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Rick's List

Volcanic Ash Disrupts Flights; Goldman Sachs Under Fire; Courts Rule Church Group Protests of Soldier's Funeral Protected Speech; Canadian Woman's Son Held in U.S. Foster Care Against Her Will

Aired April 16, 2010 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Let me tell you what we're going to be bringing you, all the stories, and most of them are very video- intensive on this day. Let's look at the LIST.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making the LIST today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To me, they are the American Taliban.

SANCHEZ: Strong words. He lost his daughter, and now he has to face these people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Plot rebellion against the commandments of God.

SANCHEZ: His hurt vs. their right to protest.

This boy went on a trip two years ago. Police detained him. His mom hasn't been allowed to get him back since. Why? What did she do wrong? I will speak to the mom live.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the land of fire and ice, after all.

SANCHEZ: Where there's smoke, there's fire, or ash. We're live from Iceland, where a big volcano is stranding fliers across the globe.

And should a little girl play this adult role?

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: Wow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: All right, here's what's topping the LIST right now. I'm Rick Sanchez.

There's this volcano that's erupting in Iceland. We have been telling you about this for the past 48 hours. It's gone from a nature story now, to a travel headache story, to an economic story, now a political story as well, and I'm going to take you through each of those phases. We are going to cover all of this for you.

And, first, I want you to see this report from CNN's Gary Tuchman. Gary's been there. He's been following this thing. How he got in is part of his story. First, let's pick up some of Tuch's story. Here it is.

Hit that, Rog.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: When we arrived in Iceland this morning, we never thought we would be able to stand so close to the volcano. But this is it. This is the mountain where the volcano is.

The volcano erupted underneath a glacier, and that's why you see these flooded agricultural fields here, ice (INAUDIBLE) rocks, mud. Many of the farms have been flooded. Some roads have been buckled, but nobody has been killed, nobody has been, and the problems in Iceland are relatively slight.

And that's because the Reykjavik Airport in the capital, three other international airports in the country all open because they're to the west of the volcano. To the east, that is where the problems are. (INAUDIBLE) mountain. To the east, they're blowing them in that direction. That's where mainland Europe is.

And that's why they're having so many problems. Right now, the road is closed behind me, because that's where the danger is. (INAUDIBLE) in Iceland are used to volcanoes. This one, by the way, the last time it went off was in 1821, almost 190 years ago. And when it did at that time, when it erupted, it lasted two years. They're sure hoping it doesn't last two years this time.

This is Gary Tuchman, CNN, in Hvolsvollur, Iceland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: You know, what's interesting about this is, it's both a macro story and a micro story. The micro story in many ways is just what you were watching Tuchman describe to us, but that's a small version.

When you see it from the top, and you see just how much of an effect it's actually having on parts of Europe, that's when you try to really understand, or begin to understand, the significance of this story.

Let me go over to Chad Myers now. Chad's going to be taking us through this. He's got a series of maps that are going to explain just why this is as significant as it is.

Chad, this is your baby, man. Take it away.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You have to understand the size of this airspace now that has volcanic ash in it. And they know that because of satellite pictures looking down. They can see how this ash has been dispersed.

There's not a plane anywhere through here. Here's Poland. The president is going to try to get to Poland for the funeral. And then all the way back up here to Norway, Sweden, and the U.K., not a plane to be found. There are a few planes making their way across here across into Portugal and then also even into Italy, and I believe there's probably even more planes here than there even would be on a regular day, because people are trying to get in and out farther south than where this area is not affected.

That will change, I believe, because there is some ash out here. That ash will swing around a low-pressure center and head into the Mediterranean over the next couple of days.

Rick, this is just a widespread nightmare for people trying to get back either into the U.K., back to the U.S., and, in fact, marathon runners that were trying to fly through Europe to get to the Boston Marathon. That will be Monday, whether they miss it or not.

SANCHEZ: Well, But here's the deal. Look, there have been volcanoes before.

MYERS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: There are active volcanoes in parts of Central America. I climbed one once in Guatemala.

MYERS: Sure.

SANCHEZ: Why is this particular volcano not only creating such a big effect in terms of geography, but lasting so long?

