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Rick's List
Special Edition: Capping the Leak
Aired May 26, 2010 - 14:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Rick, it is under way. We know it's hours before we're likely to be seeing something, but you see these cameras moving around. Clearly something's happening over the sea.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Well, I will tell you, we have been planning for this all day long. We thought the timing might coincide with when we got started here.
As we look at this picture right here -- we're going to keep it on the right of the screen -- here's what we're going to bring you over the next couple of hours.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST.
Will top kill work? Can they cap this disastrous leak?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want results. We're tired of promises.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are we going to do? How are we going to survive?
SANCHEZ: Fingers crossed, tempers flare.
TONY HAYWARD, CEO, BP GROUP: We rate the probability of success as somewhere between 60 and 70 percent.
SANCHEZ: Why is it being run by this guy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go in, completely take over, perhaps with the military in charge.
SANCHEZ: We're drilling down on this RICK'S LIST special edition: "Capping the Leak."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And here we go. Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Look at these pictures. And, by the way, I should let you know, these are not the only ones we have. We have a bevy of pictures that look an awful lot like these. We're going to be taking you to all different angles of exactly what it is that this top kill is doing. We are right now at this particular place in this operation. Let me catch you up, for those of you joining us now right here at 3:00. The Coast Guard, two-and-a-half-hours ago, gave the go-ahead for top kill to begin.
BP says it officially started exactly one hour ago. So, top kill is now officially under way. I know. They are two words, two words that mean little to most of us, until we start seeing, A, results, and, B, exactly what this will do, in other words, when we actually see it in these video images.
Now, here's the good news. We have, potentially, as many as eight or nine different video images that I'm going to be sharing with you throughout this newscast. You're looking right now at live pictures from several angles of what exactly is going on 5,000 feet below the surface of the Gulf of Mexico.
You see that? My plan is to try and take you through a thorough explanation of each of these shots. There they are. Remember, I told you there could be as many as eight or nine? Well, there's seven of them right there, one, two, three, four across the top, and one, two, three across the bottom road.
From time to time, I will go into each of these shots and try and explain to you what's happening in each one, why it's relevant to this top kill operation, and whether it's potentially good news or bad news. Will it work? Will it not work? Or will it make the situation even worse?
All right, here's what the impact is going to be. The environment, first of all, let's look at that. These are recently recorded videos that tell the story. Split the screen, if you possibly can, Rog. Look at this. All right? Consider this as well. A Texas A&M University study that reveals that oil, tourism, fishing, shipping account for $234 billion a year in the Gulf of Mexico. And if the Gulf were a country, it would be the 29th largest economy in the world.
Tourism -- in Florida, tourists are canceling vacations scheduled for three months from now. In Mississippi, cancellation rates are running at nearly 50 percent. Now let's key in on some of these images that we're looking at now. And I understand that we have got some folks that we can talk to about this. Among those -- in fact, let me do this.
Let me bring Chad Myers into the equation.
Chad, you have been looking at these pictures. And I know that a lot of them are coming in. And I'm just thinking out loud here. Look, on the right, we have got those Cousteau pictures that we have been talking about that show all the water.
All right, take the picture on the left full, if you would, now, Roger.
And as we get through this, do you have an idea now? I have got a couple of -- I have got a couple of engineers, one from Rice University, the other one from Tulane. They're both going to be sharing information with us about what's going on. You've been following this for some time.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Sure.
SANCHEZ: I know we're only an hour into it, but where are we right now?
MYERS: The split-screen that you showed early, four on top, three on the bottom, it's the top left picture that we're looking at. The top left picture is the closest to the blowout preventer. It is the kink. It is the kink right above the blowout preventer. And that has not changed color.
SANCHEZ: Tell me which picture again.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: The top left.
SANCHEZ: Top left.
MYERS: Left.
SANCHEZ: Top row left.
MYERS: Top row left is the closest one to where the mud will be filled.
SANCHEZ: All right. Stop right now.
Andreas (ph), have our tech guy who's shooting these images, have him go tight on that image on the left, number one, top row. See if he can do that, because, right now, it's too hard for the -- I think, for the audience at home to make sense out of all four of these.
MYERS: It's probably better on high definition at home, compared to maybe the 4x3, the old -- the old TV set. So, people at home can probably see it better than we can here.
SANCHEZ: But let me just tell you, we originally had communication with the tech guy who's shooting this picture.
MYERS: OK.
SANCHEZ: But we have just lost that communication, so we can't go in tight on it.
MYERS: All right.
SANCHEZ: So, go ahead and explain what you have got.
MYERS: The oil is coming out of that kink, that top left kink, the top picture that you saw there. It's the closest to the well itself, closest to the reservoir itself. That's the first place that the mud will leak out of, because it is -- it will be where they start pumping the mud. That's the biggest rub on this, Rick.
If the -- if all of this mud that they try to pump in there --
SANCHEZ: There it is. There it is.
MYERS: -- if it all just leaks out the top anyway, if it gets blown out through the rest of this -- this gas, this methane, this oil, if it just comes out the top and doesn't go down and doesn't push this oil down the well, then, this is all for naught. That's the one way that this could really fail.
