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Rick's List
Israel Under Fire For Raid on Aid Convoy; Oil Hits Alabama Beach; Hugo Chavez Grades President Obama; Al & Tipper Gore Separate; Fallout From Botched Raid
Aired June 01, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news coming into CNN right now. Attorney General Eric Holder has just completed a news conference. One of our correspondents, Scott Bronstein is standing by now with the news that he is going to be delivering to us about potential criminal proceedings against one, both, or all three of these companies in question, BP, Halliburton, and Transocean.
Scott, take it away. What have you learned? What did Eric Holder say?
SCOTT BRONSTEIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Rick. How you doing?
The attorney general just finished his press conference. He said that there is now sufficient evidence to begin a crystal -- a criminal investigation. And he said that the Department of Justice has in fact started a criminal investigation several weeks ago, and it's ongoing at this time.
He would not name names. He would not specifically say who is under investigation of those three companies or any other companies or even the government agencies possible --
SANCHEZ: So --
(CROSSTALK)
BRONSTEIN: -- the conflicts that could be therein.
SANCHEZ: Well, who is doing the investigating? I mean, how did he -- what will the process be for this?
BRONSTEIN: This be several divisions of the Department of Justice, he said. And the divisions will specifically be examining anyone who was prosecuting the law. He said that anyone who is found to have violated the law will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
SANCHEZ: Wow. Scott Bronstein, thank you so much.
And, as we continue here, we would like to welcome our troops that are watching us right now all over the country -- all over the world, I should say, on American Forces Network. Here is your national conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here is what is making your LIST on this day.
Violent protests around the world, as Israel deals with the fallout from the deadly raid on a ship carrying food and supplies to Gaza.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Shedding blood and massacring is an open and (INAUDIBLE) terror.
SANCHEZ: But while some world leaders line up against Israel, Israel releases video showing its soldiers were attacked and were defending themselves. We will break down the video and ask the questions you want asked.
Plan G is under way to use these robot subs to cut off the wellhead. Will it work? Or could it make the oil leak worse?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The flow rate increase could be anywhere from zero to 20.
SANCHEZ: You will see it live as it happens.
One of the terrorists who founded al Qaeda is taken out by the Obama administration. Are the drones turning the war on terror around?
The earth opens up and swallows an entire building. How does something like this even happen?
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's landed on the list you don't want to be on? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list.
Pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hour two. Here we go. Time to pick up the pace of today's LIST for those of you who are just now checking in.
No question, number one is this oil blob that we have just found out about. I don't know if you had a chance to hear it, but we broke the news moments ago with one of our correspondents that on Dauphin Island, Alabama -- that's D-A-U-P-H-I-N, by the way, not D-O-L-P-H-I-N as Miami Dolphins -- it's a little strip of land just off of Mobile -- there has now been recorded remnants of an oil spill.
And it seems by all indications that it's coming from that oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.
Chad Myers joining us now.
By the way, we're hoping to get these pictures any minute now. We were told by Patrick Oppmann, who is on the scene -- he took us through it. He says it's amazing. People are beaching themselves on the water -- on the beach. He says it's a beautiful beach.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Oh, right.
SANCHEZ: And -- and you see the oil all over the place, and people are still swimming in it. And he says, well, what do you say to your children? Why do you let your children swim? They say, well, I just told them not to open their mouth when they're in the water.
MYERS: I hope that was one person and not a whole lot of them, because that's -- that's just -- that's not good.
SANCHEZ: Well, tell us what the significance --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Tell us what the significance -- tell us where this is --
MYERS: Let me go --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: -- and break down the significance.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Go ahead.
MYERS: Exactly.
SANCHEZ: Go ahead. Take it away.
MYERS: Because you're not going to get an idea unless you kind of -- kind of figure this out.
Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, the oil spill is down here, Dauphin Island, that little -- tiny little spit of land right there, as you talked about. You come down through Mobile and down across the causeway and there you go, just a pristine little beach across -- you can take a ferry across over to the port as well.
But there you go. Now I will zoom in as far as I can on Google Earth, and I'm going to switch over to Bing Maps. Then it will start to break up here a little bit. We're going to back over now to where Bing Maps would be. You can do this at home as well.
This is what Dauphin Island looks like. You say, now, how come there are not houses over here? This -- shouldn't -- this is oceanfront property. How come there aren't -- because those houses got knocked down in Katrina or Ivan.
This island has been battered and battered over the years, but this is kind of what it looks like, not very wide, maybe three streets, most of the times, just one street wide. I have a family friend that owns that house next to the blue --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Really?
