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Rick's List
Flash Floods in Arkansas Kill at Least 20
Aired June 11, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANICE MCRAE, RESIDENT OF CAMP ALBERT PIKE, ARKANSAS (via telephone): --alive, because it was dark. You know, they were going to -- there -- there was campers floating down the river -- down the river. There was vehicles floating down the river, and plus the trees...
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
MCRAE: ... you know, that were washing up.
But, you know, I think it's possible that a lot of people went up to higher ground. And I think that it will take a while, because it's so hard right now to get in. And, as you can see on these pictures, there's -- it's heavily forested.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MCRAE: And we have had, I think -- it looks to me like there's been maybe five helicopters in here flying, but -- flying up and down the river and in the area. But I know that it would be hard to see -- see anybody.
SANCHEZ: Could you have -- could you -- I mean, this is just a question I ask as I'm watching these pictures. I -- I can't imagine putting myself in anything like that, nor -- nor have I ever been in anything like this.
Could you, under these circumstances, foresee a situation where someone would be able to rise with the water and then hang on to one of these trees, so they could literally be higher than, you know, the trunk of the tree at this point, hanging on?
MCRAE: You know, I -- I think that could happen.
SANCHEZ: Yes?
MCRAE: I'm -- I'm praying that it did happen.
I know that there's that -- that there's -- that there's a lot of families that are separated from each other now, because, when this -- when all of this happened -- and it all happened so fast -- it was what's called a head rise. It was where there was just a huge amount of water came down like a -- almost like a tsunami.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And hey, Janice. It's Brooke. And I'm still watching all these pictures, too, and wondering -- you know, you have been here for years. You talk about what happened overnight.
Has anything ever like this happened before, where the river has risen like this? Or is this just something you have never seen?
MCRAE: OK.
You know, I have lived here all my life.
BALDWIN: Right.
MCRAE: My -- my ancestors homesteaded up here. I have lived other places, but this has always been my home. In 1968, when I was just a child, this happened.
SANCHEZ: Hmm.
BALDWIN: This intense, this -- this -- this awful?
MCRAE: This intense. I -- I'm thinking about -- I'm trying to think about where the water was back then and where it was now. And I think that it -- it's very similar.
But the difference is, this was in 1968. People did not camp up here year-round.
BALDWIN: Ah.
MCRAE: This happened in May. It was May 13 of 1968 when it happened, and there was nobody up here, except my parents and me, and one guy down in his cabin down there. You know...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, guys -- Janice, hold on just a minute. We're going to have somebody else join us in our conversation now. It's Bill Sadler. Bill Sadler is with the Arkansas state police.
Mr. Sadler, you're on with Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST. Also with us is Janice McRae. She's there in the campground. And we're also with Brooke Baldwin.
Sir, what do you have to report?
BILL SADLER, ARKANSAS STATE POLICE: Rick, at this hour, the fatality count has risen to 16. And there is a presumption that, through the remainder of the daylight hours that are available, that additional dead may be located as the search continues.
Are there individuals alive that are still in this area? We don't know at this time, but a search is going to continue as long as necessary to ensure we get everybody out of there.
SANCHEZ: What about the 36 that are -- that are -- that are said to be missing? I mean, when -- when -- when we say missing or unaccounted for, what do we mean by that?
SADLER: Well, I don't know where that number has come from today, as to how that -- that -- that number got circulated. It didn't come from the Arkansas State Police...
SANCHEZ: OK.
SADLER: ... because we never -- we -- we had no accounting of who was in the campground.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: By the way, just for clarification, that number came from Arkansas Emergency Management.
SADLER: OK.
SANCHEZ: I don't know if that helps you or not or -- I -- look, listen, by the way, I understand what these things are like. You're getting to the scene. The information is coming in, in drips and drabs. You're doing everything you possibly can to get the information to us.
So...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: ... it's OK not to be...
SADLER: Oh, no, no, no.
SANCHEZ: ... exact in these things.
SADLER: And -- and I -- and I would underscore that has been one of the challenges today, is that, are -- do -- are doing enough to -- to -- and putting enough personnel on the ground to -- to cover the area? And -- because we don't know exactly where people were, how many people were in there, in what groups they may have been.
So, we want to make sure that we have got the people and the resources necessary to cover that area.
SANCHEZ: So, in other words -- I'm almost hear -- what I'm almost hearing you say is, you're not discounting the possibility that there may be people alive that you just haven't gotten to yet?
SADLER: That -- that is correct.
And many people whom, as you mentioned, may be unaccounted for, it's very possible that they walked out on their own and may be trying to make their way back to family or friends.
SANCHEZ: And they haven't contacted you?
SADLER: Right.
SANCHEZ: OK. That makes a lot of sense.
When did you first get word, when did Arkansas police first get word of this incident? And how soon were -- was it before you were able to get to the actual ground zero, as we have been calling it, the place where the -- where the impact took place?
