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Rick's List
America's Economic Crisis; Gulf Spill's Environmental Impact
Aired July 12, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Erick Erickson is joining us now. He's a CNN contributor and editor in chief of RedState.org.
It's like a bitter pill, but is it true?
ERICK ERICKSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think probably it is, when we look at where we're headed.
In fact I'm actually -- full disclosure -- in the process of writing a book that may be more wonky than anyone would expect me to write.
SANCHEZ: Really?
ERICKSON: And we see, internationally, in India, in Ireland, in the United States, as -- as debt creeps up in terms of gross domestic product, the inefficiencies of government increase, and it becomes very, very hard for government to create growth.
SANCHEZ: You probably hate this president with a passion, because you think he -- you know, because you think he spends way too much, right?
ERICKSON: Yes
SANCHEZ: I will put that in your mouth, and you will accept it. Good.
ERICKSON: Yes, I will accept it.
SANCHEZ: Some would say it's not fair to argue that. He had to spend too much because of what he was left with, saddled with by the past administration.
ERICKSON: See, I don't think so. The past administration spent a lot, too. And we're seeing the Democrats spend more than the Republicans spent. We have seen very few who want to cut spending, Democrats or Republicans.
SANCHEZ: But that's not fair. Let me tell you why. Because the past administration was given a healthy, robust economy by the previous administration, the Clinton administration.
ERICKSON: Not true.
(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: The Obama administration -- well, but not like this.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: We weren't at the brink of -- the brink of collapse, as George W. Bush himself said.
(CROSSTALK)
ERICKSON: But we were in a recession, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
ERICKSON: Yes, you know, the irony of the last administration is that we saw the lowest unemployment ever recovered -- recorded in American history, and we saw it end with a recession. The recession has gone on. Now we're seeing massive unemployment, excluding the people who aren't even considering -- considered unemployed anymore because they have stopped looking.
But the government's answer doesn't seem to be working. Remember, if you take the map of what the Obama administration said would be unemployment if we didn't pass the stimulus and what it would be if we did, we're off the charts overall.
We always talk about Republicans want to be the tax-cutters. They don't want to raise taxes.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
ERICKSON: We never really talk about Democrats wanting to cut -- not cut spending, but the corollaries are the same. Democrats want to raise spending. Republicans want to cut taxes. Why do we have to go with the increased taxes, when Barack Obama's own head of economics, Christina Romer, has shown that, when you raise taxes, you decrease government -- you decrease growth in the private sector?
Now, we may have to, but in a recession, this is going to be a very difficult sell. The real problem is...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But if that -- hold on a minute. If that were true -- and I'm -- I'm being kind of a devil's advocate with you here...
ERICKSON: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... because that's what I'm being paid to do. But, if that were true, why is it that the Bush administration was able to in many ways cut taxes for a certain amount of people and still the economy wasn't...
(CROSSTALK)
ERICKSON: See, I think that the Bush administration taxes have been badly mischaracterized, when you look at what they cut and how they cut.
It was very clear that their taxes were aimed to drive business incentive to reinvest in the economy. And what we saw in 2002 and 2003 is that business investment did begin to go back up after the downturn when they first came into office. And I think it worked.
The issue, though, is this game we play, why should we tax the rich and not tax anyone else? Why can't everyone be taxed equally, if we're all equal citizens?
SANCHEZ: The fact is we need to tax and we need to stop spending. We need to do both. Is that not true?
ERICKSON: I think we need to stop spending. Why do we need to tax more?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But, see, now you're like...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: It's almost like this is why we're in this standoff.
ERICKSON: Yes, we are in a standoff.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, and isn't that a problem? Because we're looking at it as Democrats and as Republicans, rather than as Americans...
ERICKSON: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... because if we really looked at it as Americans, then the Democrats would say, yes, let's hold back the unions. Let's spend less and fewer entitlements, and the Republicans would say, and you know what, we probably need to raise taxes as well.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But those two sides will never say, give that ground. And until they do that, we're stuck.
ERICKSON: There's a bigger issue, though, which both parties haven't wanted to address and that is what is the role of government? And until we decide, is government the role -- has the role that it has now, we're going to keep doing this.
If government's job is to bail everyone and every business out, to provide the safety net for everyone in America, whether they can or cannot make it for themselves, we're going to keep spending. We're going to have a greater welfare state.
SANCHEZ: Government's job is to provide for us in such a way so that we can provide for ourselves. Is that not true?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I mean, in the end, is that not what they're supposed to do?
(CROSSTALK)
ERICKSON: We will take care of ourselves, but we need you to just get us over the hump. Make sure the roads are fixed. Make sure things are taken care of.
(CROSSTALK)
ERICKSON: Grover Cleveland had a great quote. The obligation of the public is to provide revenue for the government. The government's job is not to provide for the people. I think that's right.