MYERS: Well, there are volcanic advisories on the FAA's Web site all the time.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MYERS: I mean, they exist either for Mount Redoubt in Alaska -- any time any volcano puffs some ash into the sky anyway across the globe, Kuala Lumpur and anywhere, if a puff of ash goes into the sky, that airspace is closed on a daily basis.

We don't cover it because it may be in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and planes can fly around it. What has happened this time is that we have now taken the volcanic and pushed it into a very populated area, which is all of Northern Europe. What happened yesterday, it came across the U.K. and then down, and it swung into this low-pressure center, some of these ash particles spinning around the low now. That low's going to have to go across all of Europe, so we may have to slow down some of the airspace in here eventually during the week to come.

But what has happened today, this part of the low pressure and the jet stream has cut off. It has stopped doing that, and now the ash is blowing into Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and also into the Urals, so Northern Europe over here and then all of what would be Russia and Siberia over here.

SANCHEZ: And just to be clear, this is not a problem because the planes can't go through the smoke. This is a problem because there's some -- I believe it's called silicon, right, in that smoke that literally could bring a plane down. Can you can you take us through that explanation? MYERS: Do you remember back in geology class, like in sixth grade, you would -- they would should you a piece of glass called obsidian?

SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm.

MYERS: It was black glass made by a volcano. It dried slowly. It melted in the volcano, and then in a certain number of processes, it didn't become a lava stone. It didn't become a black sand beach. It became a piece of black glass.

That black glass is what is produced when the ash of a volcanic eruption goes through a jet engine, which is hot enough to melt the ash back into teeny, tiny pieces of lava. The lava then gets deposited on the back of the jet engine as obsidian and grinds that jet to a halt, not the jet itself. The jet engine literally stops. It can't go anymore.

SANCHEZ: Have you got that picture? Do you have that little silicate thing that -- have you got that up there?

MYERS: Just stand by here.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Show it to the viewers. Yes, no, we will wait, because this is interesting. When you look at thing, it almost looks like a meteor.

Now, obviously, it's actually a tiny, little microscopic particle that actually can get consumed into the jet engine. That's what we have been taking you through.

MYERS: Yes, I had a piece -- a picture of one, and it looked kind of like a lava stone that got thrown up into the sky. This one here's one that I showed yesterday here.

And it's very indicative of what can happen and how this becomes obsidian. The other -- this one here kind of looks like a fish coming in and biting this other, but it's very jagged. Just all these pieces of ash are jagged. And so it's the -- also the friction that these jagged pieces of ash, basically, sand -- throw sand in your car's engine, see how's it's going to do.

And the sand gets thrown into a jet engine, and it comes to a grinding halt because of friction as well.

SANCHEZ: Huh.

MYERS: But it melts -- it melts these pieces back together, and then it all gets back into one piece of obsidian glass in the jet engine.

Now, the problem with it -- and people have been asking, how long's this going to last? There's no way to know. There's no way to know how long they are going to have to close the airspace because there's glass or this dust in the atmosphere still.

Even a minuscule amount of this can still start to get collected on a jet engine, even if it doesn't stall or kill the engine.

SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm.

MYERS: You don't want that in a jet engine, because they are millions of dollars to overhaul an airplane's engines. You got four planes and all of -- four engines, and all of a sudden by the time you get to JFK, you got to take them all apart to get the glass out of the back.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

MYERS: They don't want to fly that either.

And I personally don't want to be the first person in the sky when they do clear the airspace, because, you know, who knows.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

MYERS: They do know. They do know. When they look at the satellite they say this airspace is clear. I don't believe it's going to happen for a couple days.

SANCHEZ: Chad Myers all over that story, as I go back to my geography lessons, igneous and sedimentary. That's all...

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

MYERS: There you go, and metamorphic.

SANCHEZ: Metamorphic.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Thanks so much, Chad. We appreciate it.

MYERS: Yes, sure.

SANCHEZ: And we're going to be staying on this story throughout the next couple of hours.

