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Rick's List

NAACP vs. Tea Party; Capping the Oil Disaster

Aired July 15, 2010 - 15:00   ET


RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: It's not only what it does. It's what it doesn't do as well. And that's what we're going to be talking about. There are some folks out there saying, look, this reform, it still is leaving too much control in the hands of CEOs. We're going to be all over that.

But, first, here's what else is coming your way. Scroll it, Danno.


SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what is making your LIST today.

The NAACP has been careful not to say that all Tea Partiers are racist, so what's this Tea Party movement spokesperson say about the NAACP?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Racists have their own movement. It's called the NAACP.

SANCHEZ: So, the entire NAACP is racist? Wait. It gets worse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bunch of old fossils looking to make a buck off skin color.

SANCHEZ: Talk about throwing gasoline on a fiery debate.

What you're hearing is a woman being Tasered by police. But wait a minute. She called police. What gives?

ARSENIO HALL, ENTERTAINER: Would you tell Rick Sanchez I say hello?

SANCHEZ: Hello back, Arsenio.

HALL: He gives me the material on Mel Gibson and Tiger Woods, so I can take it where CNN wouldn't let it go.

SANCHEZ: We will see about that.

The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's landed on the list you don't want to be on? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list.

Pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.


SANCHEZ: Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.

At the very top of our LIST, you're not going to believe how much movement we have had on this BP story over the last 24 hours. First, BP is now saying -- this is important -- BP is now saying it has started the well integrity test.

Remember, for the last 48 hours, we' been talking about this, this after being forced to suspend operations after a leaking piece of equipment was discovered last night. So, after we left you, they said, no, we have got to check and see if there's enough pressure and if it's going to withstand the pressure. They did that. And they found a little bit of a problem, a potential leak.

According to BP, during preparations for yesterday's well integrity test, the leak was detected in something called the choke line, the choke line. We're going to tell you exactly what that is and where it is and what the impact was in a minute, because we're going to be joining a professor from Houston who's going to take us through it.

So, the testing once it began it had to be delayed while the choke hub was eventually replaced. The choke hub was successfully replaced overnight and roughly 45 minutes ago, literally 45 minutes ago, BP told us that the oil well integrity test is under way.

The test will take anywhere from six to 48 hours, beginning now, we hope.

Before I do anything else, and before I bring in my guest, pardon me for turning my back on you, but I want to come over here and I want to show you this graphic, because this is what we're going to be using as best we can to try and illustrate what's going on now and so the professor who's joining me can take you through the explanation of what's going to happen now, where this choke hold was, et cetera.

All right, let's roll this animation, Dan. And we're going to bring in the professor from University of Houston in just a minute.

This it the process that we have been following all throughout. And you can see all the apparatus that was taken off on the very top of the wellhead. And now you are going to see that they're going to be bringing it back down into another -- there it is right there. So, now we have that.

Remember, Chad was calling it yesterday the perfect fit, brings in the new, for a lack of a better term, a new blowout preventer that has these three areas where they can stop the oil from flowing. And, look, behold, the oil has stopped flowing.

If they have to, they can bring in another pipe that will literally extract the oil or produce the oil and take it out of there. So where are we on the process right now?

Joining me from Houston is Don Van Nieuwenhuise. He is a petroleum expert from the University of Houston, served us very well, been very straight with us on what's going on in this thing.

First of all, as we're looking at this, Professor, we heard this night about something, the choke hold having a problem and that they sprung some kind of leak. Where on this diagram would the choke hold be?

DONALD VAN NIEUWENHUISE, GEOLOGIST, UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON: It's over there on -- you see a line on it right now.

SANCHEZ: You mean this area right in here?

VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Yes. There's a line coming out of that.

And what you have is a line coming out of the choke -- one of the choke rams that allows them -- you have moved it away, but it allows them to actually take the pressure away from the wellhead while they're moving pipes and that sort of thing in and out of the wellhead.

And it's sort of like a pressure chamber and they have to have a way to bleed off the pressure and that's what the choke line is. And there's also a kill line that allows them to bleed off pressure from the chamber that's formed when the kill rams close.

SANCHEZ: So that's all this area here. I have been calling this, for lack of a better description, the new and improved blowout preventer, which is kind of what this is right here, right?

VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Absolutely. It's like a -- almost like a production stack or a blowout preventer itself. And what's different about this from before is that not only do you have a better seal, but you also have the stack of chokes and rams that they can close down on that wellhead to top the flow to the surface.