SANCHEZ: Do you think -- and I will leave you with this question. These guys are calling it a cancer that is destroying our country.
ERICKSON: Oh, absolutely. Yes.
SANCHEZ: Do you think that if we don't get this situation fixed -- I know you're coming at it from the right, but, look, we're all Americans.
ERICKSON: Yes. That's right.
SANCHEZ: We're all..
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: It's all our country.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I don't care if I'm red or blue in the end if everything gets screwed up. My kids will pay.
(CROSSTALK)
ERICKSON: Yes, we will absolutely crumble. How we fix it, that is the other debate.
SANCHEZ: Would you consider or would most or would anyone do you think on the right consider at some point saying, you know what, let's bite the bullet and raise taxes if we have to?
ERICKSON: If people consider that, then they're probably not on the right. We have got to cut spending first.
SANCHEZ: Well, but what if you do a combination of both?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Look, I don't want either. (CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I don't want -- I don't want poor people to go without. I don't want people to be -- I don't want to pay more taxes. I pay more than most people...
(CROSSTALK)
ERICKSON: I have no faith in government to actually rein in spending. If they're willing to cut spending first and prove it, then maybe we will consider it.
But every time we have cut taxes in this country, we have had to increase spending to get Democrats go along with the tax cuts. Let me see some cuts first.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But if the answer is the fact that we will ruin our country, then don't you have to say at some point I will do whatever it takes? Final question.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I know I have said this three times now.
ERICKSON: Yes. But, you know, what will it take? I say cut spending, stop doing a lot of things government is doing.
SANCHEZ: I agree.
ERICKSON: Why then do we have to raise taxes if we can cut spending? There are a lot of things the government does today the government should not be doing.
SANCHEZ: Because most people will tell you that cutting spending can't do it alone. But we will have to leave it at that. I will shake your hand and I will bring in your replacement now, which is Chad Myers, with another story that we're following which is extremely important.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Eric, always good to see you.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Get a shot of Chad over there on the map, because he wants to take you through some of this new information that we have been looking at. And I think -- look at this, Erick. This is fascinating. There is a possibility that they might be able to cap this thing once and for all...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: ... and seal that leak that we have been talking about in the Gulf of Mexico. And it may be happening possibly in the next couple of hours.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Sure. Could happen today.
They are they say 40 feet away. The new cap is 40 feet away from where the old cap now isn't. This is what it looked like days ago. I removed the oil. Let's just automatically remove the oil, if we could do that, and you would see that this is the old blowout preventer top that never did really work. The oil always came out the sides.
Take that away now, like they did this morning, and then we're left with this piece of junk on top that they had to cut off, where the kink was. That wasn't a very good straight piece of pipe anyway. They took a piece of metal.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: They took a big machine. They dropped it on here. They unscrewed the bolts and they took that piece away. Then they took another machine and they dropped it down and as it drops down, there it comes. It actually attached much better and there is a significantly better attachment point.
Look at that. Can you see that? Can you see how that sticks out there? That is going to be where the new cap comes in. Literally a new blowout preventer is going on top of the old blowout preventer. They're not calling it that. They're just calling it a cap.
As we lower the cap down, there are three valves that will literally shut off the oil. So, a new good seal here, a new good seal here, all of a sudden you turn the valves off and the oil stops, technically. We will see how it works. If it doesn't work perfectly and oil still comes out, that's OK.
They could still hook the new -- the old hose back up, the old pipe, the old riser pipe, still hook it up and take the oil out. That's worst-case scenario. They literally want to shut these valves off and stop the oil from coming out...
SANCHEZ: Boy, I will tell you...
MYERS: ... soon.
SANCHEZ: You know, your mouth to God's ears. Let's hope it happens.
And we just got this tweet. I want to share this with you.
MYERS: Go.
SANCHEZ: This is from Doug Suttles. We have obviously followed him carefully. He is one of the people we watch in the news.
Can you get it? Go ahead over. Swing over here, Robert. Folks at home already have gotten pretty accustomed to watching our studio from one end to the other.
"Even if containment cap is successful, we will -- we will need to continue with relief wells to ensure no oil will flow again."
All right. Those of you who don't know what he's talking about, what Chad just told you is step one, stop it from coming out where it is. Step two is drill another well, which they're doing.
Chad, take them through this. That one will all but ensure, if it works, that this won't be a problem in the future.
MYERS: The new well bit will get all the way down to where the first well starts basically.
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: They will fill that old well with concrete. And, literally, even if this blowout preventer In 15 years stops working or collapses or whatever or rusts out, it doesn't matter. The entire bit, the entire hole that goes down into the ground will be filled with concrete. No new oil will ever come out.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting.
