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Rick's List

Should U.S. Naturalization Process Be Changed?; Authorities Attempt to Cap Gulf Oil Leak

Aired May 05, 2010 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: What is at the top of the crime list today during this newscast? Well, movement today on that horrible, violent death of a college student at the University of Virginia.

Roger, show pictures of this victim and the guy who's accused of killing her now. I mean, there's the victim, Yeardley Love, 22 years old, found dead in her apartment Monday morning. Police say this guy, George Huguely, was her current or ex-boyfriend. He's only 22 years old. Both students, both elite athletes, both in the school's lacrosse programs, both seem to come from money.

And here's what we have learned in the past couple of hours. There's now been a sworn statement from investigators who have interviewed Huguely, who says the two of them had a -- quote -- "altercation." He says he shook her. He says her head hit the wall -- repeatedly, though. He says he took the woman's computer and tried to get rid of it.

Huguely's formally charged with first-degree murder today. Listen to his lawyer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCIS LAWRENCE, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE HUGUELY: We are confident that Ms. Love's death was not intended, but an accident with a tragic outcome.

TIM LONGO, CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA, POLICE CHIEF: You look at a scene like that, and you see a young person who's -- who's been the victim of -- of something like this, it's -- it's certainly -- it sent shockwaves through the community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right. We need to tell you that he does -- Huguely, George Huguely, does remain in jail at this point.

He did not request bond. That is the crime list.

Let me start this new hour by telling you that, as we speak, we're going to be following these live pictures of this barge that's carrying this containment dome that could be, could possibly be that which stops this ecological catastrophe from occurring in the Gulf of Mexico.

We will follow it throughout the next hour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making the LIST on this day.

Greeks riot. Will their flatlining economy affect our economy?

Faisal Shahzad became an American while hating America. How did that happen?

(on camera): Is our process for screening people who become naturalized in this country outdated?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not only is it outdated. It's ridiculous.

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Is it time to update the naturalization process? Maybe fewer questions about Nazis and communism and more questions about terrorism. I'm asking ICE live.

Why is this man running from police? I will tell you.

The Phoenix Suns today will be Los Suns in protest, but many Americans are OK with Arizona's new immigration law. Where is the middle ground? I will talk live with the mayor of Los Angeles.

The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's landed on the list you don't want to be on? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting- edge news right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

It is hour two. Time to pick up the pace of today's LIST for those of you that are just now checking in.

And I want to start with this. There was a seemingly reasonable question raised on this show yesterday about how it is that Faisal Shahzad was able to become an American citizen, even though he seemed to hate America.

So, when I looked at the naturalization forms that he filled out -- in fact, I have been spending a good while looking at them throughout the course of the day -- we asked for these -- I noticed, while there are a bevy of questions in here about -- about communism and about totalitarianism and about Nazism, so detailed, in fact, that it even asks -- What did I do with my reading glasses? -- it even asks on some points about paramilitary units, asks about jobs in labor camps, asks about governments that may have been established outside of Germany, but still within the prism of Germany itself, some transit camps and war camps and prisoner of wars and concentration camps and extermination camps.

I mean, it goes on and on in detail about these things. Yet, there's only one question in here about terrorism. There it is. You got it? There it is, one question about terrorism: "Have you ever been a member or associated with a terrorist organization?" One.

Now, shouldn't the form reflect more of what's happening in the world today, rather than what was happening 60 years ago? I mean, this isn't about blaming anybody for what happened or what could have happened. It's not about blame. It's just a question.

It's a question that I wanted to ask the folks responsible for allowing people to become citizens in the United States of America.

So, we called ICE. They said, that's not our doing. They told us to call the Office of Citizenship and Immigration Services. So, we did. but they said they didn't want to talk about it. "That's not a discussion that we want to be a part of at this time," they told us.

Well, guess what?

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: We do want to be a part of that discussion. I want to be a part of this discussion. And we're going to continue asking the questions, because that's what we do.

More on Shahzad and what he's telling police in just a couple of minutes.

Let me flip over to another story that we have been following for you. Take a look at this picture. This is that dome that we have been following. You see it there right behind me. We at CNN are providing the only live pictures, I understand, of this dome as it heads out to sea. It will go right to the Gulf of Mexico, where it will be used, hopefully, as kind of containment for the oil that is leaking as we speak.

