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Rick's List

Oil Could Hit South Florida Beaches; Giant Oil Skimmer Still Being Tested

Aired July 05, 2010 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Here's what we're going to be getting into, among other things -- and this is important: We have been waiting for Arizona police officials to tell us exactly how they will enforce the law. We will break that down for you and you will see for yourself how police are saying the law will be enforced.

Here is what else we've got:

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making THE LIST on this day -- the long-awaited Arizona training tape is out and you are going to see it. How will the immigration law be enforced? Is it constitutional? Can the Obama administration block it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without a doubt, we are going to be accused of racial profiling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Will they? We'll ask police officials.

Three players teaming up to take over the NBA for years. Can Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh and LeBron James pull it off? Where will they go?

One Whale of an oil skimmer, promising to solve our Gulf problems. Wait. What? It may not work? The early reviews are in.

Which big-time college athletic director caught in a car with another woman and her panties on his lap --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAMON EVANS, UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA ATHLETIC DIRECTOR: What I say here is coming from the bottom of my heart. I'm an individual who made a grave, grave mistake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: His explanation and resignation on THE LIST.

The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who landed on the list you don't want to be on? Who's making news on Twitter?

It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news -- right now.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. We're going to be getting to all of that in just a little bit.

But, first this, for months we have been talking about oil in the Gulf and its really limited impact on Florida thus far, with the exception of parts of the Florida Panhandle. Here now, a potential bombshell which is being issued by NOAA -- not some scientist or some guy somewhere, no -- the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration. They say there is now a 61 -- are you with me here? A 61 percent to 80 percent chance that the oil in the Gulf will hit Miami -- that as you look at that right there. That's the oil going into the Gulf of Mexico.

Now, they've been talking about Miami, Fort Lauderdale and the Florida Keys.

Now, Chad and I, since we've been bringing you this story, we've been very careful right from the outset to not jump the gun, because we've seen some people in the media immediately report everything, oh, yes, it's going here, it's going there. And we've been very careful to tell you -- I believe, we've been very careful to tell you, here's where it is, here's in what capacity it is, here's the difference between a tar ball and a big --

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Mousse.

SANCHEZ: Mousse. Exactly. Between that and a lot of oil.

MYERS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Now, here comes NOAA, and they're saying, no, it's looking like there's a real good chance that this part of Florida will get that. Put this in perspective for us.

MYERS: Over a 15-year period, the weather service now has taken all their computer models and they said, if this, then what? They have put this oil spill in its current configuration into a 15- year random climatological model --

SANCHEZ: It sounds like atmospheric.

MYERS: You got me doing it.

And so, where is this logically going? What is it going to do? Is it going to get in the loop current? Remember, that was a rumor a long time ago.

SANCHEZ: Yes. That's what we originally posed the question.

MYERS: Kind of got there, but it wasn't enough to make any difference. Is a hurricane going to come and push it onshore? Possibly. If you look -- if you look, there's an 80 percent to 100 percent chance of it coming onshore between Louisiana and the western coast of Florida.

But if it gets in this loop current and it keeps mixing around in the Gulf of Mexico, where could it go next? Where should it go next? If we take a 15-year average of where water goes in general, that water goes to the Florida Keys.

SANCHEZ: Well, we're sitting here and looking at this thing right now spilling this oil in the bottom of the ocean. I don't think that's giving us the perspective we need. Do you have any kind of map that you could work it to show us --

MYERS: Yes.

SANCHEZ: -- what we're talking about? How the loop current plays into that part of Florida?

MYERS: Sure, a couple of.

SANCHEZ: Because what we're talking about really is what we in Florida called the Gulf Stream.

MYERS: It's the Gulf Stream after it comes out of the Gulf of Mexico.

SANCHEZ: Exactly.

MYERS: It is called the Loop Current when it's in the Gulf of Mexico.

And here's the map that everybody was all up in arms about today. This is the map of where the oil spill is right now and where the chance of 81 percent to 100 percent chance of the oil is going to be right through there. OK? It's already there.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MYERS: So, this is a good forecast. That's like saying hey, it's going to rain after it's already raining. We've already let the cat out of the bag here.