And, by the way, those pictures that we were just showing you a minute ago, come with me, Robert, because I think -- I think what Chad is -- is talking about is the shot. It's almost like a separate well. I don't think. I know. The relief well is another well that literally will come down, yes, here right into the ground...
MYERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... and then continue through to stop this.
But there's another part of the story that I want to talk about now. And the other part of the story was handled by Amber Lyon magnificently last Friday.
MYERS: And I have questions for her, so don't let...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Do you?
MYERS: I got to break in.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Do you want to do this together?
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Yes, if I could.
SANCHEZ: Amber, you there?
AMBER LYON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey guys. I'm here. How you doing?
(CROSSTALK)
LYON: It's nice to talk to you from safer conditions. You know?
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
MYERS: Yes.
LYON: Above the water.
SANCHEZ: Job well done.
You were able to go underwater and you were able to see what all the scientists have been talking about, which is, when you mix the dispersant with the oil, the result is not so good, as they say.
What was it actually like being underwater now that we have you up here? I mean, was it -- was it gelatinous? Was it smooth? What did it feel like when you got out? Take us through it.
LYON: Well, this is what it looked like, Rick. And this was what so many people have been describing about this dispersant/crude mixture.
There were just little bitty pieces of almost beads of oil under the water and if you would move your hand they would kind of float with your hand. And I think that was so frustrating for me is because they were so tiny, it was hard to really capture that on camera, what was going on.
But those really worry scientists right now, especially because they just can't be cleaned up. Where oil that comes to the surface can be skimmed away, that oil that is sitting there in the water column that we were seeing on our dive cannot be cleaned up. BP's relying on Mother Nature to do it, bacteria, but environmentalists say that's dangerous.
The more bacteria you have chomping on oil, they're going to suck up oxygen and that could be deadly to other animals in the water, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Chad, you have a question?
MYERS: What did it smell like when you were out there?
LYON: Yes, Chad, go for it.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: One more time.
LYON: What? MYERS: Could you smell the oil when you were out there? Not underneath the water, because I know you were breathing good air, but when you were above on the boat could you feel, taste, smell the oil in the water?
LYON: No. We -- we actually couldn't and that was very surprising to me. It was the smell that was most surprising, but there was no smell. In addition to that, we didn't see a lot of those big oil slicks on top of the water that we're used to seeing.
But like I was saying in my piece that aired earlier today, you could fly over this spill. If you were on a boat and maybe went very quickly, you wouldn't really know what was going on until you stopped the boat and looked down and then when you looked into the water you could see all the little beads of oil and some of the little foamy froth of dispersed oil on top. But that's why people are referring to this as the hidden oil.
MYERS: When you got out of the boat and literally you took your hand and rubbed it on your old, dry suit that obviously the outside was wet, but the inside was dry, was it oily? Was it slimy? Could you feel it?
LYON: Yes, you could feel a little bit of slime going on there. And actually the inside of my suit was wet, unfortunately. It has a seal on it, a rubber seal that goes around your neck, and that seal had come loose a little bit.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
LYON: And so some of the water had gotten in the suit. And you could feel that it was a little bit slimy on your body.
SANCHEZ: Amber, you and I have a date cop up in about 20 minutes. We are going to show the video that you just referenced a little while ago and then you are going to join us again right here some time like 35 minutes after the hour.
Thanks, sir. Appreciate your explanation.
Let me come back here for a bit. I am going to take you through what we are going to have coming up for you. And, boy, you get tired covering a newscast when you have so many stories happening all at the same time.
One of the big stories that we're going to be following for you is the alleged Mel Gibson rant. Everybody's heated up about this one, especially those who have been listening to it. Some are saying he's gone nuclear. Even more sound from a tape reportedly of the actor insulting his ex-girlfriend.
And I have got to tell you, if nothing else, the scariest part of this rant is his breathing. I'm serious, his breathing. It's just -- well, it is what it is. That's ahead.
And then the death toll climbs in Uganda. Three bombs go off. But the real story here is what it says about al Qaeda in Africa and maybe the lesson they are now learning. We will take you through that as well.
One more thing. There's a workplace shooting that we have been reporting on. In case you haven't heard, as many as six people apparently are dead. Several people are wounded. As many as 10 may have been shot. This is in New Mexico, heck of a story. We're all over it. New pictures, new information.
Stay with us. As all this develops, I will bring it to you. This is RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez. And this is your national conversation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. What do we do during this hour? We take you from story to story and oftentimes we make lists that we follow, like this one. This is called the roundup list.
First, a deadly workplace shooting in New Mexico. Albuquerque police are saying 10 people were shot. At least six of them are dead. The police chief says it is a domestic violence situation that spilled over into a business. The man police believe was the shooter was one of those found dead at the Emcore Corporation. We're told he is also a former employee. One of his victims is thought to be his wife or girlfriend who worked there.