SANCHEZ: Satish Nagarajaiah is a engineer, civil environmental engineer professor at Rice University. And he is good enough to join us now to also help us go through these pictures. With me here, of course, is going to be Chad Myers and Brooke Baldwin.
We're both going to be -- or the three of us are going to be going through this over the course of the next several hours and trying to make sense of this. We needed to have someone who has experience with these kind of pipes and these kind of apparatus, apparati, I would say, to make sure we understand it.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: We're trying to put toothpaste back in the tube.
SANCHEZ: Exactly.
MYERS: That's where we are this point in time.
SANCHEZ: Professor, are you there, sir?
SATISH NAGARAJAIAH, PROFESSOR, CIVIL ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING, RICE UNIVERSITY: Yes, I am.
SANCHEZ: I'm so glad that you are with us.
We understand we're one hour into this. We're looking at separate pictures. The one that we're looking at right there represents what?
NAGARAJAIAH: That's the site of the BOP, where the check and kill valves are. And you're seeing the images being shot by the ROV. Those are the connects where the --
SANCHEZ: The ROV -- the ROV is a submersible.
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes.
SANCHEZ: In other words, it's like a little tiny submarine down there. And the BOP that you just referred to is the blowout preventer.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That was already on the ground. Continue, sir. NAGARAJAIAH: Yes.
And so they have connected lines -- three-inch lines to both the choke and kill lines. And what you're seeing there is the connection to one of the valves. And they're going to -- they have started pumping mud into the lines. And it's been an hour since they started. And we will see -- basically, the mud is going to neutralize the pressure of the oil and gas coming out of the well.
And, eventually -- of course, right now, we are not seeing any mud coming out of the other end of the riser, which is on the ocean floor, but eventually we should be seeing some mud seeping out through the other end also. But most of it will go into the well, and hopefully will neutralize the pressure and stop the leak.
SANCHEZ: Can you -- do you have a TV in front of you, sir?
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes, I have one.
SANCHEZ: Let me show you what I just had someone do. I asked them, essentially, to take a piece of pipe fitting. And I had them drill holes in it, and then I went down to the cafeteria and got some straws and stuck them in this.
Essentially, it's almost, if this were the leak from the bottom of the ocean, they're literally are sticking this giant pipe fitting into it and then blowing the mud and the concrete into these until it fills up with enough of the concrete and mud to literally put pressure on this at the bottom to get it to equalize.
I -- from a layman's perspective -- I'm not a scientist. I'm not at Rice University, like yourself -- but is that essentially what they are trying to do?
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes.
I think you have it right on the dot, actually. If you think of that pipe being filled with water and the water gushing out of the top of the pipe, you're essentially trying to force the mud through the side straws, if you will, that you have, and try to neutralize the pressure coming up through the well and stop the leak. You know, that's what they're trying to do.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And the mud -- the mud and the concrete that will fill -- look at this right there -- the mud and the concrete that will fill that and push down is heavier than the oil and natural gas that's coming out of the ground, eventually, right? That's the hope?
NAGARAJAIAH: Well, yes, that's true.
I mean, the mud is heavier than the oil and gas that's coming out, but the pressure that the oil and gas is exerting is greater than the mud that is trying to exert pressure. Eventually, those two will equilibrate. And once that happens, hopefully they can get control of the well.
SANCHEZ: So, the key is for -- that's interesting, what you just said.
Essentially, what he's saying, Chad and Brooke, is that right now you've got two forces going against each other. The mud and the concrete are heavier than the oil and the natural gas, but the oil and the natural gas have more pressure shooting it up. So, at some point, those two will reach equilibrium. The pressure of the gas will be equal to the weight of the concrete and the mud. And --
MYERS: The mud first. Mud goes in first.
SANCHEZ: The mud first.
MYERS: Once the mud stops the flow, then they put the concrete in.
SANCHEZ: And that pushes it down..
MYERS: No, it just holds it.
SANCHEZ: -- at some point.
MYERS: Holds it.
SANCHEZ: What will then -- will the concrete, then, essentially push it down, Professor?
NAGARAJAIAH: No. The mud is going to hold down the oil and gas initially. So, this is called control of the well. First, they need to gain control of the well by pushing the mud into the well bore and neutralizing the pressure, which you just mentioned, two equal forces acting opposite to each other.
Once they control the well, then they will pump cement into the well, and then the cement fills -- you know, it fills the well and hardens and essentially forms a plug. That -- that's the best scenario. Of course, we will see how it unfolds.
SANCHEZ: Professor, here comes the $60,000 question. You, sir, are an expert. You understand these procedures and these -- this equipment better than, certainly, all of us in the studio right now.
Tell us, from your experience, what chance you give of this method of actually working.
NAGARAJAIAH: You know, I would put at the same as what Tony Hayward, who -- the chairman of BP, put it, at 60 to 70 percent, actually.
SANCHEZ: Sixty to 70 percent?