But the difference is -- and we haven't seen this number before -- is that this 61 percent to 80 percent that you've been talking about is now painted all along the Florida Keys all the way through Monroe County, up to Biscayne Bay and all the way up through Fort Lauderdale. That is because there is a Loop Current. It comes out of the Caribbean, it comes up into the Gulf of Mexico, it rotates around and then comes back out here as the Gulf Stream.

Now, the past couple of weeks, it's done this -- made a little turn and not made its way up here. And this oil up here has done a couple of loops, kind of spinning around up there and they've been skimming it off.

Now, Rick, this is going to eventually end and the Loop Current is going to connect itself back up again. This oil will be taken down into the Florida Keys again.

The forecast, though, is not for oil here. The forecast is for tar balls.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MYERS: Pick up the tar balls --

SANCHEZ: That's important.

MYERS: I've been on the beaches in Florida for years, there's tar balls all over the place.

SANCHEZ: Exactly.

MYERS: I don't know where they come from but they're there.

SANCHEZ: But they seem to be saying, in this case, there might be a more significant amount and we'll watch that.

MYERS: Of course. Right.

SANCHEZ: And we'll watch it.

MYERS: And we don't want that on the reef. We don't want that in the lobster areas and in the crab areas. I mean --

SANCHEZ: And to be fair, we don't want you saying, Rick Sanchez and Chad Myers say there's oil coming to the Keys, I'm canceling my Keys vacation.

MYERS: No.

SANCHEZ: Right now, there's nothing there and it's a great place to vacation.

MYERS: Absolutely.

SANCHEZ: All right. Just to be clear on that.

MYERS: All right.

SANCHEZ: There's another part of the story I want to get to now. We've also been telling you about these incredible clean-up efforts that are going to involve this giant oil skimmer that just got in. This thing is called the "A Whale." That's right.

The company that owns the converted cargo ship says it can actually go into the Gulf waters and separate the oil from the water and then collect it in these giant tanks. Well, that's the good news.

Here's the bad news. They went out and tested it this morning and basically, they found out that it's inconclusive as to whether or not it can do that. Part of that may be because the waters are just so darn choppy right now.

First of all, I want you to take a look at what this thing looks like because once they figure it all out to see fit works and if the Coast Guard signs off on it, that massive ship will start doing its thing, skimming about 21 million gallons of oil a day. We hope.

Here's Ed Lavandera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is quite a feat and quite an adventure.

So, now, we're on board a massive vessel called "A Whale." And this is a giant cargo ship that has been retrofitted to skim oil out in the Gulf of Mexico. This kind of technology -- retrofitting -- has never been done before. So, right now, the Coast Guard hasn't given the ship permission to go out and skim oil in the Gulf of Mexico.

We're on the navigation deck of this vessel. And from this perch, you can really get a sense of the magnitude of this ship. It is almost four football fields long, one football field wide. And as you look at those other massive ships out there on the water, they look small from this vantage point.

But underneath this massive deck that you see right here below us, underneath there is where the crucial work will take place, if indeed the technology aboard this vessel does work. Underneath there is where the containers and where the oil could be skimmed into is being held right now. So, we're going to go check that out.

Those slits that you see on the side of the ship are called the jaws. And that is the critical component that has been retrofitted to help this ship collect oil.

So, the oil is going to come through here into these valves and into a series of five tanks and that's the process of separating the oil from the water.

What you see here is called the jaws. Essentially when this ship gets the clearance to go out and start skimming oil, the oil will come in to here and then get brought into these valves and get processed where they will begin the process of separating the water from the oil.

Right now, the crew of this ship is waiting on final permission from the unified command to start skimming oil in the Gulf of Mexico.

There's a couple of issues that are being looked at right now: first of all, one of them is a safety issue, a ship this big out on the Gulf of Mexico needs about a half-mile radius all the way around to operate safely. They're trying to figure out if that's possible.

There's also some environmental concerns. Part of the way this ship works is it brings in oil and water. It separates that and the water gets thrown back out into the Gulf of Mexico and they keep the oil. They're also looking into whether or not that water that's going to be discharged, what are the environmental impact of that? So, that's one of the things slowing it down.