SANCHEZ: And let me explain that to our viewers, what you just said.

The seal you're talking about is right there. It's where this apparatus was able to get a good seal on this apparatus without having stuff that is blowing out on the sides. And by stuff obviously, I mean the oil and the hydrates, et cetera.

And then what he said is, the area where they can literally choke it off is these three areas right in here where they can stop it. Now, OK, I think we get that, Professor. Now here's what we need to know. What's going to happen over the next six to 48 hours that wasn't happening before?


Well, what we're going to want to see here is that we're going to want to see that the flow completely stops and as that flow is cut off, they're doing it very slowly which is a very wise thing to do. They're being extremely careful. They will be closing it slowly and we will stop seeing all the flow. And as that flow is stopped, the pressure in the well will start to build up. And that tremendous pressure, they're hoping will build up to around 8,000 to 8,700 PSI. And if it does, that means there's probably no existing leak. And in that case, they will hold that pressure as long as they can, about 48 hours, to make sure that the integrity is real and it's not just instantaneous.

SANCHEZ: It makes sense. It makes perfect sense. In other words, they're now going to start to test where they start to close off these chambers and hope, and we will all cross our fingers and say a prayer, that, in fact, it will not cause other problems elsewhere.

That's what you mean by integrity, right? It does you no good to seal it off here if it's going to blow down there.


And what they're trying to do, Rick, is they're trying to see if there are any preexisting leaks because they need to know that when they do the kill operation. And, of course, they're also trying to make sure that they do not create any new leaks.

So, if, for example, they had it up to a high pressure -- and this is kind of simplifying it, but if they had a dramatic and sudden drop in pressure, that would suggest that a new leak had started.

But they're going to be raising the pressure very slowly, so that they see if any small leak starts to leak a little bit. They will get that pressure kick, so to speak, a small pressure kick, and they will back off on the pressure. They could suspend the whole operation instantaneously if they see a serious problem.

SANCHEZ: Well, it's just a matter of watching them then and reporting to the American people what's going on. We're so glad that you were able to join us to take us through this. And we will be joining you again in an hour because this thing, this process seems to move in hourly increments.

If we have anything new, we will get back to you. Thank you again, Professor. We appreciate your time.

VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Thank you for your time.

SANCHEZ: All right. I want to do this.

Let's go back over to the main desk over here, because I want to take you now through what is really an extremely significant story. It's another piece of legislation that we have been talking about. This time it's the financial reform vote.

Let me just check to see what new information has been coming in on this, because I know there's going to be a lot of reaction coming in and I want to be able to share that with you as it comes in. Here's the nuts and bolts. You ready? It has passed now both houses. It passed the Senate 60-39 just moments ago.

And we're assured the president of the United States will indeed sign this, probably in some kind of signing ceremony some time next week. There is some -- there is some blowback on this. There are some who are arguing that it doesn't go far enough, some who are arguing that too many CEOs still have too much control and are able to control their credit without releasing enough information to you and me, to the government, to the people responsible, who end up paying, like we did just several years ago during the meltdown.

And there are those who are saying, well, actually, it's going too far. You know, in an effort to try to deregulate, we have now over-regulated. Both sides of that argument are being heard. You're going to be hearing here -- we have just talked to the White House. I'm going to be talking to Austan Goolsbee, one of the president's top economists, to ask him for his reaction to this. That's coming up in just a little bit.

In the meantime, I want you to take a look at this video.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get in the car. Get in the car. Get in the car. Get in the car. Get in the car.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm getting in. I'm getting in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get in the car. Get in the car.


SANCHEZ: What this officer does is all but reprehensible. The woman that you heard screaming, the woman screaming and crying right there, she's the one who called police to report a crime. But somehow the officer arrives and thinks that she's the criminal and starts attacking her with the Taser. There is a lot to tell on this story and I can't wait to take you through it.

Also, President Obama actually gets that Wall Street reform victory I told you a little while ago. But how is that going to affect the unemployment numbers? Remember, we're about 9.5 right now. The president did warn we might go over into double digits at some point. And how is that going to affect the upcoming elections? That's next right here on the LIST. Stay with us. Boy, there's a lot going on all of a sudden. We will be right back.


SANCHEZ: The thing that we try and do for you here which is somewhat different from a lot of the other newscasts that you see is we try and stay as interactive as possible by connecting with people who are using social media to send out information.

