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Rick's List
Dozens Killed in West Virginia Mine Explosion; Man Arrested for Threatening Senator Over Health Care Vote; Nicollette Sheridan Suing ABC; 2 Reuters Journalists Mistaken for Insurgents Killed by U.S. Forces
Aired April 06, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here's what's making THE LIST --
As the mourning begins, so do the questions.
MICHELLE, BENNY WILLINGHAM'S DAUGHTER: We want some answers. We don't know where my dad's body's at.
HOLMES: How did this happen? Why now? And what is the culture of coal country?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no love like the love among workers in coal mining.
HOLMES: When tragedy strikes, yes, we all pay attention, but who is minding the mines when the national spotlight turns away?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger. I would estimate there's about 20 of them.
HOLMES: Hovering over Iraq, pilots engage, taking out insurgents and innocents. Dramatic scenes reveal the fog of war. Retired General Mark Kimmitt joins us for a look at the rules of engagement.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I could just state this blank stare.
HOLMES: A bloody chapter in America's recent history.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These kids were 1 or 2 years old when this happened.
HOLMES: Why aren't students learning about the terror that took place in their own backyard?
And then the president announces a major shift in U.S. policy -- or is it? When would America deploy its nukes? We will drill down on what today's announcement means.
Plus, the lists you need to know about. Who is most intriguing. What is the news on Twitter? It's why Rick keeps a list. Your national conversation starts right now. (END VIDEOTAPE)
And good afternoon, everybody. I'm T.J. Holmes, sitting in today for Rick Sanchez.
And topping THE LIST right now, they are hoping and praying -- we're all hoping and praying right now -- for a miracle in the heart of coal country. We're talking about 30 miles south of Charleston, West Virginia, where a simple shift change turned into a nightmare.
You have heard about this by now, a massive explosion rocking the Upper Big Branch South mine. This was yesterday. It is the worst U.S. mining disaster we have seen in some 25 years. This is what we know right now. Twenty-five miners are confirmed dead. Four more are missing.
That's the hoping and praying for a miracle. People are hoping and praying at this hour that maybe those four that are unaccounted for could possibly have found a place to hunker down and survive and possibly are still alive.
Well, this hour, we're going to be getting into many facets of this story. Our Chad Myers is going to give us a step-by-step look at what might have caused this explosion, give you more of a visual of exactly what this rescue effort is like.
Also, Homer Hickam, he's a former miner and author who grew up in the area. He knows the people there all so well.
And also there's a long record of safety violations people are starting to talk about now. And Ellen Smith -- she is the editor of "Mine Safety and Health News" -- will be along to tell us about this mine's safety record.
And, also, we have heard today from President Obama, as well as the West Virginia governor. President Obama, he expressed his condolences a little earlier today at an Easter prayer breakfast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I spoke with Governor Manchin of West Virginia last night and told him that the federal government stands ready to offer whatever assistance is needed in this rescue effort.
So I would ask that the faithful who've gathered here this morning pray for the safe return of the missing, the men and women who've put their lives on the line to save them, and the souls of those who have been lost in this tragic accident.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And you heard the president there refer to the West Virginia governor, Governor Joe Manchin. Now, he has been talking to the families this morning, and he -- even though a lot of people are hoping and praying, he doesn't want them to hold out for any false hope.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JOE MANCHIN (D), WEST VIRGINIA: We know the names of 18 people that are still there. We don't know the fate of four, and three were in a section where it's an area we couldn't get to and couldn't check. So that's -- that's the situation that we're in. And that's -- that's the anxiety that people are having right now, and it's just very difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: All right, you hear the governor there.
What about the families as well in all of this? Right now, they are starved for information. They are wondering what's going on, what's going on with the rescue efforts, and certainly going to be wondering exactly what happened in that mine.
They also want the mine owner to talk to them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHELLE MCKENNEY, DAUGHTER OF VICTIM: We don't know where my dad's body's at. We want some answers, and we want them today. We want answers. We're very upset.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, the governor did come out a little while and did say that, in fact, some of the mine officials have been talking to some of the families that are there closer on the scene, but still saying that's not good enough. All these families need to be better informed.
Our Brooke Baldwin is there in West Virginia for us.
Brooke, give us the update right now. And try to give people some perspective of just how slow a process this is, trying to get to where -- still people holding out hope maybe four miners might be in there hunkered down.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Maybe, maybe four miners. Four miners at least, at last count, are missing.
