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Rick's List

Congress Investigates Charlie Rangel; Arlington Rage; Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants; Phoenix, AZ Mayor Phil Gordon Weighs in on Immigration Debate

Aired July 29, 2010 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Hey. We have got a little bit of breaking news. This is as we get ready to go into this next hour.

By the way, welcome, one and all. I'm Rick Sanchez. Here we go with RICK'S LIST once again.

But I just got word that Arizona Governor Jan Brewer will appeal. In fact, she's asking the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals for an expedited appeal. That is part of the court that's been making this ruling. It goes back to them now.

I think, as -- as our own legal expert Jeffrey Toobin explained it yesterday, this will be a three-judge panel now to look and consider this decision to see if it's reversible or reconsiderable in any way.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: So, that's the very latest. Yes, there is an appeal. Yes, Jan Brewer is taking it to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in an expedited fashion. That word is important in this case.

As we get more information out of the courts as to whether or not they will accept it or not, we will share that information with you.

As we move forward, I do want to sell you something else, especially with all the news that is coming out of this show about Afghanistan. I'm honored to report that we are the news of record for American Forces Network at this hour, and we have right now troops from all over the world watching this newscast.

We love you, guys, and we're glad you're there.

Here's the national conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making your LIST today.

Arizona can't do what it wanted on immigration. So what now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not just about Arizona and it's not just about Mexican-Americans. This is about Hondurans. This is about Argentines. This is about Puerto Ricans. SANCHEZ: If they won, why are these activists still protesting?

Outrage at Arlington National Cemetery.

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: I have learned of shocking stories about Arlington, bodies accidentally buried in the same graves, unmarked and mismarked graves.

SANCHEZ: Grave errors that dishonor the dead and disgust the living.

An Ethics Committee spells it out for Congressman Charlie Rangel. Will he fight back or quit?

REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: I survived a Chinese attack in North Korea -- having survived that, that I haven't had a bad day since. Today, I have to reassess that statement.

SANCHEZ: Can you guess what list he's on?

The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's landed on the list you don't want to be on? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list.

Pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Hey. Welcome back.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: I'm Rick Sanchez.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Here we go. Man, we have got a lot of news on this day. Glad we can take you through it. Let's try and pick up the pace now for those of you just now checking in.

We have been keeping an eye on the wave of protests in Phoenix over what's left of Arizona's immigration law, although the people that we have talked to say, look, we're not protesting the fact that this law didn't go into effect today or even what's left of the law.

What we're protesting is the current history that Arizona has in the past year or so with many of the laws that they have passed. That's what they say. Protesters showed up all over the country -- from all over the country, I should say.

We understand that even more are on their way. So far, things have been peaceful. I mean, there have been confrontations with police, but there have been peaceful arrests, if you can put those two words together.

(LAUGHTER) SANCHEZ: Actually, they have been. The protesters just sat there with their hands up. The police came, asked them questions, and then walked them away.

Eleven buses from Los Angeles, we understand, are now on their way to Phoenix filled with more protesters. It's becoming a -- a meeting place of sorts. Police there are saying they want to make sure that these protests over immigration are peaceful, and a lot of folks in Arizona are saying they have a serious problem with some of these folks who are coming to their state to protest.

Now, we brought you part of that standoff outside Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office in Phoenix. He has conducted the latest of his controversial crime sweeps today as well. This is sweep number 17.

The Justice Department is saying to Joe Arpaio, we don't want you to do this. There's a lawsuit involved. Some protesters have blocked the street. They were handcuffed one at a time and then led away.

Now, I want to show you something because so many of you have been tweeting that you want to see a part of this once again. The question on the immigration debate has a lot to do with what is -- what are both sides of this story, because we often hear just one, let's get rid of all the illegal immigrants, but there's question of taxes. There's a question of whether or not they speak Spanish -- speak English. There's a question of assimilation. There's a question of whether they contribute or don't contribute, much of which is always glossed over, especially by those who use this message, this immigration message, for political purposes.

I asked one of my guests just a little while ago, J.D. Hayworth -- I said, is that what you're doing? And we showed some of his ads, because he's trying to take Senator John McCain's seat to get to the Senate representing Arizona. And it seems like his campaign message is very strident, one very much focused on illegal immigration.