Here's number two. Now to East Africa, where a Somali-based affiliate of al Qaeda claims responsibility for killing at least 74 people in three bombings. It happened in Uganda yesterday as people were gathered to watch the World Cup final. One of those killed was an American. Uganda's president says a week of mourning for the victims starts tomorrow.
Now to Haiti, where six months after the devastating earthquake our reporters there say it looks like not much has changed. Many roads are still blocked by debris. Some experts predict it could take up to 20 years, 20 years just to remove all of the rubble from Port- au-Prince. The U.S. estimates 1.5 million people are still living in temporary camps.
Former President Bill Clinton is making his sixth trip to the nation since the earthquake occurred. He will be a guest, by the way, tonight on "A.C. 360" at 10:00 Eastern.
OK. Now some live pictures I want to show you of the new efforts to try and stop that underwater spill that we have been telling you about for so long. Now, Chad has been taking you through this. And we are going to be monitoring it. But there is a possibility that during the next hour or at least in the next couple of hours, the cap can be adjusted in such a way so that it will seal -- so that it will seal the leak in the Gulf of Mexico. And, boy, we're hoping they're right, but they are very close to making this happen.
And our correspondent is the first reporter to go diving into the spill. We are going to be talking to Amber Lyon once again coming up here in just a little bit.
Also, within the next two hours, Cuban leader Fidel Castro is expected to make a live appearance on Cuban television. I'm going to be sticking around, because Wolf Blitzer has asked me to be a guest on his show to help take him through the Castro speech. And I'm also going to be speaking to a man who has been part of the Cuban exile movement in South Florida in just a little bit to take us through Fidel Castro's latest pictures.
There they are, by the way.
We will be right back. Stay with us. This is your national conversation. This is RICK'S LIST. And I'm Rick Sanchez.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Next up on the LIST: Fidel Castro. Heard of him?
In less than two hours, we expect to hear from the former Cuban leader. Here are the latest pictures of him published in a pro-Castro blog. CNN can't confirm when exactly the photos were taken, but the blog says it's from last Wednesday.
Today, the Cuban state media published a column by Castro where he warns of a possible nuclear war between the United States and Iran.
Joe Garcia is a former director of the Cuban American National Foundation, CANF, as we used to call it.
You cut your hair.
(LAUGHTER)
JOE GARCIA, CUBAN AMERICAN NATIONAL FOUNDATION: I saw your tweet earlier today, because I follow you, and, yes, I -- my wife finally made me cut the locks.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I mean, you were like the last holdout. For years, you had that lion's mane of hair. What are you, becoming a Wall Street banker or something?
GARCIA: You know, I'm -- I'm running for office, Rick. They like you to look like a congressman when you run for Congress is what happens.
SANCHEZ: All right, let's not talk about office today. Let's talk about Fidel Castro, since you have been part of this for so long.
First question, because here is what's going on. This is interesting. Last week, we understand, they're going to let go of some political prisoners -- political prisoners.
(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: Another way of saying perfectly innocent people who have done nothing wrong criminally and are behind bars simply for criticizing the government of Cuba, so, just to clarify what we're talking about here.
GARCIA: Correct.
SANCHEZ: Those folks are freed. Kudos to the Cuban government for doing so. Now Castro comes out and is seen by the world media, so to speak. Is this guy still in charge?
GARCIA: Well, I think that's why he's doing this.
Let me go back, because I don't think it's kudos to the Cuban government. I think it's kudos to the civil society and in particular what's fascinating about this is he used an internal institution.
As you know, Rick, as someone who has covered Cuba for many, many years, typically, he would hand these people over to a foreign dignitary, a foreign government, someone not of Cuba. But clearly here he has used the Catholic Church as an intermediary. That is an internal institution of the island.
The cardinal of Cuba called the prisoners directly himself and told them that they would be released in short order. I think that's impressive. But on the second is that he's telling everybody, hey, listen, this isn't my brother. I'm still in charge, right?
(LAUGHTER)
GARCIA: Let us be clear. You might have thought my brother is a little bit softer than I am. Just let's be clear. My name is Fidel Castro. I have been in full control of Cuba. And even now, while I may be sick and while I may look like bloody hell, I'm still in control of Cuba.
SANCHEZ: Can whoever is watching this newscast please put an edit point there where he started talking, my name is Fidel Castro, and I may be looking like bloody hell, but I'm still in charge?
You know, I got that sense, and I know that we haven't confirmed it's actually him in the pictures. But I have never really believed many of the stories about his demise. I believe the guy, as they say, the horse, is still there and still kicking and still from time to time will literally place himself in the news cycle. And I also believe what he ultimately really wants is the lifting of the U.S. embargo. Am I wrong?
GARCIA: Well, I think what Fidel wants and what he says are two different things.