MYERS: -- right there.
Yes. This was never all that will far from the -- from the sound for a while, but, as the -- as the sand got blown over from hurricane after hurricane, it gets farther and farther to get to the water on the other side of the beach. Eventually, they will have oceanfront property in a couple years, after another -- hurricanes.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, it was expected.
MYERS: It's a beautiful, beautiful place. We expect this. This is exactly where we thought it would come onshore first.
It's the spit of land that sticks the farthest out into the Gulf of Mexico.
SANCHEZ: Huh.
MYERS: And they had tar balls a couple of weeks ago, the things you can pick up.
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: This doesn't sound like tar ball problems. This sounds like real liquid oil.
SANCHEZ: Well, Chad, just quickly, how -- how -- so then what is the significance of this? Given the fact that we have -- we have now seen it in parts of Louisiana, some parts of Mississippi, and now we're seeing it in Alabama, is -- is this the inevitable --
MYERS: It is.
SANCHEZ: -- that a lot of this spill will eventually make its way across the Gulf Coast?
MYERS: Absolutely. Absolutely.
For a while, this oil slick was doing the Watusi. We would get a wind out of the north and a wind out of the south, and it wouldn't go very far, and then east and then west, and it kind of stayed in the same spot. Now it's not staying in the same spot anymore.
The south prevailing wind in the summertime will drag all this oil up onto the shores, either Louisiana and Mississippi, Alabama and eventually Florida, and eventually all the way up the East Coast, as we always expected it would.
SANCHEZ: Oh. That's too bad, man. We will just have to wait and see. And hopefully they can get enough skimmers to pick it off before it gets there --
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: I want you to go and look to see what peat moss -- or -- yes -- will take it off. You can actually throw peat moss on these oil areas. The peat will absorb the oil only, not the water.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MYERS: And you can scoop it up a little bit better.
But, still, if you -- if you're out there in the water, make sure your kids are -- are -- are showered, cleaned up afterwards.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MYERS: Because this stuff is gross. This isn't just like -- like --
SANCHEZ: I know. I know.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But, at the same time, we don't -- we don't want to the totally screw up the tourism industry of these states and tell people not to go there. It's tough. It's tough.
It's a -- it's a -- it's a difficult story to tell for guys like you and I who spend a lot of time in those beaches.
MYERS: Love it.
SANCHEZ: All right, stay on top of this for us.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let us know what is going on.
Number two on our LIST: another potential confrontation at sea. We're going to be taking you through this. This is the Free Gaza Movement. It says that is sending more ships with aid for the Palestinians in Gaza. And we're all well aware Israelis have armed forces that have resorted to deadly force to block the last shipment.
Look, they're showing video now saying we only did it because we had to; we were under attack.
Former United States diplomat Edward Peck was part of the aid flotilla set up by a group called the Free Gaza Movement. And he's good enough to join us now.
Mr. Peck, what was a former United States diplomat doing on that flotilla?
EDWARD PECK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Well, I have been -- you know, I call myself a Middle East expert, OK? And I feel like I can do that because, unlike an awful lot of Americans, I know where it is. I have lived in it and worked on it for a long, long time.
And have I spent a great deal of time since retiring traveling out to that part of the world to all of the countries in region with other groups of people.
SANCHEZ: Were you -- were you -- were you on -- you weren't on the sixth ship, were you? Or were you?
PECK: No, we were -- we were on the small Greek passenger ship.
SANCHEZ: OK.
PECK: There were only, I think, 56 passengers on board, a very small boat. We weren't on the big one where -- where the troubles took place.
SANCHEZ: Well, were you anywhere near that ship? Because, if so, I would like to ask you some pretty direct questions about what's being said here.
PECK: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Were you, yes or no?
PECK: The answer to that question is no.
SANCHEZ: OK.
PECK: The ships stayed largely spread across the water because we were afraid something like that, the takedown might happen, and we wanted to make it harder, so the what -- whatever happened on the big Turkish ferryboat, I neither saw nor heard. I --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right, that's fair.
PECK: We were there on the --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That's why I asked you that question. I wouldn't want to ask you questions that you couldn't properly answer. I don't think that would be fair to our viewers.
So, let's move onto the next set of questions I need to ask you about. And that's the movement itself. Does this movement to bring humanitarian aid into Gaza, does it have any ties whatsoever to other organizations like, let's say, as has been presumed by some -- or accused, I should say -- al Qaeda, al Qaeda?
