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Rick's List
President Obama's Mojo; Christian Militia Members Arrested; No More Saturday Mail?
Aired March 29, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
CNN's Poppy Harlow joins us now for the CNNMoney list. That's what it's called. It should be called the Poppy list, but we're going to call it the CNNMoney List for now.
How are you?
POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm good. Good to see you up here in New York.
SANCHEZ: Is it true that you did -- did you actually get to ring the bell on Friday?
HARLOW: I did --
SANCHEZ: Are you serious?
HARLOW: -- at the New York Stock Exchange. CNNMoney.com rang the bell, our whole team, because we have these new market pages out with all this great data.
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
HARLOW: So, were promoting it. It was certainly once-in-a-lifetime kind of thing.
SANCHEZ: That was -- we don't -- do -- Rog, can we find that video?
HARLOW: It's kind of embarrassing. No, it's --
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Are you still looking?
He's looking for the video.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right. As they look for that -- that's so cool.
HARLOW: It was very neat, yes.
SANCHEZ: I am so honored to be in your presence.
HARLOW: Aww, thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: That's a neat thing.
Hey, look, for the first time ever, I get to say that there's something good for us citizens coming out of TARP.
HARLOW: Yes, remember that $700 billion bailout program?
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
HARLOW: Well, Citigroup got about $45 billion. And earlier this year, they paid back about $20 billion, but this is what's happening today, Rick.
The Treasury Department, the government, came out and said, it is going to sell its stake in Citigroup pretty soon. They bought shares of Citi around $3.25. It's up more than a dollar from that. So, if they sold it, now, let's say -- we don't know when they're going to sell this thing.
SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm. Right.
HARLOW: But, Rick, if they sold it now, then the taxpayer, through the government, would get back about $8.7 billion in profit as a result --
SANCHEZ: Ka-ching.
HARLOW: -- which would be great.
SANCHEZ: Eight-point-seven billion?
HARLOW: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: For me and you?
HARLOW: For me and you, but here's the kicker to it all. The Congressional Budget Office, you know, they rate all these of things.
They say -- their latest report says, overall, on TARP, we're going to lose about $109 billion --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
HARLOW: -- because of the auto bailouts, so a lot of money there, and AIG. What happens with AIG? They still owe billions.
SANCHEZ: I can't believe you would do -- you tease me like that and then you take it away.
HARLOW: It's a -- it is a step in the right direction.
(LAUGHTER)
HARLOW: And that's what we're all about at CNNMoney.com.
SANCHEZ: Well, the first thing they have --
HARLOW: Moving in the right direction.
SANCHEZ: But they have to put the scroogies to some of those guys on Wall Street. That's another conversation, I know, but they have gotten way too much from us, and somebody needs to start regulating them, regardless of that.
HARLOW: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Let's move on topic two.
What else is on your list today?
HARLOW: Well, the markets today, because we had a really flat week last week. But, today, we saw the Dow hit its highest point in a year-and-a-half. You see the closing bell right there, folks, on Wall Street. The Dow has been up six of the last seven weeks, right now, Dow up about 40 points.
And we see all three major averages closing, Rick, it looks like in the green today, so a good start to the week on Wall Street.
SANCHEZ: So, the market is now at 10895, huh?
HARLOW: It's up, way up, from where it was --
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Yes.
HARLOW: -- not long ago.
SANCHEZ: Remember when we were doing --
HARLOW: We will take it.
SANCHEZ: -- AIG, AIG, AIG?
HARLOW: All the time.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it, Poppy.
HARLOW: You got it.
SANCHEZ: See you again tomorrow.
HARLOW: See you soon.
SANCHEZ: Meanwhile, I want to tell you about this. There's a man arrested. He's accused of threatening a Republican congressman. This is the same Republican congressman who says that someone may have shot at him last week, even though someone really didn't shoot at him last week. It gets confusing, but we're going to take you through the story, the good, the bad and the ugly. That's up next.
Plus, this:
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making the LIST today.
SANCHEZ: Accused of plotting to police officers in the name of Jesus Christ? Militias are back. We're drilling down on who these people really are. The Hutaree? Are there more out there like them?
Health care, student loans, recess appointments, and a trip to Afghanistan.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This was momentous week for America.
SANCHEZ: Is the president building up enough mojo to get his party through the midterm elections?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jim Playfair just broke the stick over the ice. He has lost his mind!
SANCHEZ: And it's time to roll up your sleeves in "Fotos," or the pictures of the day.
What's he got against Japanese cartoons anyway?
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
I'm in New York today. It's hour two. Time to pick up the pace of today's LIST for those of you just now checking in.
