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Rick's List
NAACP Takes on Tea Party; Mosque at Ground Zero?
Aired July 14, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks so much, Alison. Appreciate you being there for us.
ALSON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You got it.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: As we begin this next hour, we continue on, I'm honored to report that we are the news of record for American Forces Network.
And we welcome all the troops, as well as all of you all over the country, but them, too, the guys who are fighting for us all over the world and representing us.
Here is our national conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here is what is making the LIST today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My family died that day!
SANCHEZ: Tempers flare over plans to build a mosque at ground zero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A monument to terrorism.
SANCHEZ: Why the vehement opposition?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's called Islamophobia.
SANCHEZ: We will give you the facts, and you decide.
A Tea Party group's billboard compares the U.S. president to Stalin and Hitler. The NAACP fires back with a historic vote.
Who is saying that some students have bigger brains than others?
Then, three, two, one, bye-bye.
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's landed on the list you don't want to be on? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list.
Pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: OK. At the top of the LIST right now, we have been committed to showing you what's going on in the Gulf of Mexico. We have got live pics, so let's use them.
Show them, Danno, if you got them. There it is.
This is probably the money shot, wouldn't you say, Chad?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: I would.
SANCHEZ: Yes, because...
MYERS: That's the oil coming out of the top of the new cap, because it's not capped yet.
SANCHEZ: Well, here's what we know. There's been a delay in the integrity testing.
Before you start wondering whether this is another failure -- and, you know, there have been many of them when it comes to this process -- this is not necessarily a failure. It's really more of a precaution. We're going to take you through this.
Something somewhere did happen along the way that made the government say, well, wait a minute, we have got some concerns here. Before you completely cap that thing, let's be careful that by stopping the pressure here, you don't create a blowout somewhere else, and let's make sure we, you know, dot our I's and cross our T's to avoid any kind of nightmarish scenario down under, if you know what I mean.
So, as we go through this and -- and talk about the importance of this realization, this precaution, I want to bring in Chad, as usual. He is always like my right-hand man on this stuff.
And then, Chad, we have got the professor from Houston back.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Let's go to him, too.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: ... Don Van Nieuwenhuise, who is a petroleum expert from the University of Houston.
Professor, I'm going to start with you, because you and I were talking the other day, and you were quite confident that this thing was going to be -- that this thing was going to work and that it was going to be expeditious.
Well, we still believe, I believe, that it's going to work. Do you? And as far as the expeditiousness part goes, well, maybe not so fast, right?
DONALD VAN NIEUWENHUISE, GEOLOGIST, UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON: Absolutely.
What we're seeing here is -- is the well is being held up, and, of course, the scientific team has asked that they slow down and take a closer look at a number of issues. Now, I still think that, even if the cap cannot be sealed, they do have production capability that can tie into this new cap that will allow them to produce most of the oil. So, one way or the other, they should be able to reduce the flow, if not completely...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You confused me there. When you say produce most of the oil, you mean extract most of the oil, right?
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Absolutely. They would extract most of the oil using the production facilities that they have.
That would be the Q4000. The Enterprise is moving back online, and also they have got the Helix Producer coming online and they could produce up to 80,000 barrels using the LMRP that has two ports and then this new cap has three additional ports that they could...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, you're saying they could -- I mean, and I'm going to talk like a layman. I know you are a professor, but I'm talking to an audience, none of which -- or most of which don't have your understanding of this.
It would essentially be like just being able to put a really nice hose, tightly fitting hose, on top of that cap that they have already there and just extract the oil.
But as I recall last time they tried to do something like this, there were all kinds of problems with hydrates and pressures, and they got all freaked out, and then just stopped the whole darned thing. Why do you believe they can do it now, when they couldn't do it then?
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Well, now they're not trying to force any pressure into the well. They're actually trying to pull pressure out of the well. They could actually produce it at a rate to actually reduce some of that pressure that we're all concerned about by overproducing, actually, the amount of oil that's coming out.
And if, for example, there's 60,000 barrels coming out of that well, and they try to produce up to 65,000 or 70,000, they could actually be drawing pressure off the well and actually protecting the well that we're concerned about with all the potential damage.
MYERS: Professor, why aren't they just...
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: And...
MYERS: Why don't they have a hose hooked up to that oil that is coming out there right now? We will call it a riser, whatever. Why aren't they just trapping that? Why is it just going into the ocean? VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Well, they could cap it, but I think what they want to still do is I think they still want to try closing the valves and they don't want the -- that riser pipe in the way when they're doing that.
And, of course, one of the issues when they were lowering this unit, this whole package on to the LMRP package, I don't know if you noticed, but the riser pipe that had perforations in it...