But everyone aboard here thinks it's just a matter of time before this vessel is put in to fight the oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RON PAUL (R), TEXAS: I came out in support of Chairman Steele because I think it was overkill. He made a casual comment. He wasn't setting policy and, all of a sudden, people jump on him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Michael Steele, did he slip up for the last time? Is it time for him to step down? That's ahead right here. That's on our political list.

Also, only 24 days to go until Arizona's new immigration law goes into effect. Now, what exactly does it say? Because the big question on this has been: well, how are they going to be able to enforce this? And can they enforce it without in some way violating someone's constitutional rights?

Well, they've put out a video explaining how they're going to do it. And I think we owe it to them, since there's been so much controversy on this, to let you see it for yourself. That's what we're going to do.

Stay right there. Your national conversation -- your list is coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: I'm reading over some of the e-mails that you guys sent over during the break -- not the e-mails, the tweets, pardon me. This one says, "Yes, RICK'S LIST is on. Now the news won't be boring." I like the fact that it's got a Chihuahua on that trip by the way. I'm not sure what that means, but I'll go along with it.

When the immigration bill was announced, we on this newscast, here on RICK'S LIST, covered it extensively. We -- some would argue we over-covered it. We questioned the wording about stopping anyone and that was changed. Remember? They changed the law and took out that part, the "stop" part.

We questioned, when the governor was said that police are going to come up with guidelines of what an "illegal" looks like, and then the police director backed off of what the governor said about that. He did so right here on this show -- backed off about that on this show when I said, here's what the governor says you're going to do. You're going to be able to do that? He said, no, we're not going to be able to do that.

All right. Now, today, state police are, for the very first time, describing what constitutes, quote, "reasonable suspicion" and how they're going to be able to do that -- come up with the, quote, "elements," stop quote, "of reasonable suspicion," stop quote, without profiling -- racially profiling someone. That's their task.

And finally, they've got a video out to show police officers how they're going to be able to do this. I think it's important that we all look at this. I looked at it today. It's -- my God -- it's about 30 to 40 minutes long. I looked at every single minute of it, carefully took notes and I wanted to prepare these segments.

And we've got about three or four different segments over the next couple of hours. Here's the first. Here's the part that teaches you how they're going to do this.

Hit it, Roge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, ARIZONA PEACE OFFICER STANDARDS AND TRAINING BOARD)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Remember, the determination of reasonable suspicion is yours to make, but you need to be able to articulate, you need to be able to state the specific facts and circumstances that lead you to the conclusion that the person -- this person in front of you -- is or may be unlawfully present in the United States. Critical -- as I said at the outset of my comments today -- critical to that determination is your reporting on that determination, not only do you need to make the determination, you need to make sure that when you write up your report, that you include all of those facts and circumstances in the determination. Once you've made that assessment, 1051 requires you then, if you believe a person -- you have reasonable suspicion to believe a person is here unlawfully, then to contact ICE, border patrol or a 287(g) certified officer in order to find out whether or not that individual is in the United States unlawfully.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: And, by the way, we went through this carefully and we came up with the things that they suggest. They call these the elements of suspicion. Some of them are pretty obvious and they pretty much say, yes, you're right. I mean, lack of identification. If someone doesn't have an identification, you better -- I think you're in the right to ask them whether or not they're in this country illegally. If someone has -- if someone runs away, a police officer looks at them and as soon as they make eye contact with the police officer, they start running, you know what? I think you have a right to ask them if they're in the country illegally.

But look at some of these others that we're going to be talking about with our guest in just a little it. If you see people traveling in tandem -- that would be like every teenage girl at every mall in the United States, right? See people in a vehicle that's overcrowded. Their dress, the way they're dressed. Difficulty speaking English well.

And these are some of the ones that are probably going to be tested. I'm not a lawyer. So we're going to try to get as many people to talk about this as we possibly can as we cover this story for you in depth from both sides.

Now, coming up in just a little bit, I will talk with an Arizona law enforcement veteran about the legal advice in this new training video and the controversial law and what it means to all of us in this country.

Meanwhile, did you hear about this? Drew mentioned it just a little while ago. The Lockerbie bomber was let out of prison because his doctor gave him three months to live. We covered that extensively here, saw it while it was happening.

Now we're hearing, he could still have at least another 10 years to go. So, why did they let him out? He wasn't on the verge of dying. He wasn't on his deathbed. That's ahead on THE LIST.