Number one, our first look at suspended members of the Christian militia called the Hutaree, accused of plotting a holy war against the government. At least nine people are charged. Eight have been rounded up.
The militia is accused of planning -- listen to this -- to kill a police officer in Michigan, and then, when all the other police officers would gather at his funeral, they would then attack those police officers, and take out many, many, many of them, all government officials.
The Hutaree Web sites shows members of the group practicing military maneuvers. And it says all Christians must be prepared for the arrival of the Antichrist.
Strange as that is, listen to this. Number two, skies are now clearing up, after some really rough weather in the Southeast of the United States. That's the sound you're listening to there. This is one of the eight tornadoes reported in North Carolina last night. There was also one tornado just outside of Fort Lauderdale this morning. A lot of damage, and some minor injuries, but the good news is that there were no deaths reported.
Here's number three for you now, number three on the LIST, that is: a break in -- in the number of murders of three people tied to the U.S. Consulate in Juarez, Mexico. An American Consulate employee, her American husband and the Mexican husband of another consulate worker were shot to death earlier this month in two separate attacks.
Mexican police arrested a suspect. He's been detained since Friday. The suspect is believed to be a 42-year-old member of the Aztecas. That's a local drug gang, a street gang there that acts as the enforcers for the Juarez cartel. Police did not reveal a motive.
Number four on the list: If you're heading home from work, be ready for tighter security on the subway, New York, Atlanta, Washington, and Los Angeles all on alert after two women blew themselves up at two subway stations. This is in Moscow. At least 38 people have been killed.
Our correspondent has been working the story from the moment it happened.
Here's a chunk of what Matthew Chance, CNN's Matthew Chance, has been reporting from Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Rick, it is incredible how a city like Moscow could pick itself up after such devastating blows that it endured this morning, double suicide bombers detonated their explosive belts in two locations in the city, the first one right behind me, the Lubyanka metro station.
Already, it's open for business, and commuters are getting on trains again in this evening rush hour. The second metro station half-an- hour later attacked by a second suicide bomber also reopened for business as well -- in total, 38 people killed in those attacks, another 60 or more in the hospital close by being treated for what are, in some cases, very grave injuries, indeed.
Now, to be clear, there's been no claim of responsibility for these attacks. But the authorities are certain that these suicide bombers came from the very volatile North Caucasus region of southern Russia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Matthew Chance for us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not going nowhere, so you're going to have to carry my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: OK. Did you -- did you hear what she just said about, you know -- well, guess what? We haven't had as much reaction to any other story today as we have this one. That's sometimes the way these kinds of stories play out. When it's drama and characters caught in the moment, it gets you talking about it.
A student arguing with a professor -- there's more of the story, more incredible video. We're going to try and bring it back and drill down on it, because you have been commenting like crazy in the last half- hour, since we showed you that.
Also, this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), HOUSE MINORITY WHIP: Just recently, I have been directly threatened. A bullet was shot through the window of my campaign office in Richmond, and I have received threatening e-mails.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That was Congressman Cantor last week. It turns out he wasn't shot at, but he did get a death threat. A suspect has been arrested, in fact.
That's next on the LIST.
And the RNC has explaining to do today. Who submitted a receipt for a strip club, and --
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: A strip club -- and not just any strip club, by the way -- and expected to get reimbursement for it?
Call me at that number and let me know what you think.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. What a turn of events this is.
I'm Rick Sanchez. We're in New York today, by the way.
And now the politics of the LIST.
Number one on the political list, remember last week, Eric Cantor -- this was Thursday -- he came out and he said, or made it appear as if someone had taken a gunshot either at him or at his offices on purpose.
He was either being a bit of an opportunist in that news or not doing enough work to find out what actually had happened, because it turns out it was a bullet that was shot from perhaps miles away. It didn't even come in this way. The bullet had come in like this.
So, they weren't really shooting at any one thing, and, certainly, his office wasn't the target.
However, here's where this gets more curiouser and curiouser, as Yogi Berra would say. The FBI has now arrested a man who threatened to kill Congressman Eric Cantor. That's right.
Norman Leboon is a 33-year-old resident of Philadelphia. He made YouTube video this month saying that he would kill Cantor and his family.
Mark Preston is joining me now. He's our CNN political editor, and he's bringing -- we want to bring him in on this story.
I mean, here you go with Cantor at the end of last week in a situation where we're all going, hmm. It's a little fishy that he would jump in front of the cameras and say something that then the police turned out to say wasn't true. And now police are coming in and saying, well, hold on a minute. The story gets better.
What do you know about this -- this fellow, what's his name, Leboon?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Leboon. He is 33 years old, Rick. He's from Philadelphia. He appears to be operating by himself.
