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Rick's List
Outrage at Arlington National Cemetery; What Next For Arizona?; Gates, Mullen Address Media About Leaked Military Documents; Sheriff Joe Arpaio Addresses Media on AZ Immigration Law Protests; LA Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa Discusses Arpaio's Comments to Media, AZ Protests; President Obama Visits "The View"; "Essence" Magazine Hires White Fashion Editor; Will Arizona Law Target Asian Americans Along With Latinos?
Aired July 29, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here's what's making your LIST today. Arizona can't do what it wanted on immigration. So what now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not just about Arizona and it's not just about Mexican-Americans. This is about Hondurans. This is about Argentines. This is about Puerto Ricans.
SANCHEZ: If they won, why are these activists still protesting?
J.D. HAYWORTH (R), ARIZONA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: This is an invasion, a national security threat and an economic security threat, and we have to stop it.
SANCHEZ: J.D. Hayworth wants to get elected senator on this issue. He comes on the LIST live.
Is Afghanistan worth fighting when for the cost of keeping one soldier there for a year, we could build and run 20 schools? Think about that.
Outrage at Arlington National Cemetery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have learned of shocking stories about Arlington, bodies accidentally buried in the same graves, unmarked and mismarked graves.
SANCHEZ: Grave errors that dishonor the dead and disgust the living.
An Ethics Committee spells it out for Congressman Charlie Rangel. Will he fight back or quit?
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: I survived a Chinese attack in North Korea -- having survived that, that I haven't had a bad day since. Today, I have to reassess that statement.
SANCHEZ: Can you guess what list he's on? And what's on the cover of "TIME" that's so disturbing and so controversial?
The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's landed on the list you don't want to be on? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list.
Pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hey, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
During this newscast, you're going to get breaking news on what's going on with Charlie Rangel. You're also going to get breaking news on everything going on in Arizona with reaction to the law that did not go into effect early today.
But the other big story that we're following right now has more to do with the secretary of defense. For the first time, we're about to hear from Robert Gates and we expect that he has some not-so-kind words about the folks from WikiLeaks.
Let's go ahead and dip into this, Rog.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
ROBERT GATES, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: -- for our troops, our allies and Afghan partners, and may well damage our relationships and reputation in that key part of the world.
Intelligence sources and methods, as well as military tactics, techniques and procedures will become known to our adversaries.
This department is conducting a thorough, aggressive investigation to determine how this leak occurred, to identify the person or persons responsible, and to assess the content of the information compromised.
We have a moral responsibility to do everything possible to mitigate the consequences for our troops and our partners downrange, especially those who have worked with and put their trust in us in the past, who now may be targeted for retribution.
Yesterday, I called FBI Director Robert Mueller and asked for the FBI's assistance in our investigation as a partner. It is important that we have all the resources we need to investigate and assess this breach of national security.
Furthermore, the department is taking action in theater to prevent a repeat of such a breach, to include tightening procedures for accessing and transporting classified information.
As a general proposition, we endeavor to push access to sensitive battlefield information down to where it is most useful -- on the front lines -- where as a practical matter there are fewer restrictions and controls than at rear headquarters.
In the wake of this incident, it will be a real challenge to strike the right balance between security and providing our frontline troops the information they need.
The U.S. military's success over the years rests on the abilities and integrity of its men and women in uniform and our trust in them. This trust is represented by the fact that, relative to our countries' armed forces, our military culture is one that on the battlefield places great responsibility on the shoulders of even junior service members, to include entrusting them with sensitive information.
The American way of war depends upon it.
But to earn and maintain that trust, we must all be responsible in handling, protecting and safeguarding our nation's secrets. For years there has been what I would call appropriate criticism of excessive classification and overclassification of information.
However, this recent release of documents is a pointed reminder that much secret information is treated as such to protect sources of information, to protect the lives of our men and women in uniform, to deny our enemies the information about our military operations, and to preserve our relationships with friends and allies.
This recent massive breach should be a reminder to all entrusted with our secrets that there are potentially dramatic and grievously harmful consequences of violations of trust and responsibility.
We will aggressively investigate and, wherever possible, prosecute such violations.
SANCHEZ: And we understand that investigation is going to be going on for quite some time. There you have, in fact, Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
Admiral Mullen is going to talk right now. Let's go ahead and listen to a little bit of Admiral Mullen, before we go on this, just to see what he has to say.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
ADMIRAL MICHAEL MULLEN, JOINTS CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: -- behavior and, frankly, outraged that anyone in their right mind would think it valuable to make public even one sensitive report, let alone tens of thousands of them, about a war that is being waged. Yes, the documents are old and essentially raw inputs to our intelligence and operations apparatus, and, yes, much of what has been revealed has already been commonly understood by the public or otherwise covered in the media.
I can assure you, having just come from visits to Afghanistan and Pakistan, that none of what I have seen posted online or reported in the press affects our overarching strategy.
