Return to Transcripts main page

Rick's List

U.S. Governors Being Threatened: Resign Your Post or Else; Scott Roeder Sentenced to Life in Prison; Republican Infighting?

Aired April 02, 2010 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, guest appearance. Thank you for that. And thank you for getting into those numbers, absolutely, a lot of people scratching their heads about those unemployment numbers. We will be getting into those here at CNN and get into them some in the next couple hours here on RICK'S LIST.

Also, governors all over the country get an eerie message. Just about all of them are getting this message, a letter in particular that says, get out of office, or else. We're going to be talking about that, including one of the governors who got that letter.

Here's what else we're cooking up.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES (voice-over): Making THE LIST today -- Scott Roeder headed to prison for life.

SCOTT ROEDER, DEFENDANT: If you were to obey the higher power, God himself, you would acquit me.

HOLMES: We will look at the controversy. Why are some people upset with Roeder's sentence for killing an abortion provider?

Also, a new approach to checking passengers before they arrive in the U.S.

JANET NAPOLITANO, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It's a more intel- or information-based way to screen.

HOLMES: But isn't this profiling?

Pedal, Joe, pedal -- why America's toughest sheriff is riding a bike.

Frustrated with scandal --

TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: It appears that the RNC is tone-deaf.

HOLMES: -- they want your money to go to candidates, not the Republican Party. I will ask the Family Research Council what they hope to gain.

And the lists you want to know about, who's intriguing, who's making news on Twitter. It's why Rick keeps a list. Your national conversation starts right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: And good afternoon, everybody, T.J. Holmes here, sitting in on RICK'S LIST today.

And topping the list is a story everybody is trying to just figure out, trying to figure out what to make of the story and what to make of a letter that appears to have been sent to all of the U.S. governors, saying, resign your office, or else. In particular, be prepared to be removed from office.

The group that sent this letter out, from best we can tell, is another of these so-called patriot groups. But if you don't take them seriously, let me tell you that the FBI is taking this seriously, and warning the nation's police that this letter might trigger violence.

The question a lot of people are asking, how exactly? And also people are asking, what do we make of this? Should we take this seriously? The letter from this group we have pretty much never heard of, could this result in some kind of an outbreak of violence? We are in the process of trying to answer all of those questions.

But, in the meantime, we want to listen to a governor, an interesting take he has on this. This is one who got the letter. This is governor of my home state of Arkansas, Governor Mike Beebe. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE BEEBE (D), ARKANSAS: Yes, we got one.

QUESTION: What did it say?

BEEBE: It said a lot. We turned it over to the state police. It's that -- it -- I think it's a group that only recognizes -- well, I don't want to say that. What it basically said was that resign and reapply, and we will reinstate you if you will sign this deal.

So, we just turned it over to the state police.

QUESTION: Have you stepped up security at all at your office?

BEEBE: No. No.

Oh, you will have to talk to them. Not to my knowledge. I'm going on about my business.

QUESTION: How serious are you taking these threats?

BEEBE: I mean, you know, that's not my job. The -- that's the security folks' job. I think the FBI is the one that's -- because it's all 50 states, apparently. And so the FBI I think is leading all that in all 50 states.

Of course, we have our own state police and our own security folks, but they do their job. I don't try to interfere with their job. I let them do their job. I just try to do mine. We haven't changed anything.

QUESTION: Have you ever gotten a threat like this before?

BEEBE: Oh, yes. We get threats all the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: All right, again, you're listening there to the governor of Arkansas, Governor Mike Beebe. You heard him say the letter was saying resign. Apparently, again, it seems that it went out to all 50 governors. Also him say that he gets threats all the time. He doesn't sound too worried maybe.

But, again, the FBI, don't know if they're worried, but they are at least taking the letter seriously. And, apparently, there are some fears out there that this could trigger violence.

Let's talk to another governor, Gary Herbert. He's the Republican governor of Utah. He got one of the letters as well. He joins us now from Salt Lake City.

Sir, thank you for being with us. I see you're still in office, so you didn't step -- you didn't step down. But, tell me, what is the FBI -- they seem to be taking this seriously? What are they telling you about the seriousness of this letter, the seriousness of a possible threat?

GOV. GARY HERBERT (R), UTAH: Well, I think I have actually until tomorrow to resign, and so I have got one more day to go.