And Michael Steele talking about the Afghanistan war and blaming it on the president. Did he go too far? Well, that's what some in the Republican Party are saying. Jessica Yellin is going to drill down on this for us in just a little bit.

There she is. By golly, nothing can keep her from RICK'S LIST. And she's on at 7:00 tonight. I want everyone to watch at 7:00 p.m. tonight, all right? "JOHN KING, USA" -- because Jessica Yellin is going to do it.

We'll be right back with RICK'S LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Before the rest of the world jumped on the Michael Steele story, you heard about it where? Right here.

This is the first thing that we showed you Friday. The GOP chairman saying that Afghanistan isn't America's war, it's Obama's war. Which was, in essence -- you see him right there saying it, right -- in essence what he was doing was he was taking like 180- degree turn from his party's position, which says that Afghanistan is a must-win.

We left here wondering whether Steele would lose his job because some very highfalutin conservative commentators came out calling for his head. That was Friday. Fast-forward to Sunday -- here's Senator John McCain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I'm a Ronald Reagan Republican. I believe we have to win here. I believe in freedom.

But the fact is, I think that Mr. Steele is going to have to assess as to whether he can still lead the Republican Party as chairman of the Republican National Committee and make an appropriate decision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: So, he essentially is saying it's up to Michael Steele. So Michael Steele jumps off of the Afghanistan ship and John McCain basically says, well, he can stay or he can go, it's his choice. Well, if it's Steele's choice, my money is he's going to stay, just guessing.

Jessica Yellin, am I right?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think at this one, Rick, you're right. Michael Steele keeps on hanging on. If there's anything we've learned from all these Steele flap, it's that.

I didn't have to look at this one up, Rick, because we've done the story so many times -- to get Steele to be forced out, you need a two-thirds vote of the Republican National Committee. That's what it would take to boot him. That's a high threshold. And expectations with him are so low, it's happened over congressional recess, he's probably safe.

SANCHEZ: Lindsey Graham, Jimmy DeMint (ph) -- not Jimmy DeMint, but Jim DeMint, I don't know where I got that, they both commented this weekend, too. I'm glad I'm amusing you today. Here we go. Let's take a listen and then we'll talk about it on the other side, Jessica.

YELLIN: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: This is not President Obama's war. This is America's war.

SEN. JIM DEMINT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: This is America's war. It's not Obama's war. Whether or not he resigns is up to other people than me, but I need to see him focused on this November election.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

SANCHEZ: I mean, they're criticizing his words but they're not criticizing him.

YELLIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: And what one begins to wonder, what it is -- does Michael Steele got something on these guys? Does he got pictures or something? I mean, these are elected officials who are afraid to turn on Michael Steele? Why is that?

YELLIN: You know, I don't think they're afraid to turn on him in the way you might be suggesting. They're not, for example, shying away from causing offense, especially John McCain. He doesn't mind tweaking folks occasionally, as we know.

But the general sense in the party here is that they don't need the distraction right now. Picking a fight with Michael Steele is merely a distraction at a time when they really want to focus on the midterm elections and retake the Senate and the House.

So, why pick a fight in the party when the fight they really want to be having is with Democrats? So, this is just an example of being disciplined, I think.

SANCHEZ: So, Michael Steele is going to make it to the midterms, he'll be there --

YELLIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: -- through the midterms, you believe?

YELLIN: That's my bet. He would have to resign if he were going to go -- and what are the chances he resigns?

SANCHEZ: By the way, I got a program note for you. Two actually.

One, coming up in a little while, we are going to show you the best of Michael Steele. Our own Josh Levs has collected all the famous flubs, comments, whatever, that Michael Steele has made -- some of them have been criticized by sides and we're going to literally list them for you. You're going to be able to hear them..

And then I want to let you know that there's a great program on tonight. Jessica Yellin is going to be filling in for John King on "JOHN KING, USA." And I would love for everyone out there to watch here, because I'm a big fan and I believe you will be, too, after you tune in.

How's that?

YELLIN: Thank you, Rick. Thank you. We'll have a good show, too. We have Ron Paul on tonight.

SANCHEZ: Oh, you do?

YELLIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: And he says Michael Steele is right.

YELLIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: That's interesting.

YELLIN: Keep him in the party.

