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Rick's List
Interview With Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell; LeBron James Decision Nears; Spy Suspects Plead Guilty; Interview with Ed Rendell, Pennsylvania Governor
Aired July 08, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
You just heard the president of the United States. And for those of you who missed it, we're going to turn some of those around for you. The president, as we have been saying and we expected that he would come out swinging at the Republicans real hard. And, look, part of the reason the president may be doing this, according to all insiders in Washington, is the president's numbers are abysmal.
I mean, his especially his numbers with independents is as bad as they have possibly have been. So, you watched the speech. You saw the president hammer away at the Republicans. I mean, these weren't jabs. He took roundhouses, as they say, at many of the Republicans, and called many of them out by name.
Now, let me show you something. These are your tweets, all right, and obviously a lot of you are watching because you wanted to hear everything the president had to say. Many of you have said that you back this president, but you're disappointed in him in the past. Here's some of the responses that we got. Have we got those up there?
Can we get them up there? You think we possibly can? We can. Then shoot over my shoulder, if you would, Rob.
"Now, this is the Obama I voted for. He speaks the truth. I'm so glad he's back to normal."
Interesting. Back to normal.
"Lots of zingers by President Obama towards the GOP. I love it. Shows he knows what he's what is being said against him."
"Rick, he was also insulting, though, 50 percent of Americans. I thought the president was for all the people, not just half."
Now, this is interesting. When the president comes out hard like this, his base embraces him. Those who aren't necessarily his base say, well, wait a minute. What about us? Let me just read you a couple more here.
"Wow, Obama came out swinging. The ant that ate the economy, that hilarious. Great speech, Mr. President."
All right, so there's kind of some of the feedback that we're getting. Does a speech like this work for the president or work against the president, who has been trying to stay somewhat in the middle of the road?
We're joined now by Mike Heye. He's the he's with the -- Doug Heye pardon me. He's with the RNC, and he's good enough to join us now to bring us his reaction to what he heard the president say.
Hey, Doug, you there?
DOUG HEYE, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I am, Rick. It's good to be with you. Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Likewise. It's good to be with you as well. Here was a president who really came out with a couple of roundhouses there. I mean, some of the stuff thematically is not new, but the way he seemed to approach it and almost in the jocular way in which he said it was different, wasn't it?
HEYE: Oh, sure.
You know, I kept wondering where that president -- where that candidate was who kept saying that he was going to bring all of America together. That's certainly not what we heard today and really forgets the key fact.
You know, if this is -- if everything that goes on in America is the fault of the Republican Party, then he needs to explain how that is when the Democrats control the House and the Senate by large margins now, why Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid came into being in 2006.
Democrats have run Congress since 2006, and they can't escape any of the blame for what's going on. And, you know, Obama is on yet another campaign swing. It seems all he does is campaign or golf.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, what about -- what about -- what about -- what about his -- I mean, it's been a while since I have heard him try and paint Republicans as the party of no, and it was pretty obvious to me as I was listening to him here in this speech that he was trying to do just that.
And he almost itemized the areas where Republicans have fought him on his legislation, almost seeming to create the sense that they are doing it for purely political reasons.
What would be the -- what would be the answer to that charge?
HEYE: Well, I would say they are purely political reasons.
When you're a candidate or an incumbent and your numbers are falling faster than the prices in a Wal-Mart ad, you will cling to anything that you can do to deflect blame anywhere you can.
But the reality is, Barack Obama is the president. Democrats control the White House. They control the House. They control the Senate. And when unemployment is at 14 percent in Nevada, and he will be with Harry Reid campaigning for him later this week, he needs to provide real answers, and it's not just unemployment. It's underemployment.
In Nevada, it's nearly 20 percent, and it's critical because that demonstrates that voters have given up on that key Obama word, hope.
SANCHEZ: Well, you know what's interesting? A lot of folks that I talk to on the Republican or the conservative side say, you know, much of what you say is right. I mean, in many ways, this president, this administration, this Democratic Party has stepped on its own tail, but you wonder if the Republican Party deserved to reap the benefits of that, because, after all, you guys haven't been doing all that well yourself.
I mean, the polls don't seem to show that people think that Republicans really have their act together and certainly not if you look at it from a congressional basis.
HEYE: Well, but on a congressional basis, you look at the generic ballot, we're well ahead of Democrats. You look at key congressional races or Senate races --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
HEYE: Roy Blunt is ahead in Missouri, and he's going to win that seat. We are ahead because --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But that's because -- hey, Doug, that's because you're the opposition, man. It's not because you're any great shakes.
HEYE: Well, you're absolutely right that we're the opposition. People want us to stand up and fight the initiatives that this president has put into place.
We were promised that the stimulus bill was going to put unemployment below 9 percent. Obviously, it's not there yet. Unemployment has grown, and we see this in state after state. Again, a state like Nevada, gaming industry, construction industry, and those two are so interdependent, they're not coming back any time soon.