But, frankly, that's not why this is so destructive. The sheer size and scope of the collection now demands a careful review to determine the degree to which future tactical operations may be impacted and the degree to which the lives of our troops and Afghan partners may be at risk.
And I think we always need to be mindful of the unknown potential for damage in any particular document that we handle.
SANCHEZ: So, as you can see, both of these gentlemen are very upset about this leak that was given to WikiLeaks that was then shared by three newspapers, including "The New York Times."
They say an investigation as to who the person who actually leaked the information is continuing to see if perhaps there were accomplices involved as well, and that the appropriate measures will be taken, a story that much of the nation has been focused on. And as there's more information coming forth, we're going to share it with you.
Now, one of the biggest stories that we're following today has to do with Charlie Rangel. Charlie Rangel -- the question really with Charlie Rangel is, is he going to step down to save himself and his party the embarrassment of this ethics hearing? Or will he stay and fight?
I want you to carefully listen to Charlie Rangel in his own words, looking as forlorn as perhaps we have ever seen him. Listen and watch as he talks to reporters in the hallways today in Washington. Here, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANGEL: Sixty years ago, I survived a Chinese attack in North Korea. And, as result, I wrote a book that, having survived that, that I haven't had a bad day since. Today, I have to reassess that statement.
Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "Today, I have to reassess that statement." Does that sound like a man who's getting ready to quit, step away from something he's always wanted to do, a man who's always been very much in the limelight?
Just let me tell you where the story is and then we will move on, because we might be getting more on this story as we continue this newscast. But the House Ethics Committee hearing on Capitol Hill is focusing on what we're hearing now.
Republican Congressman Michael McCaul says 13 serious allegations have already been presented. The charges include failure to make financial disclosures and failure to pay taxes on a home in the D.R., in the Dominican Republic.
There's a lot of talk that Democrats are going to take Charlie Rangel aside and try and convince him just to step down and not put himself or the party through this with the midterms coming up.
However, there's no confirmation that any decisions have been reached yet. Obviously, we have got the best teams in Washington working on this. And as soon as there's any kind of development, we're going to be checking in with the Ed Henrys and the Brianna Keilars and everybody else up there who is keeping a very close eye on this story. So you can depend on us here on CNN to bring the very latest on the Charlie Rangel developments.
Also making news right now, I don't know if you have been seeing this all day long. But you know the judge gutted Arizona's immigration law yesterday, as we covered it live -- the leftovers which went into effect today.
But I want you to take a look at this. These are some of the protests that we have been watching all day long. These are people who oppose the law. There's been a standoff outside Maricopa County Sheriff's Joe Arpaio's office in Phoenix. We have been watching this thing all afternoon.
In fact, here, you know what? Let's do this, because there's been some pretty dramatic stuff happening that we have been monitoring. I want you to just take a look at what was happening like an hour ago there on the streets of Phoenix. Take it up full Reagan, Rog.
All right, you hear the screaming? You hear everything going on there? Protesters blocked streets outside Arpaio's office. They were trying to send a message. Some wanted to get arrested to make a point about Arpaio's controversial crime sweeps and the immigration law.
Small groups who stood in streets, handcuffed, one protester at a time, you would see them there. Then Arpaio chipped in. He said, look, he would arrest anyone who blocked the jail, and he would look them up, wearing the jail's trademark pink underwear.
Arpaio considered going down to the street himself, but then apparently he decided against it. This situation has been going on all day, and we have been watching it.
We have got some more tape. And do we have Arpaio? Is Arpaio standing by? He is speaking?
All right, let's pick this up. Here's Sheriff Joe Arpaio now speaking up the situation this morning.
Let's listen in.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) why such an expansive operation?
SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: Well, I had a chart here. I don't know where it's at.
Do you have the chart on the drop houses? QUESTION: You're not going to (OFF-MIKE)
ARPAIO: Hold on. I had a chart that I showed during the last operation. It shows you the cluster of all the drop houses and a lot of drop houses have been seized in Maryvale and so on. We're going to hit certain areas valley-wide, valley, which includes cities, that we feel that the human smuggling is taking place.
So we have -- I'm not going to say exactly right now where we will be, but we're going to be out there.
QUESTION: Sheriff, we have about a dozen buses coming in from Los Angeles.
ARPAIO: What?
QUESTION: A dozen buses coming in from Los Angeles. People are going to hit the streets here in the valley. What are your thoughts on your deputies participating in controlling the unruliness or --
ARPAIO: No, about all the 11 buses filled with people from Los Angeles?
QUESTION: Yes, sir.
ARPAIO: Hey, I guess they're not boycotting us. I would highly recommend they find a good restaurant and spend the night at a nice hotel. That's great. Build up the economy. Come on down. I hope there's 50,000 that come here.