You know, you talk about this processed of getting deep inside this mine, T.J., it is tedious. It is painstakingly long. I have new information, sort of anecdotally, from a congressman regarding sort of -- let's go there and say the animosity between some of these families and Massey Energy.
But first allow me to just set the scene for you. We are in what is beautiful coal country, southern West Virginia, along a river. Here's a mountains. Here's a massive coal silo. This is part of this mine that we're talking about here. We are about eight miles out from where that specific explosion took place yesterday. Who's here? State mine officials, federal mine officials, MSHA, and, as you can see, a whole lot of us, members of the media, including many members internationally. Univision is here. Everyone is talking about this story.
Anecdotally, T.J., here's the new information. One of our CNN producers today talked to a senior Congressman Nick Joe Rahall here from West Virginia, and he said there was a meeting last night between Massey Energy's CEO, Don Blankenship, and these family members, who, by the way, are three miles away from me, basically holed up, not talking to us so much.
In this meeting -- I want to quote -- one of the family members said, according to the congressman, to Don Blankenship: "Did you make enough money off of our loved ones? Do you know how to say sorry?"
Essentially, from what we understand, that exchange escalated verbally. Police had to intervene. That is how high tensions are running here in Raleigh County, West Virginia.
Just to give you some perspective, we're also hearing, because of these escalating tensions, there's an additional police presence. Police are here from several hours out, just precautionary.
Secondarily, in terms of, T.J., the rescue mission, which you mentioned priority really number one right now, take a look with me. Again, here's the mountain. It is massive. It is steep. The mine is huge.
What they have had to do is take a bulldozer. And this, they have done now. They have taken a bulldozer, and they have bulldozed up one side of this steep mountain. They have located what they believe is the location above one of these emergency routes, this rescue chamber, where possibly these four miners might be holed up inside.
The next process, the next step, is taking this drill, and drilling 1,200 feet deep in the mountain, deep inside this coal mine, where they will then potentially place microphones, teeny, tiny microphones, where they may be able to hear some sounds, some movement, T.J., some sign of life.
But we're hearing that process, just to drill the hole, may be two days.
HOLMES: Brooke, on the point you made, I want to get back to what you were talking about, the families. And right now you know emotions are high, and certainly they're starved for answers.
But, before this accident, before this took place, do you get a sense of what this -- this mining company meant to this area, what the relationship was like with the miners in this company and the community and this company? Was there a good relationship before this?
BALDWIN: You know, it's a good question. And the honest answer is, it's kind of a mixed bag.
Some of the people here in the town say this is the only way of survival in terms of any kind of income. It's coal mining. And so they're appreciative, let's say, of this massive company, Massey Energy, right, and their 44 surface and underground mines they have in some four states.
Others, as you can tell, because of this situation, because of certain other situations, fatal situations involving Massey Energy, to quote one woman who I met about an hour ago, she said that Massey Energy is more or less putting profit over people -- so, again, really, T.J., a mixed bag.
HOLMES: All right, our Brooke Baldwin there on the scene for us in Marsh Fork, West Virginia. We're going to be talking to you again, Brooke. Thank you so much.
And like she mentioned, it could take days to possibly get to the area where the miners might be, could take days to possibly get them out, but how did this whole thing possibly happen in the first place? What was going on in that mine? What's going on now to try to get to them? Our Chad Myers is going to show us what may have led to this explosion. He's coming up next. He's been looking in to this for us. We will check in with him in just a moment.
Also, some chilling video:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got about, oh, four Humvees out along --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me know when you --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: This was leaked online from inside a war zone, two Reuters journalists in Baghdad mistaken for insurgents and shot dead by U.S. forces. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: We do want to tell you about some information we are just getting in. There has been an arrest made involving a threat that was made to a U.S. senator over the health care bill.
You remember so many members of Congress were reporting quite frankly some nasty e-mails and some nasty messages that came, but some of them went a little too far, this one involving Senator Patty Murray of the state of Washington, a Democrat, who, of course, she supported the health care legislation. She did get some threats, but she was threatened in particular, according to federal authorities, by this one man, Charlie Wilson. You see his name at least up there, a 64-year-old man. After a series of threatening phone calls he made to her office, and some of those phones call said -- quote -- said she had a target on her back, and, also, according to the indictment says -- and I'm quoting here, again -- "I want to 'blank' kill you."
So, that, like I just mentioned, some of these things, some people, of course, are upset and complained to their congress men and congress women and also the senators, but some of them went too far and they got threatening. Well, now we are knowing about a particular an arrest that has been made for a man by the name of Charles Wilson, 64, of Washington for threatening Senator Patty Murray.