And Harry Reid and Barack Obama need to answer why. And they have offered no answers.
(CROSSTALK)
HEYE: All they do is castigate Republicans, and it doesn't work.
SANCHEZ: But even -- even people like a frequent guest on this show have been coming out of late and saying, you know, my party is making a lot of mistakes that it shouldn't be making.
Talk about, you know, defining the message. It was Ann Coulter recently who was criticizing your party for some of the candidates that you're putting out there and for some of the comments that are being made, this infighting with Michael Steele over whether what he said about Afghanistan is grounds for him resigning or being fired, John Boehner, as the president said, comparing the last economic meltdown that we all went through -- whether you're Republican or Democrat, everybody knows that that was a very serious situation.
To joke and say that it had -- that -- to compare it to an ant was probably a misstep. Barton from Texas coming out and apologizing to BP, seemingly putting the GOP -- collectively wrapping its arms around big business, these are missteps. These are mistakes you shouldn't make, Doug.
HEYE: Well, look, we are united as a party, and we're going to keep -- continue to fight the Obama agenda because that's what the American people have said repeatedly that they want to us do. And it's not just Republicans. It's not just appealing to our base.
As you mentioned earlier, his numbers with independents are in the tank.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
HEYE: They are not coming back any time soon because jobs aren't coming back any time soon.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, let me bring -- let me bring -- let me bring Jessica Yellin into that, because she's been -- she's been looking at those numbers today, and I want to get her perspective on that.
I think Doug is right, is he not, Jessica? I mean, if there's one place where you could say this president is really in trouble, it's with the indies, right?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: His support among independents has hemorrhaged.
He plummeted from 56 percent a year ago support among independents to 38 percent. And for them, Rick, it's partly the economy and also this sense that President Obama promised to do things differently in Washington, to end the rancor and partisanship. And independents more than any other group tend to blame him more than the other parties for the sense of rancor because he promised to change it, so he's got these two problems hanging over his head when it comes to winning this key swing vote.
SANCHEZ: What about -- you know, we're going to have the governor of Pennsylvania up in a little bit, Ed Rendell, and he's got an interesting take on this .
And, Doug, Do, I want to hear your take on this. You're a political strategist. I mean, look, we're all Americans here looking at the situation. And we want our country to do well. He seems to say or intimate that, whether what the president has done is good or bad doesn't matter, as much as the fact that they have been really lousy at getting the message out there, with these convoluted names like stimulus, et cetera, and some of the other things that they have called their legislation, that the language hasn't been concrete enough, that they haven't been able to tell the American people, OK, this is the legislation we passed, and this is what it's going to do for you.
Instead, we have this pseudo-intellectual language that Americans just can't relate to. And as a result Americans don't respond to it. That seems to be what the governor of Pennsylvania is saying. Is there some truth to that, guys?
Jessica, I will start with you.
YELLIN: That he's too abstract essentially?
SANCHEZ: Way too abstract in defining exactly what it is that he's attempting to do or doing for the American people.
YELLIN: Well, it's interesting, because one of the tweets you read or from Facebook was somebody saying now he's making sense today.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
YELLIN: The language he used today almost identically parallels some of the language he used during the 2008 campaign for the presidency. This whole idea, I drove -- they drove the car into the ditch and now you're getting the keys -- they want the keys back, some of these lines are the same lines that got him into office to begin with and that's the message that resonated.
SANCHEZ: But --
YELLIN: I also think you are going to hear him use -- they have locked on to this theme that you're going to hear them ride into the November election, which is the Republicans don't get it. On BP, they are defending BP, with saying the ant -- the economic collapse is merely an ant. They are with big business. We're with you, the little guy.
That's the message that the president is going to continue to reinforce as he's stumping, and that seems -- they think that clicks as well.
SANCHEZ: Well, Karl Rove was just so good at this during the Bush administration. He could create legislation that was even something not having it -- anything at all to do with the color yellow, but somehow call it yellow, and Americans would say, oh, look, they passed a bill for yellow.
It sounds silly, but message discipline is very important.
Doug, are you still with us? Is it not?
HEYE: Absolutely. It's of critical importance, and Jessica said something very important earlier, said that this president promised to do things differently, and he hasn't. The Barack Obama that thought recess appointments were an abuse of power just made a recess appointment last week. The defense that Democrats, that the DNC and the White House gives for the Sestak and Romanoff job offers is that it's business as usual.
That's not what the American people voted for and that's a real problem that this administration has.
YELLIN: Rick --
SANCHEZ: Jessica, go ahead.
YELLIN: Rick, let me add that what the criticism is, is that Washington isn't different. Democrats and Republicans are both to blame, but independents tend to blame President Obama for the problem in Washington the most because he's the one who said he would come and change it.
But it's not that they say Republicans are playing nice. Everybody is playing badly, and they blame President Barack Obama for not fixing that.
