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Rick's List
Vandalism, Protests Over Arizona Immigration Law
Aired April 26, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Ali, we'll be concentrating on what's going on in Arizona. Somebody is saying that the police in Arizona are akin to Nazis, and they're spelling it out in refried beans.
Let's do THE LIST.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here is what is making your list today.
More protests as Arizona's immigration law moves forward. Will it be challenged?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These reforms will put an end, once and for all, to taxpayer bailouts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We may know during this show if financial reformulation will move forward. Can President Obama get it through? Or will some Republican block it? And at what political cost?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they don't get a handle on it, tens of thousands of gallons of product a day, and the winds push it inland -- we could have some real challenges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: How are they going to stop thousands of gallons of crude oil from flowing into the gulf? We're drilling down to explain the process to you.
From the sports list -- will Ben Roethlisberger take his medicine?
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on twitter? It's why I keep a list. Pioneers, tomorrow's cutting-edge news, right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hi, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Here we go. Topping THE LIST right now: immigration and a fallout from Arizona's tough new law. Take a look at some of these pictures.
Sometime overnight, somebody used refried beans -- refried beans -- to smear a swastika on the windows of the Arizona state capitol in Phoenix. And on the sidewalk it says, it spells out "AZ equals Nazi" -- also written with refried beans, interestingly enough.
This vandalism comes after a weekend of peaceful protests over the tough immigration law that the Arizona governor signed Friday. We brought it to you live. The law that makes, by the way, police ask anyone that they suspect might be an illegal immigrant to show papers proving that they are here legally.
We're taking you through this.
Now, the law that has raised concerns about racial profiling is the one that is now being possibly challenged, certainly questioned. How will police know that a person might be here illegally? I mean, this gets right to the heart of the matter.
Listen to this. This, again, is from Friday. This is Arizona's governor. Let's listen to this together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JAN BREWER (R), ARIZONA: I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like. I can tell you that I think that there are people in Arizona that assume they know what an illegal immigrant looks like. I don't know if they know that for a fact or not. But I know that if AZPOST gets themselves together, works on this law, puts down the description that the law will be enforced civilly, fairly, and without discriminatory points to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. Listen to the words that she just said right there.
Alia Rau is a senior legislative correspondent for the "Arizona Republic," and she is good enough to join us now.
I don't know if you've watched our coverage on Friday, but when she used those words that we just heard her use a moment ago -- and, Roger, get ready to cue that back up because I want our listeners to, and our viewers to hear that one more time. But before you play that -- Alia, let me bring you into this. First of all, tell our viewers, when the governor was referring to the AZPOST, who is the AZPOST?
ALIA RAU, SR. LEGISLATIVE REPORTER, ARIZONA REPUBLIC (via telephone): That's the Arizona police organization that oversees and basically certifies police officers. They --
SANCHEZ: OK. So, they make the rules for cops?
RAU: Correct.
SANCHEZ: All right. Now, she says when they get theirselves together, they will put down the description. In fact, here, let's hear it again, and then I'm going to ask you the obvious question: Is she asking her police board to put down a description of what an illegal immigrant looks like? Because it seemed to be that she was saying -- but for the benefit of the doubt, maybe I heard her wrong. Roger, let's listen to it again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BREWER: I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like. I can tell you that I think there are people in Arizona that assume they know what an illegal immigrant looks like. I don't know if they know that for a fact or not. But I know that if AZPOST gets themselves together, works on this law, puts down the description that the law will be enforced civilly, fairly and without discriminatory points to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Let's forget everything else that everyone is talking about, and, Alia, you and I, let's just talk about that one statement --
RAU: Sure.
SANCHEZ: -- from the governor on Friday. Why might that be vexing? Why might that be troubling for this governor and for the state of Arizona?
RAU: Well, I don't know if I can answer that, but, you know, part of her signing the law was her also creating an executive order that AZPOST would develop training procedures to enforce this law. So, I think one of the things everybody is going to wait and look at is what do those procedures look like? What does it mean to be reasonable --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: OK. But you're not -- but you're not using the same language that the governor just used. I don't mean to press you, and I know you're a reporter, and I understand.
RAU: Right.
SANCHEZ: So, I'm not asking for your opinion. I'm asking for your journalistic experience, given the interviews you've done with people there in the state, about when a governor says that they will put down the description. She didn't say, we will ask them how we enforce this law, she said they're going to put down a description. And she started the sentence by saying, "I don't know what an illegal immigrant looked like."
RAU: Right.
SANCHEZ: How can I ask you this question -- because I don't want to get you in trouble with your editor.
RAU: Sure. SANCHEZ: But is part of what's going on in Arizona right now, the very definition of how can this be done legally and constitutionally? How's that?