Over here now with Chad Myers, who is always gracious enough to help us out sometimes and break these things down a little better.
A lot of people trying to understand where this thing is --
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes.
HOLMES: -- how they're trying to get to them, how deep they are. So, it's good to have an illustration like this.
MYERS: Talking about the mine.
HOLMES: Talking about the mine, of course.
MYERS: Talking about West Virginia. Unlike Oklahoma, people that live in the Plains have literally no idea how rugged it is in this area.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: And Brooke was just saying how they literally had to make a new road to try to find to get to the place that they could put a drill bit in the ground to drill.
This is what it looks like. This is the Google representation of the topography of this area, so there are roads that go up into the strip mine areas of the mine itself. And you can begin to see that up here. But there are no roads going north and south and east and west.
Every -- all the roads follow the creek bed or the riverbeds. And so what they're doing now, they're literally -- and they had to do this back in the Utah mine as well. They had to make a road to the top of the mountain. And they go to the top because you want to drill down as -- want to drill down as straight as you can.
They want to go -- they want to go straight down.
HOLMES: Straight down.
MYERS: They don't want to make any kind of GPS angles, OK, let's see if we can get it this way. They want to know exactly -- they know the GPS location of the room that they hope that they're in. They want to go right to the top of the GPS location and they want to drill straight down.
HOLMES: Straight down.
MYERS: And so that's what they're trying to do now. And they're doing this to try to relieve some of the pressure down there. There's a lot of methane comes out of every mine, and that's part of the problem of every mine. And also Tom Foreman brought up a great piece yesterday about coal dust. I want you to go to YouTube --
HOLMES: OK.
MYERS: -- and put in dust explosion. Just search that. And there are hundreds, hundreds of examples of how dust can explode.
You can take coffee creamer, and if you put a flame up to coffee creamer, it won't light on fire.
HOLMES: OK.
MYERS: You take that coffee creamer in a bicycle pump or something and you aerosolize it, and it flies in the air, it will literally explode. Don't do it at home. OK?
Just look at the video and know that other people have done it. It's dangerous. Dust explodes because the surface area of the dust particle is so great compared to just the surface area of a clump of coal.
HOLMES: And that's what they're talking about here that may have happened. Right now, they are pointing to a methane explosion. If all that dust in the air, all that stuff ignites, you are talking about a big boom.
MYERS: The first thing that happened, according to one of the sources, that there was a carbon monoxide alert.
HOLMES: Alert that went on, yes.
MYERS: Right. So that tells me that there was some type of maybe a ventilation issue. So, they were going to look at this carbon monoxide alarm and why it was alarming, why it was going off. And that's when the explosion took place.
A buildup of something, a buildup either of coal dust, buildup of methane, buildup of something explosive, and a fire, a spark, anything could have took it off.
HOLMES: This is a good way to look at it, because you're right. People in other parts of the country -- you just kind of said Oklahoma -- but you do not -- don't have a good idea of that terrain.
They are literally having to build a new road, carve a new road in the side of a mountain.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: I grew up in Nebraska and you could build a new road in Nebraska in about three minutes, because everything goes flat and straight.
But just let me stop this and I will just bring this down and we will do a little bit of a three-dimensionality to it, and the whole area here, you build these things, you build these coal mines in valleys because they are easy to get to. You can drive -- you can make your road along where the creek bed is, where the stream is.
But you can't build up these things, and that's where they have to go to try to get these guys --
HOLMES: Up there.
MYERS: -- get this drill into the ground and then drill 1,200 feet. That doesn't take an hour.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: And they're saying that might -- that process could get going. Maybe they can reach them by Wednesday, by tomorrow night, but this work continues 24 hours a day.
Chad, we appreciate the illustration.
MYERS: Sure, T.J.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: Thanks so much, buddy.
Coming up next here: A lot of you all know actress Nicollette Sheridan, you know, the desperate housewife? Well, she left the show in a body bag, you may remember, her character did, anyway, after trying to escape her evil husband, driving her car into a telephone pole. She gets electrocuted, pretty dramatic stuff.
But now there's a $20 million lawsuit that says there might have been another reason she left the show. That's just ahead.
Also, speaking of people leaving, is he going anywhere? Michael Steele, been in the news for all the wrong reasons, it seems like, lately, could he be the next to leave at the Republican National Committee? Already, a couple others have left. Our Jessica Yellin, she's not going anywhere. She's right here with us. We are going to be talking to her right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, welcome back to RICK'S LIST. I'm T.J. Holmes, sitting in today.