So, he and I started to exchange some words during our interview/debate. And then, suddenly, it went out. And everybody has been saying, what happened? That was a little mysterious.

It happened because the satellite went out, and that's it. But, nonetheless, I want to show you some of that once again. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: That ad could have run in anytime in our history and all you had to do was take out the picture of the Mexicans and replace them with pictures of Germans or Jews or Irish or Italians. Getting Americans --

J.D. HAYWORTH (R), ARIZONA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: No, sir. I fundamentally disagree with the premise of what you're saying.

SANCHEZ: Hold on. Getting some Americans to turn on the latest immigrant group to get off the boat doesn't exactly require a lot of intellectual prowess.

HAYWORTH: Rick, let's be honest here.

SANCHEZ: Aren't you picking the low-lying fruit here?

HAYWORTH: No, Rick. Rick, you are absolutely wrong. And let me explain why. Throughout what you were mentioning, the litany of people coming to the country, they did so orderly. Many of them through a place called Ellis Island.

SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: No, I'm going to stop you right there. These people, did they -- when they were in Ireland, let's say, or they were in Germany, did they petition the United States for permission to come to the United States? Or did they just get on a boat and show up?

HAYWORTH: Well, I know they came to a port of entry where they made application to come to the United States. And as you may recall from history, Rick, many of them were turned down, but they did so in an orderly --

SANCHEZ: No, no less than one-half of one percent were turned down, and that's because they have communicable diseases.

When did we even start taking account? When did immigration even become illegal, because prior to that, there was no such thing as legal immigration? Do you happen to know that?

HAYWORTH: Rick, I'm not here to be quizzed on United States history. What I recognize is what is past is prologue, and in the immediate past --

SANCHEZ: But you should know this.

HAYWORTH: The last quarter century precisely -- Rick, now, I didn't come here to play "gotcha." I came to answer questions about the here and now.

And the here and now in Arizona, if my opponent John McCain is reelected and continues with his amnesty plans, according the Heritage Foundation, $2.6 trillion in Social Security and Medicare retirement benefits to illegals granted amnesty, granted citizenship, I think that's a significant concern.

SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question.

HAYWORTH: We can quibble about history, or we can talk about the here and now.

SANCHEZ: Let's leave history alone. Do you know anything about the arguments coming from the other side regarding illegal immigrants? Because I mean, you make --

HAYWORTH: Sure, I hear their arguments all the time.

SANCHEZ: Do you think they make any contributions to life in America?

HAYWORTH: Well, I think that legal immigrants do --

SANCHEZ: No, illegal, illegal, illegal.

HAYWORTH: No, I think if we embrace, Rick, which you seem willing to do, embrace the myth of the "noble migrant," to use the term, fails to take into account those who have come here. For example, infamously within the last year, the so-called --

SANCHEZ: Hold on, could you do me a favor and answer my question.

HAYWORTH: You really don't want me to answer, do you?

SANCHEZ: No I do. Maybe I will restate it.

HAYWORTH: You would rather be an advocate and debate. What's your point, Rick. The floor is yours, it's your program. Go ahead.

SANCHEZ: Are you ready? Do you know of any benefits that have been provided to Americans by illegal immigrants? Any?

HAYWORTH: A steady stream of cheap labor for the right and in some cases cheap votes for the left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: There's more.

So, what does the mayor of Phoenix, by the way, have to say about all of this? After all, he's at the very heart of this firestorm. Mayor Phil Gordon is going to join me in just a little bit, and I'm going to try and ask him some of the very tough questions that we usually ask guests who come on RICK'S LIST. That's usually what makes better TV and conversation, we think.

You tell us.

Also, consider these questions. How much blood should be spilled in Afghanistan? How many more billions should be spent on that war? And how long should we stay there? Wait until you hear one particular suggestion that has to do with cost, how much it costs to run schools vis-a-vis what it costs to keep soldiers there. Think about that for a minute, because we're going to be right back. This is RICK'S LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: The new "TIME" magazine cover is controversial and shocking. We warn you, it may be difficult for some of you to watch this, to look at this, but I guarantee you this. It's almost as impossible to see as it is to turn away from it. This is a photo of a woman whose nose and ears were cut off by the Taliban -- You see it right there? -- cut off as punishment for fleeing an abusive husband and family, a family that she was sold to at the age of 10.