SADLER: The state police began to realize that there was a -- a serious problem developing at around 5:30 this morning. That's Little Rock time. And that's when, coincidentally, that we now know that the water had peaked at that 27 -- excuse me -- 22-foot mark...
SANCHEZ: Wow.
SADLER: ... approaching 23.
And we had a state trooper who happened to be in that area who was camping. And he became aware that there was an imminent problem, that people's lives were in danger. And he notified his headquarters of what was going on, and resources began to move into the area.
SANCHEZ: I imagine that, as long as you have been doing your job, you still had to be somewhat shocked, you and your colleagues, when you came upon this scene. We have received reports today from Arkansas authorities that said that, when they got there, they were warning other officials that it was a pretty gruesome scene, especially considering that there were families down there and it involved small children.
SADLER: You know, it's -- it's -- it's never easy to approach one of these things where there are mass casualties.
But the -- the -- the -- what makes it even more difficult is that you're in a very remote area.
SANCHEZ: Hmm.
SADLER: And you just can't get enough people in there quick enough to -- to begin searching and trying to help.
SANCHEZ: Bill Sadler with the Arkansas State Police, thank you, sir. My best to you and yours. Good luck with your efforts out there. Keep us in touch, and we will do everything we can to try and help you in any way we can here at CNN.
Wow.
Janice McRae, you too. You still with us, Janice?
I want to thank Janice, by the way, for -- I'll tell you, it's been a -- I have covered a lot of stories like this. I don't think I have ever heard someone as composed and as well able -- as able as she was to take us through the stories one by one.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Rescuing those two young boys on the top of a cabin. SANCHEZ: You listen to her stories, and you almost feel like you're there.
I mean...
BALDWIN: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: ... she tells you what it's like to be there, pitch dark, middle of the night. You're hanging on to a log. You're floating in a river. Suddenly, all you see is the little bleep from cars that are floating by.
Unbelievable.
BALDWIN: Unbelievable.
SANCHEZ: Chad Myers is going to join us in a little bit. I think he just got wind of what he heard the state police said, that we're -- that the river hit the 22-foot mark -- the 22-foot mark.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes.
SANCHEZ: He's going to tell us exactly why that's significant in a little -- in a little bit. And, obviously, Brooke's going to be hanging by as well. And she's collecting all the data that she possibly can, so she can bring it to you.
This is RICK'S LIST, a special edition of RICK'S LIST, no -- no doubt, as we continue with this breaking story, new pictures coming in, new information, disaster in Arkansas.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We're going to check our sources in Washington now, because we understand that Barbara Starr is joining us. And she has made contact with the -- with some of the National Guard folks who have been responding or called out to help with the situation in Arkansas.
Barbara, thanks so much for joining us.
What have you learned? What can you share with us?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, I can tell you, within the last hour, the National Guard Bureau, essentially, the National Guard here in the Pentagon, is now ratcheting up monitoring this situation in Arkansas, this tragedy, very, very closely.
And they're giving us some new details about what is going on, on scene, on the ground. Let me walk you through a couple of things, Rick. First of all, there are two Oklahoma National Guard helicopters in the area. They just happened to be flying around. They have now been diverted to the scene.
These are called OH-58 helicopters.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
STARR: They are observation helicopters flying over. Why is it so important they're there? Rick, these kind of helicopters have night-vision equipment, and there are not that many hours of daylight left. So, you can expect to see them up there trying to get a fix on the -- what is going on in this flooded area.
But there are also two Black Hawk helicopters up there from the Arkansas National Guard. And, indeed, Arkansas Governor Mike Beebe at this hour is on board one of those Black Hawks, essentially on a rescue mission, Rick.
They are flying over the scene at this hour, we are told. They are looking for survivors. They haven't found anybody. They're going to stay up as long as they can. They're going to refuel. They're going to keep going back. Like Chad Myers is reporting, the National Guard has estimates that the water rose so quickly, tens of feet, you know, within the hour, and, so -- when this all unfolded.
So, now the National Guard marshaling its resources, putting up helicopters. They're going to try and get trucks and vehicles into the area, we're told, but, clearly, laying in the capability, the military capability, with night-vision equipment, so they can stay up there and keep looking for survivors even when they lose daylight.
SANCHEZ: This has got...
STARR: Rick.
SANCHEZ: This has got to be so tough for them, Barbara. I mean, you -- if you look at -- if you look at the terrain, not only is it rugged, but it's also so heavily forested this time of year that, even if there are survivors out there, it's just -- it's going to be darn difficult to spot them.
STARR: It is going to be very difficult to spot them. These helicopters have some of the most sophisticated infrared thermal imaging equipment, the kinds of very high-tech sensing equipment, you know, that we have seen in war zones for years. They can distinguish between hot and cold. They can distinguish potential human movement. If there is someone clinging to a tree, if there is a car engine running that has some kind of heat signature, they will see it.