We have been talking a lot, of course, about the West Virginia tragedy. We do know 25 are dead after that mine explosion. We do know another four right now are unaccounted for. Everybody is hoping and praying that maybe those four were able to get to a spot and maybe are just hunkering down and waiting to be rescued.
Now, we are not getting all the names just yet of who these who these men were in that particular mine, but we are starting to see, see and hear some of the names and the stories of those who were in there.
I'm going to share with you now some of the names and the stories we do have. We do know that, in West Virginia, really, mining is -- goes through generations and generations of families.
Timmy Davis, 51-year-old, died in that mine. Now, alongside Timmy Davis in that mine were two of his family members, two of his nephews. Josh Napper, 27 years old, and Cory Davis. Now, what are the chances, a lot of people would be saying out there, wherever you may work, that two of your family members work right alongside with you and in this case happened to die right alongside him as well.
And one other I want to share with you is that of Benny Willingham, 62 years old. Now, he has worked in the mining business for some 30 years. The last 17, he spent with this particular organization, this particular place that owns the mine. Massey is the name of the group. He was five weeks away from retiring and just about a month away from taking his wife on a vacation, a cruise, to the Virgin Islands next month.
Those are some of the names and the stories of people who died in that mine that certainly bring this story home.
We will continue, of course, to follow that story, a lot of fast- moving updates.
We told you that the president, President Obama, spoke about it a little earlier today. Well, the White House put something else about it. He sent his condolences, of course, during that prayer breakfast, but he also -- they do have a Twitter account as well at the White House, and this is from the president, saying, "Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and the friends of the workers who lost their lives in West Virginia in that mining accident yesterday."
Also want to let you know that the governor of West Virginia, Governor Manchin, we're expecting him to give another press conference at 5:00 Eastern time, about an hour-and-a-half away from how. When that happens, we will certainly bring that to you live, maybe get another update about how that whole process is going of trying to reach, reach that particular spot where those miners are believed to be.
We're going to turn back to some more politics now.
And you remember this story that just won't go away, it seems, about that bondage club junket for donors. Well, that has now claimed the job of a top Republican, it seems. In fact, he's the right-hand man of the RNC chairman, Michael Steele. Ken McKay was Steele's chief of staff. McKay is now gone. Steele issued a statement through the RNC. Going to read from it now. And he's trying to really make everybody feel a little better about the leadership and what's happening there, and read it to you now. It says -- quote -- "Leadership requires that I can safely assure you, our donors and the American people that our mission is what drives every dollar we spend, every phone call we make, every e- mail we send and every event we organize. The buck stops with me. That is why I have made this change in my management team, and why I am confident about going forward to November with renewed focus and energy" -- end quote.
Today, though, the chorus is getting louder, Republicans saying these RNC shenanigans are really killing the party.
And that's how we're going to tee up today's the list for Yellin, Jessica Yellin, our national political correspondent.
Hello. How are you today, Jessica?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi. Doing well. Good to see you, T.J.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: This is the story it seems that just keeps on giving. He hasn't been able quite yet to quiet this thing down. It seems like every day there's something new and big to cover.
YELLIN: That's true.
And the problem for Steele especially is that -- I should let you know we are having a bit of a fire alarm behind me. So, don't -- ignore it if you hear it on air.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: Do you need to go, though, Jessica? Do you need to get out of the building?
YELLIN: No. It's just a drill.
HOLMES: OK.
YELLIN: It's just a drill, we have been assured, but it's excellent for live TV.
HOLMES: All right. We will endure. Go ahead.
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: All right.
The bottom line here is that these should be easy days for the RNC. They have got an unpopular Democratic Congress, a president who generates partisan antipathy, and a fired-up base, and instead of focusing on that to raise money, these endless headlines are getting in the way.
We hear about a bondage club, polo matches, a leaked RNC memo attacking donors, staff and supporters fleeing now in shame or protest. And the bottom line is for a long time, Steele has not had the support of establishment Republicans in Washington, but all this news that we're talking about now, T.J., is the kind of drip, drip, drip that begins to infect the perception outside D.C. And that's a huge problem for Michael Steele.
HOLMES: OK. And, like I said, the news keeps coming. Now, this might not have been his right-hand man, but we're getting -- I think you were the one that brought this to our attention -- this resignation letter, another on, from Sean Mahoney, who was a member of the RNC.
And something here just jumps out. In his resignation letter, he said he's stepping down, but he says the recent scandal is why he's doing it involving the funds being used at a small crowd -- strip club. He said, "It's the straw that broke the camel's back."