So, we have got a team of people who are checking at all times to see what is being written and what is being tweeted and then we move that information to you when it's relevant to a breaking news story that we're following.

With that said, I told you moments ago that the financial reform package had passed the Senate. So, let's go to what people tweeting about it now.

Bernie Sanders is someone that we follow. And so do many of you. Here's what he writes. He's, remember, on the left, some would argue left of left. "Congress has passed the Wall Street reform bill, a positive step forward."

So, there's Bernie Sanders saying hurrah, this thing is good.

Let's go to the other side now, because we have been in touch with Judd Gregg all day on the Republican side. And he just sent me this e-mail a little while ago from his team.

Robert, see if you can make your way back here and you can read over my shoulder, because I'm kind of looking at it now for the first time, too. So, you come from back here. We will go and focus on this. We will make it a little bit bigger and see what Judd Gregg is saying, prominent Republican, Republican, New Hampshire, says, "Congress and the administration have failed in their chief responsibility to ensure that we do not face crisis conditions again by flatly ignoring the root causes of the 2008 crisis, shoddy underwriting practices and the government-sponsored enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."

He closes by saying -- you getting this, Robert? "In the face of continued economic uncertainty, skyrocketing budget deficits and a mounting national debt, this measure will undoubtedly do harm to our efforts to create jobs and revive the economy."

So, here you have got Bernie Sanders over there on Twitter saying this is a good thing and I'm glad we passed it. And then you have Judd Gregg over here saying, not so fast. This thing stinks. This thing is not what our country needs and we may end up where we were before.

So, now with that said, over the past couple of days, we have noted a shift in tone from the White House on the subject of the economy itself,. It's a shift in emphasis, reality.

Yesterday, we heard Joe Biden say we are not directing the economy. Well, that's not a new line. But then the president said essentially the same thing today. And to me what that says is, there's a message that they want to drive home. Here's President Obama speaking today. This is in Holland, Michigan.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've been guided by a simple idea: Government can't generate the jobs or growth we need by itself. But what government can do is lay the foundation for small businesses to expand and to hire, for entrepreneurs to open shop and test new products, for workers to get the training they need for the jobs of the 21st Century, and for families to achieve some semblance of economic security.

So our goal has never been to create a government program but rather to unleash private-sector growth. And we are seeing results.


SANCHEZ: So what the White House is saying, we're just helping. We're just here to lend a hand. The other side is saying, no, it's a government takeover.

This is House Minority Leader John Boehner. He's on Capitol Hill today arguing the other side.


REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: We, let's not forget, House Democrats gave President Obama every dollar, every tax hike, every stimulus program and every government takeover that he asked for. Now, the one thing the American people asked the Democrats to do was to say no, and yet they never did.


SANCHEZ: So, the administration is saying, look, we're doing just enough to spur business opportunities. And the right is saying, in the form of John Boehner, no, you're doing way, way too much, too much government in this country.

What do you think? That's not a rhetorical question. Shoot me a tweet if you have some thoughts on this. And I will take a look at them, share them in our thought process and maybe read them on the air. If jobs are issue number one during the midterm elections, you could make the argument that this could be 1-A. Has the Obama administration overreached?

Tell me again what you think.

Meanwhile, the Mel Gibson story, it just doesn't stop, does it? He's getting hammered now by even more tapes leaked by his girlfriend and this time they're even -- well, they're so graphic that there's very little of them that we can let you hear. And there are now reports that child protective services is involved in this investigation of this famous actor/director.

Also, GOP Senate candidate Sharron Angle isn't just campaigning. She's following a calling to defeat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. That's right, a calling. What is that? It's next on the LIST.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is your national conversation. This is RICK'S LIST.

And there's a bit of a phenomenon, a national phenomenon taking place on in this country. We talked about it on this show, called it, in fact, the Sarah Palin effect. Some describe it as a wave of conservative women becoming major players in politics, Nikki Haley in South Carolina, Minnesota's Michele Bachmann, Marsha Blackburn of Tennessee.

And then there is Pamela Gorman. This is like putting the Sarah Palin effect into overdrive. We showed you the ad on Gorman's Web site that shows her shooting off all kinds of guns, bigger guns than most of us can recognize, handguns, automatic weapons and the like.