RAU: I think you're exactly right. I think that is question, is can this be done without racially profiling? Can you develop a reasonable suspicion that somebody is here illegally without looking at the color of their skin or their hair color or what-have-you?
SANCHEZ: Because you have the governor of the state saying on television for the whole nation to hear, here on CNN, I'm expecting AZPOST will get theirselves together and put down a -- put down a description of what illegal immigrants look like. She's -- maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm misreading it. But that seems to me like what she's saying.
Has there been any discussion from police in Arizona on this day as to what kind of pressure they now feel that's been put upon them? And I understand, there's 90 days before this thing happens.
RAU: Right.
SANCHEZ: And I talked to a couple of your folks out there. I called the Phoenix Police Department, and I called Maricopa County sheriffs, and I had a conversation with a couple of those guys on the phone. And they told me, "Look, we're still working through this." So, is it -- is it, in fact, still a work in progress?
RAU: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, we are hearing promises from the different police organizations that, you know, they can do this without racial profiling. And I think the question now is, you know, what's it going to look like when it's enforced? And I don't think we'll know that until we see it.
SANCHEZ: Well, but what about -- you know, I talked to the guys from FAIR, and, you know, they're a decent group of guys who, you know -- and gals -- who are trying to help Arizona come up with some kind of law. And let's face it. Look, the reason this law is going into effect is because the federal government hadn't gotten its job done, right? I mean, if the federal government had come up with some kind of guidelines, Arizona wouldn't be having to do this, right?
RAU: That's exactly what the governor says.
SANCHEZ: Well, what is the possibility that they're going to be able to look at this law and actually come up with some way to make it constitutionally viable? Are there any betting odds in L.A., given what -- I mean, in Arizona, given what you have talked to officials?
RAU: I think all bets are off with this one.
SANCHEZ: Really?
RAU: I do. Everyone has got a different opinion and, you know, as to whether it will ever even go into effect, or which portions are unconstitutional, which are not, you know, what the courts may say. SANCHEZ: But why is there -- around the country, you're hearing all these people question it, and, you know, because people look and go -- oh, is that really fair? But the people of Arizona seem resoundingly for it. I saw one poll, I think it was Rasmussen, it found something like 70 percent of the people in Arizona are saying, yes, we need this, guaranteed like it, support it, back it, 100 percent, proud of our governor.
RAU: And that poll -- yes, that's the only pool we've seen and that's exactly what it says. You know, you've seen the protesters out and they're resoundingly against it, but that poll shows folks at least -- you know, that they have talked to for it.
SANCHEZ: What about the blowback? What about all this talk we're getting now from people saying, "Look, you know what, we're going to boycott the state of Arizona, we're going to make sure all the conventions are cancelled," et cetera, et cetera. You know, it's the kind of thing we hear whenever there is a controversy like this, but is anybody in Arizona taking a big gulp and wondering if this is going to have an economic effect on the state?
RAU: Definitely. Some of the business groups, some of the tourism groups are absolutely waiting to see. I think, you know, right now, we're hearing a lot of talk, you know? And in another few weeks, we'll definitely start seeing whether they actually go into effect or not.
SANCHEZ: You're sitting there at the "Arizona Republic" writing about this story every single day.
RAU: Right.
SANCHEZ: Is this -- is this the page one, top of the fold story you think moving forward here for weeks on end?
RAU: For a while, yes. I think it will cool down until we see what happens, you know, once that 90 days hits, once the law lawsuits, you know, assuming they get filed, get filed. But, yes, I think this will be the story for a while.
SANCHEZ: And the legal challenges, are you writing about any of them yet, and how many more do you expect?
RAU: We haven't seen any actually filed yet. We've written several stories saying different groups have plans to file them, but as they get filed, we'll definitely keep close tabs on those.
SANCHEZ: And now, I understand they're putting out a petition. This is interesting. Ali, hey, thanks so much for joining us with the very latest out of Arizona there. We're going to have a bevy of guests talking about this throughout the show. And we're trying to see if we can get some police officials who can take us through some of the questions that I know I maybe shouldn't have been asking you, but, you know, we go through these things as best we can with who we've got to talk to. Alia Rau, thanks so much. Look at this tweet. This is from the governor's office, interestingly enough. This is what's going on right there. They want folks to sign a petition in support of Arizona's immigration reform. Please. That's Governor Jan Brewer, who's become a bit of a superstar of late after she signed this. And certainly, you know, in some circles.
And you know what we do, I keep a list of all of the people who are relevant to the stories that we tell, and that's why the governor of Arizona is on my list on this day.
Now, take a look at this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: Eighteen months ago, people broke into our home, stole everything in our house, and we haven't even changed the locks on the place yet. Eighteen months later, we're in no better position today to protect ourselves against that kind of a crisis again that we were 18 months ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. This is financial reform, time to talk about it.