SANCHEZ: Hmm.
STARR: But getting into the area -- so, these helicopters, Rick, the Black Hawks, as you know-, are also equipped with hoists. And they can basically hoist downwards the crew members, the highly trained rescue teams that can go right down to the helicopters into these areas, if they find people, and get them out of there as fast as they can.
They are working against the clock. They can work at night, but it's going to be very tough going, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Well, as you can see, we have got all of CNN's resources working on the story. Barbara Starr is among those.
And, Barbara, with you there, we have got some sad news to report. I have just been informed by Angie Massie, my executive producer, that the death toll, as we expected, has increased. Arkansas Department of Emergency Management is now reporting that the death toll is now 20, 20 people confirmed dead in this -- this disaster that took place overnight there in this campground in Arkansas.
We expected that might happen during our hours. It's possible it could go -- it could go up even higher.
Stay with us. This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST, "Disaster in Arkansas." We're going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, we have got an opportunity now to bring you right into this situation that's developed in Arkansas.
For those of you just now joining us, I said this just as we were going to break, but, sadly enough, the death toll has, in fact, increased once again. You know, it started off this morning with three. Then it went to six, then 12, then 14, then 16.
And, just moments ago, we were told by Arkansas authorities that the death toll in Arkansas is now 20. The last time we heard, the number of people missing or unaccounted for was something like 36.
Of course, those numbers are going to be somewhat inexact. Look at that camper right there. That's one of the ones closest to the river that was moved. Witnesses we have been talking to say it was a nightmare, when, suddenly, these flash floods began there.
We have someone on the phone now which is unique to this story, because he was there when this thing happened.
His name is Nick Hofert. As his story goes, he was there in the middle of the night when, suddenly, he was awakened by screams, ran out, and suddenly saw what was going on, involved himself in it, and ended up actually involved in many of the rescues that took place, he says 20 to 30 rescues that he immediately had to get involved in while he was there on the scene.
Mr. Hofert, thank us -- thank you, sir, for taking time to join us.
NICK HOFERT, SURVIVED ARKANSAS FLASH FLOOD: Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: Take us through what it was like for you from the moment you heard the screams and woke up.
HOFERT: Well, that started about 2:15 in the morning. And I was laying on the couch kind of dozing and sleeping kind of cautious on the weather, and I started hearing the children and women screaming. So, I went to the door. And there was -- I mean, they were packed up trying to come up the mountain.
I have a cabin on the -- on the hill there. And water was rising faster than I have -- I have ever seen. And I grabbed all -- I got all the families packed in to my cabin. And some had panicked to the point that they had separated, and some stayed around the R.V. parks. Some went up the mountain, which is behind the cabin, so, had to go up and check on families and see what families I had and which ones that were up on the mountain, anyway, and got two of them back together, two families.
But it was -- I had help from another guy. His name was Tipton (ph). It was -- he was a great help, and help from several people. But what I did, anybody would have done to help.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What did you do? What did you see?
(CROSSTALK)
HOFERT: ... just...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What did you see? What did you do? Take us through, as concretely as you can, exactly what happened.
HOFERT: I just -- I put the people in my cabin and sat around (AUDIO GAP) I checked the water levels after, you know, every five minutes, and it was rising. So, I was -- of course, I had a lot of young children. So, we didn't know, you know, if they could make it up the mountain.
SANCHEZ: How young?
HOFERT: We had some that were around 4 all the way up to 16. And there -- I mean, there was quite a few there that might have been 7, 6 that couldn't have made it up the mountain. Plus...
SANCHEZ: So, they're climbing -- they're climbing up the mountain to...
HOFERT: Well, they were...
SANCHEZ: ... get away from the water, from the rushing waters?
HOFERT: Yes, sir, right there where my cabin -- they were climbing -- well, they were climbing up the hill there, and then mountain -- the mountains after that...
SANCHEZ: Right. HOFERT: ... which we didn't have to -- I didn't have to get anybody out of the cabin. My cabin ended up not flooding. It flooded the bottom half of my cabin. It reached the door, which it had come up so fast, within, I would say, 10 to 15 minutes, that it shocked me, where I was going to have to get them out of the cabin and go up the mountain.
SANCHEZ: Huh.
HOFERT: But, eventually, the rain ended up stopping, and it lowered. But I have never seen any kind of...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, you were literally -- so, these people were literally looking for high ground, as would be natural...
(CROSSTALK)
HOFERT: Yes, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
HOFERT: They were -- they were coming up from everywhere, yes, sir. And they -- I mean, it was like ants running from -- from water. I mean, it was bad.
