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Rick's List
Interview With New York Congressman Anthony Weiner; Arizona's Immigration Firestorm
Aired July 27, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Look, Arizona law is about to be either upheld or overturned. It could happen during this hour.
Goldline, Glenn Beck, and are Americans being pushed to buy something they don't really need? Both sides of this.
Here's my LIST.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what is making the LIST in prime time.
Bell, California, citizens revolt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You all need to go to jail, so that we don't have to pay you back one penny.
SANCHEZ: They overpaid themselves with their money. And they want it back.
If you think we have heard it all on immigration, this will surprise you. Most white Americans say let them stay if they have a job and pay taxes.
These pitch men want you to buy into Goldline. Save yourself from a coming economic meltdown, but Congressman Anthony Weiner says stop scaring the American people. And he's demanding an investigation. I will talk to him and Goldline. They're both on the LIST.
Director Oliver Stone on Hitler, Jews, Israel and U.S. foreign policy. He's on a list.
And this, you have got to see, the feeding frenzy in a swamp. Them gators is hungry, and this river is wild enough for "Fotos."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Breaking news tonight tops our LIST. A court decision is expected any minute now in Arizona as to whether or not the nation's toughest immigration law is going to be going into effect. As of now, law enforcement there is scheduled to begin enforcing that new law just 48 hours from now.
You are looking live at the state capitol in Phoenix, where lawmakers are anxiously awaiting a decision from a federal appeals court judge. On the streets of Phoenix, scenes like this have become a familiar sight, scores of protesters on both sides demonstrating against the law that many say will turn them into targets.
And there have been protests on the other side as well, saying they favor the law. It will require law enforcement officers to demand identification of anyone they believe to be in the country illegally, if that person has been stopped legally, by the way. That's an important caveat in this law.
Civil rights groups and more than 100 individuals have filed suit, claiming it amounts to a little more than racial profiling. The Obama administration has also taken up this legal battle. They're charging the state is encroaching on federal powers.
Yes, Arizona has become ground zero in this raging debate playing out across the country, and tonight we're getting some surprising new insight into what Americans make of it all, a brand-new CNN poll with some unexpected results.
Our Jessica Yellin has tipped us off to this poll. She did so late last night. And she's joining us now live from Phoenix.
Jessica, take our viewers through what you understand this new poll seems to say about something that in the past has been branded as amnesty. What's it say?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the poll has shown, Rick, that a vast majority of Americans, a vast majority, as you said, believe that if people are here illegally, but working and not committing crimes, they should be allowed to stay in the U.S.
This is something we do not hear often because we hear that most Americans support this law in Arizona. True. But they also believe by a vast majority, again, that these illegals should be given a way to stay. And here's, perhaps, the most interesting aspect of this poll. When we broke it down by racial divides, by racial category, if you will, whites overwhelmingly -- 94 percent of whites -- say that people here illegally should be allowed to stay if they're working and paying taxes.
That's followed by 82 percent of people who identified themselves as black and 78 percent of people who identified themselves as Latino. And I will tell you, Rick, it tracks very closely with what I have seen here on the ground in Arizona. The majority of the people I have found say they do support this law because something needs to be done, but they wish the federal government would take action, so that there could be a path to citizenship or at least work visas for non-criminal illegals in this state and in this country.
They think the feds need to act, Rick. SANCHEZ: But doesn't it seem to you that this conflicts with most of the arguments that you and I have heard in the past from people who say, no matter how they stay here, once they have broken the law and come in the United States illegally, if we let them stay, that is amnesty? And the chorus has been that people should not be allowed to stay. This smacks -- this poll, this finding that you just described smacks against that, does it not, Jessica?
YELLIN: Yes. What people say to me is, look, it's a reality. We know that illegal immigration is not going to stop, so let's address it.
And so maybe it used to be seen as amnesty. Maybe it's a reframing of the old language, and people are now coming into acceptance with it. But, Rick, the bottom line is, even people who want this tough new law to go into effect also think that law-abiding illegals, people who broke the law only when they crossed in, but never since they have been here, really should be given a way to stay. It does seem to be a change in the American psyche, Rick.
SANCHEZ: It does, indeed. Jessica, thanks so much for filing that report for us.
All right, let's get right to it.
Let me bring in Dan Stein of FAIR, the Federation for American Immigration Reform.
Dan, thanks so much for being with us.
Let's start with this poll. Let's go right at it. Let's look at, again, what this poll shows.
Look, every time you and I have talked about this, plain and simple, you call this amnesty. And you are against it. So, you're against 81 percent of Americans, at least according to what this poll shows. Why is your organization, then, in such disagreement with most Americans?