I often think no one enjoys the embargo with the United States more than Fidel Castro. It is the perfect excuse for a complete failed social experiment, which is communism in Cuba.
And I think you stated it, but let's be clear. This is a repressive, brutal regime that has not had an election in half-a- century, in which he has controlled, completely and quite literally has created a monarchy. Now, he has given up power in theory and his brother has taken over, but what is clear is that he wants to make sure that everyone understands he is still in charge.
What is certain is that this was a great victory by Cuba's civil society, both the prisoner who went on a hunger strike and literally perished...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But, Joe, does it take it to the next level? I mean, we know there are some very conservative,-fiscally minded Republicans in the Farm Belt of the United States who have long been pushing for the United States to lift the embargo against Cuba so that we can make economic ties which will eventually help the Cuban people prosper. That's the argument that's out there.
And it comes mostly from the Midwest. It also comes from the left, by the way.
GARCIA: Yes
SANCHEZ: Will this event from last week hasten any action by this administration to actually lift the embargo against Cuba? And here is the way I ask it again. Should they lift the embargo against Cuba? As a Cuban-American, your thoughts?
GARCIA: Well, look, I don't think we should overreact to what we have seen. Certainly, the president made the first step by lifting restrictions on Cubans to travel to the island and allowing them to send food and assistance to their family members.
The U.S. is right now Cuba's biggest seller of food and medicine. That is a good thing. I think the president took an action. Let's see what the Cuban government does from now forward, because, Rick, you began with a very simple statement. He released people who should have never been in jail.
SANCHEZ: Correct. Yes.
GARCIA: That means tomorrow he can arrest another 300 and negotiate with them.
The Cuban government is simply looking to take off pressure that it was receiving. It has acted in its own self-interest to release these folks. Let's see where this takes us. But what we need to do is be cautious, but pragmatic. We know that the food and assistance that Cubans are giving to the island are good for broad Cuban society.
I think that's why the president's policy is headed in the right direction. Let's see what other steps the Cuban regime takes. But it is certainly...
SANCHEZ: We will see.
GARCIA: ... a good thing that they have been released.
SANCHEZ: You look very clean, my friend.
(LAUGHTER)
GARCIA: I hope that -- I hope I always look clean, but I look clean-cut. Let's say that.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Clean-cut. I have never seen this look on Joe Garcia before. I'm...
(CROSSTALK)
GARCIA: Rick, all I can tell you is what I miss when we're -- Cuba stories -- remembering in South Florida standing in front of those Channel 7 huge maps as you pointed out what was happening in Cuba.
SANCHEZ: Wow. Some people down there still remember me, I hear.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Thanks, Joe. Always a pleasure. Look forward to seeing you again.
GARCIA: It's good talking to you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Maybe with the hair.
Joe Garcia.
All right, by the way, we hope to be able to continue the perspectives on this. A lot is said when we talk about issues related to Cuba. Tomorrow, there is a good chance that we are also going to talk with Republican State Representative David Rivera on this newscast about the situation in Cuba.
Oh, yes. There is more of Mel Gibson's alleged rant, by the way, against his ex-girlfriend, and it is ugly. So, does it sound like him? We are going to let you judge for yourself. That's coming up in just a little bit.
And the Twitter boards are just lighting up about what Mel has been saying. But, you know, before we go to break, I do want to show you one thing that's like a caveat to the conversation we just had about Fidel Castro.
You all know who -- Andy Borowitz, right? He's a really funny guy, big, tall, skinny guy, big nose. Funny, though, funny, funny. Andy Borowitz is his name. Here's what he just tweeted. "Fidel Castro to appear on TV tonight." That's true. I'm going to be on Wolf Blitzer's show today to help him with his coverage.
He goes on to write, "Will announce he is going to the Miami Heat."
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Precious.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: By the way, we've got so much coming your way, including everything going on with Mr. Gibson. But first, take a look at this.
I haven't read those, so let's not put those up. I haven't read those. Let's come back. Come back. Come back. Come back.
Let's go and do the tease.
Here's what's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I would say it's going to be very, very difficult for them to get him to court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Is it over? Switzerland rejects the U.S. extradition order for Roman Polanski. Can the Swiss do that? And why do that? That's ahead.
That's right, Polanski back in the news. Which list do you think he's on?
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Right now, BP is still working on that new containment cap.
Can we get some shots of that? Because we've got some new pictures, to BP's credit, which they put out today.
Now, there's part of the pact (ph) that we've been showing you. They show different pictures at different times.
This is important. Why is this important? Because as we speak, and as you look at some of those pictures there, you will see that BP is in the process of recapping the spill in the Gulf. I know it's a promise that's been made before and has not been met, but they say that this time things are going to be very different, and for reasons -- as you see Chad Myers take you through the explanation -- it really is a different strategy than we've seen before.