MYERS: Yes, it's gone.
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Yes, it was gone, but the oil wasn't coming out of it as violently as it should have, and it may have slowed the flow a bit, so that, when they actually lowered the cap, they could have put some back pressure on the well that was unintentional that could have caused some damage, and that might be what they're checking to make sure they didn't suffer any damage when they lowered the cap into position.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask both of you guys this question.
I know, Chad, you have been following it. And you are a scientist -- following it. And you're a scientist in your own right.
And, Professor, obviously you do, too.
I get a sense from talking to both of you that you're pretty confident, maybe more confident than you have been in the past, that there may be some resolution to this thing fairly quickly here, either an extraction device that gets the oil out or an actual stoppage by using this new blowout preventer, as we have been calling it.
Do you both agree with that, or am I wrong?
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Yes?
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Well, I do.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: I do as well.
MYERS: Just because now we have a good seal. That old cap that was on that bent riser pipe that they cut off so poorly...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MYERS: ... because it was crooked and bent and it was bad and that cap that they put on top of the LMRP was not a good fit. Now we have a good fit. Now we have a good seal. Now we can hook up enough things to this to literally, as the professor was saying, produce the oil or get it to the surface and get it on a boat, get it on a ship, and take it to shore.
The problem is, if a hurricane comes, you have to disconnect all of that stuff.
SANCHEZ: Professor, I just am wondering, since you said it was, in fact, and we reported it was the government that forced them to change their -- their agenda as far as the time goes, because we were looking at getting this done maybe part of yesterday, late into yesterday. Now we're looking at maybe the next 24 hours.
Do you agree with the government's precautionary tone here forcing them to take a step back and re-look at the potential before they move forward? Do you agree with that decision by the government?
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: What I think is, if the government scientists are confused about the data, they need to settle that dispute and figure out exactly what the issues are that are causing them to be concerned.
I think Chad mentioned earlier in your show today that they are concerned about differential pressure. And the biggest concern in terms of differential pressure is near the top of the well. If you have a leak in the lower parts of the well, it does cause problems.
But the confining pressure lower in the well is going to be much greater, so the chance of a significant rupture that could cause problems say at the bottom of the 18-inch casing or at the bottom of the nine-and-seven-eighths-casing, that is not as serious as if they happen to rupture some of the thick casing that is wrapped around it near the top of the wellhead or even more importantly some of the seals that put the wellhead spool into place.
SANCHEZ: So, you just made some news here. I'm -- I'm glad I asked you that question. You just said that this idea that by forcing the pressure from the top, we could create a devastating blowout at the bottom, you're saying that can't happen. There is too much pressure down at the bottom already to -- that would control that from happening, right?
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Well, what I didn't say was I didn't say that it couldn't leak, but you're not going to have a tremendous amount of force.
SANCHEZ: A catastrophic -- yes, a catastrophic blowout...
(CROSSTALK)
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Right, because -- because, at the bottom, you have higher pressures. For example, at the bottom of the well, the pressure is 11,000 pounds, and you only have 11,000 pounds to push on it. So, there is no real damage there.
If you come up to the 18-inch casing, you're at about 9,000 feet, and the pressure there, the confining pressure is around 7,000. The pressure coming out of the well is about 8,700. But at that point, it would probably be closer to nine. So, your differential pressure is still only 2,000 pounds.
But when you get to the very top, the differential pressure is all the way up to 6,000 pounds. And that's where it can become a problem, because a single pipe could be ruptured at 5,000 PSI differential pressure.
SANCHEZ: It sounds like -- you know, it's interesting, because it makes perfect sense, what he is saying.
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: And...
MYERS: It does.
SANCHEZ: But, if you go back to the government -- and -- and maybe they need to hear that, because they're saying, wait a minute. Let's do the calculations before we move forward.
But I'm confident, judging from what both of you are saying, that, in the next 24 hours, we're going to get some kind of movement on this thing.
MYERS: Professor, what you're saying is that a rupture on the very bottom of the well, 18,000 feet down...
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: ... is not as significant as a rupture that's only five feet from the bottom of the ocean surface because of how the oil would be coming out and the force from underground pushing it up. Are we getting -- are we getting you right on that one?
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Because I think I said the exact opposite earlier.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Absolutely. Yes, but what you just said is exactly right.
SANCHEZ: There you go.
VAN NIEUWENHUISE: That is exactly what it is.
SANCHEZ: Gentlemen, we are going to have to leave it there. And that's why we have these discussions. You know, we learn...
MYERS: Absolutely.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: ... as we talk to people who know about this type of stuff.