Let me take you now to the Port of Fourchon, as you look at the pictures, and let me also take you to part of Mississippi, where I understand Brooke Baldwin is following the story as we speak.

This thing is hours and hours away from getting there, right, Brooke?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's hours and hours from getting there, and then days and days before it's hopefully fully hooked up and can suck that oil from the biggest leak out from this well, from this rupture, and up into this drill vessel.

Let me show you another picture. You see this cup of water? It looks pretty good, right? This is some water I just got off the shores here in Mississippi. It's a little bit murky, simply because of the storms in the recent days.

This water will start turning colors and will start getting oily in at least 72 hours. That's what we're hearing from the Coast Guard, right, when this oil might be hitting shore. But it could turn perhaps even quicker if this dome, this containment dome that you have been watching, these live pictures, the big white thing, four stories high, 70 tons, is making its way to that big leak. And so, like you said, it left Port -- Port Fourchon right around noon local. It's going to take another 12 hours just to get to that location. And then it has to go 5,000 feet under the surface of the water, which is the deepest BP has ever tried doing anything like this before. So, it's a first for this oil company.

Then, hopefully, they will be able to suck that oil up under that vessel, and then they will have one final leak that they will to be able to use the same sort of idea, that same containment dome, and, hopefully, perhaps week, we will finally have some definitive good news.

SANCHEZ: OK.

BALDWIN: Rick.

SANCHEZ: I was just told by your producer that you were tossing to a sound bite, but I guess you're not tossing to a sound bite.

Brook, my thanks to you.

BALDWIN: Well, no, we can -- let's toss to the sound bite.

SANCHEZ: OK, let's toss to a sound bite then. What do you with say?

BALDWIN: Well, let me -- let me set it up first.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Obviously, beyond this containment dome, the issue, this -- this has environmental, it has economic ramifications, and we have talked about the shrimping -- the shrimping industry, fishermen, tourism here, right, how it would potentially be decimated. That's what they're telling us.

But we met a guy this morning. He is a captain of this big, huge ship, sport fishing, huge industry here. He has already been out of work for a week. He's losing a chunk of change. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE PELAEZ, CHARTER BOAT CAPTAIN: Right now, three trips so far is probably in the neighborhood of about $21,000.

BALDWIN: How do you get that money back?

PELAEZ: You don't, unless -- I mean, that's going to be going to be -- it's going to be a long-resolved issue, with me and thousands of other people coming up with the same -- with the same question, how you get your money back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Obviously, Rick, you know BP is supposed to be paying, but a lot of people out here still sort of scratching their heads over that. Another issue, quickly, the ecological ramifications -- what I didn't realize -- I was fortunate enough to hop up in a helicopter yesterday afternoon, and I went along with this group that's looking specifically for dolphins.

Did you know this whole area along the coast just south of Louisiana and Mississippi is the most populous area of dolphins in all of the country? So, it was essentially this recon mission just to see how many were out there, how many were swimming, because that's one huge concern -- dolphins very intelligent, very inquisitive, so, once the sheen and the oil starts to come ashore, major concern is, these dolphins are going to go check it out.

SANCHEZ: Fantastic.

Thanks so much, Brooke, for bringing us up to date on that story. Let us know how this thing travels through the Gulf. And, you know, like I have been saying, we're all hoping upon hope that this thing actually is able to get the job done.

All right. Take a look at this -- take a look at this piece of sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY SCHWEIGER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL WILDLIFE FEDERATION: The turtles coming up for air. And, when it does, it's gulping the surface and it's picking up that oil that's floating on the surface.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, it's taking it into its body?

SCHWEIGER: So, it's taking it into its body.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: We're starting to finally see what could happen if this device doesn't stop the oil leak. That's important. And the early evidence is, it's pretty frightening. That's ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNFIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Yes, that's gunfire. It's an economic collapse. A government is in tatters. Rioters are taking to the street. And now the question is, what effect is Greece going to have on our economy? It's what a lot of folks are wondering about. And there is an effect. It's just trying to figure out if it's positive or negative at this point. That's next.

Stay right there. You're watching the LIST, and this is what we're getting from National Wildlife.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: Let me bring something to your attention. At the beginning of this newscast, you heard that I had intended to bring you an interview with folks with the Office of Citizenship and Immigration. And I questioned why it is that this suspected terrorist in Times Square was able to do what he did, while becoming a naturalized citizen of the United States, while we seem to know that he wasn't crazy about the United States?