But back to me, in the meantime, what we have left in the Gulf of Mexico are the remnants of the dispersants and the oil that we've seen there for quite sometime. Nobody has been able to take you down there and actually let you experience and see it until our own correspondent and one of our contributors did so.
This is Amber Lyon with Philippe Cousteau. You saw part of this last Friday. Here's what it looked like.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LYON: So we're taking three small boats. We're heading down the Mississippi. From there, we're going to head out into the Gulf.
BRUCE BUCHANAN, EMERGENCY RESPONSE DIVERS INTERNATIONAL: What we're doing is we're actually -- if you ever wash dishes, you put a glove on to keep your hands dry while you're washing dishes. Well, we're doing the same thing, only we're doing this with our whole complete bodies.
LYON (voice-over): BP has pumped more than 1.5 million gallons of dispersant into the Gulf, breaking up the crude into little beads that stay under the water. We went on a dive to search for that hidden oil.
PHILIPPE COUSTEAU, ENVIRONMENTALIST: I don't want to have to be here. And if I was here, I would want to be doing like a free dive off of one of these rigs or something with a bathing suit on.
LYON (on camera): It just screws, pops right into the suit, and keeps any water from getting on your hands. If this looks uncomfortable, it is.
(voice-over): CNN photo journalist Rich Brooks went in first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rich entering.
RICH BROOKS, CNN PHOTOJOURNALIST: Well, there's a couple of sharks swimming by. They're just curious, coming around to check out what's going on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You OK, Amber?
LYON (on camera): Yes, I'm good to go. You OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
LYON: We're about 48 miles away from the Deepwater Horizon spill. And if you look in the water, you can see that it's cloudy right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the oil is confined to the surface. It is distributed throughout the water column.
LYON: I was talking to BP's COO, Doug Suttles. One of the main things I said is, " How is it going to be cleaned up?" Because there is no technology to come down here and skim this out of here, and what he said is that bacteria will eat it all up. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, yes, there is bacteria that consumes oil in the water. What scientists are finding is that bacteria also consumes oxygen. So that when you get these dead zones that don't have enough oxygen literally in the water column for all the other animals --
LYON (voice-over): At the end of the day, we ran into a patch of dispersed oil that stretched as far as we could see.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to go.
(on camera): You can see all around us, it's very cloudy. This is a lot of dispersed oil.
You know, if you were to fly over this area, you'd probably look down and you wouldn't really be able to tell that there was oil here, because it's kind of become the hidden oil.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Amber Lyon joins us now from New Orleans.
Boy, you were sending me e-mails as you were planning to do this, and as I read those e-mails I always wondered, is she going to be able to pull this thing off? I mean, this is a heck of a thing to try and do, to go under water and do a live shot under water.
I thought I did some crazy stuff that ended me on Jon Stewart's show. This was nuts. And you know what? It was informative and it worked.
LYON: Yes, that's right, Rick. We're just really happy it worked. A lot went into that.
You don't really see behind the scenes. We had three boats, 12 people out there trying to make all of this come together. And in the end, all the pieces of this puzzle fit perfectly and we were able to go live on your show. I think for the majority of the show, you guys were watching the drama unfold as my mask was getting water in it and the sharks were swimming around us.
Correct?
SANCHEZ: Well, what was cool was I was actually asking you questions. I would relate the questions to your producer who was on the boat, who then somehow -- don't even try and explain to me how he did this -- would communicate to you under water. The audience heard the question, and then heard you and Philippe respond to the questions.
That was different.
LYON: It totally revolutionizes the way we can cover some of these underwater stories, Rick, because we can instantly show people what's going on underneath there with this oil. And that's what was so cool about these live shots, is we were able to, live on air, show everybody the little droplets of dispersed oil, millions of them, that were in the water with us.
And although you couldn't see on camera -- I've been watching the footage over and over -- the little bitty droplets of oil, what you could see was that the water was cloudy. And that's, overall, ,what was going on down there with these dispersants.
SANCHEZ: Well, I'll tell you what, great stuff, great work, courageous and gutsy to try something which could have, you know, ended up looking like someone's vault and had us with egg on our face. But the viewers really appreciated it. I got tons of tweets, tons of e-mails.
Job well done. Look forward to talking to you again, Amber.
LYON: Hey, thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: And welcome aboard.
LYON: Thanks, Rick. You know, as a scuba diver -- and I'm sure a lot of scuba divers out there can relate -- the first thing I thought when I saw the well blow back in April was, what the heck's going on underneath that water?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
LYON: And it frustrated me so much because as a journalist, you know how it is. You have so much curiosity. And to actually be able to have the opportunity to enter that water and see what was going on, to me that was a huge privilege, not something that I was really scared about.
SANCHEZ: Job well done.