And then they had split -- it happened so fast that they, like I said, lost their -- half of their family or lost somebody in their family. And that was the main concern, was, you know, finding them, and luckily found all of them in the R.V. -- R.V. park area, which (AUDIO GAP) area of tents and other camping areas are the ones that we have lost, you know, but, luckily, got all of them out that were around the -- the cabins right there.
SANCHEZ: We have just learned -- we have got a tweet that just came from the governor's office. This is Governor Beebe, who we have been in contact all day with, by the way. In fact, we had talked to the governor. And he was going to join us at the very top of the show today, and then he called us back and said: I apologize, but I'm not going to be able to join you.
Instead, he went up in a helicopter. He's flying around in a Black Hawk right. Here's the tweet he just sent us. "Governor Beebe en route to Montgomery County aboard ANG Black Hawk. Communications may be limited once we land."
So, hopefully, we will be hearing from the governor as soon as he touches down.
Now, Brooke, you -- you were mentioning this a little while ago. And that is that the picture that he's drawing for us right now, he's telling us about these people looking for high ground...
BALDWIN: Yes. SANCHEZ: ... and how difficult that must have been, but especially when you consider how dark it must have been in the middle of the night.
BALDWIN: That's what I keep coming back to. I mean, it's horrific enough when you see the pictures now in broad daylight. But just to try, you know, as you and I are trying to do, to put ourselves in these people's positions, in the middle of the night, the water is rising, the rain is coming down.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: As the one woman described, some of these trucks going down the river with just their headlights on, and that's the bit -- flickers of light.
SANCHEZ: That's the only she sees.
What was that like, Mr. Hofert, the fact that it was raining, the waters were rising? I imagine it was probably quite windy in this kind of rain situation.
HOFERT: Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: And then it was dark, right?
HOFERT: Yes, sir.
We would see -- we would see spotlights going down the river, which we didn't know if people were holding them or if they were just turned on and dropped, but was able to -- we found a family on top of a camper. We couldn't get to them because the water was too strong, but, luckily, two trees had stopped the camper from flowing on down the river, where they wouldn't have made it if it wasn't for that. But (AUDIO GAP) they...
SANCHEZ: So, you realized -- so, essentially, what you were seeing -- and you didn't know it at the time -- is that vehicles were floating down the river?
HOFERT: Yes, sir, vehicles, and these camp (AUDIO GAP) it was -- there was -- it sounded like gunshots going off when they would -- they would hit cabins and hit each other. It was very loud.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
HOFERT: And it was just -- it was amazing. It was crazy how...
SANCHEZ: And, Mr. -- Mr. Hofert, can you hold on for just a second?
HOFERT: Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: We would like to keep you past the break. Is that all right with you, sir?
HOFERT: HOFERT: Yes, sir, that's fine.
SANCHEZ: All right.
Nick Hofert is joining us there. He was at the park in the middle of the night trying to help people to get to high ground, many of them, as a matter of fact. The latest we have learned is that the death toll has risen once again. Now it's up to 20 people have lost their lives in this tragedy.
This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST. I'm here with my colleagues Chad Myers, who has got some new numbers on just how high the water went on the -- on the rivers.
And Brooke Baldwin's joining me as well. And the three of us are going to be taking you through this.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
I'm so fortunate to be able to share with you the stories of people who are taking us through what it was really like last night at 1:00, 2:00 in the morning when this flash flood came through in Arkansas.
I mean, these are good, kind-hearted people who gave of themselves to save other people in that area, people like Janice McRae, who we were talking to just a little while ago, people like Nick -- Nick Hofert, who -- who -- who we have got on the phone with us now, who really are telling us what it was like in that very moment, in that instance, when this thing -- when this thing happened.
Before we do anything else, I want to go to my colleague Chad Myers, because I -- I would like to get a better sense.
Two things, Chad. A lot of folks are joining us now and they're trying to figure out, A, where was this?
MYERS: Right.
MATTHEWS: I know you keep saying, Arkansas, Rick Sanchez. But where exactly in Arkansas is this?
And the other thing is, when we were doing an interview with one of the state officials a little while ago, one of the -- one of the police officers there, he said, this thing hit the 22- or 23-foot mark on the river.
MYERS: Right.
SANCHEZ: What -- what does that mean? How significant is that?
MYERS: Eight days. This is the United States Geological Survey at work. These are your tax dollars at work. And they don't make great graphics, because they don't want to spend too much of your money.
But there you go. This is the Little Missouri River at Langley, Arkansas, where our reporter was about an hour ago. So, for the past eight days, this river was this, a flat line at three feet deep.
Then, all of a sudden, last night, it started to rain. It went from three feet, Rick, to 23-and-a-half, and then now it's all the way back down to almost where it started. So, this is what we talk about, flash flooding.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
MYERS: It flashed. It went 20 feet higher than it was, and now it's back down 15 feet from where it came from.