"TIME" magazine says that they are not advocating staying or leaving in Afghanistan, that they are only giving us something to add to the conversation.

OK, "TIME" magazine, we take the bait. Should human rights issues be a consideration for whether the U.S. stays in a war for decades or pulls out because it's costing too much in U.S. treasure, blood and money?

Well, we're going to let you share -- we're going to share with you the White House's position on this, first and foremost. I want you to note right here that "TIME" magazine, like CNN, is owned by Time Warner.

All right. Here -- here's the quote by Vice President Joe Biden stating the White House's position on this. You ready? I think we can take it full. Can we?

Quote: "We're in Afghanistan for one express purpose, al Qaeda, the threat to the United States. We are not there to nation-build. We're not out there deciding we're going to turn this into a Jeffersonian democracy and build that country."

Joining me now from New York is Michael Elliott. He is the deputy manager -- managing editor of Time international.

Thanks so much, Michael, for being with us.

MICHAEL ELLIOTT, INTERNATIONAL EDITOR, "TIME": Good to see you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: I bet this must have been a tough decision. I mean, it's -- it's -- it's an interesting cover. That's a beautiful woman with that deformity that just makes you stare at it.

It was a very tough decision, Rick.

And Rick Stengel, the managing editor of -- of "TIME" magazine, has what we call a pub letter, a letter to our readers in the magazine, explaining the -- the process that we went through in deciding whether to put this photograph on the cover.

I think you described it perfectly in your lead-in, incidentally. It's -- it's one of those images that you don't want to look at and that you can't look away from.

SANCHEZ: Hmm.

ELLIOTT: It's extraordinarily powerful. This is -- this is obviously a very beautiful young woman --

SANCHEZ: Yes.

ELLIOTT: -- who carries herself, I think, with incredible dignity, I think -- I think one should say.

(CROSSTALK)

ELLIOTT: It is obviously a disturbing image.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Michael, I have got to ask you, though, before -- aside from the cover, what -- I think you guys are trying to send a message here. What's the message?

ELLIOTT: I think the message that we're trying to send is that, as one has a national and, for that matter, international conversation about Afghanistan, there are a lot of factors that have to -- that have to come into play.

I respect what the vice president said in that clip that you just read out. Other people would say that, of course, that one of the ways in which we can defeat terrorists in Afghanistan, that we can stop Afghanistan being a safe haven for terrorism is by creating a society there in which human rights are -- are respected, in which government looks after the people, in which education can be funded and so on, and that the role of women in Afghanistan is part of that process.

SANCHEZ: Of course -- of course --

(CROSSTALK)

ELLIOTT: So, I --

(CROSSTALK)

ELLIOTT: What -- what -- what we're trying -- yes, go ahead, Rick. Sorry.

SANCHEZ: I'm sorry. I mean, I -- if we did that, Michael -- and you know this. Look, you're a journalist. You're a smart guy. You have thought through this stuff.

And for the vice president to say that we're just there to take on al Qaeda, it sure doesn't look that way, because the last time I checked, there's really not that many al Qaeda guys left in Afghanistan. They are mostly Taliban. But we will leave that alone.

If the premise is that the United States of America needs to go around helping people who need help like this, we could start on the Ivory Coast, go all the way up through the coast of Africa --

ELLIOTT: Sure.

(CROSSTALK) SANCHEZ: We could go to parts of India. We can go to Pakistan. We can go to Asia. We can go to the Middle East. We would never be done helping countries that have sons -- SOBs picking on their people and killing them, like they did to the women in -- in Afghanistan.

You know that, though, right?

ELLIOTT: Absolutely right. And that's why -- that's why these -- these topics and these issues are ones that one should have conversations about around the dinner table nationally and internationally.

But I think just because you can't do good everywhere -- I'm quoting -- quoting Madeleine Albright here -- you shouldn't say that you can't do good anywhere.

And I think one of the things that comes through in Aryn Baker's incredible story is how much progress women have made in Afghanistan since 2001. It may have been a side effect, it may honestly have been a side effect of the intervention that the U.S. and its allies made in 2001, but, nonetheless, it is something that I think we can be proud of.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

ELLIOTT: And, as a consequence -- and, as a consequence --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But do we stay another decade? But do we stay another decade?