Meanwhile, take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't know my daughter. They don't know the circumstances surrounding this, and yet they have tagged her name to a picture that is reprehensible. To me, they are the American Taliban.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: That man's daughter was murdered. Well, protesters are adding insult to the family's pain and hurt. Why, though?

Also, take a look at this. Let me run some of these names by you, Hank Paulson, Neel Kashkari, Robert Rubin, a virtual who's-who of Goldman Sachs alum, right? And some of the names that I just rattled off were pretty prominent behind the scenes of the bailout.

Well, Goldman Sachs is in some hot water today. This is on Jessica Yellin's list. She is coming up next. We will be back with your national conversation, your list, RICK'S LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: U.S. Airways is responding to what we were just talking about, as a matter of fact. You know we check with all the different relevant tweets that are going on that we think may be of interest to you.

Well, this is interesting to you, especially if you have to cancel your flight because of what's going on with this volcanic ash. Take a look at this information that just came to us from U.S. Airways. "Change fees now waived all the way through 4/20, and re-booking window is now 14 days due to the volcanic ash over Europe."

So, again, if you're being affected by this, U.S. Airways says they're not going to hit you for the $25 or the $50 or the $75 waive fee that they usually do in cases like this, and then they also give their Web site, in case you want on get some more information on that.

Take a look at this. Isn't that something? Let me show you. This is a stunt plane. It's torn to bits, by the way, after a high-speed crash. Can you believe that image, though? It's -- it's really a question as to whether or not the pilot can even survive this. Does he? I'm going to tell you.

Also, was Goldman Sachs betting against their own product? And were they doing it at your expense? Jessica Yellin's covering this story for us. She's going to join us in just a little bit. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And welcome back to RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez.

The federal government's going after Goldman Sachs. They filed suit today. Now, in case you had forgotten, Goldman Sachs gave us Robert Rubin. They gave us Hank Paulson, both treasury secretaries, both deeply involved in the meltdown and the big government bailout. Goldman got a bailout, $10 billion -- paying it back, by the way.

And speaking of bailouts, I want to digress now for just a second. I want to talk about this financial reform debate that's starting to heat up in Washington. Now, as I bring you into this part of the conversation, I want you to do this for me. Keep Goldman Sachs in your mind as you listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: We cannot allow endless taxpayer-funded bailouts for big Wall Street banks. That's why we must not pass the financial reform bill that's about to hit the floor. SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: It's straight from the Wall Street special interest talking points. That's what they're determined to do, defeat this bill by suggesting somehow that there's a bailout provision in this bill. Nothing could be further from the truth. The bill, as drafted, ends bailouts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: That's the essence of the debate going on right now in Washington. Now, did you catch that? One side is saying we need to punish Wall Street, and the other side is saying, you're giving them a bailout. You're giving them money.

And there's some big news on that. Stand by.

But back to the bailout taker Goldman Sachs -- as of today, it's being sued by the federal government, by you, essentially. Here's the deal. When you buy a used car, you want to buy one that is certified, right? So, you buy the car and it breaks. You thought it was certified. Then you come to find out the folks who certified the thing, they were betting on it being a junker.

They shouldn't have certified it as being certified, because it wasn't. Think about that. It's easy to understand a used car. It's a little tougher to understand what may have been going on, on Wall Street. OK, the car quits on you, right? You lost, but they still win.

Now, the car should never have been certified in the first place. Well, that's the essence in many ways of the federal lawsuit against Goldman Sachs. But we're not talking cars here. We're talking mortgage-backed securities, loans, all compiled together, the complex product that brought our economy to its knees.

So, I want to bring in Jessica Yellin now. She's our national correspondent. Jessica is with us from New York.

My used car analogy, do you think it explained to folks what was going on here with these AAA ratings that were being sold and put together in these deals?

(CROSSTALK)

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think the car analogy's great. I like to call it, it's when the house always wins. In this case, the house always wins -- the accusation is the house is winning because they had stacked the deck, that basically the SEC is charging that Goldman Sachs knew that what they were selling to investors was basically junk and worthless, but they were still pushing it and they were making money on one side by pushing it to one group of people and on the other side by arranging deals with other people who knew it was junk who would also profit by betting against it.

