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President Obama Speaks From Louisiana Coast; BP Continues Attempts to Plug Leak in Gulf; Administration Faces Criticism Over Perceived Lack of Leadership in Gulf Crisis
Aired May 28, 2010 - 14:56 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: We have been talking to our reporters -- and here is the president. We have been waiting to hear the update. He is stepping to the podium. Let's go ahead and listen in to President Obama.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good afternoon, everybody. I know it's a little warm out here, so want to get started.
I've just had a meeting with these governors, members of Congress, local officials, as well as Admiral Thad Allen, the national incident commander in charge of response efforts to the BP oil spill. Admiral Allen gave us an update of the latest information on both the efforts to plug the well as well as giving us an update on arrangements and coordination that's being made with respect to mitigating this damage that's been done.
He updated us on these latest efforts to stop the leak, mitigate the damage to the great beaches of the Gulf Coast, and I had the chance to visit with Charlotte, the -- a beach like Port Buchon, that gives you a sense of what extraordinary efforts are being made at the local level, but also the damage that we're already starting to see as a consequence of this spill.
Now, our mission remains the same as it has since this disaster began, since the day I visited Louisiana nearly four weeks ago. We want to stop the leak, we want to contain and clean up the oil, and we want to help the people of this region return to their lives and their livelihoods as soon as possible. And our response treats this event for what it is, it's an assault on our shores, on our people, on the regional economy, and on communities like this one.
This isn't just a mess that we've got to mop up. People are watching their livelihoods wash up on the beach, parents are worried about the implications for their children's health, every resident of this community has watched this nightmare threaten the dreams they have worked so hard to build, and they want it made right, and they want to make it right now.
I just had a chance to listen to Mayor David Camardelle of Grand Isle, our host here, telling us heartbreaking stories about a fisherman who are trying to figure out, you know, where the next paycheck is going to come from, how are they going to pay a mortgage or a note on their boat. And he is having to dig into his pocket at this point to ensure that some of them are able to deal with the economic impact.
So this is something that has to be dealt with immediately, not sometime later. And that's everybody's drive and focus, everybody who is standing behind me. This is our highest priority, and it deserves a response that is equal to the task. That's why this has already been the largest clean-up effort in U.S. history.
On the day this disaster began, even as we launched a search and rescue effort for the searchers on the drilling rig, we were already staging equipment in the event of a larger scale spill.
By the time we discovered the third breach, a week after the Deepwater Horizon platform sank, we already stationed more than 70 vessels and hundreds of thousands of feet of protective boom onsite.
Today, there are more than 20,000 people in the region working around the clock to contain and clean up this spill. We have activated about 1,400 members of the National Guard across four states. Nearly 1,400 vessels are aiding in the containment and cleanup effort. And we have deployed more than three million feet of hard and absorbent boom, including an additional 100,000 just yesterday for these parishes in Louisiana that face the greatest threat.
Now, I have made clear to Admiral Allen, and I did so again today, that he should get whatever he needs to deal with this crisis. Whatever he needs, he will get. Right now, we're still within the window where we don't yet know the outcome of the highly complex top kill procedure that the federal government authorized BP to use to try to stop the leak.
If it is successful, it would obviously be welcome news. If it's not, a team of some of the world's top scientists, engineers and experts, led by our energy secretary and Nobel Prize-winning physicist, Steven Chu, has for some time being -- has for some time been exploring any and all reasonable contingency plans.
But our response will continue with its full force, regardless of the outcome of the top kill approach, because, even if the leak was stopped today, it wouldn't change the fact that these waters still contain oil from what is now the largest spill in American history, and more of it will come ashore.
To ensure that we're fully prepared for that, and in accordance with input from folks down here, I have directed Secretary Napolitano and Admiral Allen to triple the manpower in places where oil has hit the shore or is within 24 hours of impact.
This increase will allow us to further intensify this already historic response, contain and remove oil more quickly, and help minimize the time that any oil comes into contact with our coastline. That means deploying more boom, cleaning more beaches, performing more monitoring of wildlife and impact to this ecosystem.
We're also going to continue to do whatever it takes to help Americans whose livelihoods have been upended by this spill. Gulf Coast residents should know that we have gathered all pertinent information regarding available regarding assistance and the federal response in one place at WhiteHouse.gov.
We have ordered BP to pay economic injury claims, and we will make sure they deliver. And the parish presidents and governors here in Louisiana were already given some sense of some of the bureaucratic problems that we're going to have to cut through. But we are going to cut through them.
And for those who are in economic distress, if you have already filed a claim, and you're not satisfied with the resolution, then WhiteHouse.gov will point you in the right direction. As I said yesterday, the Small Business Administration has stepped in to help businesses by approving loans, but, also as important, allowing many to defer existing loan payments.
A lot of folks are still loaded up with loans that they had from Katrina and other natural disasters down here. So, they may need some additional help. If you're small business owner and you weren't aware of some of the programs that have been put in place or haven't participated, then, again, the White House Web site will connect you to the resources you need.