(CROSSTALK)
ARPAIO: Hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
ARPAIO: I got other people to talk to, Channel 9.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All righty, hey, Carrie? Carrie, let me show you exactly what all is going on here.
SANCHEZ: As we watch this, I want to bring in somebody else.
This is Mayor Villaraigosa of Los Angeles. He's been watching this.
I'm looking forward to hearing your reaction to the comportment and the accusations that have been leveled against Maricopa Sheriff Arpaio.
What are your thoughts as you watch him holding this news conference, Mr. Mayor?
MAYOR ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA (D), LOS ANGELES: I think he's a caricature, and, unfortunately, he's the face of not just Arizona law, SB-1070, but the efforts to ban ethnic studies in our schools, the directive that, if you have a heavy accent, you can't teach English as a second language in Arizona, the proposal to strip citizen children, guaranteed under the Constitution that citizenship by virtue of being born here, stripped of their citizenship because their parents may have been here without documentation, and, finally, proposals that say, if you can't prove your residency, you don't get electricity into your home or apartment.
These are the kinds of things. It's not just SB-1070. It's been a whole slew of proposals that, frankly, go against the grain of our Constitution, as was ruled yesterday by Judge Bolton, but also the traditions of this great country that welcomed my grandpa here 100 years ago.
SANCHEZ: Do you think that Sheriff Joe Arpaio and perhaps some people like Sheriff Joe Arpaio are doing this out of a deep-seated resentment that they may hold against these people who often end up being the targets of their admonitions? Or is it simply something they feel they need to do for political reasons perhaps?
VILLARAIGOSA: I'm not going to speculate on that. Sometimes, though, watching him, as I did right now, it looked pretty political to me. I will say, where I agree --
SANCHEZ: What do you mean by that? What do you mean? Hey, Mayor, you just said, "That looked pretty political to me," because I have heard that kind of stuff said before. What does that mean?
VILLARAIGOSA: Well, when I said caricature, look, the role of leadership, including law enforcement, enforce our laws, obviously, respect the rule of law, but, you know, do so in a way that brings people together, that emphasizes our commonalities, that -- that focuses on the application of the law in a very neutral way.
You do hear and see someone acting, using this frankly for other purposes. And I think that's what a lot of people find offensive.
But what I was about to say, where I agree with many people, those who support and those who oppose Arizona law SB-1070, is that we're here because the federal government has failed to act.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
VILLARAIGOSA: They have the responsibility, as reaffirmed by Judge Bolton, to address this issue of comprehensive immigration reform, to secure our borders, to address smuggling and the other things that go on.
And the fact of the matter is that they have just failed in that responsibility, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Why is that? Why has the government -- because you make a very strong point. It seems all like the ire is focused on the illegal immigrants who are in the United States, when some could make a very strong argument that it's the government that has all but allowed them to stay here by giving them tax I.D.s and other things that allow them to legally work, even though they're not here legally, and U.S. businesses literally go down to Mexico and other places and recruit these people and invite them to come here.
So, after they're recruited and after they're invited, and after the government lets them stay, and after the government lets them work, they're the bad guys. And some people say, maybe we have got our ire on the wrong attention.
VILLARAIGOSA: That's exactly right.
Look, the Congress has a responsibility, beginning with the Senate Republicans who -- 11 of whom as I understand it actually voted and supported McCain/Kennedy a couple of years back that are still there in the Senate and have refused to get behind the Schumer proposal or any other comprehensive immigration reform proposal that Lin Graham had talked about support for.
The fact is that the Senate, but leadership on both sides of the aisle have to acknowledge that we need to move ahead with comprehensive immigration reform. There has been a lot of talk that maybe that won't be a possibility in this session.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Are they courageous enough? One final question, because I'm told I have got to go. We're late into this interview.
But is it a problem with courage, something you, your dad and my dad would call just guts? It takes a lot of guts to do difficult things. This is a very difficult thing. Are there not enough gutsy guys in Washington who will step into this fray and do it because they're so worried about their jobs and the political consequences?
VILLARAIGOSA: You know, I'm going to bite the bait.
Yes, there's a lack of political courage. We have got to stand up for what's right. We have got to enforce the rule of law. We have got to secure our borders, but we have got to provide a pathway for citizenship. We have got to support the DREAM Act and AG jobs, but comprehensive immigration reform is key.
We have got to make sure that the federal government is doing its jobs, so states like Arizona aren't trying to fill the vacuum.
SANCHEZ: Antonio Villaraigosa, the mayor of Los Angeles, good enough to join us and spend some time with us talking about the developments that are taking place, not only in Arizona, but what people are talking about all over the country on their kitchen tables.
When we come back, a police officer who spent many, many years there in Phoenix will describe for us, will give us the play-by-play of some of these pictures that we have been showing you that are still taking place in Phoenix.