And then there's Nevada's Sharron Angle. She's making a lot of noise as well. She is locked in a tight race trying to topple Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Angle is another Tea Party favorite. And here she is. She's talking about the nation's 14 million unemployed. She says they are too spoiled to work.


SHARRON ANGLE (R), NEVADA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: You can make more money on unemployment than you can going down and getting one of those jobs that is an honest job, but it doesn't pay as much. And so that's what has happened to us is that we have put in so much entitlement into our government that really we have spoiled our citizenry and said you don't want the jobs that are available.


SANCHEZ: By the way, it's important to note she came back and then she later said that she should not have said that after saying it. Now, here's Sharron Angle on abortion.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any reason at all for an abortion?

ANGLE: Not in my book.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, in other words, rape and incest would not be something?

ANGLE: You know, I'm a Christian.


ANGLE: And I believe that God has a plan and a purpose for each one of our lives and that he can intercede in all kinds of situations. And we need to have a little faith in many things.


SANCHEZ: That sounded to a lot of people like Angle is against abortion, even in cases of rape or incest.

Now, here's Sharron Angle on gun rights, the Second Amendment.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) ANGLE: You know, our founding fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason. And that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government.

In fact, you know, Thomas Jefferson said, it's good for a country to have a revolution every 20 years.

I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying, my goodness, what can we do to turn this country around?

And I will tell you, the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.


SANCHEZ: That speaks for itself.

Angle has also been accused of avoiding those in the media who want to talk to her, but talking freely, openly and almost always available to conservative outlets only. Here she is, for example, talking about her media strategy.


ANGLE: The whole point of an interview is to use it, like they say, earned media, to earn something with it.



ANGLE: First of all, Neil, it's great to be on your show to talk about this campaign against Harry Reid or these 25 million -- and I have been saying I only need a million people to send $25 to


SANCHEZ: That sound bite we used where she's talking about media strategy, that came from an interview with David Brody of the Christian Broadcasting Network. He's my guest now.

And he's good enough to join us from Washington.

Is she saying that the only time you want to talk to somebody in the media is when you can use it as a way to raise funds for your campaign and that's why she only talks to FOX News?


I think what she's saying is, is that the only way she's going to beat Harry Reid is she needs a boatload of money. And, look, I mean, she came out and was pretty honest and said, you know, I need to raise some money. And you know what? If I talk to some of the -- the Mark Levin shows and some of the conservative talk radio shows, that's an audience that might get off the couch and write a few checks. And so...

SANCHEZ: Is Angle the greatest thing that ever happened to Harry Reid at the worst time in his life when it looked to so many insiders like he was in real political trouble?

BRODY: You know, Rick, I know that's the conventional wisdom. I wonder about that, though.

I question if there isn't this -- and we have talked about it -- you have talked about it quite a bit -- this anti-government, this anti-incumbent feel in the country and that if authenticity and a freshness and a newness doesn't play well in this climate.

So, whether it's a Sharron Angle or whoever goes up against Harry Reid, I think either way he's got his work cut out for him in terms of the mood of the country. I think there's an issue there.

SANCHEZ: But what is interesting, the NRA is now saying -- they're coming out in favor of Harry Reid. I mean, just when you thought that Harry Reid was on an island somewhere, so distant from the movements going on in this country which seemed to be coming more from a conservative base, along comes the NRA and says, not so fast, we like this guy, and we're going to put our arm around him.

BRODY: Right.

And actually coming out a little later, we have more of that Sharron Angle interview -- I felt like it went on for quite a while -- where I asked her about that., the fact that the NRA may indeed endorse Harry Reid.

And she talked about that with me. And paraphrasing, Rick, she basically said, you know, that's crazy. Those weren't her words, but she is saying, how could the NRA endorse Harry Reid when he's voting for Supreme Court judges and others who she believes -- paraphrasing here -- are not necessarily the biggest Second Amendment right supporters?

So, that was basically her answer. And so there will be more of that coming in the days ahead.

SANCHEZ: It's interesting you use the phrase conventional wisdom. I kind of hate that as well. I'm even writing a book called conventional idiocy, because I want to push away the fact that just because a bunch of experts think something is true doesn't necessarily make it so.

You believe that this race in Nevada is still wide-open, right?

BRODY: Oh, there's no doubt about that.

I mean, the polling shows, and at least you might get the Harry Reid folks to admit privately that she seems to be trending downward, but that doesn't mean, you know, a thing in July. What is it, July 15 or so? So, look, I mean, a couple months, this debate in Nevada, when and if it happens, and obviously it will happen at some point, will be huge between the two.