And we are making sure that all the parish presidents know and folks like the mayor, other local officials, are going to be aware of how they can get immediate help from us.
What's more, we have stationed doctors and scientists across the five Gulf states to look out for people's health and then to monitor any ill effects felt by cleanup workers and local residents.
And we have begun setting up a system to track these efforts -- excuse me -- to track these effects and ensure folks get the care that they need. And we have told BP that we expect them to pay for that, too.
As I have said before, BP is the responsible party for this disaster. What that means is, they're legally responsible for stopping the leak and they're financially responsible for the enormous damage that they have created.
And we're going to hold them accountable, along with any other party responsible for the initial explosion and loss of life on that platform. But, as I said yesterday, and as I repeated in the meeting that we just left, I ultimately take responsibility for solving this crisis. I'm the president. And the buck stops with me.
So, I give the people of this community and the entire Gulf my word that we're going to hold ourselves accountable to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to stop this catastrophe, to defend our natural resources, to repair the damage, and to keep this region on its feet.
Justice will be done for those whose lives have been upended by this disaster, for the families of those whose lives have been lost. That is a solemn pledge that I am making. I think I can speak for anybody here and for anybody who's been involved in the response and the cleanup effort and for most Americans when I say that I would gladly do whatever it takes to end this disaster today.
But I want to also repeat something that I said to the group as a whole while we were meeting. This is a manmade catastrophe that's still evolving, and we face a long-term recovery and restoration effort. America has never experienced an event like this before, and that means that as we respond to it, not every judgment we make is going to be right the first time out. Sometimes there are going to be disagreements between experts or between federal and state and local officials, or among state officials, or between states, about what the most effective measures will be.
Sometimes there are going to be risks and unintended consequences associated with a particular mitigation strategy that we consider. In other words, there are going to be a lot of judgment calls involved here. There are not going to be silver bullets or a lot of perfect answers for some of the challenges that we face.
Understandably, the feelings of frustration and anger, the sense that any response is inadequate, we expect that frustration and anger to continue until we actually solve this problem.
But in the meantime we've got to make sure that everybody is working in concert, that everybody is moving in the same direction.
And I want everybody to know that everybody here at every level is working night and day to end this crisis. We're considering every single idea out there, especially from folks who know these communities best.
Admiral Allen announced yesterday, for example, that after a bunch of back and forth between state and federal experts, he is prepared to authorize moving forward with a portion of the idea for a barrier island that may stop some of the oil from coming ashore. We had an extensive conversation about this, and to see whether additional steps can be taken on this barrier island idea.
And what I told the parish president, what I told the governor, is that if there is an idea that can be shown to work, then we should move forward on it, and they deserve quick answers.
But I also reminded everybody that we've got to make sure that whatever we do is actually going to work, particularly because we're going to have not unlimited resources, at least not right now. For example, there's a limited amount of boom. We're going to try to get more boom manufactured, but that may take some time, and that means we're going to have to make some decisions about how to deploy it effectively.
The bottom line is this. Every decision we make is based on a single criteria: What's going to best protect and make whole the people and the ecosystems of the gulf. And I want to thank everybody in this region who's rolled up their sleeves and pitched in to help, from the National Guard putting their experience to the task, to the local officials and every citizen who loves this area and calls it home, every American who's traveled to the region to lend a hand.
If every -- if any American is looking for ways to volunteer and help, then we've put links to that information on our Web site, as well. That's WhiteHouse.gov.
And all these governors, Bobby Jindal, as well as Charlie Crist and Bob Riley, they want -- and I know Haley Barbour's not here, but I think he agrees with this, as well -- one of the most powerful ways that you can help the gulf right now is to visit the communities and the beaches off of the coast. Except for three beaches here in Louisiana, all of the gulf's beaches at this moment are open, they are safe, and they are clean.
And so that's always a good way to help, is to come down and provide support to the communities along the coasts.
To the people of the Gulf Coast, I know that you've weathered your fair share of trials and tragedy.
I know there have been times where you've wondered if you're being asked to face them alone.
I'm here to tell you that you're not alone. You will not be abandoned. You will not be left behind.
The cameras at some point may leave. The media may get tired of the story. But we will not. We are on your side, and we will see this through.
We're going to keep at this every day until the leak is stopped, until this coastline is clean, and your communities are made whole again. That's my promise to you. And that is a promise on behalf of a nation. It is one that we will keep.
And I will make one last point, and I said this to every leader who is here: If something is not going right down here, then they need to talk to Thad Allen.
And if they're not getting satisfaction from Thad Allen, then they can talk to me.
There is nobody here who can't get in touch with me directly if there is an idea, a suggestion or a logjam that needs to be dealt with.
So we're in this together. And it's going to be a difficult time. And, obviously, the folks down here are going to be feeling the brunt of it.
But we're going to make sure that we're doing everything we can to get this solved as quickly as possible. And I want to again thank everybody here for the extraordinary work that they're putting in.
You shouldn't underestimate how hard these folks are working day in and day out on behalf of their constituencies. So thank you very much.