SANCHEZ: No, and I think we get that. in fact, Doug and I were just talking about that a little while ago. And he was kind of with a wink and a nod agreeing that they have got their own work to do in that category as well.
Hey, Doug, thanks for coming on. We appreciate you hustling to get on with us. OK?
HEYE: Any time. Thank you. Thank you to your viewers as well.
SANCHEZ: All right. We will do it again.
And, Jessica, we will catch up as well. We will see you soon.
YELLIN: Great. Thanks.
SANCHEZ: When we come back, you heard about what's going on in Miami. I keep getting tweets here and e-mails suggesting to me that LeBron James is in fact going to be saying tonight that he will play with the Miami Heat. That means he will be playing with Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade, I suppose making one of the best teams in the history of the NBA, or one would possibly think.
It's one thing to have a team on paper. It's quite another one to have another team out there on the court what. What actually will happen, though? Because nobody really knows. We're going to be talking about that. Stay with us.
That and Mel Gibson. Wow.
We will be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It's unbelievable. We as a nation are so event-driven, and there is an event tonight that is seemingly coalescing the attention of the American people in ways that we haven't seen in such a long time.
He's a basketball player, a basketball player, no less, who has never even won a championship. And yet the fact that tonight he's going to go on the air and announce where he will play for the next three or five years has America focused like a beam on LeBron James.
Look at this tweet that we just got moments -- this is John Kerry, the man who ran for the presidency of the United States. You know, we follow him, just like we follow a bunch of other politicians.
"Wow, this LeBron announcement is a made-for-TV production beyond anything we have ever attempted. Laugh out loud" -- John Kerry.
He couldn't buy that kind -- John Kerry, that is, couldn't buy that kind of attention when he was running against the president of the United States. Now -- or for the presidency of the United States.
Joining us now is, from New York, CNN sports contributor Max Kellerman, who has been following this thing as well.
This thing is really pretty nuts, when you try and explain it to a news audience. I mean, I -- look, I'm a sports fan. I'm a jock. I get it. But, from a -- from a news standpoint, we look at this thing, Max, and we're going, OK, I get that it's exciting, but the whole country is like -- we might see ratings tonight on ESPN and on CNN, when we're going to cover this as well, I'm sure, live, like we haven't seen in a long time. Why?
(CROSSTALK)
MAX KELLERMAN, CNN SPORTS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
Well, I mean, sports is a trivial subject. There's no doubt. It's not the BP oil disaster, right? It's a sporting event. This -- why does it actually command our attention?
The answer is, basketball is a compelling sport, obviously. It's growing faster than any sport globally. It's one of the three real major American sports, along with baseball and football. And unlike baseball and football, one player in basketball can take a team from terrible to nearly great all by himself, as LeBron James has done with the Cavs.
He's a unique talent. He has not suffered from the anxiety of influence that it seems like other players post-Michael Jordan have suffered from. He's a new thing. He's not just trying to do Jordan. He combines sort of the best elements of Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson in a form we haven't seen before.
So, he's a unique talent in his prime about to change the fortunes of one NBA franchise.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Max, he hasn't won a damn thing since he's been in the NBA.
KELLERMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: The guy hasn't never even won a championship.
KELLERMAN: Well, no, that's -- that -- well, never even won a championship. The fact is, it is a team sport. He took the worst or maybe the second worst team I have ever seen get to the finals to the finals. He got past some very, very good teams in the process.
So, he hasn't won a championship, but he hasn't been surrounded by anything like a championship team.
SANCHEZ: All right, well, let's talk about that, because, if he does the Miami thing -- and I'm getting as much information directing me to believe -- no confirmation, but some people that I trust are reporting that their sources say, people like Stephen A. Smith, that they are convinced that he's going to Miami, for example.
KELLERMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: Now, I don't know where he's going to go, but if he goes to Miami, he's going to be playing with two of the other guys who may be at the very top of their game in the NBA, maybe as good as anybody who has ever played.
KELLERMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: You put these three guys together, well, then, he is going to be guaranteed some rings, isn't he?
KELLERMAN: No doubt about it. I don't care what anyone says. You put those three guys together, they will roll the league, including the Lakers in the finals.
I don't think there's a team capable of basically taking the dream team that we saw this -- in this last Olympics -- I mean, those were the three best players, along with Kobe Bryant, on that team. I don't think a team can take them seven games in a best-of-seven series if they have any kind of competent shooting around them at all, which I'm sure Pat Riley would put around them.
The issue that -- I still wonder if this isn't all a MacGuffin, a smokescreen, because so many people believed he was going to New York yesterday.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What did you call it? A MacGuffin.
KELLERMAN: You know, in literature -- Rick, in literature, it's called a MacGuffin, right?
SANCHEZ: Right.
KELLERMAN: That's the thing that you follow that doesn't -- that's meant to take your attention away from what's really going on.
SANCHEZ: Yes, like the red herring.