DAN STEIN, PRESIDENT, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: Well, come on, Rick. I mean, I haven't seen the actual poll instrument, but it sounds like one -- this was one question that was asked, essentially with no context provided.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But it's an important question. But it's an important question, Dan. It's basically saying if Americans -- if people who are in this country illegally are allowed to stay in the country, they pay their tax, they have never committed a crime, and they go through the other lists of some of the things you and I have talked about in the past, that they have worked hard, that they pay their taxes, that they pay a fine, that they promise to continue paying their taxes in the future, and that they're generally in good standing, why not come up with some kind of path to citizenship for them? STEIN: Well, you know, I mean, I think FAIR's role in this debate is to be an honest broker, to tell the people the truth about what's going on with the way the law is being enforced.
And I think the average American understands that something is very wrong. The president has articulated a position essentially saying the law can't be -- cannot be enforced. At the same time, the executive branch will not enforce the law...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I get all that. Dan, I get all that,. I get all that, but you're changing the subject on me. Hey, you're changing the subject on me. Let me go back to the question
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Does your organization oppose what 81 percent of the American people in this poll agreed to, that we should come up with a way for people who have been in this country, have not committed a crime, are willing to pay back taxes and taxes in the future, that they should be given a path to stay in the country? Do you or do you not agree with that?
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: No, no, we do not agree with the idea that we should give amnesty and give them right to bring in relatives.
And the fact is about 80 -- probably 80 percent of the people who would get an amnesty are not paying federal taxes. They don't have a federal tax liability because their incomes are so low. So, if you have a cutoff...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: By the way, to be fair, you could say that about a lot of Americans who maybe don't make enough money...
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: Well, you can say that about -- 47 percent of American families are not paying federal taxes.
SANCHEZ: OK. Different conversation.
STEIN: So, 80 percent for the illegal population is probably actually low.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But they're paying taxes. To be clear...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But they're paying taxes. STEIN: If there were less gravity, we would all run faster. We have this debate in a context, not an out-of-context single question that leaves people with a completely misguided impression...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Dan, that's what your side does all the time. You constantly throw out the word amnesty, as if it's a word that begins with the letter F or something and everyone runs for the hill.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But here's a more composed way to ask the question. If someone is in this country, has been here for however many decades you decide to put into the law, has been a good citizen in standing, aside from the fact that they came to the country illegally, has paid their taxes, is willing to pay in the future, is willing to pay a fine, everything else about them fits, can we come up with a way where they can lead to some type of path to citizenship?
It's a very simple question.
STEIN: Look, if you can do it in a way that doesn't give them an advantage for breaking the law, that doesn't allow them to bring in 12 million -- 18 million relatives, if there's a downstream set-off against future immigrants from that country to make up for the fact that we waved a blanket, and if you can do, as Barbara Jordan said before -- in the 1990s, restore credibility to the immigration enforcement apparatus, there might be a dialogue moving forward.
Remember, Arizona, everybody's saying, hey, the illegal aliens are leaving. So either the law's enforceable or it's not. Clearly the Arizona law is having deterrence. Clearly, we can enforce the law.
And the kind of question that you laid out here is such an abstraction, it doesn't really inform public policy, because, look, Rick, we all want to do the right thing. We all want to be compassionate and we all want to be fair. We all want to be fair.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You and I have these conversations/arguments all the time. I think they're healthy. You and I have both said, look, more Americans should be talking about this.
Are you surprised, by the way, that you see this finding, where 81 percent of Americans -- and did you see the demographic breakdown on that? I don't know if we can show that again. The demographic breakdown says it's not Hispanics who are most for this. It's white non-Hispanics who say -- what was that again, 91 percent or something like that are saying yes?
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: But those numbers suggest there's something wrong with the wording, because I have got 50 polls, including others from CNN itself, showing strong support for employer sanctions, strong support for border security, strong support to prevent illegal aliens from working.
SANCHEZ: OK.
STEIN: So, clearly, look, if you call bank robbery sort of inadvertent, emergent, unauthorized withdrawals, people are going to think, well, it's a hardship waiver. It's all in the language.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes, well, I think both sides can be fairly accused of playing with words in this.
By the way, hey, Dan, if the judge comes back during this hour with a decision one way or another on this Arizona law, can you -- can you get -- can we get you back on, even if it's just on the phone? Are you willing to do that?
STEIN: Yes. I mean, I'm actually only -- I have got a meeting -- a dinner meeting after this only a few blocks away. Give me a holler. I can be here in about five minutes.
SANCHEZ: Fantastic.