People from all over the country have gone to Phoenix today and are confronting police officers, as Sheriff Arpaio was describing moments ago. That's what it looks like. Live pictures are just now coming in. We're going to let you know what's going on. If there are any other confrontations or arrests or any other issues, you will see it as it plays out right here on RICK'S LIST. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, I want to show you these pictures now first and foremost.
Go ahead and take these, Roger. I think we do now have some live pictures that are coming in from Arizona. All right, there you go. We have been seeing shots like this all day long, but we understand that the venues have changed. Throughout the day, people have been gathering, many of them from all over the country.
They have come in to Phoenix, Arizona, to state their case that they're angry about some things that Arizona has tried to do or already has done in the past. Many of you are watching this and you're thinking, well, what are they angry about?
I mean, essentially, they won the argument yesterday when the judge really stuck a dagger right in the heart of that immigration law that was supposed to begin today. Well, what they're saying is that they feel Arizona has done enough in the past, that they need to be brought to the nation's attention, and that's the reason they're there, some of them holding signs, some of them chanting, some of them literally willing to be arrested and have been.
Several handful of protesters have already been arrested by Maricopa sheriffs. That's why Arpaio, Joe Arpaio that is, was holding that news conference just a little while ago.
I want to bring Jessica Yellin in. She's there in Arizona. She's been there for several days now following this story.
Jessica, we're going to stay with this picture, just to let people know what is going on. But we have watched people be arrested. We have watched people come in. It looks like the judge made the decision yesterday, but the conversation is far from over, right?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. These protesters, Rick, came from -- as you say, they came from New York, across the country, New York, Massachusetts. I met some from California, across the West Coast.
They say it's not about the injunction. They called the injunction a temporary reprieve. And they're protesting, as you explained, not just this law, but the practices of Arizona and Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
They feel -- I heard your interview with Mayor Villaraigosa. They feel that Arpaio's practices -- they went further than him -- are racial profiling. They feel that he is targeting illegals.
And I interviewed a woman who came here from San Diego and asked, well, look, why are you upset with Sheriff Arpaio? If there was an injunction, why are you still here? Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's trying to create a police state, and we're not OK with that.
YELLIN: What would you like to see happen next?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We would like for SB-1070 to completely be gone, and for the climate in Arizona to become friendlier to the people that make it a good state.
YELLIN: Do you feel that this was a victory, the injunction?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, because there's a lot of things that were left in the legislation that needed to come out. As a matter of fact, the whole legislation needs to come out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: So, they want to see the law struck down entirely and practices throughout Arizona change.
Interesting, Rick, there are a lot of people registering voters and getting people absentee -- signed up for absentee ballots, because they want to increase the participation of Latino voters here in all the elections.
If I can add one thing, I will tell you, it was all very peaceable. The sheriff's deputies here very calm. They even, Rick, asked the women, would you like your friends to hold your purse or would you like us to take your purse and give it back to you after you're arrested and released?
(LAUGHTER)
YELLIN: Never seen that before, Rick.
SANCHEZ: It's almost like it's a Kabuki dance. Everyone knows what they're going to do. Everyone plays their part. And that's the way these folks were arrested.
YELLIN: Yes, a ceremony.
SANCHEZ: No, you're right. It didn't seem confrontational. It seemed -- if you can describe an arrest as being orderly, it was an orderly arrest.
In fact, I want to pick up on this now. Jessica, by the way, you have been doing a great job out there. Look forward to talking to you in the next hour and tonight at 8:00.
I want to bring in my friend Andy Hill, who's been a police officer there in Phoenix for many, many years. He's been keeping us up to date on what's going on there since this controversy started.
Andy, just give us a play-by-play here real quick. We're looking at pictures of people who are protesting. As a former police officer, describe to us -- you know a lot of these guys who are going to be confronting these guys or have confronted them today.
What is the police officer's job? How do you control the protest, give their people the right to say whatever it is that they want to say without amping the situation up, without escalating it to the point where things could possibly get worse? What's the game plan?
ANDY HILL, FORMER PHOENIX, ARIZONA, POLICE SERGEANT: Well, exactly what you're talking about, Rick. And it's good to be with you.
What a police officer, number one, has to do is keep the peace, provide people with a constitutional right to demonstrate. We welcome that, the peaceful demonstration where laws aren't broken. Try and facilitate everything that will keep a problem from happening or a confrontation by making sure that people are, you know, in a place where they need, that they're together where they need to be. And just try and mitigate any conflict that occurs.
Today, there are planned groups trying to get people arrested. Basically, we do a lot of meeting with those groups and talking to them during the course of the weeks and days before to try and see what their ideas are to make sure that we have the best plan in place to try and keep anything that is disruptive to a minimum, and let people exercise their constitutional rights.