(CROSSTALK)
PECK: No. Are some of the people on it involved? That is possible. But the purpose of the movement was humanitarian. And it wasn't hostile. Everybody was unarmed. It was to help the people in Gaza fill -- meet some of the needs for maintaining lives in that desolate area, because of the Israeli embargo.
SANCHEZ: OK. Well, let me stop and ask you this then.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: If the Free Gaza Movement says that it is nonviolent --
PECK: Yes.
SANCHEZ: -- why are we seeing this video?
And, Roger, if you have it, let's show it while he answers this question.
The Israelis have put out some video today that does seem to show -- now, there may it be some edits on it. But, from what we can see, it does seem to show that some of their soldiers are being attacked here as soon as they got on there --
PECK: Well --
SANCHEZ: -- with -- with folks who are going after them with clubs and pipes, et cetera. We're about to see here even one soldier being thrown overboard.
That doesn't look like a -- like a nonviolent group of people on that ship.
PECK: Well, tell me, what -- what were the commandos coming in all armed for?
SANCHEZ: That's a great argument. That's a great question, sir. But, you know, I'm not here to answer questions for Israel. I'm here to ask the questions.
PECK: Well, I'm not here to ask questions for anybody, except that here come a bunch of guys fully armed coming down on ropes to capture the ship where you and your family are sailing.
Hey, you know, if -- if that isn't a hostile move on its own, I have a difficult time imagining, unless they happened to be firing while coming down the ropes. Here come these guys. They came on to our ship. It was much easier for them. They just stepped from their boat on to ours and they were there. They didn't have to rappel down.
But these chaps were not coming down to have tea or coffee. They were coming down to capture that ship with whatever was required to do it. And I gather that the people didn't really want that to happen.
SANCHEZ: Yes, but it's one thing to not want it to happen.
PECK: Yes.
SANCHEZ: It's another thing to take out pipes and start clubbing people as they're trying to do so. Now, I don't know exactly what happened. And there's a full investigation taking place. But --
PECK: I doubt that there will be a full investigation. But go ahead.
SANCHEZ: Why do you say you doubt it will be a full investigation?
PECK: Well, because those -- this is one of those things where, if you -- here -- here is this boat in international waters, far enough off the coast, sir, that, if this had taken place in Somalia, it would be called piracy.
SANCHEZ: Hmm.
PECK: OK.
And they were coming to stop people bent on a humanitarian effort which had taken a lot of effort. Look, the -- the concerns that were demonstrated by these people to take these risks to bring the non- military stuff -- I'm sure you have seen a list of what they -- we were taking.
SANCHEZ: Right.
PECK: Poses no threat to Israel whatsoever. And the hope was that the Israelis would let the cargo ships go into Gaza. You keep out the other, the people ships, because the Gazans don't need more people, but they do need the things we were bringing.
And here comes a bunch of guys, fully armed, armed to the teeth. You know, I have noticed -- I got back this morning.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, but let -- let me just stop. Let me -- let me -- let me just stop you there.
PECK: Sure. Of course you can. I'm on your show.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Yes, I --
(LAUGHTER)
PECK: I'm --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You're very kind.
The Israelis would say, in answer to what you just said, look, we, first of all, fear what's going on in Gaza, because it's led by Hamas, and Hamas is bent on our destruction. So, any time that a ship is bringing anything into Gaza, we reserve the right to check and see what's on it.
And then they won't -- they go on to say, in fact, told me just a moment ago when he met me right here, a spokes -- former spokesperson for Bibi Netanyahu said, we will gladly even take all that stuff their ships and take it in there ourselves or do whatever it takes to get in, but we're not going to let it in without us checking to see what is on board.
That's their position. What would you say to that?
PECK: Well, I would say that one of the reasons that people were reluctant to do what they said is that they -- they hadn't been letting stuff in before. Well, why would they let it in afterwards?
SANCHEZ: I see.
PECK: We don't -- I mean, this is what we were going there for, was because the Israelis have not let those people get this kind of material.
You know, we were taking, you know, prefab houses, water purification equipment. We were taking medical supplies. We were taking 100, what, 200 -- well, I'm -- 180 motorized wheelchairs.
Gee whiz, I mean, what kind a threat does that pose? What the Israelis want to maintain is control over the area, and we don't think they should, for the reasons that the -- the people there are suffering, as the world knows.
And so to say that, yes, yes, you give it to us, and we will deliver it -- oh, yes, maybe.
