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Rick's List
Lindsay Lohan Sentenced; Obama Administration Takes on Arizona
Aired July 07, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I mean, where's the duck boat that had these 30-some people on board? What happened to it? Why haven't we seen it in any of these pictures? Or have we?
SARAH HOYE, CNN ALL PLATFORM CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hey, Rick.
You know, that's a good question. I do not see it. And there is another duck boat that is on the water, but we're getting mixed messages here that that may have been the same boat or a different one.
Now, I did speak with a witness, a Norman Savara (ph), who was here on his day off just at the river, watched the duck boating by. And he said it hit to be what looked to be like a sandbar. It went down a little bit and then went down fast. He said he heard a lot of people screaming, calling for help.
SANCHEZ: So, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you just say went down fast? You mean the boat sank?
HOYE: Correct.
SANCHEZ: Oh, he is saying the boat -- so the reason we're not seeing the boat is because the boat is no longer there. It's under -- it's at the bottom of the channel, the Delaware River.
HOYE: And this could be. I do not have that confirmed with officials, but this witness did say the boat went down and the boat went down fast.
SANCHEZ: Oh, my goodness. So, the boat did in fact sink. And you're saying that the boat looked like -- this witness says it looked like it hit a sandbar of some form, rather than a barge?
HOYE: Correct.
There is a barge here on the water, which I'm sure you saw in some of your aerials before. And this witness like I said as he described to me was he did not see it hit the barge. He said it seemed to have getting -- got stuck on some type of sandbar and that is what snagged it up, and then it went down a little and then went down fast.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
HOYE: He said he did hear the people screaming, too. SANCHEZ: He could hear the -- well, what -- so most of the people, then, when it made that impact, it's almost like, you know, suppose you're going 20 miles an hour or something like that and you just hit like a brick wall. The barge, when it hits the sandbar, it all but comes to a complete stop.
The people, obviously, momentum keeps them moving forward, so they would have been what, thrown forward? Is that what he is describing?
HOYE: That's kind of maybe what he saw, but he's not necessarily seeing where the people went. He just knows that it started to go fast, and it shocked him. It was kind of watching something that is very surreal, almost like a train wreck. You can't believe what's in front of your eyes.
So, when he saw that, he wanted to jump into the water and help, but was told to stay -- stay onshore. He did say the response time was very, very well, that people were here very quickly in terms of rescue crews. They're still here on the scene combing this area of the river up and down, helicopters, some rescue boats. So, they're getting a lot of traffic here.
SANCHEZ: Is there any way you might be able to get a hold of him and see if you can put him on the phone, so he can talk? I would love to talk to that fellow who says he watched this thing happen to get a description of what happened after the boat hit the -- hit the sandbar.
HOYE: Yes, we can work on that, Rick.
SANCHEZ: I appreciate that.
So, one more question for you, Sarah. After the boat hits the sandbar, does he say that he saw the people in the water, because, once the boat submerged, then the people started popping up?
HOYE: Yes. The people started getting into the water because they needed help apparently to get out. And what he did also note was that there were a number of life jackets hanging from the top of the boat. Not everybody was wearing a life jacket, he said. This is once again coming from our witness, Norman Savara (ph).
SANCHEZ: Yes.
HOYE: I do not have that confirmed with authorities. But that is what he saw.
SANCHEZ: Well, you know, I -- I -- I do a lot of boating myself, and I know that if you're an adult you do not have to be wearing a life jacket when you're on a vessel like that. Only children are by law mandated to wear them.
So, if this thing happened as fast as you say it happened, then it's unlikely they would have had time. Back me up on this, if you would, Chad. It's unlikely they would have had time to put the life jackets on, right?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, what strikes me -- true. What strikes me is that this man was close enough to see those life jackets hanging. So, this isn't some guy who was in Delaware looking across the river at 300 yards who saw some boat sink.
He was close enough to literally see these orange life jackets hanging from the top. And that's where they are. They are typically on a string. You know, there's a rope going across, some kind of line up there and you can pull them down if you need them.
Well, if it goes down as fast as he described -- that's why that one person you saw being rescued didn't have one on, because they didn't have time to grab one.
SANCHEZ: Did you hear what Sarah just said, though? He is describing a boat, the duck boat, the amphibious vessel used to shepherd tourists around, sank. It's gone.
MYERS: Yes. Well, and if it truly did hit something, this is kind of a metal hull, a steel hull thing here. And that's what it looks like. There's one right there.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MYERS: We don't know that that's the one or not.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: No, we -- no, it's not.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I think Angie was is apparently what happens in situations -- there's not only one duck boat in Philadelphia. There's many of them.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: In fact they run every 15 minutes or something like that. And oftentimes they will all go there to the scene to see if they can help in any way.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That's what one of them looks like right there.
MYERS: And you have to realize these vessels are 50 years old. So is the hull, right?