(LAUGHTER)

HERBERT: But we take it serious here in Utah, and I know the FBI takes it serious. We do have threats that come occasionally. Just kind of the nature of the work we're involved with, people get frustrated and probably many times just do and say things that they ought not.

But we have a harmonious relationship here in Utah with all levels of government, whether it be the local government level, city and county, or state department of safety, and the federal government. So, they're working together on this.

HOLMES: Well, Governor, tell me you get threats all the time. I assume that all of them don't necessarily trigger any kind of a step- up in security or FBI intervention. So, tell me, what was different about this letter, in your opinion?

HERBERT: Well, I think the breadth of it, the fact that we have got people signing letters petitioning, as it were, and giving us their names gives you pause. Sometimes, this is done anonymously, but the fact that these people have been brazen enough to sign their names to it probably is an exception. And the fact that it's in all 50 states, at least apparently going to all 50 states, is -- the breadth of it is quite unique with this organization. So I think that's the biggest difference.

HOLMES: But tell me what you know about, what you have been able to gather, what your people have told you this group called the Guardians of Free Republics. It's one. There seems to be a lot of groups out there, but this one, how do we know, or do you have an indication that it -- this could be a couple of guys sitting up in their living room with a fax machine, for all we know.

But what you know about the group, but also the language in the letter, are you worried that it could actually trigger other people to action?

HERBERT: I don't think it will trigger other people to action. In fact, I think people are repulsed with this kind of an approach.

We live in a nation of laws. We have an opportunity of free speech and dialogue and try to understand each other, even though we have differences of opinion. If you want change in this country, this is absolutely the wrong way to go about doing it. And I -- we take it seriously, but these are people that are extremists that ought to be marginalized, and I think good, sensible people will, in fact, not be persuaded by this kind of an approach.

HOLMES: And, again, what do you know about this group? What have you been told, what have you been able to gather about who they are?

HERBERT: Well, I don't know a lot about them. Again, this has been turned over to the experts working with the FBI and DEA and ATF from the federal level, as long -- with our own homeland security people and our department of public safety.

We know that they are people that are frustrated. I don't know what their origins are, but the fact that they have got representatives in all 50 states means they're pretty broad in their efforts, whether it's an Internet group. I believe these are real people. This is not some kind of ghost organization. I know they have got a Web site.

And they are, in fact, concerned and frustrated probably about a lot of things. Again, everybody's frustrated about a lot of things on the left and/or the right. But there is a way and a mechanism. And the Constitution allows us to discuss these things and make change in a peaceful way. That's what's been great about America, and that's the way it ought to be done today.

HOLMES: Any extra security so far from you or anybody on your staff, or the state police, or any of the guys looking out for you out there?

HERBERT: We have got basically our same staff. Again, it's a constant vigil that you always have in this level of politics. We have security measures. We have got people that are stationed at the appropriate locations, and kind of keeping an extra eye out for anything that would happen over the next few days. But, for me personally, it's business as usual.

HOLMES: All right.

HERBERT: We're going about our business. We're doing what we need to do to govern the state of Utah. And I expect other governors are doing the same thing and kind of ignoring this distraction.

HOLMES: But, again, I think heard you there right, but you all haven't changed security one bit?

HERBERT: Well, again, I wouldn't say we haven't changed security one bit. Again, they take these threats seriously. We have professionals around us that that's their job, that's what they do. I have turned it over to them, and I have every confidence in the world that they will do what is appropriate, necessary under the circumstances.

HOLMES: All right, well, Governor Gary Herbert, again, sounds like you are going to be holding on to your job, not going to be resigning any time soon.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: Sir, we appreciate you taking the time out. Thank you so much.

HERBERT: Thank you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROEDER: In pretrial hearings, you gave me and my attorneys the impression that I would be able to tell a jury of my peers the reasons why I shot George Tiller. In classic duplicity, you said one thing and did another. I'm taking this opportunity to put on record what you have denied me at my trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Yes. You may have heard some of that yesterday. Scott Roeder killed an abortion provider. He was sentenced yesterday. He got his turn to speak, and he took advantage of that opportunity. He also told the judge, "The blood of babies is on your hands."

Why did he say that? And what else did he say? What, also, is the reaction to some of what he said? That's ahead here on THE LIST.

Also, new security guidelines start today for people traveling into the U.S. Are specific people being targeted? We're drilling that down next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, on our security list: tougher new passenger screening for flights coming into the United States. It will affect all airlines, all passengers from all countries, and it's all about you, what you look like, who you are, where you been, where you going.