SANCHEZ: I see.
PECK: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I see your point. And -- and -- and you represent it well.
Mr. Peck, you're very kind, sir, to take the time to come through and take us through this perspective on this ongoing story that's really, you know, become worldwide news all of a sudden. We will stay on top of it.
My thanks to you again, sir.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If our laws were broken leading to this death and destruction, my solemn pledge is that we will bring those responsible to justice on behalf of the victims of this catastrophe and the people of the Gulf region.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: BP is under the gun to find a solution and fast. Will their latest attempt minimize a catastrophe or will it make the catastrophe worse? Believe it or not, that's what some folks at the Department of Energy are saying in the White House.
Also, brand-new information that there may be criminal convictions now as a result of this oil leak. That's brand-new. We're going to shake it down for you.
Also, there are sinkholes and then there are sinkholes. Look at the size of this thing. What in the world could cause something like that to develop? We're going to take you through it.
This is your LIST, your national conversation. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. So, much going on, on this day. We're trying to keep our heads above water here to follow all these developments as they come in.
I want to bring you up to date now on a couple of other stories that we haven't even had a chance to mention yet. And they're as important as any others. This is the roundup list.
Number one, we have it on very good authority that the man, that man right there, is dead today. He's Mustafa Abu Yazid, regarded as close to Osama bin Laden as anybody, also helped start al Qaeda, one of the founders of al Qaeda, was a terrorist commander in Afghanistan, one of the figures behind those occasional audio messages and videos from al Qaeda.
A U.S. group keeping an eye on al Qaeda says that he and several family members were killed. This guy had ties to Mohamed Atta, who planned the 9/11 attacks against the United States. Are the drone attacks working? That's a very important part of this story as well.
Now, number two: Remember Major Nidal Hasan? Well, he wheeled himself into a military courtroom today. He's the Army officer and the psychiatrist who witnesses say mowed down 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas, in November. Today, Hasan made an appearance. Hasan has been paralyzed since the day that he was shot after allegedly opening fire on fellow soldiers.
His hearing today was short, by the way. His lawyer asked for more time to prepare, and the judge said OK -- next courtroom appearance October.
Number three, that is not an optical illusion or a doctored photograph. Folks take a look at this. Is that huge or what? That's a monstrous hole in the ground that swallowed a three-story building and a house in Guatemala City. That's (SPEAKING SPANISH) as they call it over there, which actually sounds like an indentation in the ground, as they call it, a sinkhole that appeared after tropical storms pounded the region.
The hole is about 200 feet deep and swallowed an entire four- story building.
Now this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: We're surrounded by fellow patriots --
(CHEERING)
GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: -- individuals who embrace the concepts like lower taxes and smaller government and freedom for every individual.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That is Texas Governor Rick Perry promoting at one point states' rights and rejecting all the Washington money, criticizing the stimulus, except, apparently, when it's convenient for him.
We found what appears to be a bit of a flip-flop on this issue that puts him at the top of one of our lists today. Which one do you think it is? That's ahead.
And then blitzing to the top of our political list this afternoon, word that Al and Tipper Gore have separated, something nobody saw coming. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, we have got to do a little switch here because of everything that is going on right now. And it appears there's plenty going on with BP.
First of all, they're trying to stop the oil leak, as you probably know. And, moments ago, we got some brand-new pictures. I -- I want to show you this right now. Before we do it -- OK, there's the blade, right?
Chad, is that the blade?
MYERS: It is a blade. That's not the blade that's going to cut it off of the blowout preventer.
SANCHEZ: That's not the diamond cutter?
MYERS: That is not the diamond chain or the -- like the diamond loop, no. SANCHEZ: OK.
MYERS: There is -- they're -- they're going to make two cuts today. The first cut is going to literally cut the pipe, the riser pipe that has fallen over, going to cut that in half, so that it's easier to -- to move out of the way.
SANCHEZ: OK.
MYERS: Then they will cut it right there by the blowout preventer at the top, where the oil is going to come out. They will pick it up, pick that piece up that they literally cut out from the long pipe.
They're not -- this pipe is so long right now that they can't just cut it in one spot and --
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: -- and hope that it moves. They have to cut it in two spots and pick up the -- the piece that they just cut, the middle piece that they're cutting out, and then move it over to the side, so they can put this lower riser pipe gap on top.
SANCHEZ: So, this thing we're looking at right here is part of the submersible. And then the submersible has like an arm, very much like what we have seen used by some of those space walks that we have seen in outer space.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: In fact, it looks like it, actually.