Thanks, Chad.
Thank you, Professor.
We will stay on this, obviously, continue asking questions and continue following these developments 5,000 feet below the surface of the Gulf of Mexico like this country has never followed before.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN JEALOUS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NAACP: Expel the bigots and racists in your ranks, or take full responsibility for all of their actions.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JEALOUS: We will no longer allow you to hide like cowards behind signs that say lynch our president or anyone else!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: In addition to the crude signs at some of the protest rallies, a Tea Party group sponsored this billboard comparing President Obama to Hitler and Stalin. Now, we have been showing you part of that. And it's all part of the big picture going on in this country. There is a debate which is stirred now by the NAACP firing back at the Tea Party, accusing them of being bigoted. We will debate both perspectives of this story ahead. And expect fireworks, folks.
Also, breaking news about a drug that many of you probably take every single day. It's called Avandia. We have just learned -- and this is important, because CNN has been following this story for the better part of the last couple of weeks -- the -- an FDA panel has just made an important decision that you will want to hear about Avandia. And you will probably want to discuss this with your doctor.
Stay there. I will have this for you as soon as we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Breaking news developments, as I mentioned to you just moments ago, a decision that affects people who have type 2 diabetes. If you or someone you know in your family does, there is a possibility that they are taking a certain drug. It's called Avandia.
And there is a very important decision to share with you on Avandia that could affect you or one of your loved ones.
So, joining me now is Caleb Hellerman. He's one of CNN's senior medical producers. He heard about this information and hustled down to the set to catch us up.
All right. What -- who made this decision and what are they saying about Avandia?
CALEB HELLERMAN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL PRODUCER: Hey, Rick.
This is -- this came at -- this vote came at the end of a two-day meeting of an FDA advisory panel. These are experts on the subject. They talk about diabetes, endocrine disorders, and also drug safety.
SANCHEZ: Right.
HELLERMAN: Listening for two days to people, reading reports, hearing about Avandia, does it have a link to heart problems? And this advisory panel just came out with a kind of strange vote. There's 33 people on it.
Twelve of them said to pull it off the market. Another about 17 people said they need a stronger warning or it should be restricted, where maybe only certain doctors can prescribe it.
SANCHEZ: So, it sounds like everybody on that committee is giving some kind of cautionary tone about Avandia.
HELLERMAN: They are.
SANCHEZ: Whether it's pull it off the market or this or that, it all sounds to me like if I were taking the medication, I would want to know what they say.
HELLERMAN: Absolutely. They were all very concerned about it. They were just -- they were a little confused. They were very concerned. And actually the biggest vote was to pull it off the market.
SANCHEZ: And, again, it's that this drug is prone, not guaranteed, but there is a possibility you could have a heart attack if you take this?
HELLERMAN: Absolutely. There's been some -- that's the concern, not proven. That's what they were arguing about.
SANCHEZ: Why has this drug on the market? This is not new information. We have been hearing this for some time. Why have they been able to continue to have this drug manufacturer -- who is the lab on this, by the way?
HELLERMAN: It's GlaxoSmithKline.
SANCHEZ: Why have they continued to keep it out there?
HELLERMAN: Well, the critics are saying exactly that. And the big blowup came in 2007. There was an article in "The New England Journal of Medicine" said this causes a big increase in heart attacks.
SANCHEZ: So, they denied it?
HELLERMAN: And the company, meanwhile, says, hey, we got six studies saying, no, it doesn't; it's fine.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Let me ask you a question. A lot of folks who are -- here's the hearing, by the way. These are live pictures from this hearing -- that are going on now on this drug Avandia that we're bringing you the highlights of now.
You want to dip in for just a little bit? Let's just dip in and see what these -- let's see what these things sound like for 30 seconds.
(LAUGHTER)
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that bar, that very low bar.
I just want to say one other thing, which is that -- I alluded to this yesterday -- I would urge, before FDA takes any further action I think it would do more work on this. I don't think we understand what's going on here. I think, assuming that these signals are correct, we don't understand them.
And notwithstanding the comment about, you know, the -- the road to hell being paved by this or that, a lot of which I agree with, by the way...
SANCHEZ: This is interesting. You listen to these guys and they're going to be going back and forth.
Let me ask you maybe one of the most important questions, because this is the utility question, as we like to call it. If I have diabetes, and I'm now taking Avandia, is there another drug or are there other drugs out there that I can take that would be proper substitutes?
HELLERMAN: Yes. I'm not a doctor, so obviously this is the kind of thing you want to talk over with your doctor, but there are quite a few other drugs on the market. Probably, the most people I think take Metformin.
SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm.