This is what America is all about what you've seen here. This is where the public needs to be if they want to demonstrate to all those elected officials and all those people involved in these issues about how they feel.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: One quick thing I want to ask you, though. What's the threshold, though, for compliance? What if -- for example, if I don't have a permit and I'm blocking a street where there's traffic, where people want to get to work, you have the right as a police officer to come and say you need to move because you're blocking traffic. At the point in which I resist, then you have a right to arrest me, right?
HILL: Oh, absolutely.
But that's why we have a plan in place where we tell these groups, you know, where we would like them to go, where they can block traffic, where the line is going to be drawn.
SANCHEZ: OK.
HILL: And then, when that line is drawn, then if it is crossed, yes, we know that they want to get arrested and we do it as peacefully as possible. There's a number of law enforcement agencies out here today.
SANCHEZ: So, it's all about communication. And I know you're the perfect person to ask, because you used to be one of the people involved in talking to these groups beforehand and letting them know exactly what the game, what the ground rules were and what the parameters were that you were setting.
Andy Hill, always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for joining us.
By the way, take a look at this tweet that we got just moments ago. This is from "The New York Times." And this is news that is going on now. Remember I asked you at the beginning of the newscast, what's going on with Charlie Rangel? Will he step down to avoid his own embarrassment and embarrassment to his party? Or will he go ahead and go through with this ethics case? I mean, he's going to stand trial, just like you read here.
Well, according to "The New York Times," says: "Rangel to stand trial before House panel in ethics case."
Does that -- pardon me -- does that mean that he's told his colleagues, no, I'm not stepping down; I'm going to go through; I'm going to fight?
Well, that's what we're going to need to find out. And that's what we're going to ask our Brianna Keilar when we come back here in just a moment. She's all over this story.
You're watching RICK'S LIST. A lot of news going on today, huh? I will try and have it all for you. Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, let's do this. Let's just go right to Brianna Keilar. Brianna Keilar standing by.
Break the news for us, Brianna. What is the deal with Charlie Rangel? Things seem a little hazy from this perspective. Clear this up for us.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): We'll, Rick, we just got through watching a hearing, and we are going through almost all the way through now a report that was released about these alleged violations -- 13 counts of ethics violations by Charles Rangel.
The Ethics Committee saying that there's substantial reason to believe he violated a number of rules, House gift rules and a number of other rules, having to do with four different incidents -- soliciting donations for a center named after him, the Rangel Center at the City College of New York, that he made errors and omissions on his financial disclosure statements, that he had multiple rent- stabilized apartments in New York and used one for campaign reasons, which he shouldn't have, and he failed to report and pay taxes on rental income for his villa in the Dominican Republic.
And, you know, that's not new, Rick. We knew that -- but what's new is the 13 counts involving four incidents and also this report really details some behavior on the part of Rangel. You know in the last 21 months while this investigation is going on, we --
SANCHEZ: Here's what I want to know. You ready? I want to know from you, Brianna Keilar, when this thing is going to happen, what effect or how close it will be to the midterms, and whether there's still a possibility that the Democrats can pull him aside, perhaps in a small room that's maybe dark with a light on his face, and try and say something to him like "Charlie, please, don't put yourself or us through this because it will kill us."
What are the chances that that can still happen?
KEILAR: Well, I certainly can't speak to anything about him being pulled aside in a room with a light on his face, although it's certainly a nice illustration, I know, for the drama of it.
(LAUGHTER)
But there is a lot of pressure on him. What we would expect is there could be a trial that plays maybe in September. It could go on for weeks.
SANCHEZ: And the midterms are in November. This would be in September. Uh-oh.
KEILAR: Yes. And so this is dangerously, very uncomfortably close to the mid-term elections.
SANCHEZ: For the Dems.
KEILAR: For Democrats. So the hope obviously is that he would move forward with the settlement.
That said, one of the Republicans on the ethics committee said he had a chance during the negotiation period, and we are now in the trial period. So the question remains, could he move forward towards a settlement to avoid that, but obviously that's the hope of Democrats.
SANCHEZ: Brianna Keilar doing a fantastic job illustrating that story for us and bringing us the breaking news, although I couldn't get her to cop on the hot light in a dark room.
(LAUGHTER)
That was a great moment. Thanks so much, Brianna. Thanks for bringing us up to date on that story.
Meanwhile, we've been watching the standoff outside Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office in Phoenix, Arizona. This is a protest against Arpaio's controversial crime sweeps that we've been telling you about. That's what they've looked like throughout the day.
Protestors have flown in from all over the country. They say they're willing to get arrested, and some of them have, to make their point. In fact, Sheriff Arpaio has obliged them wanting to be arrested. Protestors blocking the street have been put in plastic handcuffs one by one. They've been taken to jail, and we're going to keep watching this.
But joining me now is a man who is hoping to ride this immigration issue right into a job in Washington as a U.S. senator, the job that is now held by John McCain. Joining us now is former congressman J.D. Hayworth.
Former Congressman Hayworth, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate your time.