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And -- and this is one of the things that it will do as it cuts it.
Now, as far as we know, Chad, it hasn't cut it yet, right?
MYERS: I can't tell.
SANCHEZ: It hasn't maybe -- you don't know? All right.
MYERS: You know, you see these little bugs and whatever -- these little things flying around near the blade. I can't tell whether the blade is actually spinning or not, because we don't have enough frames per second to actually see it.
SANCHEZ: It's amazing.
MYERS: You know, it's a little --
SANCHEZ: All right.
MYERS: It's -- it's -- it's obviously over the Internet. It's -- there's the Internet -- whatever.
SANCHEZ: All right.
So, let me take you through the rest of the story. As you heard just a little while ago as well, there's another part to this story that's very important. Attorney General Eric Holder came out moments ago and said they -- he -- have just officially launched a criminal investigation into this spill.
It is the nation's worst. Now, whether that means they're going to be looking at how Halliburton handled this or how BP handled this or how Transocean handled this or who made mistakes and who's criminally liable in this case, we don't know.
But expect this to have huge reverberations as well, now that the government has officially made this determination.
And, today, one other thing. The number or the amount of the Gulf that is now affected and has gone into a fishing ban, 31 percent. Thirty-one percent of the Gulf of Mexico is now under a fishing ban, which is a huge and very significant number.
Obviously, it's going to have a lot of effect on the people in that community who make their living off of the Gulf waters.
Meanwhile, the marriage that most people thought would go the distance will not. Have you heard the news? Al and Tipper Gore have decided to split up. That is ahead.
And then: Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez so disappointed in President Obama just a year after they seemed to be hitting it off. What happened? We will have that as well.
Stay right there. This is RICK'S LIST.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I'm Rick Sanchez. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: OK. Welcome back.
By the way, we promised you just moments ago that we were going to be getting into the story about Al Gore and Tipper Gore, shocking news, that they are breaking up. And we're going to have that for you in just a moment.
But, first, our breakthrough list -- remember these pictures? This is President Obama with Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez at the Summit of the Americas just over a year ago. President Obama greeted Chavez in Spanish. Chavez called it a good moment and called President Obama an intelligent man.
Flash forward to today. Hugo Chavez has a very different view of President Obama. He's calling him a great disappointment. CNN en Espanol's Washington correspondent, Juan Carlos Lopez, just interviewed Chavez in Caracas.
Juan Carlos, I want to listen, first of all, to what Chavez has to say about President Obama. First of all, this is a year after their meeting in Trinidad and Tobago.
Take this, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): We haven't seen a great deal of change. I think, up to now, Obama has been like those pitchers who are expected to be stellar, and end up being wild.
Obama, to me, until now, has been a great disappointment, a great disappointment, from my point of view, to the great expectations he helped generate of great change within the United States and abroad, but mostly abroad, because one can't get involved in internal decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, it seems like there's a breakup here as well. What happened, Juan Carlos?
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: What's going on? What has changed Chavez's mind about Obama?
JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN EN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he says that decisions made by President Obama haven't shown -- he talks about enigma and about two Obamas. And he says that decisions such as sending U.S. troops to Colombian military bases don't help.
He talked about Iran. He talked about other policies. But he says that President Obama can still earn his Nobel Peace Prize if he does things in the region. And the context, Rick, is, there's a movie coming out, "South of the Border," by Oliver Stone based on Mr. Chavez and other South American leaders who are friendly to Mr. Chavez. And those are the arguments that they make in the movie.
And he said that, when he spoke to President Obama, they talked about Colombia and about the future of have country. And he says that he asked President Obama not to give Colombia so much military aid.
SANCHEZ: You know, it's interesting that he would bring Colombia up.
Look, there -- there's no question -- and you and I both know this because we follow this part of the world perhaps more than most of our colleagues here at CNN, because we're from that part of the world -- the United States has never made, whether it's Obama or Bush or Clinton or Carter or Reagan or Nixon or Ford -- or just keep going back down the list -- has never made a concerted effort to give Latin America its due. And it's in that vacuum that people like Hugo Chavez become not only popular, but powerful.
Isn't this almost exactly what Chavez wants, to have another American president that doesn't seem to be giving Latin America their due?
LOPEZ: Well, remember what he said at the U.N. about President Bush. He didn't refer to President Obama in those terms. And he says that they can still work together if things change. Obviously, we'll have to wait and see.
