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Rick's List
Immigration Reform Battle Escalates; Mississippi Tornadoes Turn Deadly
Aired April 26, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: All right. We're going to stay all over this Goldman Sachs story.
I can't get enough of it. I think it's a fascinating story that takes us back to what actually happened two, three years ago, when we were right at height of these things. Tuesday, their CEO and also the executive, was charged with fraud. He's going to testify.
So, what are we doing? We're sending Ali Velshi to Capitol Hill tomorrow. He's going to join me from there.
Matt Taibbi, contributing editor on "Rolling Stone," who has written extensively and prolifically about this, is going to also be talking about this. Matt says that Goldman Sachs has helped to engineer every market manipulation since the Great Depression. He's join my right here at 4:00 Eastern tomorrow.
Now let's talk about the swastikas made from refried beans. You heard me right. It is the very latest reaction to Arizona's immigration law. And that's where we start this next hour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here is what is making your list today.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These reforms will put an end, once and for all, to taxpayer bailouts.
SANCHEZ: We may know during this show if financial reform legislation will move forward. Can President Obama get it through? Or will some Republicans block it, and at what political cost?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they don't get a handle on it, tens of thousands of gallons of product a day, and the winds push it inland, we could have some real challenges.
SANCHEZ: How are they going to stop thousands of gallons of crude oil from flowing into the Gulf? We're drilling down to explain the process to you.
From the sports list: Will Ben Roethlisberger take his medicine?
And why is Tim Tebow's family being described as Nazis? Who said that? And should it stand? You tell me.
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is your list, your national conversation, RICK'S LIST.
Immigration reform is topping our list today. This story in Arizona far from over. And it's having an impact all over the country and certainly in Washington.
I want to you to look at this. Sometime overnight in Phoenix, somebody painted a swastika on the state capitol, and they used refried beans to do it with. They also used beans to paint AZ, Arizona, equals Nazi. That's on the sidewalk there in front of the building.
Now, if -- if that's going on in Arizona, imagine the rancor if Congress tries to take up immigration reform in one form or another, I mean, from one side or another, because it is a polarizing issue.
Arizona's tough new immigration law just might push Washington into action. Senator Harry Reid is moving immigration reform higher up on the agenda suddenly. And he says the Senate will start working on it right after it overhauls financial reform.
And listen to this. I want to show you something. This is RNC Chairman Michael Steele. We have had him on the show several times. He went and met with Hispanic Republican activists to try and do some make-goods on Friday.
And here's what he said -- quote -- "I look forward to our Republican leadership putting on a -- the table good, solid efforts to create the type -- the kind of reform that takes in mind first and foremost the family, that recognizes this is not a nameless composition."
But Republicans in the Senate don't sound eager to take up immigration reform, despite what Mr. Steele is saying. Listen -- listen to Georgia's Senator Saxby Chambliss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R), GEORGIA: Until you secure the border, trying to really have an overall reform package on immigration just simply can't be done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger is looking into this for us.
Wow. I will tell you...
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... there's going to -- you know, I was using the word political shenanigans a little while ago when I was talking to your colleague Jessica Yellin. And it would seem like here's another opportunity for certainly the Democrats to solidify their base...
BORGER: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... given what we know from the past, and, in many ways -- wait -- don't stop there -- for Republicans in many ways to solidify their base as well, right?
BORGER: Right.
I mean, look, immigration reform -- you -- you -- you heard what Chairman Steele said. There's clearly a part of the Republican Party that understands, Rick, that Hispanics are such an important, growing part of this population., that you can't just say no when it comes to an issue like immigration reform.
So, what he's trying to do is encourage Republicans to come up with an alternative. The fact that Harry Reid has now catapulted immigration reform ahead of energy, climate change, which lots of folks thought was going to come first, is a clear indication of the Democratic-based politics...
SANCHEZ: Well, let's look at trends.
BORGER: ... which is...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let's -- let's Look at numbers, you and me.
Put those...
BORGER: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... up, if you got them, Roger. Look -- look how -- look where the -- the Republican trend -- look where Republican trend -- the Hispanic vote is trending.
Gloria, take it away.
BORGER: Yes, exactly. You see how Republicans have lost ground since George W. Bush. Even John McCain, who was very popular with Hispanics, because he was for immigration reform, did very badly with Hispanics in 2008.
Given the growth of the population, it's something that Republicans have to pay attention to. But what John McCain learned during the last campaign, Rick...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BORGER: ... is that, with his base voters, he had to talk about securing the border before doing anything else.