There's just one Republican right now who is thinking about making a move on financial reform to make sure it is not filibustered. Will a Republican show up? I won't tell you who it is, but her name sounds an awful lot like that white stuff that falls in the winter, OK? Dems are trying to pass it, the Republicans may be trying to block it, but we're still unclear.
Also, have you seen the story out of New York? A man saves a woman from a mugging, but he's killed in the process, and nobody comes to his aid as he sits there, bleeding to death on the sidewalk. This is a true story, folks. In fact, I have the video and I'm going to show it to you as soon as we come back on your national conversation, on your list -- on RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Topping the crime list: New York, a man saves a woman from a mugging and then loses his life in the process. And that is still not the real story here, folks. Let me take you through it.
His name is Hugo Tale-Yax. He's a homeless man who tried to help this woman. See him coming up right there? That's a guy coming up on the woman, so then he comes up and tries to chase the guy away, who's assaulting this woman.
But the in process, he gets stabbed multiple times. The bad guy gets away, but there is Hugo, falling to the ground. And here, the male attacker flees -- apparently has a knife on him -- after he used the knife on Hugo.
All right. Let's squeeze the video in now. OK, you see that? See what's going on? Those are people walking by him.
Look at these people. They stop to look at him for just a little bit, trying to figure out what's going on.
Oh, there's more. There is somebody who walks by in a little bit, and they stare.
There is another one who stops and actually takes a picture, literally. Take a picture of him.
And then finally, as you can see there, the firefighters arrive on the scene, and they're the ones who deal with him. One hour and twenty minutes later, that's when help -- one hour and twenty minutes later.
Now, you saw some of those people walking by, right? A criminal is still at large.
The question is: why didn't anybody do anything for him? Why didn't somebody do for him what he did for the woman who was about to be mugged? Why didn't anybody stop and help him? And what does that say about all of us?
Roll the next video, Rog.
(VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, bombs away. They were dredging for clams, and look what happened. How did more than 100 grenades end up at the bottom of the ocean? That one is coming up.
And then, we could find out at any time now if financial reform will actually move forward. But some Republicans are threatening to block today's debate. Now, can Republicans afford politically to do that?
And who does it appear will be the one Republican who might step forward and make sure that doesn't happen? This is very similar in many ways to what was going on with health care reform, and then again, maybe not.
Jessica Yellin has some breaking news on this story that she's going to be sharing with us in just a little bit. She's next with her list. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Number one most important story on our political list out of Washington. I've got a new development for you.
And -- but let me first set the scene by showing you a live picture of what's going on right now in the Senate. I've been reporting on this bill to try and rein in Wall Street for quite some time, trying to stop this game of financial roulette that nearly drove us down the tubes, as many of you have said and tweeted.
The Democrats introduce some legislation, as you know, or have tried to introduce some legislation. But it's, so far, failed, because at least one Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, had blocked it and at the same time, threatened a filibuster. Remember, he was calling it a bailout.
All right. That was last week. Now, there's a vote scheduled today around 5:00 Eastern, and as of late -- as this morning, the conventional wisdom -- you know how I feel about conventional wisdom -- the conventional wisdom was that it had a chance to pass and that they would possibly be able to come together and close the deal.
But our own Jessica Yellin is hearing something a little bit different from this entirely. And that's why she's the best at this. And that's why she's bringing us now the very latest information on this.
All right. What you got? What's going to happen with this thing?
Look, Shelby and Dodd, Sunday morning on "Meet the Press," these guys looked like buddies. They were all but holding hands.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. There's a two-track process going on, Rick. On the one hand, Shelby and Dodd are in negotiations between themselves -- although their staffs aren't talking, we're told. On the other side, there is this public move by the Democrats to bring this to a vote to force the Republicans to take -- to take vote on this issue, to force them to walk the plank and to really ramp up the pressure on Republicans.
You're seeing what's going on in public with the vote, privately negotiations, at some point, the two should meet and we'll have a different bill.
SANCHEZ: But the Republicans are obviously going to say, look, we're not going to fight this thing. Are you kidding? It would make Americans angry if the Republicans appear to be siding with the guys on Wall Street. So, let's just take a big, long gulp and go along with the Dems on this thing, and we'll come together and make it happen, right? They're going to do that, right?
YELLIN: Well, that's not where they are now, but that's what Democrats are banking that they'll do eventually. So, what we're seeing right now is political maneuvering by the Democrats.
As you make perfectly clear, polls show people want Wall Street reform. Democrats have popular opinion on their side. So, if Republicans vote against this reform at their own peril. That's why Democrats are forcing a vote on the issue tonight, because they want to pressure Republicans to have to take a "no" vote tonight, have to take a "no" vote -- expect them to bring it to the floor again on Wednesday. Another vote -- they'll make them vote "no" as many times as possible to ramp up the pressure for them to negotiate and come to a deal.