SANCHEZ: yes.
MYERS: You take them out. They pull them out. They redo the hulls every once in a while, but if you hit something with a metal hull, you could clearly put a big old gash in the bottom of that boat and that boat won't take long to go down at all. SANCHEZ: And you start to wonder, as well, if it hit a sandbar, then the people who were near the boat, if they were on the correct side of the boat, could have been fine just by hanging on at the sand bar. Because, if it's a sand bar, that means it's shallow enough for them to stand up there and then be rescued, which may be the case.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: I appreciate his description of the sandbar, but it could have been something much harder than that.
SANCHEZ: Sure.
MYERS: It could have been something very hard, a hard bottom that this thing could have hit.
SANCHEZ: Good point. And, oftentimes, one man -- one witness' description does not a full accounting make.
All right, stand by.
MYERS: Working on it.
SANCHEZ: This is one -- this is one of the big stories that we're going to follow for you. As you can see, Sarah has been working it for us, as well as some of our producers there on the scene. It is just one of the stories that we're going to follow on this day. Also, this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making the LIST on this day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just the eyes and the ears. That's the big deal. We're just trying to help the Border Patrol.
SANCHEZ: Drilling down from the border, as the Arizona immigration controversy heats up.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Laws like Arizona's put huge pressures on local law enforcement to enforce rules that ultimately are unenforceable.
SANCHEZ: The Obama administration sues Arizona. Arizona details their plan, and we're all over it.
(on camera): Do you work for the CIA?
MANUEL NORIEGA, FORMER PANAMANIAN DICTATOR (through translator): I did not work. I wasn't an employee.
SANCHEZ: And my interview with Manuel Noriega revisited as his fate is announced.
Lindsay Lohan is going to jail. Yes, you will see the best of or should I say worst of her court appearance. The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's landed on the list you don't want to be on? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list.
Pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, I want to show you some pictures now.
Welcome back. This is RICK'S LIST.
These are some of the pictures that we have just now been getting in from WPVI. These are some of the folks who were taken out of the water and rescued. Let's go through these as fast as we possibly can. We're getting them now from WPVI.
We're showing them right there off what is the -- their Web site. There you see part -- oh, these -- you notice they're all coming off of what appear to be different vessels, and that's because it seemed like many of the vessels there in the water converged and just started saving as many people as they possibly could.
But it wasn't just one vessel. And they were all taken over to the seashore there or the river shore, where they were taken off and then treated. They had a triage set up there as well to give people the medical care that was necessary.
Thirty-five people thrown overboard, when it appears, at least according to one witness that we have spoken to, the boat hit something. We heard first a barge. Then we have heard by a witness that it may have been a sandbar. But all the people ended up in the water and that one witness is telling us the boat actually sank, that this amphibious tourist duck/truck has sank in the water, and that everybody went overboard and that in fact only -- all but two have been accounted for. All but two have been accounted for.
Back to the other story that we're following on this day, immigration.
Maybe no conversation has been as heated as this one involving one of the men who actually wrote the Arizona law, Senator Russell Pearce.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSSELL PEARCE (R), ARIZONA STATE SENATOR: Sixty percent of the Hispanics support it in Arizona. You know, enough is enough. I mean, I get tired of the controversial comments. This is the most popular bill in America. America supports it. Overwhelmingly, they support it.
ISABEL GARCIA, HUMAN RIGHTS COALITION: It is preposterous that he would argue that the federal government doesn't have exclusive jurisdiction on this very complicated area of law.
Certainly, Arizona cannot simply regulate immigration. And he is trying to regulate immigration. As much as he tries to hide it over and over, he knows full well that they have created a new offense of not having your documents with you. And the issue of racial profiling, that he can just wipe it away so easy, well, it's because you're a white person, Mr. Pearce, that you don't have any qualms about racial -- racial profiling at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You know, it's funny. I wanted to watch -- I wanted to show that conversation because Dan Stein a little while ago -- we were having a conversation. I want to bring Dan back now, because it's interesting.
That conversation that you just saw right there, which was more about accusing the other guy of this or that, you're a white person, so obviously you have no sense or understanding of what happens or what this story is really about, or, from the other side, Mr. Pearce, you know, saying, everybody in America loves this new thing.
You know, would you not -- would you not agree that once it gets personal, you lose the sense of what can be a fair argument, FAIR?
(LAUGHTER)
DAN STEIN, PRESIDENT, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: Well, look, I mean, political debate, mudslinging, it's a national pastime.
And immigration politics are very unusual. They do not generally tend along -- or didn't used to, anyway -- along party lines or ideology. You have environmentalists who think we need to limit immigration numbers because we don't need to grow our population rapidly.
It affects everything from energy independence to, you know, wilderness preservation. And you have law-and-order conservatives. What's -- the polarization of this issue has come about over a period of time. The Democrats used to have a strong labor protection, hardworking American, family protection component, the NAACP, AFL-CIO that supported strong immigration controls.