ELLIOTT: Well --

SANCHEZ: I mean, do we stay another decade to continue doing for them what we haven't really done for anybody else in the world, or do we say, look, we gave you nine good years; we have got to go?

(CROSSTALK)

ELLIOTT: I don't think it -- I don't think it's for you or me to say.

SANCHEZ: Of course not.

ELLIOTT: I think -- I think our job as -- I think our job as journalists is to put in front of viewers and readers as many different factors that go into trying to make these very, very difficult decisions as we possibly can.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

ELLIOTT: And what we tried to do this week was to place the role of Afghan women -- women in the forefront and say, this is one of those factors. SANCHEZ: By golly, that was such a good answer. No wonder you are you're paid the big bucks. Well said. Gives Americans something to think about before they go to bed at night as they look at that picture. And you're absolutely right. And I don't think -- I think that's undeniable.

Michael Elliott, thanks for being with us, sir. Good interview. Enjoyed the conversation.

ELLIOTT: You bet, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was on -- I was on "The View" yesterday and --

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: -- somebody asked me who -- who Snooki was. I say, I don't know who Snooki is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: What is this?

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: What is with this Snooki stuff? I mean, it's like the whole country, Craig, has gone like Snooki-crazy. The president says he doesn't know who Snooki is. Snooki here. Snooki there. Snooki this. Snooki that.

We found some video that tells a little different story. President Obama's "Jersey Shore" dilemma, that's coming up in just a little bit.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Also, one week after the Shirley Sherrod firestorm made headlines, there's an explosive new development on this. We're going to tell you how the former government worker is now threatening the blogger who first posted the edited version of her speech, yes, Breitbart being sued, allegedly.

Did you hear about this, by the way? It's next on the LIST. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Wow. I'm -- I was just told as I was looking at my own Twitter board that folks in the control room were noticing the same thing. We are getting a ton of reaction on that story we did just a little while ago on the "TIME" magazine cover.

Before we do anything else, hey, Rog, before you take that, show them the cover again. OK. Show them the cover. See that? That's a woman in Afghanistan. You know what happens to women in Afghanistan if they don't toe the line, right? Well, she had her nose and her ears cut off. That's the story "TIME" magazine is trying to make as they say, does that mean we need to stay there longer? Do we cut? Do we go? Do we stay?

I mean, look, this is an American conversation. Now, here's what you're saying. Let's go. Get through a bunch of these.

"This is absolutely disgusting. How can we as humans condone this? Something must be done. It's 2010, for God's sake."

Go to the next one. The next one says: "This is repulsive and at the same time very realistic. U.S. compromise to leave can't be on account of women's right."

Next one says: "Wow. I don't like that cover at all. We should not leave until we get the job done."

One more: "I don't think we -- the cover goes too far. Sometimes, you need to show the brutal truth so that -- so that people can understand."

All right, come back to me, Rog. This is the roundup list. This is where we gather some of the biggest stories of the day and make a list out of them. It's one of our favorite parts of the show as well. Are you ready?

Number one: A couple of things floated away from the International Space Station the other day. NASA officials say that happens from time to time, especially during space walks. A sigh of relief today about another hunk of space junk. NASA says a piece of debris they were tracking close to the space station no longer poses a threat to the crew on board. You may not know this, but there's more than half-a-million chunks of manmade junk that is orbiting the planet.

Here's number two. Shirley Sherrod says she will sue the man whose blog entry got her fired from her Agriculture Department job. Andrew Breitbart posted that edited video of a Sherrod speech where she appeared to be admitting to an act of discrimination. The clip was clearly out of context. Sherrod says Breitbart has not apologized, and she wouldn't accept it now anyway.

Protesters are lining up and speaking out in Arizona, and some are being arrested. Some are saying they want to be arrested. The judge ruled on Arizona's immigration law yesterday, but the noise is escalating today.

We're going to talk to Mayor Phil Gordon of Phoenix about what's going on, as 11 more buses filled with people, protesters, heads from L.A. to his city.