SANCHEZ: That will be good. Thanks so much.

All right. Take a look at this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they've been lack in their safety. To me, it even seems that they don't have competent help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: BP in the spotlight again. We're going to tell you why a widow from Alaska is suing them. This doesn't have as much to do with the Gulf but in many ways it does. It goes to show how, in this particular instance, personalized to one human being, BP failed to deal with the family correctly in just that situation.

Also, a doctor is sparking fury across the globe. Why? Would you believe that he gave somebody three months to live and now it could be 10 years? Well, the guy was let out of prison for murdering something like 200 people.

We're going to take you through this. He's the most intriguing person in the news today and we're going to tell you who he is.

Stay right there. This is your list, your national conversation. I'm Rick Sanchez and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: We are all over this story that essentially describes for the first time for all Americans how the Arizona immigration law is going to be enforced. You know, there's been a lot of questions about: is it constitutional? Is it profiling? Is it fair?

Well, many of you are commenting on this on this day. And I want to share with our viewers what some of you have to say. Essentially, it says that you can look at dress and difficulty of speaking English as elements. So look at this. This is from somebody who treated me just moments ago saying, "Hey, what does an illegal immigrant from Canada look like?" It's a question.

Here's another one. This one came in just moments ago as well, about a minute ago, regarding Arizona law, "Since a person's accent may be used against him, shouldn't he refuse to speak and remain silent?" It's another interesting question. Will people all in Arizona say they just won't answer any police officers' questions anymore?

These are the -- these are the interesting, intricate questions that come into place here that we're going to -- that everybody in the country should be having conversations about. And we will as well.

Time to check the list now, the intriguing people in the news on this day.

(MUSIC)

SANCHEZ: This man has a red face. He says he is embarrassed. Why? He's a doctor in the United Kingdom. And what he told authorities in Scotland last year allowed this to happen.

Show it, Rog.

There you go. That's a piece of video that we covered -- I mean, we had that right here when it happened. That's the only man ever convicted of the Pan Am bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland, blew people out of the sky and he's a free man in Libya today, released on compassionate ground from prison because our most intriguing person because he said Abdel Basset al-Megrahi would be dead of cancer in three months.

So, when he got of prison, they told us he had only three months to live. Well, he's not dead of cancer, still alive and well. And might be with us for many, many, many years.

There he is, Dr. Karol Sikora. Yes, it turns out he was paid by the Libyan government for that professional medical opinion that sent a convicted airline bomber free. His professional opinion was way off.

Our professional opinion, that Karol Sikora, this doctor, is many things, among them, the most intriguing person in the news on this day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CHAVEZ, PRESIDENT, ARIZONA HIGHWAY PATROL ASSOCIATION: I think if officers continue to do the job, to do the professional job that they're hired to do, I don't think racial profiling will be an issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: It won't be an issue if they do their jobs correctly. Twenty four days until Arizona's tough immigration law actually goes into effect. So how will the law work?

We're going to take you through it. We're going to tell you what police officials are telling police officers that they should do and what they should not do. We'll take you through it.

Also this -- plungers, chickens and the American flag. What do they all have in common? It's a very special "Fotos" coming your way. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is your national conversation. We call it "Rick's List." Independence Day in the United States of America, your family has its traditions. My family has its traditions, but none of them look anything like this.

Fourth of July weirdness folks on today "Fotos Del Dia." (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): First, (inaudible) out of jail and they're lucky he didn't eat his way out. That is world champion caliber trumping machine, (Takero Kobayashi). They call him the (Tsunami) because such a (raucous) at the Annual (Nathan's) Hotdog eating contest in (inaudible) that he got locked up.

He wasn't even in the contest this year, but he was actually barred after some kind of disagreement with organizers. The man takes his eating seriously. He's got to go to court next month. By the way, the winner, he ate 54 hotdogs, in 10 minutes, he ate 54 hotdogs. Not bad?

Next, Colorado, near Denver. Serious holiday competition here. They're tossing chickens, people. Watch. You heard me. They're tossing chickens. You load the chicken launcher, you count it down and then fire. Farthest chicken wins. I don't know what they win, we're not sure. Mostly glory against the guy who runs the chicken toss says in 25 years, not a single bird has ever gotten hurt. Got to believe him.