That's all disappeared. Republicans still do have a libertarian business wing that sees immigration as a way to, frankly, subsidize labor. The taxpayers pay the costs.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And they do.
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: ... immigration as subsidized labor.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And you and I...
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: And they neutralize both sides of the spectrum.
SANCHEZ: And you and I both know, because you have seen the stories -- and you and I have been talking about this for a long time -- there are companies in the United States who not only go after some of these people to come to this country and work who they know are not documented. They recruit them.
They literally will go out and recruit them, because they need to fill positions in their plants or their factories, and it seems like the government...
STEIN: No doubt.
SANCHEZ: ... then gives them a pass by giving them this card that is equal to having a U.S. citizenship card that then allows them to work. So, you have the government in collusion, it seems, with corporations who are bringing these folks over here. And that may be where the essence of the problem begins, is it not?
STEIN: Well, but I think that's -- I think that's what makes FAIR's role so unique in this debate. We are not advanced politically or economically by mass immigration or by a curtailment of immigration.
When I -- you know, I know Russell Pearce, tremendous guy, tremendous respect. I congratulate him on his leadership. But when I listen to the debate between the two, what I hear are two people arguing. One says, I want to enforce immigration laws, and Isabel Garcia saying, I don't want the immigration laws enforced.
And because -- because no one is willing to just come clean on the reality of what the agenda is, we're seeing a polarization emerging now where frankly too many political people in the Democratic Party are more interested in the demographic shifts brought on by immigration in enfranchising and empowering the party over its true impacts on the American people.
And Republicans still have, you know, their internal issues to work out with handling the -- what I think are very irresponsible policies of the Chamber of Commerce over the years. You know, and FAIR is caught in the middle. We get fired at by everybody on all sides.
And I will tell you, if I don't get up -- if I get up in the morning every day, if somebody is not attacking me, I'm thinking, I'm not doing the job.
SANCHEZ: Well, there you go. there you go. Now you know what it's like for some of us who try and look at things as objectively as we possibly can. Dan, we will get you back. We will continue having these conversations. Thanks for being with us. We appreciate it.
STEIN: Always a pleasure. Thanks.
SANCHEZ: By the way, new pictures are coming in now from this story that we're bouncing back and forth on.
Look at some of the victims now of this collision at -- on the Delaware River off the shores of Philadelphia there. You will see a series of pictures. You will see people inside. There are some closeups here as well. You can see the -- the -- the panicked look of some of these folks that thought they were -- they were just going out for a cruise on the river when suddenly the boat they were on sank.
Look at the expression on her face. What in the world is going on? She was apparently plucked out of the water. As you can tell, all of these folks are soaking wet. They had just been taken out of the waters there. Thank goodness it's summer, and we happened to be going through a heat wave, or it would have obviously been much worse, with potential hypothermia.
But in this case the report that we're getting right now for those of you joining us is that there were some 35 people who were on the boat and the boat sank. It looks like that officer is having a conversation with one of the victims now, but she or he is still sitting. And he's telling them, just kind of remain there. Stay where you are.
Thirty-five people thrown into the water -- 35 or so. At least two are still unaccounted for. And these are very -- these are brand- new pictures we're just now getting in of -- of the folks as they are getting taken out of the water and taken over to a triage center, or at least given a new area to be where they won't be -- where they won't still be in the water.
And, you know, I was noticing -- I was noticing this a little while ago. As you look at this, there are so many vessels involved. It seems like every time we see people taken out, they're on different -- different vessels.
This once again is right off the coast -- or right off the shores I should say of the city of Philadelphia on the Delaware River, where one of those amphibious boats used for tourism purposes that take people on tours of the city, they go on land and then they go off on the river as well. That's why they're called amphibious vessels.
Some of them date back to WWII. There you see a gurney with someone being taken out that may have been hurt worse than the others. And there you see what one of those duck boats looks like. That's not the one in question.
We are told now, at least by one witness -- we're hoping to get this confirmed by police officials, but we're told by at least one witness that the actual vessel in question here, the vessel where the accident occurred, has sank. And we're told it sank very fast, almost immediately after hitting something described by a witness as sandbar, described originally by a police official as a barge.
We don't know. As we get the information, we will bring it to you. Let's get a break in here, and we're going to be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We call our show the LIST. And obviously we do something every day that's also called the roundup list, where we bring all the stories together and bring them and number them here.
Number one. Remember this terror arrest last September in Colorado? That's Najibullah Zazi. He's already pleaded guilty to charges that he plotted to bomb targets in New York City. Now a handful of others, all suspected members of al Qaeda, were named in a Justice Department indictment today, alleging they planned to set off bombs in New York City and the United Kingdom.
One of those names allegedly recruited Zazi and was running the operation from Pakistan.