Thanks so much, Dan Stein with FAIR. Always a pleasure. Appreciate you taking the time to be on RICK'S LIST once again.
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: Sure thing.
SANCHEZ: Republican Senator Orrin Hatch from Utah is sharing his thoughts on immigration. He's doing so on Twitter.
Take a look at this. Let's go to this Twitter board, if we possibly can. We check on our show with people who are relevant to the news. Here's Orrin Hatch -- quote -- "The American people don't want the federal government to abuse its power by granting backdoor amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants." There's Orrin Hatch agreeing in this case with Dan Stein from FAIR.
Coming up, they're still mad as hell and they say they're not going to take it anymore. Have you seen this? Yes. I would say they're mad. We have got more tonight on the citizen uprising in Bell, California, and what it could mean in the communities all over the country.
Also on my LIST tonight: Millions of gallons of oil have leaked into the Gulf of Mexico, right? So, here's a question for you. Where's the oil? I'm serious. Where's the oil? Where's the environmental disaster that everybody told us about? Or is this something less? I mean, this is the question that in many ways some on the left are afraid to ask. We're not.
RICK'S LIST in prime time continues. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Here's the breaking news.
Tonight, we're hearing from our own David Mattingly, who's down in the Gulf of Mexico, that he's being told that there appears to be almost no oil left on the surface. This is important, folks. Think about that, no oil left on the surface in the Gulf. In fact, we just got this tape in. I want to share this with you. Listen to what -- this is the on-scene coordinator. Listen to what he's saying.
Hit it, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADMIRAL PAUL ZUKUNFT, Federal On-Scene Coordinator: So, I had over 800 skimmers out yesterday. And across the entire region they have recovered one barrel of recoverable oil, so the oil really is in its final life cycle, if you will. It is starting to break down quite rapidly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You hear what he just said? He just said that a fleet of 800 skimmers in the Gulf were able to collect only one barrel of oil yesterday. At the height of this thing -- let me take you back -- let's compare the numbers -- they were collecting 25,000 barrels a day -- 25,000 over here, one over here. That's with 800 skimmers that were looking for it.
Now, this speaks to the question that I have been asking today that many on the left or in the institutional media may be a bit afraid to ask. Is the spill really as bad as we have been led to believe, if already nobody can find any oil?
Now, where is the oil? We know that Thad Allen said today -- and checking our figures -- he says up to five million barrels of oil have been spilled in total. Again, where is it? Did they get most of it already or did this dispersant that we have been telling you about, Corexit, get the rest?
Critics say it's not safe, this Corexit. But where's the data on this?
All right, here's what FSU oceanographer Ian MacDonald tells me. He says he's not concerned anymore about the toxicity of the dispersant and then he goes on to say this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IAN MACDONALD, PROFESSOR, DEPARTMENT OF OCEANOGRAPHY, FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY: The dispersants certainly did work, to some extent. They sank the oil. They broke it up and they -- they broke up the surface layers.
And we are at the end of act one of this seemingly unending tragedy.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MACDONALD: And the oil is not on the surface of the water anymore. It's not coming out of the well. So, that's good news.
If you go to Valdez right now, you have a hard time finding the oil immediately.
But as soon as you dig down on those rocky beaches, you find patches of oil. And the same thing will happen if you go to Pensacola. If you take a core down, you will find about 18 inches down, there will be layers of oil and layers of tar ball. And that's down there below the oxygen level on the beach. And so that oil is not going to break down naturally. It's going to be there, unfortunately, for years.
And I'm afraid the same thing applies in the Louisiana marshes that got heavily oiled. Where the oxygen levels are low below the ground, that oil is going to be there for years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, while no one is saying that this spill isn't serious or tragic or deadly, it is worth taking an unbiased look at the situation there now and asking, where's the data? Where's the oil?
I will keep asking this question. And I certainly welcome your comments, as I have been getting them all day long on tweets.
In fact, two go the Twitter board, if we possibly can. Here's a tweet that is relevant to this. This comes from the admiral once again. "Good news. After Bonnie, there is little recoverable oil in the Gulf of Mexico."
So, we will keep reporting and most certainly we will keep asking.
Now take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on you. Shame on you, all of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, she wants them out. The people are taking matters into their own hand. Have you seen this tape? Have you seen this videotape? Talk about a citizen revolt. They're demanding their city officials get kicked to the curb.
You have seen some of the ads as well telling you to buy gold to protect yourself from an economic catastrophe? And that's oftentimes the person who is saying that. He's the front man. Well, now the company, Goldline, is under investigation. They're facing a class- action lawsuit. What we want to do is take a look at this issue from both sides and give both sides a chance to respond. This is something Americans need to know about. It's on my LIST tonight. I want you to stay right there because we're tackling it. This is your national conversation.