And nothing pays tribute to our founding fathers like "Zombies." They certainly did filled the streets of Seattle this weekend. They stomped around and did a zombie-type of thing like eating brains and dancing to "Thriller." Red, white and dead, an attempt to break the British record for biggest gathering of zombies in one spot. Go to my blog and see the rest of these anytime you want. The silly stuff is "Fotos Del Dia." My blog is cnn.com/ricksanchez.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Time has, in fact, made the task of the United Nations more difficult than it seemed when the terms of the charter were agreed at San Francisco 12 years ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: That is archive video. The queen of England is going to be making a return to the United Nations more than 50 years later. It's a historic trip that we're going to take you through. In fact, tomorrow, you'll see it right here live on TV, as they say.

On the talking box, and this man was killed in Alaska. He was working for BP. Now, this is interesting because this ties into what's going on in the Gulf of Mexico. The question is -- and you'll hear the story from his own family.

The question is, how can he be killed by a car that he got out of if the car was in drive? How do you get out of a car that's moving, get out of it and be killed by it? That's question being asked of BP. His wife says it's a cover-up. We'll take you through it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: There's the situation you see behind me in the Gulf of Mexico. And then there are past situations involving BP, like how can they say that a man was killed in a car that was left in drive? If the car is in drive, then it tends to be moving, right?

If a car's moving, how do you run out of that car while it's still moving, then run out in front of it and get hit by it? I mean, as I watch this report by our own Allan Chernoff, I was asking myself, the explanation doesn't make sense to me. But that's what the family of the deceased is arguing as well. You take a look at it, you tell me what you think. Here's Allan Chernoff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Oil worker Michael Phelan, father of three, was killed last November at BP's Prudhoe Bay, Alaskan oil operations when his pick-up truck pinned him against a pipeline he was inspecting.

This was a tragic accident, BP told CNN, our hearts and thoughts at the time, and since, are with Mike's Phelan's family and friends. But Diane Phelan says she hasn't felt any compassion from BP.

DIANE PHELAN, WIDOW OF BP SUBCONTRACTOR: I would say that they've been callous. I think they've been lack in their safety. To me, it even seems that they don't have confident help.

CHERNOFF: Phelan was an employee of BP subcontractor (Mistras) group, which provided employees to work under BP control. His family says Michael was very safety conscious, as illustrated in this video he sent home from the BP worksite.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make sure you use the handrail when you go up the steps.

PHELAN: It didn't make sense as to what they were telling us happened. My husband's been in the oil refinery business for over 35 years. He's received numerous safety rewards.

CHERNOFF: The truck that killed Phelan was found in drive and BP's investigation report laid the blame for the accident squarely on Phelan. An inadvertent decision error or memory error allowed the running vehicle to be left in drive, exiting the running vehicle was done without conscious thought. The Phelan family was stunned.

MICHAEL C. PHELAN, SON OF BP SUBCONTRACTOR: If you just turn around and disgrace him like that, it's very heartening, it angers people. I'm at a loss for words on it actually. I don't even know that's how angry I am.

CHERNOFF: How could a man be hit by his own truck after he'd stopped it and gotten out? A sudden unintended acceleration would have been most likely in high four-wheel-drive mode. But a BP investigator found the vehicle in four-wheel-drive low position. The BP report concluded, Mr. Phelan was probably operating his vehicle in four-wheel-drive high after investigators made the assumption that first responders entering the vehicle may have brushed the four-wheel drive shifter to move it from high into low.

And Phelan's family says there are other disturbing things in the report. The emergency kit first responders used had no oxygen mask. A bag valve mask was not available in the medical oxygen response kit, says the report. Though there's no evidence that would have saved Phelan's life.

MICHAEL PHELAN: Not having an oxygen mask for somebody if they went down, I just can't even explain it.

JOHN PHELAN, SON OF BP SUBCONTRACTOR: It seems to me, they do whatever they can to cut corners and to make the most money. They don't care about the employees that are working for them.

CHERNOFF: (Mistras) group flew John and Michael C. to Alaska to retrieve their father's body. The sons say BP wouldn't even tell them who found their father and they say the company allowed them only 15 minutes to speak with their dad's co-workers who were on the scene before they were flown out.