YELLIN: Right.
HOLMES: "The scandal represents a pattern of unaccountable and irresponsible mishaps that ought to unnerve every fiscal conservative."
Is this drumbeat -- well, we know it's a drumbeat, but is this thing going to continue to get louder? What do we see Michael Steele doing besides sending out an e-mail really to members that is going to quiet this thing down so they can get back to work?
YELLIN: Well, he's been purging some staff. He's been making changes internally in how they monitor these sort of expenditures and what they allow. But it does seem he's going to have to go further, maybe do some sit-down interviews, maybe answer more questions, maybe publicly state where they're going to spend all their money.
It's a very tough time for him to push back, because, as you know, the more interviews he does, it seems the more gaffes he seems to generate. So, the standard P.R. M.O., which is to go out and be an open book, doesn't always work so well for him.
HOLMES: On that point of money you just made -- and, again, Mahoney here in his resignation letter, talking about that $2,000 spent at that so-called bondage club, he said, I don't care if the $2,000 was spent at a strip club or a family pizza parlor. It's a matter of principle. It's all about raising money and what you do with your money.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: So, what is the RNC doing with their money? It seems like a lot of people don't think they're doing the right thing. But how much money are they bringing in? Do we know yet? Aren't we supposed to be getting some new numbers? YELLIN: Yes. We're expecting some new numbers from the RNC for last month. And we expect them to be good, think that right after the passage of health care reform, they will have an enormous outpouring of support probably by -- from their base.
So, that will help. That will help Steele. But a major part of his problem is, as you point out, the spending. So, he might raise the money, but where is he going to put it? And he has another problem, which is that establishment Republicans here in D.C. have lost so much faith in him, that they're actually telling donors that they would prefer that they give money to other Republican organizations, which minimizes the RNC's influence.
So think about the Tea Party and other offshoot groups that we hear about a lot more these days. They're raising money, and all that is influence being directed away from the RNC, away from Michael Steele. That's not the scenario of an effective leader right now.
HOLMES: No. And then he brought up the other day, as we saw, the issue of race, saying maybe he has -- his room for error was less than some, suggesting race, and that caused a big hubbub as well.
Jessica, you never run out of things to talk about, and he certainly seems to keep giving them to a lot of people.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: Jessica, always good to see you. And get out of the building, I guess, if you need to.
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: We're safe.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: -- the fire alarm. All right, we will talk to you again here soon.
YELLIN: Thanks, T.J. Bye.
HOLMES: Well, the president announcing a major change to our nuclear weapons policy, but what does it actually mean for you and me? That's ahead.
Also, did the creator of "Desperate Housewives" attack Nicollette Sheridan? That's why she says she left the show. That's next on the LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, this is topping our list of incredible weather- related pictures. This is flooding in the streets of Brazil. It's killed nearly 80 people. But nearly 300 have had to be rescued due to high floodwaters sweeping away cars, as you see here, mudslides also threatening Rio. And the rain is expected to continue through tomorrow.
Now I want to check another list, the list of most intriguing people. This is our most intriguing person in the news today. The lady is desperate and a housewife. She doesn't mind me calling her that. After all, that's the name of the hit TV show that made her pretty famous.
She's suing, though, the ABC network and the creator of that show for $20 million for what she claims went on when the cameras were not rolling, physical assault, battery, gender violence, wrongful termination, discrimination.
According to TMZ, she says the show's creator hit her in the head and face after she asked him about the script. Then they kill her character off the show. Sounds like a storyline. It's not. It's her. "Housewives" fans, you know her as Edie. She's Nicollette Sheridan, and she's taking her Hollywood treatment to court.
And that's intriguing.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're engaging.
(GUNFIRE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Two Reuters journalists in Baghdad shot dead by U.S. forces -- they were mistaken for insurgents. Some chilling video -- we're going to show you more of this just ahead.
Also, why does a boat that's just coasting along Miami's Key Biscayne just go up in flames? Wow. Look at that. That's next as well.
And some of you all, like me, you want to be on this show. See what I did, just call in 1-877-4CNN-TOUR. Maybe they'll let you anchor tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
HOLMES: Now, anybody knows the first day of your new job can be really nerve-racking, and first day on the job tops our "Photos of the Day." A list of our best pictures and video.
(MUSIC)
HOLMES: And this starts off our "Photos of the Day."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Swing, a strike, go to right. Welcome to the show!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Welcome to the show, young fella. That is Braves' rookie Jason Hayworth. He hit a three-run homer at opening day in Atlanta. Now, that's awesome. This is his first -- this is his first Major League at-bat and he hits a home run. Well, maybe you're not so impressed by that. OK. It was his first swing of the bat in a Major League game, and he knocks that thing out of the park, some 442 feet. Welcome to the show, young fella.
