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Rick's List
Immigration Firestorm in Arizona; Oil Slick Threatens U.S. Shoreline
Aired April 29, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: There are so many stories that we're following on this day and so many developments within those stories, it would take too long to explain them all. Suffice it to say, on the immigration front, there is breaking news that affects the Arizona law.
Let's see the rest of the LIST.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making the LIST on this day.
Other states are now considering this.
GOV. JAN BREWER (R), ARIZONA: I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like. If AZ POST gets themselves together, works on this law, puts down the description, the law will be enforced.
SANCHEZ: AZ POST is the state police board. What will its description be? And how do they keep it constitutional?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trust us.
SANCHEZ: I will have an exclusive interview with them.
GORDON BROWN, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Get real, because Iran, you're saying, might be able to have a nuclear weapon, and you wouldn't take action against them, but you're saying that we have got to give up our Trident submarines and our nuclear weapon.
SANCHEZ: You're going to see live what many Americans wish our presidential debates looked like on issues that affect all of us.
(on camera): The only thing that people who have come to this country undocumented do is kill and murder and destroy lives of police officers, et cetera. I mean, that's what your tone sounds like.
(voice-over): What do the actual Arizona crime statistics say? You want the facts? I have got the facts.
Whoa. What is that? And is there anybody inside?
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now. (END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. It's time for your national conversation, your list, RICK'S LIST.
And, boy, this first story, the one that tops our list today is impactful, powerful and very visual. This is an oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, and it's now, have you heard, worse than anyone thought, soon to hit shore. That's important.
Let me take you through the area that we're talking about here. As you look at these maps, you see all the different cities and all the different states, from Saint Louis Bay to Long Beach, all the way down to Biloxi, all the way to Pascagoula, stretching into other parts of little Sand Island, going to Gulf Shores, and eventually ending up in Pensacola.
That's how many different places can be affected by this thing, hopefully not more than two or three of them at the same time, but it really all depends on the winds and the currents.
We're talking as far west as the Mississippi Delta. Let me show you what we're seeing, coastal areas right now making preparations, scurrying about to try and keep this stuff out.
Here's the problem. There may be much more of it coming, now up to four million gallons spewing out of this busted oil pipe or pipes some 5,000 feet beneath the surface.
Let's bring in Chad Myers right away. We're going to be looking at a series of pictures and a series of visuals to show what they're doing. And I guess the first part is, they are hoping they can burn a whole bunch of this stuff off, right?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Right. They can't today.
SANCHEZ: No.
MYERS: The winds are too strong. They cannot lasso the oil, they cannot light it on fire with winds at 20 knots.
SANCHEZ: But we have got pictures that I have been looking at...
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Yesterday, last night.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Those are the ones that we just got fed. Can we see those, guys? Can we take a look at some of those pics of that -- there it is. Can you tell us what that is?
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: That is the lassoed oil. They took a big boom. They rolled around in it and they made this oil more concentrated, so to speak, thicker on the surface. Then they lit it on fire. You asked me a great question earlier. How come the boom didn't burn? How come that thing, that lasso didn't burn? That's a nonflammable lasso, a boom that they put around it.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: They lit it on fire. And they burned it off. And that was a successful burn.
SANCHEZ: Two pieces of information that you need to take us through today. We learned this morning when we woke up when the Coast Guard said to us this thing is a lot bigger than we originally thought. How much bigger?
MYERS: Yes, 5,000 barrels a day compared to 1,000 barrels a day. What does that mean? That is...
SANCHEZ: Five times bigger.
MYERS: ... we thought 42,000 gallons a day. Now it looks like it could be 200,000 gallons still leaking a day because of a new leak that they found yesterday when they took the submersible down there and they looked at it and they found it all the way down to the bottom of the ocean, the BOP. That's the blow-off pressure valve. That kind of stops any more oil from coming out. It's not working.
SANCHEZ: Oh.
MYERS: It is not shut off.
SANCHEZ: Oh, my goodness.