Here are some of the things about you that airport screeners could use to decide if they need to haul you aside for a closer look, first, where you're traveling, your age, your race, your religion, partial passport information, a partial name. Race and religion, of course, to a lot of people, are jumping out here.

Those are a couple of touchy subjects there. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano was asked about the new screening process today while she was assessing flood damage in Rhode Island.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NAPOLITANO; What we have done is changed the way we screen passengers who are coming internationally into the United States. It is a more intel- or information-based way to screen. It's a stronger way to determine whether passengers should go through secondary examination and not just primary examination. And it will provide a safer and more secure international system for American travelers. And that's what we were looking for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: So, why? You can thank this guy for the new security rules. They're the result of a screening review President Obama ordered after Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab allegedly tried to use explosives hidden in his underwear to blow up a plane flying from Amsterdam to Detroit on Christmas Day.

Well, actor John Forsythe has died. Many people will remember that name, that face, that voice, remember him from shows including "Charlie's Angels" and "Dynasty." We're going to be taking a look back at his life and career. That's just ahead.

Also, does President Obama hate the media? Well, Jessica Yellin is a part of the media, and how could anybody hate Jessica Yellin? She's going to be along next to help us drill this down.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: Stay here on THE LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, it's time now for the Yellin's list. Coming to us today from New York, our national political correspondent, Jessica Yellin.

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi.

HOLMES: Hello to you. I'm starting to think the president might not like us too much. Let's listen right quick to the president, talking about you and I, Jessica, as he was talking about the health care law just the other day. Let's take a listen now. I will ask you about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Can you imagine if some of these reporters were working on a farm and --

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: -- you -- you planted some seeds, and they came out the next day and they looked and -- nothing's happened.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: There's no crop.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: We're going to starve. Oh, no!

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: OK, Jessica, you have been out there on the campaign trail for quite some time, and you followed this guy for quite some time. So, this president --

YELLIN: Yes.

HOLMES: -- at least yesterday, just to you, did he seem like he was a little feisty, a little funny, got some good energy? He seems like he's got his footing after this health care win.

YELLIN: He sure did. He seemed like campaign Obama and very confident and back on his stride.

And this use of the media like that, it's strategy. You have seen every elected official do it at some point. George Bush did it all the time, attack the messenger. That's what he's doing. They don't love what we do. It's got to be annoying to be covered the way these guys get covered by us, but this is strategy, and I don't think it's much more than that.

HOLMES: You say they always do it, and you're absolutely right about that. So, explain to our viewers once again why we're such easy targets for politicians.

YELLIN: Because we're delivering the bad message too often, and it's easier to attack the messenger than to refute some of the message itself. And it gives them a target. It's always more effective to be on the attack against some evil foe than it is to just be explaining something that's abstract like health care that hasn't started yet.

So, if they're on the attack against us, it gives them somebody -- something to get riled up over.

I do -- I will add one thing, T.J.

HOLMES: OK.

YELLIN: I know some of these folks in the White House do think that the media is fundamentally flawed structurally and they would like to change how we do our job. And they think they are doing in part by posting things online, posting the president's speech, giving people direct access to him.

But every White House thinks they're going to change the media, and it so far hasn't happened yet.

HOLMES: Yes, we haven't gone anywhere yet. We're a stubborn bunch.

YELLIN: Right.

HOLMES: But you were talking about the president explaining things. Well, Michael Steele --

YELLIN: Yes.

HOLMES: -- whoa, boy, boy, you would hate to explain this, oh, my God, this picture.

YELLIN: Oh, my God. What a picture.

HOLMES: Sorry about that.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: But Michael Steele -- and this goes from the -- the RNC. This is video or pictures, at least, from this bondage club where some RNC staffers -- people know the story by now -- apparently spent some 2,000 bucks.

Now, what is going on with Michael Steele now? It just seems like another embarrassing moment, another screw-up after another screw-up.

YELLIN: Wow, what a bad week this guy is having. This is just -- you would say, which is worse, the location where this took place, that they were spending money on a voyeur club or a whatever you call it, dominatrix club --

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: We're going to go with bondage. We're sticking with bondage.

YELLIN: Bondage, got it. Thank you. (LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: OK.

YELLIN: I will learn the terminology.

HOLMES: Yes.

YELLIN: Or that they are just blowing $2,000 on young donors in a night?

