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Rick's List
Goldman Sachs Reports Billions in Profits; Animal Cruelty Law Thrown Out; Immigration Uproar in Arizona
Aired April 20, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And closing bell time is Poppy Harlow time. So, let's go to Poppy right now.
But, first, she's going to let us know that she had a conversation with a bigwig today.
You talked to Donald Trump.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
SANCHEZ: He's got a lot of money, doesn't he?
HARLOW: He got a lot -- he's got a lot of money.
(LAUGHTER)
HARLOW: He's a TV celebrity. And he coined the phrase, "You're fired."
But he talks a lot about commercial real estate, the markets. But he also talks very candidly, Rick, about China. I want you to listen to what Donald Trump told me about China.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, CHAIRMAN & CEO, TRUMP HOTELS & CASINO RESORTS: This country is so friendly, and the biggest problem we have, like with China, is that they're sucking money out of this country.
Hey, look, I know lots of folks in China. They think we are the dumbest son of bitches in the world, all right? They think our representatives don't know what they're doing. They laugh at us behind our back. They are taking money out and then they loan it to -- think of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: And, yes, he did say that about China, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Wow. That's -- that's...
HARLOW: Yes.
SANCHEZ: That's heavy language. Even Ali Velshi wouldn't stand for something like that. HARLOW: Yes, that -- that is true.
SANCHEZ: So, hey, are we up again? Up 24 today.
HARLOW: We're up again, up 24 points, 11,116. Look, I'm looking at the bank stocks, Rick. They're up across the board, and all the three major indices up across the board.
Listen, Goldman Sachs, despite the fraud charges, great earnings this morning, $3.5 million in the first quarter. Investors like to hear that, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Oh, my goodness. Poppy Harlow, good to take -- good job, as usual. Interesting that you were able to get that good get, as we say, with Donald Trump.
All right, let's do this, hour two. Time to pick up the pace of today's LIST. For those of you who are just now checking in, number one, the profits are being reaped by Goldman Sachs.
All right, remember the money that we gave you -- that we gave Goldman Sachs, you and me, by the way, and Ali Velshi, who is standing over here with me, the taxpayers, 10 billion in bailout bucks, right? Well, yes, they paid it back. But they were on their knees and we had to bail them out.
Well, here's where they are now, first-quarter profit, $3.5 billion. Not bad, huh, folks? That's in three months. And -- and -- and this is a firm that now stands accused of selling investors on a fund that was basically devised to fail.
Joining me here, Ali Velshi, chief business correspondent and all-around smart guy and good guy, by the way. And then Matt Taibbi is joining us, contributing editor for "Rolling Stone" magazine, who has written prolifically about what happens in the relationship between big business, Wall Street, and some of the guys in Washington who sometimes do things to not necessarily hurt them.
Matt, let me begin with you.
The situation, as Americans see it right now, if you're an average American, and you're looking at what has happened with us bailing them out and now so many of them doing so well, wouldn't you think you would be saying, you know what, A, make sure they can't pull that -- those shenanigans in the future, and, B, why don't you -- why don't you make sure that we charge some of these guys to make sure that they can't do it again?
MATT TAIBBI, NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR, "ROLLING STONE": Yes, I think that's an important question. I think that's one of the reasons why this SEC suit has such resonance.
You know, before, prior to that suit, there was sort of this attitude that, no matter what these guys got into, the government was not only not going to do anything about it, but they were probably going to affirmatively bail these guys out whenever they got into trouble.
This is an important sign that the government sent that they finally will start enforcing the law, at least to some degree.
SANCHEZ: Well, and let's talk just real quick, if we can, because there's two stories going on today, OK? There's the business side of the story. There's everything we have been saying about Goldman.
TAIBBI: Right.
SANCHEZ: And there's still people out there who are arguing, although we have just broken the news that it looks like the Republicans are now going to get on board with the Democrats, and they are going to come up with some kind of Wall Street reform, for lack of a better term.
How important is that, Ali?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's crucial. It's crucial.
I mean, Matt brings up the point that it's not -- I mean, in -- in some cases, Goldman stands accused of -- of breaking a rule that was already on the books. But there's a culture and has been a culture around Wall Street for some time that there are no cops around. Nobody is really going after us. And the SEC has no -- it's a gummy organizer.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me stop you. No, no. But let me stop you right there.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Why are there not cops around?
VELSHI: Well, because...
SANCHEZ: It's interesting you use that language.
VELSHI: ... we have had a culture of deregulation for many years.
So, we -- we made the big changes to regulation back in the '30s. And ever since then, all of the changes to financial regulation...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
VELSHI: ... have been to regulate less, not more.
SANCHEZ: Garn-St. Germain, Glass-Steagall.
VELSHI: We pulled back everything that mattered.
SANCHEZ: Those are the laws put in after...
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... by -- by Roosevelt...
VELSHI: And then they were pulled out.