In fact, it almost sounded like he hated the United States. So, I wondered if the -- if the actual process for becoming a citizen should be considered, maybe, possibly, updated, because, when I read it, I was looking at the fact that there are a lot of questions about totalitarianism and communism and Nazism, but there was only one question about terrorism.

And I was wondering if, given what's going on in the world today, the form itself should not be updated, maybe possibly made more relevant. It was a question, not an accusation.

This is not about blame. Well, that office, perhaps in part as a response to what I just said on the air, has sent this. This is from the press secretary.

His name is Christopher Bentley. He's put out a statement. It says -- I will read you the first part of it: "The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services is committed to protecting national security, while, at the same time, providing immigration services in a fair and timely manner."

And then it goes on to say that they are "confident in their ability to provide citizenship through the naturalization process, established by law." Now, this is interesting, that they're using the fact that it's established by law. In other words, hey, this is what Congress is telling us to do.

We're wondering if they're questioning if that's maybe where the questions should be asked. However, then they go on to say: "Make no mistake. Our officers judge each application for citizenship on its own merit to ensure not only fair immigration decisions, but also the integrity of the American immigration system."

Good for them. We thank them for putting this note and letting us know exactly what's going on. We will continue to follow up. And, hopefully, all we asked is that they come on the air and join us and take us through the process. Maybe they will be good enough. Maybe Mr. Bentley will be good enough to join us here on the air tomorrow to take us through the process and some of the questions that we have asked.

Now to this.

On the roundup, the list of big stories, both domestic and international, number one: Take a look at the pandemonium on the streets of Athens, Greece, tear gas, flying bricks and bottles, cars on fire, riot police, protesters, all butting heads on the steps of the Greek parliament and throughout the city. Here is what it actually sounds like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(ALARM BLARING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: What's behind this anger? The Greek government's plan to rescue the economy with tax hikes and wage freezes. It's not just a loud and ugly scene. It's deadly as well. Three people reportedly died in a bank set on fire. It's an ongoing story. We're going to continue to follow this for you.

And, obviously, we will follow what effect it has on our economy.

Number two, a couple of things we have learned today about Faisal Shahzad, the man who now admits he drove a car bomb in the heart of Manhattan Saturday. If there is a VIP treatment for terror suspects, he is getting it. Why? The National Security Council's high-value interrogation group is one of the entities questioning him. That's according to the White House official today.

We have also learned today that one of Shahzad's relatives, his father-in-law, was rounded up and questioned in Pakistan. That's where Faisal Shahzad was originally from and where he was returning Monday when he was arrested at JFK Airport in New York.

We're told several people have been detained and questioned in Pakistan about the weekend's thwarted bombings in Times Square. As we get more details on him, we will share.

Number three: Get a good look at this. You won't see this man in the House chamber anymore after this congressional term ends. Wisconsin Democrat David Obey says he will not run for reelection. He's been in Congress more than 40 years, 21 terms in all, and the fourth longest- serving member of the United States House of Representatives. Obey's most powerful job in Congress is as chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.

What's the reason? The 71-year-old Obey says there's a time to stay and a time to go, and his quote: "I am bone-tired."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had some that even got ugly with us and said that they would sleep on their roof or whatever if they had to, that they wasn't going to leave, they was going to ride it out. We picked them up the following day off their roof, so they got their wish.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: You really can't get a sense of just how tragic the flooding in Nashville is unless you get right into the zone, floating house to house. Our Martin Savidge, he did just that. And what he discovered is fascinating. Talk about experiential. Talk about telling a story from the place of origin. That's what he does. You are going to enjoy this piece by Marty.

Also, what is the last place you would expect to find an anti-gay activist? Remember, he's an anti- -- anti-gay activist. Would you expect to find him on vacation with a male prostitute? Surprise. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Time to call somebody out.

When somebody calls himself an expert on homosexuality, so much against it, in fact, that he goes on national television as an anti- gay activist, then it would be safe to say, right, that he has called attention to himself on this issue, that he has, as the Supreme Court likes to say, thrust himself into the vortex of a controversial situation, which gives me, as a journalist, the right to talk about him.

Well, this person has certainly gotten my attention. Here now, the person on the list that you don't want to be on.