KELLERMAN: I haven't -- right. It's a red herring, sure.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLERMAN: I haven't seen anything in the analysis of the facts, other than the fact that they would create a super team, that would lead me to believe he is going to Miami.
I mean, the fact is Dwyane Wade is as good as LeBron or Kobe or Jordan, I mean, just right on that level. He's won a championship with Shaquille O'Neal in Miami. No one seems to care. Why would LeBron James go there, when there are bigger platforms as broadcasting mechanisms for his star globally --
SANCHEZ: Like Chicago.
KELLERMAN: -- like New York or Chicago? Yes.
SANCHEZ: Because it's South Beach, baby. It's South Beach. No, just kidding. Listen --
KELLERMAN: I'm with you. I'm with you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Well, I grew up there. It's a little overrated.
By the way -- well, then again, I'm married with four kids and a dog, and I live in the suburbs.
But young bucks like you would love it down there, Max.
Let me ask you a question.
KELLERMAN: Believe me, I -- you don't have to sell me on South Beach. I get the appeal.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question. Let's do some numbers, all right? OK, Wade got $20 million a year. That's incomprehensible to me and to everybody watching right now, but let's go with it, $20 million a year for Dwyane Wade, $19 million a year for Chris Bosh.
How -- what's left for LeBron? Will those guys take a cut and say, I will tell you what, I will give you back $4 million and I will gave you back $ million? That way, in case you have only got $20 million, you can give him 30 million?
(CROSSTALK) KELLERMAN: I don't think those numbers are precise, the numbers you just quoted. They are ballpark. I believe that under the --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes. Those are -- those are from -- I got those from "The Herald" last night. I went through and looked at "The Miami Herald" and those are the numbers they had. And you're right. You're right. They are never exact, right, but they are close.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLERMAN: But because -- the reason I -- the reason I bring that up is because in a league with a salary cap, like the NBA, that actually becomes an issue.
The salary cap numbers came in yesterday $2 million above what people thought they were going to come in, so the Heat have $2 million of extra room there in their salary cap. And if everyone takes what they call a $1 million haircut, what it's been -- it's been called that in the press, if LeBron and Wade and Bosh each agree to take $1 million less than they would otherwise receive, they could all conceivably sign with the Heat.
The Heat also have a player in Michael Beasley who was drafted high up, second overall pick a couple of years ago, and they are trying to move in his contract to bring in yet more players, like potentially Mike Miller, who is a great shooter, who LeBron really likes to put in the mix.
I mean, if it's true that LeBron is heading to Miami, that is a three-headed monster the likes of which the NBA hasn't seen maybe since the Lakers of the late -- you know, Unseld and West and Chamberlain. But, by the way, they lost to the Knicks in '69, '70.
SANCHEZ: I like this idea, though, that a bunch of guys on the team would be willing to either get cut -- or maybe not be willing, but they would have to get cut. The rest of the guys would take what is called minimum wage in the NBA, which is like half-a-million dollars a year, while LeBron gets something like $30 million and the other two guys get something like $20 million.
KELLERMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: That's crazy, but you know what? It's the kind of numbers that guys like you and I can only maybe talk about and never actually conceive actually living in that world.
(LAUGHTER)
KELLERMAN: Rick, that's the tip of the ice -- that's the tip of the iceberg. That's the tip of the iceberg in endorsement money.
SANCHEZ: Oh, yes, I know. Yes.
(CROSSTALK) KELLERMAN: -- and in equity of whatever else they do.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: If he keeps his nose clean.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLERMAN: That's not the real income.
SANCHEZ: If he keeps his nose clean and he doesn't pull a Tiger.
But let's -- we're out of time, Max. I really enjoyed talking to you.
KELLERMAN: Pleasure, Rick.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Maybe tomorrow, we will be talking about it as if it's a done deal. Let's see what happens.
And, look, New Jersey --
KELLERMAN: We will find out.
SANCHEZ: -- Chicago, L.A. is still in there. The Knicks are still in there. It ain't over until it's over, folks. Just ask Yogi Berra.
We will be right back, but, before that, take a look at this. Why is President Obama still selling his economic plan, and why aren't independent voters buying what he's done so far? That's coming up in just a little bit. We will keep talking about it. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I have a really good friend, by the way, that I have been following for some time, and I'm going to get to you what he just sent me in a moment having to do with LeBron James. I'm not going to let that go.
But, first, I want to bring you up to date on something that we have been following here on CNN regarding that alleged spy ring operating out of the Northeast part of the United States.
Let me just read you right now what we have been able to confirm here at CNN. The 10 Russian spies have begun the process of now entering guilty pleas in federal court in New York. The U.S. district judge there, Kimba Wood, well-known judge, by the way, politically as well, told the suspects and their attorneys it was her understanding that each of the accused wished to plead guilty. The attorney for each of the alleged spies then stood up one by one and they answered yes.
