figure. One last point --
SANCHEZ: We'll see. We'll see. You can say that, but the polls aren't in yet to prove what you just said.
JOSEPH: One last point, Rick. In terms of Barack Obama and the comparisons to Reagan. candidate Obama was --
SANCHEZ: Down to ten seconds.
JOSEPH: He was really criticized for saying he admired Reagan. We're seeing that he believes in the transformative power of communication and government but to transform equal opportunity for all citizens.
SANCHEZ: You, professor, are a delight to have a conversation with. You hold your ground, sir. I appreciate it. We'll get you back, okay?
JOSEPH: Definitely.
SANCHEZ: Peniel Joseph, professor from Tufts University.
Here's what else is coming your way. What can you expect when Benjamin Netanyahu and President Obama meet at the White House? It's about to happen. We're taking you through it. And Wolf Blitzer is going to be here who knows the middle east like the back of his hand.
Also, the moment that President Obama fought long and hard for, signing the health care bill. We've got it on tape. We'll play it for you. This is Rick's List. I'm Rick Sanchez. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. In just a couple of minutes, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is going to arrive at the White House for a private meeting with President Obama. We've got all the engines covered for you. We've got cameras all over the White House to shoot this for you. It's their first meeting since the dustup earlier this month over the expansion of the Israeli settlements when the vice president was there. There's the shot, by the way.
Netanyahu, by the way, last night in Washington continues to take the hard line. It's time for "Wolf Pack," that means Wolf Blitzer brings his list, and he's getting ready to join us now. There are some of our guests looking at Wolf. Wolf, let me start with this. Netanyahu got a pretty good reception last night from congressional leaders. But here's what he said when he was talking to a gathering of AIPAC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: Jerusalem is not a settlement, it's our capital.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: What kind of message is Prime Minister Netanyahu sending not only about the state of U.S. relations but the state of relations between the President of the United States and the Prime Minister of Israel?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think the basic message is that they're going to disagree. The president of the United States and the Prime Minister of Israel on those housing units, those 1600 housing units that were announced the day that Vice President Joe Biden arrived in Israel caused a huge uproar, a huge embarrassment to the vice president. He had come to try to improve the relationship, to get the peace process off the ground only the day before George Mitchell, the special Middle East envoy, announced the start of these proximity talk negotiations, the Israelis and the Palestinians and then that announcement from the Department of the Interior in Israel caused this major setback, and they disagree. They continue to disagree over Jerusalem.
SANCHEZ: There are reports that I have been reading that are coming from some of Netanyahu's aides that say that Netanyahu tends to consider President Obama a one-term president and that they feel like they can wait him out. Have you read the same stuff and what do you make of that?
BLITZER: I'm pretty familiar with the Israeli press. And there's a lot of wild stuff that occasionally appears in some of the newspapers in Israel.
SANCHEZ: Does that sound like it's in keeping with something Netanyahu would --
BLITZER: I don't think Netanyahu has any idea if the president's going to be a one-term president or two-term president because we don't have any idea what's going to happen three years from now. He has to assume that this is the president of the United States, he's going to be dealing with him for several years and he wants to have a strong and as positive a relationship with the United States as he can, given Israel's security concerns. Israel needs a strong amount of support from the United States, and that's what he'll try to do. Having said that, they'll disagree on the status of Jerusalem.
SANCHEZ: I'm not one of those crazies who like to talk too much about body language and stuff like that, but this may be one of those cases where body language actually comes into play, if you know what I mean. I mean, do these guys get along? Can they sit in a same room and agree on anything, you know?
BLITZER: I wouldn't be surprised to see the difference of opinion patched up to a certain degree, although, I wouldn't go too far. Look, they patched it up to a certain degree, the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton.
SANCHEZ: Right.
BLITZER: The Prime Minister and the Vice President Joe Biden, they had dinner last night. But there will be some disagreements. There always are some disagreements. I do think that on the issue of Iran, there's pretty much agreement. They agree that something's got to be done --
SANCHEZ: Oh, yes.
BLITZER: To stop the Iranians from building a nuclear bomb.
SANCHEZ: No, I think you're right about that. Wolf, we'll be looking forward to your show.
BLITZER: See you a few moments.
SANCHEZ: Highlight to the signing ceremony coming up next. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Here we are. The signing ceremony as it happened just a few hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHANTING)
UNKNOWN MALE: Mr. President, you've done what generations of not just ordinary but great men and women have attempted to do. Republicans as well as Democrats. They've tried before. Everybody knows the story. Starting with Teddy Roosevelt. They've tried. They were real, bold leaders. But Mr. President, they fell short. You have turned, Mr. President, the right of every American to have access in a decent health care into reality for the first time in American history.
BARRACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm signing this bill for all the leaders who took up this cause through the generations. From Teddy Roosevelt to Franklin Roosevelt. From Harry Truman to Lyndon Johnson. Bill and Hillary Clinton, to one of the deans who's been fighting this so long, John Dingell. To Senator Ted Kennedy. I remember seeing Ted walk through that door in a summit in this room a year ago. One of his last public appearances. And it was hard for him to make it. But he was confident that we would do the right thing.
Today, we are affirming that essential truth, a truth every generation is called to rediscover for itself. That we are not a nation that scales back its aspirations. We are not a nation that falls prey to doubt or mistrust. We don't fall prey to fear. We are not a nation that does what's easy. That's not who we are. That's not how we got here. We're a nation that faces its challenges and accepts its responsibilities. We're a nation that does what is hard, what is necessary, what is right.
Here in this country, we shape our own destiny. That is what we do. That is who we are. That is what makes us the United States of America. And we have now just enshrined, as soon as I sign this bill, the core principle that everybody should have some basic security when it comes to their health care.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: And now we show you the President signing the bill into law. This is the law of the land, folks. Even though the senate is working on some tweaks, as we speak. By the way, the kid in the blue tie, that's Seattle fifth grader Marcellus Owens (ph). His mother lost her job, lost her health insurance, and then lost her life because of a heart condition. Her case is one of many that we've heard about, and there it is as it happened. For many, a moment in history. Thanks so much for being with us. Let me turn things over now to Washington and my colleague, Wolf Blitzer, in The Situation Room.