SANCHEZ: ... to -- to keep us from getting into a depression.
VELSHI: Because people said let business run free. You will stifle business if you put too many rules in.
That's like saying let cars run free on the highway and you will stifle people driving. You don't. But you have rules.
SANCHEZ: But it goes beyond just taking out the rules.
Let me go back to you, Matt, if I possibly could. It is not just that people -- some economists have argued we got rid of the rules. There were still guys there who were supposed to regulate what was left. Did they, or were they too tied to the people they were supposed to regulate?
TAIBBI: Well, there are two things going on here. One -- one aspect of this is that there was an entire area of the economy that was virtually completely unregulated that had to do with derivatives.
And this suit that -- involving Goldman Sachs, it involves collateralized obligations and credit default swaps, which are derivatives, which are basically unregulated thanks to the Commodities Future Modernization Act of 2000.
But even the part of the economy that is regulated, the securities aspect of it, they have been more or less unregulated because the people who are in those positions are largely former bankers from these same companies.
You know, again, the treasury secretary under Bush was a former head of Goldman Sachs. We had another former head of Goldman Sachs...
SANCHEZ: Rubin.
TAIBBI: ... in the Clinton White House, Rubin.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Well, is where -- Matt, Matt, I love your stuff. This is where you get crazy.
The fact is that we -- we -- that's not always the case. The reality is, it is -- it is -- we have had a culture of deregulation for a long time.
There's a sense -- and, Matt, I think you will agree with me here -- that regulation came in the way of business. And, so, for decades, we have been deregulating and letting...
SANCHEZ: Yes. VELSHI: So, as cars get faster, we didn't change the -- we didn't change the rules of the road.
SANCHEZ: So, what did he say wrong? So, what did he say wrong?
VELSHI: I don't think it's -- it's not specific to people, Matt. It's a culture. It's a culture that we have had for a very long time.
TAIBBI: Well...
VELSHI: Republicans and Democrats have all been part of this culture of not standing in the way of business, because business is the Holy Grail in this country.
TAIBBI: No, I -- I agree that it's a completely bipartisan problem, but I think it's hard to deny that the -- the actual individuals who are sitting in these so-called regulatory positions are very frequently graduates of these same companies they're supposed to regulate.
I mean, we had the absurd situation last year where, you know, Stephen Friedman, another former head of Goldman Sachs, was, you know, at one point the supervisor of Goldman Sachs, because he was the -- you know, the chair of the New York Fed.
We had -- the situation occurs over and over again where it's, you know, these -- the same people who were colleagues a few weeks ago are now supposed to be in this adversarial relationship. And that's why I think we get into a lot of these problems.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Before I let you guys go, I want to bring up one more thing.
I just talked to Poppy Harlow over there in New York. And she just told me that, in fact, Goldman showed some pretty good earnings today and good numbers, and that their stock may have actually gone up.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: You know, Americans are scratching their heads, guys, and people like myself. Look, I'm not -- I'm not an expert, as you guys have written much more about this than I have.
But, when you look at this, you are wondering, OK, they seem to have cheated. They may have acted unethically. They're being charged. They're being sued by the federal government.
VELSHI: But, boy, are they profitable.
SANCHEZ: But, boy, did they do well.
And isn't there a huge problem there?
VELSHI: I don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Do I -- I don't -- I don't actually -- I want them to do well. I don't care if they do well. I don't care if any company does well, especially if you can buy their stock on stock market, and you and I can do well by having that in our 401(k).
SANCHEZ: Yes, but they screwed up and only did well because of my money, because I bailed their asses out.
VELSHI: But they should -- you know what? Well, Matt, do you agree with me, Goldman would have done well anyway, regardless?
TAIBBI: Well, I think -- I think they would have done well anyway, but the reason that they would have done well is because they have this implicit guarantee of the United States government, that, no matter what happens, no matter what trouble they get into, they're going to be bailed out.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Are they going to bail you out?
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Here's what I think. I think, if you put some rules into this game and you put some policemen on -- on to Wall Street, I actually think companies can still do well.
I don't -- I'm not one of these guys who thinks rules will impede them.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
VELSHI: But I agree with you, Matt. They didn't have -- they had some rules. They didn't enforce those, and they didn't have enough rules. And, as a result, it makes it seem like it's dirty money. I actually don't think it's dirty money. I just think we need some rules to look like it -- to at least feel like it's cleaner.
SANCHEZ: And, for the record, let me just clear. I probably shouldn't have used that word. We bailed their derrieres out.
VELSHI: Yes. And they will make the argument, by the way, as they have many times, that they didn't need the money.
SANCHEZ: We will leave it at that. Thanks so much.
Matt Taibbi...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Go ahead, give us that last. Finish us off, Matt.
TAIBBI: No, no, that's OK. That's fine. (CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Matt is coming on my show this weekend.