And, in fact, Terry Frieden, one of our colleagues in Washington, D.C., got a statement from the Justice Department. What they described this gentleman was as a lone, possibly disturbed individual who basically used a camera and put a video up online. It doesn't appear to be part of any group.
And if you were to go look at some of his videos, you would -- you would probably come to that conclusion yourself. Now, when you're talking about what we saw Mr. Cantor talk about last week, that really was at the height of all that -- that vitriolic that we heard from opponents to the health care reform bill.
And, of course, we had Democrats and Republicans sniping back and forth --
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
PRESTON: -- and accusations of inciting hate and violence.
SANCHEZ: But -- but wait a minute. Let me stop you real quick. What do you mean that, if I was to look at that tape, I wouldn't be able to tell if he's related to -- if he hated Cantor, couldn't we assume he's some kind of loony lefty?
PRESTON: Well, again, going by what -- what the Justice Department is telling us, and -- and if you if you look at some of his other videos that are posted on YouTube, he seems to go after a lot of people.
So, making the connection -- and, certainly, the Justice Department is not doing this -- to the bullet that was errantly fired into his office, doesn't appear to be connected in any way.
SANCHEZ: So, this guy had no real ideological benefit, politically, that would lead us to think that he hated Cantor because he's a -- because he's a -- a conservative politician or a Republican, right?
PRESTON: Certainly not a conservative politician, but it was anti- Semitic in nature in some of his rants on the video.
SANCHEZ: Oh, he was?
PRESTON: Mm-hmm.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting, so more religious than political.
Let me ask you about something else. I just learned today, about four hours ago, as I was sitting on my desk -- in fact, I think this came through you or your office -- that you guys were investigating this, some enormous bill racked up at a West Hollywood strip club, where -- How do I say this decently, because of people are at home with their kids? -- where people who aren't necessarily attired of both sexes dance for gentleman and gentlewomen, I guess.
PRESTON: Yes. Well --
SANCHEZ: And there was a Republican turned in a receipt from this place in for $1,946, and he -- and he -- and he was expecting to get reimbursed under meals?
PRESTON: Not only was he expecting to get reimbursed, Rick.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESTON: He was reimbursed, really, a $2,000 embarrassing note that was found within the Federal Election Commission disclosure report that the Republican National Committee has to file every month.
But, basically, you're right. There's a club out in West Hollywood that some would call a risque club --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
PRESTON: -- topless dancers. And there was this receipt that was put in, this Republican political consultant -- our own Peter Hamby actually came up with the name. The gentleman's name is Erik Brown. He's a Republican political consultant out in California. He was reimbursed $2,000.
Now, the RNC, of course, when this hit today, they were terribly embarrassed by it. They certainly don't want to have to answer questions about it. They make a point that the chairman, Michael Steele, knew nothing about it, was not there. And, in fact, they say they are getting reimbursed now.
But, at a time when the Republican National Committee is coming under a lot of criticism for some of their spending habits, Rick, this is not good news. SANCHEZ: Do we know of any other? I mean, just final question -- and -- and may not know this, obviously. You just mentioned that Michael Steele wasn't there. Any other -- because I have never heard of this guy who you mentioned. Was anybody there who was noteworthy or newsworthy who might possibly be a future story for us?
(LAUGHTER)
PRESTON: Well, you know, let's let it play out a few more hours --
(LAUGHTER)
PRESTON: -- because, at this point, we haven't.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESTON: But I am sure we will hear somebody sing shortly.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Oh, my God. And it was a risque club, by the way --
PRESTON: Risque.
SANCHEZ: -- not that I would nobody anything about those places.
Nor you, Mark, right?
PRESTON: Certainly not.
SANCHEZ: I appreciate your time and your great reportage.
Now this: When making a point about Japanese pop culture, you probably don't want to bring up atomic bombs, right? Specifically two nukes not being enough. What was he thinking? This Democratic politician, unlike the Republican politicians we were just telling you about, he stepped over the line, big-time. That's ahead.
Also, there's spousal support, and then there's spousal support. Find out why this wife thinks that she deserves $1 million a month, plus another $9 million, before her divorce is even final. Who are we talking about? That is next. It's on the LIST.
I'm Rick Sanchez. We scroll on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Number three on our list today: The L.A. power company calls it quits. And it's big news around the United States, but especially on the West Coast.
Billionaire Frank McCourt owns the Dodgers, the Los Angeles Dodgers. You know, Lasorda? "The L.A. Times" says estranged wife Jamie wants $1 million a month -- $1 million a month in temporary spousal support. The reason? To live in the style that she's accustomed to -- $1 million a month. She wants another $9 million on top of that for immediate payment of attorney fees. As expected, her husband is fighting this all the way.