Thank you, everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. President.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. President.
(APPLAUSE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: The president of the United States surrounded by some Louisiana officials, as well as some of the governors of the Gulf Coast, dealing with what has become a very difficult political situation for him vis-a-vis the situation in the Gulf, which BP seems to be losing credibility on day by day, if not hour by hour.
We're going to be taking you through that in just a moment.
But, first, I want to bring in Candy Crowley. She has been following the president on his tour of Louisiana today.
How big a problem, Candy, is this Gulf Coast crisis becoming for this president?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it has the potential to become a bigger problem. At the moment, we know that he has taken some hits in the polls. A majority of Americans disapprove of the way he has handled it so far.
It's why you saw the news conference yesterday saying: I'm in charge. I wake up in the morning, I care about it. I go to bed at night, I care about it. My daughter asks me about it.
It's why you see him down here talking about the hardships that people in the Gulf are going through, once again, saying: I'm on it, and you can -- all these governors can call me.
So, he has taken a hit. They know that. That's in part why he's doing this. Also, there is nothing quite like being there to kind of see what you are up against. I think it is interesting that, so far anyway, on this trip, we have not seen him talking to some of the, you know, what we like to call in the news business real people. He was surrounded by politicians here.
But we haven't seen him with some of those people that we have seen on your show and on others saying: I have lost my business. We're losing our way of life. I haven't seen a check.
That sort of thing, I think it's interesting that we have not seen that from the president. Perhaps he has done that, and we don't know about it, or perhaps he's about to.
SANCHEZ: You know what's really difficult for this president, it seems? As the facts come in, they seem confusing, and it doesn't seem to me, Candy -- and I understand Anderson Cooper is joining us now as well. He's down in the Louisiana -- I believe he's in St. Bernard Parish, as a matter of fact.
Let me make this point to both of you.
And, Anderson, I would like to get your reaction on this, because I bet you this is being followed very closely down there in the Gulf. We have a president of the United States who yesterday told the American people he was in charge. And in the next breath, he said that he didn't know that the MMS director had been fired, if she had been fired, essentially telling the American people he really wasn't in the loop in that decision.
So, on the one hand, he's telling us he's completely in charge, has been from the beginning. On the other hand, he's telling us he's not in the loop at knowing that the person responsible for the biggest agency following this entire thing may or may not have been fired, may or may not have been -- quit.
Today, we're learning that Thad Allen, the admiral, the commandant who is responsible for these thing, Anderson, yesterday, he was saying that the operation was going sometime around 1:30 in the afternoon, when we have now learned that BP is saying it had been stopped.
It gets to the point where people are starting to wonder whether the people who say they're in charge really are in charge.
Is that being questioned as well down there in the Gulf? What are you hearing, Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, you hear that a lot from people. There's no doubt about it.
I mean, the fact that BP had shut down pushing the mud into the valve for 16 hours, and Thad Allen apparently didn't know about it, you know, some 14 hours into it was pretty stunning, that they allowed him to give a press conference in which he said the effort is continuing, the mud is being pushed down, when, in fact, it wasn't, and hadn't been for many, many hours, is -- you know, is kind of emblematic of the kind of question a lot of people ask here of who really is in charge.
That being said, look, I think people will be pleased that the president did make an effort to come down here today and meet with parish presidents and the governor as well.
But there's a lot of -- you know, there's going to be a lot of disappointment as well. I think what (AUDIO GAP) really hoping that the president would at least maybe meet with some fishermen, if not go out to the very marshes where you really do see the oil that's already started to kill off some of these marshes. I think there's going to be a sense of the criticism that the president didn't spend enough time, that he didn't meet with local people who are really affected, and that he still seemed kind of, you know, cerebral and disconnected from it, you know, whether that's fair or not.
Look, he was in meetings for several hours, you know, going over detailed organizational things, which does matter. You know, there's been a big criticism from parish presidents that had the Coast Guard, that (AUDIO GAP) has been too centralized, that the officials down at the local level don't have decision-making authority and haven't been able to actually deploy boom and get decisions made in a timely manner.
Thad Allen clearly got that message yesterday. He said he's changing his command and control structure to kind of flatten it out. And I suspect there was a lot of talk among -- among parish presidents to the president of the United States on that today.
SANCHEZ: You know, it does seem -- and, Anderson, it's funny. You use the word disconnected. And I think you really captured it.
As an old journalism professor use to say, W.C., Mr. Sanchez, or Mr. Anderson, in this case. I think that's the word that may have been missing.
You know, look, Candy Crowley, say what you want about President Bush. When he went to 9/11 and he took that bullhorn and he started screaming and putting his arm around those firefighters, it was a seminal moment in everything that happened post-9/11. It was a message, per se, to the American people.
And Anderson is right. It may be more important for the president to be in staffing meetings and briefings and getting the X's and O's down. But is it not, for presidents, for all leaders, in fact, equally important to have that moment of gravitas, that moment when people can look at you and say, you know what, by golly, looks like that guy is in charge?