But you're right, it is a vacuum, and it is -- according to Mr. Chavez and other leaders, they just want to be seen in a different light. They don't want to be told what to do and how to do it, but they want to have a partnership.
SANCHEZ: It's almost this bad, OK? And you tell me if I'm crazy in saying this. If you're a leader in Latin America and you give a speech where you praise the United States, you'll be voted out of office.
LOPEZ: Well, that depends on the country. If you go to Colombia, the Colombian president, Alvaro Uribe, is very close to the U.S. And the U.S. has a very good standing in that country. Peru is also very close. Chile has a good relationship.
SANCHEZ: Chile has a good relationship.
LOPEZ: So it's more of a shift. Oh, yes. Chile has a very good relationship.
SANCHEZ: But you know what I mean. You know what I'm alluding to.
It's almost -- don't we need as a country, the United States of America, to somehow bolster our standing in parts of Latin America so that when they refer to us, it's not about imperialism, it's not about Yankee strength, it's not about bullying, but when they say, "My relationship with the United States of America is something I'm very proud of," people will actually stand up on their chairs and cheer? How do we get to that point? Because we're certainly not there, Carlos.
LOPEZ: One of the points that's been made is that after 9/11, the U.S. had to focus on the Middle East, had to focus on Iraq, Afghanistan, and didn't focus as much as many expected the U.S. would on Latin America. So that, to many, created a vacuum.
And yes, you're right. If there was a different approach -- there is an approach -- President Obama and his administration has been very clear on the importance of the relationship with Mexico and the relationship with Brazil. But obviously other countries in the region expect to have that kind of attention, and they say they haven't received it yet.
SANCHEZ: Good stuff, Carlos. I really enjoyed this conversation.
What about if we, as we say (SPEAKING SPANISH)? Let's do it again.
LOPEZ: Yes. But -- OK, but can we do it in Spanish?
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: All right. I'll go over to CNN en Espanol. But that's like three floors down.
Thanks so much, Carlos. I'll forward to it.
LOPEZ: OK. OK.
SANCHEZ: Take care.
LOPEZ: My pleasure.
SANCHEZ: Texas Governor Rick Perry spoke about rejecting federal money. Well, it was his ticket into the Tea Party, as a matter of fact. There he is.
So why is he now so ready to use the stimulus dollars? In fact, balance his budget with it?
I'm going to take you through this.
Also, the world's best rollerblading ramp-up of the Eiffel Tower. Who knew?
That's also coming up. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. So much going on. This is RICK'S LIST. So glad that you are here.
The Washington Post's Karen Tumulty has covered Al and Tipper Gore for years. And she is joining us now to talk about this story that's really taken -- Karen, it's really taken most of us by surprise.
Let's start there. Were you as surprised as most of your colleagues?
KAREN TUMULTY, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Oh, absolutely. And so were a lot of people who were very, very close to the Gores. Chris Downey, who has been one of their closest friends for many years, who, in fact, introduced Al Gore's older daughter to the guy she married, said she talked to Tipper last week and just didn't have a clue.
SANCHEZ: You know, interestingly enough, most of us thought from everything that we've seen that this was in many ways the ideal couple. They were the couple that was prominent. They were a prominent political couple. She had also ventured into other areas including activism.
You know, it seems that after going that long together, you know, there's a part of this story that makes you go, you've been together almost your entire lives. You've known each other since high school. Why stop now?
I mean, as I talk to my wife -- well, my wife is in Disney World with the kids. But if my wife were home tonight, and we came home, and I was having dinner, I would guarantee you, these are the things that we would probably talk about. And I expect a lot of Americans are going to be asking this.
Don't you think?
TUMULTY: Yes. Well, I mean, let's face it, Rick, most of us have trouble enough understanding and figuring out our own marriages.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
TUMULTY: But trying to figure out somebody else's -- but one thing that was always striking about the Gores was how different the two of them were. Al Gore once told me that they were the -- they were the perfect example of the old cliche of opposites attracting. And Karenna Gore once described her parents as mysteries to each other.
And this was certainly a marriage that over the years, had had its share of stresses, starting with the fact that Tipper Gore claims she never knew she was marrying a politician. And, in fact, her husband didn't tell her until three days before he announced he was running for Congress that he was planning to do this.
So, you know, for many, many years, she was essentially in the back seat of his career. And it was not until their son Albert almost died in a car accident in 1989 that the two of them went into couples counseling, and I think connected in a way that they hadn't before.
SANCHEZ: But you know what's interesting about this as well? And I can't help but mention this. Well, there's a couple of things.