MYERS: So, oil is still coming out. So, the two right leaks we knew about those, the ones on the right. The one on the left, above the BOP, that's still leaking. And that's where NASA and NOAA and all those other guys yesterday, last night, 10:30 press conference last night -- we were here on "A.C. 360," and they announced that that could be 5,000 barrels, 200,000 gallons of oil, coming out every day still.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: This thing is even getting more significant than we originally thought. Obviously, it's growing in intensity.
The impact could be more severe. It's starting to seem a couple of things. First of all, why is this surprising us now? Why didn't these folks have their act together? Now, that's a question I have to ask.
Now I'm also wondering if may need a more united front, including perhaps the U.S. military.
I want to go to Chris Lawrence. He's our Pentagon correspondent. Let's bring him in, Chad. (CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Chris Lawrence, are you there?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Sure, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Hey, listen, I'm hearing that this thing is getting so big that it may not just be the Coast Guard by itself or the locals off of the Gulf there and these states that are going to have to handle it, but, in fact, that we might need some kind of military intervention.
What have you learned? What do you know about this?
LAWRENCE: Well, Rick, it's not a hypothetical anymore. It's not a question of may. The U.S. military is stepping into this problem. We have learned that the U.S. Navy has sent about 66,000 feet of that inflatable boom down there. That's that tubing that can be used to kind of roped off and gather the spill.
The Navy has also sent seven skimming systems. That's where the point once you collect that oil to try to get it off the surface of the water. And they have also sent about 50 civilian contractors down there to work with the teams already going.
You made a great point by a lot of officials now saying that this is a lot worse than they initially thought and the problem is getting worse, not better, at this point. That's why they're now using the Pensacola Naval Air Station as sort of a staging ground, because if this is going to take longer time than they initially thought, you are going to need room to stage all those pumps and barges and things like that.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
Chris Lawrence, my thanks to you for bringing us up to date on what our military is doing on this situation.
And one more thing with you, Chad.
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Does it seem to you like this is starting to catch some of these folks by surprise? And, as a journalist, I guess I have to ask the question to keep the heat on these people. Are they losing control of this thing? Shouldn't -- who is doing what here I guess is the frustrated question I ask you?
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: I believe they are going to lose control of the containment booms that they're trying to protect the seashore with. The waves are too big at 20 knots. The oil is going to go over those booms. So, we are going to get water and oil on land tonight.
There's also a flood watch. SANCHEZ: Tonight? Tonight?
MYERS: Oh, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
MYERS: Now, the first ones are going to be tar balls. They are going to be the dried, old oil.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I'm familiar with this, growing up in Florida.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: In Miami, you see them on the beaches all the time. Those tar balls are going to be the first things.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: They don't affect things too bad.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But this is not going to look the Valdez in Alaska, right, or will it? What's the difference?
MYERS: Well, the difference is that was heavy sour crude. This is light sweet crude, completely -- two completely separate animals. The oil that is coming out now is actually a higher-grade crude oil, and so it evaporates quicker and it is more volatile and it will catch on fire like they burned it off yesterday.
Get that wind to stop, they can burn more off.
SANCHEZ: And the Valdez, you couldn't that with, because it was too thick.
MYERS: No, no, and too cold.
SANCHEZ: You know the answers to these things, and I appreciate it. And you know what? Could you just keep tabs with us all throughout this show? As soon as we know anything, coming on, and if they start burning some of this stuff -- but you don't think they're going to do it?
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: I don't think they can do it with this wind.
SANCHEZ: All right. No. If the wind dies down and they do it, let us know.
MYERS: OK.
SANCHEZ: Meanwhile, take a look at this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID CAMERON, LEADER, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE PARTY: The Liberal Democrats would make it much, much worse.
NICK CLEGG, LEADER, U.K. LIBERAL DEMOCRAT PARTY: No. No. David Cameron, what would the cap be?
CAMERON: Well, you would set the cap.
CLEGG: No, what is the number?
(CROSSTALK)
CLEGG: Is it 10? Is it 10,000? Is it 10 million?