(CROSSTALK)
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes. The reason for that is, think about this. You had this pipe with all these straws sticking out. You're trying to neutralize the pressure from below with the flow of mud from above.
But when you're doing that, all these leaks are spurting out all the time. So, that's the problem. If there was -- the pipe was integral, without these leaks coming out, you would get control of the well very quickly, but, unfortunately, that's not the case.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And that -- Chad, that's the point you have made. It's not about one leak. It's more than one leak. And that's the problem. Sometimes, you pressure one point, you get more escaping from the other side.
Professor Satish, can you hold on just a moment? We have got -- in fact, you may want to join into on this conversation as well.
And the professor -- pardon me -- the senator from Florida may have some questions for you as well.
Senator Bill Nelson, as most of you know who watch RICK'S LIST every day, is one of the original critics of BP, one of the original critics of this operation, the way it's being handled. And he's joining us now to bring us up to date on what's happening.
There is a 30 percent chance, according to Tony Hayward, Senator, and we have just heard from Professor Satish that he believes there's a 30 percent chance as well, that this thing won't work. If this top kill method does not work, what then?
SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: Well, we are prayerfully hopeful that it's going to work, because, if it doesn't, and they try a couple of these other things, the junk shot and so forth, then you're talking about until August until the relief wells can get down, take the pressure off of this well and kill the well that way.
Rick, you invited me to ask the professor a question. And, by the way, I'm very impressed with the discussion. You all have made it very, very clear.
Professor, when they pump the heavy mud down into the wellhead, how far does it have to go down in order to have how much of the wellhead covered with cement in order to make a secure enough pipe, so that the pressure is not going to blow the cement out? How far down from the wellhead do you have to pump that cement?
NAGARAJAIAH: They would have to go -- you know, the mud is approximately going to weigh about 13 pounds per gallon, and they're pumping about 40 to 50 gallons per minute, and so they would have to go at least a few thousand feet before they can actually neutralize the two -- the pressure of the formation.
So, I would say -- I have not calculated exactly, but I would say 3,000 feet, at least.
(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: Is that -- just let -- yes, I'm just confused -- 2,000 to 3,000 feet in the -- here, let me put my example up again -- 2,000 to 3,000 feet in this pipe over the bottom of the ocean, or do you mean under the bottom of the ocean, Professor?
NAGARAJAIAH: From the --
(CROSSTALK)
NELSON: He means under, Rick.
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes. The senator is right.
SANCHEZ: Under?
NELSON: Yes.
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Interesting.
Go on, Senator Nelson.
NELSON: Rick, from the wellhead at the bottom of the ocean all the way down to the reservoir of oil is 13,000 feet. And the professor just told us that they would pump that cement down 2,000 to 3,000 feet down that 13,000-foot pipe in order to get a hard enough cement seal, so that all the pressure of that oil down 13,000 feet is not going to blow it out.
Is that correct, Professor?
NAGARAJAIAH: Senator, what I mean is, first, they need to get control of the well. That means to say that the mud and the pressure from the formation have to be neutralized.
So, what I was talking about was mud, approximately about that much mud, before they can even get control of the well. And once they do that, once the pressure is neutralized, then they would go and pump cement and form the plug. So, you're talking of more cement on top of the mud column about a few thousand feet.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
NELSON: There's your answer, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Senator Bill Nelson.
By the way, before I let you go, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions. You know, you have been -- frustrated would probably be a euphemism for your mental state throughout this process. I go back to my original question.
If this thing doesn't work, or, heaven forbid, if as is still a viable option, it actually makes things worse, do we leave this in the hands of Tony Hayward, or is it time to take a step into plan B, and what would you suggest plan B should be?
NELSON: If this thing doesn't work, then the president ought to turn this over to the military. It has the command structure to bring in all the civilian agencies.
We did this before when there was so much oil around after the first Gulf War, including four inches of oil on top of the Persian Gulf for thousands of square miles. It's time now.
You have got to have BP's cooperation, because they have got the technical instruments, but, you know, we have got to have somebody take charge. And I think the U.S. military is best suited to do that.
SANCHEZ: It's amazing.
I will tell you, it's something to think about.
Senator Bill Nelson, as usual, thanks so much, sir, for taking time to talk to us. And you know what? Stay in contact with us, because we're going to be following this over the next couple of hours. And we will see -- if you learn something we don't know about, give us a call, would you?
NELSON: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it. We will get you right on.
Meanwhile, when we come back, we are going to be addressing that situation while we follow the rest of this and continue to show you all the different images. If, indeed, the United -- I want you to think about this during the break. If, indeed, the United States government, vis-a-vis the United States military, has to step in and deal with this situation, if it is a worst-case scenario, what can they do? What do we do with a nuclear sub, for example? How would it possibly be used down there? How would the U.S. Navy be initiated or actualized?
General Russel Honore was the military top gun who was called to solve the last national disaster in Illinois -- in New Orleans, which was, as you know, Katrina. He joins me next.
Stay right there. This is RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Rick. Doug in Seattle.