There's the irony that it looks like the Clintons will outlast the Gores' marriage. And if you think of that in terms of the Clinton/Lewinsky years, that seems really ironic, doesn't it?
TUMULTY: Well, again, we don't know anything beyond, and don't have any reason to believe there is anything beyond the Gores saying that this is a separation borne of mutual respect. And so, again, nobody really knows how long this has been in the offing.
SANCHEZ: Well, as a Catholic, you know, maybe it's just me, and maybe it's the way I was raised, but, you know, we're just taught differently, I guess. We're taught, you know, divorce is divorce. And I don't know if it's mutual respect or not, but it means that the marriage has failed and it no longer works.
Isn't it? TUMULTY: Well, again --
SANCHEZ: How do you spin that? I mean, you've been together your whole lives, and all of a sudden you're just going to say, oh, just a little mutual thing, we decided like we're going to take out the garbage today? I mean, this is a marriage that's ending.
TUMULTY: Well, they've raised four children together, they have grandchildren. And certainly their lives, since Al Gore's 2000 run, have gone in probably in directions that the two of them could never have believed. I mean, a Nobel Prize, an Academy Award.
SANCHEZ: That's the thing. That's the thing, Karen. And pardon me for interrupting, but you just hit on something that I think is significant, because you said she wasn't expecting to be with a politician all her life, but yet she made it through the political part very well.
The only thing that I see that has changed in them over the last couple years, as we watch this as outsiders, is he's become kind of a superstar. He's a multimillionaire jet-setting guy who is now a rock star, so to speak, and had an award-winning movie.
Is there a possibility that changed them? And I know, we're going into speculative field here, without question.
TUMULTY: Well, it would change anyone. But don't forget, Tipper Gore is, herself, a woman of great interest, of deep passions. And in 2002, believe it or not, she actually very seriously considered launching a political career of her own and running for the United States Senate from Tennessee.
So, again, this is a woman who has always had things that have driven her. I mean, her campaign against obscene and violent rock music lyrics, you know, it was something that, when a lot of us were younger, she came off as sort of a prude. But as we were raising our own children, all of a sudden Tipper Gore was making a lot of sense.
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SANCHEZ: She sure was.
You know what? This is a refreshing and very interesting conversation. I'm certainly glad we had it. It seems, in many ways, the type of conversation, as I said before, that a lot of people are going to be having around the country, hearing that, as far as we know, it's among probably the most prominent political couples that we've heard of in a long, long time that is going to be going through this divorce.
TUMULTY: That's right. And two people who really complemented each other in very extraordinary ways.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
Karen, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Good seeing you again. TUMULTY: Thanks a lot, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right.
Talk about a raid gone wrong. Israel's flotilla attack is now the country's diplomatic headache. Where does the White House stand, and just how fragile are relations with Israel?
Well, there's information that's come across just during this newscast, brand new developments on this story from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
We'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: By the way, we just gave you that information a little while ago. Our reporters were there, and we may have been among the first to bring you the news that Eric Holder, the attorney General, is now saying that he will move forward with potential criminal proceedings against the companies involved with this oil leak. Obviously, those companies are Transocean and Halliburton and BP, the biggest of all.
Well, BP has just put this statement out, and I want to read it to you. It says, "BP will cooperate with any inquiry that the Department of Justice will undertake, just as we are doing in response to the other inquiries that are already going on."
We watch this as we see these pictures from 5,000 feet below the surface of the Gulf of Mexico. That is the beginning of this process to try and cut, cap and then suck the oil out of that wellhead, possibly. We all have our fingers crossed that they'll be able to stop this leak once and for all.
Meanwhile, now, back to our top story on our list, world outrage against Israel's raid on a ship sending aid to Gaza. The protests are powerful, and we're going to take you through some of those pictures in just a little bit as well.
This is RICK'S LIST. We'll be back after the break.
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SANCHEZ: We have been taking apart this situation in the Middle East. You've heard that I've done interviews with Israelis and Palestinians, as well as journalists covering this.
Now, the reaction around the world, noisy, in some cases violent. Protests hit major cities around the world after Israel's deadly raid on aid ships headed to Gaza.
I want you to take a look at this confrontation. This is from -- oh, yes, this one is from Paris.
Take it full, Rog. All right. I want to show you another one now. I'm going to switch you over to Istanbul, Turkey. Police stood by as thousands of people lit fires and shouted in anger.
Here this is.