(CROSSTALK)
CAMERON: You're reminding me of Gordon last week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You are moments away from watching what many say our debates should look like, live from London town, their version of lefties and moderates and conservatives, like ours, arguing over issues, though, that affect you and me, too.
Also, look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: The bottom line is that the system is broken. Thousands and thousands of illegals come across the border. We reject people who should legally be here because they're needed, and we need to fix this system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: What did Gomer Pyle used to say? Surprise, surprise. Has Arizona pushed the feds to act? Looky here. The Democrats today came out, without anybody expecting it, and they unveiled an immigration reform package to compete with what Arizona's doing. Jessica Yellin has news. She has this complete story for us, and that's in her list, and that's coming up next. Stay right there, folks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is your list, RICK'S LIST.
Here's another politician trying to make political hay on the immigration issue. I want you to listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD) TIM JAMES (R), ALABAMA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: This is Alabama. We speak English. If you want to live here, learn it. We're only giving that test in English if I'm governor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Sounds tough, doesn't he? That's Republican Tim James saying if you want a driver's license in the state of Alabama, you're going to have to take the test in English, if he's elected governor.
These things are popping up all over the place, you know, Arizona, then other states where they're now considering similar laws. And I have got some news for you out of Washington. You ready for this? There's surprising news out of Washington.
First, I want you to listen to President Obama saying that the U.S. Congress needs to step in, but it's a question of when. All right, this is the president. He was speaking. And I'm going to take you through the entire enthymeme here. This is the president. He was speaking on Air Force One. Tough to listen to, but hear him out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have to do more, though, in the context of a comprehensive plan that maintains our status as a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants.
And this kind of -- these kinds of shortcuts I think will end up polarizing the situation, instead of solving the problem.
We have gone through a very tough year, and I have been working Congress pretty hard, so I know there may not be an appetite immediately to dive into another controversial issue. There's still work that has to be done on energy. Midterms are coming up.
So, I don't want us to do something just for the sake of politics that doesn't solve the problem. I want us to get together, get the best ideas on both sides, work this through. And, when it's ready to go, let's move. But I think we need to start a process, at least, to open up a smarter, better discussion than the one that is raging right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And now here's the thing. We were all talking this morning about immigration being a no-win scenario for the Republicans up in Washington, and for the Democrats, and then, lo and behold, this -- this just before noon today. Have you heard?
Senate Democrats came out to the surprise of all of us and unveiled this immigration reform legislation. Now, this is really just a draft. It's not the actual legislation. Obviously, it's going to go through the entire process.
Jessica Yellin's joining us now. Credit and kudos to our Dana Bash. She broke the story. Good for her. Now, what do we have here? Is this thing -- is this the real deal? Is it viable? Is it doable? Or is this another knee-jerk reaction from politicians to the Arizona controversy?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: OK. Let's be honest up about what this is up front, Rick. This is a response to election-year politics.
Democrats, they vowed to take up this issue, and in light of Arizona, there's even more pressure on both parties to at least look like they're addressing it. But it's particularly important for one key Democrat, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who, as you know, is in a bitter reelection fight in his home state of Nevada, and about a quarter of his voters are Hispanic.
So this has been an issue he's championed, but he's also determined to keep a pledge he made to bring this up. And then, of course, Republicans, they are under pressure from their constituents to tighten immigration rules. But as President Obama alluded to, he was hinting at in that sound bite you played, the truth is this isn't an obvious winning issue for either party in an election year.
It threatens to harm Republicans among Hispanics and Democrats among law-and-order voters.
SANCHEZ: And...
YELLIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: We're seeing some of that. You have got Jeb Bush, who, by the way, is not doing this for political reasons. I have known this man for many, many years, worked with him, know his family, have a pretty good sense of what he's all about.
He's not out there worried, perhaps like many others may be, maybe Karl Rove, I don't know, that this will hurt Republicans at the polling stations and at the ballot box. He -- I believe Jeb Bush truly believes that this is the wrong thing for Republicans to do. And he's out there trying to make some of the other Republicans more malleable on this...
YELLIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... maybe malleable enough to work something out with the Democrats.
What are the chances that something like this could happen?
YELLIN: Well, first, to your point, Hispanics went 3-1 for Obama over McCain in the last election, so there's already a huge divide there. And there's a huge divide in the Republican Party between those who support the Arizona model, as you know, focused more on strengthening immigration rules and enforcing the law, and then the Bush model, pairing that with guest-worker programs and the more what they called compassionate approach. But keep in mind, Rick, back in 2007, when President Bush made this issue one of his top domestic priorities, and they had spent months consensus-building, it failed.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
YELLIN: So, in that context, it failed. You think it's going to happen effectively this year in this tough political environment during a recession? Political chances are slim.
SANCHEZ: And yet it's so incredibly important that at some point, somebody in our government, just like they need to have the guts, Republicans need to have the guts to say to their own people, maybe we need to raise taxes, Democrats need at some point to have the guts to say, let's stop cutting -- let's start cutting some of these entitlement programs.
I mean, we hear these arguments all the time. Somebody in Washington has to stand up and have the guts to do the unpopular things.
Well, this is probably the foremost most unpopular thing that seems to need to be done, and both sides are saying, please do it, and they won't do it. And it seems, as you have described, because of political expediency.
YELLIN: It may be more likely next year, in an off political year, when there's no election coming up immediately, it could happen.
SANCHEZ: I hear many of our viewers saying, how sad. But it is what it is.
Jessica, good stuff. Enjoyed the conversation.
Take a look at this, millions and millions of dollars and years and years of man-hours gone. Oops.
And then look who's tweeting. You are not going to believe it. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has suddenly found the Twitter board. What is he saying? And wait until you hear the responses he's getting. That's next. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLLY ROBINSON PEETE, ACTRESS: Hi. I'm Holly Robinson Peete.
And we can make an impact on families affected by autism. About 10 years ago, our son R.J. was diagnosed with autism. As soon as you're told your child has autism, you're also told you need to immerse them immediately in intervention to help them sort of cope. The scary thing is, a lot of families just cannot afford to do that.
With the HollyRod Foundation, we try to alleviate some of the financial strain on families affected by autism. Join the movement. Impact your world at CNN.com/impact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Good for her. And, by the way, you should know something. Holly Robinson Peete'S family was affected by autism. That is why her organization, HollyRod, is on the LIST today. And this is what they're tweeting on this day. We checked.
They say, "Every 20 minutes a child is diagnosed with autism and autism doesn't discriminate, affects boys and girls. It reaches across cultural and socioeconomic groups."
OK. We will stay on top of that and help in any way that we can.
Also, just for you naysayers out there, proof that Twitter does bring the global community together -- well, sort of. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has joined Twitter, and in less than 48 hours, he has almost 100,000 followers.
Now, here's what he's been tweeting. You ready? I will do the translation. I will say it in English. "(SPEAKING SPANISH)," which means, "Hey, how you doing?" I appeared, just as I said I would." (SPEAKING SPANISH) means "at midnight. I appeared at midnight."
"To Brazil, I go. And I'm very happy to be working for Venezuela, (SPEAKING SPANISH)" kind of a revolutionary toss there, which means, "We will be victorious. We will win."
All right, there's Chavez. So, he's getting people everybody all excited on the left because he tweets. He's also getting people some excited on the right because he tweets.
Cuban-American Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen from my hometown of Miami wasted no time in sharing her thoughts on Chavez via Twitter.
"Oh, no. Chavez joins Twitter. Will he chronicle the number of people he imprisons, private property he confiscates, media he shuts down?"
There you go. It's the yin and the yang. Boy, she must be really steamed about it, and she probably is. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen never tweets anything other than her events or appearances, but this time she's tweeting directly about this.
Now, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMERON: The Liberal Democrats would make it much, much worse.
CLEGG: No. No. David Cameron, what would the cap be?
CAMERON: Well, you would set the cap.