HELLERMAN: There's also a very similar drug to Avandia called Actos which acts very similarly, used for the same types of patients.
SANCHEZ: The point is, they're not out in the cold.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: These folks aren't in the cold. There's other stuff out there that they can use.
HELLERMAN: A lot of doctors would say better safe than story.
SANCHEZ: Great stuff, Caleb. Thanks for coming down.
(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: Always appreciate you hustling down here and sharing that information with us.
By the way, we will let you know as this story moves on. If there is anything else in that hearing that we need to share with you, we will.
One thing to claim the president -- one thing is to claim that the president is a socialist, right? But there's a Tea Party group...
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: ... that's maybe a little confused about what they the president is. Is -- is he a socialist, way to the left? Or is he something more akin to Hitler, way to the right? Is it Stalin? Is it Hitler, Mussolini? What is it? The NAACP says it's had enough of people fighting back against the president of the United States on what they call racist grounds, and they're going to be talking about that, and so are we. Big debate.
Also, new video surfaces of the man who purportedly tried to bomb Times Square. The reasons behind the plot make our roundup list. We are going to be right back. This is your national conversation, RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You know one of the things that we like to do is bring you lists of all types. And this is one of the lists that we bring you every day at this time. We take all the stories and we put them into something called the roundup list.
Number one: An Arabic-language network says this is a suicide message from Faisal Shahzad, who pled guilty in trying to blow up a car in Times Square last May. The man on the tape calls the plot a revenge attack to avenge the deaths of Muslims and Arabs. We don't know exactly when or where the video was made, but it was some time before the failed attack.
Here is number two. The war in Afghanistan keeps getting bloodier for too many American troops. Eight U.S. troops have been killed over the past two days, fell victim to car bombs and gun fights. Three of them died when insurgents attacked a police base in Kandahar. The violence is increasing, as coalition troops try to secure Southern Afghanistan and the Taliban continues to push back.
Number three: A teenager police call the Barefoot Bandit -- you have heard of him -- is back in the United States. Colton Harris- Moore was scheduled to appear in court in Miami this afternoon, but this date with a judge was postponed until Friday because he doesn't have a lawyer, does not have a lawyer. The 19-year-old was on the lam for two years and became an Internet sensation, somewhat folk hero, some would argue, before he was caught in the Bahamas over the weekend.
Now some information on a big story that we have been following today, and so have you. The NAACP had some choice words for Tea Party members yesterday. They passed a resolution calling out what they call rampant racism inside the conservative movement.
Well, we're going to be looking at this in-depth, and we have got both sides represented. And expect fireworks during this conversation. I have got a list of the top five facts that you need to know about the NAACP that you maybe didn't know.
For example, number five, did you know the NAACP was founded in 1909, that far back? In fact, number four says it is the oldest civil rights organization in the country. What's number three? What's number two? What's number one? You will get that right after this commercial. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Once again, the story that many Americans are talking about today involves the NAACP that is out blasting the Tea Party movement, calling it racist.
Tea Party members say, no. Both groups say they represent the interest of overlooked minority groups in the United States. So, how different are the NAACP and the Tea Party's messages really? We going to get to that argument in just a little bit.
But, before we get to that, I have got a list for you of the top five facts that you probably need to know about the NAACP and maybe don't. I gave you two just before the break. Here is the rest.
Number three: In 1954, Thurgood Marshall and a team of NAACP attorneys won the infamous case Brown vs. the Board of Education. Yes, and we know that one very well.
Number two, there have been 17 presidents to date of the NAACP.
Number one, though, the current president, Ben Jealous, is the youngest person to hold the position in the organization's history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEALOUS: If we're silent in these times when people call for violence and they call for hate, what we know happens is violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That is Ben Jealous. Is the Tea Party movement racist? The NAACP says so. In fact, they have passed historic -- a historic resolution on this very point. And we are going to be taking you through that conversation. In fact, Roland Martin is going to be joining us.
And I have a feeling he might be a little fired up about this one. And we're also going to be joined by a Tea Party representative.
Out with the old, in with the new. Talk about going out with a bang? Yes. Get ready for the bang, boom. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
Explosions always make for great video. That's of course if no one gets hurt.
Let's do "Fotos."
Boom, crash, and splash. Two hundred pounds of explosives set 1,200 feet of steel of an old Pennsylvania Turnpike bridge plummeting -- let me try that again -- plummeting into the Allegheny River on Tuesday. The bridge demolition was part of a $193 million bridge replacement project.
One more for good measure. There you go.
Meanwhile, in New York State, bridges go over the water, right? Well, it's not every day you see one on the water.