And I will tell you something else. Lots of Republicans right now are not afraid of a vote on immigration reform. With unemployment at 10 percent, a lot of people in this country are a lot less hospitable to the notion of giving citizenship to more immigrants when they're out of work.
SANCHEZ: Yes, but, you know...
BORGER: So, you know, that's going to be a very interesting debate.
SANCHEZ: Why did Arizona suddenly become the -- the -- the place for this very stern, almost resentful immigration thinking?
BORGER: Well, it's always been ground zero, though.
SANCHEZ: Not -- not to -- not to judge -- not to judge it, by the way...
BORGER: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... because you -- one can't help but look at it and say, well, they're the ones being affected by it. But -- but it seems almost rancorous -- 70 percent of the numbers we got from Rasmussen there today on this.
BORGER: Right. You know, but -- but, if you look at the state of Arizona, it's always been ground zero for the issue of immigration, given its -- given its border problems.
People in that state feel very strongly about it. That is why John McCain years ago tried to sort of fix the problem, but it got him in a lot of political hot water now. And now you see that he's kind of moved a bit on this issue, again talking about securing the border first because that's where American public opinion is.
SANCHEZ: And...
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: But, for Democrats...
SANCHEZ: It makes all the sense in the world.
BORGER: ... it's a different story.
SANCHEZ: And there's no -- there's nobody out there who is, it seems to me, either Hispanic, on one side of the issue or the other side of the issue, who doesn't agree, hey, we have got to secure the border, we have got to control who's coming in...
BORGER: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... we have got to figure out who gets to stay, and we have got to kick out all the SOBs who come to this country and commit crimes. Everybody agrees on that on both sides of the issue.
So, why is it so cotton-picking difficult for both sides to come together at the federal level and come up with some kind of comprehensive, if not legislation, at least guidelines, so Arizona doesn't have to lead the country and do this?
BORGER: Well, because you're -- you know, you're talking about different states having different interests. It's a very big economic issue, as you well know, Rick...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BORGER: ... in this country.
And the question of securing the border, you know, what does that exactly mean, Rick?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BORGER: How can you 100 percent secure the border? They have been working in this country on securing the border for decades.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me show...
BORGER: And...
SANCHEZ: Let me show you -- let me show you something else. I don't mean to interrupt, but this is -- this is what this really...
BORGER: Sure.
SANCHEZ: ... comes down to. And it's not really so much a political argument as it is a legal argument, because in the end you can't help but have people saying, wait a minute, that's -- that's profiling. Listen to what the governor said Friday.
And I want to look specifically what her words are in the advice she gives to her police board, the state police board.
Pick that up, Rog, if you got it, again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JAN BREWER (R), ARIZONA: I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like.
I can tell you that I think there are people in Arizona that assume they know what an illegal immigrant looks like. I don't know if they know that for a fact or not. But I know that if AZ POST gets themselves together, works on this law, puts down the description, that the law will be enforced civilly, fairly, and without discriminatory points to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: She says, "I don't know what they look like," but the AZ Post, which is the -- state police board, will put down a description telling us what they look like.
This is bound to have all -- is going to be rife with problems...
BORGER: Well...
SANCHEZ: ... isn't it?
BORGER: Well, first of all, it's going to wind up in the courts, obviously.
And you -- you know, even President Obama last week talked about the civil rights implications of all of this. But, on a practical level, Rick, you're turning police officers into immigration officers. And that's not their job.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BORGER: And I think lots of police officers will be the first to tell you that's not their job.
SANCHEZ: Well, and, you know...
BORGER: And so
SANCHEZ: ... in the next 90 days -- I went and made some phone calls today. We called the -- the Phoenix guys and the Maricopa guys, and they say, look, we're still working our way through this. We know what the law is, but we haven't quite exactly figured how we're going to make this work for our guys yet either, because they're vulnerable, right.
BORGER: Right.
And -- and, you know, and getting back to Congress here, this kind of debate in Arizona crystallizes the debate that you have over immigration reform in Washington...
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
BORGER: ... which is, how far do you take it? And, you know, what -- what you're going to see, if the issue does come up in the Senate with -- in the -- in the near future, or before the election, you're going to see Democrats staking out a position...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BORGER: ... much like what John McCain and Ted Kennedy did a while back, and you will see Republicans talking more about what you just saw Saxby Chambliss talking about, which is, before we do anything, secure the border.