CLEGG: No, what is the number? (CROSSTALK)
CLEGG: Is it 10? Is it 10,000? Is it 10 million?
(CROSSTALK)
CAMERON: You're reminding me of Gordon last week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. What a real debate should look like. This isn't about talking points, but a real argument, how refreshing.
I'm going to take you -- and I think you're going to dig this -- I'm going to take you across the pond, live, for what is really good television. Grab a Coke. Sit back. And they would say, take notes, America, even if this is their very first series of debates.
Also, this. Supporters of the Arizona law say crime is a big reason for the law. So, we wanted to know, what are the actual Arizona crime statistics? What do they say? And what is Jeb Bush saying to his fellow Republicans about this Arizona law and the controversy on immigration? We have got all of this put together for you. RICK'S LIST scrolls on in just two minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Let me take you to Birmingham, England, where they are about to start this essential debate. It is the third debate that they will have in this series of the very first debates that they have had in this country.
And this is different. It's fresh. It's not just talking points being read out. It is a lively debate that is, in fact, very argumentative.
There is the host. They're just kind of getting everything ready. That's David Zimbleby, by the way. I misspoke. That's David Dimbleby. And, oh, look, he laughed. We're going to bring this debate as it happens in just a couple of minutes. So, stand by. We want you to see what is going on in England.
By the way, what they're talking about today, during this debate, is what affects us, the world's financial system, including what happened in Wall Street. Hang tight. I will take you to it.
Now, topping our immigration list, back to the news that we just broke on CNN, Democrats are teeing up a very new immigration reform plan. Did you hear? Now, I have got a draft of this proposal that they're talking about right here. It's being trotted out less than a week after Arizona forced the issue with its new law letting police question and detain anyone that they suspect here is illegally.
The Dems are obviously -- and you just heard this conversation a little while ago. Look, no one's able to do this yet, so there's no reason to believe that they will be able to do it this time. That's just the conventional wisdom. It could be wrong. It is an election year. And not one Republican is on board.
But some Republicans are working behind the scenes to get Congress to do something on immigration this year, among those, I mentioned this moments ago, Jeb Bush.
Alfonso Aguilar is one of them as well. He's a former chief of the Office of Citizenship under the Bush administration.
How are you, Mr. Aguilar? Good to see you, sir.
ALFONSO AGUILAR, FORMER CHIEF OF U.S. OFFICE OF CITIZENSHIP: Hey, Rick. How are you? How it's going?
SANCHEZ: It's going fantastic.
And, look, I think this is a very important issue. Let me ask you something, because I was having this conversation a little while ago and I want to know what you think. Why do you believe that Jeb Bush is putting his neck on the line here and doing this? I have got my theory. What's yours?
AGUILAR: Well, look, I think, as conservatives, we are the party of immigration. We have always been the party of immigration.
And, sadly, since '06, as you know well, a few members of Congress, supported by some very powerful anti-immigration groups, have been saying terrible things about Latinos and Hispanics, but also opposing any effort to reform our immigration laws.
But the truth is that, if -- if -- if we are free market conservatives, if we believe in what Ronald Reagan believed in, we should be for immigration. And that's why Jeb Bush is coming out and saying, look, you know, we need to reform our immigration laws.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: How much do you worry -- and by the way, I don't think this is the reason you're doing it. I certainly don't think this is the reason Jeb Bush is doing it, because I think this is something that's truly in his heart, as it was in the heart of his brother, George W. Bush.
AGUILAR: Right.
SANCHEZ: And to a large extent his father as well, the former president. But how much do you worry -- how much do you think Republicans should be worried that they might be perceived as anti- immigrant, even if this is not about an immigrant thing?
AGUILAR: Right.
SANCHEZ: I know it's an illegal immigrant thing, but, still, the perception is there and that it could cost them votes for many, many, many years, like you're handing the Democrats an ace.
AGUILAR: Well, that's something that we definitely have to think about. I mean, if you look at the election in '04, President Bush got 44 percent of the Latino vote. In '08, McCain just got 30 percent, 31 percent of the Latino vote.