Now, Goldman Sachs is saying, look, we are innocent in all this, these charges are false, and they're going to fight it. But this is the essence of what this whole Wall Street reform fight is over, is getting in to these transactions and making sure stuff like this can't happen.

SANCHEZ: But why -- I have to ask you...

YELLIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: ... because I have looked into this an awful lot, and I have talked to a lot of people who are very much involved in this. And many of them are convinced that these tax-swap deals and all these other shenanigans that went on, that they had to know what was going on.

They knew that they were essentially telling people, this is rated AAA, when they knew it wasn't rated AAA. And, yet, you're telling me today that they're bringing civil charges. Why the hell don't they bring criminal charges against these guys, who almost brought down our entire country?

YELLIN: Well, just because they have brought civil charges doesn't mean criminal can't also come. I have no insight in to that and can't say whether they will, but the two things are separate, so we could still see criminal charges against people on Wall Street.

One of my -- one of the things I have gleaned from reporting on this is, a lot of these things we're talking about were so sort of on the frontier, new and cutting-edge, that there weren't necessarily regulations telling people what they could and couldn't do, so it's not always clear when they explicitly breaking the law. It might have given them an uh-oh feeling in their tummy and they knew it was bad, but that doesn't mean that it was illegal in every case, and so I don't know that there are always criminal charges that would necessarily hold up, you know, when you're...

(CROSSTALK)

YELLIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: OK. Let's forget the criminal charges and let's just talk about the one thing that we probably need in this country.

YELLIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: And I think it would be hard for Americans to look at what's gone on, on Wall Street and not say we need some kind of reform. We need the rules put back in so they can't do these -- quote -- "shenanigans."

YELLIN: Everyone agrees on that, yes.

SANCHEZ: OK. So, we -- OK, so, I understand. Now, there's a huge debate going on in Washington over what appears to be whether they should do it or not. What's the question?

YELLIN: The question is, does everybody like the -- the specific bill that's been put forward? So, the Democrats have put forward a bill. There's disagreement within the Democratic Caucus on whether it goes far enough.

And then there -- Republicans have come out with a letter saying that all 41 Republicans in the Senate don't like this bill and they want changes. And...

SANCHEZ: But they're calling it a...

(CROSSTALK)

YELLIN: ... the Senate majority leader...

SANCHEZ: But...

YELLIN: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. And I apologize.

YELLIN: No, no, no, go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But I'm just thinking, I keep hearing them say that this is a bailout. Look, I have got some information here. Let me read this to you, and you tell me whether this is significant or not.

YELLIN: OK.

SANCHEZ: This is Sheila Bair. She's the head of the FDIC, appointed by George W. Bush, a Republican. She says this -- the bill makes bailouts "impossible, and it should. We worked really hard to squeeze bailout language out of this bill."

Sheila Bair is saying, when Mitch McConnell stands before us, as he has the last couple of days, and says that this is a bailout, she's saying he's wrong.

Is she credible? Is she kind of like the referee in this thing or not?

YELLIN: She's very credible. And it's a legitimate point of view.

But Republicans and McConnell's folks would point you to Robert Reich, who is a liberal. And he has said that this bill in some ways could lead to indirect bailouts.

The bottom line, Rick, is this is so involved and complicated. And there is stuff in the bill that would say, if a firm seems like it's going to be healthy and it's going to do fine and it just needs some temporary help maybe to get through the night or the week in a credit crunch, in a crisis, there are ways the government could help it survive.

That's not necessarily with taxpayer money. It's nothing like the bailout we saw before, that $800 billion, not like that, different. But, still, could you call it a bailout? Some people say yes.

So, that's where the fight is. Big picture, this bill is designed to end what we had before and to put in new protections. And it's a shame that they're not talking about how that should work, instead of this other stuff.

SANCHEZ: It's the current state of affairs in America.

YELLIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Leave it to Washington to take something all Americans agree on and turn it into a...

YELLIN: And make it confusing.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Exactly. You know I always enjoy my conversations with you. And can we do it again Monday?

YELLIN: Yes. I will see you then. Have a good weekend.