The LIST scrolls on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Here's an -- this is an important story I want to bring to your attention, one of America's hallowed places, Arlington National Cemetery, the prestigious resting place of the country's war dead, becoming a symbol of national shame today.

Congressional leaders tried to find out today how the Army bungled its handling of the burial site, after an Army report showed gross mismanagement of the sprawling cemetery.

I want you to listen now to members of the Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Subcommittee. This is at today's hearing. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCASKILL: As a former state auditor, no one has performed any audit whatsoever. And now we know that the problems with the graves at Arlington may be far more extensive than previously acknowledged.

At a conservative estimate, 4,900 to 6,600 graves may be unmarked, improperly marked or mislabeled on the cemetery's map.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: Tragically, we now know that this most basic of expectations was neglected. Gross mismanagement of these sanctified grounds has tarnished the sacred trust and shaken many military families.

SEN. JON TESTER (D), MONTANA: This is not only totally unacceptable. It is a black eye that, quite frankly, needs to be dealt with in a way to make things right as soon as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: All right. I want you to take a look at something. This is a headstone at the cemetery. Instead of gracing the burial plot of a service man or woman who sacrificed their life in service to their country, it's lying in a riverbed.

It's one of several. It's stuff like this that -- which has led to some allegations of mismanagement at the cemetery and today's tough questioning at this hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SCOTT BROWN (R), MASSACHUSETTS: How do you know the remains are the accurate remains of -- how did you match that up?

(CROSSTALK)

JOHN METZLER, FORMER SUPERINTENDENT, ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY: We matched them up with the records of internment and with the grave survey cards.

BROWN: Are you -- you're still dealing with -- my understanding is you're still dealing with paper cards. Is that right?

METZLER: We are still dealing with paper cards, two sets of cards, an alphabetical set of cards and a numerical set of cards.

BROWN: So, let me get this straight. It's 2010, and you guys -- you know, my Chair, may I take this for a minute, Madam Chair and just show?

You have this amazing piece of technology right here? You know, everyone, this amazing piece of technology right here. We have got --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me make sure that everyone knows that this is the I.G. report that I'm reading, not --

BROWN: Yes. No, no, I know.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: I know -- I know that --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hearing materials.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not something other than hearing materials.

BROWN: I know that. We have got cell phones. We have got iPhones. We have got this and that. And you guys are still dealing in cards.

I find that just -- I -- I just can't my hand around that. How do you -- how do you --

(CROSSTALK)

METZLER: As frustrated you are, sir, with this, you can only imagine our frustration at the cemetery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Despite being given millions of dollars to update Arlington's record-keeping system, much hasn't changed in decades. The Army secretary, John McHugh, says one possible solution is a modern computer system of some type.

Now,, it's important to say this as well as we follow this story, that even though the Army's report showed troubling errors, Army Inspector General Steve Whitcomb says they have found no evidence of wrongdoing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: I survived a Chinese attack in North Korea. Having survived that, I haven't had a bad day since. Today I have to reassess that. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: "Today I have to reassess that." He seems to be intimating this is one of the worst days of his life, right? Why? Charlie Rangel's days as one of the Hill's top Democrats could be coming to an end unless he can pull off a deal or survive this hearing somehow, this ethics hearing, but the clock is ticking.

That's ahead. There is a lot of news on that story, by the way. We've got an update.

And for the criminal caught without a mask, give underwear a try. That's right, underwear. It's working for one person.

We'll be right back with "Fotos."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Look, if every single time that a Republican who is earnest like George W. Bush or John McCain or President Barack Obama attempts to initiate or pass some kind of comprehensive immigration reform in this country, somebody stands up and starts screaming amnesty. The fact is, it's just never going to happen. It's almost impossible to get comprehensive immigration reform under those conditions.

So that's just the facts, folks. That's where we are. Let's not kid ourselves, all right?

So the question then is: Who out there, Democrat, Republican, whatever, is bold enough to say no, somehow we have to come together and find some kind of truce, some kind of compromise?

Well, interestingly enough, the person yesterday who seemed willing to do that is Republican Congressman Darrell Issa of California. He came on this show yesterday and I asked him that question. I mean, and he agreed.