Also, check out our next "Picture of the Day." Smoke on the water, two boaters just barely escaped when their boat went up in flames in Key Biscayne, Florida. Look at this. This was a gorgeous yacht.
Now, firefighters, you can see them, giving it their best shot. They drenched the boat with foam to no avail. Burned right down to the waterline, and then sank. No word yet on what started that fire.
And this in Platte City, Missouri. Demolition crews took out a 51-year-old bridge. Now, the dust, of course, you know, it takes it a while to settle, and then the cleanup begins, and then what? Construction. Plans are under way for a safer and, of course, much more expensive bridge. The new bridge is going to cost a cool million dollars, and in some 50 years we'll be showing you video of them blowing up that one, too.
(MUSIC)
HOLMES: Now, she was only 2 months old when she was pulled from the rubble in Haiti. She was flown to Florida. The Haitian couple had to take a DNA test to prove that the baby is theirs. Why didn't officials just take their word for it? That's just ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see your element. You got about four Humvees out along --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, we've been telling you about this video. Really some chilling stuff, that shows just how dangerous a war zone can be, and shows you really that it's not perfect. U.S. forces mistakenly shot two journalists there that were covering the war. How could this happen? It's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: This is never an easy thing to do in television. We have some video we need to share with you that is extremely sobering to watch. We're showing you some battlefield footage, and you're going to see in this footage. You can see men being killed -- killed by American military troops in Baghdad.
Now, we are showing you this and talking about this today, because this footage is some of the most eye-opening and in-your-face example that we have seen of just how imperfect war in Iraq can be. Just -- it's an imperfect reality, and how easily something can go so terribly wrong. We know there's so much conversation this footage is going to spark, and, of course, on this show, they're all about conversation.
So, one more thing before we get this -- to this video. It was leaked on the Internet by a Web site that's known for releasing classified information.
Now, it's June, 2007, in this video, insurgent attacks and street fighting at a peak in Baghdad. An American ground unit pinned down by fighters with small arms and RPGs, two Apache attack helicopters arrive as air cover to take a look. The gun cameras are rolling, radio chatter is being recorded and then they see a crowd of men in the street.
That's the setup. Let's show it to you now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hotel two-six, this is crazy horse one, I have individuals with weapons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) radio?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he's got a weapon, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hotel two-six, crazy horse one eight, have five to six individuals with AK-47s. Request permission to engage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger that. We have no personnel east of our position. So, you are free to engage, over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. We'll be engaging.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going -- I can't get them now because they're behind that building.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Bushmaster element --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got an RPG.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, we got a guy with an RPG.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. No hold on. Let's come around.
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Behind buildings right now from our point of view. OK. We're going to come around.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hotel two-six, have eyes on individual with RPG. Getting ready to fire. We won't --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we got a guy shooting. And now, he's behind the building.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come around.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Negative, he was right in front of the Brad, about, there, one o'clock. I haven't seen anything since then.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once you get on them, just open them on. All right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see your element got about four Humvees out along --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, firing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me know when you got them. Let's shoot. Light them all up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zero two traffic --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, fire.
(GUN FIRING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: OK. We stopped it right there for a reason. You saw, you heard the fire. They fired. They opened fire on that street, on that crowd of men that were gathered there -- killed most of them.
We have all of this. It's kind of a long tape, at least 17, 18 minutes of tape. We have that. We're going to show that to you as well a little later.
But the helicopter crews didn't know something, that two of the men in that crowd were working for the "Reuters" news agency. It was a photographer and his driver. They died there as well.
Now, this is part of the conversation we're going to have. Was that shooting warranted? The U.S. Army has commented on the record, and they say the crews were clear to fire under the situation and rules of engagement.
Well, how about those civilians who were with the insurgents? They were apparently walking with armed fighters in a combat zone. Where's the clear right and wrong in the thick fog of war?
This is not necessarily a philosophical discussion. This is a deadly reality and we see it on the videotape. My guest in a few moments is a former army general who served in Iraq. I will put all of these issues to him for our conversation. I'm also going to play for you the gunship camera footage of those men who were gunned down, who were being killed. You'll see it here. You're going to hear it as well. That conversation is coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And as I looked up, 250 or so high school students, I could just see this blank stare, like I was almost speaking a foreign language. I mean, they had no idea what I was talking about when I mentioned the Oklahoma City bombing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Yes, it was a terror plot that rocked the nation. Oklahomans famously promised they would always remember. So, why aren't their students learning about the terror in their own backyard?