SANCHEZ: So, is this political shenanigans? Or is this political realism? I mean --
YELLIN: You can call it shenanigans.
SANCHEZ: Is it --
YELLIN: We call it tactics here in Washington. It's a tactic. It's a political tactic.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, you're telling me the Democrats are actually going to sit there day in and day out and vote on this thing, because the more they vote on it, and the more the Republicans fight it, the more they make the Republicans look bad in the eyes of the American people. That's the game they're playing.
YELLIN: Exactly. That's the -- that's the game, the calculus, the Democrats have made here.
SANCHEZ: And they --
YELLIN: And at the same time, I should point out that they are negotiating and trying to reach a compromise in private. So, it's not just this public gamesmanship with no follow-through. In the back, we're told by both sides that they are somewhat close to a deal. They're not that far apart. But they just need to get to that.
What's going to get them over the hump of finally saying, yes, we have a deal? Democrats want this pressure on them.
SANCHEZ: But they -- the basic principles, you know, make sure these guys aren't too-big-to-fail, make sure that we lock down regulators so that they do their jobs, take care of derivatives so that --
YELLIN: Consumer protection.
SANCHEZ: -- this thing is not so complicated that we don't understand it in the future. They agree on that general stuff, right?
YELLIN: Mostly -- there are enough Republicans who agree on that stuff, that the Democrats are convinced they will get a bill in the end. So, yes.
SANCHEZ: OK.
YELLIN: Big picture, mostly yes. It's just the details of how.
SANCHEZ: And you know what they say about the devil.
YELLIN: It's in those details.
SANCHEZ: Exactly. All right, thanks so much. We appreciate it, Jessica.
I love my conversations with you every day because you're so good. We'll do it again tomorrow. Cool.
YELLIN: Talk to you tomorrow.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Tim Tebow. Have you heard about Tim Tebow? All right. There he is with his mommy and his daddy. And look, he is Mr. "Goody Two-Shoes," right? But is it right to compare him and his family, his mom, his father, miss his brothers and sisters, is it right to compare him to the Nazis? The Nazis? Who would do that? And do you think I'm going to call them out for it? Oh, yes.
Also, what's the deal with Lindsey Graham? What is the deal with Lindsey Graham? Was he threatening to derail a climate bill because of immigration?
And there's more. That's next, on your list, your national conversation, RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Go to the major Twitter board if you possibly can.
Can you get a shot over there, Rog? The one on the left. Oh, we can't, can we? Can we? Oh, that's good. And you're doing that -- you're doing that robotically, Rog? You are amazing.
All right. We're getting a lot of comments on the situation in Arizona. And a lot of people, by the way, are commenting saying, you know what, it's about time somebody in this country does something about the illegal immigration problem.
But we're also getting comments like these. This person is suggesting that everybody in Arizona should dress like an illegal immigrant, and that way, the police would have a harder time trying to identify who's an illegal immigrant and who's not. There's a novel idea.
And then somebody else is suggesting to us right below that, "That's one state I will not visit." And you hear there are some people saying now they will boycott the state of Arizona.
How is this all going to turn out? Well, remember, in the end, that it's 90 days before this thing even actually takes effect, and before that, there will be probably plenty of challenges and plenty of police decisions as to how they're actually going to enact this.
Welcome back, by the way. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is your list, RICK'S LIST.
And I want to check in one of our lists now. This is one of our most important lists, where every day we choose the most intriguing person in the news today.
(MUSIC)
SANCHEZ: He is a United States' senator, senior Republican senator. But he's a friend of the Democrats on one huge issue, climate change. In fact, he is the only GOP senator reaching across the aisle on President Obama's energy independence bill, until now, that is.
You see, the climate change bill that he is taking such risks supporting was scheduled to come up in the Senate before the more divisive immigration reform regulation. And now that it looks like the immigration bill will come up first, this senator says, OK, you can leave me out of both of them.
His words, quote, "Unless their plan substantially changes this weekend, I will be unable to move forward on energy independence legislation at this time. I will not allow our hard work to be rolled out in a manner that has no chance of success."
Who are we talking about? Well, that's South Carolina's senior senator, Republican Lindsey Graham.
And this is big, because with Graham's support from the right, the climate bill was in good shape. Where does it stand now? Hey, you tell me, and we'll both know. Twitter me.
Senator Lindsey Graham, as a result of what's going on and his decisions -- the most intriguing person in the news today.
Let's talk about Goldman Sachs. To some, their name is now mud. As the housing market tanked, did they bet against the market? Did they bet against America, as some are suggesting? Now, the real question is: was it perfectly legal or illegal? And we're looking into that.