I think they're both problematic. And one of the reasons is because the RNC has been blowing through too much money, and Michael Steele is getting criticized for that. He is -- you know, we criticize him or talk about him for what -- his public comments, but behind the scenes, in private, a lot of Republican establishment types are frustrated with the way he's managing, or not managing, the money.

HOLMES: OK. Is that going to be the bigger problem? A lot of people think the Republicans are primed. They're set up. All they have to do is don't screw it up.

YELLIN: Right.

HOLMES: And they will actually pick up some big wins, pick up a lot of seats in these midterm elections. But it seems like they don't have enough money and they seem to be in disarray. So it's like grabbing defeat out of the jaws of victory.

YELLIN: Right. You know, that's what -- that's what a lot of the folks I talk to who have been longtime members of the Republican Party and part of the establishment, they are frustrated. They raised so much money for a long time this year.

But then too much has been spent. And now there's some even breakaway groups that are trying to do the job themselves, raise money from donors for Republican candidates around the RNC, because they just don't have faith in the Republican National Committee anymore.

So, it's not a -- it's a knock on Michael Steele's management style. I don't think it's a knock on how successful the Republicans could be in the midterm elections. They are still raising money at a healthy clip. Just, the RNC is having serious issues.

HOLMES: OK. The RNC is having issues, and it seems to be a lot of people pointing to Michael Steele as being the issue.

YELLIN: Right.

HOLMES: How long will he hold on to his job? And why can't -- I guess it's not as easy as just firing him.

YELLIN: No. You have to have a vote by a vast majority of the executive committee. It's too -- it's basically very, very hard to play by the rules and fire him. And there's also the P.R. fallout. It's not going to be a pretty picture for the Republican Party if they fire Michael Steele. It will generate a ton of press -- or get rid of him. I think most of the folks I talk to think it's not worth it -- get through this.

Other Republican organizations, the Republican Governors Association, the organizations that raise money directly from members of Congress are doing very well. And just sort of manage the problem as they put it is what they see going forward, but what a week for them.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLMES: Yes, manage the problem. That's a big problem if your name is being said along with bondage club in the next sentence. It really is.

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: Jessica, I hope that never happens to you and your name.

YELLIN: Yes.

HOLMES: But we know tonight, you're going to be -- 8:00, right? You are going to be sitting in for Campbell Brown 8:00 Eastern time.

YELLIN: Yes, yes, filling in for Campbell. Watch if you're home.

HOLMES: So, we will see you tonight. All right. Good to see you.

Well, of course, you know, here on RICK'S LIST, he keeps a list. He keeps track of people who are making news on Twitter, a lot of those political types and things out there.

I'm seeing something, this, data from the RNC over here. It looks like Michael Steele put this out: "Unacceptable for President Obama to declare economic success when unemployment remains at 9.7 percent."

We will be looking at what other people are out there tweeting, the other political types out there on Twitter, throughout the next hour-and-a-half.

Also, we're going to be talking to Poppy Harlow about the jobs report as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA, SHERIFF: If they want to watch TV, they're going to work for it. It's a two-prong attack here. No work, no TV.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

HOLMES: Sheriff Joe, Joe Arpaio, he's up to it again. You're not going to miss -- I don't want to miss this one. On the list of inmates' responsibilities now, if they want to watch TV, they have to generate their own electricity to watch TV. How? That's coming up.

Also, and this all started seven years ago, when one of her students asked her how astronauts go to the bathroom in space. Who is our most intriguing person of the day? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: And a live picture we have on our LIST today. This is that procession, this Good Friday ritual for Catholics all over the world. But what you are watching here is the Way of the Cross procession. Again, this is happening live. This is happening at the ancient Colosseum in Rome. This is just across the way from Saint Peter's at the Vatican.

I'm going to listen in just for a second, if we can, guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Jesus is given his cross.

HOLMES: Now, this procession commemorates the suffering of Jesus Christ as he made his way to the cross, where he was crucified. Now, Catholics call this sequence of prayers the Stations of the Cross, is what is it's called. But, again, this is happening live right now in Rome. We saw a picture there. We're not in control of this live picture, but you saw a shot there a moment ago of Pope Benedict, who is taking part in this particular procession.

Of course, this weekend, for Catholics all over the world, Good Friday, Easter Sunday just a couple days away.

Well, we're going to turn now and tell you about the most intriguing person in the news today. She is a high school teacher. She's not satisfied with keeping her lessons in the classroom. And when one of her students asked question about life in space, she found the answer on NASA's Web site, but she found something else on that Web site as well, an application to be a teacher in space.