And what Michael Steele is saying is, come out with an alternative...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BORGER: ... because, when it comes to this issue, you have to be somewhere on it.
SANCHEZ: The question is going to be, will they be able to somehow find the middle? And that's why you and I will be watching... (LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: ... to see if, in fact, they can.
Gloria, always a pleasure. Really enjoyed the conversation.
BORGER: Sure.
SANCHEZ: All right.
BORGER: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Take care.
BORGER: Me, too.
SANCHEZ: Take -- take a look at this. There's a police chief in Arizona who believes that this law is going to be good for his community. He's Hispanic.
This is interesting. He supports this and he is an Hispanic police chief. He says his town needs this law to crack down on illegal immigrants. And, tomorrow, we have got him booked. He was going to come on today, by the way, he had something come it, and he wasn't able to make it.
So, tomorrow, here on RICK'S LIST, I will be talking to this Hispanic police chief who supports, vigorously, this new Arizona law. It will be good.
Watch this. You talk about a monster funnel cloud. This thing is a mile wide and on the verge of plowing right through the heart of Yazoo, Mississippi. It's one of the most powerful images we have seen from this weekend's storm that killed so many people. That's ahead.
And, then, for everyone who's ever asked, "What was President Bush thinking?," we now have answers of exactly what he was thinking. The preview of his new memoir, that's coming up.
In fact, I got it for you next. Stay right there, as your list, RICK'S LIST, scrolls on.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CALLER: Hey, Rick. It's (INAUDIBLE) calling from Florida.
I want to comment on the immigration bill in Arizona. I personally believe it's racism. I think they are targeting specifically Spanish people. If these people won't like this bill, it would never become law. It's about race. I don't care what they say. It's about racism.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: From the follow-up list now, what we're keeping an eye on for you today.
All right, let me started with a lady. See, there -- you're going to see a lady right there see that? See that? That's Laura Silsby, remember, the American still in custody in Haiti, the only U.S. missionary who was still accused of trying to kidnap Haitian children after the earthquake.
Today, a judge in Port-au-Prince threw out the kidnapping charges, but Laura Silsby isn't coming home just yet. She's going to stand trial now on a less serious charge, that of arranging irregular travel. That's the Italian -- the Haitian term for people-smuggling.
Silsby's fellow missionaries, all back in the states, they no longer face any charges in Haiti whatsoever.
Let's move to Ben Roethlisberger. He's going to fight the six-game NFL suspension? No. No, he will not. Here's what he said today -- quote -- "Though I have committed no crime, I regret that I have fallen short of the values instilled in me by my family. I will not appeal the suspension and will comply with what is asked of me and more."
Roethlisberger released that statement online, by the way.
All right, now let's talk about this. George W. Bush, former president, soon-to-be author, his memoir out this fall. "Decision Points" is what it's called. There it is. Good-looking cover, isn't it?
It focuses on what the former president calls 14 critical decisions that he made during his life and also in his time at the White House. His much disputed election, 9/11, launching the war on Iraq, Hurricane Katrina are just a few of the highlights.
His publisher, Crown, announced today the release date, November 9. That is one week after the midterm elections.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I would proudly say, I'm from the great state of Arizona, because I was raised here. I grew up here. I don't know if I can say that so proudly. I don't know if I even want to live here anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is one heck of a soldier's story. Arizona's law -- Arizona is his home state, and for this soldier who's grown up there and always as a proud Arizonan, now he seems to be having second thoughts about this, and he's having these second thoughts just as he's getting ready to leave for Afghanistan for the front lines to defend the United States of America.
His family throws him a going away party, and we're there. And you will hear some of the opinions expressed by this family as they get ready to send their son off to war from Arizona. It's a hell of a story.
By the way, who would compare quarterback Tim Tebow and his family to a bunch of Nazis, I mean, to call them a bunch of Nazis? wouldn't that person need to be called out after they said something like that? Well, guess what's next on the list that you don't want to be on in a just a few minutes?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez, the show watched by many people who love to be online.
All right, I love lists, right?
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Pretty much obvious.
So, this weekend, I was like a kid in a candy store with my favorite list story of them all, the NFL football draft. So, my wife would walk by from time to time in amazement as I sat there cheering and looking at graphics on TV and calling my brothers and my buddies and my son, as my wife went -- all right.
So, I would look to see who went in the second round, who went in the third round? And, then, as I watched, Tim Tebow, he got picked up in the first round. And it was right there on ESPN. And they showed video of his family with their "Leave It to Beaver" looks that we have all kind of come to know.