Good luck, sir.
Every once in a while, an elected official in a position of power says something so far off base, so out of left field, that I can't help but mention it on a particular list that I keep for you here every day, which many of you look forward to finding out who will be at the very top of that list. The list is called the list that you don't want to be on.
Democrat, New Hampshire lawmaker Nick Levasseur is part of the plugged-in social media set in the Democratic Party. So, when he updated his Facebook status last week, no big deal, right?
Well, wrong. Listen to the comment that he unleashed on a particularly unpleasant -- his opinion, not mine -- form of Japanese cartoon art. He wrote -- quote -- "Anime," which is the cartoon art he's referring to -- "Anime is a prime example why two nukes just wasn't enough."
Oh, my goodness. "Two nukes wasn't enough." You have seen anime characters. They're the ones with the big heads and the big eyes and the voice-over that doesn't quite sometimes match the character's lips. OK.
Whether you consider it artful or not, was it fair for an American lawmaker to invoke the image of Hiroshima, circa 1945, in a Facebook status?
We checked. And it appears that Mr. Levasseur has since removed his profile from Facebook. But a blogger who writes about an anime says that he got a personal response from the legislator. It reads, in part: "It was a poorly-thought-out comment" -- you think? -- "posted just on my private Facebook page. It was never intended to be viewed by anyone other than friends."
Nick Levasseur, that is enough to land you, sir, on the list that you don't want to be on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not going nowhere, so you're going to have to carry my (EXPLETIVE DELETED), because I paid for (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, and then here we go. It's a classic argument about what is the escalation of a situation in a classroom, and when does someone comply or not comply?
Police say, when you end up in handcuffs, you didn't comply. How did things get so out of control? That's ahead, including your opinions. And,, man, there have been a ton of these today on this particular story.
Also, who's the most intriguing person in the news today? We have got that list for you. Here's a hint. She has anger issues -- anger issues. And she's proud of it.
That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There's breaking news, folks. We just reserved something into CNN which is going to be of high interest to anyone who's ever -- well, anyone who has never received a letter or sent a letter, which is I guess just about all of us, right?
The best way to show you this, since it just came over to me, sent to me by my executive producer, Angie, is to just show you what she sent me. Here it is.
CNNMoney.com is now reporting that Saturday mail could be one step closer to cancellation in the United States. Think about that, no more mail on Saturday in the United States. The Postal Service is submitting an official proposal to government regulatory -- oh, my goodness. I just lost that, just as I was reading it there.
I apologize. I think the battery just went down. But, essentially, as it was read to me -- and, Angie, confirm this in my ear as I'm getting this, because it was just seconds on there before I started reading it to you -- that they're saying they have -- they're going to submit their proposal tomorrow to eliminate six-day delivery in the United States.
So, there you have it. They're -- they're thinking that that's probably going to save them about $3 billion a year, something they say is absolutely necessary at this point. Wow.
Here's the bad news about this, though. There's a possibility that this thing would end up costing 40,000 jobs for people in the postal department in the United States, postal workers. There would be 40,000 postal workers who might lose their jobs in the United States as a result of this decision to cut out Saturday delivery.
That's brand-new information. As we're getting it, I'm sharing it with you. And I apologize for this computer cutting out just as we were getting that information to you. And I thank Angie for getting the -- the information in my ear, so that I can share it with you. Sometimes, technology can work a little differently.
All right, let's go to the tweets. This is what you have been saying. And it seems no other story that has interested you more. Perhaps this one about the mail service will, but the story we showed you a little while ago about the de-escalation -- or escalation of a student who had to be arrested in class because her teacher asked her to leave, and she would not. Here is what you say. From New York City: "This college girl should have been taken out of this class. This is college, not public high school."
"The cops didn't give her even a second to get up and follow their orders."
Now, this is interesting. This is somebody saying that the cops were out of line: "Rick, cops always go too far and they always will." That's an interesting perspective.
And then this one: "Students think we owe them an education, and they are in charge. That is not how it works. The teacher is in charge."
Let's do one more. "When someone with a gun tells you to do anything," and then it goes on to say -- move over just a little bit to that side, so I can see it -- "drop everything and do it."
Let's do -- let's do -- let's -- let's go do it, one more. "Rick, I thought Americans had free speech, no matter what. What did they arrest her for? Her words?"
Well, according to Palumbo, yes. When an officer gives an order, you have to obey it. That's the way the law works in the United States.
By the way, if you missed the conversation, we are going to replay the video of that young lady fighting her teacher or arguing with her teacher, and then -- quote -- "resisting arrest as well." We will have that for you on my blog. You can go there, as a matter of fact, any time you want. And we're also going to have a part of that in the next half-hour.