SANCHEZ: Take the rest of the week off. See you later, Jessica.

YELLIN: Thanks, man.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: CNN's Candy Crowley, by the way, is going to tackle financial reform with the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, this Sunday at 9:00 Eastern. That's on "STATE OF THE UNION."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANICE LANGBEHN, DENIED VISITATION RIGHTS: I truly believe that who you want at the moment of your death, it should not be defined by blood relation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: President Obama moves to end discrimination in hospital visitation rights. Who will benefit? That is coming right up.

Also, his actions 45 years ago prompted President Lyndon Johnson to demand Congress pass the Civil Rights Act. His actions today have landed him on the list of one of the most intriguing people on the news on this day.

This is your national conversation, your list, RICK'S LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We have got a bunch of interesting tweets I'm going to be sharing with you in just a little bit. In fact, we got one moments just ago from Terrell Owens. No, don't show it yet.

This T.O. one is that you're going to want to see when we get into the Roethlisberger story, because there's developments on that story.

But, meantime, you know we do this every day for you, so I want to do it now. Time to check the list of the most intriguing person in the news today.

All right, you know what? Sometimes, to make change happen, you got to jump in feet first and just make a big splash. This man marched with Dr. Martin Luther King and Andrew Young and made his biggest civil rights movement mark in Saint Augustine, Florida, in 1964. That's where he and several others jumped into a whites-only swimming pool at a motel to protest the arrest of Dr. King there.

Someone took this famous photo showing the motel owner pouring acid into the pool. It became the iconic image of what was to be known as the Saint Augustine movement. Well, look what our most intriguing did just a couple of hours ago. He and Ambassador Andrew Young and the current mayor of Saint Augustine jumped into a shark tank at the Georgia Aquarium in Atlanta to remember that very day, that keystone event in American history.

Let's see what he looks like close up. There he is. That's J.T. Johnson. He's one of the main figures in the new civil rights documentary. It's called "Crossing in St. Augustine." And he's absolutely one of the most intriguing people in the news on this day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRED BRIGHT, OCMULGEE, GEORGIA, JUDICIAL CIRCUIT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Ben, grow up. Come on, you're supposed to stand for something. I mean, you're the leader. You should be a role model. You don't need to put yourself in this position anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: "Ben -- Ben, grow up." That's what he said. We have gotten a copy now of what -- police report from the night that Ben Roethlisberger was in that bar in Milledgeville, Georgia, and wow.

Now, remember, he's not being charged. He is awaiting punishment from the Steelers. And it's all got a big NFL buzz going around it.

Now, look what Terrell Owens is tweeting about. This is the one I was talking to you -- just a moment ago. You ready? So, we have got the story out on Ben Roethlisberger, right? "Interesting. Why weren't -- what -- Steelers trade Roethlisberger, but can trade Santonio Holmes? He's been in more trouble than Holmes. Hmm."

You see, what -- for those who don't follow football, Santonio Holmes was just traded to the New York Jets, and somehow Terrell Owens is saying that all things aren't equal in the NFL. He ends it with a question. Just a thought. We will let you think on that one.

And we will be right back. This is RICK'S LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. Brooke Baldwin's going to be joining me in just a moment.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Always great to see you here.

BALDWIN: Good to see you.

SANCHEZ: And you have some guests.

BALDWIN: My momma.

SANCHEZ: Brooke's mom is here. I just met her --

BALDWIN: Oh, lord. My mom's in the house.

SANCHEZ: We got to get a shot of you. Get in the light.

BALDWIN: They're, like, wait a minute, we just got here.

SANCHEZ: Do we have the shot? Mom, raise your hand.

BALDWIN: They are slinking around in the shadows.

SANCHEZ: It's so great to have you here. She's wonderful. Who is more embarrassed, you or mom?

BALDWIN: I think me.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: She's wonderful.

OK, take a listen to this, this is an interesting story. Yesterday was a deadline to file your taxes, a day many Americans say is the day they get soaked. Speaking of soaking, let's do "Fotos."

That's right, you think you're getting soaked by the IRS. A driver in Houston lost control of his truck and got soaked.