It's true. I mean, they seem like the classic all-American family. But then somebody said something else. And that's why the person who has said that something else is today featured on the list that you don't want to be on.
This is Fred Toettcher. He's a radio host in Boston. And this is what he said about the Tebow family celebration that I saw on draft night -- quote -- "It looked like some kind of Nazi rally, so lily- white is what I'm trying to say. Yes, Stepford Wives."
That's a quote. A Nazi rally? Toettcher, I mean, there's the family. You're looking at them now. Here's the deal. Yes, there were no Latino faces in the family, nor were there black folks or Lithuanians, for that matter.
But what were they supposed to do, go recruit some for this photo-op? That's their family. He's a white, Southern, Christian young man from a very straight-laced family. That's who he is. So what? That's his family. They're excited. It may be the greatest day in this young man's life, and somebody has to call him a Nazi?
By the way, can we just stop using Nazi as a cheap and easy comparison to just about everything, please?
Here's what sports jock Fred Toettcher had sent to us as a statement, because he knew we looking into this today. "Anyone who listens to the show regularly knows that I am not the most articulate person in the world. And, on Friday, I made a regrettable statement about the Tim Tebow draft party that ended up offending some people. I apologize."
Apology shared. Accepted? That's up to his audience. Fred Toettcher goes today to the very top of list that you don't want to be on.
Injured soldiers are being isolated in -- quote -- "warehouses of despair," while being turned into depressed addicts. That's what "The New York Times" is writing about our returning soldiers. And I'm drilling down on that, because it's something all Americans should be looking at. That's ahead.
Also, this is what a -- a mile-wide funnel cloud looks like. Did you hear about these -- these tornadoes in Mississippi and parts of Alabama this weekend? We have got the video, and I'm going to be sharing it with you. It's spectacular.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
Boy, did you see what happened over the weekend? What a story from our follow-up list, dramatic video from that devastating tornado. This is in Yazoo City, Mississippi. Look at the size of this thing. Look how wide it is. You know, usually, when you see a tornado, it almost looks like -- like some -- like a spinning top, and you can see it looked like a line that goes into the -- into the sky?
Well, they're saying this thing was about a mile wide, and with speeds of about -- about 170 miles an hour. And, remember, sometimes, within those large tornadoes, there's like a tornado inside the tornado. It -- it traveled about 150 miles across Mississippi, before weakening as it moved into parts of Alabama. Look at that.
A massive cleanup has been under way. It has killed at least 12 people. Ten of them killed in Mississippi. Look at the damage it left behind. Large portions of the state were left without power.
Governor Haley Barbour is requesting emergency federal aid at this time. And we understand that FEMA is just now arriving on the scene today.
Also part of that broad band of storms...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow. Wow!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, wow is right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow. Holy crap.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Oops. A tornado touched down in Darlington County, South Carolina. It toppled the trees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy crap.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We heard you, buddy.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Downed power lines. Three people were hospitalized when their home blew over.
This is on Main Street. Part of the roof of Cain Elementary School blown off. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my gosh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You can see it right there. Now, this is still much smaller than the one that we showed you about in Mississippi.
And -- as we understand, they're still assessing the damage.
Here's a big story. Remember the Walter Reed scandal where soldiers back from Iraq and Afghanistan were subjected to horrible medical conditions? Well, is history suddenly repeating itself? Is it even worse for the soldiers coming back now from Iraq and Afghanistan? Are they being put in lost holes of despair? You should see the details coming out on the story.
That's ahead. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I worry, will my family live in peace? And what good is keeping us safe here if we lose ourselves, if we lose a part of what makes America so great?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This soldier's got his green card, but his family doesn't. That has him very worried about Arizona's new immigration law. A compelling conversation with him, a soldier who's getting ready to defend our country, but is no longer proud of the place he used to call his home state, Arizona. It's "A Soldier's Story." That's all it is. But you'll hear it. That's ahead.
Also, outing a politician for being straight? Outing a politician for being straight, it's happening in Philadelphia, where one candidate is accused of pretending to be a homosexual so that he can attract gay voters, but he's not really gay. Yes.
That's part of "The Brooke Block." It's coming up in just -- here it comes, Brooke. I'll tell you, I'm still scratching my head trying to figure that one out. Yes.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It's time now for "The Brooke Block."
And I've been giving you grief all day long.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You have. Be nice to me, Rick Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: I will from now on. I'm going to be very nice to you.