Matt, you can -- you can finish the sentence with me. How is that?
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Matt Taibbi and...
TAIBBI: All right. That sounds good.
SANCHEZ: ... Ali Velshi, spirited conversation. I love talking about this. And I think most Americans are...
VELSHI: Sure.
SANCHEZ: ... very much interested in what -- what happens on Wall Street.
Take a look at this video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now it feels like nighttime. It's literally raining ash. The ash is going into my eyes. It's on the streets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's what I said, ash.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Covered by a giant plume of ash and flying just feet away from the volcano, some of the most incredible pics that have been coming in during the past 24 hours.
And now we're following a developing story that it appears they might be opening the airports in England after all. This is like one of those stories, a whodunit, going back and forth on this thing. But we have got Chad Myers standing by. We have got Paula Newton standing by. And they're going to be bringing an update on this, all right?
Also, has the Supreme Court just ruled it's OK to profit from animal abuse? And you're telling me you're not happy with it. I will let you know what we have found out.
Stay right there. RICK'S LIST continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Rick, this is John (ph) from Southern California.
And I'm sitting here watching you talk about the Goldman Sachs thing. I think anybody who is involved with this for the last five years needs to go back, and they need to be indicted, just like you would do with drug dealers or some of these other people, because, if all these other people can be indicted for things they did back five years ago, why can't we go back and get all these people and indict them and then get back all this money that we have given them?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: See, that's exactly what a lot of Americans are expressing, no matter where you go and no matter where you talk to them.
And here's what else Americans are following. Let me continue my list now. This is something that I want to tell you about. In fact, I want to show you part of this. Part of this might make you angry as you watch this. But I want you to stick with it, all right?
It's about a Supreme Court ruling made today. And it may not look like it on the surface, but this is about free speech.
Show this video, Roger. Here it is. All right. I wasn't even aware that something like this existed. This is sickening, videos that show women killing small animals. Of course, they're not showing you what actually happens. The animals are crushed to death under these women's high heels.
These videos are actually bought and sold by people who get some kind of Freudian thrill from this. There's no way this is legal, right? Well, from today forward, these videos, not actually the act, but the videos are legal to buy and sell.
And that's also the case for people who make, buy and sell videos showing dogs fighting. The U.S. Supreme Court justices today threw out a federal law that made it a crime to sell videos showing animal cruelty, saying the law violated the First Amendment protecting free speech.
The justices said the law was too broad and could apply to cases outside the animal cruelty videos. The chief justice said a specific law targeting those cruelty videos might stand.
Animal rights groups, as you might imagine, are, to say the very least, disappointed.
Sudden death now of a young man. Keli McGregor was found dead in a hotel room today in Salt Lake City. He was the nine-year president of the Colorado Rockies baseball team. According to police, McGregor's associates found him unresponsive after they couldn't reach him on the phone. A lifelong athlete, Keli McGregor, all-American tight end drafted by the Broncos in 1985 -- police say there's so far no sign of foul play or anything suspicious. This guy ran the baseball team. He ran the Colorado Rockies. They're investigating right now. Keli McGregor was only 48 years old.
Also, we're remembering today the woman President Obama heralds as a civil rights hero. Dorothy Height stood next to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. during his "I have a dream" speech in 1963, dedicated her life to freeing the country of racial, religious, and gender inequality.
She led the National Council of Negro Women for more than 40 years. And her years of service spanned from Presidents FDR to others. Dorothy Height died before dawn today in a Washington, D.C., hospital. She was 98 years old.
All right. I got three interesting tweets I want to be sharing with you right now. This is from President Obama, first of all: "Today, we lost the godmother of the civil rights movement, Dr. Dorothy Height, who devoted her life to those struggling for equality."
And then, from Democrat Senator Bill Nelson, he writes: "Saddened by Dorothy Height's passing. She certainly left her mark on America's history as a pioneer of civil rights."
And then from Republican Congressman Cao, remember? "Please join me in mourning the loss of Dorothy Height, the fearless advocate of racial and gender equality."
There you go.
Outrage now over Arizona's latest anti-immigration plan. One leader even compares it to Nazi techniques. That's coming up in just a little bit.
And then the cause of earthquakes in China and Chile and Haiti and other parts of the world -- what do you think is causing all this stuff all over the planet, things like earthquakes, for example? The reason is, some women are just acting too promiscuously. I'm not kidding. Somebody actually said that. And I will tell you who the genius is. I will tell you who the genius is.
That's next on RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: A colleague of ours gave us the best compliment the other day about our show, because, you know, we work hard. Our producers and our writers, we work hard to put this together.
And they said, you know what? Sometimes, I'm sitting in a parking although and I don't want to come out of my car because I'm listening to you on Sirius Radio, and I want to continue to listen to how that story is going to turn out. We just got something similar to that. This is a tweet that just came in a little while ago. This is -- his name is, what, Luis Crespo. He says: "I want to run to Kmart, but I'm glued to ricksanchezCNN. Good stuff, today."