MICHAEL PHELAN: We only had limited time with them. We had to be really quick with it.

DIANNE PHELAN: Still to this day, we've absolutely had no contact from BP whatsoever. They've never even called and said anything to the family.

CHERNOFF: BP tells CNN its investigation was thorough and it cooperated fully with Alaska's Occupational Safety and Health Office. (Mistras) group says Michael Phelan's death was a tragic accident and our condolences go out to the Phelan family. Allan Chernoff, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: And of course, one of the big stories that we're following for you on this day, 24 days until Arizona's new immigration law goes into effect. But now we have the list of what they're talking about when it comes to what they can do to enforce this, what questions can they ask? What are they allowed to do?

For example, can they go by the way someone is dressed when determining whether they might think that they're illegal and they're going to ask them for identification? I'll answer that question. It's all in here. You know who's going to join me?

A guy who knows as much about Arizona as anybody else we know out there. He's been working in Arizona for years and years. Veteran former sergeant with the Phoenix Police Department, Andy Hill, is going to be with us in just a little bit.

He's going to help take us through this as well. This is "Rick's List." next block will also be "Andy's list." and we'll have it for you in just a little bit. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: OK, here we go. This is the story that I think many of you have been wanting us to get to. It's the top of the list. This is a video that's produced by Arizona Peace Officers Standard and Training Board, essentially the police board for Arizona, the guys who help police officers do their jobs.

The video is meant to train them on how to enforce Arizona's controversial new immigration law. Now, here's the video.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEVERLY GINN, ATTORNEY: Here's our suggestion, our recommendation to you. When you make a stop, you have someone in your custody, you have an investigative detention, perhaps you've gotten to the point of probable cause and you've made an arrest.

The first thing you do as a matter of routine is ask for identification. That's pretty much what we do in all circumstances. Not all circumstances is a person required to give you identification. But in most circumstances, that's going to be your first question.

If a person gives you identification that meets the presumptive identification under this statute -- I'll talk about what presumptive ideas in just a minute -- that's the end of your inquiry with regard to whether or not the person is unlawfully in the United States.

If a person gives you an Arizona driver's license, an Arizona non-operating identification card, tribal identification or any other identification that comes from a governmental entity that requires proof of legal presence before they issue in the United States, before they issue the id, that person has given you presumptive identification and that resolves the question or whether or not the person is in the country unlawfully.

The person doesn't provide you with that identification, if they say they don't have any identification, if you have some reason to believe in the absence of that identification, talk about the kinds of things that might alert you to the question of whether or not the person is unlawfully present.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: The tough part, though -- and I think my next guest is going to agree with me because he's done this and his department has had to deal with this immigration law, veteran Police Officer Andy Hill joins me now. He was a sergeant with the Phoenix Police Department for many years.

He and I've worked on a lot of different Arizona-related stories in the past. I can tell you, this guy is a straight-up dude. He's worked a lot of these cases, done so very well. That's why I've asked him to be on the show now.

You know this is controversial. Andy, I guess part of it is, sure, if you ask a person for an id and they can't show you an id, you have reason to suspect that they may be illegal. But why would you be asking that person for an id in the first place -- that's where it gets tricky. Why do you ask that guy for an id but you don't ask that woman over there for an id?

ANDY HILL, RETIRED SERGEANT, PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT: It's a great question. It's nothing that police officers deal with all the time. Any stop is going to be for one or three reason either it's a consensual contact, or there's going to be a suspicion, which is an investigative type situation or an arrest or detention.

This law and now the policies that everyone is going to have to enact are going to deal only with the investigative and arrest detention side of things. Unlike anything else in law enforcement, what you have to do is there has got to be a totality of circumstance that is justify what you're doing.

SANCHEZ: OK, all right, let's talk about that totality. I went through this today and very carefully with pen and pencil jotted down what I thought made sense. I'm not an expert, but I think I think like the next guy down the street.

So let me show two lists we made. This is what I thought was legit list. Do we have those? They ask for -- there's a lack of identification. You could use that as a presumption. Possession of foreign identification. Obviously if you're checking a guy out and all he has an id from another country, you might have reason to suspect they're not here legally.

Flight or preparation of flight. We get that, Andy. That means you look at somebody and they start running from you. Voluntary admission. Being evasive in the vehicle or on foot. Again, they look like they're hiding something from you.