Amber Lyon. You'll be seeing a lot more of her.
Thanks.
All right. We've been hearing a lot about Mel Gibson's alleged rant recently. Well, now there is audio, and you're going to be hearing it. And yes, boy, have you been tweeting me about this one. I'm going to share some of those with you in just a little bit.
Stay with us.
I'm Rick Sanchez. This is your national conversation.
We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST.
Roman Polanski apparently won't face justice in this country, and for many people that is an outrage. Guess which list he's landing on? That's coming up in just a little bit. Meantime, we're going to tell you the very latest on what's going on in the Gulf of Mexico. And as that develops, we're going to show you once again whether there is a possibility that during this hour, you will still be able to see -- or maybe during the next -- the actual capping, the new capping of the Gulf of Mexico, where they will seal that pipe once and for all. That's what they're hoping for.
If and when it happens, we'll see it right here.
We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Here we go. As promised, number one, our number one pick today on "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On." He is, interestingly enough, a free man.
Roman Polanski, whose name will forever be followed by the words "Oscar-winning director," will always also be always known for something that happened more than 30 years ago. According to court documents we have reviewed, back in 1977, when he was 43 years old -- 43 years old, not 19 -- he gave drugs to a 13-year-old girl and then had sex with her in a hot tub.
Prosecutors dropped rape and other charges in exchange for his guilty plea, but then he skipped town, left the country before he could be sentenced for his crimes. The L.A. deputy district attorney called him a "fugitive child rapist."
As of today, technically he is no longer a fugitive. Today, the Swiss government announced they will not extradite him to the United States to face sentencing.
They let him out of jail on bail months ago pending extradition. But now they will not extradite him.
What this means is that Polanski will no longer be confined to his Swiss chalet where he was. I kid not. Now he can go anywhere while he remains on top of our "List That U Don't Want 2 Be On."
How are the bomb blasts in Uganda affecting anti-terrorist strategy here? What message should be in all of this for Africa? Is it one we've known for some time and they are just now recognizing?
That's next on THE LIST.
Stay right there. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
Wolf Blitzer is joining me now, and he's asked me to join him today at 6:00 so that we can talk about the situation in Cuba.
You know, I spent a lot of time down at Florida International University, where I'm from, just like you spend a lot of time working with kids in colleges in the Buffalo area, where you're from. And I was just reading -- FIU just did a study in their Cuban studies program down there, where they found that the majority of Cuban exiles or Cuban-Americans living in south Florida believe that we should lift the embargo.
Now, that's a --
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Are these young people? Are these just young people?
SANCHEZ: No, everybody.
BLITZER: Really?
SANCHEZ: I mean, a study of Cuban-Americans living in the United States and mostly south Florida Cuban exiles found they want the embargo lifted, which is a 2008 study, which is totally different than what you would think the hard-line position has always been in south Florida.
BLITZER: Yes. There's been -- you know this subject better than anyone. There's been a shift, obviously, over the years as they take a look and see what's going on in Cuba.
They want things to change. They see the embargo hasn't really had the dramatic impact that so many Cuban-Americans and other Americans really wanted to achieve. And as a result, they're saying, well, maybe a different strategy might work to engage them -- have Cuban-Americans go there more frequently, let other views get into that country. You know, I see both sides of the argument, as I know you did.
Earlier today, when I heard Fidel Castro was going to be speaking live during the 6:00 p.m. Eastern hour, I said to our producers -- I said, "You know what? See if Rick Sanchez will stay a little bit later and join us, because he knows this subject. He's passionate about it."
You obviously speak Spanish. He'll be speaking Spanish. You'll listen, you'll tell us what he's talking about, and we'll have some live coverage. This is an historic moment, and I want our viewers to be fully aware of what's going on with Fidel Castro in Cuba.
SANCHEZ: Happy to help, Wolf. Happy to help.
By the way, this situation in Uganda today, I think it's interesting. It's one of those stories where, as I was talking with Berntsen (ph) just little while ago, you see and hear people around the world literally thinking that al Qaeda, for example, because they took on the United States, because they took on the giants, that they should be credited.
But when you see an event like this one where they kill innocents, it kind of turns that story around for them. In many ways -- I know it's horrible for people to die, like 64 people in this case, but in many ways it worked -- 74.
Thank you, Angie.
Seventy-four people have died in this case. But it kind of works to get the message across that these guys, these are not just a political movement. These are people who kill innocent people.
BLITZER: I think it is going to really shake folks up, especially in Africa.
I just spent a little time in South Africa over the past few weeks and, you know, folks in Africa are going to say, why would Al- Shabaab, which is really an arm of al Qaeda, go into Uganda and just randomly kill all these folks as they're watching the World Cup final championship game for no reason other than the fact that Uganda sent troops into Somalia, together with Burundi, to try to ease the situation in Somalia and bring some stability to that country? So, they go and brutally kill all these people brutally, and it just reinforces this notion of what these terrorist groups are all about.