So, obviously we're concerned that those voices, even though they're just a few members of Congress, are making a lot of noise, and the perception is that, yes, a lot of Republicans are anti-Latino. But the fact of the matter is that's not true. The majority are for immigration.
SANCHEZ: I agree with you. I agree with you. But when you have ads like this fellow in Alabama --
AGUILAR: Yes.
SANCHEZ: -- who's not only saying he's illegal immigration. He doesn't even want anybody coming to the country speaking anything other than English, which is like saying your parents or my parents or those 40,000 Vietnamese immigrants that we brought to our country after they fought by our troops, they can't come here and drive because they speak Vietnamese and when you're 50 years old, it's hard to learn a new language.
That's not the kind of rhetoric that makes people think, I believe that you're just trying to figure this problem out. That sounds blatantly racist.
AGUILAR: You're absolutely right. But that's why the majority of Republicans and conservatives cannot remain silent. We need to stand up and say, hey, wait a second, we are not a restrictionist party. We're not a nationalist party. We are the party of free market and opportunity.
And that's why Jeb Bush is standing up and saying, look, you know, this -- this cannot continue. That's why Marco Rubio came out and criticized the law in Arizona.
SANCHEZ: Takes a lot of guts. Take a lot of guts. You guys are bucking the trend. Go to the tea party and say these things.
AGUILAR: Well, but, look, you'll find in the tea party a lot of people that support free market and immigration. The tea party group is a very diverse community of people.
But let me tell but let me tell you something.
SANCHEZ: OK. Final word, by the way.
AGUILAR: If president Obama were to address serious immigration, not the political ploy in the Senate, but if he were actually willing to seriously talk about immigration, talk from the Oval Office to the nation about the importance of immigration reform and reach out to Republican leadership in House and Senate, I can guarantee you, Republicans would stand up and -- and meet him --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
AGUILAR: -- and work with him on an immigration plan. SANCHEZ: Until a talk show host out there with a radio show stands up and uses one word, one word, and the thing is dead, "Amnesty." That's all he's got to say, because that's what killed it last time.
AGUILAR: Well, but remember, last time we had in the Senate, in '07, we got very close. We had up to 25 Republican votes for immigration reform.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
AGUILAR: I think you're absolutely right. There are a group of people who are to the extreme right, they're restrictionist. What we have to say is enough is enough, we have to stand up and say we are the party of freedom and opportunity. We're the party of immigration. That's what Ronald Reagan stood for.
We need an immigration plan that is market base and that secures the border but allows a good guest-worker program that allows immigrants to come in and meet the demands of our labor market. That's what we need and Republicans have to play a major part in the debate.
SANCHEZ: I'm glad you had a chance to come on and share your perspective. It certainly is one that, as I said, is a courageous perspective. Alfonso Aguilar, former chief for the Office of Citizenship under the Bush administration.
AGUILAR: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: My thanks to you, sir. My thanks.
Take a look at this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For a long time we've heard you say you are Republican, you'll always be a Republican. Could that change tomorrow?
GOV. CHARLIE CRIST, FLORIDA: Yes. That could change tomorrow, but I haven't made up my mind yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Will Republican donors ask Charlie Crist, since he seems to be ready to announce he's going to change parties -- we could be covering this in an hour or so. He's going to make the announcement and come before cameras and obviously you'll see it live here.
But if he goes independent from the Republican Party, are his Republican campaign contributors going to say, hey, give me back my money? It's a real possibility. The official announcement is ahead.
Also this -- whoa! That's going to leave a mark. "Fotos" next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. You know, criminals frequently target older people, right? Henceforth, it's criminals beware. It's time for our list of the best videos. We call this "La Fotos del Dia."
Let's begin in Virginia. This crook messed with the wrong clerk. She fought. He gave up. He ran. That's not all. The 69-year-old chased him down, says she'd do it again if she had to. The suspect later turned himself in. Good for you, granny.