So, it is -- all the pictures we're seeing now are -- show basically insignificant flooding compared to what we had last night. So, yes, OK, where were -- where are we? Let me draw Arkansas for you right here. There's Arkansas. There's the river. There's Memphis. There's the top. There's the boot heel. Great. Now we're moving.
Now we're moving over here toward Fort Smith and the Albert Pike campground, the Ouachita National Forest. Look at the mountains. They are kind of going east to west here.
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: The mountain is catching the water, literally catching it in these basins, washing down into, because gravity works, and the Ouachita, Ouach River, all the way back down here, the Little Missouri and the Caddo flooding right here at the Albert Pike campground.
And all of our pictures that we have been seeing from right here, roads coming in this way, roads going up the river this way, and all of these cabins are affected right along this river here from north to south, as the water rushed in, from three feet deep to 22-and-a-half, 23 feet deep, now back down to seven.
SANCHEZ: So, it was a giant washout. How...
MYERS: Sure was.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Nick, Chad just explained it to us and showed it to us on the map, even showed us the numbers. This thing went up to 23-and-a-half feet from five feet. That's a whole lot.
How long did it take? You were there.
HOFERT: Well, yes, I was here. I got back here about 7:00 last night, and it started raining, you know, a little bit, not as hard. But around, I'd say, 10:00 to midnight, it started raining pretty hard. And it wouldn't stop. It wouldn't give up at all.
SANCHEZ: So let's do the math here. So you say it started raining 10:00 to midnight, we'll say 11:00, call it even. From 11:00 to then 2:00 in the evening, that's three hours. In that three-hour period, this hellacious situation with this flash flood built up and came down those hills, then, right?
HOFERT: Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: That's amazing. Three hours, think about that. It's not like they really had a lot of time.
And was there any kind of -- you know, I know you were out in the sticks. The reason people are there is because they want to be. They want to go out and enjoy some peace and relaxation.
HOFERT: Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: But was there any kind of alarms? Were there any authorities? Is there any way people could've known other than to have a radio on them?
HOFERT: No, sir, other than the 80 percent chance, they couldn't judge how much -- there was no flash flood warnings that I recall or anything like that. And as far as rescue, we had -- the bridge was out, covered from water and trees over it.
There was one other way out, which was up the mountain on the dirt road, and it was -- there was a mudslide. So you couldn't get that way.
And they had to rebuild that road before getting rescued. But is as far as -- we had nothing other than the regular 80 percent chance of thunderstorms. I didn't hear anything of flash flood warnings or anything. There's no kind of alarms up here.
SANCHEZ: Are you surprised by the number I just received from Arkansas state authorities that the death toll has now climbed to 20?
HOFERT: Yes, sir. I never would have thought this.
SANCHEZ: Really?
HOFERT: Never would have, no, not along the Missouri River.
SANCHEZ: We just got a new tweet.
Is that right, Brooke?
BALDWIN: Yes, let's take a look. This is from -- it looks like Arkansas Emergencies.
"ADEM is preparing to open a call center to gather information on possible missing persons from the current flooding event. More information soon."
So, of course, there are a lot of people calling in wondering where their mom and dad --
SANCHEZ: Well, this is really important, because there no way of accounting who was there and who wasn't there.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: There may be people there who just got out and went home.
BALDWIN: And we learned not everyone necessarily had to register. So it's still sort of nebulous as to how many people might have been there. That's part of the tough part.
SANCHEZ: Thursday night, they're figuring there may have been 300 people camping out there.
BALDWIN: Maybe.
SANCHEZ: What's your best guess, Nick? What's your best guess, Mr. Hofert, as to how many people were there last night? Is there any way of quantifying this?
HOFERT: No, sir. All I would know is the ones that were in the campgrounds, which it was full -- but as far as there's a lot that camp on the side of the river up the mountain, up river and then below river, also, there's very popular spots that they go where there's no electricity, no water or anything. But it's good spots. And there's no telling -- I'm sure all of them were packed.
SANCHEZ: You don't know. You just don't know.
HOFERT: No. I just don't have any idea on the number.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
Hey, Mr. Hofert, thanks to you. I'd like to give you my appreciation for taking time to take us through us. I know you reached out to us earlier today. We've been calling you.
And I guess for those family members who you helped comfort in the middle of the night, and you helped them get up to your place, and the folks that you rescued on behalf of their families --
BALDWIN: A brave man.
SANCHEZ: A brave man, yes. My thanks to you for doing that.
HOFERT: I only done what I would hope everybody else would do, just help people out. That's it.
SANCHEZ: Yes. That's what we're supposed to do. Thank you, sir.
HOFERT: Yes, sir. Thank you.
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's do this -- we expect even more information. We hope the death toll will stay where it is.
Unfortunately -- I mean, first thing we came in this morning, we started hearing about this story. And the more we heard, the more we figured that this thing wasn't going to get any -- it wasn't going to be less impactful, it was only going to be more impactful.