Thank you, Luis. We will take that as a compliment, one of the few.
No, just kidding.
All right, it seems like we have got -- we have been covering a lot of these natural disasters of late, right? We have told you about volcanoes, told you about floods, told you about earthquakes.
And I think that we can agree that that's exactly what they are. They are natural disasters, natural -- key word natural.
Well, not everybody agrees, which is where we begin the list that you don't want to be on.
This is cleric Kazem Sedighi from Iran. He makes our list today. Why? This guy is blaming deadly earthquakes on promiscuous women. That's right. The women are responsible for them. When I read about him last night, I wanted to know more.
So, I had our Iran bureau listen to it, translate it, and assure us that he was actually saying this when he was at the Friday prayers last week -- quote -- "These types of temptations that some women and some girls give into outside the family environment and the privacy of the home, the youth who are moved toward temptation and don't dress appropriately," he goes on to say, "it spreads promiscuity in society. When promiscuity spreads, then earthquakes increase."
What?
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: "When promiscuity spreads, then earthquakes increase."
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: So, if a girl goes against the tenets of Islam, doesn't dress in traditional cleric-approved attire, she's promiscuous? And that will attract tectonic plate shifts and movements in Iran, which, by the way, is, in fact, prone to earthquakes.
Fire and brimstone comes in all forms of denominations, but, in this case, it comes directly from Tehran, which is why this cleric, cleric Sedighi, is on the list that you don't want to be on.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BRAD BISAILLON, AMERICAN AIRLINES PASSENGER: First thought was, I can't believe they would fly a plane with duct tape on the outside of it. Next thought was, we have been up here for an hour. Third thought was, I can't believe they would fly an aircraft with duct tape on it.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, tape on the wing, so what's holding the tail up? Bubble gum? Crazy glue maybe for your seat belts? All right, what the heck is going on here? This is an interesting story. There's a perfectly sound explanation for it.
And I'm going to take you through it. I know a lot of you airline folks have been e-mailing me and sending me tweets, saying, hold on. I get this. Don't say anything yet. We want the rest of the folks not to be clued in yet. That's ahead, by the way.
Also, a reminder that there's been a breakthrough in efforts to get passengers stranded by volcanic ash back home in England. Now, you see that right there? I'm not sure if Chad's up.
Chad, just -- we're going to break, but just give us 10 seconds on what's going on here, because it sounds like the very first landing is about to take place, right?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: This flight has been in the air for nine hours and...
SANCHEZ: Oh.
MYERS: ... 51 minutes from Vancouver, Canada. It circled there -- you can see that big circle there is the Isle of Man. On the left would be like Dublin, and on the right is England. And it's trying to get to London. Now it is circling again over Manchester and Birmingham. And we don't know yet why. We will figure it out and we will spell it out...
(LAUGHTER)
MYERS: ... after the break.
SANCHEZ: This is an amazing story.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED DANSON, ACTOR: Hi. I'm Ted Danson.
And we can make an impact and stop overfishing our oceans. If we do the right thing, we will be able to fish for the rest of our lives. If we do the wrong thing, we actually could possibly commercially fish out our oceans.
This could be turned around. So, it is a hopeful situation. You want to save the planet? You actually, at this point in history, can. Join the movement. Impact Your World -- CNN.com/impact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome Ted Danson to RICK'S LIST. He's trying to save the world's oceans. That's why his organization -- by the way, it's called Oceana -- is on our LIST today.
(COUGHING)
SANCHEZ: There goes my voice.
We have been following it for you and following what they tweet as well. Let me show you, in fact, what the very latest thing is that they have tweeted on this. And we want to share it with you.
"Garbage found in stomach of stranded whale. Garbage found in the stomach of a stranded whale. Our trash is ending up in places it shouldn't."
And there's their Web site. That's Oceana. I'm glad we were able to share that with you.
All right, now look at this, Arizona's answer to illegal immigration. It has drawn protests, and it's now being compared to Nazi Germany, being compared to the Nazis. Now, who would say that? The answer may surprise you.
And this
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said, oh, my God. I just put my hands over my mouth. I said, oh, my God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I have always wanted to know what a buzz saw -- a buzz saw...
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: ... really could do.
That must have been the laka-laka-laka in me coming out.
This gives you an idea. And we have got the video. Wait until you see what it does, all right?
We will be right back. This is your LIST, your national conversation. This is RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Flying does in fact make a lot of people nervous, especially if you look out the window and see something that's like, uh-oh.
With an uh-oh, we do "Fotos."
We like this, don't we, Brooke?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What, the duct tape?
SANCHEZ: Yes. This is a heck of a story.
Is this a window or an aisle? Well, I guess it depends on the view. Can you imagine you're in a plane, right? You look out during your flight and you see this? Tape. it looks like duct tape on an American Airlines 737.