This one is 65 feet high, 350 feet long, and weighs 2,400 tons. And it took 400 wheels to roll it into the Hudson River. It replaces the centuries-old Willis Bridge joining Manhattan and the Bronx.
Also, iReporter Avi Lazerus (ph) caught this footage of New York's first ever skateboarding race. Dozens of wheeled competitors turned out for the event, and dozens more watched the lively competition.
You can see all of our "Fotos del Dia" on CNN.com/ricksanchez.
All right. Let me share I think a really good look at this billboard.
The guy on the left, Hitler. Guy on the right? That's Vladimir Lenin. I think in one of our teases earlier I accidentally said Stalin. My mistake.
The guy in the middle is President Obama.
So, who is it that is actually comparing the president to those two? And are they a little confused about politics historically?
Meanwhile, the NAACP says it's tired of stuff like this. They're saying that many of these Tea Parties in the United States are allowing racism within their ranks.
We're going to hear both sides of this debate with CNN contributor Roland Martin and Mark Skoda, who's going to be joining us as well, of the Memphis Tea Party movement.
We'll be right back with both of these guys. A good conversation, I expect.
This is your national conversation, and I'm Rick Sanchez.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Before we get into this next segment, just while we were in that commercial I got some brand new information from some of our folks in Washington; namely, John King, who's as good as anybody at breaking these types of stories.
John King is about to report -- I think he's going to be calling in and joining me here any moment now -- that the former vice president of the United States has had heart surgery. Once again, heart surgery for Dick Cheney, confirmed by our own John King.
He's going to have that for us in just a little bit. Details to follow. And as soon as he calls in, we'll get him on the air.
In the meantime, I want to start with a story that we were talking about just moments ago.
You tell me -- you have on Twitter, and many Americans feel really strongly about this -- that this image here is racist. OK?
That lady's sign reads "Send Obama back to Kenya," and she is walking around holding a monkey. A monkey. You don't have to be a genius or a philosopher to know what she's trying to say there.
And how about this one? The president depicted as a witch doctor. A witch doctor. He's got a bone through his nose, as a matter of fact.
These are pictures that have been shown at Tea Party rallies. Sarah Palin and other Tea Party group backers are expressing umbrage today because the NAACP has passed a resolution that asks the Tea Party movement to repudiate things like that, to "racist elements" within its ranks, to repudiate them.
And we just got this from Michael Steele, the Republican Party chairman. "Recent statements claiming that the Tea Party movement is racist are not only destructive, they are not true. Tea Party activists are your mom or your dad, your local grocer, banker, hairdresser, doctor. Enough with the name-calling."
All right. Let's talk about this now.
Mark Skoda is good enough to join us. He's a founder and chairman of the Memphis Tea Party. There he is.
And CNN's political analyst Roland Martin comes to us from Indianapolis, Indiana.
Hey, Mark, let me begin with you, because I've got a poll here that was just conducted, if I can find it. I always have too many papers here. Let me read you what it says.
It says that -- ABC News/"Washington Post" poll. And the question was this -- I want to be very clear about how I present this -- "Is support for the Tea Party movement based on racial prejudice against Obama?" That's the question. OK? "Is support for the Tea Party movement based on racial prejudice against Obama?"
They asked Americans this question. Twenty-eight percent of Americans said, yes, a lot. Twenty-one percent of Americans said some. And 43 percent of Americans said not at all.
So, if you add the 28 and the 21, you've got 49 percent of Americans who are saying they believe -- 49 percent of Americans saying that they believe the Tea Party movement is based in some part on racial prejudice.
What do you make of that?
MARK SKODA, FOUNDER & CHAIRMAN, MEMPHIS TEA PARTY: Well, first of all, I think -- let's go back to the election.
This president had 56 percent of the population of the United States voting for him which put him in office. They gave the man a fair shake, a fair chance. And frankly, I think the Tea Party has come around as a result of what we see as policies that are inconsistent with smaller government and less spending.
SANCHEZ: All right. I'm going to stop you there and I'm going to give my friend Roland Martin a chance to come in and answer you.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, actually, he didn't actually answer your question. He danced around your question because he obviously did not want to answer it. So I will let him have a second opportunity, Rick, to actually answer the question you actually raised in terms of what the people in this poll, not African- Americans, Americans in general, had to say about the Tea Party and race.
SANCHEZ: But he has just said that 65 percent of Americans voted for the man which included a lot of whites. Right?
MARTIN: Fifty-sixty percent, but the bottom line is he didn't answer the question.
SANCHEZ: All right.
Mr. Skoda, would you like another chance to answer the question?