J.D. HAYWORTH, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Hi, Rick, thanks. And please call me J.D.
SANCHEZ: All right, there you go, J.D.
Are you doing this -- are you doing this, making so much of your campaign about the immigration issue because it's politically expedient, pure and simple?
HAYWORTH: No indeed, Rick. In fact, I'm running for the Senate because Arizona Republicans and Arizona conservatives want to have a consistent conservative in the Senate.
You may recall that five years ago as a member of the House, I introduced the Enforcement First Act. I said let's enforce existing laws much like SB-1070 here in Arizona. Also, we just have some disagreements with John McCain. He was for the bailout. I was against it. He authored the cap and trade legislation of the last Congress.
SANCHEZ: I get that, I get that.
HAYWORTH: That was an ill advised solution in search of a problem.
SANCHEZ: But you can't deny, if I was to go there and look at your campaign ads, I would get the sense, man, this guy is putting it all on this immigration thing. In fact, here, we've got one of them. This is your last ad. Roger, do you have that? Let's let the viewers watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: I helped author with Senator Kennedy comprehensive immigration reform and fought for it twice.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I stood with Ted Kennedy and John McCain and took on this tough issue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: McCain's amnesty bill would cost $2.6 trillion, rewarding illegal aliens with Social Security and Medicare benefits. Had enough? J.D. Hayworth led the fight against McCain's amnesty bill, wrote the book on securing our border, and is endorsed by Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
HAYWORTH: I'm J.D. Hayworth, and I approve this message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You know what the thing is about this ad -- I'll just do this quick with you -- that ad could have run in anytime in our history and all you had to do was take out the picture of the Mexicans and replace them with pictures of Germans or Jews or Irish or Italians. Getting Americans --
HAYWORTH: No, sir. I fundamentally disagree with the premise of what you're saying.
SANCHEZ: Hold on. Getting some Americans to turn on the latest immigrant group to get off the boat doesn't exactly require a lot of intellectual prowess.
HAYWORTH: Rick, let's be honest here.
SANCHEZ: Aren't you picking the low-lying fruit here?
HAYWORTH: No, Rick. Rick, you are absolutely wrong. And let me explain why. Throughout what you were mentioning, the litany of people coming to the country, they did so orderly. Many of them through a place called Ellis Island.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: No, I'm going to stop you right there. These people, did they -- when they were in Ireland, let's say, or they were in Germany, did they petition the United States for permission to come to the United States? Or did they just get on a boat and show up?
HAYWORTH: Well, I know they came to a port of entry where they made application to come to the United States. And as you may recall from history, Rick, many of them were turned down, but they did so in an orderly --
SANCHEZ: No, no less than one-half of one percent were turned down, and that's because they have communicable diseases.
When did we even start taking account? When did immigration even become illegal, because prior to that, there was no such thing as legal immigration? Do you happen to know that?
HAYWORTH: Rick, I'm not here to be quizzed on United States history. What I recognize is what is past is prologue, and in the immediate past --
SANCHEZ: But you should know this.
HAYWORTH: The last quarter century precisely -- Rick, now, I didn't come here to play "gotcha." I came to answer questions about the here and now.
And the here and now in Arizona, if my opponent John McCain is reelected and continues with his amnesty plans, according the Heritage Foundation, $2.6 trillion in Social Security and Medicare retirement benefits to illegals granted amnesty, granted citizenship, I think that's a significant concern.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question.
HAYWORTH: We can quibble about history, or we can talk about the here and now.
SANCHEZ: Let's leave history alone. Do you know anything about the arguments coming from the other side regarding illegal immigrants? Because I mean, you make --
HAYWORTH: Sure, I hear their arguments all the time.
SANCHEZ: Do you think they make any contributions to life in America?
HAYWORTH: Well, I think that legal immigrants do --
SANCHEZ: No, illegal, illegal, illegal.
HAYWORTH: No, I think if we embrace, Rick, which you seem willing to do, embrace the myth of the "noble migrant," to use the term, fails to take into account those who have come here. For example, infamously within the last year, the so-called --
SANCHEZ: Hold on, could you do me a favor and answer my question.
HAYWORTH: You really don't want me to answer, do you?
SANCHEZ: No I do. Maybe I'll restate it.
HAYWORTH: You would rather be an advocate and debate. What's your point, Rick. The floor is yours, it's your program. Go ahead.
SANCHEZ: Are you ready? Do you know of any benefits that have been provided to Americans by illegal immigrants? Any?
HAYWORTH: A steady stream of cheap labor for the right and in some cases cheap votes for the left.
SANCHEZ: Do you know that there are $7 billion that is subsidized into your Social Security that someday you may be able to retire on that was taken off the backs of illegal aliens who will never recover those that they paid into? A study in "The New York Times."