So, we ask, what's on the tail, crazy glue? Well, guess what? It's perfectly legal and it's approved by the FAA.
BALDWIN: NASA, by the way, uses duct tape.
SANCHEZ: Really?
BALDWIN: I did a little digging since the last "Fotos."
SANCHEZ: Well, it's actually called high-speed tape, because it can resist or not deteriorate or come off during high speeds. It's used all the time for temporary patches.
BALDWIN: There you go.
SANCHEZ: It is cutting-edge hardware. And you know those incredibly powerful saws?
BALDWIN: Like that one?
SANCHEZ: That's cutting edge hardware, too.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: That's a buzz saw.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Get out of the way, people.
SANCHEZ: Yes. You know the expression, boy, that was like a buzz saw?
Well, this was actually a buzz saw, and it went right through the house. Look at that.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Was the guy inside?
SANCHEZ: Right into the house. No, that's the good news. This is in Lorain, Ohio. It spun off its hinges right into the house. It was so fast, the homeowners had to slow down the security fortage -- footage...
BALDWIN: Fortage.
SANCHEZ: ... to be able to see it.
BALDWIN: Yes, I...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: God, thank goodness.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: ... get out of that thing's way.
SANCHEZ: I mean, thank God that...
BALDWIN: That could have left a bruise.
SANCHEZ: ... that nobody was in the house.
BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
SANCHEZ: Can you imagine?
BALDWIN: Mm-mmm.
SANCHEZ: All right, let's talk about the Icelandic volcano, which I will never even attempt to name, by the way.
There is an app for that. That's right. There's an application. A British couple went through with their wedding plans, despite being stranded in Dubai. They even had their London guests in virtual attendance via webcam.
We've been doing a lot of these this week.
BALDWIN: With the proposals and the weddings.
SANCHEZ: Yes. We had one yesterday, some people on TV doing it. The lovebirds found themselves stuck because air travel was suspended due to the ash from Iceland's volcano.
BALDWIN: It didn't stop them from saying their "I dos"?
SANCHEZ: No.
I know a lot of times you guys ask, well, we really the "Fotos" because --
BALDWIN: People love "Fotos."
SANCHEZ: -- it's the coolest pictures, and they kind of like the little musical beat.
BALDWIN: So where can you see "Fotos" after the show?
SANCHEZ: You ready? CNN.com /ricksanchez. That's our blog, it's our Web site. In fact, we put a lot of cool stuff there. So please go there for "Fotos," go there for Brooke.
BALDWIN: Oh. It's awesome.
Dave Johnson, kudos.
SANCHEZ: Just does a good job.
All right. Take a look at this.
Did somebody actually leave a new secret iPhone at a bar? I mean, and by secret I mean the plans are there.
BALDWIN: Top secret.
SANCHEZ: Top secret, right. No one is supposed to see this because if it gets out, other people might actually take the technology. Ha!
You're going to have that, right?
BALDWIN: I will have that.
SANCHEZ: And then Big Ben Roethlisberger, what's his future in the NFL? We've got the dish from the commish. That's next.
Also, I want you to know that this is your national conversation. I want you to know that this is your list. But the name is RICK'S LIST.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We talked about the dish from the commish. Here it is. This is Roger Goodell. "As soon as I make a decision, I'm going to communicate it. When can fans expect an announcement for Roethlisberger's punishment?"
All right. So, look, the commissioner's all over this. So is Brooke Baldwin. She's been following this story for us.
And it's at the very top of your list. What's going on with Ben Roethlisberger?
BALDWIN: We're still waiting to get some kind of timetable as to when he might see some sort of disciplinary action from the league and also from the Steelers. They're going to be doing that in tandem. That's what we heard from the president of the team, at least.
But finally, we're hearing from Roger Goodell today. And one of the questions that was posed to him was, "Did Big Ben violate the league's personal conduct policy?" And he says, yes.
SANCHEZ: Hmm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: You do not have to be convicted or even charged with a crime to be able to demonstrate that you violated a personal conduct policy, and reflect poorly not only on themselves, but their entire teammates, all of their teammates, every NFL player in the league and everyone associated with the NFL. And that is what my concern is.
And I have expressed that directly to Ben, obviously. And I'll be making a decision as soon as I possibly can.
I want to change behavior. I want to make sure people understand there are consequences. They have to be held accountable. And they're going to be responsible when they put themselves in positions that they shouldn't put themselves in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. So two things can happen. He can either be fined or he can be suspended, or he get nothing. When are we going to know?
BALDWIN: Right. Well, we're thinking a couple of weeks after the draft.
SANCHEZ: Which is Thursday.
BALDWIN: That's what we're hearing, and I just want to reiterate again, he's not facing any charges from that alleged rape.
SANCHEZ: Right.
BALDWIN: But definitely some sort of action will be taken.