Also, at least 25 miners were killed in West Virginia yesterday, the deadliest mining disaster in the U.S. in the past 25 years. We're going to talk to a former coal miner whose story was made into a movie. He's up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Welcome back to THE LIST, everybody.
Here's one of the questions we are raising this hour: have we reached a turning point in the nuclear age? As of this day, are we turning back a clock? Listen with me to the defense secretary, Robert Gates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: This NPR determined that the United States will not develop new nuclear warheads. Programs to extend the lives of warheads will use only nuclear components based on previously-tested designs and will not support new military missions or provide for new military capabilities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, Gates said the goal of that and other steps announced today at the Pentagon is a nuclear-free world. Yes, a truly nuclear-free world? We'll get to the bottom of this a little later.
I want to turn back to the story that everybody is kind of keeping an eye on right now, and certainly hoping and praying that possibly four miners who were still unaccounted for in West Virginia could possibly still be alive and come out OK. The community is holding each other up right now, for the slim hope for those four. We do know that 25 miners are confirmed dead.
Let's turn to Homer Hickam. He's a former coal miner. His book, "Rocket Boys," about his childhood in southern West Virginia, those coal fields, made into a movie, "October Sky."
Sir, thank you for being here with us today. Let me just initial get your reaction when you heard about this accident. What were your thoughts about the accident itself, but, also, when you heard about the particular company, Massey?
HOMER HICKAM, FORMER MINER: Well, you know, T.J., when I heard about this, my first reaction was one of disbelief. I thought we were beyond this in this country. The mining industry is one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country, if not the world.
We had this accident in Sago in 2006 where we lost a dozen miners because of a methane explosion. We put in all kinds of safety precautions.
Since then, we have -- we even inspect these mines even more heavily. Yet now, we've lost twice of the number, maybe more than twice the number of miners that we did at Sago.
This is still a very safe industry. Considering what they do, by the way. But, still, any loss of life is just not acceptable.
HOLMES: So, Homer, what happened if we talk about, like you just did, all of this regulation, and you would know how highly regulated it is and then the other steps put in place after the Sago mine disaster -- is that why you're surprised? It just seems like so many things are in place that things like this should not be happening.
HICKAM: Yes, I'm absolutely surprised by this. I know that MSHA has paid a lot of attention to this particular mine. That's one of the reasons why there have been so many violations cited and so many fines put on them, is because MSHA's been paying a whole lot of attention to this coal mine.
Now, this mine operates in very difficult conditions. The coal that they're mining exudes buckets of methane all the time. It has a roof that's -- that apparently is pretty hard to support.
We may be looking at a series of events that all came together at the same time rather than one isolated incident that caused this -- this awful accident.
HOLMES: Well, you talk about how highly regulated the industry is. Are miners themselves, who certainly depend on this industry, have for generations, who depend on these companies being in their backyards for their livelihood -- are they prone to constantly report the violations they see?
HICKAM: Oh, yes. Every individual coal miner knows that all he or she has to do is speak up to MSHA and there is nothing to keep them from going to an MSHA inspector or the MSHA office and that coal mine will be instantly closed down.
Now, miners these days are also very highly-trained individuals. My last novel was called "Red Helmet" which gives you the idea, the perspective of a novice coal miner, all of the training that they have to go through in order to become a coal miner. They're very high- tech.
Probably, some of the miners that were killed in this explosion were operating computers when that happened, because this is a very advanced form of mining called long-wall mining. So, these miners, they know that they can close a coal mine down just as easily as an MSHA inspector.
So, again, I -- I'm just taken aback by this, an accident, a methane explosion, of this size in a modern American coal mine. This should not happen. Now, we've got to get to the bottom of it.
HOLMES: Not happen. But you talk about reporting and they know they can get one shut down, but does that kind of strain the relationship, a relationship, quite frankly, that is needed between the community and that particular mining company. If they get them shut down, doesn't that hurt the livelihood of those particular miners?
HICKAM: Yes, and that's human nature to say, oh, well, I better not report this --
HOLMES: Yes.
HICKAM: -- because it might cause my neighbors to be out of work for a while, so, yes. Most coal miners don't -- they don't tend to run and tattle on things that are going on. They try to solve it themselves, and sometimes, that's not necessarily a good idea.
HOLMES: So, that's a bit problematic. There needs to be more reporting.