OK. Here's number two. Look at this ugly scene. Crude oil from the leaking BP well has now made its way into the passes that feed Lake Pontchartrain near New Orleans. So that's how it's getting there. We shot this video yesterday when Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal toured the New Orleans area, gauging just how far inland the oil has reached. Well, if it's on Lake -- if it's on Lake Pontchartrain, it's reached pretty far. No definitive word yet on what impact this far-traveled oil will have on the lake itself.
And then the word sweltering is being used an awful lot along the Northeast. There's really no other word for it, another day for triple-digit temperatures from D.C. to New York, the metro area. Heat advisories are in effect in Philadelphia and Trenton, New Jersey. The heat is blamed for at least one death in Baltimore, a woman found in her home while temperatures outside soared to more than 100 degrees.
And Germany and Spain have just concluded their match. Everybody's talking about the World Cup, so let me bring you this piece of information. The winner is Spain. Spain has just beaten Germany. Have we got some live pictures we can show of people hooting and hollering? I almost can guarantee you that we do. One more time, Angie.
What do we got? And there we go. And this guy right there is -- this is -- this -- oh, this is Al Goodman, our correspondent? Look at him. He's all excited. He knows he's about to go on the air any minute now, not with us, but with somebody else, and you can see the pictures there. This looks -- this looks like it's shot in Spain. Right?
Wasn't that Spain? In Madrid. OK. So, that was -- those are shots out of Madrid, Spain. We will continue to follow that story as well.
(LAUGHTER) SANCHEZ: Once again, if you needed to know, Spain has just beat Germany, which means Spain will now play the Netherlands for the championship. They will be one and two. And number three will be decided between Uruguay and, well, Germany. There you go. I did the math. Turned out right this time.
We are going to be right back. But, first, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA, SHERIFF: I will not be threatened as the elected sheriff by any lawsuit against the state regarding the fight against illegal immigration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There he is, Joe Arpaio. You knew the Maricopa County sheriff wouldn't take the Obama administration lawsuit lying down. He hasn't. What's he saying in defense of Arizona's immigration law? That is coming right up. Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: For those of you who are, well, quasi-soccer enthusiasts and would like to see exactly how it is that the winner was chosen between -- or the winner was decided between Spain and Germany, as we look at live pictures now from Madrid with people whooping and hollering because they're excited because their team is going to the world championship, I want to show you now the final moment of the game. This is the goal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it's Puyol!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it's the man from the back who has given Spain the lead.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carles Puyol flying in. And the German defense can only look at each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You know what's funny about this is, at the very beginning, remember everybody said the best team in all of this is Spain? And then Spain went out and blew its first game, and everybody said, oh, my God, the experts were all wrong.
Now, it's starting to look like maybe the experts were right after all. Once again, those are live pictures coming in from Madrid right now, partying after they find out that their team will be playing for the championship against the Netherlands.
Now, let's turn to a story that I have a lot of personal history with. This morning, a French court sentenced Panama's former dictator Manuel Noriega to serve seven years for laundering drug money while he was the leader there, the strong man, as we used to called him, in Panama.
That's a lifetime to Noriega, who could be 83 when he finally gets out, unless he is released early on parole, not that one big player in Central American politics has had much free time lately. He's been in the U.S. jail since American troops nabbed him more than 20 years ago, but it wasn't without controversy.
In April, the U.S. sent Noriega to France, where he is accused of using banks to launder almost $3 million of money that he got from drug dealers. His attorney tried to paint Noriega as a victim of the larger geopolitical forces, accusing the U.S. of placing and moving pawns to serve its interests.
That's pretty much what Noriega was saying back in the day when I worked in Miami at WSVN and I landed the first interview with him after his trial. This is a jail-side interview. We talked about, among other things, his relationship back then, his questionable relationship with then President George Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Do you work for the CIA?
MANUEL NORIEGA, FORMER PANAMANIAN DICTATOR (through translator): I did not work. I wasn't an employee.
SANCHEZ: Why would the United States want to assassinate you?
NORIEGA: Bush. Bush. Not the United States, Bush.
SANCHEZ: Is it possible that George Bush wanted Noriega out of the way because Noriega had information that could embarrass him?
NORIEGA (through translator): Embarrassing for him? Yes.
SANCHEZ: That brings me to a very interesting question. You have been quoted as saying, "I have the goods on George Bush."
NORIEGA (through translator): That is a question which has a lot of connotations of incrimination in any response.
(LAUGHTER)
NORIEGA (through translator): So, I take my Fifth Amendment.
SANCHEZ: Will we ever know what that information is?
NORIEGA (through translator): Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Well, U.S. forces removed Noriega from office, as you know, in 1989 during the invasion of Panama called Operation Nifty Package.
Noriega is also wanted in Panama for the murder of a political rival. But the U.S. honored France's extradition request first, these on money-laundering charges, instead.