HAYWORTH: That's precisely the point, isn't it? At once you're asking us to protect a portion of society that can become a permanent underclass. And in reference to the $7 billion, how does that square with $2.6 trillion in -- SANCHEZ: Drats. I was so enjoying that conversation. It's one of the few times when you're actually going to have a respectable discussion with someone who you don't agree with intellectually, although you are certainly heartened by the opportunity to debate issue, and that's how we all learn.
He says things that might be different from my perspective, I say things that might be different from his perspective. And in the end, he may be able to learn from something I say, and I may be able to learn by something he said.
But in television, we have these things called satellites, and when the satellite goes out, we can't continue talking. I'll tell you what, I hoped he enjoyed that as much as I did.
So hopefully tonight at 8:00, I'm going to try to get J.D. Hayworth back, and we can continue our argument/interview. And I very much appreciate him coming on and talking to us.
And again, we just lost the satellite in that interview. That means neither he nor I had anything to do with that, all right? We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Look who's here it? It's Brooke Baldwin. Everyone is tweeting. They said, did you do that on purpose?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: I know. The satellite, it's like Murphy's law.
SANCHEZ: Just when the interview starts to get good. My wife sometimes hates it because when you listen to the radio and people are arguing -- I said because I'm a man.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: Because you're a man. Well, hopefully I'm not going to go anywhere.
Topic number one, there was a whole lot of talk even ahead of his visit on "The View," talking about the president, should he do it, should he not do it. He did it. He sat down with the ladies. The chatty, sometimes they're catty ladies on daytime talk show.
At first they talked pretty much about what you though. I listened just about the entire hour and they talked about his family, the economy, both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and even talked racism in America. And he was asked about Shirley Sherrod.
This, but then only on "The View," co-host Joy Behar decided to quiz the president -- there he is walking out -- quiz the president on something much more pressing, pop culture. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": Do you know that Lindsay Lohan is in jail?
BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I actually know that, yes.
BEHAR: You knew that? OK. Does Mel Gibson need anger management?
OBAMA: I -- I -- I --
(LAUGHTER)
Let me answer that Afghanistan question. I haven't -- I haven't seen a Mel Gibson movie in a while.
BEHAR: Well, the tapes -- they're better than any movie he ever made.
Should Snooki run as mayor of Wasilla?
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: I've got to admit, I don't know who Snooki is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, sure, he doesn't.
BALDWIN: Who just recently learned who Snooki is? Rick Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: Me. Do you know how I know her? "Saturday Night Live." I didn't know the real Snooki, I knew the guy who pretends to be Snooki on "Saturday Night Live."
BALDWIN: I have a little treat for you, Mr. Sanchez. Coming up at the 4:00 hour, I have four words for you -- "Jersey Shore" nickname generator. We'll go there in an hour.
Number two on my list, and a lot of people have been tweeting me on this. This is all over the Internet, the 40-year-old publication, "Essence" magazine celebrates African-American women.
Well, it's really making news out of the hiring of a white fashion editor. Her name is Ellianna Placas. She's a former fashion editor for some huge places, "House Beautiful," Oprah's "O" magazine. And this move, among some circles, sparking major outrage after the former fashion editor at "Essence" first posted about it on Facebook, of course.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAELA ANGELA DAVIS, FORMER FASHION EDITOR, "ESSENCE" MAGAZINE: I don't know of any women's magazine that says they're a white fashion magazine. "Vogue" does not say that. They say they're there for luxury and elitism or a class.
"Essence" is the one magazine in that kiosk that puts race in their brand. They say this is the place for African-American women, the place where black women come first. So black is in their brand DNA. "Mary Claire," oh, glamour, we can go on and on and on. They don't say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So the editor in chief of "Essence," coming forward, of course, defending her hiring decision. I want to read to you what she's saying.
She says "I got to see firsthand her creativity, her vision, the positive reader response to her work and her enthusiasm and respect for the audience and our brand.
This decision in no way diminishes my commitment to black women, our issues, our fight." "Essence" also is published by TIME inc. a unit of CNN's parent company, Time Warner. But a lot of cries because a lot of people are saying, hey, the fashion industry, there's a lack of diversity, lack of African-American folks driving the industry. And so people are saying hey, why do we need this white fashion director? It's both sides.
SANCHEZ: It's a hell of a question.
BALDWIN: A lot of people are talking about this today.
SANCHEZ: So we'll see you again at 4:00?
BALDWIN: I've got fun stuff at 4:00.
SANCHEZ: More about Snooki?
BALDWIN: More about Snooki and a little extra cooking up.
SANCHEZ: A little something extra.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Before we do anything else, yes, we've got tons of tweets on you on my discussion a little while ago with J.D. Hayworth in Arizona, and we will do everything we can to try to continue that interview tonight at 8:00. We are calling his people, and his people are calling my people, as they say.