And then, have you seen this footage? I want to show you some footage here. Have you ever seen an octopus grab a man's camera and then run away with it? Now, you'd think when somebody did that -- a huge octopus takes your camera, you'd head in the other direction, right? No, this guy goes after the octopus to get his camera back. And, you know, a good video is worth seeing. So, I'm going to show it to you.
And by the way, if you want to be on our show here to talk to me during commercials, and we'll keep each other entertained, all you got to do is dial this number, 877-4CNN-TOUR, 877-4CNN-TOUR, and you too could be a part of this show in a live studio audience setting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: A couple of things. First of all, on a programming note, we were just told a little while ago that we might get some video coming in of Governor Brewer from Arizona. She is a bit of a superstar of late. What are we looking at here, guys? Is this it? Oh, this is where the governor is going to make her appearance, and as you can see, the governor now is followed oftentimes by protesters who don't agree with her decision to sign the new, very strict immigration law in Arizona last Friday.
Now let's flip to inside, and there you see where the governor is going to be showing up and speaking in just a little bit. By the way, this is not about immigration. She is not going to be speaking about immigration, as we understand it. Brooke, you were looking at this a little awhile --
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. It's about jobs.
SANCHEZ: It's about jobs, right?
BALDWIN: It's about jobs, but like you said, protesters seem to follow her, wherever she goes.
SANCHEZ: There's the governor now. And we'll follow the story.
In the meantime, as we follow that. I want to bring you up to date on something else.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And I'm glad you're here.
BALDWIN: I'm glad I'm here.
SANCHEZ: Because I want you to be a part of this.
BALDWIN: OK.
SANCHEZ: All right. A blast from the past, a countdown mystery and daring retrieval making the day's top videos, which we often call Fotos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Let's have some fun. First up, old bombs -- old bombs in New Bedford. What?
BALDWIN (voice-over): Wow.
SANCHEZ: Navy explosives, disposal team Friday detonated more than 100 grenades believed to be from World War II and or the Korean War. Isn't that amazing?
BALDWIN: That's impressive. Look at that thing.
SANCHEZ: Look at that thing.
BALDWIN: How rusty it is. A little old. Still works.
SANCHEZ: Fishermen were dredging for clams, and they came up with that explosive discovery of grenades off the coast. Must have been a real big surprise. Get it? Yes.
BALDWIN: Real big --
SANCHEZ: Yes, surprise. Luckily, no one was hurt. It looks like a memorial, the way they set that off.
Boy, look at this. Lasting off a mystery from Cape Canaveral. Yes, that's an American rocket being launched into space. The air force says that it carried a reusable, unmanned winged vehicle with a pay load the size of a pickup truck. Past that, the cost of the mission and the launch are a big secret. The launch comes amid concerns by some over the possible militarization of space. More to come later.
BALDWIN: Yes, to be continued.
SANCHEZ: Not quite 20,000 leagues under the sea. This was close to the surface. All right. What is this?
BALDWIN: What is this? Oh, my goodness.
SANCHEZ: It's an octopus, a huge octopus. Now, look what happened. The octopus snatches the guy's camera, right? And the guy instead of saying -- I'm out of here. I don't want to mess with this octopus. No, he chases the octopus. All he's wearing is a snorkel and fins and a mask, goes back to retrieve his camera because it's nothing like the octopus going to way with it.
BALDWIN: Got some awesome pictures to boot.
SANCHEZ: Isn't that amazing?
BALDWIN: It's amazing.
SANCHEZ: And he gets it back. He goes down there amongst the deep and gets the camera back, and then swims back with it, and he's -- he's a real stud, that guy.
BALDWIN: Yes, I'd be going the other way, thank you very much, Mr. Octopus.
SANCHEZ: I agree with you. I would have done the same thing. By the way, our Fotos can be seen any time you want to by going to my website at CNN.com/RickSanchez. Bye-bye, Mr. Octopus.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's talk about our sports list now. That's Ben Roethlisberger, right? What does he have to say about the NFL's decision? Will he take the decision? Or will he fight the decision? That's what came in today news-wise.
Also, is there life beyond our planet? Now, that's a goofy question you'd think only you'd hear on a tabloid show, right? Not on CNN. Well, guess what? Today, we're asking the question, because the person who's also talking about this happens to be the most renowned mathematician in the entire world. And he is saying what he believes about life outside our own planet. This is fascinating. And you know where it is found? In the Brooke Block.
BALDWIN: My block.
SANCHEZ: It's on your list.
BALDWIN: Coming up.
SANCHEZ: It's next. Stay right there. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. My favorite segment, the Brooke Block and here she is, Brooke Baldwin, herself. And she is going to start off by telling us about some guy named Brett Michael's. Who is brett Michaels. BALDWIN: He's just after your time, Rick Sanchez. You know he always spoke fun of me.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: He spoke funny of you today.