All right. We've just been told that when we come back from this break, we will be able to talk to the Coast Guard, that hopefully will be able to take us through the real details in this story that -- this drama unfolding off the shores of Philadelphia, where a boat has been -- has sank in the waters of the Delaware River, and as many as 35 people went into the water. And two of them are still unaccounted for.
What a scene. We'll take you back there with the interview with the Coast Guard right here on RICK'S LIST when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: OK. We've got an opportunity to get you more information now. We're going to stick with this for a little while. We've been struggling really to get -- we've got a lot of information, but a lot of information has left us with more questions regarding this horrible boating incident off the shores of Philadelphia.
As you know, a boat crashed into something. We were told by a witness that it was a sandbar. We were told by preliminary officials that it was in fact a barge. Some 30 to 40 people in the water, two of them still unaccounted for.
I've got two folks standing by. One of them is an eyewitness, another one is an official with the u U.S. Coast Guard.
I just want to start with the witness first, because I want to see what she saw.
Meghan Scharpf is her name. She was vacationing there in Philadelphia.
Meghan, are you there for me?
MEGHAN SCHARPF, WITNESSED DUCK BOAT ACCIDENT: Yes, I am.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Megan, just see if you can clear something up for us. We heard that one witness said it looked like the boat hit a sandbar and then it sank.
SCHARPF: No, no, no.
SANCHEZ: No? What did you see?
SCHARPF: It was a duck -- a tourist duck boat. I've never taken one myself, but you know what I'm talking about? A duck boat?
SANCHEZ: Yes, we're very familiar with it.
SCHARPF: OK. That's what it was.
And they were broken down in the harbor, or on the river, and the barge was not able to stop. And it was an absolute perfect collision.
SANCHEZ: Really?
SCHARPF: The boat was gone before our very eyes. It was absolutely horrible. I was there with my children. And to see that was awful.
SANCHEZ: So the barge -- pardon me, the duck boat was stalled in the water almost like its engine had cut off completely?
SCHARPF: Yes. Facing a different direction than the barge. Facing -- if the motor were to work, it would have been able to drive off across the river where the barge was coming down the river like -- typically like the barge -- under the bridge type of -- in that direction.
SANCHEZ: And then suddenly the barge careened into it. Was it a -- go ahead.
SCHARPF: I really believed that the duck boat was going to get out of the way. I did not know that it was stalled. And I just thought any minute it's going to get out of the way.
It was a perfect hit. The barge hit it and they were gone. They were gone for -- the duck boat full of tourists was submerged, and about 10 seconds later they all came up -- hopefully all of them -- with their life vests, and they still had to contend with the tugboat pushing the barge, which was really scary, too, because they all were in between the barge and the tugboat. The tugboat was attached to the barge, pushing or pulling the barge.
SANCHEZ: So, it sounds like you're saying -- and I know we're getting you quickly here, so I just want to make sure we're clear on this -- the barge being pushed by a tugboat hit the duck boat, and within seconds the duck boat went under water, sank.
SCHARPF: It was gone. I was just gone. It seemed like an eternity for me.
SANCHEZ: And suddenly, the passengers on the duck boat started popping up out of the water?
SCHARPF: Yes. They all had vests on. It was very reassuring to see that.
My husband and his brother ran -- started taking their shirts off. They didn't jump in or anything like that, but they were able to help a few people out onto the boardwalk where we are. And that's when authorities started to arrive, and collecting most of them. You know, that's just what happened. SANCHEZ: And one final question before I ask the Coast Guard to come in here and bring us some of the other details on this story. Was the -- you said that the duck boat seemed to be stalled in some way. Like -- you said broken down.
SCHARPF: It was.
SANCHEZ: Was it sideways when it got hit by the --
SCHARPF: It was sideways.
SANCHEZ: It was sideways.
SCHARPF: Yes. Yes.
SANCHEZ: OK.
Well, let me bring -- stand by, Meghan. I want to bring Ben Cooper now in. He's a spokesperson with the U.S. Coast Guard, and he is joining us now to fill in the banks.
Does the story that she told pretty much confirm what you have been investigating so far, Ben?
COMMANDER BEN COOPER, U.S. COAST GUARD: Hi, Rick. Yes. It's Commander Ben Cooper. I'm here in Philly.
And I was not an eyewitness. I am in our command center where we dispatch and we coordinate the search and rescue.
We are now investigating it, and we have investigators on scene with the tug and barge, and then talking to the folks from the duck boat. It sounds somewhat similar to what we hear. You know, the chaos of the situation.
We believe there were 37 people on board. Two are still unaccounted for at this time.
SANCHEZ: Well, when you say unaccounted for, I hate to do this, but I've got to ask you a very difficult question. Is there a possibility that those two that are unaccounted for have drowned?
COOPER: Well, Rick, we are right now searching with a lot of assets out there to try and find them. We sure hope they are not drowned.