HICKAM: There does. And I think that that needs to be part of their training. That needs to be drilled into them.
It's very much like NASA, which I used to work for. At NASA, anybody can stop a launch just by standing up and saying, hey, we got a problem here and everything is scrubbed.
So, coal miners -- this needs to get into their consciousness that if they see anything wrong, that there's nothing going to happen to them bad if they stand up and report it.
HOLMES: Last thing here. Any accident, any loss of life, one loss of life that is too many -- but on some levels, would you say that mining, whether it be like, you can compare it to maybe air travel. You just accept that every once in a while, there's going to be an accident, something's going to go wrong and there's going to be a loss of life. Is this the mindset really that miners have? And unfortunately, maybe we should all have, that this is just one of those professions that every once in a while, there's going to be something and somebody's going to get killed?
HICKAM: Well, miners know that they work in a hazardous profession. There's no question about that. But, again, they're very highly-trained. This is the world that they live in. They go and work in it every day. And so, certainly, they don't think necessarily that anything is going to happen or they probably wouldn't go in there.
But they -- it's in the back of their mind all the time that something could go wrong. And the smart coal miner -- and there's a lot of smart coal miners down there -- pay attention constantly to everything because, again, sometimes an accident like this is a result of a chain of incidents rather than one particular incident.
So, yes, we're going to learn an awful lot from this accident. It's a heck of a way to have to learn it, though. And I just hope that we never, ever have another accident like this in the American mining industry. We definitely shouldn't.
I mean, Chinese coal miners working in the same type of coal mines. We lose over 2,000 Chinese coal miners every year. Last year, we lost 18. Now, we've lost 21, maybe more. This is just unacceptable in the American mining industry.
HOLMES: Well, Homer, we thank you so much for you taking the time out and certainly having your expertise and putting some of this stuff in perspective. Homer Hickam, sir, thank you so much. I'm sure we'll be talking to you again in the coming days.
HICKAM: Thank you for having me, T.J.
HOLMES: We do want to remind our viewers as well. There's a 5:00 p.m. news conference, 5:00 Eastern, with the West Virginia governor, Joe Manchin, expecting some kind of an update. So, we'll certainly be covering that when it does happen.
Also, a baby near death was pulled from the rubble in Haiti, and then flown to the U.S. A Haitian couple said the baby was theirs, but some said they were just trying to get to the United States. Elizabeth Cohen next with the emotional reunion.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, a Haitian baby pulled from the rubble of January's earthquake is back with her family today. Baby Jenny has been separated from her family in the quake. Well, she had been and that's over now. They didn't know she had been brought to the U.S. for medical treatment after her rescue. Today the search is over.
CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has been following this step by step, has been following this search. And we've got some good news to report, an emotional reunion.
Hey there, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes. What happened in this situation is that this baby was brought to the hospital where I was stationed in Haiti in January. This baby spent four days in the rubble alone and survived but barely. She was about to die.
They whisked her off to the pediatric intensive care unit at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, and they thought she was an orphan. And then this couple surfaced in Haiti and said, no, she's our daughter.
And, T.J., it took three months, but finally, they proved that they were the parents. They got all the passports and visas and everything they needed. The reunion happened yesterday. I was in the room. I'll tell you, T.J., it's one of the most emotional scenes I've ever seen. And I'm going to talk more about it and have the pictures of the reunion on "ANDERSON COOPER" tonight.
HOLMES: All right. And you talk about this DNA testing. That was the key that made this all happen, is that right?
COHEN: That's right. And it would sound easy. You know, in this country we say, well, why don't we just give them a DNA test and just be done with it and answer the question? To get a DNA test down to Haiti proved to be a bit challenging.
And there was this sort of discussion about was the baby a ward of the state or the ward of the federal government, and the baby had to get a lawyer appointed and the parents had to get a lawyer appointed. It ended up being way more complicated than anyone thought for a long time.
HOLMES: All right. Elizabeth Cohen, I know we got a whole lot more on this story. We're going to be able to see that this evening on "AC360," but we're seeing the pictures here. Baby Jenny looks great.
But, Elizabeth Cohen, I know you've been following the story, probably emotional moment for you as well. But thank you and we'll see you a little later.
COHEN: OK. Thanks, T.J.
HOLMES: Now, we're going to have the latest also on this mining disaster, the deadliest in the U.S. in the past 25 years. We have confirmed now at least through officials saying that 25 miners are dead. But still holding out hope and praying that possibly four others who are unaccounted for might be hunkering down and waiting to be rescued. That's next.
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