I keep hearing everybody saying, oh, we don't have the technology to kill this well. Yet, doesn't it strike you as odd that we have the technology to put it there in the first place? I mean, that took a little bit of doing, didn't it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. Welcome back.
Let me set the scene for you, those of you just now getting home and you are joining us. The picture you're lacking at there is a live streaming shot of top kill. In other words, it has begun. About an hour and 20 minutes ago, they officially began this attempt to try and cap the leak in the Gulf of Mexico to avert a further disaster.
With me at my right, as usual, is Chad Myers. Brooke Baldwin is standing by as well. And she's going to be taking us through part of this conversation.
As we look at these pictures, these live video images, we have, at any given moment, anywhere between six, seven, eight of them. I will take you through those.
And to help us understand what those are, because none of us here are engineers capable of understanding what all these pipe fittings and everything does, we have Professor Satish Nagarajaiah, civil and environmental engineer, professor at Rice University, who is an expert on this.
And the question has now been raised as to what happens if this doesn't work. The good professor told us moments ago there's a 30 percent chance that this could not work. That seems to be the same percentage that was given by Tony Hayward, who, by the way, we expect he might be giving a news briefing any moment. When he does, you are going to see it here live. We expect he may be making some news.
But if in fact that doesn't happen, then what's the next step? Does the Obama administration step in and say, you know what, it's time to take it out of Tony Hayward's hands, it's time for the government to step in, it's time for the United States military to do what it's done in the past and try to find a solution to this potential disaster?
Joining me now, General Russel Honore. General Russel Honore, as you know, was the military commander who was called into Katrina when it seemed that that situation was a disaster. And many say that he was the one who was able to bring a sense of control over that theater.
General, I have a very simple question for you. What could the U.S. military do in this situation in the Gulf?
LIEUTENANT GENERAL RUSSEL HONORE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Rick, I think the military could best be used in helping to track the oil that's already in the ocean and put manpower and command-and-control to try and protect the shorelines from that oil getting in.
That is -- based on the equipment we have got, the training we have would be the best use of the military, to increase command-and- control and have sufficient enough vehicles and situational awareness where to go block next or where to move the booms to.
SANCHEZ: Why aren't they there right now? Why are we now 37 days into this without the U.S. military taking an active role? I know they're there. I know there are parts of the military that are being used.
HONORE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I know the Coast Guard is being used, but I'm talking something that's even more prevalent that the American people could see, visually, just as they saw you marching into -- into Katrina and just like they see our troops right now proactively in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.
HONORE: Absolutely.
Right now, we have the Civil Air Patrol involved and we're using a couple C-130s to pass out dispersants. And the National Guard from Louisiana has about 1,500 Guardsmen basically doing earth work and helping doing some security.
SANCHEZ: You know, pardon me for saying this, but that doesn't sound like a lot.
HONORE: It's not a lot. There's a lot more boots on the ground, but, remember, Rick, there's a lot of work force there. Under the U.S. government, there's something called the Economy Act. We shouldn't be using soldiers to do things that companies can do.
You can put a lot of those fishermen to work. On the other hand, what the military could best do is command-and-control. I don't think we have got the expertise to cap that well, but we could build more command-and-control. We can help take care of the people. And the president ought to invoke the Stafford Act, so the Stafford Act can take care of the people and empower the governors and the parish presidents to buy what they need to fight that oil coming ashore.
SANCHEZ: The Stafford --
(CROSSTALK)
HONORE: Right.
SANCHEZ: The Stafford Act. Go on. I'm sorry.
HONORE: Yes.
And, right now, the governor of Louisiana asks for materials. He go to the Coast Guard, he go to BP and they decide if it's going to be purchased or not. We need to change the game and put the governors in charge of protecting this shoreline at the high water mark, along with bringing more command-and-control in.
We have got to get the government to take care of the people, not BP. The people of this country voted for presidents, senators, and congressmen to protect them, not BP. We shouldn't have BP taking care of the people. That should be the government.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question about the U.S. Navy.
I know you're an Army man. But let me ask you a question about the U.S. Navy. I know that we have nuclear submarines. We have, in fact, one of the best, if not the best, fleet in the entire world, capable of going down at these depths.
Why not initiate some kind of response from the U.S. Navy to help either in an intel situation, where they can assist in seeing actually what's going down there with the pipes, photographing the situation, if not actually fixing the leak itself?
HONORE: Yes.
I think the tradecrafts are totally different, petroleum undersea (INAUDIBLE) with our Navy, and I'm pretty well briefed on what they can do at deepwater situation with nuclear. The tradecrafts are similar, but very different, Rick.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You just -- so, in other words, I mean, I'm asking. Look, I don't know.
HONORE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And I'm asking on behalf of the American people.
HONORE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: We always tend to think, General, as Americans -- and this is maybe why we're so frustrated -- we see our guys over there solving the problems of the Iraqis. We see our guys over there solving the problems of the Afghanis. We have seen our guys, many, many of them -- you have been there -- in Korea and in parts of Europe.