SKODA: I'd be happy. First of all, I don't know the statistics. And certainly --
MARTIN: There's an ABC/"Washington Post" poll.
SANCHEZ: ABC News/"Washington Post" poll, a very legitimate organization. Very legitimate polling data.
SKODA: And I'm very familiar with "The Washington Post." Let me say this -- I think it's, unfortunately, a misnomer.
First of all, there has been a narrative which has been preceded by primarily the mainstream media going back to the Washington protests during the health care rally. I was one of those organizers.
I spoke at the rally. I observed the Congressional Black Caucus walking amongst the crowd to create an event. And I would just tell you, I think that narrative has been pushed so often and so regularly, that it has had an impact, without question. Your survey would suggest that.
On the other hand, being involved directly in the movement as I am, we have repudiated racism at every chance, we have gone on record and stated unequivocally that we're against any form of racism or derogatory conversations relative to violence or ostracizing people. And I have personally talked to people when I have seen signs that I deem offensive to just take them away.
And frankly, I believe personally that at the end of the day, what we're trying to focus on now is the 2011 elections. This issue of racism --
SANCHEZ: Well, let me stop you before you get to the 2010 elections.
MARTIN: But Rick --
SANCHEZ: You just said -- hold on a minute. You just said that you were at events and you stopped someone for something they were doing. Can you be more specific?
What was the sign or what was the person doing at an event that made you go over to them? And what did you say?
SKODA: Well, it was actually -- we had our Tea Party here in Memphis, Tennessee. We had some folks who had signs which I thought, frankly, were a bit too harsh.
SANCHEZ: What did they say?
SKODA: About going back to Kenya specifically. And I said, "Look, that's inappropriate."
I reject Birthers. I reject this question of the man's origins. My family comes from central Europe, Polish, Slovenia. I'm a third generation immigrant, so I get all of that. And frankly, you know, we need to reject those kinds of things when the rhetoric is too extreme.
On the other hand --
SANCHEZ: OK.
SKODA: -- I didn't hear -- excuse me. On the other hand, I didn't hear too much being said when Shabazz suggested that white cracker babies and police should be murdered. And that is, far and away, extreme versus a sign that might be carried at such an event.
MARTIN: Actually, it was pretty interesting -- Media Matters has an interesting take on that, and that Fox News has actually put the new Black Panther Party on the network more than anybody else in the past 10 years. So maybe they're the ones pushing that story he's talking about, so maybe they should answer why they are giving them a platform to espouse their views. That's one thing they should answer.
But I also appreciate, though, Rick -- I appreciate that the other guest is being honest by saying, look, I tell people, take the stuff down. I debated Mark Williams, a Tea Party leader, right here on CNN on "ANDERSON COOPER 360" in September, and I asked him on the air, "If somebody had a racist sign, would you tell them to take it down?"
He said, "I would not want to infringe on their First Amendment rights." And I think the Tea Party folks who have condemned racism, who have said you are not welcome here, that's the right position.
What the NAACP voted on was to call upon the Tea Party to remove racist elements. They did not call the entire Tea Party racists. They didn't call all the Tea Party folks bigots.
And when you talk about polls, CBS had a poll as well of Tea Party members where more than a quarter said they believed this president was doing more for blacks than anybody else. Not based upon any real data, just simply a particular view.
And so I can understand why people hold a view. But the Tea Party should be saying if you come with your racist rhetoric and your signs, you are not welcome, get out of here. That's the right response.
SANCHEZ: How much of this do you think, Mark, has to do with the fact that the Tea Party has come to fruition at the time when we have our first African-American president in the history of the United States, and it's almost impossible to look at those two without seeing them together?
SKODA: Well, let's be clear. I think some of this effort was undertaken. In fact my own response was at the end of the Bush administration.
I have been very anxious about what his spending habits were doing to this nation. And, frankly, when Barack Obama came into office, he stepped on the accelerator. It's problematic.
I think to your point it is -- race is a very delicate issue in this nation. It always has been.
I live in Memphis, Tennessee. We have 60 percent African- Americans in our city. I deal with race every single day in the way we drive jobs in this city, the issues of helping people who are less able, whether I support the Brinkley Heights Urban Academy, or build a church in -- New Vineyard Baptist Church in our Binghamton area.
The truth of the matter is we need to have a dialogue about how we begin to work together, speak with each other, as opposed to yell at each other. And I think --
MARTIN: I agree. SKODA: -- quite honestly, a lot of this is just beyond the --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Roland, you get the last word.
MARTIN: Rick, I agree with that. And think part of the problem here is that when you look at the people who I think some Tea Parties -- Tea Party folks look to, the Glenn Becks of the world, who say the president is a racist, and they use the race-baiting, when you look at Rush Limbaugh and his racist language as well, that's what you have here.