We're going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: This immigration situation has gotten a lot of you all fired up. I'm looking at my own -- I'm looking at my own Twitter board here and I'm seeing that many of you have strong opinions on both sides.
Look, I welcome you to continue to send these tweets into us. And we will be able to try and share these as we move forward.
Meanwhile, another story that we have been following here all week on RICK'S LIST, it's making a lot of Americans' list of outrages and ours as well. It's out in Bell, California. Have you seen this? Many of the leaders in this strapped-for-cash town were giving themselves ridiculously high salaries, letting the residents, who didn't have all that much money across the board, foot the bill.
And then guess what? Since we began filing these stories right here on this show, the residents there have chosen to fight back. Have they ever. I want you to watch this city council revolt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You all need to go to jail so that we don't have to pay you back one penny. This is not a rich community. We worked hard. We didn't slave our butts off for you. Shame on you. Shame on you, all of you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope that I say goodbye to you people tonight. You're a bunch of crooks. We don't want you around.
What we would really like to do is see every one of you in jail. I would like to see all of you in the orange jumpsuits that says L.A. County Jail on the back of them.
That's the best thing that could ever happen to you. That is on my bucket list.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, you -- hey, look at me. You go back and fleece your flock at your church if they want to. Don't fleece us anymore. Yes, yes, you. You, you're disrespectful. You're a piece of (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Can you believe this? Are these folks fired up or what? Bell's biggest defender is now the former town manager, a guy that we have been telling you about all week. He goes by the name Robert Rizzo -- his salary, almost $800,000. And now word today that Rizzo's pension payments could amount to $20 million over the rest of his life.
Now, this public employee pension stuff is a bit of a sticky wicket, isn't it, with many Americans, especially when Americans end up having to pay the bill. We have been doing a little research on this. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCIA FRITZ, PENSION REFORM ADVOCATE: So, it's like auto insurance. If somebody crashes, their rates will go up. Bell's rates will definitely go up because of this. But so will Citrus Heights and Rancho Cordova and Lincoln. The taxpayers all over the state will be paying for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's California. Towns that had nothing to do with these guys could end up having to foot the bill for their pensions.
You see, Bell is part of a pension pool with other small California towns. So, now residents in 140 California municipalities are going to be footing part of Bell's pension bill.
And we heard late this afternoon that the Los Angeles County district attorney has been gathering evidence against the town of Bell since March. Their investigation is, of course, gathering speed now, and the whole country is talking about it. And you have been tweeting about it by the thousands throughout the course of the day as well. Keep them coming. We want to hear what you think about this situation.
All right, coming up, how's this for an investment, a guy who turned $45 into $200 million? What did he do? Well, all he did was, he bought a couple of boxes of old negatives at a garage sale. Now he's hit the jackpot with these pictures by one of the greatest photographers in American history. How did he do it? What's he saying about it?
Brooke Baldwin found the guy, and she's going to bring us his story, his words in just a little bit. Here's Brooke.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lucky guy.
SANCHEZ: He sure is. How come we don't have that kind of luck?
BALDWIN: Two hundred million?
SANCHEZ: All right, now back to those wacky cash-loving city officials in Bell. You know the police chief was pulling in $457,000 a year, right? Imagine if you heard that and you were running the force in a city like, let's say, Brooke, Atlanta, where the outgoing chief, we have learned, Richard Pennington, has been making a mere $200,000 to keep one of America's biggest cities safe.
So, he makes $200,000 in Atlanta. The other guy makes $457,000 in a city of 35,000 people?
BALDWIN: Wow.
SANCHEZ: Who else doesn't even come close to Bell's top cop?
Well, take a few guesses as our national conversation in prime time rolls on. We do lists and you're going to like this one.
Hey, Brooke.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to the LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Want the rest of this thing? Here we go.
California's now former police chief was living large, raking in nearly half-a-million dollars a year, thanks to generous, if unsuspecting, taxpayers. So, you could forgive the Los Angeles police chief for being green with envy, right?
Charlie Becks salary, just $307,000. And, folks, I don't really have to tell you, do I, just how much larger L.A. is than Bell, California? Even in Chicago -- we checked there as well -- Chief Jody Weis just can't match the payday that he would have gotten in Bell. Annual salary, Chicago, $310,000.
We do something every day that we call trending topics, and it's time to do that.
Brooke Baldwin handles this for us.
And I imagine that you have the things that people are sharing with each other on the Internet.
BALDWIN: Yes. This is my favorite story of the day. And it's funny, because it makes those salaries actually look like chump change once I tell you.