And now it's our country that is in need. And we're thinking, why can't we use that same amount of money, of resources, and of boots on the ground or in this case in the water to solve our problems, to solve America's big problem this time? It's a -- just a -- you know, it's a commonsense question that a lot of people watching this newscast would have of you.
HONORE: Yes.
You know, Rick, we wouldn't be having this conversation if oil spills were punitive. We went into this thing under legislation -- under rules that were based on the Exxon Valdez spill. We need to change -- Congress needs to be changing the law now that make oil spills punitive, and if you're a regulator and you follow -- fail to follow the law, you could go to jail.
And, right now, BP should be charged $100 million a day for every day oil is getting in there. Congress can pass that law this week. They need to pass it and get on with it and create a fund, because we're still in the first quarter of this disaster. SANCHEZ: Well, we talk about this being an institutional failure, and it seems, just from your answer there, sir, that you would tend to agree. Russel Honore, General, thank you, sir, for taking time to talk to us. And we will be reaching back out to you, because we're going to be on the air for the next couple of hours as we -- as we follow this dire situation in the Gulf of Mexico.
Chad, what do you make of that?
MYERS: I'm trying to figure out -- and we're going to go back to the professor, Satish, because there's some engineering going on here, in my head, because I was a mechanical engineer for a while. If we have to fill this well up with 2,000 to 3,000 feet of this mud --
SANCHEZ: Under the surface of --
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: -- under the surface, we can go 50 gallons a second, or whatever the professor said, best-case scenario, what if we don't lose any mud at all? What if it all goes down the well. It must -- it's still going to take hours to get that much mud to flow down to make that much of a column.
SANCHEZ: How long?
MYERS: I don't know.
SANCHEZ: Let's ask.
Professor, are you there sir?
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes, I am.
SANCHEZ: Professor, hang tight. We're going to sneak a break in.
When we come back, in -- to answer Chad's question, we're trying to get a sense of timing over this. I'm also going to bring in Brooke Baldwin. We have got live pictures coming in from six or seven different angles that I'm going to be taking you through.
I want you to answer his question. And, also, if you could, sir, I want you to start giving us a description of these different feeds as we watch them.
This is breaking news and a special edition of RICK'S LIST, "Capping the Leak."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. We're calling it capping the leak, and we're staying with this story for the better part of the next couple of hours. These are live pictures, for those of you joining us for the first time. We have a bevy of them and we are going to be taking you through them from time to time.
We also have been talking a lot about the environmental impact, the economic impact, the impact on tourism, the impact on the fishing industry, and whether or not this is really now an institutional failure as opposed to just a mistake on one simple oil rig.
Listen now to this sound bite from Barbara Boxer spoken just moments ago, I understand. Hit that, if you would, Roger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARBARA BOXER, (D) CALIFORNIA: There is a culture within the MMS that has been completely exposed by the media in investigative reporting that shows without a question that they were literally and figuratively in bed with the oil company, OK, with the companies. Some of them even said they felt like they were working for the oil companies.
This is a disastrous situation waiting to happen, and it happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There you have Barbara Boxer talking about the fact that some changes may be coming when we get out of this situation we're now in.
For those of you just now joining us, there is apparently, according to a professor from Reich University who we have been speaking to, who is an absolute expert on this, he agrees with Tony Hayward, the chief executive officer of BP that there is a 70 percent chance this thing will work and a 30 percent chance that it won't work.
What are we talking about? We're talking about top kill, an operation that has started as an hour and 34 minutes ago to try and plug or cap that leak from that well.
All right, let's take -- split the screen into eight parts and look at all the different videos that are coming in from under the ocean. See them right there? Well, I misspoke, there are seven. We are missing the eighth one. You see the top row with different four shots, and three on the bottom row.
Let's begin, if we could, Andreas, in the control room, with the one all the way over, top left, top row, number one, and let's see what that is. Professor, for the benefit of our viewers, as we go through these, tell us what this is and whether or not it has any significance, sir.
NAGARAJAIAH: The top left-hand corner one, that's the leak from the top of the blowout preventer where the riser is connected to this big valve that we are talking about, the blowout preventer. And so you're seeing the leak from the riser. So there are leaks right at the connection between the riser and the valve.
SANCHEZ: So this is, and I don't mean to interrupt, but just to help us together explain this to our viewers who have very little knowledge of this, essentially this is the bottom of the ocean and this is oil and natural gas coming out.
And what we want to do is eventually -- Chad, help me out here -- is eventually, this is the stuff that's coming out with this pen, is put that over that and hope we can put enough pressure down to push down on that that we're looking at right there. Correct, sir?
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes, that's right.
MYERS: The top of this, where this leak is, give me this blowout preventer you've built here.
SANCHEZ: All right. How'd I do?
MYERS: You did all right.
Here's this blowout preventer, it's on the ground, it's been on the ground since this entire thing started. This stent used to go all the way to the drill, the thing that blew up. When that thing blew up, it had no more connection and it fell down.
So as it fell right down, right there is that kink. That kink like a hole was cracked. So there are cracks right on the very top. That's the picture I'm watching to see if the color changes, because that's where the mud will come out.