The judge has not yet accepted their pleas. The court proceedings continue, and the backdrop of this all obviously has to do with the fact that there's this ongoing story out there that there might be some kind of spy swap going on, where we would get some Russian spies in turn -- in return for some of the spies involved in this ring.
Now, there is no independent confirmation of that yet, nor has the State Department confirmed it. We will continue to try and drill down on it -- drill down on it. And as we get more information, we will share it with you.
An update on the LeBron James story. Where is he going? Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right.
Here's what we call one of them there pre-teases. I have just been told that my friend -- I think I can call him a friend -- Isiah Thomas, who is the head coach of the Florida FIU Panthers in South Florida in Miami, will be calling our show momentarily, hopefully to give some perspective on what's going on with this big announcement tonight regarding LeBron James.
So, stand by for that. Once again, famed, Hall of Fame quarterback -- quarterback.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: NBA guard Isiah Thomas is going to be calling our show momentarily.
Now, making our LIST as the latest globetrotter, it's BP's Tony Hayward. Now, you remember Tony Hayward. He's the Brit who showed up in the Gulf promising BP would take care of everything. Not to worry, he said, was his mantra, as he pressed the flesh with the locals.
Now, this is Hayward in Louisiana back in May, before BP replaced him as the head of its cleanup efforts. So, where has Hayward has been since he whined that he wanted his life back. According to "The Wall Street Journal," BP has -- has put Hayward on the road visiting countries where the oil giant does business.
In spite of all of the faux pas that Hayward made in America, he's still BP's guy. In just the past week, Hayward has been to oil- rich Russia, Azerbaijan, and Abu Dhabi. He's also reported to be heading to Angola. There's all types of speculation about what BP and Hayward are up to.
According to "The Wall Street Journal," some insiders tell them Hayward is making all these trips to reassure the local governments that BP is a long-term partner. But there's also speculation that Hayward is looking for some deep-pocket support to improve BP's liquidity and help fend off any takeover attempts that could come from rival oil companies in the wake of this disaster in the Gulf that they have so thoroughly screwed up. Whatever it is, the Justice Department has sent a letter to BP requesting BP give us -- give the United States advanced notice of any sales of its assets or any acquisitions or any corporate restructuring. The Department of Justice wants to make sure that BP plans to keep its word that the company will pay for all of its situation in the Gulf.
"The Journal" quotes a source close to BP as saying the company will push back against the request.
When we come back, the very latest on the spy situation -- is there or is there not going to be a spy swap between the United States and Russia?
Deb Feyerick is joining us. She's going to have the very latest on this story.
Should we go to her now? We want to get her in after the break? Deb, are you there?
DEB FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am here for you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's try and sort through this thing as best we can. We understand that the spies are -- the alleged spies, I should say, were in court this afternoon all getting ready to plead guilty. What should we take from that?
FEYERICK: Well, you know, it's interesting, because as a matter of fact they are in court right now. They are before the judge and their lawyers have told the judge that, in fact, they are planning on pleading guilty.
What's interesting is the possibility that there's going to be a swap.
Now, I spoke to one justice official who tells me that because of this suggestion of a swap, they believe that these people had no access to classified information. You can imagine that once they go back to Russia, they are clearly going to be debriefed by Russian intelligence officials. If they had information that was potentially classified, chances are they would never be let out of the United States.
The question is: who the U.S. is going to get in return? I've been making a lot of calls. Nobody yet is just clear on that. You know, this is a sort of one-time opportunity, and the U.S. is going to put together a hypothetical wish list.
Clearly, there are people in prisons but by sort of saying here's who we want, it's kind of a confirmation that perhaps they were in Russia and were perhaps spying. So, again, we got to do this very, very diplomatically and very carefully.
SANCHEZ: I'm figuring -- I mean, I'm just doing the math here, if they are all pleading -- if they all end up pleading guilty, that would certainly lead one to believe that they are more apt to actually be some kind of swap or trade with the Russians, because if they didn't think that they would be leaving this country and going back to the mother country, then why would they plead guilty? They'd probably fight the charges and try to stay out of jail, right?
FEYERICK: Well, they are pleading guilty, and one of the reasons that this is being done, according to people that I've been speaking with is because they really -- they -- Russia and the U.S. want this over with as quickly as possible.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
FEYERICK: This is what we call an expedited removal. By getting them out, there's no threat of a lock trial. They have got about 100 decrypted messages, the U.S. does. Clearly, that's the kind of thing that you don't want put out there before the public to see what exactly these 10 men and women were doing here in the United States.
What's really kind of interesting is that the reason they were here, according to one of the messages, is because of the security of Russia. The fact that they are being allowed to leave --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
FEYERICK: -- well, that suggests that perhaps what's in the best interest of the security of Russia doesn't necessarily threaten U.S. security. So, it's kind of an interesting dynamic.
SANCHEZ: I'll tell you -- this is starting to look more and more like it's going to happen given the little information that we've been learning in the last half hour or so.