This guy went to this garage sale about 10 years ago out in California, and he forked over 45 bucks for some wooden boxes with some glass negatives inside. Well, guess what? It turns out those negatives are from photographs taken by famed photographer Ansel Adams.
The question is, how did this guy actually prove that? He told me he had to meet with photography experts, art dealers and a weather guy? Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Why would you need a meteorologist to look at these pictures? What in the world would they be looking at?
RICK NORSIGIAN, BOUGHT ANSEL ADAMS NEGATIVES: Well, we found out that one of Ansel's original pictures, and it was of a tree, which I think you had there in that one right there --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: OK.
NORSIGIAN: We -- that one is mine. But we found one just like that that Ansel took, and the meteorologist checked the clouds, all the snow pack and the shadow on the ground and determined that those were taken within minutes of each other. It's the same thing.
SANCHEZ: Are you -- what are you going to do with the money?
NORSIGIAN: Well, number one, of course, I'm going to -- I'm going to take care of my family.
SANCHEZ: Good for you.
NORSIGIAN: My grandkids. And then -- and then I'm going to -- my wife's been with me for -- putting up with me for all these years and I want to get out of the hot summer and hopefully get to the coast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You know --
BALDWIN: Beach house.
SANCHEZ: I'm just thinking I'd be a tad bit more excited if I've just realized that I made $200 million.
BALDWIN: Maybe he already did the yelling, the shouting, the running around the room. He was as all cool as a cucumber for us.
SANCHEZ: By the way, if you want to see that entire interview, it's a really cool --
BALDWIN: Which was great.
SANCHEZ: -- fun interview to watch, it's on our blog.
BALDWIN: Yes. Yes. CNN.com/ricksanchez.
SANCHEZ: Thank you very much.
BALDWIN: On my list number two, as we can, roll this way. We'll show this tweet as it's tweeting today because she's been on Capitol Hill. She's an ESPN reporter. She's also a stalking victim.
Erin Andrews, she says, "Just finished up on Capitol Hill. Went really well. Got a Favre, Garza and Gators joke in. Going to talk to senators now about the bill."
What bill you're asking? She is pressing for legislation to boost her federal anti-stalking law. She says anyone, anyone can be a victim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIN ANDREWS, ESPN REPORTER/STALKING VICTIM: There have been times over the past year that I have screamed, I have cried, I have said to my family, why me? Why is this happening to me? And the senator mentioned it doesn't just happen to people that are in the limelight. It mostly happens to just people that are trying to live their everyday life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: The measure was introduced in the House last week. It would cover spy ware, bugging, other higher tech technologies. Andrews was the victim of the stalker who videotaped her. Awful story. Remember this?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: Put the peephole camera in the peephole of the hotels.
SANCHEZ: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
BALDWIN: The guy is now in prison going for two years. Of course, she wishes it would be longer. She's pushing for tougher legislation on the hill.
SANCHEZ: That's amazing.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Well, she's been very tough throughout this.
BALDWIN: She has.
SANCHEZ: I mean, she had a tough time dealing with this, but she's turned it into something that I think will help other people.
BALDWIN: Good to hear her step forward and speak about it.
SANCHEZ: Fantastic.
BALDWIN: That's what's trending.
SANCHEZ: All right, thanks so much.
BALDWIN: You're welcome.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: High unemployment. World debt issues. Gold is a safe haven asset in these uncertain times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, it's time to tackle this issue. You've probably seen these commercials for goldline.com, maybe even right here on CNN. Well, who are they? And is it a safe place to really put your money?
Turns out the company is under investigation, but Goldline adamantly defends their business. We are about to hear from both sides of this story.
And what is it like to steer a little tiny boat through 300 alligators on a feeding frenzy? I know. But I want to find out what happened in this -- why are all those gators in the same place? That's a big river, right? We're going to explain in "fotos."
And do you want to see RICK'S LIST behind the scenes? Check out my team putting together this program in my daily twit vids. We love this thing. We're very proud of this. We want you to check it out and tell us what you think. Students all over the country use it as an educational tool. It's twitter.com/ricksanchezCNN. Twitter.com/ricksanchezCNN. We're going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. If you want to protect your money, if you want to hedge against inflation, just go for the gold. Well, that's been the mantra for a lot of investors especially during the rocky economic times these last couple of years. With every other investment feeling volatile, the price of gold has been going up. In fact, on a meteoric rise to record highs recently. Check it out over the last decade. In fact, here, compare that to the S&P 500, the broadcast measure of -- the broadest measure of stocks.