Hey, this story that you're bringing us about this man --
BALDWIN: This politician.
SANCHEZ: -- his opponent is saying you're not really gay, but you're acting like you're gay for political reasons.
What the heck is that all about?
BALDWIN: OK. So a lot of people -- you know, people have skeletons, right? But in this particular case, politicians sometimes have some sexual skeletons. And normally it's the gay politician who's pretending to be straight, but sometimes the opponent will out him or her for being a homosexual.
But in a House race in Pennsylvania, the incumbent candidate is apparently outing her opponent as being straight. Her stump speech caught on tape in which she says he lied about his sexuality.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BABETTE JOSEPHS, PENNSYLVANIA STATE HOUSE: I outed him as a straight person, and now he goes around telling people, "I swing both ways." What a respectful way to talk about sexuality, right? This guy is just a gem.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: So she's accusing him of pretending to be gay?
BALDWIN: She's accusing him of pretending to be gay. That's precisely it. That's precisely the story. OK?
So that was Representative Babette Josephs. She's the incumbent in the 182nd District in Pennsylvania talking about her opponent in the May primary. Talking about Gregg Kravitz.
So, I got her on the phone to explain, what did she mean? Here's what she told me.
"I wasn't artful, but I was making a point. My point was that sexuality does not matter. Nobody cares."
"What matters is a record of achievement. I have a long and proud record of achievement in working with the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender community in the state and the city, and he has none."
So, want to put this to Gregg Kravitz. He's on the phone.
Gregg, are you with me?
GREGG KRAVITZ, CANDIDATE: Yes, I'm here.
BALDWIN: OK. Let me just clear the air. Are you gay? Are you straight?
KRAVITZ: I am bisexual. I am an openly bisexual male.
BALDWIN: Have you ever -- go ahead.
KRAVITZ: No, continue.
BALDWIN: Have you ever lied about your sexuality or led someone to believe otherwise for your political gain?
KRAVITZ: No. I have never lied about my sexuality, and very bluntly, I have never spoken about my sexuality with Babette Josephs.
BALDWIN: You nerve have?
KRAVITZ: Never have. OK?
SANCHEZ: Well, wait, wait, wait.
KRAVITZ: OK? These are -- this was a tirade of lies. I don't know if you played the rest of the audio clip, but she made patently false statements in addition about my sexuality. She also made patently false statements about my personal finances, and she made them about my employment history.
SANCHEZ: But were you just about to say -- hey, sorry. It's Rick Sanchez. And I'm just curious.
KRAVITZ: Hi, Rick. SANCHEZ: You proudly came out and announced to everybody watching on CNN right now and to Brooke, which made me go, wow, you don't usually hear people be so blunt about something like this. You said, "I am a bisexual," and then you were going to say something else. I think about to explain your bisexualism.
Have at it, man.
KRAVITZ: Well, what I was going to say is this -- Representative Josephs' remarks that you mentioned just now when you followed up with her today are completely twisting the story.
It was not me that has made sexuality an issue in this campaign. It was Representative Josephs when she chose to mock my sexuality in a public, at a public fund-raising event, in an attempt to win more support from some of her supporters.
BALDWIN: Now, this is -- I read a little about the 182nd District. It's a left-leaning district. There is a large gay community. We're talking about Philadelphia County.
Do you think that one's sexuality is pertinent in this particular district in this particular race?
KRAVITZ: No, it's not. And it's the reason that I don't mention it as a regular part of my stump speech. When I do mention my sexuality, it's in the context of LGBT rights.
SANCHEZ: Well, why did you mention it at all?
KRAVITZ: Well, because when I'm speaking in front of an LGBT audience, and we're having a discussion about LGBT rights, I think it it's important for people who are either in the LGBT community or their allies to know that if I'm elected into office, I'm a person that actually has a personal investment in these issues. Furthermore, I also think it would be beneficial if some of the more socially conservative legislators in Harrisburg, our state capital, has a positive working experience with the members of the LGBT community.
BALDWIN: All right, Gregg. Got to go.
SANCHEZ: What a story.
BALDWIN: What a story.
Thank you for coming on and being honest. And we appreciate it.
Gregg Kravitz calling in from Philadelphia.
Thank you.
I've got one more story on --
SANCHEZ: Can you top that?
BALDWIN: I'm going to try. I've got one more story on my list, pretty good pictures, at least. Right?
Take a look at this. That's an explosion from last Tuesday, that oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 42,000 gallons leaking.