In the meantime, I want you to look at the twitter board. Let's go to it, if we can, Robert. This is governor brewer. She's sounding off on what happened yesterday and parts of today. "Remember November. Join me in supporting those who are not afraid to stand with Arizona."
And we talked to one of those yesterday. In fact, here's one of them now, David Vitter. "The choice is clear. I support Arizona law, voted to prevent Louisiana law enforcement from arresting or detaining illegals like Arizona's law." There is David Vitter, Republican, very conservative, Louisiana.
All right, when we come back, we're going to bring you up to date on what's going on with everything in Arizona, and we're also going to bring in the very latest on what's coming out of Washington regarding Charlie Rangel.
For those of you who may just now be getting home from work, Charlie Rangel is back in the news. We'll tell you what's new. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There is an historical perspective I want to share with you now about what's going on in Arizona and all the repercussions that come with it.
Some Americans are watching this and they are harkening back to their own past. For some of these Americans who are watching this, it is bringing back some difficult memories for them of this country.
This is a story of Asian-Americans and their reaction to what is now happening in Arizona and possibly elsewhere. I want you to listen now to what some are telling CNN's Sandra Endo and how they are fighting this new law.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the hot spot, the U.S. border in Nogales, Arizona, where border patrol says more and more Asians are illegally trying to get into the country. They are paying smugglers up to 70 grand per person for the long risky pathway into America, compared to the couple thousand dollars officials say Latinos pay for the short journey.
THOMAS W. RUDD, U.S. BORDER PATROL: They are trying to exploit the areas where we might not have the technology, we might not have the infrastructure, and we might not have the personnel.
ENDO (on camera): Just look at the terrain. These valleys make it easier for illegal immigrants to hide while they are on the run and harder for border patrol to catch them. That's why the Nogales border is a prime target, especially for Asian immigrants who want a tried and true method into the states.
RUDD: They are doing anything and everything they can to come across, but that's what makes us better. We have to stay a step ahead.
ENDO: Using fencing, hidden sensors, and cameras. At the border it's a game of cat and mouse. Despite a judge blocking the controversial provisions in the state's immigration law, the legal wrangling continues, and fear of being considered illegal permeates through Asian American communities.
Phoenix resident Jim Shee who is half Chinese and half Spanish says he is already feeling targeted. In April the 70-year-old was stopped twice by Phoenix cops, once because an officer told him he looks suspicious.
ENDO (on camera): Do you feel that's because of the new law that was passed?
JIM SHEE, PHOENIX RESIDENT: I'm certain it was.
ENDO: What went through your mind when he asked you for your papers? What did you think that meant?
JIM SHEE: I could have been an illegal person or an undocumented person.
ENDO (voice-over): He is fighting back. He joined an Asian American group as a plaintiff in a lawsuit against Arizona's law enforcement. While the law would mostly affect Latino immigrants, Homeland Security figures show there are roughly 1 million illegal Asians currently in the United States, many coming through the southern border.
Jim Shee and his wife Marion were both born and raised in Arizona but now feel paranoid in their home state. Marion is Japanese- American and became quite familiar with discrimination during World War II.
MARIAN SHEE, PHOENIX RESIDENT: Arizona may be targeted specifically more against Mexicans and Mexican-Americans. The Asian- Americans are also going to get caught into the situation.
ENDO: In Tucson, Chinese community advocate Peter Chan says how the law read before, simply driving around would put them at risk of being racially profiled.
PETER CHAN, CHINESE COMMUNITY ADVOCATE: According to the new interpretation, you know, driver's license might not be enough to prove that you have a legal, you know, right to stay in this country.
ENDO: That's why people like Miss Lee say they have to be prepared. A few years ago she came to the states illegally, but now she's documented. Still, she says, she's afraid. She barely speaks any English, and her face, well, looks foreign to many.
ENDO (on camera): So this is what you carry with you all the time now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ENDO: "I want to make sure I have it," she says. "I have no choice."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And Sandra joins us now live. What a fascinating story. It almost sounds, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like some of these folks are saying, well, it's -- the Hispanics are the targets now, but what's to say tomorrow they may not turn on us Asians, so we're a little nervous about that? ENDO: Absolutely, Rick. If I could just tell you a personal story, aside from our roles as journalists, my own grandfather George was interned during World War II in California. He was told to take one suitcase. He had to leave behind his house, his business, all his possessions.
And he was a U.S. citizen, so this was his own country rounding up U.S. citizens of Japanese descent because there was fear out there and distrust because the war against Japan.
So clearly with this story covering a lot of Asian communities here in Arizona in this immigration story, a lot of those feelings, those bitter memories, and the idea of being able to round up an immigrant community, especially because they look different and sound different, is very scary to so many people out there and so many communities of color, Rick.
SANCHEZ: That's a hell of a story. Sandra, thanks so much. An interesting report. Thanks for making us aware of what some Americans are feeling right now because of these stories we've been talking about.
We'll be right back.