Well, now a company that sells gold to consumers, Goldline International, out of California, is under investigation by authorities in Los Angeles, by Congress, and is facing at least one class-action lawsuit for its sales techniques. And Consumer Reports calls its prices for collectible coins inflated.
You've probably seen their ads on TV, even on this station. Goldline has been getting some extra attention lately because it's got a prominent lineup of celebrity endorsements including two former presidential candidates and FOX News host Glenn Beck.
We're bringing you this story tonight because a lot of you might be considering putting your money in gold. And some of what you hear may be confusing. Some may not be true. And we want to parse it out for you as best we can.
Tonight, I'm joined by Congressman Anthony Weiner of New York who is leading a congressional investigation into Goldline and into gold dealing as an industry. I'm also going to be talking with Goldline's executive vice president, Scott Carter, in just a moment.
But first, Congressman Weiner, you have some of the accusations in this case so let me begin with you. Is your problem the product or the pitch?
REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: Well, listen, gold may be a good investment, it might be a good hedge. Some people think there's a gold bubble that we're now -- there are smart ways and dumb ways to buy gold and Goldline is a very dumb way. The Consumer Reports put it exactly right. Their prices are so wildly inflated that when you get down to the value of the actual gold in the coin, it would take you another 30 years of that chart you just showed for them needed to catch up with all the markup.
What's really going on here is that people are being taken advantage of. They're hearing about the instability in the market. They're hearing about the problems with currency, being encouraged to invest in gold, very often by conservative commentators they trust. And then they see an advertisement for Goldline which says things that the city of Los Angeles lawsuit, the attorney general of Missouri, Better Business Bureau, many people have said are just not good ways to invest.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me -- Congressman, let me bring something to your attention. Goldline -- and this may surprise you, you may know about it. It has an "A" plus rating with the Better Business Bureau, unlike other gold dealers like Superior Gold, for example, that it is also being investigated by the L.A. district attorney and Santa Monica City attorney. That company got an "F" rating because they ignored most of the complaints against them. So why are you focused specifically on Goldline?
WEINER: Well, let me say this about the Better Business Bureau. First of all, they measure complaints and there have been dozens of complaints that gets them to the Better Business Bureau. In fact, one of the reasons there haven't been more is that Goldline admits, and I hope you'll ask them about this, they make people who they settle a dispute with sign a non-complaint, nondisclosure agreement, which certainly reduces the amount of complaints they have. Secondly, there's been a lot written about how easy it is that Better Business Bureau sells its A-plus ratings. Starbucks has an "F." This company has an A-plus despite the fact that they have dozens of complaints against them.
And finally, there's a thing that the Better Business Bureau doesn't look into and that's a simply inflated price. They might give terrific service, but they're ripping you off when they do it because the melt value of their coins is astronomically higher than what it would be if you invested in gold and other ways.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you about something. Apparently Goldline's promotional materials are warning consumers that back in 1933 during the Great Depression, the government banned hoarding gold and confiscated people's gold bouillon. So that's what they seem to say in the ads. Now, there's no ban now on owning gold anymore, but Goldline's latest newsletter seems to warn it could happen again and it could happen to you. In fact, those are the words that they use. Do you believe that's an unfair assertion?
WEINER: Of course it is. First of all, it hasn't been true for a long time, and it is part of their sales pitch. They prey on people's insecurities and fear. That's why they have people like Glenn Beck as their spokesman. It's their entire -- his entire dog and pony show is about making people scared and insecure.
Let's remember something. At the time that that happened in the FDR administration is when we had gold backing to our dollars. So when the government was trying to stabilize after the depression, there was a period of time when they asked people to come in at market value and sell their gold back.
SANCHEZ: So, just for the record, you're saying --
WEINER: Fear mongering --
SANCHEZ: Hold on a minute. Just for the record, you're saying Glenn Beck goes on the air and tries to frighten people to try and convince them that the only choice they have is then gold? Is that what you're asserting?
WEINER: Well, Rick, I don't know if the tone of your voice is real surprise or not. But if you watch Glenn Beck, that's exactly what he does just about every single day. And then seamlessly they go into these ads for Goldline. This is a terrible way -- frankly, look, there are rip-off companies around. But the way that they work hand in glove with their celebrity endorsers is truly is troubling which is why I called out FOX and Glenn Beck on this in particular.
SANCHEZ: All right. My thanks to you, Congressman Anthony Weiner, for coming on and sharing your perspective on this.
For the record, Glenn Beck declined to comment on this. We reached out to him, and Anthony Weiner and L.A. investigations. But a spokesperson did refer us to weinerfacts.com, a Web site that takes on allegations against Goldline and takes on the people who make them.