BALDWIN: Yikes.

SANCHEZ: You got it. The truck smashed right through the fence and it ended in a backyard pool. Can you believe this thing?

BALDWIN: It's not good.

SANCHEZ: You imagine the person who owns that house.

BALDWIN: Did he get out?

SANCHEZ: Well, the tow truck driver borrowed swim trunks from the homeowner, literally. Why? To dive into the pool and hook up the truck. And, by the way, it's not the first time something like this has happened there. That's why the homeowners want the city to put up a barricade of some type.

BALDWIN: You think?

SANCHEZ: You think, right.

Two men robbed a convenience store and stole money and then they just took off, Brooke.

BALDWIN: They fled.

SANCHEZ: That's right. A friend of one of the customers was actually brave enough to chase after him in their car until they shot at him. The good news at least in this case, nobody was hurt.

Here's a question, would you may $9 for a roll of toilet paper?

BALDWIN: No.

SANCHEZ: People will make money any way they can these days. Can you recognize those guys?

BALDWIN: No.

SANCHEZ: Do you recognize those guys? The guy on the left?

BALDWIN: Hugo.

SANCHEZ: That's Chavez. How about the guy in the little olive hat?

BALDWIN: Ah, Mr. Castro.

SANCHEZ: That's Fidel. What if it featured the images of these guys? A Miami woman created the product four years ago as a form of protest, but it's selling like crazy. The message of protest couldn't be clearer. You get to wipe you know with the faces of -- whatever. I know, mom's here. I didn't finish the sentence, trust me.

That's "Fotos," mom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's, like, sorry, Mr. Snyder, you know, you buried your son for us, but we're going to reverse the decision, and we're going to make you give them money so they can do this to more soldiers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: This is a story that I have been covering for the better part of two years now. It's going to make you mad, if you -- if you respect and love our soldiers, our troops, and everything they're doing. It will make you angry to see what this father has had to contend with.

His son died in Iraq, and now a church group -- a church group -- may get his money. He sued after the group protested at his son's funeral disrespectfully. But a judge has told him to pay their legal fees, like he's wrong instead of them. So now the Supreme Court is taking up his legal battle. We're going to be all over that. In fact, Brooke's here, and we'll be drilling down on the case in the latest controversial protest.

And you know who the group is, right? It's the Westborough Baptist Church. We've had a ton of run-ins with them. I'm glad you're picking this up. I look forward to it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Time for the "Brooke Block," a list here of stories that she's following for us. And the first one, which is maddening.

BALDWIN: It is maddening. And you know what, my twitter account just about blew up today, because people have a whole lot to say about this. You know what I'm about to talk about, we're talking about the Westborough Baptist Church.

Just a couple minutes ago you heard the sound bite from that father from Pennsylvania whose son was killed in Iraq back in 2006. At his sons funerals, and I've covered these funerals, these protesters, they are Kansas based, you heard Fred Phelps, the Kansas-based Westborough Baptist Church.

A lot of people know they spew hatred and normally we wouldn't waste time giving them time on our air, but this is a news story, and here's why. The father sued the church and he ended up winning millions of dollars in damages for invasion of privacy and emotional distress.

But the fourth circuit court of appeals overturned that decision. Why? Well, they say they're protected under the First Amendment and free speech, and now the case is going to the U.S. Supreme Court.

SANCHEZ: That's amazing. Your son dies serving your country. You're trying to lay him to rest and people show up yelling obscenities while you're doing that. You sue, and now they're saying, no, you shouldn't have sued. It was his right to do it, and now you got to pay him.

By the way, what does this have to do with the Virginia Tech case?

BALDWIN: Right. So now not only are they protesting the funerals. I was actually in West Virginia last week and they were protesting the miners, and they are protesting today being the third anniversary of the Virginia Tech massacre.

You know the story, 32 students shot and killed, and guess who was on campus. The church, these members claim that Virginia Tech has to use their words, they are god smacked and god purposely caused the tragedy three years ago. And now they're saying this. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The curse of god is on this country. This nation's destruction is imminent! You want to talk to me about that young lady. Her dad did that to her. Her mom did that to her. There's no hope for her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Who is the young lady? Morgan Harrington. She was murdered. She was a Virginia Tech student, disappeared in October. Her body was found in January. Her death -- I should be careful in saying her death is being investigated as a homicide.