CROWLEY: Well, you have to have one of two things here. You cannot at the same time seem a little disconnected. Look, this is this president's personality. He really -- it's not that he doesn't feel things. It's just that he's not an emoter, in the way that Ronald Reagan was, in the way that Jimmy Carter as, in the way that George W. Bush was or Bill Clinton. It's just not who he is.
Having said that, you need to have a little bit of that as president. But you certainly have to have it if people are down there screaming about how they're not getting what they need to be getting. So, you have both this feeling of incompetence, as well as someone that seems disconnected.
And I'm not really big on I want the president to pretend something so that people feel better. But the fact of the matter is that you're building on a feeling down in the Gulf region that is reaching out throughout America that the right things are not being done.
He's claimed responsibility. He owns it. Now he has to make sure it works. And, right now, it doesn't seem to be. And so you add that on to the, boy, he seems disconnected, and it's a problem for him.
SANCHEZ: Well, yes, yes. And, unfortunately, the worse it gets as far as the -- this top kill operation goes, it becomes a bigger and bigger problem for him.
Anderson, I know you're busy. You have got a lot of reporting to do and I don't want to keep from you that. But let me just ask you one thing you didn't address when we were talking just a little while ago. You gave a real good sense of what the people are thinking there about the White House and the administration.
What is the thinking about BP down there? Because I know there are thousands of BP employees, as they said in their ad in "The New York Times" today, who work in that region. How is BP being seen today by the folks down there you talk to?
COOPER: Well, you know, certainly, look, there's a big distinction I think in most people's minds here between the BP people who they know who live in their communities -- and, you know, a lot of folks work for BP down here and want this company to, you know, do well, and, you know, need the business and need the money.
But I think there's a lot of criticism, certainly at the leadership of BP, of the way that they have handled this, both handled it logistically, actually, you know, responding to the leak itself, especially responding to the cleanup.
I think people are less critical of -- most people understand, look, this is way down deep in the water. It's incredibly technically difficult. But they make a distinction between that operation going on, and what we were seeing, the operations on the shores, in the marshes, where in some places we have seen oil sitting now for more than a week, and booms not being collected. And there are not enough booms.
So, there is criticism of the cleanup effort that BP is making on the shore, distinct from the operation that this -- this top kill operation that's going on, and, also, beyond the logistics of it, just the way that BP has handled this in terms of public relations, in terms of transparency, in terms of talking to people and informing people.
I mean, the fact that, for 16 hours, they had stopped this top kill operation, and didn't, you know, feel it was necessary to tell anybody about it, is indicative to a lot of people -- you know, a lot of people just shook their heads when they heard that and just said, you know, I can't believe it. But, unfortunately, they could believe it, given what they have seen over the last month or so.
SANCHEZ: You have just so nailed it on the head, man. I think what you just mentioned about those 16 hours, I think that's going to live in the news cycle for much beyond the next 16 hours.
Anderson Cooper, Candy Crowley, two of our best, my thanks to both of you.
Anderson, I will be looking forward to your reports throughout the day, and certainly I will be tuned in with the rest of Americans tonight around 10:00 p.
Thank you to you.
Thank you, Candy, as well.
By the way, the pictures you were just watching, put those back up, if you can, Rog. Let's go back to those shots. Once again, we have got a live signal coming in of what it looks like under the ocean floor. And we have got some mechanical engineers who are going to be joining me in just a moment to tell us exactly what's going on, because, look -- and I think Anderson hit it on the head -- what is going on? Is it still going? Are they pushing mud down, or are they not pushing mud down?
And now what's the new deadline? When will we possibly see the culmination of top kill, if at all? We're coming right back. This is your LIST. This is RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back, everyone. I'm Rick Sanchez. We are in New York today.
Now let's drill down on what Anderson Cooper just mentioned to you moments ago, that 16-hour lapse that he and I mentioned that could become a real problem for the administration, as well as for the folks who are drilling down there.
We're learning more today, as a matter of fact, that top kill was essentially killed for 16 hours. Pardon the pun, but it seems to be very true. That's how long they stopped pumping the mud into that oil leak to try and get it to stop, 16 hours.
Now, here's what's important. Did BP tell us that they had stopped? No, they didn't. Did the president know? Not sure. How about Thad Allen, the incident commander, the guy who is in charge of this entire operation? Did he know? It appears that he did not know either.
The mud pumping began Wednesday, remember, Wednesday during our newscast just before we went on the air at 2:00. We said, an our ago, it started. It was around midnight that same day they stopped. They just cut. They stopped pushing the mud down into that hole, but they didn't tell anyone. They didn't tell anybody.
So, yesterday, when I was on the air reporting that it was going well -- did you watch yesterday when we were on the air from 3:00 to 4:00? A lot of folks were watching. We got a lot of comments and a lot of response. And we all had our fingers crossed and we were waiting for news.
I was wrong. I was giving you bad information. I was. And, by the way, so was everybody else in the media, name your newspaper, name your name your television or radio station. Why? Because we were being told it was still -- quote -- "going with some success," the pushing down the mud into the hole.