His name is George Rekers. He is a faculty member at the University of South Carolina. His resume reflects a distinguished career in psychology and studies of all things sexual. He's written books on how to "fix" gay people -- "fix" in quotations, of course.

He has testified in court that same-sex couples should not be able to adopt. He co-founded the Family Research Council with James Dobson. Safe to say, he is anti-gay, right? Well, turns out this guy Rekers has been reportedly spotted with an alleged male prostitute that he hired from Rentboy.com -- Rentboy.com.

Take a look. Here it is for yourself. According to "The Miami New Times," who took this photo, they went to Europe together for 10 days. Gay Web sites and blogs are raving mad about this story. They are calling Rekers many things, not to mention a hypocrite.

I wanted to hear from George Rekers himself, obviously. Here is what he has responded to us. He requires an assistant, he says, to lift his luggage during travels because of a medical condition after surgery, even though that's not what the assistant is doing in this photo.

Rekers goes on to tell us, he's received offers from friends and colleagues to travel with him, but he found this recent travel assistant by interviewing acquaintances.

And now here's what he told a gay blogger on Facebook -- quote -- "Like Jesus Christ, I deliberately spend time with sinners, with the loving goal of trying to help them."

So, he ministered to the alleged male prostitute from Rentboy.com in Europe.

George Rekers, number one today on the list that you don't want to be on. What's it actually like...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There it is. That's what is in the water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: ... to get pictures of this oil slick, I mean, right down there among them, as they say, right there at the surface, feel, touch, see that oil slick, not these aerials that everybody has been showing you.

Well, we went out on a boat to actually see what it looks like right there, mano a mano. And we're going to take you there next.

Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is your LIST. This is your national conversation. This is RICK'S LIST.

Boy, tough times right now for the oil companies and the oil industry in general, isn't it? Take a look at this, totally unrelated to what's going on in the Gulf of Mexico, but, in San Antonio, there's been a huge explosion at an oil refinery. We understand that there are about 100 workers there. In fact, there were about 100 workers at the time of the accident.

One person has been critically injured. There's at least one person who's also unaccounted for. And that's not usually good news. Apparently, it was an 18-wheeler that was being loaded with fuel when it suddenly exploded.

It caused a chain reaction, and there have been many blasts that have since followed. We're going to keep an eye on that for you.

Also on our watch list, the big oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico -- this giant concrete and steel dome is now being moved into that leaking well. We have been showing you these live pictures all day long. There it is taking off. It's that white apparatus you see in the background there.

But this story has been told now for going on a week-and-a-half or so with aerials from afar. And I don't know about you, but I have almost been so hungry for someone who would take me into this malaise and actually show me what's going on at the surface. What -- what does this oil look like? I mean, make this story a hands-on story, make it experiential, so we can really get it.

That's what David Mattingly does. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Boat captains in port told us where to find it, an ugly reddish-brown wave of oil. A bumpy two-hour ride later, it was impossible to miss.

(on camera): Finally, here we are, 15 miles out. We've slowed down. The seas are still pretty rough, as you can see, but I don't know if you can see it or not, but just right here in front of us, it looks almost like a red, muddy line through the water. That is the oil.

(voice-over): National Wildlife Federation president Larry Schweiger believes the impact on wildlife is inevitable.

LARRY SCHWEIGER, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL WILDLIFE FEDERATION: You can see it's been treated, so it's breaking up and it's dispersing into the water column.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): It looks like tea-sized blobs in the water, millions of them, all the way down.

(on camera): OK. I'm going to grab a towel here. This stuff is rubbing up against the side of the boat. There it is. That's what's in the water. That's sticking to the side of the boat right there.

If this is doing this to the boat, what is it going to do to anything that lives in this water?

SCHWEIGER: It's going to be very, very hard on the fish and shellfish.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): And the oil seems to go on forever.

(on camera): Over here, as far as the eye can see, there is like a red line of that oil going right across the Gulf of Mexico. It is endless.

(voice-over): And, as bad as it looked, it was about to get worse.

(on camera): This is something we didn't expect to see. This is a sea turtle. It's right here in the water. It's right near the top. It's swimming right in the middle of all that oily mess out there.

We're going to try and get as close as we can to...

(CROSSTALK)

SCHWEIGER: And he's -- he's having trouble. That's why he's doing that.

MATTINGLY: He's...

SCHWEIGER: He should not be doing that.