I said, look, as long is out there saying no, as soon as you decide that you're going to let somebody who has ever come into this country illegally stay in the United States or have a path to residency, than forget it, no deal. So we never have a deal, and then Arizona does what it does and the United States is basically back in the same old quagmire.

But Issa, yesterday on this show, made news. He said he's willing to meet the president halfway on creating some kind of worker -- work permit program for illegal immigrants, including some of those who are already here, so that they may eventually be able to stay.

After that -- in fact, here, let me let you listen to that, and then I want to bring in Ed Henry, who was at the White House talking to the president today, or the president's folks about what Darrell Issa said.

Here's Issa. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: I believe that many of us can stand up. Obviously we've said for a long time we don't want to have the amnesty in the sense that people get to be permanent residents and citizens simply because they were already here illegally.

SANCHEZ: I get that.

ISSA: But when it comes to people doing jobs that are available, doing them honestly, doing them above board, the fact is the vast majority of the people that we don't even know are here illegally are doing just that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: And then he goes on to say -- that's not the exact right cut, but then he goes on to say yes, "Even if it involves people who are already here having a path to eventual residency, not all of them, but those of them who are selected who have been here for a certain amount of time, and I'm willing to present that to the White House and meet them halfway on this."

So, look, it's not huge, not earth-shattering, but in this argument it's actually pretty big. It's a beginning, so to speak, of a conversation that usually ends up with an argument and both sides walk away.

So, Ed Henry joins us now. He took what Issa said and asked for reaction from the folks running our country at the White House.

And I'm curious to know what they had to say, Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, it's interesting. I asked Robert Gibbs about it just a few moments ago in the White House briefing room, and the context here, of course, is that Darrell Issa is a Republican who is going after this administration, frankly, practically every day of the week. He's really been trying to launch investigations and calling for subpoenas, various investigations whether it's Shirley Sherrod or anything else. So this is not someone usually working with this administration.

So I asked Robert Gibbs, "Do you think he's sincere in saying that he's ready to reach across the aisle, and is the president going to listen to Republicans like Darrell Issa and try to build a coalition here?"

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It is the president's sincere hope that out of this decision and out of the understandable frustration of those that are dealing with this problem locally each and every day, that we can make real progress on dealing with this tough issue. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: But Gibbs did also say that he -- he acknowledged really what's the obvious in Washington right now, which is that such a deal is not going to get done in the next three months before a very contentious election. But he's holding out hope that after the election, maybe in early 2011, both sides can sit down.

I guess hope springs eternal right now, because as you're seeing play out in Arizona, without a national solution this is going to continue in many states across the country. And so he's acknowledging in the short term there's not going to be a deal, but he thinks if Darrell Issa and other Republicans are sincere about working with the president, they're ready to go -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: But you know what? I mean, you've got to give guys like Issa credit, because it's an olive branch of sorts. It's not easy to be a Republican in the United States today and say anything that comes eerily close to a defense of illegal immigrants. As a matter of fact, it's the fastest way to get yourself out of office and it's a guaranteed way to get Rush Limbaugh and everybody on the right screaming your name a million times and telling people what a rotten scoundrel you are.

Right?

HENRY: Also pretty hard for any rank and file Republican to stand up and say they support an Obama policy, because the reality, the political reality, is that Republican leaders in the House and Senate discourage rank and file like Darrell Issa from working with this White House. It's something Robert Gibbs complains about all the time, and they insist that's why health care was done with just Democrat votes, for the most part, et cetera.

Now, this may be one issue where we'll see the divide bridge. We'll see, obviously.

SANCHEZ: Ed, that's what I was intimating, the fact that if the White House sees a little tiny bit of an opening, you would think they would pick up the phone and say, guys, whatever we can do, if we can find some common ground on this, let's do this, but as you said, it's tough to do.

Ed Henry, hey, thanks for following up on that.

HENRY: Not going to happen before November, but maybe after, absolutely.

SANCHEZ: Yes, exactly. A little too treacherous ground prior to that.

The mayor of Phoenix is standing by.

Phil Gordon, sorry I'm keeping you. We didn't expect to be doing that.

You good? You there? You ready to go?

MAYOR PHIL GORDON (D), PHOENIX: Ready to go.

SANCHEZ: All right. Just say one more minute. We're going to take a break. We'll be right back with you.