SANCHEZ: No, I know nothing about -- what is it called?
BALDWIN: The 1980s band poison?
SANCHEZ: No. I know nothing about pop culture.
BALDWIN: Well, I'm here to teach you!
SANCHEZ: Well, thank you, take it away.
BALDWIN: Here we go. Let me tell you about Brett Michaels, and I know a lot of you out there thinking, come on, Sanchez, we all know who Brett Michaels is. He's 47 years old, lead singer in the 1980s hair band Poison, come on, Every Rose has its Thorn, anyone?
SANCHEZ: No.
BALDWIN: Most recently, seen on TV on Donald Trump's celebrities apprentice, and he's really become a big reality TV star show on "Rock of Live." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRETT MICHAELS, ENTERTAINER: To tell you, to be honest with you, I've 99 percent of me that absolutely loves you, and that 1 percent that's inside of me, I warned you, it just may be too big for me to overcome. Would you come down here, please?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bret got the ring box in his hand and he calls me forward first and I know --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: All right. So, here's the story. He is in critical condition, in the ICU, 24-hour surveillance now. He was hospitalized Friday after suffering a massive brain hemorrhage. They're trying right now to find the source of the bleeding, but he's had slurred speech, blurred vision, dizziness.
Now, a little bit of background, interestingly, a couple weeks ago, his appendix ruptured, so he had an appendectomy back on April 12th, and then last June, some of you remember if you watched it on TV, the Tony Awards, he was up performing, and this piece of stage scenery just smacked him on the head.
SANCHEZ: Wow! Do you think that had something to do with it?
BALDWIN: We can't connect it, but I'm just giving you background. From his spokesperson, we've been checking, you know, religiously, to try to get an update for you. Here's what we have. As of now, they said Bret remains in ICU under 24-hour surveillance. Further testing this week will help locate the source of the bleeding. Please remember, Bret is and always has been a fighter and survivor and is under the best medical care possible.
So as many of you are thinking about Brett Michaels, we're also hearing, we've got a couple celebrity tweets I want to show you. This first one up from Donald Trump, and here is what the Donald says, sending our thoughts and prayers out to Brett Michaels and his family, get well soon. Another guy and his band, Ricky Rocket, says I am confirming that Bret's condition is serious. Please respect his family and the band's privacy until we have more information. And one more, Sharon Osbourne, I'm thinking of you and wishing you a speedy recovery.
SANCHEZ: That's too bad. We do wish him well.
BALDWIN: Absolutely, we wish him well.
SANCHEZ: What else have you got?
BALDWIN: So, we were talking about the super uber genius, Mr --
SANCHEZ: No, I didn't give it the other way. I just said that the most renowned mathematician in the world came out --
BALDWIN: It has a little something to say -
SANCHEZ: has a little something to say about aliens.
BALDWIN: He does. So --
SANCHEZ: And we're not talking about Arizona's new immigration law.
BALDWIN: No, we're not, Mr. Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: OK.
BALDWIN: We're talking about life on other planets. Do you think there is E.T. up there? You know, they'd found water on Mars. They were saying where there's water there could be life, right? The world's most famous astrophysicist says it's perfectly rational to believe there is, in fact, life. Here he is, Stephen Hawking, though, has some advice as to whether we should or shouldn't make contact. He says, don't do it. Hawking issuing this new warning in his new discovery network TV series. He says there's a good chance we won't want alien to come calling, may not be so warm and fuzzy like, you know, cute E.T.
SANCHEZ: You mean like they don't look like us or think like us or just nice us.
BALDWIN: He says we may not want them. They may not be as nice. In fact, his parallel what if the aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans. SANCHEZ: Good analogy.
BALDWIN: There he goes.
SANCHEZ: Well done. Thanks for bringing us there.
BALDWIN: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: All right. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm proud to say, I'm from the great state of Arizona, because I was raised here, I grew up here. I don't know if I can say that. I don't know if I even want to live here anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Wow. Did you hear what he just said?
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: This is an interesting story. You know, this U.S. soldier is leaving for Afghanistan to fight for his country. His family threw him a dinner to say goodbye to him, saying we might never, ever see you again. But in his home state of Arizona, he says that they're stopping people who are like him, or who look like him, and he says he feels ashamed by the actions of his home state. This is one soldier's story, folks. but we want to share it with you.
Also, who is saying that Tim Tebow's NFL draft party looked like a Nazi rally? A nazi rally? Is that the right thing to say? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Could be an ecological nightmare. Take a look at what's going on on the Gulf of Mexico, where so many people are worried about their beaches, worried about their shorelines in states like Florida and Alabama and Mississippi and Louisiana, the Coast of Texas. That is tens of thousands of gallons of oil that just is flowing out of the bottom of the ocean there in the gulf. And folks, they're trying to come up with a way to stop that. I'm going to take you through exactly what it is that they're doing to stop it, if they can. But there is a process, it's taking place, and I'm going to explain it to you.