SANCHEZ: So obviously that hasn't happened yet, because we're still looking at that and it's naked essentially to the water. Nothing is covering it, and we'll stop seeing that.
MYERS: No, no, nothing gets covered. The mud goes into these pipes that you were blowing in earlier. Remember that dome they were trying to build. That didn't work. That's not how they're trying to do this.
They're pumping the mud into the blowout preventer that's already there. That mud is going to settle all the way down below the crust of the surface, like the professor said, for 2,000 to 3,000 feet. And that heavy mud will push the oil and the natural gas, the methane that's coming up, it will push it down and hold it there.
And then they will fill that thing up with concrete and then that will be a plug.
SANCHEZ: Meanwhile, you see all that oil that's coming out right there? Look at owl that oil and natural gas as it continues to spew.
Brooke Baldwin's been following this part of the story, professor, and she's been talking to some of the folks at the Cousteau Society. You may be interested in knowing it's not just oil that's coming out there and not just oil that's immediately popping to the very top of the surface and creating this sheen that we've seen.
This thing is mixed in with the sea life throughout the gulf. In fact, Brooke, can you show us some of this for us?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sure. Let me queue up some of these pictures. Professor, this was shot under water, and you can see from what I'm guessing and from what I've seen being down there, it's the dispersants mixed in with some of this emulsified oil.
You can see there's a little fish right there. Obviously, I don't think it takes a science professor or an ecologist to know that can't be a good thing, right?
SANCHEZ: Professor?
NAGARAJAIAH: Right, yes. You're right. It's a mixture of oil and gas coming up, bubbling up, and of course gas escapes, but then the oil remains, and that is causing all the effect on the marine life and the coastal regions.
SANCHEZ: Let's go to picture top three in that eight box that we established a little while ago. Take the big shot, if you would, and then let's see if we can zoom into that other shot. All right, number three on the top row, number three on the top row. There you go. Professor, what is this?
NAGARAJAIAH: If I can -- this is the connection they've made to the choke and kill lines, the valves which are on the side of the BOP. I think that's what we are seeing there. So these are being maneuvered by the robots. That's what we are seeing in that --
SANCHEZ: What is a choke and kill line?
NAGARAJAIAH: You know, in your little contraption that you had, you have these straws on the sides?
SANCHEZ: Got it right here.
NAGARAJAIAH: Those straws on the sides are what are called choke/kill lines, and this is the connection to that that you're seeing, actually.
SANCHEZ: Oh, they're connecting it into the actual the blowout preventer, BOP.
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Brooke, how is this going over on the gulf of Mexico with some of the residents there?
BALDWIN: Not well. I mean, it's interesting hearing your discussion of the top kill, the mechanics of the top kill, it's the tangible, right.
But there's this whole other layer, and that's the intangible, the emotion. And it seems that all these people I've been listening to, they are at their breaking point. You see guys like this staring at a sign that cedes "Beach closed," standing there incredulous.
You have fishermen who are out of work and now they're hoping that BP will call them up to give them some work to put those booms out there. And I think we should have, Roger, a sound bite cued up because we have this one guy -- we do have it.
We have this one sound bite from this gentleman who is talking about how fishing is his heritage and how he's saying that BP has just taken it away. Let's roll that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAGARAJAIAH: Can you replace my heritage? I'm not seeing BP coming to help me save my heritage yet. That's important to me, just as important as any money. You're not going to replace me being able to teach me kid how to fish. How can you replace that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: There you go, the anger is palpable.
SANCHEZ: Tempers are flaring.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: We're watching it as we watched the process of this top kill operation. We are now one hour and 41 minutes into it. How long is it going to go? Professor, before we go to break, we promised you'd tell us, what is your best guess?
NAGARAJAIAH: Let me back up and tell you what I sort of talked when the Senator Nelson was online. I said, you know, approximately 2,000, 3,000 feet to start with before they can even get any control.
But they really have to go to about 10,000 feet of mud before day get complete control of the well because that is the point when, remember, you were saying the two pressures get neutralized, the force acting down, the force acting up, so that has to happen.
And to give you a rough estimate, you know, they're pumping in about one barrel per minute. And the rough equal end of 600 barrels is what it takes for every 1,000 feet. So you can make the calculation, so 10,000 feet, ten times 6,000 barrels, approximately, so you're talking about that much time, one barrel per minute.
SANCHEZ: It could be ten hours.
NAGARAJAIAH: More, actually.
SANCHEZ: More?
MYERS: Sure, 6,000 minutes.
SANCHEZ: I was going to say, when you said "you make the calculation," I was going to remind you that I went to journalism school at the University of Minnesota, and they didn't teach us to count.
(LAUGHTER)
NAGARAJAIAH: Rick, let me say this -- that every 1,000 feet will take about ten hours.
SANCHEZ: Every 1,000 feet will take about ten hours.
NAGARAJAIAH: There are 600 barrels, one barrel per minute. So you're talking about 600 minutes there, which is ten hours. And then, you know, then you're talking of 10,000 feet. So we are talking a couple of days here.