SANCHEZ: David Brody, you're a good guy. Thanks. Appreciate having you on. Thanks for making yourself available to us. Good stuff.

BRODY: Thanks, Rick. Appreciate it.

SANCHEZ: All right.

That device attached to Dick Cheney's heart, what is it? There is starting to be some talk out there, and I want to take you through this as cogently as I possibly can, that this is much more serious than it seemed when we reported it yesterday. Just -- we will take you through the facts of this and we will get some experts on the air to take you through it.

But this is a very serious condition that the president had and a very serious -- pardon me -- ex-vice president had -- and a very serious implementation that he went through yesterday. So, we will take you through that.

Also, this: What is going on in Northern Ireland? After a streak of relative calm, the country has been hit by riots again. Why? That's next right here on your LIST.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. This caught our attention. I want you to look at pictures now coming in this week from Belfast, Northern Ireland. This was Tuesday. Basically, each year, Protestants dress in orange, march through Catholic neighborhoods, more or less saying "Nah-nah-nah, our king beat your king" kind of thing.

And now they get the result everyone expected. This is the very definition of sectarian violence. Since the weekend dozens of police have been injured. At least five people have been arrested, and now the video that was released by Belfast police.

The BBC reports that 20 officers are going through more than 100 hours of video, looking to identify anyone in these riots. It looks like a bit of a tough task, does it not? They're also looking for clues on the Internet. The word from Belfast is it was a little quieter there last night.

Will this Arizona police officer single handedly stop the immigration law in its tracks? He's fighting the state in court today. We're going to check in with our reporter who's there. That's ahead.


HALL: He gives me the material on Mel Gibson and Tiger Woods so I can take it where CNN wouldn't let it go.


SANCHEZ: Oh, yes? It goes both ways Mr. Arsenio Hall. My interns want to know who Arsenio Hall is, by the way. Just kidding. Stick around to see who else he's got jokes for. I love this guy. He's talking about us. We'll be right back.


SANCHEZ: Let's do "Fotos."

A feisty pharmacist wrote a prescription for bravery Tuesday. Two men burst into a Manchester, New Hampshire, drugstore. They made off with bags filled with pills. But when the second guy tried to get behind the counter, he got a surprise.

This rather small woman fought him off even after he pulled a knife. A fighting pharmacist was just what the doctor ordered.

Now, impersonating an officer, you know, that's a crime. But it's worse if you do it while committing a crime.

These counterfeit cops said they were FBI. They had fake badges and shirts to match. The owner didn't buy it, so they turned to force. But it was no match for the homeowner who had a gun. He open fired and the phone feds fled so fast that two of them almost got left behind.

Do you remember this guy? That's Arsenio Hall, whoo, whoo, whoo. How did I do? Anyway, he was being interviewed yesterday after the Espys. And suddenly he says this.


HALL: Would you tell Rick Sanchez I said hello.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why Sanchez? What makes him funny?

HALL: I don't think he's funny. He's a competent journalist. And funny might get in the way of that. He gives me the material on Mel Gibson and Tiger Woods so I can take it where CNN wouldn't let it go.


SANCHEZ: Wait a minute, who says we don't -- well, maybe not. Arsenio, right back at you. He also had something to say about Mel Gibson.


HALL: If you're getting a divorce from your wife, don't dis juice because you're going to need a good lawyer. I follow Mel Gibson even when he's not throwing out racial slurs. The first time he slipped on a banana peel, I let him go because he's drunk. Now he's acting crazy and he's sober.

He's dissing Jews and blacks. He can't get a good lawyer. He can't get into the BET Awards no more.


SANCHEZ: You have a feel that Arsenio will get in trouble if he keeps going.

A spokesman for the tea party movement calls the NAACP, the nation's leading civil rights group, racist. Not some members, not some elements within it. No, the entire organization is racist, thusly, throwing gas on yesterday's debate. We drill down and maybe find a special list for this person. That's ahead.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, get in the car.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get in the car, get in the car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm getting in. I'm getting in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get in the car. Get in the car. Get in the car.


SANCHEZ: This is unbelievable. That woman who's screaming, she called police to the house because she wanted their help. Instead, that's what they do to her, what we're hearing right there. This is a story that may very well make you mad. Maybe it should. We'll be right back. I'm Rick Sanchez.