SANCHEZ: Now, this is interesting. You and I have been talking about this throughout the course of the day.
BALDWIN: Because the priority is stopping the leak.
SANCHEZ: According to the CNN report filed last night by part of the CNN investigation team that's looking into this, as they explain it -- hey, Rog, give me a shot out here. Let's kind of do this together.
Tell me if this kind of explains -- we just got a straw, right? A straw is pretty simple. When that thing that you were looking at right there finally crashed and burned, what it did is it bent the pipe.
See that bend -- can you go tighter? See where the pipe bends? Let me hold it like that.
Where the pipe bends, apparently, right, that's where they're getting a lot of leakage from.
BALDWIN: They're getting leakage, obviously, from the top and from the bottom.
SANCHEZ: But they want to cap it right there.
BALDWIN: They want to cap it. In fact, what's really great, I found these pictures. Let's talk about this thing. It's called the blowout preventer.
OK, so this is a steel device. It's the size of a house. It's on top of the well, and that's where part of the leak is coming. I think that's what you're trying to illustrate with your straw.
SANCHEZ: Well, there's two things. There's the pipe that bends --
BALDWIN: There's the top and then there's --
SANCHEZ: -- and then there's -- where it comes from all the way at the bottom.
BALDWIN: The base.
SANCHEZ: Right, the base.
BALDWIN: So, what's kind of cool is they are having to remotely control it.
Let's go to the second picture if we can, because they have these robotic arms, and they have to shut it off. They have to activate it remotely, so that's the robotic arm doing what you're illustrating at the top of the straw, shutting off, kind of capping that leak. That's part of it. The other part is going under water and trying -- and this is going to take a lot of time, months and months, to stop the oil from leaking at the base.
SANCHEZ: At the base. Right. Right.
BALDWIN: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: Yes. As I saw it last night -- one more time, Rog, if you can. And there's the oil that's leaking, by the way.
BALDWIN: There's all the oil.
SANCHEZ: Give me the shot over here.
As we understand it -- and this is according to what we saw on CNN -- you can't see the base here. Get rid of that stuff on the bottom. You can't see it. Down, down.
All right. Take the camera, tilt -- tilt down. Down.
BALDWIN: You can't go anymore, they're saying.
SANCHEZ: Can't tilt it. All right. I'll bring it up here.
All right. There's the bottom where the leak is. Right? At the very base where the ocean is right there, they're literally going in with another drill to try to take it from there to be able to pump it out.
BALDWIN: To stop it at the origin at the bottom. So bottom and top.
SANCHEZ: Exactly. I sat there last night just reading this stuff. I was marveling at what they're going to have to do to stop this.
BALDWIN: It's going to take months, though. And then you have all the oil, all the slicks still in the water.
SANCHEZ: Good stuff.
BALDWIN: All right.
SANCHEZ: Wow. What a story, the one out of Pennsylvania.
BALDWIN: I know.
SANCHEZ: We'll be right back. But when we come back, "A Soldier's Story."
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back. This is RICK'S LIST, your national conversation, your list.
And we've got some folks in our studio today. They come here to visit, as I always say, and see the show for themselves. Look, and they've got the wave down already as well.
Glad to see you guys. Hope you enjoy your stay.
I want you all to watch this story. This is a fascinating story. It is "A Soldier's Story" who's getting ready to ship out. Before he does, he sits down with his family to have one final dinner, and he tells them that he's no longer so proud to be from the state of Arizona.
The conversation will certainly grip you, as this story is told by our own Thelma Gutierrez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PFC. JOSE MEDINA, U.S. ARMY: I'm here because this is something that's close to my heart. I went off to protect this country and protect my family. That's what hurts. It's my job to try and save lives.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Private First Class Jose Medina is 20 years old, an Army medic, home on leave in Arizona.
MEDINA: I remember when I first joined the military. They would ask, "Where are you from?" And I was proud to say I'm from the great state of Arizona, because I was raised here, I grew up here. I don't know if I can say that so proudly. I don't know if I want to live here any more.
GUTIERREZ: For Medina, this is personal.
(on camera): You were not born in this country?
MEDINA: No, I wasn't.
GUTIERREZ: You were born in Mexico?
MEDINA: That's right. Originally.
I came here illegally when I was two.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): But now he has his green card.
MEDINA: I thought I (INAUDIBLE). This country has given me so much.
When I heard of the law that passed, I couldn't believe it because the America that I know, the freedom, the liberties that we enjoy, are for everyone. It's a shame, because I loved the state. I grew up here. But a state that doesn't even want you here?