SANCHEZ: Oh, absolutely. It works against them in every conceivable way.
But I know it's going to be a big part of the conversation today, as well as the situation with Fidel Castro and his brother Raul. Which one is actually in charge? You heard Joe Garcia (ph) say he still thinks Fidel is in charge.
We'll talk some more about that, Wolf Blitzer. Thanks so much for taking time for us.
BLITZER: And thanks, Rick, for sticking around.
SANCHEZ: All right. No problem.
By the way, if you thought it was over, it's not. There is more of Mel Gibson's alleged rant. There's a lot of heavy breathing as well. Bizarre breathing is maybe a better way of saying it.
You're going to hear it right here.
By the way, did you hear his talent agency? His talent agency has said we don't want any part of him anymore. They've dropped him. What's next?
Well, THE LIST continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It's the story that keeps on giving.
The Killingsworth (ph) family is here from Hialeah, and they're good enough to join us in the studio.
Welcome, guys. Good to see you.
Hialeah, Florida, no less. They're dressed like they're from Hialeah, Florida, by the way.
On the list again, Mel Gibson. Another day, another alleged tirade. And it's ugly.
By now you know his history of racist, misogynistic rants, right? 2006, in a drunken meltdown, he refers to a female officer's breasts with the word "sugar" in front of it, and then goes on to blame the Jews for all of the world's problems.
Last week we told you about the really awful things he allegedly said to his ex-girlfriend, Oksana Grigorieva. The two of them are fighting over custody of their 8-month-old daughter.
In that outburst, in an audiotape that Radar Online says is the two of them, the man believed to be Gibson basically says that she deserves to be raped. And it gets even worse than that.
I want to warn you, the language is a little rough here, but this is what everyone's talking about on the Internet, and this isn't all of it. This is just a snippet.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You go out in public and it's (EXPLETIVE DELETED) embarrassment to me. You look like a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on heat, and if you get raped by a pack of (EXPLETIVE DELETED) it's your fault. All right? Because you provoked it.
You are provocatively dressed all the time with your fake (EXPLETIVE DELETED) that you feel you have to show off.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's just a little. It gets a lot worse.
And if you thought it was bad, here's the latest alleged audio of the two. And it's even worse if you can believe it. This time there's a death threat.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You almost killed us. Did you forget?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last three years have been a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) gravy train for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were hitting a woman with a child in her hands. You. What kind of man is that, hitting a woman when she is holding a child in her hands, breaking her teeth twice in the face? What kind of man is that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you are all angry now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got what you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deserved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're going to answer one day. Boy, you're going to answer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huh? What? Are you threatening me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing, nothing. I'm not the one to threaten.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll threaten you. I'll put you in the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) rose garden, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I want to bring in Marvet Britto. She has been following this story for us.
Police in Malibu say they're going to be investigating Gibson apparently for alleged domestic violence and incident involving some of what they've heard on this tape.
What do you make of that?
MARVET BRITTO, ENTERTAINMENT, PR & BRAND SPECIALIST: I think they should. I mean, apparently he has really deep-rooted issues, and I think that, really, this is a Mel Gibson that we're seeing going out of control.
He's really displaying habitual, irrational behavior, and I think that this is really a cause for alarm. Not only for him personally, but to anyone around him, and particularly the woman that he has been involved with, the mother of his child.
SANCHEZ: You know, they say that guys like this, they can overcome this, that people don't expect these people in Hollywood to be normal. After all, they're in Hollywood, et cetera, et cetera. But I understand today, and correct me if I'm wrong, that his -- the William Morris Agency, where he's been a client for like 30 years, has dropped him.
Is this kind of the beginning of what often becomes the tumultuous effect of these things, you believe?
BRITTO: I believe so. Ed Limato has been Mel Gibson's longtime agent for well over 32 years, and in many ways he was a father figure, someone who shielded Mel throughout all the turmoil that he has seen in his career. But now Ed Limato, sadly, has passed away, and now that shield and incubator does not exist anymore.
So it's going to be open season for Mel Gibson, and those who have supported him will continue to support him. But one of those big supporters was his agent, and I think that you're going to see many people step away from Mel. SANCHEZ: Marvet, give me a one-word response to this question, because that's all the time we have left. I just listened to the tape. I know what mine is.
What's yours?
BRITTO: Shocking.
SANCHEZ: When you heard this tape -- what is it?
BRITTO: Shocking. Shocking. Unbelievable. And someone who has built such a tremendous career. He is spiraling out of control.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much, Marvet. We appreciate you taking the time to take us through this.
And here now, Wolf Blitzer in your "SITUATION ROOM."