It is the Delaware River. It's a nice day out here. We see the Delaware River quite well, and we've had helicopters flying over.
We have boats from both the Philly Police Department and the New Jersey State Police, Philly Fire, Pennsylvania Fish and Game, four Coast Guard boats, and then other folks helping out, including (INAUDIBLE) and good Samaritans.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Well, I guess what -- you and I will have our fingers crossed that somehow they made it on to another boat, and they just haven't been able to reach you guys yet so you can confirm that they've been rescued, or maybe they swam to the other shore. I mean, who knows, right? I suppose at this point we can hope, barring confirmation.
COOPER: Right, Rick. We're going to search as long as we believe that we have a good chance of finding these folks.
At this point we have not. We're doing everything we can to account for everyone. They set up an incident command post and did some triage there in Penn's Landing to make sure everyone is treated. And right now we have two folks unaccounted for.
SANCHEZ: So you have a vessel that sank right there in the Delaware River. Aside from the navigation issues that that could create for you, what is the depth of the water there? And what are you going to do to try and bring that vessel back up at the same time?
COOPER: OK. Well, the depth of the water is about 40 feet right there off Penn's Landing. And right now we're trying to make sure we identify the location of the vessel.
We brought in sight (ph) scan sonar with the New Jersey State Police and the Philly PD. And we're going to send divers down as soon as we can identify the location, and then as well we will work on a salvage plan to bring that vessel up. That's going to take a little while, obviously.
SANCHEZ: How turbulent are those waters?
COOPER: Well, Rick, it's a flowing river. It flows quite well. It's not a very clear river, and there is a dangerous current. So it will be a difficult evolution.
SANCHEZ: Now -- by the way, that line you're hearing there, the busy signal, or whatever, was our eyewitness who we were talking to moments ago.
Ben, let me ask you one final question. We're getting some preliminary reports that the two accounted for were not adults. In fact, teenagers.
What can you tell us about these two people who are unaccounted for?
COOPER: Again, Rick, we're doing an investigation, but it's very early on. What I believe, we have a 20-year-old male missing and a 17-year-old female missing.
SANCHEZ: A 20-year-old male and 17-year-old female. I don't imagine you want to release any identification other than that until you notify next of kin?
COOPER: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: OK. Ben, my thanks to you, sir. Ben Cooper with the Coast Guard there in Philadelphia, kind enough to get to us to bring us the very latest information on this apparent tragedy there off the shores of Philadelphia, where a barge, we now confirm and can now report, that in fact it was a barge that collided with this tourist duck boat that sent these people into the water and sank the tourist boat itself.
More information forthcoming. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Much of the issue surrounding immigration has to do with what's actually happening on the border. And in many parts of the United States, obviously Arizona among them, there are people living across the border who say you don't understand how serious the problem is until you walk in our shoes. And some of them go as far as saying since no one is taking care of the problem, we're going to take care of it ourselves, we're going to grab the bull by the horns.
That's what this next story is about. I've been wanting you to watch this now. I hoped to bring it to you earlier, but with all the breaking news, we had to push it back a little bit.
We've got some new folks in the audience, by the way.
Welcome, folks. Thanks for coming by.
We'll get a shot of these folks, give them a wave.
You ready to watch this together? You've been following the immigration story have you not?
Let's watch this together then.
The reporter in this story is from ABC 15. Her name is Christina Boomer. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINA BOOMER, REPORTER, ABC 15 (voice-over): Follow patches of barbed wire from Mexico to this border checkpoint near Tombstone and you'll find vast stretches of open desert.
(on camera): Where we're standing right now, we're 20 miles north of the border. But what are we looking at?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're looking at a main traffic corridor that the illegals use to get northern into the United States. They live far enough north. They can get up north into the (INAUDIBLE) mountains and pick up Interstate 10, and they can be in Texas in a few hours.
BOOMER (voice-over): Hike down into the washes and streambeds and you'll spot evidence of the journey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've had illegals knocking on my front door, I've had drug runners in my back yard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You get jumpy when you hear your dogs start barking at night.
BOOMER: It's a front line to human and drug smuggling beyond the border, and members of the Cochise County Militia have appointed themselves to keep an eye on it.
BILL DAVIS, COCHISE COUNTY MILITIA: All we can do is be a glorified neighborhood watch.
BOOMER: Bill Davis is the group's leader, a retired military vet and crime scene investigator struggling with age and illness to continue as he sees it, serving his country.
(on camera): What do you think is the biggest misconception about your group and what you do?
DAVIS: Like I said before, being called names -- mercenaries, wannabes, Rambos, vigilantes, whackos, storm troopers, Neo-Nazi. We're not a racist group. We're not a hate group.
How can you hate a 26-year-old woman with a 5-month-old baby in her arms that just walked 26 miles with no water?