But she is also another target of those protesters. And her father showed up in Blacksburg, along with throngs of other students supporting him and his daughter, and he says, this is so compelling, he said what Westborough Baptist church is doing is hate speech. It's not free speech.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN HARRINGTON, MORGAN HARRINGTON'S FATHER: The First Amendment allows us to have free speech, obviously. But in this particular instance with my daughter, I think it's a defamation of character. You know, they don't know my daughter. They don't know the circumstances surrounding this, and yet they have tagged her name to a picture that is reprehensible.

To me, they are the American Taliban.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Well, unfortunately, the law says, and this is one of the things that you get when you live in a democracy.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: They're right. You can't defame a dead person, for example. So, they have a right to protest. It's not a question of law. It's a question of decency.

BALDWIN: It's a question of decency, but it's interesting, because a lot of the people tweeting me earlier all recognize that, they all realize this is free speech. They say this is free speech, and we have the right not to listen.

SANCHEZ: You're right. Thanks so much, Brooke. Good stuff. You're coming back, right?

BALDWIN: Coming back.

SANCHEZ: All right, take a look at this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leave her alone. It's none of your business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: What in the world is this? Fight scenes like this from a movie. It's called "Kick Ass." That's what it's called. No, I know. No, that's what it's called. It's called "KA." I'm uncomfortable saying it now because of the way you looked at me.

BALDWIN: My mom's in the studio.

SANCHEZ: I know, mom, I'm sorry. The movie is only now coming out. So why are people so mad? That is coming up.

Also, first, a bizarre battle making our list -- a 12-year-old boy trapped in the U.S. while his mother in Canada pleads for his return. Why not give him back? I'm going to talk to her in just a little bit. That's next. Stay there.

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SANCHEZ: If you're a mom or you're a dad, you may want to pay attention to this story and it may cause you to scratch your head a little bit. Legal limbo, this case that I'm about to tell you about has been called Kafka-esque, it's been called bizarre. It's been bureaucracy run amok.

It's about a little Canadian boy. He's visiting his step dad in Oregon. He's from Canada, but he's visiting his dad in Oregon, stepdad. He's stopped by police for riding his bicycle without a helmet. You think, OK, so?

Well, as a result of that encounter, a 12-year-old boy, a boy named Noah Kirkman, has been stuck in the U.S. legal system being shuffled from one foster family to another for almost two years because he was riding his bicycle without a helmet.

You're wondering, right, so, why? Well, because interestingly enough, state child welfare literally has taken custody of him in Oregon. Again, you ask, why did they do that? Because his Canadian mother wasn't with him at the time that police stopped and detained him, and because there was some kind of file on him that they discovered.

Lisa Kirkman is the boy's mother. She's Noah's mother. Her attorney, by the way, is Tony Merchant, and he's good enough to join us as well.

Boy, I tell you, I can't even imagine your peril here. Your child -- how long has it been since you've seen your son?

LISA KIRKMAN, SON IN U.S. FOSTER CARE SINCE 2008: The last time I physically saw Noah was July of 2009, and the last time I tried to go down to visit him, I was denied entry.

SANCHEZ: So, why do welfare officials say that they're going to keep him from you? Why have they been keeping him from you?

KIRKMAN: That's a very good question, actually. The exact reason they gave --

SANCHEZ: All right. Hold on. Do we have -- Tony, do we have you? TONY MERCHANT, CLASS ACTION LAWYER: Absolutely.

SANCHEZ: OK. We lost you for just a moment. We're talking to you all on Skype, and we appreciate your time. The last question I asked you was why are officials -- what reason do they give for keeping you from your son?

KIRKMAN: What they say is that I neglected my son by sending him down to spend the summer with someone who did not have parental authority. This is my husband, not my ex-husband. And in Canada, he does have parental authority. I wasn't aware of that, that he's not someone who is considered to have parental authority --

SANCHEZ: Hold on. That just doesn't make any sense. I send my sons and my sons' friends when we used to live in New Jersey, they come down and they spend time with my son in the summer. Families do this all the time. Responsible adults can take care of other people's children.