Deb Feyerick, appreciate it. Thanks so much. Let us know if anything changes.
FEYERICK: Sure.
SANCHEZ: We've heard about Mel Gibson's foul and offensive rants before. There certainly have been plenty of them. Well, now, there's a new tape that reportedly documents something far worse than the rants, far worse than the bigoted statements he's made about women and about Jews and about blacks. This is worse.
How can it be worse? Well, it's so bad, in fact, that police are now investigating in this case. We'll bring you the story in just a little bit, the story of Mel Gibson and the meltdowns.
Also, President Obama touts his economic successes and he goes after Republicans in a hard way. But does this real very more to do with the fact that he's losing the independent support that he used to have? We'll talk about that in just a little bit -- with who? The governor of Pennsylvania, Ed Rendell. He joins us -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We're going to be hearing from the governor of Pennsylvania. He's known as being one of the smartest strategists in the Democratic Party. The guy just gets it, right? Ed Rendell, governor of Pennsylvania.
They say you get him on your side, there's a real good chance that you'll be able to get elected. He helped the president a lot.
Well, before we do that, I want you to listen to what the president said and did today -- because it was very different from what the president has been doing of late. He certainly wasn't a guy who was standing back. I mean, he was face forward and really in attack mode of sorts against Republicans who he seemed to be trying to brand once again as the "party of no." He was also a little bit more concrete, maybe a little more message disciplined.
Here. Let's watch some of the highlights from his speech together again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sometimes these pundits, they can't figure me out. They say, well, why is he doing that? You know, that doesn't poll well.
Well, I've got my own pollsters. I know it doesn't poll well, but it's the right thing to do for America, and so we go ahead and do it.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: What the other side is counting on is people not having a very good memory. Think about it. I mean, they are not making any new arguments. They are not coming back and saying, you know what? We really screwed up, but we've learned our lesson and now we've got this new approach, and this is how things are going to turn out really well.
That's not their argument. They are trying to sell you the same stuff that they have been peddling -- I'm just saying.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: They are peddling that same snake oil that they have been peddling now for years.
The leader of the Republican Party in the House of Representatives, John Boehner, he says, well, we don't need all this. This is like using a nuclear weapon to kill an ant.
The worst crisis since the Great Depression he calls an ant. You've got to make a movie -- the ant that ate the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Governor Ed Rendell is joining us now from PA.
Governor, did you call the president and tell him to change his tone, his manner and be a little more disciplined with his message, because it seems like this speech that he gave this afternoon had more of that Rendell strategy, if not vigor to it? GOV. ED RENDELL (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, it's good to see the president getting engaged. As we get closer to the fall elections, it's important that he deliver the message for us, because he is in the first and last analysis our most effective message deliverer. No question about that.
And he's got to get engaged -- and I think the Republicans have opened the door, Rick, with huge mistakes, first criticizing him for the BP settlement saying it was extortion. I think the American people, 95 percent of them reject that.
Second, siding with Wall Street and not enacting a financial responsibility bill. Wall Street is more unpopular than even Washington is these days.
And thirdly, turning their backs on unemployed people who are desperately searching for jobs by voting against not -- not only against the extension of unemployment benefits but by some Republicans characterizing it as an entitlement.
And then, of course, there's Michael Steele, who is the gift that keeps on giving for us.
So, I think the door has been opened for us, and the president is walking right through that pretty firmly.
SANCHEZ: Well, if that's the case, Governor, and, you know, that's all well and good and you're probably correct. But if you look at the numbers, it doesn't bear out the argument that you just made. Why the disconnect?
RENDELL: Well, I think it's going to take some time. Before for too long -- and you've heard me say that, and I've said it on your show -- for too long, we were too distant; for too long, we played back; for too long, we played by the gentleman's rules instead of getting in there and being rough and tumble, and now, I think it's time to start fighting back. And telling the American people, do you want to elect the party that thinks we were too tough on BP? Do you want to elect the party that protects Wall Street and leaves the door open for another tragedy happening like what's plunged us into that recession?
So, I think it's time for that tough message and I think that it will resonate over time.
SANCHEZ: What about just -- what about just the -- you know, when I talk to my writers on this newscast, one of the things I always -- I always drill down on, and they'll tell you to a person, is be concrete. Tell people exactly what you're trying to say. Don't speak obliquely. Don't be abstract.
RENDELL: Right.
SANCHEZ: If you have something about white sheet of paper, say white sheet of paper. Don't say writing utensils. The Bush administration would literally pass legislation that would allow corporations to put a little bit maybe more -- well, let me not use the word pollution -- but to put a little bit more smoke in the air and they would call it the blue skies initiative. This administration passes legislation they believe is good for the American people, and they call it names that most people can't even wrap their heads around. Is that part of their problem?