All right, take a look at this. It's time. That's right, the most intriguing person in the news today.
Talk about organizational skills. This lady helped arrange for a reported 8,000 conservatives to march on Senator Harry Reid's hometown of Searchlight, Nevada, this weekend. Now, some call this a conservative Woodstock.
She's not finished either. As president of the grassroots group Anger is Brewing, she, her members, and groups like hers are behind a 42- city bus called -- bus tour called the Tea Party Express. It's set to arrive in Washington on tax day, April 15.
Who is she? Well, she's Debbie Landis. She says the word anger is in the group's name because it's a word that leads directly to action. That's why. From the Tea Party, Debbie Landis is one of today's most intriguing people in the news.
A story that's been the talk of the blogs all day long: at least nine people arrested, suspected of a militia plot to kill police officers. That story is coming up in just a little bit.
How bad does a call have to be to cause this type of -- this type of tantrum? Look at this, the hockey coach who had a meltdown on the ice. That's next right here on the LIST, as we collect some of the best videos of the day.
I'm Rick Sanchez. The LIST is scrolling in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
When you think of hockey, you don't think of heat. In fact, you think of ice. Unless, of course, you happened to be watching our newscast and you happened to be seeing the video -- the best video of the day, which is, by the way, what we call time to dance, as in "Fotos del Dia."
This is a hot temper on the ice. That is not David Banner turning into the Hulk. It's Minor League Hockey coach Jim Playfair. That's his real name -- Jim Playfair.
So, Jim, play fair.
He's disagreeing with a call in British Columbia. He ripped off his blazer after breaking one stick over the ice, and then he yells at the ref. He then grabs another one of his player's sticks, and then he splinters that one as well. And his name is Jim Playfair.
And Jim no play fair.
From a raging coach to a raging bull now. Taking the bull by the horns is usually a figure of speech, but officers in Colorado, they had to take it a little more literally when this guy escaped and ran through a Fort Collins neighborhood. It took not two, not three, but four tranquilizers -- that's right, bang, bang, bang -- to stop this bull from bucking the law.
Now, you're looking at a dash cam video of a high-speed chase. This is in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Too many of these across the country. Too many.
That's not a hardened criminal behind the wheel. It's a 14-year-old girl, and she's got two teenage friends in the car. Imagine if this is your daughter.
She led officers on a 12-mile chase, speeding through lights, construction zones, roadblocks. At one point she even took a chase into -- took the chase into oncoming traffic. Police finally cornered her when she spun out after running over one of them there spike strips.
Those are "Fotos."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know they have a shooting range back there. And we've heard them shoot sometimes kind of late, 9:00 or 10:00 at night. So that's kind of unusual.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: The family next door apparently not what neighbors expected, believed to be militia plotting to kill police officers. Many police officers.
How many more groups could there be like this in the country? That's next.
Susan Candiotti is making her way out here now to take me through the story, and we're also going to be talking to Mark Potok.
Stay there. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. This is THE LIST, your list. And I'm Rick Sanchez.
We are drilling down more on our top story of the day. The video alone suggests that these guys are real serious.
You see camouflage uniforms, you see tight formations, arms and ammunition. Nine members of this messianic Christian militia now have been charged. Eight of the nine were captured in raids in southern Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. Their alleged targets, local, state and federal law enforcement officials. The feds moved in because they seemed to have been worried that someone out there was about to get hurt.
Susan Candiotti is joining me here on the set. Mark Potok is joining me now from Montgomery, Alabama. Both of them are going to take us through this.
Susan, let me just begin with you before I go to Mark.
I think the thing that's most alarming about this story -- because we've heard about people like this in the past. But part of their plan, according to the indictment, was that they would kill a police officer, or hope to kill a police officer, and then when other police officers came to that police officer's funeral or procession, then they would use that as an opportunity to kill more police officers.
That's crazy.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's certainly -- talk about creating an opportunity to take people out. Clearly, the government says there was just a -- this was a hate group. You know, pure and utter hatred for the government as an entity, it is alleged. And for law enforcement officers of any ilk, wearing a badge and a uniform, then they go after you.
SANCHEZ: But I don't understand.
You know, Mark, there's a term for the average police officer in some small town somewhere. You know, they call them local yokels.
What's a local yokel have to do with somebody's hate for Washington, D.C., or the federal government? How do they put that together in their minds?
MARK POTOK, SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER: I cannot answer the question, because the reality is, is that most of these militia groups, of course, do identify the federal government as the real enemy, as the kind of evil entity out there. And federal law enforcement agents of all kinds have been subjects of attacks going all the way back to the '90s. But this idea of killing anyone with a badge, your local police officer, and all with the idea of drawing hundreds of law enforcement officials from around the country, and then launching this attack using IEDs and missiles, is just -- you know beggars the imagine.