MATTINGLY: He's clearly in distress.

The turtle has to come up for air?

SCHWEIGER: The turtle's coming up for air, and, when it does, it's gulping the surface, and it's picking up that oil that's floating on the surface. MATTINGLY: So, it's taking it into its body?

SCHWEIGER: So, it's taking it into its body. And, of course, if you're -- if you're drinking oil, it's not -- not good for the digestive system. So he's -- he's in distress.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): It seemed to be having breathing problems. After a few moments, it disappeared into the reddish, oily muck.

(on camera): OK, we're about to take off. Didn't want to leave without getting a souvenir. There it is, the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.

That's just one leading band of it, and you see how it's floating to the top and how nasty it is. All of this is going that way, back towards shore.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: What a wonderful report.

By the way, we've just gotten some brand-new information. We've gotten some of the details on exactly what Faisal Shahzad did when he was in Pakistan. This is significant because, really, there are still questions about whether him going to Waziristan, parts of Pakistan, tying up with either al Qaeda or the Taliban -- and if it was the Taliban, which part of the Taliban? Because there's more than one.

All right. We're breaking this down for you. Stay right there.

We're coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We've got some breaking news coming into us, and I want to share it with you. I am looking at it myself for the very first time, so we'll go through this together. Here is what CNN has now cleared for us to report.

This is significant because this sets up why it is that, in fact, this suspected terrorist, Faisal Shahzad, had gone to Pakistan. A senior Pakistani official is now telling CNN that on July 7th, 2009, Muhammad Rehan (ph), who was, by the way, detained on Tuesday in Karachi, one of the people that we've told you that have been going on with these roundups, he drove Faisal Shahzad to Peshawar in a pickup truck.

At some point -- here's the news -- they headed to the Waziristan region. Right? That's that mountainous region I've been telling you about where many suspect that Osama bin Laden is, where they met with one or more senior Taliban leaders. Taliban leaders.

It's believed that Shahzad spent a period of time there. The source said that Shahzad would not have been able to do this without Rehan (ph), Muhammad Rehan (ph). This is important, because what it's basically doing is it's collaborating his story. Remember yesterday we reported that he had told some of the officials who were interrogating him, "I went for five months to Pakistan and I was in the Waziristan region"? Well, now here's somebody else who is coming forward saying, yes, he was there, I know he was there because I drove him there in a truck, I took him to Waziristan.

Rehan (ph) is believed to have strong links to the militant outfit Jaish-e-Mohammed, which is also close to al Qaeda and the Pakistani Taliban. Notice it says "Pakistani Taliban," which is differentiated from the Afghani Taliban. But this seems to indicate -- and again, this is cleared by our CNN managers who have been looking at what has been released out of Pakistan today, and this comes from a senior Pakistani official, saying now that there appears to be someone else who is confirming that he met with the Pakistani Taliban, which has strong ties to al Qaeda.

How important is that? Very significant, at this point, as we continue to drill down on this story.

Meanwhile, take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Some houses don't look so bad until you realize you're looking at the third floor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: I told you a little while ago about what it feels like and how important it is to be experiential, to actually get a hands-on feel for a story. Well, wait until you see this report, this repot by Marty Savidge.

It's a 500-year, maybe a 1,000-year disaster that's taking place in Tennessee. What's it like to be there on the ground or on a boat? Well, the misery facing Nashville, as told by Marty, one of our best.

Also, what's up with the Phoenix Suns' jerseys? It turns out it's a protest on Cinco de Mayo, and the NBA is saying go ahead, get involved in this political controversy. That's different. We've got tweets, we've got info, we've got pics.

This is RICK'S LIST. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Well, the big story out of San Antonio and Phoenix -- because you know they're playing basketball tonight, and they're two cities with huge Hispanic populations. Obviously, San Antonio, and Phoenix not only a huge Hispanic population, but a major controversy that's going on there as well.

And now -- and this is rare -- a sports team that usually doesn't involve itself in political controversies is right smack dab in the middle of this one. Tonight, the basketball team the Phoenix Suns are going to be -- on their jerseys, it's going to say "Los Suns" instead of "Phoenix Suns."

I mean, you can see the jerseys. And interestingly enough, we got a tweet, too, I want to share with you. Here's a tweet that came over from the team just a little while ago, Alvin Gentry on how he'll celebrate Cinco de Mayo. "The fact that we're still playing and we're involved in the playoffs is a good celebration."