She applied. That was seven years ago. You can tell how this story's going to end. Let's show her picture now. She is Dottie Metcalf-Lindenburger, now a fully trained NASA astronaut who will be absent from class for the next few days or so starting next week. Pretty good excuse she has. She will be on board space shuttle Discovery. scheduled to lift off Monday, headed for the International Space Station.

My science teacher was an underachiever. Dottie Metcalf- Lindenburger flying high, and she is our most intriguing of the day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROEDER: If you were to obey the higher power, God himself, you would acquit me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Why are people upset with Scott Roeder's sentence for killing an abortion provider? And what does his ex-wife now have to say? That's ahead.

Also, we got something here that will leave you shaking your head. Caught on camera -- no shame here. She swipes a jar. It was a donation jar. She didn't run out of the store with it. She didn't just slide on out. She went back to making her coffee after she stole the jar.

You have got to see it to believe it. That's next on THE LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: He is the tough-talking, reality-show-appearing, pink- underwear-enforcing sheriff known as Sheriff Joe Arpaio, and now he's peddling a different form of prison activity.

His latest idea -- televisions powered by an exercise bike. This is the sheriff, Sheriff Joe, demonstrating this device. Inmates viewing options were previously limited to the Food Network, the Weather Channel, and C-Span. Under "Pedal-vision" as the program is called, local channels will also be available.

Prisoners do have to sign a contract to take part, but they pedal, they have to provide their own energy.

Now, this is in California, Oildale here, perhaps the most casual theft of charity money ever. If you can make this out, the lady is actually swiping a jar. She strolls over after swiping the jar, this is a donation jar, as soon as the cashier turned her back. Then she strolls over and continues making her coffee like nothing happened. You all seeing this?

Now, the donation jar, if you must know, if you must know, if you can handle this, it's for terminally ill children. No idea exactly how much she got away with.

And here's another heist. When kids start out young, what kind of life does she have ahead of her? Look at this. You know these machines, you can't get the little animals out. She decides to go up in there and clean the place out. This video has gone viral actually this week.

And you know these machines, they are frustrating. You put the money in, you try to guide around the little claw. You see her in there now, cleaning the place out.

I can't tell actually how young she is. But she appears to be, what, younger than 10, to be that small, make five or something like that. Oh, what are we teaching our kids these days? Starting them early.

And those of your "Fotos" of the day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think you can have healthy meals, but for a night out, have a bit of fun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: They're trying to take your popcorn away. They're trying to take your popcorn away at the movie theater, but when you hear how many McDonald's cheeseburgers equal one bucket of movie popcorn, you might be trying to get away from the popcorn, too. That answer might surprise you, but it is ahead.

Also jobs, the numbers are out, and we'll tell you what they mean and what they really don't mean. Our Poppy Harlow found a town where the job market is shining bright. She's shining bright there as well there. That's next on "the list."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, on the jobs list right now, 162,000 more of them. That sounds like some great news, but we need to delve into a little deeper. The Labor Department said the economy added 162,000 more jobs last month, but the unemployment rate didn't budge, still at 9.7 percent.

Not everybody thinks the news is so positive. We are asking our Poppy Harlow about it. She comes to us today from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. We're going to talk a little bit more about why you're there exactly, but we do need to talk about --

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Sure.

HOLMES: -- what these numbers mean, Poppy. Any addition of jobs is a good thing, but help us put it in perspective.

HARLOW: It's a great thing, but, look, this is the biggest increase we've had in jobs in three years, since March of 2007. That's great news.

But you've got a number of factors here. You've got almost 50,000 of jobs, T.J., added just as a result of the census, so they're only temporary jobs. You've also got a lot of jobs added in the government sector, construction because of stimulus spending, and the question is are those going to be long-lasting jobs.

So I think the question is this number was a little bit less than expected, actually, and the unemployment rate still stayed stubbornly high at 9.7 percent. That's still of great concern for the president, it's something he talked about today with workers in North Carolina.

So, yes, the jobs picture is getting a little bit better. But you got to dig into the numbers more to see actually what they mean.

And another thing that comes out of this report is minorities, African-Americans in particular, T.J., unemployment rose for them and they are seeing more job losses. So it's not spread out evenly when you look at it by race.

So a lot questions about the numbers. Still, though, yes, added jobs is something that anyone will take at this point, T.J.