It wasn't true. In fact, even the commandant said, Thad Allen, on our air -- listen. I got the quote. I have got the sound bite here. I want to let you hear it. This is him yesterday at 1:30 in the afternoon, when we knew now or we know now that top kill had been at least stopped, temporarily, but stopped nonetheless, while he's telling us, no, it's still going. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADMIRAL THAD ALLEN, U.S. COAST GUARD COMMANDANT: They're still pumping mud into the wellbore, and they're still monitoring the situation. I want to be perfectly clear here. They're pumping mud into the wellbore. And as long as the mud is going down, the hydrocarbons are not coming up. They're still in the process of doing that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Did you hear that? I want everybody to know they're pumping mud into the -- no, they weren't. They weren't, according to what they're now saying.
The White House officials, we have reached out to them today. They're telling CNN that people inside the White House knew about the temporary halt, though it wasn't clear if the president was aware. That's correct. The president, the guy who had a news conference yesterday about that time scheduled, who was telling all Americans that he was in complete control of the situation, may not have been told that the drilling, the pushing down of the mud to create that equilibrium that we had been telling you about had been stopped.
Even though he was about to face reporters live on television, he may not have been told. The White House says that, while the president is kept abreast of what is going on, they don't tell him -- they don't tell him every single detail of what happens, like the fact that mud isn't being pumped anymore in an operation where they're going to try and stop a leak that every single person in America is interested in?
They wouldn't tell him that? So, why was that part of the operation -- why was that part of the operation halted to begin with? BP says, well, the problem was that too much mud was escaping back out.
All right. Let's look at this picture now once again, and let's go through this once again, maybe a little more cautiously this time.
Joining me now by phone is Eric Smith. He serves as consultant to the Tulane Energy Center. So, he understands these types of operations like top kill, the one that's going on now.
Thank you, Mr. Smith, for being with us, sir. We appreciate your time.
ERIC SMITH, TULANE ENERGY CENTER (via telephone): Happy to be here.
SANCHEZ: Look, as I understand it, and as this has been explained to me, this idea is, put constant pressure down on the pressure that is coming up from the oil and gas, so that eventually you reach equilibrium and you're able to cap it.
That sounds to me like something you don't just stop and then pick it up again 16 hours later. Isn't the reasonable conclusion here -- and, look, I'm not a mathematician, a scientist or an oil-drilling expert. But just from that explanation, isn't the reasonable conclusion here that, when you stop for 16 hours, when you start again, you're essentially starting all over again?
SMITH: Well, I don't really think you're starting all over again. First of all, there's going to be a fair amount of mud that stays in the in the wellbore. Remember that from the surface of the sea to the bottom of this well is 18,000 feet, three-and-a-half miles or so.
And there is the this constant loss of mud through the old damaged drilling riser, which is what you see on your screen at the moment. When they stop pumping, they're -- they're leaving the residual weight of mud in the wellbore that they have pumped. (CROSSTALK)
SMITH: And I heard they had pumped like 15,000 barrels of mud. So -- but what I think you have got is a very cautious group of people watching the pressure that's being exerted by that mud, because, if you go too high with the mud pressure -- and you can easily do that -- you can exert up to 15,000 pounds per square inch with this mud at the bottom of the well.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: If it gets too high, you end up rupturing the -- the casing pipe, particularly closer up to the BOP stack, which would not be a good thing to have happen. So, I think --
SANCHEZ: So, you're -- so -- so -- yes, what you just said -- that is interesting. And as I had never heard anyone else say this before. What you just said is that they're kind of in a catch-22, because if they keep pumping, there is a chance that they could reach that equilibrium, and then they would be able to put in the cement, cap it, and hallelujah, we're all done with this.
But if they put too much pressure in there, they would rupture it, thereby -- and I will finish the sentence for you -- you tell me if I'm correct -- creating a bigger and potentially more forceful leak. SMITH: Well, it would certainly start leaking through the casing, and be somewhat like Santa Barbara, where you had oil coming up through the soil and -- subsea soil.
And, obviously, that's -- it's easier to control a single flow stream than it would be to have multiple flow streams coming up around the wellbore that aren't traveling through the BOP stack.
SANCHEZ: We have got to sneak a break in, but, when we come back, I would like to ask you about what the timetable for this is now, because we were all going on the assumption starting Wednesday at 2:00 in the afternoon -- it's now Friday 3:00 in the afternoon, Eastern time -- that this thing, we would have a pretty good indication within 10 hours after it started -- 24 hours, we would know if it was working. After two days, we probably would have a pretty good idea if it had worked all together. Now it looks like the whole thing is kind of upside down.
When we come back from this break, I would like you, sir, to give us your best scientific guess as to where this thing might end up as we now move into the weekend. This is RICK'S LIST, your list, your national conversation. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Many of you have been wanting to know what's actually going on out there in the Gulf, miles and miles off the shores right now. OK, that's the underwater view. You see all the leak? That's about 5,000 feet below the surface, right?