All right. So, let's do this now. Let's switch over to Scott Carter now. He's the executive vice president of Goldline International who's joining us now live from Los Angeles.
I thinks since we ended with the discussion about Glenn Beck, I'll go ahead and start you there. What do you make of the assertion that Glenn Beck and others and, by the way, you sponsor Glenn Beck's radio show, correct? Not his TV show. To be fair.
SCOTT CARTER, EXEC., V.P., GOLDLINE INTL.: That is correct. We have a traditional relationship with Glenn Beck. We sponsor his radio show. But we advertise on many channels.
SANCHEZ: OK, but let me just -- CARTER: We have on your station.
SANCHEZ: But let me just -- you're right. You're right. You have ran ads, to be totally transparent, here on CNN as well.
But I think the relationship that the congressman tried to bring up is whether or not there's some kind of quid pro quo with someone who you sponsor their radio show, who goes on television or, pardon me, who goes on radio, and states that the situation economically is very, very bad, that we're on the brink of losing our democracy, and that the way they can save themselves, his listeners, is by buying your product. Is there -- is there an ethical problem with that as far as you're concerned? And do you in any way encourage him to put out that message?
CARTER: Well, we have no control over the content of Mr. Beck's show. We're a standard advertiser. But let's face it, Rick. All throughout the media there's discussion about the concerns in the economy. Whether you're on Capitol Hill, whether you're talking to institutional investors, whether you're talking to central bankers, there's concerns about devaluation of our currency. There's concerns about our long-term buying power, and what we provide is for individuals to diversify their portfolio by having a component of their portfolio in a physical asset, such as gold, which is historically been a hedge against these concerns long term.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me ask you about some of the accusations then. Look at this situation.
There's this man in Michigan who told us that he called Goldline because he wanted to buy gold bouillon. Pure gold. Right? But he was persuaded to buy gold coins instead. And Congressman Weiner, in his report, points this out. He says that Goldline sales representative aggressively pushed him toward the sale of collector coins over bouillon because the company has the largest profit margin on them and the sales representatives make the largest commission. Is this true? Do your employees push customers toward buying coins over bouillons because you make a higher profit margin on them?
CARTER: That's an inaccurate statement. We offer a full range of products. We sell tens of millions of dollars every year in bouillon. We also sell collector coins. And it's important to point out, Rick, that when you see our ads that -- that are running on TV, the very products that are marketed on those ads, older European coins, proof American coins --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
CARTER: -- these are the products that when a client calls, those are the products that are represented to them.
SANCHEZ: But why do you -- but why does --
CARTER: Let me make one more point.
SANCHEZ: Please, go ahead. CARTER: We're an inbound call center and therefore, we're not outbound calling. So the individuals are contacting us first.
SANCHEZ: Why does your company promote the idea that gold bouillons can be confiscated by the government when we know there's a law that does not allow the government to do that?
CARTER: Well, let's be clear on the facts. One, the law still exists for the government. Two, to confiscate gold, if they choose to do so. And there is no debate about --
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, there's a law, sir. You could say that about anything. There's something out there that says the government can do whatever it wants to do in a case of war, national emergency, but that's not what we're talking about. That's a big if, isn't it?
CARTER: Well, you're making my point for me. Because the fact is the government has taken over corporations, it's taken out auto companies, it's taken over banks. In extraordinary times like we're experiencing today, the government can and will take advantage. And by the way, confiscation is only one of the features and benefits of why individuals buy coins with collector value. There's also a price guarantee program we offer. There's concerns about privacy.
SANCHEZ: But don't you see where people -- but don't you see -- one final thing to you. Don't you see where people might think that that sounds an awful lot like a scare tactic? Like you're using, perhaps, radio hosts or others to use their credibility to scare people into buying something that they don't necessarily need? Is that a fair accusation against your company? Or how would you defend yourself against that?
CARTER: Not in my view. Gold is recently in the news, but for the last ten years it has been a stellar investment. Individuals have been contacting us for 50 years, Rick. We've been in business for 50 years. So this diversification strategy is a long-term asset.
SANCHEZ: I get that. I get that.
CARTER: Some banks are doing it.
SANCHEZ: Well, I get that. And you say it takes sometimes at least five years or somebody who buys your gold to be able to -- to be able to show a profit on it. That's an important point that needs to be made as well.
My thanks to you, sir, for taking time to take us through your side of this explanation as well. And I'm being told that Congressman Anthony Weiner is shaking his head for something he just heard. Did you say -- Congressman Weiner, let me bring you back in. Are you still there?
WEINER: I am. SANCHEZ: Just for the sake of clarity about the law, whether or not the FDR law was actually changed and if there is a law on the books that actually says that the government can't take your gold whenever they want to?