MYERS: So ten times ten, professor, that's 100 hours.
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes, yes, before they get complete control of the well. Remember, you know, about 2,000 to 3,000 feet, we're going to start seeing reduction in the leak, hopefully, and then they have to go all the way to about 10,000 feet before they can completely stop the oil from leaking and formation pressure is neutralized.
So that's going to take that much time.
SANCHEZ: So within ten hours, we'll start to see the first evidence of a neutralization of the outpouring, but it will --
NAGARAJAIAH: Partial neutralization.
SANCHEZ: Partial, right. But we'll certainly not see a stoppage or a plugging or a capping, if we can use those words unscientifically, of course, for potentially four days.
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes, I would say three days at least. Remember, these are all estimates that are back of the envelope calculations, but approximately that.
SANCHEZ: I certainly respect that. Chad? Can you hold it though, because we're dying to get a break in.
MYERS: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: We're going to get a break in. We are following, folks, this live coverage of the very beginning of what we hope is the end of this disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. Top kill has begun and we are dedicated to bringing you every aspect that we can think of this story.
And if we're missing something, my twitter board is open. Let me know. We'll continue this national conversation. Your list, "RICK'S LIST," in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We're calling it capping the leak. Welcome back, everyone. This is a very important couple of hours that we're going to be going through here, because the operation has just begun and we're told that if there are problems, we would probably be able to both hear about them and visualize them.
Why? Because of these seven different videos that we're monitoring for you. Let's show those, if we possibly can. Each one of these takes a different angle of the situation in the Gulf of Mexico.
Well, now we're down to six, it looks like. It looks like one of them is down. So the top row, you see those three images, and then three in the bottom row as well.
You know, we haven't gone in tight on number three top. Let's go tight in on that one. If the photographer at the venue where these are being shown can do that for us, we certainly would appreciate it. Let's take a look at what that is.
Now, that looks really interesting. It actually looks like there's something going on. That looks like a robotic arm on a submersible that is doing some kind of operation. I'm going to let Chad, who has certainly more --
MYERS: You better ask the professor, because I don't know what I'm looking at right now.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I'm going to ask Chad and the professor to help us with this. All right, professor, you've been nominated, sir. What is this? What do you think this could be from your experience?
NAGARAJAIAH: From what I see here, I think this is the top of the manifold. Let me explain what a manifold is. You have these long tubes coming from the ocean surface connecting to these troughs that you have in your contraption.
In the middle of that, they have a little valve of pressure container, if you will, which is called a manifold. That's the top of the manifold, I suspect. Again, this is what I think it is.
SANCHEZ: Are you referring -- when you said "contraption," you're talking about the blowout preventer itself, the whole apparatus?
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes. You know, this is separate from that. It's sitting on the ocean floor, and this manifold is what is coming all the way from the drill rig down to the ocean floor.
Then you have the manifold, then another piece of pipe, and then you have the choke and kill valves and then the blowout preventer, which is that contraption that you showed. So this manifold, I think, is what you're seeing there.
SANCHEZ: Now, this submersible there, this robotic arm on this little tiny submarine, when I was a kid, I used to call those balto- spheres (ph). They went way down to the bottom of the ocean. That has the capability of actually moving things and cutting things and grabbing things?
NAGARAJAIAH: Moving -- grabbing things and move, not cutting yet.
SANCHEZ: OK, moving and grabbing. NAGARAJAIAH: And eyes and ears, of course.
SANCHEZ: Say again, sir?
NAGARAJAIAH: Eyes and ears, as you're seeing right now.
SANCHEZ: I got it. It has eyes and ears. OK. Chad?
MYERS: Professor, we've note noticed that this well continuously changing. Sometimes there's a lot of oil, sometimes there a lot of natural gas. Does that mix or that changing of the mix affect the way the mud goes in and how much mud we need?
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes, of course. You know, if the full flow is coming it will take longer. If the flow is less and the mixture has more gas in it, then they'll be able to do it faster.
But unfortunately it's fluctuating. It's a mixture of about 60 percent to 70 percent oil and about 30 percent of gas. And that also fluctuates. The rate it comes is also fluctuating. So I think that is a process they have to go and do it on the go here. And so that's the thing which makes it very valuable.
MYERS: Can the natural gas or the oil, either one, bubble up and push the mud into the ocean instead of allowing it go down and compressing and stopping the mud and the oil from coming up anymore?
NAGARAJAIAH: Initially, yes. Initially it will do it. Initially when they start pumping the mud, the gas and oil will push the mud out of the other end. But eventually -- remember, they're forcing this mud at high pressure. So eventually you are going to see the oil and gas are going to be pushed down.
So that's going to probably happen in about a day's time or so.
SANCHEZ: And no one's -- this thing that we're watching now, no one's ever done this before?
NAGARAJAIAH: Yes. This is the first time. I think, you know, it's -- what we are seeing here is really, truly technology in action, unfortunately under very dire circumstances, but you're right. This is the first time.
SANCHEZ: Professor, you are really a saint to stay with us as long as you have. We're just going to ask you to hang with us.