Also to Tulsa, typical downtown building, right? Wrong. Look closer. A window -- a window? -- a window in a Mercedes. The driver was backing into a space in a parking deck, but made some extra space through the side of the building seven stories up. You might say that he broke the bank along with the windshield of the car below.
And now to Australia, going down under a NASA balloon launch was over before it even started in Australia. This is a very expensive weather balloon, millions of dollars. The payload ripped loose of its moorings, lurched across the desert, slammed into cars, people running for their lives before coming to an unceremonious demise.
If you want to see it again, go to "Fotos del Dia" on my blog at CNN.com/RickSanchez.
OK. We've got some live pictures going on. This thing has just started. We are monitoring it because we understand at the very beginning they're going to be talking about things that involve the British economic system in particular, so we're not going to dip into that, because it may not be as watchable.
As soon as they begin to talk about Wall Street and the world economy, the situation in Greece, et cetera, et cetera, we will let you hear what the guy on the left, the guy in the middle, and the guy -- well, their versions of the guy on the left, the guy in the middle, and the guy on the right have to say.
And it's good television. There's nothing stuffy about these British debates. You'll see for yourself.
By the way, hey, you want to be on this show, call this number, 1-877-4CNN-tour, and you'll be right in the audience with me, you'll be right in the studio. And we'll chat it up during commercials.
We'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: Welcome back to your national conversation, your list, "RICK'S LIST."
"Time" has published their list of the most influential leaders in the world. They're one of our partners and we want to share it with you. Number one of the people most influential in the world this year, Mr. Lula da Silva from the nation of Brazil, Inacio Lula da Silva, who came on early on as a lefty, but now has come way, way more to the middle, and some are saying is doing some fabulous things with his country.
After that J.T. Wang, then Admiral Mike Mullen in front of Barack Obama. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is in front of the president of the United States. The list goes on with Ron Bloom, Dominique Strauss-Khan, Nancy Pelosi, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck! You go, Glenn Beck. He made the list as well. We'll keep watching it for you.
So, which is it? Look at this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why the change of heart from the staunch stance that you would never leave the party?
CRIST: I haven't made that decision yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are you considering it?
CRIST: Because I think it's good to keep an open mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Will he or won't he? That is Charlie Crist being pressed on the big announcement that he's scheduled to make today. Will he go independent or stay Republican? Well, the news has been that he's switching. But now he seems to be hedging. You're going to hear it live. Stay right there.
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SANCHEZ: All right, this is starting to get good. I want to take you to Birmingham, England. Let me just set the scene here, OK? This is the third in a series of debates, the first time they ever debated. But they're in a free for all.
This is good. They're starting to argue. You're seeing the Prime Minister Gordon Brown, the conservative is David Cameron, and the Liberal Democrat is Nick Clegg who has become sort of a superstar of late in these debates.
We'll identify them in a minute. They're talking taxes and financial reform. Go for it, Roger.
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE PARTY LEADER: -- all around us and the government has done so little about it. Obviously with the terrible situation we have in our public finances with the mess left by Gordon and Labour, where out of every four pounds the government spends, one is borrowed, it's not possible to make great big tax giveaway policies. Even if they're a lovely thing to do, you can't do it. But what we've said let's try to stop the one tax that will hit the lowest-paid people, and that's the national insurance tax I was referring to earlier. We can't stop all of the other taxes, the top rate of tax, the extra tax on the pensions. I mean, Labour have put up tax something like 178 times, but we are going to stop that one tax that will hit the lowest-paid the hardest.
And let me just say this about tax credits. They will stay under a conservative government and Gordon Brown has to stop misleading families in this country like he's been misleading all the people and cancer patients as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have a chance to answer that in a moment. Nick Clegg?
NICK CLEGG, U.K. CANDIDATE FOR PRIME MINISTER: Was that a Dean in this Echoey Hall, I couldn't hear it? Your absolutely right. Our tax system is grotesquely unfair. After 13 years of Labour who would have believed that a multimillionaire from the city of London pays a lower rate of tax on their capital gains, that's income to you and me, than their cleaner with his wages.