SANCHEZ: You know about every one of these folks who does this kind of thing all over the country. You guys keep a list, you compartmentalize them.
Is this as bad as you've seen in a long time? Where would you rate these guys?
POTOK: I think it's one of the worst half-dozen or perhaps dozen things I've seen in the last 10 or 15 years, at least in terms of what their intent was. I mean, you know, we saw plots back in the 1990s that contemplating the deaths of 30,000 people. But, you know, you think a little about what this might really have looked like.
I mean, I've been to police funerals, and they're typically attended by hundreds and hundreds of police officers, all carrying sidearms, of course. So, you know, one can only imagine what kind of sort of Armageddon they thought they were going to create.
CANDIOTTI: And you know, Mark, you've been looking at groups like these for the past 15 years, going way back to, let's say, the Oklahoma City bombing, the siege at Waco, this kind of thing. And then we didn't hear much about them for a while, these militias. Now we seem to be doing that again.
Why do you think? What's driving this?
POTOK: Well, first of all, it's absolutely true that the militias basically peaked in 1996, declined over the next seven, eight years, and have been essentially quiescent ever since then, although there were a few are still out there. And we just saw an enormous explosion in just the last 12 or 18 months.
SANCHEZ: So is this a resurgence? And why?
POTOK: Well, I think the factors that are driving this are a non- white president, in a country that is very unused to that, all that that represents in terms of demographic change. Real anger about the state of the economy, also real anger and frustration about the way the government has dealt with the state of the economy. And in particular things like multimillion-dollar bonuses for the same bankers who arguably drove the economy into the ground, and the rest of it.
I think on top of that, it's really important to say that there's been a lot of mainstream pushing of very radical ideas by politicians and some commentators. So, you know, when politicians talk about Obama as a fascist, as a socialist, as a man who is setting up death panels, or political re-education camps for our children, you know, some people take that kind of rhetoric literally and act.
CANDIOTTI: But what about the religious aspect of all this, that component? What would drive a group like this talking about fear of the Antichrist and the end times? And what does that have to do with this apparent hatred of the federal government?
POTOK: Well, I think these things have gotten all mixed up. So, what I mean is that the patriot groups, the militia groups of the '90s and later, were all about the federal government as an evil actor. And really, what the government was seen to be doing was ushering in a kind of socialistic, one-world government which would rob us of all our freedoms and so on.
This is sort of the Christian millennial twist, where they're, of course, looking right at the "Book of Revelations" and describing the one-world government as something very similar, but this is the one- world government that will be run by Satan. Really, when you look at the ideologies, they're very similar and it's worth remembering that many militia members refer to themselves as "Christian patriots," so there's a strong element of that in the movement.
SANCHEZ: Well, I'm a Christian, but I'm not crazy. And it seems to me that these folks are crazy.
POTOK: I think there's something to be said for that.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question about what you just said about commentators. I just heard you say that something about the rhetoric from some commentators may be causing some of this. What do you mean by that?
POTOK: What I mean is that when you have people going on the air saying -- as, for instance, Glenn Beck has on Fox News -- suggesting that it is very possible that the Federal Emergency Management Agency is running a secret set of concentration camps, even though back in his fourth show finally he decides this isn't true, because he has a huge number of listeners, some portion of that listenership, of that audience, actually believes these tall tales, these fairy-tales. And the same could be said of many others, people who talked about Latino immigrants bringing leprosy to this country, your own former colleague, Lou Dobbs.
It's that kind of thing. But these things have been said by very many politicians as well, and what we have not seen are responsible, or so- called responsible, leaders of the parties, and in particular the Republican Party, where much of this has come from, essentially calling their colleagues out on these kinds of matters. And I understand that John Boehner last week did, but it was kind of a day late and a dollar short.
SANCHEZ: Point well made. And obviously there's a certain tendency when you hear that to believe there's a generalization there. And I've known you long enough to say that there are plenty of quality, smart, well-prepared talk show hosts from the right who are very conservative, but still do not preach this kind of language and do not use that kind of rhetoric.
Right?
POTOK: Yes. I absolutely agree, and I don't mean to defame either conservatives or liberals at all. These are certain individuals, but the nature of the media market seems to have propelled them forward, at least in some instances.
SANCHEZ: OK. We do that for explanatory purposes because we know that the broad brush example will often be used when people talk about these things. But it's an important conversation, certainly an important conversation to be having on a day like this when we have this kind of news.
Mark Potok, our thanks to you for being with us. Keep up the good work.