NAGARAJAIAH: Sure.
SANCHEZ: We're all kind of learning this going through this together. I'm sure hundreds of thousands of people at home are watching this with us, and they got their fingers crossed as well.
We're going to take a quick break. We're going to come back with more. We're going to continue going through these images and learning as we go. Then there's the political end of this involving the Obama administration, some people saying this is fast becoming his Katrina. Roland Martin joins us in just a little bit and becomes a part of our panel conversation.
You're watching your national conversation, your list, "RICK'S LIST."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: This just in, just taking a quick detour from our coverage of the situation in the gulf. Welcome back, everyone.
When I was a little kid I used to love to watch this man, and I used to love particularly how he related to little kids because he had this thing where he talked to kids, and then he'd say, "Kids say the Darndest thing." He's an American television pioneer. He has just died.
Younger folks may not know the name, but your parents certainly do and your grandparents certainly do. This is Art Linkletter, the host of radio shows and television shows beginning in the 1940s, "House Party," and his most famous series, of course, shows and books called "Kids say the Darndest Things."
There's not enough time to list all of his achievements or the people in broadcasting who he inspired, including myself. Art Linkletter died today in his home in Los Angeles. We send our thoughts and prayers to his family. He was 97 years old.
As we continue our coverage now, I'd like to show you some of the pictures we've been going through. Let's go to the top six, I believe, we are down to now. Some of them come in, and some of them go out.
It seems to me the most fascinating one of all is the one on the top row right, number three. But, wait, something's going on with number two. Let's go in tight on number two and see what that submersible is doing, that small submarine as we referred to it. It seems to be going into part of this now.
By the way, our panel is growing. Roland Martin is joining us now as well. He's going to be sticking around and helping us with our coverage. And obviously there is a political aspect to this story as well.
But, professor, would you take us through what this image seems to be and explain to viewers what you think the significance of this could be?
NAGARAJAIAH: Rick, this is the top of the blowout preventer, and the white pipe that you are seeing is the lower packet through which the riser is connected, and then, of course, the riser comes which has fallen on the ocean floor.
SANCHEZ: Thank you, sir. Roland Martin joining us now. Roland Martin, a lot of folks being very critical of the United States. It would be expected. Any president would be criticized at a moment like this at a situation that doesn't seem to have a solution yet.
Now the criticism has heightened because the president has been doing some appearances at fundraisers, and some people ask, why not cancel the fundraisers and go down to the gulf of Mexico and seem to be in charge? You say what?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: First of all, he is traveling to the Gulf of Mexico. That trip has already been announced.
But you always have this happening. Whether you're talking about Republicans or Democrats -- we also saw where EPA administrator Lisa Jackson was supposed to be at a democratic reelection campaign committee fundraiser in Manhattan, and lots of Republican criticism. That was eventually, she actually pulled out of that.
So it's normal to have this happen, but the reality is you will likely hear the president and the folks around him say, look, you can also do more than, you know, one thing at a time. Remember during the campaign that was the criticism he leveled against Senator John McCain when he wanted to shut down his campaign to deal with the whole --
SANCHEZ: You just heard General Honore come on the show saying the president needs to start considering using the Stafford Act where the government gets to come in and deal with this as a disaster and do everything that comes with that, including perhaps using military resources if he needs to.
Why not, has this been done? Why hasn't this been done at this point?
MARTIN: Actually, Robert Gibbs, the press secretary, previously said that it would not be used because it wasn't the right tool. You see the head of the Coast Guard come out in the briefing room to say that BP, they are better equipped to handle these type of situations in the federal government.
What this really speaks to, though, from a political standpoint is that is how much oversight is being applied to the issue. This is now been going on some 36, 37 days. And so people are praying. I was reading Donna Brazile's tweet earlier -- they're praying that this topsoil or this particular --
SANCHEZ: Top kill.
MARTIN: Top kill, I'm sorry.
SANCHEZ: That's all right.
MARTIN: -- actually works. They're praying it actually works. The question is, if it doesn't work, then what's next?
So it gives the impression that the government, frankly, isn't on top of it. And when you have these kind of disasters, you have got to give the impression to the American people you're on it, that you're fully engaged, 24/7.
And some folks, even some Democrats believe the administration missed the boat in the early stages to recognize how significant this is. I'll tell you this right now, also, if I'm the administration, I can guarantee you I've given daily updates to James Carville, Mary Matalin, Donna Brazile, Cokie Roberts, all of these folks from Louisiana who are on the air.
Let me tell you something, President George W. Bush, people don't realize this, they were very -- they understood media voices, and they kept Donna, James and others who were on television, who have platforms, involved. They had seats at the table.
They were very involved in the conversation in terms of, here's what we're doing, here's what's going on, because you cannot have these kind of voices coming after you, because, when they do...
SANCHEZ: And there goes the satellite.
We had a feeling that he was going beyond his satellite time, and he did.
Roland Martin, we thank him for joining us, and we will try and touch base with him a little bit later, talking about the political impact of this story, which seems to be growing day by day.