GORDON: OK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Boy, talk about being in the crosshairs. The laser- like focus of the entire nation today is on Phoenix, Arizona.

Why? Well, because a judge has decided that this very stringent Arizona law, as it was described, would not go into effect today. Nonetheless, people have been coming from all over the country to protest in Phoenix against Arizona's laws, this law that didn't go into effect, the other laws that they have passed in the past.

We understand 11 more busloads of protesters are headed to Phoenix, Arizona, as we speak right now, so let's just say Arizona is the focus of the nation's attention. It may not be the type of attention it wants. Who knows? Maybe some there want this type of attention.

Let's ask one of those. Phil Gordon is the mayor of Phoenix. It's his city where all this is happening right now.

I don't know where to start. What do you make of all of this? What's your position -- well, just tell us what it's like to be the mayor of Phoenix on a day like today.

GORDON: Well, it's certainly been busy. I think I was up at 3:00 internationally in the morning, and we're running from yesterday through today and tomorrow, really just, A, making sure the community and everyone that's here now stays safe. And Phoenix has that history. Our police and fire are the best, and we're working on that.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

GORDON: I wish on a personal level that a lot of people that are coming now would have come before this law passed so that we could not have it go into effect, but as you said minutes ago, this isn't just about Phoenix or Arizona, this is about our nation.

And the true, true and only, which I've been saying for months, fix to the immigration issue and security issue for our border lies in Washington, D.C., and we've got to keep that focus. And it will happen. Unfortunately, not until after the elections, but, Rick, it's going to happen.

SANCHEZ: But hold on. You've got a guy running there for Senate, J.D. Hayworth, who I had a chance to talk to just a little while ago. You know, respectable guy, has very strong opinions. But every other word that comes out of his mouth is "amnesty," "amnesty," "amnesty." And as long as you've got people screaming amnesty, it's going to be difficult for anything to be done by Washington because it's going to be fought down by the right.

I mean, that's a fact.

GORDON: Well, first, let me say, you know, whether Mr. Hayworth is respectable or not, you know, I think the nation has been judging that. And he is desperate, as is the sheriff and Senator Pearce, to get on the media, just to be on the media every time.

But second of all, you know, immigration, which has always been an historical issue, if we just go back a few years, it was a Republican issue. First for Florida, they would allow individuals to come from Cuba. Then under the Bush administration, a starter program that recognizes that workers contribute both to the economy and then their children, whether south of the border or from Europe, be to the education brain trust.

And I think what's it's going to take and what it has taken is courage for some people to stand up. And more and more people are doing that and realizing we don't want Washington, we don't want state governments, and we don't even want city governments now that are frozen (INAUDIBLE).

SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question, because I'm wondering sometimes when I listen to some of these folks who are so adamantly against illegal immigrants, but yet any time someone comes up with some kind of compromised proposal, they shoot it down completely.

Do you think there's an ulterior motive for some of these people to not want there to be a solution to this problem? Because if the problem goes away, so does their theme to talk about and so does their fan base.

GORDON: Absolutely. You know, throughout history we've always had wedge issues, and we've always had immigration issues, like any country. But what has happened over the last four or five years for whatever reason, the majority of this country has remained silent as this extreme debate -- and candidly on both sides, but predominantly from the extreme right -- has taken place.

And then there has been consequences to those individuals that stood up a couple of years ago. And now no action has meant really less security for this country and less economic opportunity for everyone, white or black or brown.

SANCHEZ: Interesting.

GORDON: I really --

SANCHEZ: Go ahead. Finish up, and then we're out of time.

GORDON: Yes. I really do believe, you know, first of all, this law, I said four months ago, was destined to be in courts and will stay in courts for years, and other states will have it.

We, I think, are realizing as a country we've got to come together. The representative that you mentioned, I know for a fact with some senators from the Republican side, with some Democrats that I've been working with, with the president, that there will be some movement after the November election, and there will be a comprehensive immigration with guest worker.

And then we'll also get some real economic -- I mean border security that stops terrorists, violent criminals, and also, you know, the flow of labor that is in (ph) control that undermines even the migrant laborer.