I'm not sure what that means.

Can we go to the one before that which actually is a lot more relevant to what the controversy is about?

Obviously, they're playing on Cinco de Mayo, because they're in the playoffs. Big deal.

See if you can pull that one up. I'd love to see it. I'd love for our audience to see it.

The Suns are -- all right. Yea, nay?

Watch this, folks. This is live television, and we are checking our relevant tweets to see if, in fact, we can tell you what's going on with this controversy, because we understand -- there it is. All right.

He's going to be talking. This is the big guy, the CEO. The Suns president is going to be discussing "Los Suns" jerseys tonight. That's game two.

This is something they want to get themselves embroiled in, and they're doing it consciously, not by accident.

We're going to talk immigration and more with Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa. That's coming up in just -- there he is, as a matter of fact.

Mr. Mayor has a lot to say about this. And what he and I are going to be talking about is somehow finding the middle in what is one of the most polarizing debates that's taken place in this country in decades.

Stay right there. We're going to be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. This is something I've been wanting to do for some time.

Folks, turn up a the volume on your TVs right now, because this is an important conversation that all of us in this country need to have.

Topping our immigration list, some of the blowback from Arizona's tough new immigration law, letting police ask people they suspect that are here illegally to prove otherwise. And let's look at both sides, because it's coming from both sides.

First, a group that some people consider to be neo-Nazi, a hate group, proclaiming today, "Report an Illegal Day." That's not going very well in some areas. It's handing out flyers, telling people to turn in businesses suspected of hiring any illegal immigrants or anybody out there who might even look like being illegal.

Then there's the other side. Two Arizona cities, Flagstaff and Tucson, have voted to sue the state. They're worried about the cost of enforcing the law and the effect that it's going to have on tourism, which could hurt Arizona.

And then there's the Phoenix Suns, the story I just told you about. They're wearing "Los Suns" jerseys this evening in their game against San Antonio -- "Los Suns."

And then, of course, as you know, there are calls for boycott of Arizona, and those are growing.

And with that in the background, let me bring in the mayor of Los Angeles, Antonio Villaraigosa, who's good enough to be here with me to discuss this situation.

You and I spoke about this last week, and I asked you to come on and discuss this with our viewers. And I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

But it seems to me, Mr. Mayor, that there are many polar opposites who are maybe just small percentages in this country, and then there's the rest of us in the middle who generally agree with most of what people are saying on both sides. We need to control the borders. We need to have a process for immigration. The federal government needs to get involved. We need to decide who's allowed to stay and who's allowed to go.

Everybody agrees with most of that stuff. Why is it that there's this huge fight that goes on every time the subject comes up?

MAYOR ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA (D), LOS ANGELES: Politics, pure and simple. The fact of the matter is, the Pew study, which is a comprehensive study of people's attitudes around immigration, has some 70 percent of Americans and more believe that we should secure our borders in a post-9/11 world, that we have every right to enforce our immigration laws, that in a nation predicated on the rule of law, that we do have to enforce them.

But it's always been a federal responsibility. That's what's wrong here. The federal government has abdicated its responsibility, and so you have states like Arizona passing laws that are divisive, unconstitutional, that pit Arizonan against Arizonan.

It's just the wrong way to go.

SANCHEZ: Well, but let's talk truth here. OK? You're powerful, and my job's to talk truth, so let me talk truth to power.

The Democrats are very interested in keeping Hispanics as a voting bloc. And given what's going on in Arizona, the Republicans may very well be helping them do that. The Republicans, on the other hand, are very interested in keeping this going because it's cheep labor and it's good for business. There's something in it for both sides politically.

Do you believe that may be part of the reason this situation doesn't get fixed?

VILLARAIGOSA: I think it's a lack of courage. I think it is politics, and for various reasons. You mentioned a few.

I think that we've got to do something about the fact that we have 12 million people here who are in the shadows, who are working here, paying taxes, the vast majority of them deserving the law. By the same token, we have a right to say that we want to control the number of people that come into the United States.

So there's a balance here. And as you said, that balance is in the middle. Unfortunately, we don't have enough people today in the Congress who are willing to take this issue head-on, on a bipartisan way, to address --

SANCHEZ: How --

VILLARAIGOSA: -- to address the issue comprehensively.