HOLMES: Why can't we do what they're seeming to do in that town?

HARLOW: Sure.

HOLMES: Apparently they have found something that works there.

HARLOW: They have. This is interesting. You see the skyline behind me, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. It's in central Pennsylvania. This is a city not that big, about 500,000 people, but they have an unemployment rate of 8.4 percent, bucking the trend, doing better than the national average. They have been through the whole recession.

And so we wanted to pack our bags and come to Harrisburg to find out what is going on. To do that we had to talk to local workers and local entrepreneurs. Take a look at a little bit of what we found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Jessica Myers started her construction company here six years ago, growing to it 18 full-time employees by expanding into property management, not just construction. That's allowed her to bring on three recent hires.

JESSICA MEYERS, OWNER, JEM GROUP: We had over 100 resumes for one position.

HARLOW: Justin White got one of those positions, but only after being out of work for almost a year.

MEYERS: It was definitely a humbling experience, being out of work, no health insurance.

HARLOW: You said the first time you were unemployed was when?

JUSTIN WHITE, NEW HIRE, JEM GROUP: Last year. It was the first time ever. I mean, I've -- I've had a job since I was 14 years old, never been without a job. I just didn't know how to react without one.

HARLOW: But Myers hired him just before the unemployment checks ran out.

WHITE: Without jobs like this, people like me are standing in the unemployment line.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: That's exactly right. As you know, T.J., you can almost see it behind me, the baseball stadium. That is where Justin you just heard from is working. That's why he has a job because they are building the new stadium.

Bottom line, this town has a lot of government jobs. It's the capital of Pennsylvania. They've got a strong education and health care sector. Combine all of that with a conservative nature, no real estate boom or bust here, that has provided just a solid framework for job growth in this place, and they're doing a lot better than most other cities across the country, T.J.

HOLMES: They're doing better. They're still I think you said at 8.4 percent, I'm sure they'd like to see it go down a little bit.

HARLOW: Still high.

HOLMES: Still high, though. Poppy Harlow, good to see you, thank you as always.

HARLOW: You got it.

HOLMES: We'll turn back to Scott Roeder here in a moment. He's heading to prison for life, for killing an abortion provider, but not without some choice remarks to the judge. We'll tell you exactly what he said, and what his ex-wife thinks about it as well. That's next on "The List."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: On our "Legal List" today, a controversy over sentencing. The man who killed abortion provider George Tiller gets sentenced and he's going to prison. But he could still be eligible for parole after 50 years.

Now, this was Scott Roeder's reaction yesterday. Here the judge is handing down the sentence, and this is what the man who had just heard his sentence had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The statute, therefore, requires the court to impose the hard 50, and it will be the order, judgment, and sentence of this court that you be remanded to the custody of the secretary of corrections for the term of life, with your first parole eligibility in 50 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The blood of babies are on your hands. The blood of babies are on your hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, you may have been able to have hear him there at the end. He said, "The blood of babies is on your hands." He made the outburst as he was being carried out.

His ex-wife said an outburst like that one doesn't surprise her, because she saw him act that way, quite frankly, a lot when she was married to him. Her name is Lindsey Roeder, and she said she and the son she and Roeder had are both relieved at the sentence he received. I want to bring in Jean Casarez. She's a correspondent on "In Session," our sister network at TruTV. Jean, thank you. I want to talk about the hard 50 that the judge said in a moment, but he got a few moments to speak out, to speak his mind in a lot of ways.

That's not necessarily uncommon, but how this one went down was a little bit uncommon.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT "IN SESSION," TRUTV: You know, T.J., it's supposed to be a few minutes, because he's basically begging for mercy right before the judge sentences him. Well, an hour later, he was still talking, and the judge allowed it probably because there is going to be an automatic appeal. The judge does not want this decision reversed in any way by an appellate court or they will have to start from scratch.

But he spoke much longer than normal defendants at that time.

HOLMES: You said how the judge let it go because he knew an appeal might be coming, but how does the judge reconcile itself and giving him a platform because you know there's media coverage and you know this guy is going to spew.

CASAREZ: That's right. I think the judge knew ahead of time that he knew what he was going to do and the judge made the decision to allow it. There wasn't a lot -- the prosecution could object, but they didn't. I think everybody was scared of an appeal, so they let him go.

But the judge finally stopped. In fact, he wanted to go longer, and the judge said "An appellate court can decide if I am wrong in stopping you now," and he didn't let him go any longer.