RENDELL: Yes, no question about it. And number one, the president is so smart and so scholarly, that sometimes his phraseology is not easy for the average American to understand. But I think he's ratcheting down and delivering a very impactful message these days -- number one.
And number two, we got out-communicated. I can make a case if you have enough time, Rick, that the stimulus bill has saved the country. It has certainly created a lot of economic activity here in Pennsylvania --
SANCHEZ: All right. Hold that thought.
RENDELL: -- and we can demonstrate it.
SANCHEZ: Hold that thought. You know what? I think that's an important piece of -- I think that's an important conversation. You say the stimulus has saved the country. You say it saved people's jobs.
The opposition says, I have one of them on here just a little while ago, are you kidding me? This is one of the biggest problems we have, and it all comes down to spending, and all the independents that are turning against Obama are buying that argument.
So, when we come back, I'll give you a chance to refute that. The governor of Pennsylvania, Governor Ed Rendell, is staying with us after the break. We're just going to take a little short one. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It's interesting. As a lot of folks on Twitter are listening to your conversation some are being very kind to you and some are not.
Some in the opposition are saying, "Stop cheerleading, Rendell. We got out-communicated? You ain't seen nothing yet, Rendell. We're about to ouster all of you."
There you go. And they say, and a lot of the folks who are tweeting me and saying this, are saying this is so because Republicans believe they are going to be able to convince Americans that this administration has overspent and not regulated fiscally the America's economy well, and it's a message that I think you know, Governor, is resounding with Americans out there.
Why is that so? Explain to us now your answer about the stimulus.
RENDELL: Because I think we've been out-communicated from the very beginning.
Well, let me give you an example. You know right now, Rick, there's a big debate going on about whether the extended Medicaid benefits that the federal government has given the states under stimulus should be extended for six months, and the president is for it. At one point, the House and Senate both voted for it in separate bills.
SANCHEZ: Right.
RENDELL: If we lose that funding -- if we lose that funding -- I will have to lay off between 15,000 and 20,000 workers, some state workers, case workers, but some policemen and firemen and local governments, teachers, things like that. And that's a fact. That's no ifs, ands buts.
So, don't anyone out there tell me that the stimulus funding hasn't preserved jobs, important jobs, for people who do very important functions. That's number one.
Number two, on May 30th, there were 11,300 people in Pennsylvania working on jobs that were fully funded by stimulus. Those were infrastructure jobs, working on the job site itself or back in Pennsylvania factories producing the steel, the concrete and the asphalt.
These are hard and fast numbers. Everyone else can give their opinion. We've got the numbers to back it up.
Now, Pennsylvania, we can pat ourselves on the back. We're number one in the country among all the states in spending our infrastructure dollars. We spent them quickly and put people to work, but stimulus has clearly worked.
But at the very beginning people were told there's a lot of welfare in here. There's a lot of things that aren't job-producing. There isn't enough infrastructure money. And truth be told there wasn't enough infrastructure money. We should have had more infrastructure money.
Building America's Future, the group that I head up with Governor Schwarzenegger and Mayor Bloomberg, we wanted to see significantly more infrastructure spending. But the stimulus has worked. Without it -- and it's always hard to prove a negative -- but without it, the job situation in this country would be markedly worse. Let me repeat that, markedly worse.
SANCHEZ: The governor of Pennsylvania on his defense of what we heard just a little while ago from Republicans, and what has become a drum beat of sorts that a lot of Americans believe, you refute that, and need I say you refute it as well as you usually do as the gentleman that you are.
Governor, one final question: Where is LeBron James going tonight?
RENDELL: Well, I don't know where he is going, but I hope it's back to Cleveland. He's meant so much to that city, not only the morale and the psyche of the city, but in just dollars and cents, what he's done to downtown Cleveland by playing there. Don't leave Cleveland. It's a great town. They're great people. They're a lot like Pennsylvanians, and that's where I want him to stay.
SANCHEZ: I had a feeling you might say that.
Governor Ed, thanks, sir. Appreciate your time.
RENDELL: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Well, we've got a people who are weighing in on this. Ochocinco just sent us a tweet, Chad Ochocinco. He says he's going to New York, the New York Knicks.
What's Isaiah Thomas say? What's Wolf Blitzer say? They are all talking about it, and we're going to bring their responses when we come right back. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Well, we got Isaiah Thomas just called in as he promised he would, and we've got Wolf Blitzer standing by. You know, Wolf Blitzer is a huge NBA fan, goes to games and is following this just as much as anybody else.
You know, we are a country of event fanatics, and when something like this happens, it gets this kind of energy going. It's like we're all -- it's like really? He's going to make the announcement? Well, my God, I've got to be there. Let's all get together and watch him make the announcement.
This is kind of funny to watch the way it's developed, isn't it, Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you know, I'm really happy though that the proceeds from the commercials are going to go to his favorite charity, the Boys and Girls Clubs of America, because it's a really worthwhile charity. So, at least they are going to be some --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BLITZER: -- serious money that's going to go to the Boys and Girls Clubs.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Well, he's probably got $35 million a year or something ridiculous like that.