Claim of not knowing others in the same location, demeanor, nervousness, OK. But here we come to the ones that I think you tell me, Andy, let's make the next list now. This is what I believe is the questionable list. They might have a tougher time with this constitutionally. You tell me.

Someone because they're in the company of illegal aliens, in other words, if you, Andy, are in the company of illegal aliens, I as a police officer am more apt to make a determination you might be here illegally. Let me continue. The location. If they see you in an area where illegals are known to congregate.

If you see people traveling in a tandem, in other words together and people traveling in a group, this is all from the law. This is all from what I read today. People in a vehicle that's over crowded. People who can't provide an address. People who are dressed in such a way that lets the officer or makes the officer think they're here illegally. Or a person who has difficulty speaking English. Do you not agree with me that those that I just read right now might not meet a constitutional threshold? HILL: Absolutely. But the video makes it very clear and so does law especially court law that some of those by themselves may be enough reasonable suspicion. However, most of those require, again, the totality of the circumstances. You have to put them all together.

The ones that can stand by themselves certainly can have nothing to do with race, color, country of origination, ethnicity, none of those factors by themselves. However, when you look at some of them you're going to have to put the others together.

And that's where you're going to be dependent on police officers by their experience, by their training, by their understanding of the law, which is going to be observed, which is going to be scrutinized and tested in court that it's got to be right.

SANCHE: You know, if he puts anywhere down there that one of his determinations was based on what says that you're allowed to make determinations on in this law, if you put down dress or difficulty speaking English, dang it to hell you know you're going to be challenged on that, Andy.

HILL: Right, but you have to have them all together, Rick and you've got to document it. I agree with you, individually I wouldn't say that at all. My parents could have been stopped like that. Any of us.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Mine, too. Their English is, well, not so good looking as they say. Can you stick around? I want to bring you back. I think this is a really important story. I know we were only going to do one segment with you. Can we do another one?

HILL: Yes. Absolutely. It's a great topic and I'm glad we're all looking at it finally.

SANCHEZ: I agree. This is something the entire country should be having this conversation. Hang tight. We'll pick you up again in five or 10 minutes.

Meanwhile could a trifecta of superstars be coming to a basketball team near you and what would the decision mean to the rest of the NBA? This is fascinating. Have you been seeing this story about Lebron James and Dwayne Wade, et cetera?

Also, would you be surprised to learn that instead of living in a house you are living in a former shipping container that was floated all over the world? That's next. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Shipping containers from all over the world are now being lived in? How in the world can that work? Here's Reynolds Wolf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An estimated 18 million shipping containers are being used to carry products around the world, but because the U.S. imports more than it exports, many of those containers end up gathering dust.

David cross was a merchant Marine when he thought of using shipping containers as a building material. Having seen the containers weather storms at sea, he teamed up with Engineer Steven Armstrong to form the business SG Blocks.

STEVEN ARMSTRONG, SG BLOCKS: There's no question they're strong. The loading conditions they see are incredibly greater that they'll ever see in a static environment even hurricane or earthquake type forces.

WOLF (on camera): Not all of these are in pristine condition. Some of these have a little bit of wear and tear, but the idea is to fix them up and some day this structure could be a house.

(voice-over): Reusing containers is often faster and cheaper than starting from scratch making homes more affordable than the traditional construction. The company built its first home in South Carolina.

(on camera): Is it kind of weird, you live in a house that was once containers that have been all over the world? Part of your house has been in China.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's nice. That's as close as I get to the Great Wall of China.

WOLF (voice-over): According to Cross it takes 95 percent less energy to repurpose containers than it does to melt them down. The movement is spreading. With containers being used in designs all over the world, and Cross is happy to play along.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My children tell their friends at school their father works with the biggest Legos in the world.

WOLF: Reynolds Wolf, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meet Pamela Gorman, candidate for Congress in Arizona 3. Conservative Christian and a pretty fair shot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: These are some of the political ads that are popping up all over the country. They are looking tough because they want a certain populace to vote for them. We'll tell you what it's all about this thing going viral that's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: There are so many of you right now who are watching us in Germany, in South Korea, in Afghanistan, in Iraq and that makes us feel good --