Well, we're about to bring you some shots from the surface itself by a helicopter that just flew over that area. I'm told by our producers in Atlanta that we've just gotten this video, and we're going to be sharing it with you momentarily. As soon as we get it in, I'll be turning that around for you.
In the meantime, let me bring in our expert again, Eric Smith from Tulane University, who is bringing us up to date on what the situation is there 5,000 feet below the surface of the Gulf.
The question to you again is the timing on this, because Wednesday when they started at 2:00, we were told within ten hours we would have an idea of what was going on, by 24, a better idea, and possibly by 48 hours, two days to three days later this thing could be done. We would have it capped.
Now that they have stopped for 16 hours, what's your best estimate on where we are along this timetable, sir?
SMITH: Well, I think, basically, what they're doing is letting things settle down and re-measuring some of the pressures to see on how they're doing of overcoming the reservoir pressure. They'll start up again. They have plenty of drilling mud, they have plenty of pumping capacity. And what I think they're doing is making sure that they're actually improving the situation. The more mud they add, they don't more mud coming out the top, which is problematic. So it could still be 24 do 36 hours before they have a clear idea of where they stand.
And there may be another stop along the way. I don't think this will be the -- you know, this smooth track of we put the mud in and then the cement on top of it.
SANCHEZ: Yes, well-said. I'm glad you gave that explanation. So we could still be days into this thing.
Do you know what I still don't quite understand, professor? If you could explain to me, once again -- and I don't know, maybe it's me. I'm interested in what folks at home are thinking, as well. I'm just thinking, because this has been explained to me almost like a water hose that's shooting out of the bottom of the ground or the bottom of the ocean, the bottom of the Gulf, in this case.
How is it that you can -- I still don't get how you can stop and doesn't -- won't -- because there is so much pressure being exerted from the bottom of the ocean up, how is the stuff that you pushed down there going to stay down there? Won't it push it right back up again, eventually being back at square one?
I don't understand how the mud can stay down there, which is what you said at the beginning.
SMITH: Well, think about this in terms we all can handle. Assume you've got a milk shake, and you suck on the milk shake, and you get the milk up through the straw to your mouth. What you're doing there is you have higher pressure outside than you do inside.
Now turn it around. And as we were all kids once, you blow on the straw. What happens? The milk declines and goes back into the glass because the pressure outside is less than the pressure inside.
And the secret here is that you pump hard enough so that you have got a plug flow in the well bore so that it doesn't just sort of slowly mix with the oil, and, you know, dissipate itself. It acts almost like a plunger, and pushes the oil back down into the formation.
SANCHEZ: Oh, interesting. I see. So it is almost creating that plunger effect already.
SMITH: Right.
SANCHEZ: By way, one more thing. There have been conflicting reports today as to whether or not they're still pumping mud or not. I know the Associated Press, moments ago, I read a release that said, yes, they're pumping the mud back in. There was another report saying, well, top kill is going on, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're pumping mud.
What's your best guess at this point, or can you tell us? Can you make some news here and say, yes, they're definitively right now at 3:36 eastern time in the afternoon pumping mud into that leak in the Gulf of Mexico.
SMITH: I don't know about how definitively, but judging if the picture from the oceaneering ROV is correct, it looks like they're getting a fair amount of positive pressure forcing mud into the water. So I would think they were pumping as we speak.
SANCHEZ: Interesting. So you can look at that picture that our viewers are looking at on the left. And as you look at that picture, you would make an intelligent guess, or a very informed and knowledgeable guess, that, yes, they are pumping.
Tell us why. Tell us what it is about that picture that makes you --
SMITH: Well, remember, what you're looking at is the bent over, broken drilling riser from the original vessel. And it's got cracks in it. And if all that was going on, in other words, they weren't pumping, you might see a white plume coming off the top. But what that looks like there is a fairly significant positive pressure.
And remember, it's pumping against about 2,300 pounds per square inch that is just the water pressure at that point. The mud coming down from the surface, by the time you get that column 5,000 feet tall, it's exerting about 5,000 psi. And then if you have got the pumps running, you know, you could be easily up to 10,000 or 15,000 psi.
SANCHEZ: By way, we're about to see a picture that we haven't seen before. And that -- professor, I told you I was going to let you go, but I need you -- that we were going to go to a break, but we're not, because we're getting some brand-new pictures into CNN right now.
These are helicopter videos that we haven't seen before of the actual place where the operation is taking place. In other words -- here, let me put it to you this way. What we were just seeing 5,000 feet below surface, folks, that are watching us, we are now seeing exactly what's above that.
And I'm told that we're going to see, I suppose -- I suppose that we're going to be seeing -- OK. Here we go. Professor, do you have a monitor in front of you?
SMITH: Yes, I'm looking at a big flat screen, so --
SANCHEZ: OK. What is this? Tell our viewers what we're looking at.