So, now, as authorities start to get to the scene, we hope to be able to bring even more information, more news, and share it with you as we go. And that's why Brooke's here, that's why Chad's here, and all of the resources of CNN, to get you as much information in this one area as we possibly can, as remote as it is.
This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST. We're glad you're here.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We have spoken to some people who were actually in -- first of all, welcome back, everyone. This is RICK'S LIST, a special edition of RICK'S LIST that we're doing today.
This disaster in Arkansas has us all kind of -- well, breathing a little sigh, because we're watching what must have happened to these people in the middle of the night, last night, as they were trying to sleep with their families. And suddenly, this giant weather system came through that created these flash floods right into this valley.
And we understand now the death toll's up to 20. As far as we still know, there may be as many as 36 people unaccounted for.
And Brooke Baldwin's good enough to join me now. Chad Myers has been joining me as we've watching these brand new pictures come in, some of which we've seen for the very first time with you, unedited.
But aside from seeing these pictures and talking to authorities, police officers, people with the state, we've also had a chance to talk to some of the people who were actually there, some of the good people of Arkansas who know the region, live in the campground, or work in the campground.
And a little while ago, Brooke, we were talking to a woman named --
BALDWIN: Whitney Bettis.
SANCHEZ: -- Janice --
BALDWIN: Oh, Janice McRae.
SANCHEZ: I think it was Whitney Bettis was the one we were talking to first.
Right?
BALDWIN: She was the one. She wasn't actually there. It was her aunt and uncle. Remember?
I had tracked her down earlier in the day because I heard she was looking for her family. She was terrified, like so many people probably still are, even right now. And she broke the news to us live on CNN about 20 minutes ago saying she had heard from her aunt and uncle. They're OK. And she was just sort of walking us through the campground.
SANCHEZ: And not only broke the news, but she herself, you could tell, was -- broke down.
BALDWIN: She broke down. She ended our interview with her.
SANCHEZ: Let's share this. Let's go to this.
BALDWIN: Let's roll it.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
If you've got that, Dano (ph), let's play this so folks can hear this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITNEY BETTIS, CONCERNED ABOUT RELATIVES IN ARKANSAS: The way you measure things in Arkansas, I guess, is to the nearest Wal-Mart. It's probably a good 45 minutes to an hour to the nearest, you know, sit-down restaurant or anything like that. It's a very -- it's a beautiful, beautiful part of the state. And like I said, I can remember sitting in the edge of the river and playing with tadpoles and catching -- the allure of the whole thing is everyone wants to go because it is so secluded and it is so quiet.
BALDWIN: These pictures are unbelievable.
BETTIS: I'm seeing the pictures of cabins that I remember from when I was 10 years old. This is really hard to watch.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
BALDWIN: Oh, gosh.
SANCHEZ: God bless you, Whitney.
BETTIS: Thank you.
BALDWIN: Whitney, thank you. Thank you so much --
SANCHEZ: Our thoughts are with you.
BALDWIN: -- for calling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That was tough.
BALDWIN: That was tough to listen to. She brought it home, I think, not only for us, but for so many people who are watching, or grateful we're covering the story as we are, as we're learning with everyone else what this looked like in the middle of the night. SANCHEZ: You know what's interesting? We've been seeing these pictures, but for most of us who haven't been there or don't know the area --
BALDWIN: It's hard to understand.
SANCHEZ: -- it's hard to understand. It's a building, it's a campsite, it's a campground. It's an RV. But look at these pictures.
Put those pictures back up, Dan, if you could. And we can look together at some of the stuff that's coming in now.
And you see as you look at this that -- and Chad was describing this to us a little while ago -- there's no question, because of the ferocity of the water as it came through -- again, remember, as Chad keeps explaining this, it's a whole lot of water going into a very small space. So, literally, what it did is it filled the banks of the river, and anybody that was near the banks of the river was literally washed.
BALDWIN: That's why they call it a flash flood, right? It happens in a flash?
MYERS: Flash, sure. Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: So there were vehicles that were there that may have been in one place --
MYERS: Hey, Rick --
SANCHEZ: but ended up in another place.
Go ahead, Chad.
MYERS: -- look at that bridge. Look at the bridge. Right?
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: I want to show you that bridge on Google Earth. This is in a happier time.
This is -- Google drives around and they take pictures of everywhere.
Keep going, Dave. Keep going all the way around. Let me see the weeds in this water.
Dave, keep going. There you go.
This is what the river should look like. Look at this.
There's not even enough water in there to keep a frog happy on a normal day. And look -- and this thing was 20 feet higher than this yesterday.
SANCHEZ: Yes, 20 feet higher. That's the point. Now, we also saw these pictures a little while ago as we go by this river. Let's see if we can stay on this video.
Have we got that video up, Dan?