I might take this uniform off, and I'm just another Hispanic.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): Why do people feel indignant about being asked to produce an I.D. that they ought to have?
MEDINA: It's an insult, almost, because the color of your skin, because you're not white. GUTIERREZ: Is this that you resent the fact that you could be stopped and asked for your papers while you're fighting for this country? Is that what angers you?
MEDINA: It's not so much anger, it's hurt that, you know, that could happen to me, it could happen to my family, my friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING IN SPANISH).
MEDINA: Come on, man. Come eat.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Hours before his flight, Jose Medina invited us to his going away dinner.
"VICTOR", CLOSE FAMILY FRIEND: You may go to Afghanistan, you may go to Iraq. After this night, man, we may not see you again.
You're offering your life for this country, for all of us, but you might maybe stopped (ph) tomorrow by your (INAUDIBLE).
MEDINA: It's my duty to go and do what I have to do.
GUTIERREZ: Before Jose Medina left Arizona, he told me he was leaving with a heavy heart.
MEDINA: I worry, will my family live in peace. And what good is keeping us safe here if we lose ourselves, if we lose a part of what makes America so great? We drive here into (ph) our own people's hearts.
GUTIERREZ: Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Phoenix, Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Interesting story, isn't it, to tell that perspective?
What did you guys think of that over there? Just kind of -- did you watch it? It's interesting to watch his perspective as he gets ready to go off to war. Maybe we'll get a chance to talk about it.
You guys stay there.
Wolf Blitzer joins me in just a little bit. And I'll be reading your tweets during the commercial.
We'll be right back with RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Look who's back. It's my pal, Ovaltine, Wolf Blitzer. He took a couple of days off, but he's back.
Good to see you, Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It's good to go. Good to come back.
SANCHEZ: OK. I read one of your tweets while you were out, and --
BLITZER: Think I know which one. SANCHEZ: And I've got to ask you about this. You know I love you like a brother. Right?
BLITZER: I do. I know that, yes.
SANCHEZ: "I'm taking a few days off. Tried Pilates. I'll let you know how it feels after" -- what are you doing there?
BLITZER: Pilates, Rick. What's the matter with you? You don't know what Pilates are?
SANCHEZ: Were you in tights doing this or something?
BLITZER: No, no. Pilates, it's a good exercise. It works on the core. You get to stretch a little bit. It feels pretty good.
SANCHEZ: You watch football all weekend. You're a regular guy.
BLITZER: You've got to exercise.
SANCHEZ: You grew up in Buffalo. You're doing Pilates?
BLITZER: I'm running too. I'm running.
I tried Pilates twice. I'll tell you this -- on the last vacation I tried yoga. Did not like yoga.
SANCHEZ: You didn't like yoga.
BLITZER: Pilates I liked a little bit more. Didn't love it, but I liked it a little bit more. I still like a good sweat. So I like to run on a treadmill.
SANCHEZ: So this is something I should try? Is that what you're saying?
BLITZER: Do you like to stretch?
SANCHEZ: No. I like to play football.
BLITZER: Do you like to sit? Is that what you're saying?
SANCHEZ: I like to watch football.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, man.
BLITZER: I recommend it if you like -- people love Pilates. I've got to tell you.
SANCHEZ: Well, I know. All the gals on my team love it.
BLITZER: Well, you know, I'm willing to try it.
SANCHEZ: What do you guys think of this guy, huh? Isn't he wonderful, this Wolf Blitzer?
I've got my peeps in the house here, Wolf.
BLITZER: They look like nice peeps over there.
SANCHEZ: Well, they're from Ohio.
BLITZER: Ohio's a great place.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
And California?
All right. We got Californians and Ohioans there.
Hey, before I let you go, it's always good to hang out with you, Wolf, but this financial reform thing, we're going to know during your hour. So this is really a vexing time for this thing.
What's it look like? What are you hearing?
BLITZER: Well, right now it looks like the Democrats are not going to get enough votes to allow this to go forward. They need at least one Republican who's going to join them. It doesn't look like they have it. But, you know, there always could be a last-minute surprise.
They're supposed to start voting right at the top of the hour. We'll see if they do. The Senate always have a tendency to let things slip a little bit, as you know.
SANCHEZ: Well, if it is one person, it's going to be Olympia Snowe, right?
BLITZER: Olympia Snowe. You know, there was some talk of Chuck Grassley, the Republican senator from Iowa.