SANCHEZ: AS Jon Stewart will tell you, I have a little bit of experience with tasers. I used to be a cop beat reporter about their effectiveness, how they work, how they don't work, when they should be used.

So when someone brought this videotape to me today, I thought it disturbing. Let me tell you what we're talking about. Janice Wells is a 57-year-old school teacher in Georgia, all right? A couple of months ago she calls 911. She's calling the police because she wants the police to come and help her because she says there may be an intruder in her house. The officer shows up and he sees Janice with a man next to her. he assumes that man is the bad guy. So they start demanding that Janice tell them all this information about this man. Janice says I don't need to tell you any information about this man. He has nothing to do with why I called.

Suddenly police turn on her. They chase her around the yard and then finally catch her and they start to arrest her for obstructing justice in her own house. During the arrest, they start pepper spraying her and call for backup.

When the next officer shows up, that's when it gets weird. They start tasing her repeatedly. I'm going to take you through this. But first, let's just watch it together, and then I'll bring in Andy Hill, one of my favorite police officer experts on the other side of this. Ready? Dan, let's watch it.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get in the car!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, god, oh, god.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get in the car, get in the car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm getting in. I'm getting in. I'm gelling. .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get in the car. Get in the car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, I ain't did nothing. I ain't did anything nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to get it again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't do that! Don't do that! Don't do that!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, I'm going to put you --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ain't done nothing. Oh, stop! Stop!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help me! Larry, help me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go ahead and get in the car and we'll talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go ahead and get in the car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let him cuff you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't do nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll talk about it when we get up to the station.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know, we'll talk about it when we get to the station.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just called him because I wanted him -- ask John to leave. Larry, help me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is he now? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I asked her a question and she said I don't want to tell you nothing. I said you can go to jail then.


SANCHEZ: So you saw what the police did when they arrived on the scene. I want to bring in Andy Hill now, the retired police officer with the Phoenix police department.

Andy, first of all, let me share with you some new information. One of those officers has been suspended and the other has been fired. I think you would agree they should probably have been suspended and fired, if not both fired at this point, right?

ANDY HILL, RETIRED POLICE OFFICER, PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT: Not only that, but I'm sure depending upon what the internal investigations could show, there might be cause to look into some criminal charges if she was restrained already when she was tased. That's a tough one.

SANCHEZ: I can't understand why it is -- and look, I know I love you guys and my brother is a police officer. You and I have had a long relationship talking about things like this on the air. I have other police officer friends.

But I don't understand why it's so hard for police department in the United States to teach their officers that these tasers are not toys. They're not going to be used like flashlights, that they have an effect. And that they're supposed to be used for compliance, to warn people that you'll use if they stop doing something or if they don't do something, not to start tasing someone and then start making demands of them. That just doesn't make any sense, Andy.

HILL: That's almost like retribution. What's inside that taser tells you how long the duration the trigger is pulled, how many times. It's very helpful in investigations.

SANCHEZ: Hold on, I want to show you something. I watched this thing with my staff a couple of times. Watch at the beginning where the officer shows up and he starts making demands, and he's asking her to do stuff while he's tasing her.

And he continues doing it for, I counted eight seconds which I learned at the police academy when I spent some time there is about four seconds more than you're supposed to do. Let's watch it together. Here it is.




SANCHEZ: You hear that. You hear that? That's the tase. And it was going all throughout at the beginning. And now he starts again. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to get it again. You're going to get it again. All right.


SANCHEZ: And there he goes.

HILL: If I can make a couple of comments here.

SANCHEZ: I'm sorry, go ahead.

HILL: Number one, the first officer who was alone, he was obviously in a fight because when that second officer gets there, that first officer is holding his back. He's obviously tired. He's had some kind of thing happen.

The second officer comes out of the car with that taser in his hand ready to go. He doesn't even know the situation. All he heard when I read what was in the paper was he could tell by the officer's voice that he was tired, maybe had a fight.

But he came out with a taser in hand. He was ready to use it in his hand. And he goes over behind the car. I don't even know if he knew what that person looked like before he got there. And then the way it was deployed, absolutely wrong.

SANCHEZ: The point to be made, because there's a lot of good police officers out there and sometimes it's not all their fault. I hate to say this, but there are some police departments out there who aren't training these guys properly on this. And sometimes they go out there confused not knowing how to use this for compliance.