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: This is the point that Angie Massey (ph) made a little while ago. And she said if you'll notice as you watch the river, you'll see trees on the banks of the river that have been completely knocked over. I mean, bent over in some cases.
You'll see those in the upper corner. Let's stay with this video if we can for just a little bit.
BALDWIN: There they are, upper right.
SANCHEZ: And we'll watch this together.
BALDWIN: Upper right.
SANCHEZ: Upper right. There you go. There you go.
See it right there?
BALDWIN: That just shows how fast it came through.
SANCHEZ: Yes. It came through, took the trees out, and literally bent them over.
Now, remember, those trees, you're not going to bend those trees out by just hitting the trunk at the bottom. You would have to hit them at least midway, if not higher. The water literally went over some of those trees.
BALDWIN: But not only that, I think what was so heart-wrenching for me is when we've been talking to some of these people and they're recognizing some of these cabins that are now decimated -- I think it was Janice who said, "I stayed there as a child." And now they're heartbroken because it's gone.
SANCHEZ: We expect to talk to some Arkansas officials when we come back from the break to bring us up to date on exactly what the situation is there.
Once again, folks, we're staying with this. This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST.
We expected this thing might be pretty serious, and it's serious indeed.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I know many of you have been -- I'm reading your tweets as we've been going through this coverage. And many of you are wanting to know if there's anything you can do to help, what information or what numbers we can share with you. And we will. And we'll be putting that information on our own blog, or on CNN.com, so you can get that information for yourself.
I think a lot of the officials are still busy out there trying to deal with what they have in their hands right now.
In the meantime, many of you are also commenting on the story. And we thank you for that, as well.
We thought this would be a good time to share some of your thoughts as you've been watching our coverage. We thank you, by the way, for your thoughts. And I'm sure some of the people going through this in Arkansas do as well.
Let's go to our regular tweet board, if we possibly can.
We start at the top. It says, "I can't imagine the terror felt by the campers that were sleeping when this water hit."
I'll tell you, neither can we.
"Grateful that the Guard is there to pull them out of floodwaters. Hard to pull out neighbors, family and friends."
Indeed, it is.
"I'm floored by this story. One minute you're here, the next minute you're drowning. Wow."
The next one says, "You're doing a good job, Rick. Unlike BP, this disaster is small enough for human scale. So, in some ways, it's even more gut-wrenching."
That's an interesting point.
And then, finally, "Hug your loved ones each day before you leave and when you get home. You just never know when your time is up."
I guess that certainly can be said of the folks who were there along the campground last night.
This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST. More information that we expect we'll be getting in the next couple of minutes, and we'll be sharing it with you.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And what an amazing story this has been as we've been bringing it to you.
Let's go back to some of the pictures that we've gotten. These are brand new pictures we've gotten here in CNN world headquarters within the past 45 minutes or so.
This is what is left of a campground that was literally demolished by rising waters after a flash flood last night. The death toll is now up to 20. There are still some people unaccounted for.
We've got our guests now that have just entered here with us. They've been watching this story, as well.
You can get a shot of some of the folks here in the studio. These are the folks who are joining us here in the CNN world headquarters who join us from time to time to go through the show. They're as dismayed as anybody is looking at these pictures.
It's kind of sad to see.
And Brooke, you and I have been talking about this. I mean, one minute you're -- you know, as a dad, nothing I could look forward more to than, you know what? I'm going to take Friday off, and Thursday night me and my kids are going down to the lake, or going down to the campground, we're going to spend the night outdoors and we're going to tell stories.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: You know, it's kind of a special time for most Americans to do something like that.
BALDWIN: Sure, but not only, I was thinking -- not only does your heart go out for some of these families, these loved ones, the people who have either died or who are missing, but also the rescue workers. You talked to the one gentleman, I think from state police, saying, look, this is one of the most gruesome scenes some of our men and women are having to come upon and work. And you think about that.
SANCHEZ: And they know them.
BALDWIN: And they know them.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Some of these people out there are people they know.
All right. We expect as we come back -- we want you to hear a special part of this story, part of what it was actually like to be there in the middle of the night. As Brooke says, pitch darkness, when suddenly the waters come in and you're hanging on to a log floating down through this river, which is really not a river now, but just part of the flooding. That story told in a very descriptive and concrete way when we come back.
This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I don't know if you guys who are with us here now got a chance to see this, but Brooke and I had a chance a little while ago to talk to somebody who was there. I mean -- she -- not only was she there, but her description of what it was like when this happened last night is probably as good as anything we've seen so far.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: This is Janice McRae describing last night when these floodwaters came in and killed 20 people.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANICE MCRAE, LIVES ON CAMP ALBERT PIKE IN ARKANSAS: It's breaking my heart.
SANCHEZ: I feel so bad for you. I'm so sorry.
MCRAE: I'm telling you, it's not about me. It's about these people, that this is such a special place for these cabin owners.