SANCHEZ: It could cost him a lot of moolah and some playing time.
BALDWIN: Absolutely.
Story number two, you went to your high school prom, right?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: I can see you as either as, like, the prom king or the guy who crashed the prom.
SANCHEZ: Velvet-crushed tuxedo.
BALDWIN: Oh boy.
SANCHEZ: Yes, lilac. Lilac.
BALDWIN: Pictures tomorrow.
Anywho -- bad mental image -- let's move on to what should have been a lovely prom for 18-year-old Jennifer Martin out of Charlotte, North Carolina.
She wanted to bring her brother, 23-year-old Jeffrey Acree (ph). He is a specialist in the U.S. Army. He was just back from Iraq after this 15-month deployment.
The family hadn't seen him for a year. She wanted to bring him to prom. But guess what? The high school said --
SANCHEZ: Wait a minute. She was going to escort him -- he would escort his sister to the prom.
BALDWIN: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: What's wrong with that?
BALDWIN: Well, hear what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER MARTIN, WANTED BROTHER AS PROM DATE: I was excited, you know, to show him off. He's not going to drink. He's not a boyfriend. He's very responsible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So why not?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: Why not?
SANCHEZ: I mean, you should be honored to have a guy in uniform there.
BALDWIN: That's what you would think, but there are issues with his age. OK?
So, this is policy in Lincoln County in North Carolina, probably a lot of different high schools across the country. You can't go to the high school prom if you're older than the age of 20. A couple of reasons, of course.
And I talked to the principal today on the phone. And he said, "I don't want to link this to this gentleman, but there are fears of alcohol if you're 21 or above." You could have alcohol. Also, you know, you're around some of these younger students.
Here's what the principal specifically told me on the phone also, because, really, this is about setting precedent. "The reason why is because the age requirement has been in place for many years, and that is consistent in our school district. It's not a personal decision about military, but this would create many more requests for exceptions in the future."
SANCHEZ: They should be honored to have an officer and a gentleman there.
BALDWIN: You know, it's such a great story. It's too bad.
Apparently, the grandmother told me he walked her to the front of the school and then she went solo. She didn't want anyone else to go with her.
SANCHEZ: I guess rules are rules.
What else you got?
BALDWIN: This is my favorite story of the day. This is the iPhone story. This is hilarious, and literally the story starts like this.
A guy walked into a bar. Yes, I'm talking about 27-year-old Apple engineer Gray Powell (ph). This happened last month.
He apparently -- according to this blog, he was celebrating having a few beers, celebrating his birthday. So what does he do? He leaves this next generation iPhone right there at the bar.
So, another guy picks it up. And this tech blog, they're called Gizmodo. They somehow catch word of this. They pay this guy who picked up this iPhone, which is definitely not on the market, pays $5,000.
I confirmed that with the site. They paid five grand to get this iPhone. They pull it all apartment, they look at the innards of this thing and they post this video online to fellow gadget geeks like Rick Sanchez on what exactly this thing will look like -- the flash, the camera, the big battery.
SANCHEZ: So it's secret technology.
BALDWIN: So this is like super-uber secret for Apple. And you know, Apple, they put the big black curtains over its doors before they debut any big product.
They really hold their -- they guard their product very close to their vest. And so they wanted their phone back.
So, the Apple legal team sent Gizmodo this letter -- this is according to this guy from this Web site -- asked for the phone back. So, they gave the phone back last night, but there have been all these questions today because PR-savvy Apple might have created just this big massive ruse just to get on CNN, being national attention for the next generation iPhone. The guy from Gizmodo says no way.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JASON CHEN, EDITOR, GIZMODO: Apple's pretty tight about their stories and how they want their press controlled. And for them to give it to some employee to lose and then for someone to find, and then for somehow to make it into our hands is really unlikely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So he left secret technology that belonged to his company at a bar after drinking and someone got a hold of that.
And he's got to be in trouble.
BALDWIN: We don't know. I've reached out to this guy, Gray Powell (ph) on Facebook.
Gray (ph), you didn't get back to me, did you?
But there are all these different Facebook fan pages that are popping up. There are T-shirts being made saying, "Come on, Steve Jobs, don't take his job away."
Here's a look at one of the Facebook Web sites. They're like odes to Gray Powell (ph) asking about, like, leaving to Canada and what would be legal. And he's looking for jobs at Microsoft.
It's just hysterical. It's a funny story. It blew up nationally today.
Apple's happy. They got their phone back. And for iPhone fans, got a kind of cool phone maybe coming out soon. Who knows?
SANCHEZ: That is one heck of a story.
BALDWIN: Isn't it hilarious?
SANCHEZ: Thank you for bringing it to us.
BALDWIN: You're welcome.
SANCHEZ: That was your list.
BALDWIN: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Here's what's on my list.
A new law in Arizona would allow people -- police, in fact -- to stop people they think are illegal immigrants. They think are illegal immigrants.