Now, remember, at the very beginning, they said that they would not have an oil spill. They said they would be able to control this fire. That changed when this collapsed and went into the ocean. And now a couple of those lines are literally torqued or bent and that's what's letting some of the oil out. I'm going to take you through that.
Also, let me show you this. This is one bull that you do not want to take on. Now, the real important part of this story is that matador. He is hurt badly. But who is that matador? That matador is in many ways like our Tom Brady. He is the superstar matador of Spain. Trying to take on 1,000-pound bull and losing. Most of you would say, well, that's not a surprise. But it's a heck of a story. I'm going to help take you through it in just a little bit when I'm joined by my colleague, Rafael Romo who's been looking into this. OK. You ready to go?
RAFAEL ROMO, SR. LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: We're ready.
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's do it. We'll be right back with your list, your national conversation, RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: By the way, I told you about that Tim Tebow segment we're going to be doing in just a little bit. We just had to push that down a little bit. Doesn't mean we're not doing it. Be afraid. Be very afraid. No, be courageous. We will be doing that Tim Tebow segment, but before we do that,Ii want to bring you this on the list.
A bull fight in Mexico where a matador is almost killed. Now, watch what the bull does to this guy. Talk about him. Oh! And it's right in the groin area. Now, what's interesting about this, this guy, Jose Thomas, he is one of the most famous matadors in all of Spain. I mean, this guy is like a Tom Brady, OK? He's a superstar. And this horn apparently went 4 inches just below his groin. And it may have gotten a vein or an artery, causing major blood loss.
So we're really -- what we're really talking about here is Rafael Romo is joining us now -- and what we're really talking about here is the possibility that this guy could have died right there on the spot because of the way he was gored. But first, tell our viewers why is this guy so important? I mean, it's like 24-hour coverage in Spain on this guy.
ROMO: He's known as the best last hope for bull fighting, not only in Spain, but also in Mexico. He was in Mexico doing that on Saturday afternoon. And this was one of the most important bullfighting events of the year in Mexico, the state of Aguascalientes when that happened.
SANCHEZ: So this is still -- when you think of bull fighting, you think of a bit of an antiquated sport that most people still don't revel (ph) in. So, this is still a big deal.
ROMO: Still widely popular in Mexico and Spain, and he is, I would call him the king of bullfighting. He is very well-known. He's only 34. He has a very incredible career. He has --
SANCHEZ: So, he's like a pop idol.
ROMO: Exactly. And this is the second the second time he gets gored.
SANCHEZ: And how serious is this?
ROMO: Very serious. I was reading that he lost about 17 pints of blood and at the arena right there, they were asking for people to donate blood because he has A positive which is kind a rare kind of blood. So, they're asking people, but according to his manager, he's out of danger now. A miracle based on what you saw and the kind of injury that we saw.
SANCHEZ: So, it was like right in the femoral artery coming right into this area right here.
ROMO: It's right in the area where it could have been fatal.
SANCHEZ: Is that your femur - it's the femur here, right?
ROMO: Right next to one of the main arteries in the body. It could have been fatal, but they tell us he's out of danger now.
SANCHEZ: Wow. What a story. Thanks for bringing us that.
ROMO: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it. Interesting story. And to watch the video is to just sit there and want to almost gasp.
ROMO: Scary.
SANCHEZ: Let us drop this now. Take a look at this, folks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAN BREWER, GOVERNOR: People across America are watching Arizona, seeing how we implement this law. Ready to jump on even the slightest misstep.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: The governor gave Arizona's immigration law the green light on Friday. Did she also suggest that they will have a description of what an illegal immigrant looks like? All right. We found that clip that was in question, and I want to bring it to you again so you can hear it for yourself, and then we'll be talking about it with some police officials and obviously the question that remains is, is Arizona only doing with what the federal government has failed to do? Are they simply filling the void? Or, as some say, usurping a federal mandate? We'll get into that.
And then there's Goldman Sachs profiting by betting against America? That's an accusation being raised by some. Was it legal, though? And were they honest to their clients about what they were really doing? These are questions that are all being asked today, and I'll were to be asking for you. Also, I'm going to tell you what the newly discovered e-mails say in this case.
Poppy Harlow has her list. She's joining me in just a little bit. She's telling us what's going on in the market as well, and this is always one of our better segments. So stay there. It's coming back when we come back.