HOLMES: Appellate court might be coming down the road. But also people seemed to be scratching their heads on a couple things -- one, why he didn't get the death penalty, and secondly, why he would be eligible for parole hardly in his life.

He got this hard 50, which means 50 years down the road he might be eligible, but explain to us first why the death penalty wasn't on the table.

CASAREZ: I understand people's question. First of all, he was convicted of first-degree murder, premeditated murder, so why not the death penalty?

Kansas has a unique death penalty statute, and it's only in limited circumstances can you be eligible for the penalty, like you killed multiple victims, you kill a judicial officer, you kill a law enforcement officer, nothing fits.

In many states it's life day for day, that's it, if you are convicted for first-degree murder. Not in Kansas. It's a hard 50 you can ask for. Normally it's 25 years and then you go before the parole board. Prosecutors said, no, we want stronger punishment, the hard 50. They got it. But in 50 years he can go before the parole board. Now, he's 52 years old. That means he'll be 102 years old, probably not likely in this particular case.

HOLMES: Yes, and that was a very important point to make, by actually giving him life, it makes him eligible for parole sooner. I just wanted to make sure that point got out.

Also, one other thing, how are you seeing the reaction out there to this sentencing and especially from the abortion rights community?

CASAREZ: Well, you know, I think it's -- what they are -- the abortion rights community, here's what they're concerned about. There's a man in Florida, Reverend Paul Hill, who actually killed an abortion provider in 1994, I think. He was arrested. He was convicted. He was sentenced to death. He was executed in Florida.

Scott Roeder quoted him yesterday, said he believed in him, followed him, agreed with him. Will someone now look to Scott Roeder to believe in and want to follow? That's the concern of those that are pro-abortion at this point.

HOLMES: Wow. And that is some scary some and some scary stuff we saw in court yesterday. Jean Casarez, absolute pleasure to have you on today.

CASAREZ: Thank you, T.J. I feel the same.

HOLMES: Thank you so much.

CASAREZ: Thank you, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For time in the absence of an intervention, this totally can rip through somebody's life, and certainly in this sad case, rip through a family's life very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: What we're talking about here is a case in which parents let their baby starve to death while they raised another child, a virtual child on the Internet. That story is just ahead.

Also, you see this here? That's not some movie set. A lot of people looked at this and we were looking at the video, and people thought this was something out of "Lord of the Rings." But this is a real deal, a volcano. The amazing video -- but who would want to get up close and personal with a volcano? That's next on "The List."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: All right. We have our volcano list today as well. Chad Meyers here with me. We saw this video. CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Look at the name of the glacier. I need Vanna White to just buy a vowel. Please. You say it, because I'm not even going to go there.

HOLMES: I'm not going to embarrass myself. We're going to get that right before this show ends today. Somebody get on that. I'm making a promise. We'll get the name of this thing right before we get off the air.

MYERS: If you say it really fast --

HOLMES: But this is newer video we got. But this is better video because somebody decided to get a little closer to it.

MYERS: This is close. You can see the lava dome building. Every time that this lava shoots up some ash, the ash all around it now getting higher and higher. This is part -- and you can feel, from where they are you can feel the heat.

Absolutely. You know you go to the restaurant and you sit outside and they have those radiant heaters? That's what it feels like.

HOLMES: What kind of danger is this iReporter in right here? Is this going to do what it's doing?

MYERS: It's not like a -- well, yes, it could go off. But it's not like a tornado where it will turn direction. You know where it is.

HOLMES: But the lava won't start chasing you down the hill.

MYERS: It could. It does happen.

Also, the sulfur, the gases that are coming out of the ground are dangerous, so they had to be away from the winds. The wind had to be blowing the gases away.

But this is part of the Atlantic ridge. America and Europe used to be connected many years ago. The dinosaurs used to walk across. They wanted to go to dinner in Paris, they could walk from New York.

But now we're separated by the Atlantic Ocean. And along that white line that I drew, that's where the two continents are separating. And that line goes all the way up to the top. See that little island in the middle of that line? That's Iceland. And so the continents are spreading. The magma is allowed to come out of the bottom, into the cone, and then obviously make that beautiful, picturesque volcano.

HOLMES: And again our iReporters, every time we ask for iReporters, we ask with a disclaimer -- please don't endanger yourself as you're collecting those iReports. OK, sir, thank you so much.

Governors across the country, they're getting a message that telling them get out of office or else. That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)