Now, is that moral? Is it constitutionally legal?
We're talking to someone who can represent both sides, both questions, when we come back.
Stay right there. This is your national conversation, your list, RICK'S LIST. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Here's another story topping the list on our immigration coverage.
Arizona's tough immigration bill, it just passed by the state senate and is waiting for the governor's signature? What does it do?
Well, first of all, it's being compared already to Nazis and communism. The archbishop of Los Angeles is comparing this law -- well, it's not a law yet, but it's a bill that might become a law if the governor signs it. It's Cardinal Roger Mahony who has blogged this: "I can't imagine how Arizonans now are reverting to German Nazi and Russian communist techniques whereby people are required to turn one another in to the authorities on any suspicion of documentation."
Police can now stop you on suspicion that you're an illegal immigrant. That's what this law does. Police can stop you on suspicion that you're an illegal immigrant. And it would also let citizens sue the government agencies that they don't think are enforcing immigration laws.
OK. Listen to this. This is from the man who actually wrote this controversial Arizona bill.
Take it, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSSELL PEARCE (R), ARIZONA STATE SENATE: I just find it amazing that we continue to debate an issue that's so simple to me -- enforce the laws. I understand the value of handcuffs when they're on the right people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: OK. That's Arizona state senator Russell Pearce, who, by the way, is going to join me here on this program tomorrow to take us through the intent of his law.
Joining me right now, constitutional law expert, Professor Jonathan Turley, and Sojourners president, Jim Wallis, author of "Rediscovering Values on Wall Street, Main Street and Your Street."
Guys, we've got two things going on here. A, it's the moral question. And B, is the question of legalities.
And we want to get this in now, Jeanette (ph)? Or are we going to go to a break and bring them back?
Let's do it now. All right. Let's go to it.
I want to start with you, Mr. Wallis.
The idea that we are doing this, is this -- is there a problem here as you see it with this proposed bill in Arizona from a moral standpoint?
JIM WALLIS, PRESIDENT, SOJOURNERS: Rick, I got up today in Washington, D.C., at 4:00 in the morning to fly out here to Phoenix to join statewide clergy here to say this is the problem of harsh enforcement without comprehensive reform. So, enforcement that breaks up families is unacceptable to us.
Enforcement without compassion is immoral. Enforcement that doesn't recognize a broken system is not going to work. And so I met with families here this morning, and they're terrified. As you say, they can pick folks up if they suspect they might be illegal.
SANCHEZ: Is that the problem, though? Because, look, if you're here and you're not legally in the United States, you can certainly make a sound argument that you should be kicked out.
So where is the moral problem here?
WALLIS: Well, you know, there are two signs up at our border. One says "No Trespassing," one says "Help Wanted." So I met a woman this morning who came here when she was a baby. She's 47 years old now. Her life is here, you know? And people are terrified.
They're going to stop people if they forgot their wallet coming to work if they're legal, and they can put them in jail. They're not going to stop me. They're not going to stop white-skinned people.
This really is a mistake. And, you know, actually, they say, Rick, you can't harbor or transport undocumented people. Well, churches harbor and transport vulnerable people all the time. This law will force us to disobey the gospel. And I'm telling you, we are not going to comply.
SANCHEZ: Well, that's interesting. And you mentioned in part of your argument the fact that some of the people that they stop may be perfectly legal citizens that just happen to have darker, browner skin. That gets us into the legal argument as well. Is it constitutional?
And that's why we have Jonathan Turley.
Jonathan, take it away.
JONATHAN TURLEY, LAW PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Hi, Rick.
There's no question, at least in my mind, that a state can have concurrent enforcement of federal laws. There's some limitations on it. But this bill raises a number of troubling constitutional questions.
One is this reasonable suspicion standard. Now, that's a standard that comes out of a case called Terry v. Ohio. And usually it's eager to figure out.
It's when police see a bulge in a pocket, when they believe they see contraband. They have a reasonable suspicion to do a pat-down. That's never really been used when it comes to someone's status as a citizen.
How on earth do you have reasonable suspicion that somebody is illegal unless you're doing racial profiling? And even with racial profiling, I don't even understand how you can do that. What you're left with would be an arbitrary and capricious system, basically a papers check like we've seen historically in past countries.
SANCHEZ: Well, I'm not sure it's as much -- two things going on here that I want to get at in just a moment. Is it that much of a profiling issue, or is it really a constitutional issue not violating the rights of those people who happen to be illegal, but violating the rights of the people who are stopped who are legal and are being stopped simply because their skin is darker?
The second question is the comparison to what the Nazis were doing with the Jews in the 1940s. This is what Archbishop Mahony said.
Is that valid? And I'm going to ask you, Jim, about that in just a little bit.
Two important parts of this conversation that people are having all over the country, and we'll have it right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Jonathan Turley is a constitutional lawyer -- professor, in fact -- one of the best in this business at this kind of thing. And Jim Wallis is joining us from Sojourners. He talks about the moral standards here.