So do us a favor, tell us what this officer did wrong, and if you could take a few moments just to explain how you're supposed to do this.

HILL: Absolutely. First of all, the company taser makes it clear how that's supposed to be used. What you cannot do is allow your people to go out there and use it other than the way they're supposed to.

And let's also clarify. I don't know if there was an internal investigation or if there was ever demonstrated that a law was broken. Even if there had been some law in Georgia that this woman had broken, and I don't even --

SANCHEZ: She called police!

HILL: And plus, there was something in that officer's report that he tried to indicate there was might be a domestic violence situation. He didn't worry about the guy, because he said he could go arrest him, but when the woman wouldn't tell him who he was, he arrested her. It doesn't make sense. SANCHEZ: Andy, I'm going to let you go. As usual I enjoy having this conversations, but we've got breaking knew and I'm going to move on to it right now.

BP is now saying -- BP is now saying that no oil is leaking in the gulf of Mexico, that the well is now officially shut in. Some of the cameras are going down, I'm told. Let's stay on this if we can.

To my producers in my control and to Booker Janelle, if you can get Professor Bach from the University of Houston, let's get him on the air and read what we're getting right now. Professor, are you there, sir? I hear myself. Folks, before we get him in, let me just go back through this.

Where's the shot from BP? Is that what I'm looking at over there? No. OK. Can you put that shot over there? That would be very helpful for me because I can't really see much of anything in that little tiny monitor. One of the few problems we're having with the new studio. There you go, thank you.

All right, thank you. That's the picture. You guys are seeing that. We've been calling this all week the 12 pack. The reason we've been calling it the 12 pack is because we've got all the underwater images coming in. Each one represents something different.

I think by far the most important image to look at right now obviously is that one at the very top right there. You see that? If you look at that picture, you're going to be able to tell that that's that very top of the blowout preventer that we'd been talking about all along.

Let me come over here to see if I can help you. Sorry, got microphones falling off of me, et cetera. This right here, OK? See if we can put this shot maybe over there. If we can put it over there, I'll go over there.

You see the one on -- if you look at this as boxes, look at the box all the way over to the top left, right there, and it looks, as you look at that right there -- OK, let's go back over here.

We're going to make our way from one side of the studio to the other. This is important, folks, because it looks like, and, you know, we can nail this down visually, and we can nail this down according to what is being said by BP, but as we were just looking at this picture moments ago we were seeing that that area that we've been describing visually --

How long before we can get this back up, guys? All right, anyway. Let's go and check and see if we can go to Eddie Lavandera. Eddie, the pictures we saw for a few minutes there, I'm not sure why we can't hold it up, is that the blowout preventer is showing there's no more oil coming out. Can you confirm that? And what is BP saying?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This isn't -- the great moment in all of this. Let's be very clear about all of this, Rick. This is part of the plan. The longer they can keep it closed off, the better news it is obviously, but this is all part of the integrity testing.

Remember, we were going in six-hour intervals here, so about 8:00 eastern tonight is when all the scientists that are huddled in the room will kind of compare notes and watch the fluctuations of the pressure readings that is they have been gathering in this initial first six hours, and based on that they will determine whether or not to keep moving.

Essentially what we're looking at is a 48-hour test and every six hours they will sit down and say do we keep moving forward. The longer they can go, obviously, the better news, but this could be shut down at any point if the readings don't come back the way they need to see them.

SANCHEZ: Eddie, we got the picture back up. Boy, it was a struggle, but we finally got the picture up that we've been talking about.

Look, this is television. The best way to tell a story is to show the picture and show people what we're talking about. This is the area that we're talking about right here, right? This is part of that new blowout preventer that they have put in.

And if nothing else, the immediate significance of this, folks, it came to us immediately, and we thought that they were going to go through so much more testing before we saw anything like this. In fact, as we were beginning this show, we were told that there would be six to 48 hours of testing before they can get to the point where they can stop the flow all together.

And now we see points where they have actually stopped the flow, and now it's looking like some of the flow is coming back.

So if they can stop it for intervals or for any period of time, Ed, does that mean that they can stop it for good without having a leak or some kind of loss of, as we say, integrity somewhere else in this apparatus? Do you know the answer to that question?

LAVANDERA: Well, look, the way this is going to work. In the first six hours. What the integrity test involves -- there's five ways right now with the blowout preventer, the containment stack on top. There are five ways for oil to get out of all that machinery. They have closed off all five of those exit points.