And Susan, my thanks to you as well. Appreciate it.
CANDIOTTI: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Here's what else is coming up next.
From our political lightning rod list, how should the president follow his health care victory? Education? Financial reform? Immigration?
Yes. No controversy there.
One GOP's lawmaker's advice to the president of the United States, we'll tell you what it is.
Stay right there. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is THE LIST.
High on the list of political hot potatoes, immigration reform. President Obama keeps promising that, look, it's coming, it's coming. And he's under a lot of pressure from pro-reformers to act before the midterm elections. But is it just too hot a potato to handle, on the heels of health care reform, no less?
Thousands of folks are demonstrating for reform over the weekend in Los Angeles. President Obama sent a video. He's promising a bipartisan push to somehow try and fix the system, and there is a bipartisan framework. Framework is a little different from a push, by the way.
From Senators Chuck Schumer and Republican Lindsey Graham, Schumer says the president likes it. He says Bill O'Reilly likes it. But listening to Graham, that's as bipartisan as it's probably going to get. He gives his own plan a fat chance after the nasty health care reform battle from last year when President Bush tried to push through immigration reform and John McCain did as well.
His message for the president -- you do it, Mr. Obama. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I urge the president to write a bill and see if he can get another Republican, see if he can convince the 16 Democrats who voted no last time. Let him do some heavy lifting here on immigration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is an interesting scenario. Graham said that moderate Democrats would rather jump out a window than help the president with immigration reform.
We'll see if that's true.
Was last week a game-changer for the president? I mean, a lot of victories, but also a lot of political landmines are ahead.
Wolf Blitzer in "Wolf Pack" -- in fact, folks, he's in the studio. He just walked in.
Can you get me a shot of that man over there? Give me a shot of Mr. Blitzer, because he's coming up.
He had to stop for a moment because he was signing autographs for all the guys on the crew. But he'll be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Look who's here. It's Wolf Blitzer. It's his time for "The Wolf Pack."
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Correct.
SANCHEZ: And that's what we call it. All right?
BLITZER: Good name.
SANCHEZ: Is it true that you took Duke to win the Final Four?
BLITZER: I did. I did. Not that they will necessarily, but I have them -- I said it in "THE SITUATION ROOM" on videotape. We got -- I said Duke.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Because I think Krzyzewski is a great coach.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Krzyzewski with a "K," by the way.
BLITZER: Whatever. He's a great coach. He's a great coach.
SANCHEZ: I was working with my kid the other day to try and spell the name. Nobody got it right.
BLITZER: He's very cool. You see him, he sits there. He doesn't get too excited.
SANCHEZ: Nobody's cooler.
Speaking of a guy who's cool, the president of the United States.
BLITZER: Yes. Very cool also.
SANCHEZ: He gets health care reform.
BLITZER: He had Kansas. I had Duke.
SANCHEZ: Oh, the president's pick. Well, Kansas is gone.
BLITZER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: They didn't make 16.
BLITZER: It didn't work.
SANCHEZ: So, the president of the United States, everybody thinks he's not going to get health care done. He couldn't even get the people in his own party to go along with him.
He gets it out. Now he goes to Afghanistan to visit the troops. He's promising now some reform when it comes to financial reform and education reform, and some folks are talking down the line about maybe even immigration reform.
What's going on with this guy?
BLITZER: I think on education, he definitely can get something going, because there is some bipartisan cooperation on education. I think on education he's got a shot.
Financial reform, I think he'll probably get something. And comprehensive immigration reform, that's not as likely before the election.
SANCHEZ: It's so -- .
BLITZER: It's so controversial. As you know, this amnesty, whatever they want to call it --
SANCHEZ: Trust me, do I know.
BLITZER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Can the Republicans stymie financial reform and not make themselves look like they're in the pockets of the bigwigs in Washington, the bankers, the guys who created this problem in the first place?
BLITZER: It's going to be hard. It's going to be hard to -- if the Republicans are seen as aligning themselves with the big shots on Wall Street, as opposed to, you know, folks who have their life savings endangered because somebody's working on derivatives and some sort of fast-track investment scheme, that will be a problem for them. So that's a delicate line they're going to have to walk.
SANCHEZ: But what's interesting is you and I both know that the Democrats are just as much up to their knees, if not higher, with Wall Street as the Republicans are, but the Democrats can, in a Machiavellian way, use this to get what they want from the Republicans because of what you just said -- you can't appear to look like you're with these guys.
BLITZER: Going into an election you want to be seen on the side of those who are there to protect people's 401(k)s and their investments, their stock portfolios, as opposed to those who are just making millions and billions of dollars and getting these huge bonuses. So that's an issue.