Now, when Mahony comes out, when Archbishop Cardinal Mahony comes out and says this is akin to what they were doing in Nazi Germany, is he overreaching, Jim?
WALLIS: Cardinal Roger Mahony is a friend of mine. He's a Catholic cardinal. He's a moderate guy. But they're attacking our people here.
I mean, in this law -- I'm here in Phoenix right now -- they've turned loose all law enforcement on undocumented people. That means police out here are against this, because they have no now go after mostly harmless people instead of violent criminals. And if your daughter is raped and you're illegal, you're not going to call the police.
So, Cardinal Mahony understands something that we as Christians want to make clear. The body of Christ, as we would call it, is not Latino, Anglo, African-American. We are brothers and sisters.
And when they come after our Latino friends, they're coming after us. That's what he is saying. You come after them, you come after us. This is really harsh, and the overreaching is on the side of the governor here. So let's talk about enforcement with comprehensive reform.
SANCHEZ: Let's see if he passes it. And comprehensive reform is obviously what all sides, including fair, by the way, want to get at. The guy who is suggesting this bill, Arizona state senator Russell Pearce, is going to join me tomorrow. He might have a different view than the one that you just presented, but we'll present it to him.
Let's go back --
WALLIS: Well, do them together, is what I'm saying. Do them together.
SANCHEZ: And I think a lot of people agree with that on both sides, by the way.
Jonathan Turley, let me bring you back into this.
Let's suppose the law is passed. Let's suppose the governor approves of this and doesn't veto it, and it goes to the courts, all the way up to the federal -- possibly all the way up to the Supreme Court. Would this be upheld or overturned?
TURLEY: Well, it depends on which part of the bill. There's a number of provisions that are troubling, including suing agencies for lack of performance. If that would include federal agencies, it would be a serious problem.
SANCHEZ: Well, I don't mean to interrupt, but let's stop at the part of the bill that says that anyone with darker skin or that police believe might be an illegal immigrant has a right to be stopped and searched.
Is that constitutional?
TURLEY: Well, the Supreme Court has never said that profiling, per se, is unconstitutional. But they've always said that it can be as applied. And I think that this bill is really begging for a successful challenge.
I don't see how you can do this. I don't see how you can have reasonable suspicion in looking at two different people and say, I bet that one doesn't have papers. And I think that courts would have a serious problem with the implications of that, particularly as it's focused on minorities.
It's going to be a very arbitrarily applied law. It's poorly crafted.
It also is a philosophical change for this country. We rejected the ideas of having papers laws like Nazi Germany, of having to produce papers to show that you're allowed to be here. And that's precisely what we're doing here. I don't think the cardinal's analogy is out of line. No one is saying that these legislators are Nazis, but they're using a law that we've long felt was offensive in the United States. We didn't like the idea of police being able to stop you and say, prove to me that you can be here.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting.
Jonathan Turley, Professor, my thanks to you.
And Jim Wallis, always a pleasure being able to have you on.
Once again, tomorrow we're going to have the man who proposed this state law in Arizona. That's state senator Russell Pearce.
When we come back, the latest on the situation in England. Is a plane about to land in England? We're going to be seeing it live, perhaps.
Stay right there. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: When we started RICK'S LIST today, there were 26 British Airways planes on their way to Europe, but they were being told that they can't land in England. So where were they going to land? And why were they allowed to take off without an airport that they could land in? Were they just going to wait and make decisions as they flew around Europe somewhere?
Believe it or not, that appears to be what they were doing.
Chad Myers is picking this up for us now.
The story's progressed a lot. But what's the latest? Does it look like they're going to be landing now?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, 84 is on the ground, BAW84 (ph). And if you go ahead and take that flight radar 24 on top of the Google Earth map there you see, all the planes -- it's just like now it's bees to honey and all the planes are headed there. There's one here by (INAUDIBLE). That's TCX-901. And then we've got British Airways Flight 2038.
There's a 282 behind it, and 284. So they're all now coming in over London. They are -- I'll tell you what, they are getting the ride of their life, though.
The descent rate that they flew through the ash layer, which is about 20,000 feet down to about 6,000 feet, they came down at 3,600 feet per minute. That's 60 feet down per second. That's like landing the shuttle. So those people will be clapping when they get on the ground.
SANCHEZ: Wow. That's to avoid that silicate and all the problems that could have developed in the engine, right? MYERS: Be in the ash layer as briefly as possible.
SANCHEZ: Wow. Good stuff. Chad, you're so good at explaining this stuff, as I always say.
MYERS: Thanks, dude. See you tomorrow.
SANCHEZ: And here is somebody else who is good at what they do. This is like my old pal Ovaltine today doing "THE SITUATION ROOM."
Here we go with Candy Crowley.