WEINER: Yes, that -- you see -- it's another -- more than one thing that made me shake my head. But I'm holding here Executive Order 11825 effective December 1974 which says that all of those provisions are null and void and they were essentially eliminated from the registry. But the scare continues.
You heard it right there in response to your question. The insecurities in the news. This is not whether you should buy gold. It's whether you should buy gold from that guy. That guy, if you look at my Web site at House.gov/weiner, people can compare for themselves the price of gold that's currently available.
SANCHEZ: All right.
WEINER: And you see what a markup they have.
SANCHEZ: Congressman Anthony Weiner, my thanks to you for bringing light to this subject and we also thank the folks at Goldline for availing themselves of this interview and letting us hear both sides of this story.
Up next, the list that you don't want to be on.
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SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
All right, it's summer time. And one of my favorite places to take my kids when I was in the -- well, being in the south for so long, is the Suwannee River, just like the song says, right?
Well, after this next video, I'm going to ask myself, ay, dios mio, what was I thinking? Let's do "fotos."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah, dios mio.
SANCHEZ: That's the dios mio shot. Wildlife experts who watched this called it a feeding frenzy and what were these big gators feeding on? Mud fish and suckers that were trapped in the shallow canal. I mean, this is something like a gusto film, right? Delicious, say the gators.
The man behind the camera told his local paper the gators were 10 feet long and rolling all over themselves. Three hundred of them he says. So if my kids are watching, be good. We'll take you back to the Suwannee River, my wife and I.
From gators to tornadoes now. Look at the beating in the Bronx. Took over the weekend. This is the -- only the second time, we understand in history, that a tornado has touched down there. It smashed cars. It knocked over trees, knocked over power lines. We got this video from our i-Reporter Beth Alice. Thank you, Beth. Last time the Bronx got bombed by a twister, 1974.
And if that's not a sign of the apocalypse, check out the crew from MTV's the "Jersey Shore" who have crossed the Hudson to help ring the opening bell at the New York Stock Exchange. Their new season premieres Thursday on MTV. It's not the first time that Snooki and the gang have been in the news lately. On Sunday, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie complained that the show promotes a negative image of his state. Certainly promotes a negative image of the state's barbers (ph) anyway. That's the situation in "fotos" which you can see, by the way, for yourself by just going to my blog CNN.com/ricksanchez.
In just a moment, "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On." Tonight, an Oscar-winning director who's had some pretty shocking things to say lately. No, it's not Mel Gibson.
Also, our follow-up list tonight, Warren Jeffs. Remember him, the polygamist who was convicted of rape charges in Utah? That state's Supreme Court has ordered a brand new trial today but said they don't want to cause additional pain to the victims.
Later tonight on "AC 360," the amazing story of one woman who escaped Jeff's sect. That's at 10:00 Eastern. We'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Here now what many of you say is your favorite part of this newscast. Oliver Stone has ticked off a lot of people over his career, in his movies. He's taken on bankers, he's taken on presidents, he's taken on wars, even football coaches. Well, this time it's landing him on a little something that we call "The List That U Don't Want 2 Be On."
In a recent interview, the Hollywood director started talking about the Holocaust. Saying, this is a direct quote, "Hitler was Frankenstein, but there was also a Dr. Frankenstein. German industrialists, the Americans and the British. He had a lot of support. Hitler did far more damage to the Russians than the Jewish people."
He goes on to talk about what he called, quote, "the Jewish domination of the media," adding that Israel has or had f'd up the United States' foreign policy for years. That's a direct quote.
The American Jewish Committee blasted Stone. They're calling him an anti-Semite and compared his comments to the, quote, "Jew-hating rants of his fellow Hollywood celebrity, Mel Gibson." Ouch. They're, of course, referring to Gibson's tirade a few years ago when a cop said that Gibson blamed Jews for all the wars in the world.
Well, now, Oliver Stone is apologizing. Let me bring you up to date. In a statement that he said late, quote, "In trying to make a broader historical point about the range of atrocities the Germans committed against many people, I made a clumsy association about the Holocaust, for which I am sorry and I regret." But the thing is, Stone is, to be clear, a repeat offender. Just seven months ago in another interview, he called Hitler an easy scapegoat, an easy scapegoat throughout history. So tonight, for all of his, let's call them ill-considered comments, the very thing that we often say lacks nuance when one speaks on this RICK'S LIST, Oliver Stone lands himself on "The List That U Don't Want 2 Be On."
Guess who Larry King has on tonight? Michael Moore joins Larry right after this. We'll see you tomorrow.