That's what -- that's what the integrity test involved. And so they need to shut all that down so that they can get those pressure readings.

If that pressure is to drop over the course of the next six hours, then there is a leak somewhere else, obviously, because it's not coming out of the five ways that they know it can get out, so it's down somewhere below, and that's what they don't want to see.

Now, that doesn't mean that the containment cap is a failure. They can come back and start opening up, and what they like about this is that they have the capacity now and the infrastructure there in place where they can start hooking the tubes back up to the escape routes.

SANCHEZ: Forget that. Before you even get there, Ed, let's talk about the fact that for the first time they can actually stop this thing from leaking oil.

I mean, even before we get into the extraction devices, what we're talking here is we have now witnessed, unless I'm seeing things, we have just now witnessed the potential, the possibility, the stoppage of this leak in the Gulf of Mexico, albeit intermittently or just at some interval or just while they check other places, and then they are going to start letting go again.

So I guess, Ed, this is part of this six to 48-hour process we'll be going through. Shut it down, get it back going and they will check other areas.

LAVANDERA: The question is can they sustain it, and that's why everyone right now is kind of on pins and needles. And in the words of the BP official we were just hearing from a short while ago, they don't want to create a false sense of excitement.

Visually, heck yes, after almost three months of watching oil gush into the Gulf of Mexico, a sight like this is quite unbelievable and exciting news. But it doesn't mean right now as it is it can be sustained. And that is the question they are trying to answer right now.

SANCHEZ: Point well made.

I want to bring something else to the table here, and I think this is relatively important. As Ed has described -- stay here with me, Ed -- part what have they are going to do now is get a reading on exactly what the pressure is in and out of this new system.

Now, obviously the fact that we don't see a lot of oil coming out of this right now in that picture or none in fact means that there's going to be more pressure in the system itself. So they are going to take readings.

Robert. Can you follow me? I know I'm going to be in really bad light over there and you studio guys hate when us news guys do this, but I'm going to do it anyway. Take a look at this picture over here. Am I on TV right now? See if you can put me on TV or put this picture up that I'm trying to describe on TV?

See that there. That's the meter. That's what we've been talking about. That's where they are measuring how much pressure is coming in or out of, and that's what they fear at some point might be too much. Boy, I wish we can get Professor Nieuwenhuise from the University of Houston. Oh, he's there? Professor, are you there?


SANCHEZ: Oh, fantastic. Boy, this is great to have you on. You know about this. Well, first of all, we'll start with the last point first. I just showed the viewers that meter, and it looks to me -- go back on that meter. Go back on that meter right there, if you can. There you go. Thank you very much. See it. I think that says what -- it's at 3,000. Tell our viewers what that means.

VAN NIEUWENHUISE: The 3,000 measurement, if that actually is the pressure inside, that's way too low compared to what they want. But, again, they are going to let that pressure rise slowly. If it stays there and doesn't go to 10,000, that means there could be a significant problem.

But I have to qualify this with the fact that BP has actually said and also Thad Allen that these gauges are more to do with the accumulators that are used to build up hydraulic pressure for some of the valves than it is for the actual internal pressure. Although the gauge that you're looking at is interesting --

SANCHEZ: Hold on, hold on. Hold on it. It looks like BP is watching our newscast trying to answer our questions. Ready, here you go. Watch this tweet we just got over -- this is amazing, by the way. Look at the tweet we just got from BP. "Gages you see on the ROVs are not for pressure in the well."


SANCHEZ: "No gauges to observe as we use transducers to monitor well pressure." This comes over from Kent Wells. We thank Mr. Wells for sending us that information. I have no idea what he's talking about, but professor, I suspect you do.

VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Yes, absolutely. The monitors inside the well are actually --

SANCHEZ: Go ahead.

VAN NIEUWENHUISE: Yes. The monitors inside the well are actually being transmitted through transducers to the surface, and they are highly accurate digital gauges. And those digital gages are what they are actually using to watch the pressure.

That one gage that your pointing at was always interesting because it does go up to 10,000 psi, which is in the realm of what they are looking for.

SANCHEZ: OK, professor, let's take a step back. I was taken aback. Let's go back to this main picture that you see right behind me. I was taken aback a little while ago when I was told by our producers, oh, my goodness. We just saw that picture that we've been following all this time, and it looks like they capped the well.