BLITZER: He'll make a lot of money. That's just the start. Wait until the endorsements come in.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Wait until the endorsements come in.
You care to guess, Wolf, by the way?
BLITZER: You know, I've been going back and forth. As you know, I'm a season ticket holder for the Washington Wizards. I love NBA basketball. I love college basketball. I think it's a great sport.
I could -- the other day, I thought for sure, he would stay in Cleveland and then I thought he would go to New York. Now, I'm thinking maybe Miami. I -- I'll wait and see what happened at 9:00 tonight when he announces. But I could make the case for all three of those cities, and it's going to be up to him.
SANCHEZ: And then, by the way, after you're done making the case for all three of those, he'll say he's going to the Chicago Bulls. So --
BLITZER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Who knows?
BLITZER: You know, I think they want to keep all of us guessing, and that's exactly what we're doing.
SANCHEZ: And then there's also the Nets.
Wolf, thanks. I'll look forward to looking at watching your newscast today. I'm sure as usual it will be stellar.
I want to bring in Isaiah Thomas now, because Isaiah and I have had a lot of conversations in the past, and he's good enough to join me now from Florida -- from the campus of Florida International University, but I understand you are in-transit right now. Where are you, Isaiah?
ISAIAH THOMAS, FMR. NEW YORK KNICKS COACH (via telephone): I am actually in New York City.
SANCHEZ: Oh, so -- uh-oh, wait a minute. Are you in New York City because you're expecting that New York City is going to be very much in the news tonight?
THOMAS: Well, there's definitely big news around New York, and I still kind of live here in the summer, and this is quite an exciting time.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me be -- let me be a little more direct. I'm hearing a lot of folks who are saying that he's going to Miami, but I'm seemingly now hearing an equal number of folks from the inside who seem to be intimating that he's going to sign with the New York Knicks. What do you know?
THOMAS: Well, I -- I only have hope, and my hope is I do -- I would like to see him on the biggest stage in the world. I would like to see him play for the Knicks. I think it's the hardest place to win the championship, and if he was to win the championship in New York, he definitely would go down as -- if not the greatest player in the history of the game, but one of the greatest players. I also have a soft spot in my heart for Miami. I know how hard Dwyane Wade works. He's from Chicago. And, you know, seeing those three get together would also be exciting, too.
I don't think it would be as quite as a challenge for those three in Miami as it would be for, you know, LeBron in New York.
SANCHEZ: Former NBA all-star, Isaiah Thomas, currently head basketball coach at Florida International University.
My thanks to you, Isaiah, for joining us.
When we come back, Mel Gibson -- you want to hear what he's done now? Suffice it to say, this time, it seems to involve the police. Yes. It's gotten that bad.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Rare repeat offender for the list you don't want to be on today. And when you hear what's being reported about this man in an incident with his girlfriend, the mother of his child, I think you'll see why he wanted an extra appearance.
(MUSIC)
SANCHEZ: Mel Gibson is a leading man. He's an action star. He's a conservative. He's very Catholic.
Father of seven -- wait, eight children. Because a few years ago, he got into trouble for using anti-Semitic language during a DUI traffic stop -- just last week, we told you about the expletive-filled fight that he with the mother of his eighth child, his now ex- girlfriend Oksana Grigorieva.
Well, "Radar Online" was the first to report about an audio recording that surfaced. On that tape, Gibson reportedly told his girlfriend that she was dressed like an F-ing pig in heat that would get raped by a pack of "N" words and it would be her own fault.
As bad as that was, now "Radar Online" is reporting more of that audio recording. Apparently, Gibson -- according to them -- hit Oksana while she was holding their infant child in her arms, and when she asked him on the tape, "What kind of man it is who would hit a woman when she was holding a child in her hands, hitting her twice in the face? What kind of man is that?" in closed quotations, a male voice can be heard saying, according to a voice "Radar Online" believes to be Mel Gibson's, he says, "You know what, you F-ing deserved it. You F-ing deserved it."
CNN has not heard those audio recordings. Neither apparently has Mel Gibson's public relations teams. Here's what they told us today when we reached out for a comment: "Can't comment on something I've never heard nor confirmed even exists. Remember, this is a legal matter sealed by a court order."
That's right. They do have an ongoing legal battle over custody of their child, and these new revelations certainly won't help, at least in the court of public opinion, especially now that we've learned within the past hour that the Malibu sheriff's office, the police, have announced today that they are launching a domestic violence investigation against Mel Gibson because of some of these accusations that he may have struck his girlfriend while she was holding the baby. She says it was as bad as leading to possible concussions and a lost tooth.
Mel Gibson on this day, number one on "The List You Don't Want 2 Be On."
(MUSIC)
SANCHEZ: Here now, "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf Blitzer.