SMITH: Well, the tall thing so the right is the vessel that's drilling the relief well. The tall thing in the middle is the Q4000, which is the location where the mud is entering the well. And then the boats around it are the pumping vessels that are supplying the horsepower to push the mud as well as supply the mud down the riser from the Q4000. SANCHEZ: So that one -- and I misspoke, by the way. I assumed this was a helicopter, but judging from this window, that's not a helicopter, that's a plane, right, guys? It looks like it's being taken by a plane, because this is pretty far out there, right? We're not talking about something that's just off shore. How many miles is this off --
SMITH: It's 41 miles off the final pass -- final land in Louisiana down in Plaquemines Parrish.
SANCHEZ: And it looks like a rig on the left, right?
SMITH: There are two drilling rigs. Remember, they're drilling two relief wells in case they have a problem with one of them. Each of those are costing about $100 million apiece.
SANCHEZ: So they're putting two relief wells in now, and that's what the rig looks like, right on the corner. Man, folks, this is unedited video, we're seeing it for the very first time as you're seeing it. So bear with us here. It's not like we control the images. We get a glimpse of things and then move on.
SMITH: I think, Rick, they're shooting out of the back end of a C-130, is my guess, a military transport.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it did look like there was a platform there at the bottom when the lens opened up for just a moment. There is a little bottom right, right?
SMITH: Yes, that's one of the drilling rigs. The drill ship will be the biggest thing you see, and it is ship-shape. It's not square. And that's the one that is the -- you know, was used to collect the mud when -- I mean, collect the oil when they were, you know, connecting with the insertion tube.
SANCHEZ: And where's the mud coming from?
SMITH: The mud is on board a large vessel called a center liner. And it should be in the gathering right near one of the pumping vessels.
SANCHEZ: So it's in one of those vessels that we see right there?
SMITH: One of three or four that are scattered around the Q4000.
SANCHEZ: There we go, it's tighter now.
Well, Chad, I hope -- I know you're in Atlanta, you're not with me here as we usually do this, because I'm up in New York today. There's another drill, by the way. Chad is taking notes on this, and he is going to be able to tell straight for us in a little while.
SMITH: That big vessel with the crane moving right now is the drill ship. That's the one that -- if we can get, you know, if we have to abandon the top kill and switch over to trying a lower top hat over the sawed off end of the old drilling risers, that's the vessel that will be doing it.
SANCHEZ: Boy, I'll tell you, when you mention top kill and junk shot and top hat and all those different things, you know, I've got to tell you -- we lost the picture. It gets frustrating, because I was reading recently that in the spill in 1979 a lot of these very same things were tried, and none seemed to work, and that wasn't even as deep as this was. And I know technology has changed, and I hope it has --
SMITH: Well, that one was also six times as big as this one when we first started with our numbers.
SANCHEZ: But it lasted -- and here's news. Here's the scary part of that. That thing went for, what, eight, nine months?
SMITH: Eight or nine months, that's exactly right. Not at the full rate. They gradually got the rate down after drilling a couple of relief wells and doing junk shots and all the rest of the stuff. They even had a containment vessel.
SANCHEZ: That's incredible. Professor, thanks so much. We'll be right back, folks, as we continue to get more video on this we'll take you through it as explanatorily as we possibly can with some experts that help us along.
This is your national conversation. I'm Rick Sanchez. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I want to switch gears for just a moment and talk about the politics of what's going on in our country, as well, because there's something we need to catch you up on. It's on our follow-up file, of sorts.
If you were watching last week, you may have heard my interview can Congressman Joe Sestak. That pretty much went viral. And you'll remember that I asked him if he had gotten a job offer from the White House to try and keep him out of that Senate race in Pennsylvania, the race against Arlen Specter that he, Sestak, ended up winning.
OK. Remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Did the president of the United States, did the White House, approach you and offer you the secretary of the Navy position?
REP. JOE SESTAK, (D) PENNSYLVANIA SENATOR: I was asked the question about two months ago about something that happened last July. No one had ever asked me the question did someone offer you something to get out? I answer it had honestly yes. And then I said stop, I'm not going to get into what was a deal offer, because I'm not going to get out for a deal. I'll only get out for something that was right to do. And here's what I believe -- this kind of deal-making in Washington is kind of what soured Americans, and quite frankly, soured me.
SANCHEZ: But congressman -- look, you know I appreciate you being here, and you know that I love having you on my show. But I just asked you a very direct question. Give me a direct answer. Did the president, did the White House offer you the secretary of the Navy gig?
SESTAK: And the answer is I've said I was offered something. I don't have to go beyond that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: He doesn't have to go beyond that, and he didn't. Today the White House has finally come clean. Here we go. It did offer Sestak a job as a matter of fact. And the information that we're getting is that not only did they offer him the job, quote, "We have concluded that allegations of improper conduct rest on factual errors, and lack a basis in the law."
This is what we have learned today from Robert Bauer. He is a White House counsel. And interestingly enough, that's the conclusion that he had.
And here's more of that quote. "At no time was Congressman Sestak offered, nor did he seek the position of secretary of the Navy."
Now, interesting -- now we get to the meat. Quote, "The White House chief of staff" -- listen to this. "The White House chief of staff," and that would be Rahm Emmanuel, "The White House chief of staff enlisted the support of former President Clinton, who agreed to raise with Sestak options of service on a presidential or other senior executive branch advisory board.