SANCHEZ: Really?
BLITZER: Who knows? A lot of Republicans want this, including Richard Shelby, the ranking member the committee, the Republican from Alabama. They just aren't with the Democrats yet on all the details. Eventually, I suspect, they'll get it, but probably not going forward today.
SANCHEZ: Welcome back, my friend.
BLITZER: Good to be back. Try Pilates, if you like it.
SANCHEZ: You pilates fiend, you.
Wolf Blitzer, look forward to seeing you on "THE SITUATION ROOM" today, all fresh and Pilated (ph) up.
Wounded soldier seeking treatment finding deplorable conditions. The post that's coming under fire, where is it? Well, this is interesting, because a lot of Americans are starting to wonder whether we're doing enough for the soldiers who come back from Afghanistan and Iraq. This report details that maybe we're not, and we're going to look into this.
Stay right there. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. It's five minutes before the hour of 5:00. This is your national conversation, your list, RICK'S LIST.
I'm Rick Sanchez.
This is a story that should give us some pause, and really a great deal of pause. It's a claim that we're failing people who fight our wars and come home in need of repair. Think about this.
Remember the scandal at Walter Reed, wounded American troops crammed into poorly-equipped rooms, beset with bugs and leaky ceilings? Well, we said that we'd never let that happen again, but let me read to you now from a front-page story in yesterday's "New York Times" about the Wounded Warrior Unit at Fort Carson, Colorado, referred to in this story as -- listen to what they write.
They call it a "warehouse of despair." "Damaged men and women are kept out of sight, fed a diet of powerful prescription drugs and treated harshly by noncommissioned officers." It goes on to say that many have become addicted, a lot of them go through severe depression.
And just a short time ago, the Army fired back at this report. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GEN. ERIC SCHOOMAKER, ARMY SURGEON GENERAL: That sentence alone is among the most offensive to us, and I think it wholly describes a situation that we feel is not present. And we welcome you and any member of the press to go out and physically visit Warrior Transition Units to talk with those soldiers, to talk with their cadre, and to see the larger context of health care that's being delivered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Boy, it gets down to the question about who's telling the truth here? I mean, if you think about -- first, he's saying that, in essence, General -- the Army surgeon General, Schoomaker, is saying that he found The Times report offensive. But part of what The Times report says just makes your jaw drop -- "warehouses of despair, where damaged men and women are kept out of sight, fed a diet of powerful prescription drugs." It goes on to say that Fort Carson's unit has made their treatment worse.
I mean, this thing goes on and on.
Barbara Starr is our Pentagon correspondent, and she's joining us now. She's been looking at this thing all day long, trying to put it together.
Where's the truth here, Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Rick, it all lies somewhere in between. Three Army generals came out and participated in this briefing that said "The New York Times" article was absolutely not true, that these are not warehouses of despair, these are special units set up not just to treat the combat wounded, I should mention, but those who become ill or injured in the Army. But there certainly are problems in these units.
A lot of soldiers will tell you that they are handed a pharmacy of drugs, including painkillers to take. And there are problems with illegal drugs in this unit.
In fact, at Fort Carson, in the last two and a half years, they've had nearly 90 cases of illegal drugs. Alcohol remain as problem.
But for the troops who are wounded, some of them say they feel a little shut away. But I have talked myself to many of them who want to be in these units because they feel that they really get focused care, that if they were back with their combat units, that's when they would feel more isolated, because they're not able to do the job until they get better.
So it's a mixed picture.
SANCHEZ: Well, but it's not just what happens there, it's what happens after. We know that there's a suicide problem that you and I have been talking about on the air, and oftentimes the prescription for suicide is addiction to these drugs, that we may be, as a society, overuse, and may be overusing it at the military level as well.
Correct?
STARR: Oh, I mean, the notion, the problem of prescription drug abuse, as we know, both in American society, but in the military, amongst the wounded, is very serious. And the Army says they're cracking down.
But make no mistake. Prescription drug use, especially for opiate painkiller drugs, is at an all-time high. And we have talked to many wounded troops who tell us they're tired of being handed these pills.
They want help. They want counseling. They want treatment. They don't want to be on pills for the rest of their lives, and it's a big concern, Rick. No question about it.
SANCHEZ: Keep looking into this, because I think we owe it to these guys to make these situations for them when they come back as good as we possible can, as all Americans.
Thanks so much, Barbara.
Let's go now to Wolf Blitzer. He's standing by. He's back. And here now, "THE SITUATION ROOM."