VOICE OF UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, rick, Charlie from Houston, Texas. don't you think the Arizonan people are tired with all the drug smugglers, all the kidnapping, all the murders that go on in that state from illegal aliens? It needs to be stopped and stopped now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. The closing bell is about to ring on Wall Street. We're about four and a half minutes away from that happening or less. CNN Money's Poppy Harlow joins me now. At the top of her list, Goldman Sachs e-mails. Some showing managers gloating over profitable economic troubles. Now, were they -- two things going on here, OK?
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Let's set this thing up. Were they betting against America, as some people are saying? Were they betting against something that was dishonest because they were telling some of their perspective clients just the opposite of what they were actually betting on, and do these e-mails reflect that? We'll get to the legalities in a minute. Take it away.
HARLOW: Sure. Let's talk about the e-mails. I mean, these are millions, and I'm not exaggerating here, of internal Goldman Sachs e- mails that were demanded and that were released over the weekend ahead of the congressional hearing that we're going to have tomorrow that is focusing on how investment banks were involved in the crisis. A lot of that focus will be on Goldman Sachs and the SEC's allegations of fraud. So, let's go through some of those e-mails, Rick, because honestly, from what we've seen in the press, there's no big real smoking gun here.
And I want to get to some there. This is what congressional members have, these exhibits. And they'll be talking about this in the hearing on Capitol Hill tomorrow, but I want to read you first part of an e-mail from Lloyd Blankfein, the CEO of Goldman Sachs, he wrote, of course, we didn't dodge the mortgage mess. We lost money than made more than we lost because of shorts. Shorts mean they're betting that the housing market will fall and then he goes on to say, also it's not over. So, who knows how it will turn out ultimately.
SANCHEZ: Wait, wait. Let me stop you.
HARLOW: Sure.
SANCHEZ: You just said that he was betting on the fact that the housing market would fall.
HARLOW: And you're allowed to do that. It is legal to say that housing prices are inflated. Americans are taking on mortgages they can't afford, therefore, it is plausible that that market will deteriorate. That's legal. He also said, Rick, to be fair to Goldman Sachs here, they don't know how it's going to turn out ultimately. That's what he said. But then, there was a man that was on the management committee at Goldman Sachs, and in 2007, Rick, he said this. He said -- sounds like we'll make some serious money here.
That coming from a man named Donald Mullen (ph). He's talking in response to a rating agency downgrade. A rating agency, Moody's (ph), came out and said we are downgrading this group of mortgages. The housing market is falling, and he said in response, we're going to make serious money. So, there you go, rick.
SANCHEZ: OK. But, here's what you have, you also have people at the time who they were representing, who they were telling that the, they were taking their money and investing it so that they would be able to make money on how well America's real estate market was doing?
HARLOW: You're talking about two people here. You've got John Paulson, the Hedge Fund manager that hired Goldman Sachs and paid Goldman Sachs $15 million to create an instrument that was a whole bunch of mortgages put together, and John Paulson was betting that the housing market was going to fall, and therefore, he was going to make money on this instrument.
SANCHEZ: So, they're --
HARLOW: And Goldman Sachs brought people on the other side. You're exactly right.
SANCHEZ: They were playing one side against the other right? And you're saying that's perfectly legal?
HARLOW: You know what, the question of legality is a great one. I wish I had a clear-cut answer for you. I don't. We talked to securities lawyers. What you're going to hear tomorrow in the hearing is the word material come up. Was the omission of information, the fact that Goldman Sachs did tell their other clients that there was. On the other side, betting heavily against the investment, was that omission of a statement was that material to the case? Was that critical to what was happening?
Was that critical to the downfall of the housing market? It's a lot of legalese, Rick, but that's what you're going to hear, and I think it's a very, very, very fine line as to whether it's legal or not. The SEC says it's not. It's fraud. Goldman Sachs says, yes, it is, and we actually lost money in our bets on the housing market. That's what they'll say.
SANCHEZ: Let's see what the market does now.
HARLOW: Sure.
SANCHEZ: It's getting ready to close.
HARLOW: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And this has been on record highs now for --
HARLOW: It highs.
SANCHEZ: 13, 14 weeks or something like that or more?
HARLOW: Yes, just looking at the market as they close down. Goldman stock down 3.5 percent ahead of the hearing tomorrow. The Dow up slightly just 3 points. Investors are not really knowing which way to go today, Rick. The Nasdaq and the S&P are in the red. So, really a flat line here for stocks. I think Wall Street is really watching Washington right now. We've got a big fed meeting coming up starting tomorrow on interest rates, and we got a big hearing on investment banks and their role in the crisis. And that's really going to determine a lot of how the market moves this week.
SANCHEZ: Poppy Harlow, good stuff. And there we go, taking it right to the bewitching hour as we always call it. We'll see you again tomorrow, OK?
HARLOW: See you tomorrow.