And this demonstration was in Sydney, Australia, timed to coincide with the aid ship's arrival in Gaza, but then, of course, got much bigger when they heard about the attack.
And as you saw here live yesterday, during our newscast, we brought you these pictures of a protest in front of the White House. That eventually moved as well to the -- moved over to the Israeli Consulate. They say there were something like 500 people there.
And obviously, we will continue to follow this story for you.
It would be fair to say U.S./Israel relations were already strained. About the last thing that they needed was a botched raid on a relief supply ship.
So now what's the White House's reaction as more details surface today? That's on Wolf Blitzer's list, which is coming up in just a little bit.
Stay with us. RICK'S LIST continues after the break.
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SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer is joining us now to talk about this very difficult situation that really involves not just the Palestinians and the Israelis, but so many different parts of the world, including the United States and its relationship with Israel. You say what, Wolf about, this thing? Will it amplify, will it amp up?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it's going to be a very, very sensitive moment for the Obama White House right now, how they react. Israel is going to be condemned by a lot of the European allies, almost everyone else around the world. They're going to be very angry at the Israelis.
The United Nations Security Council, at some point, could have a formal resolution condemning Israel. Not just the presidential statement that occurred today, but a real resolution that requires a formal vote.
Will the U.S. veto a resolution condemning Israel, as they used to do over the years? Certainly during the Bush administration. Or will the Obama administration go ahead and allow that resolution to be passed either with an abstention or voting in favor of that resolution? These are difficult questions for this administration to try to come up with an answer to.
SANCHEZ: You know, what's funny, though, I was sitting here a little while ago reading this resolution that's been put out by the U.N., and they're not exactly specifically saying we condemn Israel. They're saying we condemn the acts that led up to this terrible event.
You could construe that many different ways. So, you know, as typical diplomacy, things like this sometimes can get a little confusing.
BLITZER: Right. It's a real sensitive issue though, certainly for the Israelis and, of course, for the Palestinians, and for Turkey, but for the U.S., as well. And these are going to be really sensitive issues, coming at a time when the president was trying to make up with Netanyahu. And this is about as sensitive as it gets.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Wolf, look forward to your show because, boy, if anybody's got a handle on this thing, I know you do.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer.
Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Now it's time for "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On." And this is what many of you wait for toward the end of this newscast. It's coming after the break.
Stay right there.
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SANCHEZ: Can you be against something and then take credit for it? Or is that just a little too weird, especially when it includes balancing your entire state's budget with that very thing that you were criticizing?
Time for "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On."
Rick Perry, Republican governor of Texas, boasted about not accepting federal dollars for his state. Made it his crusade to rally against the president's stimulus with very colorful language which included even a reference to the state's rights. He even hinted his state might reserve the right to secede from the union, for which he got tons of press, becoming a darling of the Tea Party movement.
Here he was just last year.
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GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: If Washington continues to erode our rights, while they spend not only our tax dollars, but the dollars of our children's future, assuming that our kids are ever going to get the chance to make those dollars, it's time for us to restore the fundamental principles of our nation and restore our commitment to a shared set of values.
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SANCHEZ: There you go. In fact, Perry is even writing a book. It's entitled "Fed Up," just in time for the midterm election season, about the dangers of big government.
This past April, he bragged at a Tea Party rally about turning down those stimulus dollars.
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PERRY: I'm surrounded by fellow patriots, individuals who embrace the concepts like lower taxes and smaller government and freedom for every individual.
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I'm talking about states' rights. States' rights. States' rights.
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Those states' rights that are enshrined in the Tenth Amendment of the United States Constitution.
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SANCHEZ: Here is the rub. Governor Rick Perry has just gotten credit for balancing the Texas state budget.
How did he do it? With money from the federal government. How much money? Twenty-two billion dollars, all of it from the Obama stimulus package.
And there's more.
Sources that we've talked to say the governor had been bragging recently about declining $550 million while failing to mention that he was accepting $22 billion -- $550 million, $22 billion. Do the math. And there's still more.
Sources say lobbyists for the state of Texas were at the front door, right at the front of the line in Washington, asking for funds for the state while the governor was decrying those very same funds. I mean, can Governor Perry have it both ways? Apparently so.
After all, he is a politician, a politician, who on this day, finds himself on "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On."
I'm Rick Sanchez. Thanks so much for being with us.
I'd like to get you a shot of some of the folks who are visiting with us on this day.
My thanks to those of you who are here for visiting with us, as you do on almost every day.
There's the big wave.
Here now, "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf Blitzer.