SANCHEZ: How tough is it for you? I mean, you are the mayor of one of the biggest cities in the world, where, according to all statistics that I have seen, there are the largest numbers of illegal immigrants anywhere in the United States.

Why are we hearing about Arizona having a big issue and not about California?

VILLARAIGOSA: You're right, we have the largest number of undocumented in the city of Los Angeles, larger than any other city. Also the largest number of illegal immigrants.

We're 46 percent foreign-born. We come from 140 countries. We speak 20 languages. Thirty-seven nationalities have their largest population here outside of their country of origin.

You're right. We need to figure out a way to make it work.

By the same token, even here there's a lot of concern about this issue. People want the federal government to do its job, to enforce our immigration laws, control our borders, but also give a pathway to citizenship for the 12 million people who are currently working in the shadows.

SANCHEZ: So just a quick checklist, because we're almost out of time. But here you are, the mayor of L.A. So just give me a "yes" or a "no."

You want more secured border so people from Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, a donde sea, in Central America, which means wherever they come from, can't get in? Yes or no?

VILLARAIGOSA: Well, we want to secure both borders.

SANCHEZ: Just a more secured border? More people --

VILLARAIGOSA: More secure borders, north and south. Not just one.

SANCHEZ: OK. That's fair.

If somebody comes to this country, they're not documented, they're illegal, and they commit a crime, kick their butt out. You agree with that?

VILLARAIGOSA: Right. Yes.

SANCHEZ: Absolutely, right?

Find a way to screen those who are here, create a process where they have to pay a fine, maybe sacrifice somewhat, but if they can go through all that, and they're screened criminally and every other way, then find a way for them to start the process of becoming a citizen of the United States.

You agree with that?

VILLARAIGOSA: Yes. Earn legalization, yes.

SANCHEZ: You see, that's interesting, because you talk to most people on both sides, and they tend to agree with those things. And yet, as soon as you talk about the argument in general, then you hear amnesty and illegal means illegal, and one side wants the open borders. And it seems like the argument is being driven by the extremes, rather than the middle. And it's not until we get to the middle that this thing's going to get figured out.

You agree?

VILLARAIGOSA: Absolutely, yes.

SANCHEZ: All right. There you go.

The mayor of Los Angeles.

It's a pleasure, sir, to have you on. Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

VILLARAIGOSA: Good to be on, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer is standing by. He's going to be joining us in just a little bit. He's going to be talking about this subject. In fact, there's a lot of stuff in the news today that we're both going to be talking about.

Stay right there, Wolf. You and I when we come back. OK?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: OK. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Hey, Wolf. I'm going to bring you in, in just a minute. Stand by, though.

Is Wolf watching? I can't see him over my shoulder.

OK.

Look at this tweet from Eva Longoria. All right?

"Probably the only time I will say, 'Go Suns!'"

Eva Longoria is watching. And the reason she says that -- Wolf can explain this to you -- is because, right, she's married to a player in the NBA who doesn't play for the Suns.

Right?

BLITZER: Tony Parker.

SANCHEZ: And he's with the Spurs?

BLITZER: With San Antonio.

SANCHEZ: And they're playing the Suns tonight, but here she's pulling for the Suns because of this thing they're doing with the "Los Suns."

BLITZER: "Los Suns." Yes, very nice. A nice gesture on the part of the Phoenix Suns -- "Los Suns."

SANCHEZ: That's a hell of a thing, though, that they're doing. I mean, when was the last time you remember a sports team getting involved in a political debate that had two equal sides?

BLITZER: Well, it's Cinco de Mayo, and they want to reach out to all the Latino and Hispanic fans in Phoenix and elsewhere.

SANCHEZ: Oh, come on! Who are you kidding, Wolf Blitzer? You know darn well the reason they're really doing this is because of --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I'm telling you what they're saying. I'm reporting what they're saying.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: You're such a good guy.

Hey, did you see my interview just moments ago with Mayor Villaraigosa?

BLITZER: Yes. He's a good guy.

SANCHEZ: Yes. It's interesting, isn't it, that there is a lot that can be done if people actually got together in good faith and reasonably argued this thing out.

Let me ask you, as a guy who's probably as hardened by years of political coverage as anybody in our network, because you've been there and you've covered every facet of government, why do you believe members of our government, Democrats, Republicans, none of them can get together and come up with a reasonable solution for a problem that all Americans want addressed?