BOOMER (voice-over): His concern doesn't center on migrants, but the arms smugglers shuttling them north. He sets up motion detection cameras, then dispatches crews to where they've caught crossers.
(on camera): During these operations, they tell me their strategy is to take their small group and disperse everybody to cover more ground.
(voice-over): After the sun has set we join "Cowboy Doug," a local rancher for night patrol.
DOUG EVANS, MILITIA MEMBER: There are several of the washes or streambeds that converge into big washes similar to streets running into a highway. We don't have any night vision equipment with us, so we'll have to go off an audible detection.
BOOMER: They'll be listening for voices that can travel on the wind in these canyons for up to a mile and watch for flickering lights.
(on camera): And so if we can see their flashlights, that means they can see ours. Therefore, it's lights out for the next couple hours. We will wait and listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just wondered how your watch went last night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it went about the same here. So, not much activity last night.
BOOMER: Is it possible that people did cross on your watch? And then, if so, how does that make you feel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least I was doing my part out here. You know? I was doing something.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And we've got a news conference in progress as we speak. There he is. That's Mayor Michael Nutter. He's talking to police -- he's talking to the media now.
Let's dip in.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
MAYOR MICHAEL NUTTER, PHILADELPHIA: The police department, fire department, Army Corps of Engineers, and of course the Coast Guard are actively searching for the two unaccounted for individuals, as well as the boat, itself.
We do not know why these two vehicles collided. We are currently investigating and doing interviews.
We're doing everything that we can to search for the unaccounted for individuals, as well as to find the vessel that has sunk. We're putting all of our efforts of course into that, on the water and through the air.
This is a very serious situation, and we're going to do everything we can to obviously get to the bottom of it. There are a lot of interviews and a lot of investigations still to take place.
As I mentioned, police, fire, our marine units, as well as the Army Corps of Engineers, and of course the Coast Guard are all actively engaged in this effort. And we are hopeful that we will recover and have an accounting for the two individuals, as well as recover the vehicle that sunk.
Obviously, Police Commissioner Ramsey is here, but I believe in terms of any additional details, Frank Lanore (ph) will try to bring you up to speed. But that's everything that we have pretty much at the moment.
QUESTION: Mayor, can you describe the two individuals --
NUTTER: Can you wait for a second? Can you wait?
Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Briefly, I'll go over -- as the mayor said, we're in the process of beginning a massive investigation into how this occurred and what occurred. So we don't have all the information as of yet.
At approximately 2:30, the tour boat entered the water just south of the Ben Franklin Bridge. While it was in the water, it did encounter some mechanical difficulty. The boat did shut down after a fire on board.
As the boat was sitting in the water, it did come into contact with the barge that was traveling northbound on the river. The boat did capsize and the passengers and crew did go into the water.
A massive search recovered 35 people, and two still remain missing. The two missing, very generally, are a 16-year-old female and a 20-year-old male. And we're still -- recovery efforts are still under way to recover the boat which we believe is submerged into the water.
At this point, that's really all the details that I have.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I'm not going to release that right now because no notifications have been made.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: What part of the boat did the fire occur in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know that either. The fire occurred, causing the boat to render. It wasn't able to operate and the boat shut down. The boat was on the water waiting for help.
QUESTION: Were they able to make a call for help?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know that for sure.
QUESTION: Was a Mayday signal put out? Was any sort of Mayday signal or anything --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. We know 911 calls were made as the accident occurred, and the Coast Guard responded.
QUESTION: Where did the fire start?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know that.
QUESTION: Did any of the passengers suffer burn-type injuries?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were nine people that were hospitalized. I'm told they're all minor injuries. Nobody was reported to have burns. And everyone else has been triaged here. And like I said, there's two that are unaccounted for.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. I don't know.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That I don't know. OK?
QUESTION: Do you know anything about the barge, why it didn't see the boat there, or where it was going?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn't tell you that until the investigation is complete. The National Transportation Safety Board, NTSB --
NUTTER: NTSB will be joining this investigation to get to issues like the question that you raised.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. It's a private company.
QUESTION: Do you know where the barge was going?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't.
QUESTION: Do you know if it's a lighter barge or is it --
SANCHEZ: Well, I was just commenting to our audience here that, you know, as a boater, there are few things more scary than a fire on board a boat. It really leaves you no place to go. I mean, you know, you've got to shut the engines down as soon as you can, hope the darned thing doesn't explode, and then just sit there and hope somehow you're able to get some help.
Now, you would think on a river you'd be able to get help pretty quick, sure, unless there is a barge that's coming down this river that happens to be pushed or towed by one of those that you're looking at right there, one of those towboats. And it pushes the barge into you, as in this case.
So the brand new information that we've just received is that there was a fire on the duck boat which caused it to break down, stall, stop before it was hit and then subsequently capsized by the impact with the barge.