SANCHEZ: Given what we've seen with the Tea Parties, given what we're seeing in other parts of the country, folks are so angry at Obama when he tries to pass this type of sweeping legislation, wouldn't it be like throwing gasoline on a fire, for this president to try and put immigration reform out there as an issue right now?
BLITZER: I suspect he won't. I suspect he'll talk --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Because it's too much of a hot potato?
BLITZER: Yes, and he's probably not going to get. Bush tried to do it.
SANCHEZ: Yes -- McCain.
BLITZER: He had Ted Kennedy, he had McCain, he had Lindsey Graham, and he had a lot of Democrats, and he couldn't do it. It's a problem, especially in a rough economic environment, to get that kind of thing going. It's a problem. So my suspicion is immigration reform will be pushed to next year, 2011, as opposed to this year.
SANCHEZ: Great to see you. You going to do your show from here today?
BLITZER: I will.
SANCHEZ: Go Bills.
BLITZER: All right.
SANCHEZ: Dolphins and Bills in the finals next near.
BLITZER: Bills are the way to go.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I knew you would say that.
Wolf Blitzer with "Wolf Pack."
All right this -- the school of hard knocks for this college student. Did authorities just go too far? No story we've done today seems to have gotten as much interest from you as this one has because it's a real human drama, folks.
Stay right there. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: So many Americans deal with this every day, that we decided we'd let you see a case study of it.
What is the proper response to keep yourself from being arrested when an officer orders you to do something? That's a question many of you watching THE LIST may be asking yourselves from time to time.
I talked to retired it police officer Lou Palumbo about this. This is an issue that's -- well, it's called compliance. When are you compliant or not compliant?
We looked at this through the prism of the situation. A professor tells a students to leave the classroom. The student refuses and the professor calls security. This is where the video picks up the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not going nowhere, so you're going to have to carry my (EXPLETIVE DELETED), because I paid for (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
What are you doing?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gets your hands off of me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down on the ground!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not even fighting you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down on the ground!
SANCHEZ: All right. As we watch this, Lou, the police officers come up. The part we didn't hear is they say, "You're going to have to leave." And she responds to them with?
LOU PALUMBO, RETIRED POLICE OFFICER: "You're going to have to drag my ass out of here."
SANCHEZ: Which is grounds for them immediately arresting her?
PALUMBO: Well --
SANCHEZ: No questions asked?
PALUMBO: Absolutely. But she didn't even have to respond like that, Rick. Once they directed her or ordered her, they issued a lawful order for her to leave the classroom. She was required to comply. The little caveat --
SANCHEZ: Why is that? What if they're asking me to do something which is completely -- what if they're saying I robbed a bank and I Know I did not rob a bank. Why do I have to comply?
PALUMBO: Because that's what the law says. As I mentioned to you earlier, the law is written that you may not even resist on unlawful arrest.
Your recourse is if you want to sue a police department or a law enforcement agency for false arrest, but you cannot even resist an unlawful arrest, an arrest that you know you're not guilty of. That's the way the laws are written.
In the instance of this young lady, she was three times asked to leave the classroom. The bottom line is --
SANCHEZ: Twice by the teacher and once by the cops.
PALUMBO: And she refused to. And then her response to them was, "I'm not going anywhere. You're going to have to drag my ass out of here."
SANCHEZ: So she basically got what she had coming?
PALUMBO: Well, here's the thing. At what point do the police draw the line in the sand and make themselves paper tigers? To where that they're going to back down from her at that point?
SANCHEZ: Interesting.
PALUMBO: And there's a whole class -- the implication of this goes well beyond just the fact that she was disruptive. It's a message you send to the rest of the class and to the teacher. You have to support them.
The teacher asked her to leave the class. There was a whole incident that precipitated the teacher's engagement with her which I understood dealt with something like bouncing a water bottle off another student. And the teacher attempted to negotiate her way through the situation.
SANCHEZ: But unfortunately, it didn't de-escalate the situation and the student did not become compliant. And when you don't show compliance, you're arrested.
PALUMBO: You are subject to arrest.
SANCHEZ: And that's -- you're subject to arrest. Thanks, man.
PALUMBO: My pleasure.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate you always coming in and takings us through these kinds of scenarios. And I think it's instructive for all of us, because you never know when any one of us on the way home could be faced by a police officer. And not all police officers are always right.
PALUMBO: I agree 200 percent with you. They're human beings, too.
SANCHEZ: All right. I appreciate it, Lou.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Great show. That's RICK'S LIST with your input, in your homes, on your TV, on your telephone and on your laptops.
Now to "THE SITUATION ROOM." Here's my friend, Wolf Blitzer.