And at the end of the day, if it's about rights, fine. But reject the people who want to bring race into the rally, into the party.
So I salute those who do that. They're the righteous folks. But not all Tea Party leaders are willing to do that, and I think the NAACP is simply saying remove the racist elements from your existence because they are the ones who are hindering your message.
SANCHEZ: Well, unfortunately, there's a lot of people in this country that look at legitimate news organizations like "The Washington Post" and scoff, and actually think that Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are legitimate news organizations.
MARTIN: Well, when they make up stuff they're not legitimate to me at all.
SANCHEZ: Sad as that may be.
Gentlemen, we have to leave it there. We have got some breaking news coming in. My thanks to both of you.
We've got some information. I mentioned this to you just moments ago, former vice president Dick Cheney's heart condition.
Here's his statement. I'll read it to you.
"As many of you know, I have dealt with coronary artery disease for decades now, suffering my first heart attack in 1978 at age 37. Over the years, excellent care from my doctors and advances in medicine and technology have allowed me to live a full and active life for which I am very grateful."
"A few weeks ago, it became clear that I was entering a new phase of the disease when I began to experience congestive heart failure. After a series of tests and discussions with my doctors, I decided to take advantage of one of the new technologies available and have a left ventricular assist device, an LVAD, implanted. This LVAD is a small implantable pump that improves heart function and will enable me to resume an active life."
The former vice president goes on to say, "Last week, I underwent surgery at Inova Fairfax Heart and Vascular Institute and had an LVAD implanted. The operation went very well, and I am now recuperating."
One more thing. He says, "I'm grateful for the wonderful care that I have received over the years at George Washington University Hospital."
So there you go. The former vice president of the United States coming out and saying that he has indeed -- he now confirms that he has had this heart procedure done.
If we get any more information on this, we will certainly bring it to you.
When we come back -- you're not going to believe this -- a professor, member of a school board, suggesting that different races have different brain sizes. Different races -- in case you didn't catch it the first time, let me help you. Different races have different brain sizes.
Guess which list he's on today? I'm going to tell you when we come back.
I'm Rick Sanchez. We'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: I say this in my book that's going to be coming out real soon, and I say this as well on the air. I let you make many of the editorial decisions in this show. I mean, obviously, you don't make the decisions, but we take into account what you're saying, we read your tweets all day long. Not just me, but people who are part of my staff, like this one, "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On."
Here's what you brought to my attention. And we jumped on it.
His name is Michael Kundu, now a former member of the Marysville, Washington, School Board. The district has been working to improve standardized test scores, so Kundu did some research and sent an e- mail to his colleagues.
What he allegedly sent them was research suggesting that East Asians have bigger brains than Anglo Saxons, and Anglo Saxons, of course, have bigger brains than Africans. And it's their brain size that makes them successful.
Not income. Not social psychological factors. Not family background. Not the fact that they went to a really crummy high school. No, nothing like that.
None of that comes into play. It's their brain size. You all got that?
Wow. A school board member citing research that says that one brain is smarter than another brain because it's larger, as in white versus black.
Isn't that what the Nazis believed and tried to prove? Fellow board members who received his e-mail were shocked, as I'm sure you were, listening to this conclusion. Kundu has resigned, but in his resignation letter, he stood by his initial point. And he turned his defense of course into a freedom of speech argument.
Former Marysville School Board member Michael Kundu, number one on today's "List That U Don't Want 2 Be On."
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SANCHEZ: OK. Time for the Rick and Wolf moment when we get together and, oftentimes, we talk about items in the news. Oftentimes, we talk about our love of sports.
On this day, I want to talk to you, Wolf, about this report we just got in a little while ago about former vice president Dick Cheney. I know you that and John King and a couple guys up there in Washington have been knocking on doors about this.
What are you learning? What's going on?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we just got this lengthy statement from Dick Cheney. Have you already reported it on the air?
SANCHEZ: All I did is, I reported it and I read what he said.
BLITZER: What Dick Cheney said?
SANCHEZ: Yes, what Dick Cheney said in his letter. That's all our viewers have gotten.
BLITZER: And the bottom line being he had this new procedure done. He was having some serious problems, the doctors took advantage of the new device. He is now recuperating out in Fairfax, Virginia, outside of Washington, D.C.
Of course, we wish him only the best. But as you know, he has had a long, long history of heart disease. He's had many problems. And now he's recuperating in intensive care from this procedure that was done over the past few days. So it's obviously a serious development.