After 13 years of Labour we've got the bottom 20 percent of people in this country who pay more in taxes as a proportion of their income than the top 20 percent. So I think we need to change it.
David Cameron said you can't afford tax giveaways. No, you can't. What you can do is switch the tax system. Make it fair. Make sure the huge loopholes that only the people right at the top, the very wealthy people that can afford a football team and lawyers and accountants who get them out of paying taxes, close the loopholes and give it back to the people so they pay no income tax on the first 10,000 pounds you earn, t 700 pounds back in the pocket of the vast majority of you in this country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just before we go on, let me just repeat the question. Over the past few years the taxman's taken more and more from the average worker's pay slip. If you were elected, what would you do about taxes? And, Gordon Brown, what would you say in response to David Cameron's attack on you?
GORDON BROWN, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Nobody earning less than 20,000 pounds will pay the national insurance rise. The reason for which is to ensure our health services, our police and our education, and David cannot guarantee funding for police and education that will match what we're doing.
But that's the reasonable for the national insurance rise. Nobody below 20,000 will pay it. And 6 million people in this country receive tax credits. And the conservatives and the liberals have a plan to reduce tax credits for middle-class families.
And I come back to this central question about fairness in the tax system. If David wants fairness in the tax system, why does he support this inheritance tax cut for only 3,000 families worth 200,000 pounds each. The biggest beneficiary of the conservative manifesto is, as always, the richest estates in the country and not the ordinary hard- working people of this country.
And if the liberals want to cut child tax credits with the conservatives, than I will say one thing -- I will never form an alliance with a conservative government that cuts child tax credits.
SANCHEZ: There you go. Does it sound a little familiar? Almost like some of the arguments we hear there.
By the way, let me set the scene for you a little better, because we're going to be dipping into this from time to time over the next couple of hours.
Put up the graphic that we created to show who's who here. There you see Clegg. Nobody had heard of this guy until suddenly these debates have made him a bit of a populist, a bit of a rock star. Gordon Brown, of course, we know the prime minister. He's a moderate. So we've got the liberal on the right, the moderate in the middle.
The liberals, we should say, they were against the Iraq war, green growth jobs -- they are for green growth jobs -- closing the tax loopholes that benefit the wealthy. Sounds like some of the Democrats here.
The conservative party is led by David Cameron. They supported the Iraq war, they want to cut corporate tax rates, and they want to get people off welfare. And then there's Gordon Brown, supported the Iraq war, he also wants to raise the national minimum wage. So there's their version of what we talk about.
We put liberal, moderate and conservative underneath. It's kind of their version of moderate, liberal and conservative for the record. And we'll keep looking for spots where we can cut in, because I think there's a lot to learn from what is being said in that debate.
Now, take a look at this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In New Jersey, hospitals spike their prices higher than any other state in the country, 326 percent.
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SANCHEZ: Yes, many hospitals are marking up prices as much as 180 percent, but not in Maryland. Now why? What are they doing different in Maryland and what can we learn?
Also, who's on the list of the most intriguing people in the news today? Hint, hours stuck on a plane, on a tarmac? That's next.
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SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Time to check the list now of the most intriguing people in the news today.
This lady doesn't just get mad, she takes action. And if you're getting on a plane from, well, today forward, this lady is your friend. Background, four years ago she and her family were stuck on a tarmac on an airline -- nine hours, no food, no water, no information, nine hours.
After that ordeal, she formed a group Flyers Rights, and went on a warpath against the airlines. Today, her work has paid off. Show her, Roger. This is Kate Hanni. She fought for the three-hour rule that goes in effect today. If you sit on a plane for three hours or more going nowhere, the airline gets hammered with a big fat fine. It's the deal that she struck with the U.S. Transportation Department.
So for reclaiming passengers humanity, Kate Hanni is our most intriguing person in the news today.
So if you haven't heard, financial reform has indeed crossed a big hurdle. So what's the market doing today? Poppy Harlow is joining me right here, and she'll be here with us after the break. Follow the numbers, Poppy.
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: I am.
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