BLITZER: Well, they tried in 2007. They had the president of the United States, George W. Bush. They had Ted Kennedy, a very liberal senator. They had John McCain, a conservative senator.

They had all sorts of Republicans and Democrats on board. Comprehensive immigration reform, paying a fine, making sure they go to the back of the line, working their way through the process. And at the end, there would be a pathway to citizenship for those who qualified.

They did their best, they tried to get it. They failed then, and it's probably going to fail this time, this year, given the current political environment. But they're trying.

SANCHEZ: And good for Arizona. Good for Arizona to get them off their duffs to make them address something that people want them to address.

I'm looking forward to watching your show today to see your coverage on this David Obey situation. That's a huge political impact story, isn't it?

BLITZER: Yes, Obey's been around forever, chairman of the Appropriations Committee, arguably one of the five most powerful members of the House of Representatives. And almost every penny that the government spends has to go through the Appropriations Committee.

And all of a sudden, today he says, you know what? He's going to retire. He's not going to seek re-election.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BLITZER: There had been some murmurings about that. He's in his early 70s, but still, these guys don't like to give up like that, but he's facing a tough challenge. In the current political environment, maybe he thought it's best to leave a winner, as opposed to being a loser.

SANCHEZ: He is saying adios.

Adios to you as well. I'll see you in just a little bit in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: As I always say in our business, day one, we tell the story with aerials up above. Day two, we get our reporters in place and they actually take you into the story, make you feel it, touch it, breathe it, smell it, experience it.

That is exactly what CNN's Martin Savidge does on this trip he takes you through into Nashville.

Let's watch it together.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): We meet Captain Tony Clark, who's only had about eight hours' sleep since Saturday, as he leads his team into another neighborhood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lady that lives there by herself and she left yesterday.

CAPTAIN TONY CLARK, ASHLAND CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT: We still need to go in and do our search. I understand that. But just in case, we need to try to see if we can get into the house.

SAVIDGE: These specially-trained firefighters were here over the weekend helping people to evacuate. Now they're back, making sure everyone made it out -- alive.

CLARK: This will keep us from having to search these houses again. We'll mark them, we'll know they're clear and we won't have to come back and waste resources again.

SAVIDGE: Located down the stream from Nashville, Ashland City is still battling the water. It's down some but still has a long way to go. And so does Captain Clark.

CLARK: Everything's clear here, so we're going on to our next area from here.

SAVIDGE: A half-mile from city hall on a road that's now above ground, we hitch a ride with a group of different firefighters searching where only boats can go. For Deputy Chief Derek Noe, these are familiar waters. His son usually plays soccer on field 15 feet beneath us.

The floodwaters have brought new dangers of which propane tanks are just one.

(on camera): Here's the latest hazard these days of navigating the Cumberland. You have to avoid the traffic lights.

(voice-over): Out here, the water plays tricks on you. Some houses don't look so bad until you realize until you're looking at the third floor.

(on camera): Sunday, when these crews first came out, it was to warn the residents that the floodwaters were coming. About two-thirds decided to stay. Ever since then, the teams have been out pulling in all the people who stayed behind. DEPUTY CHIEF DEREK NOE, ASHLAND CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT: We had some that even got ugly with us and said they'd sleep on their roof or whatever if they had to, that they weren't going to leave, they were going to ride it out. We picked them up the following day off their roof, so they got their wish.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Just trying to get to a home for a closer look isn't easy. First you have to clear the trees.

NOE: You don't know what's underneath you, trampolines, swimming pools.

SAVIDGE: In the end, we fortunately don't find anyone and head back. You wonder how long it will be before Ashland City gets back to normal. From the looks of things, it's going to take some time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: All right. Let me count down some of the biggest floods that's affected the United States, certainly the deadliest.

Number five: the big Thompson River in Colorado, 1976 -- 144 people died.

Number four: St. Patrick's Day floods in New England. The year was 1936. More than 150 killed.

Number three: Willow Creek, Oregon, 1903. More than 200 people killed.

Number two: South Dakota, 1972. Two hundred and thirty-seven people were killed in that one.

But the deadliest, the worst, number one: the Ohio River flood of 1913. Death toll, 467 people were killed, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.

From the show about lists to the show about the situation, "THE SITUATION ROOM" is hosted by none other than Mr. Wolf Blitzer. And here he is.

Wolf, to you.