SANCHEZ: Yes. He seems to be saying, look -- and, you know, it's nice the way he is very transparent, as we say around here.
He comes clean. He says, look, I've had this problem a long time, but now I've gotten to a point in my life where I have to have this procedure.
It almost sounds as you read the letter almost like he kind of was expecting it would happen sometime anyway, right?
BLITZER: Yes. Well, you know, you have a history of heart disease like that, and you have various procedures that are done, various pacemakers or whatever that have implanted, and fibrillators. You know, he's suffered from this disease for a long time, since he was in his 30s and 40s. And now he is in his late 60s.
So there is a history and you've got to deal with it. And I know personally -- I know some of the doctors at George Washington University Hospital and other cardiologists who have worked on him, and he's got the best care in the world. There's no doubt about that.
SANCHEZ: You know everybody in Washington.
Wolf Blitzer, as usual, our inside guy.
I look forward to you in just a little bit coming up in "THE SITUATION ROOM," Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: And THE LIST scrolls on after this. Stay with us.
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SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
Does America's desire to protect the hallowed land making up Ground Zero trump the rights of someone who wants to do something with the land around it legitimately? Well, that is the heart of the debate of a new construction project.
There is an organization that wants to build a 13 story mega- mosque overlooking the site. Now, critics would say that it would be a monument to terrorism and it would spit in the face of the memory of those who died there. The building is owned by a Muslim group and used as a prayer center already.
Well, last night, the Landmark Preservation Commission which will determine if the building should be given landmark status held a town hall meeting and, boy, did it get feisty.
Here is our Deb Feyerick. She got an earful from both sides.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANIA DARWISH, MOSQUE SUPPORTER: My family died that day!
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a meeting filled with pain, sorrow and outright anger. Many came to say "no" to building a mosque near Ground Zero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have we forgotten what happened at 9/11?
FEYERICK (voice-over): Others, like Dania Darwish, who lost an aunt and two friends on 9/11, came to say it's the right thing to do.
DARWISH: And all you people here yelling at me don't even know. And maybe if a mosque were built, then you guys would know what Islam was about.
FEYERICK (voice-over): For three hours, tempers flared on both sides.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a very carefully planned effort on the part of radical Islamists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's called Islamophobia, pure and simple.
FEYERICK (voice-over): New York City's Landmark Preservation Commission took it all in as it considers the fate of this 19th century building, two blocks from Ground Zero. If designated a landmark, the original building will remain. If not, American-Muslim groups will tear it down and move ahead with plans to build an interfaith community center and mosque.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do feel that it would be a terrible mistake to destroy a 154-year-old building in order to build a monument to terrorism.
FEYERICK: The meeting wasn't pretty as emotions boiled over.
RAFIQ KATHWARI, MOSQUE ADVOCATE: That I'm ashamed to be an American today.
FEYERICK (voice-over): Rafiq Kathwari, a Muslim-American, reminded the crowd people from many countries and religions died on 9/11.
KATHWARI: Anyone has a doubt, this is my American passport.
FEYERICK (voice-over): Rosaline Talon (ph), heckled for opposing the mosque, spoke on behalf of her brother, a firefighter who gave his life saves lives in the towers.
TALON (ph): And I'm not racist, thank you!
FEYERICK (voice-over): some were suspicious of Imam Feaisal Abdul Rauf, whose Cordoba Initiative is behind the group project, with one gubernatorial candidate even calling for an investigation into the $100 million center's funding.
JOHN FASO, NEW YORK GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I would ask again in the context of this decision that you give people the time to have these questions answered.
FEYERICK (voice-over): New York's mayor Michael Bloomberg rejects that.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (I), NEW YORK CITY: Government should never, never be in the business of telling people how they should pray or where they can pray.
FEYERICK (voice-over): Imam Fasial was out of the country and unavailable for comment, but a spokeswoman said the center would counter extremism by giving moderate Muslims a voice.
(on camera): To give you a sense of location, the landing gear assembly of one of the 9/11 planes ended up right where the proposed mosque would be built. New York is not alone in this. Around the country, in places like Tennessee, Georgia, Wisconsin and Ohio, proposed mosques have also been met with great resistance.
At Ground Zero, the mosque is supposed to stand at a symbol of religious diversity and tolerance sponsored by moderate Muslims. That may be overshadowed by the extremists who brought down the towers in the first place.
Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And we've got some folks here in our own -- our little studio audience, as we call them, folks who come by and visit with us every day. And I watched as they were shaking their heads as they were watching that report.
You guys ready to send it over to Wolf Blitzer? Shall we?
Here we go. From them to Washington, where "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins with my friend and colleague, Wolf Blitzer.