We've got new sound coming in on this story from people who were there at the scene. Some of the people, in fact, who were rescued. Brand new. We'll have it on the other side.
Stay with us. You're watching RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We've been trying to get our arms around just how big an impact this was, this impact between this barge and this duck boat filled with tourists. Look what "Philly News" is putting out right now.
I want to direct your attention over here to this tweet that we just got from "Philly News." Look at the way it's explained there.
It says, "The barge completely destroyed the little duck boat. Onlooker said, 'I honestly thought it was a terrorist attack.'"
That kind of puts, as Marshall McLuhan would say, a visual script in your head of just how impactful this was.
Well, here is some sound coming in now from witnesses who watched this. Let's listen to what they have to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was standing off on the pier, and I saw the duck boat anchored in the water. And all of a sudden, I had seen this orange and blue barge that's right there just -- they didn't blow a horn or anything.
The people were trying to get out of the boat. I saw them trying to get out of the boat because they saw the barge coming. The barge just ran right over the top of them. It actually sunk under, and then people spit out of the bottom of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Wow. That's interesting terminology. I mean, it went under and then people spit out of the bottom of it.
Sarah Hoye is joining us once again. She was the first to bring us up to date on this story.
A lot has changed since you and I first talked, Sarah.
HOYE: Yes. Hey, how you doing, Rick?
Right now we just wrapped up a press conference here with the mayor of Philadelphia and some other law enforcement officials. And right now two are still missing. We have a 20-year-old male and a 16- year-old female. The search does continue.
Now, it appears that there was a fire on board the duck boat, which then made the duck boat not able to work. And so it was the fire first, and then it hit the barge -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: I'm just wondering, as you look out, do you have a vantage point from where you are now so you can look out over the river?
HOYE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Do you still see -- I know our pictures go in and out from time to time -- is there still an active search and rescue for these two people who are unaccounted for?
HOYE: Yes, there are. There are several boats here still on the water -- Philadelphia Police, U.S. Coast Guard, some other rescue vessels. So they are still on the water. And as the mayor just said a few moments ago, the search does continue.
SANCHEZ: It sounds, Sarah, as we get the information -- I mean I just read from "Philly News" a little while ago this description, and it seems to match the descriptions that we've heard from all the eyewitnesses, that there did not seem to be any hesitation on the part of the barge. Almost as if the barge that we understand was being pushed by a tugboat never actually even saw the broken down vessel, the broken down duck boat.
That seems to be a pretty strong possibility, isn't it?
HOYE: That's right, Rick. That question was asked several times. And we still have no answer to that.
They do not know if the barge saw the boat or vice versa. And they said that the investigation continues. So, law enforcement was not going to speak on that at this time.
SANCHEZ: Well, but here's the problem -- hey, Chad, are you still around? I'm just, you know -- take your time, Chad. But, you know, I didn't grow up on the Mississippi, I didn't see a lot of barges being pushed, because in south Florida you don't see a lot of that. You see mostly boats that can move on their own if the barge wasn't pushing them.
But in the case of a barge, a barge is not self-propelled, right?
MYERS: Correct.
SANCHEZ: So if a tugboat is pushing a barge, it's not like they can slam on brakes and stop.
MYERS: No, boats don't have brakes, period. Even if you put full reverse on the tug, it would not stop it.
SANCHEZ: Yes. A boat can stop and go in a different direction, but not a barge.
MYERS: Correct. Well, yes. Even so, but this barge is connected to the tug.
It's almost one vessel, really. It's completely tied.
According to the one eyewitness, this tug was tied to the port side of the barge. Literally, with a number of lines connecting it. We don't know how tall this barge was. There may have been no sight line for the tug operator to see this duck boat that's just sitting there in the way.
SANCHEZ: That's what I'm trying to get a handle on. Even if he had wanted to stop -- I understand what you're saying, if he was tied on the port side he actually can use his reverse throttle as a way of stopping the barge, but --
MYERS: A little.
SANCHEZ: A little.
MYERS: But the water is moving, the boat is moving. You have momentum. Boats don't stop on a dime.
SANCHEZ: Yes. It would be very difficult for him to do that. MYERS: And the operator of the tug may have had no idea that this duck boat was out of commission, it didn't have any forward way. There was no way for that guy to know that that boat wasn't going to get out of his way.
SANCHEZ: I'll tell you, what a terrible situation.
Meanwhile, they still have two people out there unaccounted for. Obviously, we hope for the best for their sake and for their families. It's described only as a 20-year-old male and a 16-year-old female, according to the information that we got just moments ago.
We're going to stay on the story and bring you the very latest as we get it here at CNN.
In the meantime, thanks, Chad.
Thanks to all our correspondents who brought us information.
Thanks to you for coming in and visiting with us. And I'll be talking to you in just a moment.
Here now, "THE SITUATION ROOM." Wolf Blitzer takes us through the next hours.