Why is that -- where is the crime there?

KIRKMAN: I think it was a -- there was no crime. I haven't been charged with a crime. My son didn't commit a crime. There really isn't a good reason for it. And it's perplexing to this day, what they're saying is --

SANCHEZ: Now, does it have something to do -- I did mention to my viewers there was some kind of file they found.

And you, to be fair, you have a criminal record. I know most people wouldn't find this to be a big deal or a reason to take someone's child away, but you were busted a few years ago because you were growing some kind of medical marijuana. They said you didn't have a permit. You were sentenced to some kind of community service. Again, it doesn't sound like a big deal. You write for the "High Times" magazine.

Could that be the problem? I wouldn't think in Oregon. But could that be part of the problem? And what's in this file?

KIRKMAN: Well, my son has special needs, and in Canada, anyway, the same agencies that handle special needs resources for children also handle child protection. So you really only have one file.

And so I think what happened was DHS called up to Canada and said, does this child have a social service file? Well, my son's had a social service file since he was a toddler because of those special needs. And they have not said that -- specifically that they're keeping him from me because of my background, but that certainly seems to be what the thrust of it is. I'm sorry?

SANCHEZ: I'm just listening to your story. We've not been able to find -- that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, in fairness -- but we've not been able to find a legitimate reason why you as a mom should be kept away from your son. Counselor, let me bring you in here. I imagine you're representing this woman, and you've asked them, give this woman back her son or come up with a season. Have they not given you any reasons?

MERCHANT: They haven't given a reason. But I think viewers would also want to know that when Noah went down there, he was an A student in Canada, he's a 4.0 grade student in the United States.

One of the usual things that you see if a child is in distress is they're having trouble in school. Not only was he excelling in school in Canada, he's excelling in school in the United States.

SANCHEZ: He sounds like a good kid, yes.

MERCHANT: Exactly.

SANCHEZ: Let me read you a statement, just to be fair to the other side. We reached out to the Oregon Child Welfare Department, here's what they said. They said "Our goal in all child welfare cases is to safely return children to their families and the Oregon Department of Human Services and the Canadian governments are continuing to work together to provide appropriate assistance to the Jirkman family in order to achieve that goal."

That doesn't sound like it says anything. But we thought we'd play it for you anyway.

Lisa, I'm just thinking as a parent I would be climbing the walls. You know what? I'd be going crazy. You don't keep me away from my children unless you've got a darn good reason to do it. What's going on with you with this emotionally? This is your son.

KIRKMAN: Well, it's absolutely torturous to me and the rest of my family as well and the seven-year-old daughter who has been missing her brother. This has been difficult for adults to understand let alone a seven-year-old.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

KIRKMAN: And all I can do is just keep fighting, because it's almost like if I stop and I really ruminated on it too much, I would be paralyzed and I wouldn't be able to function and fight to get him back.

SANCHEZ: I appreciate your time. I thank you for joining us. I apologize for a little bit of the satellite delay which sometimes make us talk over each other a little bit, but that's kind of like the new technology. And we'll keep track of this story. Let us know if you learn anything else and we'll get you back on. I apparently it.

KIRKMAN: Absolutely. Thank you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on. You've got stand for something. You're the leader. You should be a role model. You don't need to put yourself in this position any more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: OK. What prompted the district attorney to say that even though he didn't charge Ben Roethlisberger? Well, the Roethlisberger file is out, and we've got it. I'll share.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: A lot of comments on my comments on Goldman Sachs. Now take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's 12:00, so we've been on the road since then. We're not the happy campers at this stage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: I have no idea what she said. Where there's smoke, there is fire, or in this case, ash, and a lot of it. This eruption is causing massive flight disruption all over the world.

Also, cheating on tests and fudging results -- who's allegedly doing it? Well, it may not be who you think.

And we'll interpret all the sound coming in from Europe for you during this break. We'll be right back.

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