Congressman Sestak declined the suggested alternatives, remaining committed to his Senate candidacy."
So the White House enlists Bill Clinton, tells him to make the offer to Sestak, not Navy secretary, but something less. Sestak says no thanks. He enters the race against Specter, and he ends up winning the thing.
And now the White House is coming clean as of today, finally, saying it did nothing wrong, or illegal. And b, everyone knows it. Quote, "There have been numerous reported instances in the past when prior administrations, both Democratic and Republican, and motivated by the same goals, discussed alternative paths to service for qualified individuals also considering campaigns for public office.
Such discussions are fully consistent with the relevant law, and ethical requirements." That's where we get the, "hey, everyone is doing it, and everyone has done it in the past" excuse. Congressman Darryl Issa is one of several Congressional Republicans, however, who aren't buying this. He is asking, they're asking, the Justice Department to appoint a special counsel to investigate the matter independently. Here's what he is telling our Dana Bash.
BASH: The statute doesn't say that it's OK if other administrations have done it. And, of course, this president didn't say it was OK to be unethical if other administrations had done so, just the opposite. He has used the Bush administration as the symbol of what is bad, while saying he wouldn't do that.
This is an administration with a revolved door. They just fired the head of Mineral Management Service, someone who came back having been disgraced in the Clinton administration, and now they are justifying that these actions are OK because other people did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So this is our reporting on this story. This is where we stand today. You know as well as I do that we haven't heard the end of this story. In fact, Congressman Issa will join me next hour right here, and obviously just like you are, I'm sure I will be very interested to hear what he has to tell us. Meanwhile, there's this.
(VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Remember yesterday I told you the story of the Louisiana congressman who broke down while testifying about the oil spill in the Gulf? We called him this morning, and he said he'd come on and he's going to join us on the show in just a little bit.
And then Brooke Baldwin has new pictures from the Gulf. Our trending topic is next, and you know she follows the trends, so we'll join her in just a moment as well. Stay right there. "RICK'S LIST" continues after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: As we bring you back, I want to share some new information with you that we have been learning as we have been following this situation.
We have been trying to make contact with as many people as we possibly can who have been giving us information from the Gulf. Here's something we got a little while ago. This is one of the iReports we like to share with you from time to time. This is from Grand Isle. The woman is Eileen Romero.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Rick. Can you hear me? I'll take it.
SANCHEZ: Brooke Baldwin is standing by. Are you bringing us this?
BALDWIN: I will bring you this iReport. Here we go, I'll handle it.
You said it. Eileen Romero is from New Orleans. We brought you at the top of the hour -- remember we saw President Obama speaking from Grand Isle, this touristy island about a hundred miles south of New Orleans.
So she is giving us a nice glimpse of what we don't always see. She saw a bunch of these boats, fishermen are out of work, so they're placing some of the boom out and about. So this is sort of a fisherman's boat getting some of the booms laid out so hopefully they can keep some of the oil from hitting the barrier islands and affecting wildlife like the pelicans here.
Keep in mind it's nesting season, and what happens is some of the pelicans like to hang around these booms? Eileen having been there yesterday said she didn't actually see some of the oil in parts of the water, but you can see here obviously the oil is there.
She said some of the National Guardsmen and workers from BP out and about clearing out the beaches. But this picture was the most poignant for me. You see the picture. There are all these rental homes, apartments. "BP, we want our beach back." And way back here "Shame on you, BP."
This one, pelicans, oily pelicans perched on top of the oily booms. You can see them there, not so much working. And more and more people along the beach. She said she didn't realize the president would be at this exact location at Grand Isle. She sort of said it made sense that suddenly in the last 24, 48 hours people were out and about trying to make pretty pictures and cleaner beaches for the president.
SANCHEZ: People are hurting down there.
BALDWIN: They are.
SANCHEZ: And the funny thing is it's been incremental. At the very beginning you could see they were frustrated but they were all thinking there was a possibility this could come to a reasonable conclusion.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: The longer we push this reasonable conclusion ending back perhaps days, weeks -- who knows -- months, the more frustrated folks are going to get. And you're starting to see that, aren't you?
BALDWIN: Yes. When I was down there a couple weeks ago and we started to see the oil definitely not yet washing ashore, people were -- these are good, kind people down along the Gulf coast. It was more of a waiting game.
And now it's amazing. Over just the last couple of days you have heard the sound bites, as have I. They're angry and they have reason to be. SANCHEZ: That's what Anderson was telling us. I was going to say "Anger-son." Anderson was telling us a while ago filing the same report.
Hey, by the way, you and me, it's like out of sight, out of mind. I apologize at the very beginning there. I'm so used to seeing you next to me, and the fact that you're in Atlanta and I'm in New York threw me off.
BALDWIN: Whatever.
SANCHEZ: You're not mad at me.
BALDWIN: I'm hurt, deeply. Go ahead, Sanchez.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I apologize. We'll be right back. This is RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