SANCHEZ: Were you there?
MCRAE: Yes, I was there.
SANCHEZ: When it happened last night?
MCRAE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: What did you see?
MCRAE: I was asleep, you know. It was raining, but we didn't know that it was going to be flooding because we hadn't had much rain lately.
The ground wasn't wet, wasn't saturated. We weren't worried about it. We were in bed asleep at about -- I don't know what time it was, 2:30, maybe. A call came in from one of our cabin owners saying that --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, Janice, hold on just a moment. We're getting a strange -- OK, it's gone. We're good. Sorry about that.
Go on, Janice. Continue.
MCRAE: OK -- saying that the water was coming up in his cabin. So we jumped out of bed right then and got dressed and went down there. And we rescued two little kids, two little boys off of that cabin right there that's on TV right now.
SANCHEZ: Really?
BALDWIN: You rescued two kids out of that cabin?
MCRAE: There were two kids on the top of that cabin, on the roof. Of course, that's all that was sticking out, was just the roof.
SANCHEZ: Where were their parents?
MCRAE: What?
SANCHEZ: Where were their parents?
MCRAE: They were up with their grandparents, which are elderly, very elderly grandparents. And he was in the water, we could see him.
There was a man that was with me. We both waded out to him in the water and got him and pulled him to safety.
And then we found the grandmother. She was down in the water behind the cabin there. And we got her out. That was early. That was way before daylight.
SANCHEZ: And the kids were on top of the camper?
MCRAE: The kids were on top of the cabin.
SANCHEZ: On top of the cabin.
BALDWIN: On top of the cabin.
MCRAE: On that cabin, yes.
And at daylight, it's really -- it was a while before anybody could get in here, because the roads -- we'd had some cave-ins. And there were roads -- my husband got on his tractor. He went up and cleared the roads so the emergency vehicles could come in.
BALDWIN: And Janice, it's real easy for us to look at the pictures right now, broad daylight, and we're seeing sort of the destruction and the aftermath. But again, just to reiterate to people who may not realize this, this is happening in the middle of the night, in the pitch dark, with all this rain and flood.
MCRAE: I was talking to a young mother that did not know where her 5-year-old son, her 2-year-old daughter, her husband -- she does not know or did not at that time know where they are. She was telling me about how that they got the kids into the pickup, and before they could even get the pickup into the -- into reverse, that it was -- they started floating away.
BALDWIN: It was that fast?
MCRAE: And then another car came and crashed into them. And their camper crashed into them, and it knocked them all out of the pickup.
And she told me about how that in the pitch darkness, she was holding on to a tree that was coming down the river, and she said she could not tell anything. You know, it was pitch dark. And every so often there would be a vehicle that would rush floating by her with its parking lights on or something blinking, and she could kind of look around and get a little bit of a sense of where she was.
BALDWIN: And Janice, we're not just talking about a couple of families here. I mean, we're hearing -- and you're the manager of the campground, so you can tell us. We're talking potentially hundreds of people.
MCRAE: Actually, I'm not the manager of the campground. This -- our property is adjacent to --
BALDWIN: Got you.
MCRAE: -- the Forest Service camp that's called Albert Pike Recreational Area. And so, anyway, these were campers in all that were camped up in the Forest Service area, camping area.
SANCHEZ: Yes. They don't even -- we understand they don't -- they're not even registered.
MCRAE: No, they don't -- well, you know what?
SANCHEZ: You just go in there.
MCRAE: They do -- part of it is, just, they don't register. You just go in there and camp.
BALDWIN: So we don't know how many people.
MCRAE: Yes. In the camping area itself, you register, but you put your name in an envelope and put it in a box. And the box is -- there's no way --
BALDWIN: This is rugged camping.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you something I heard you say a little while ago. I heard you say that as soon as your husband went out there, one of the first things he saw was cave-ins. What do you mean by cave- ins?
MCRAE: OK. The road coming in here as you saw when you all were showing the Google Earth --
SANCHEZ: Yes, ma'am?
MCRAE: -- the road coming in here is curvy. And it's -- you know, we're just in a valley. This is a valley here.
Well, as you come over into the valley -- and that road has been carved out of the mountain. There's places where the ground -- the water rushed through down the mountain. I don't know what I'm saying. But, anyway, and it washed dirt off of the upper part of the road across it.
SANCHEZ: I see.
MCRAE: So he had to push rocks and dirt and clay. And I really hadn't asked him about trees or whatever. But, ,yes, he had to clear a spot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: I'm reading here some of the things that many of you are writing. One of you said just moments ago as you were listening to Janice's story, "It just breaks my heart. I hope more survivors can be found."
Ditto.
From all of us here, Brooke and Chad, thanks for being with us for these last couple of hours as we've taken you through this story.
Wolf is going to be focussing on this, as well, and bring you the very latest.
Here now, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer.