SANCHEZ: Mr. Mayor, my thanks to you, sir, for coming on and giving the American people a sense of hope that maybe after November, this thing actually will come to fruition. You're convinced it will. Let's see if it does.

My thanks anyway. Appreciate your time.

Here's what's coming up. A secret Obama -- is President Obama a secret Snooki fan?

I know there's some of you who are actually saying, "Who are you talking about? What is a Snooki?"

It is not a candy bar. I will tell you what it is when we -- what are you laughing at? Why are you laughing?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Can we get a shot of these guys? You have everyone over here giggling over you and Snooki.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: It's a really hard-hitting segment you guys gave me today.

SANCHEZ: It's like a Baby Ruth, right?

BALDWIN: No.

SANCHEZ: All right. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Here we go. Time for the "Trending" segment.

What is trending out there? Snooki. Snooki this. Snooki that. Snooki here. Snooki there.

What's going on?

BALDWIN: OK. So, President Obama was on "The View" today. Been there, done that. We've talked about it.

This actually the nugget from his conversation today with the ladies on the sofa that's actually truly trending on the Internet. It's the president's comment about Snooki.

Who is Snooki, you're asking? She's one of the stars from this huge MTV show "Jersey Shore."

Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": Should Snooki run as mayor of Wasilla?

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: I've got to admit, I don't know who Snooki is.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: You don't?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: That is, like, the sound bite heard round the world today. But wait a second.

We thought -- we did some digging here, big-time digging. We thought the president knew exactly who Snooki was, because digging deep into our archives, we found the president at the Correspondents Dinner, in Washington back in May, he used Snooki, a couple of other members of the "Jersey Shore" crew, to make a joke about provisions in the new health care bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: This next provision is called "The Jersey Shoreup." It reads: "The following individuals shall be excluded from the indoor tanning tax within this bill: Snooki, JWoww, "The Situation" and House Minority Leader John Boehner."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, does he know, does he not know? I mean, obviously --

SANCHEZ: He had no idea what he was talking about there.

BALDWIN: -- somebody probably wrote the joke. Right?

SANCHEZ: He looked like a guy reading somebody else's material.

BALDWIN: But if that's the case, Rick Sanchez -- we're hot on this case -- if so, we find it a tad ironic that John McCain, who was billed as more out of touch, if you will, during the '08 campaign, not only knows who Snooki is, but has a Twitter relationship with her.

Let me show you this tweet.

SANCHEZ: Where are you going?

BALDWIN: I'm walking away from you. I want to show you this tweet --

SANCHEZ: You're crazy.

BALDWIN: -- from John McCain. This is back in June.

He tweeted to Snooki. He says, "Snooki, you are right. I would never tax your tanning bed. President Obama's tax/spend policy is quite the situation, but I do recommend wearing sunscreen."

But we're going beyond that and having a little fun, Sanchez. Real quickly, guess what? Somebody has a little bit of time on their hands.

There is an actual Web site where you can plug in your name.

SANCHEZ: Yes?

BALDWIN: It's the Jersey Shore Nickname Generator. So you know what we had to do.

SANCHEZ: Yes?

BALDWIN: We put in yours.

SANCHEZ: What did you get?

BALDWIN: Rick Sanchez, you've been Jerseyfied as "You're R- Muscle.

SANCHEZ: R-Muscle?

BALDWIN: You are R-Muscle, and I am -- stand by.

SANCHEZ: Yes? Pump Woman.

BALDWIN: Pookie.

SANCHEZ: Pookie? That's your new name.

Well, done, Pookie.

BALDWIN: Pookie and R-Muscle.

SANCHEZ: Thank you.

BALDWIN: R-Muscle, back over to you.

SANCHEZ: Thank you, Pookie. I'm going to read this next story like this.

Are you ready?

BALDWIN: Are you fist-bumping?

SANCHEZ: We'll be right back. R-Muscle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Now for "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On," what many of you look forward to each day.

And obviously there's a New York congressman named Charlie Rangel who has spent the past four decades in Congress, and now the Democrat is in serious danger of losing his job.

Among other things, he is accused of not telling the truth about his income. In one case, not even paying taxes.

Now, keep in mind something. This is one of the most powerful Democrats in all of Congress.

Why? Well, just a few months ago he was the chairman of the committee that makes all the decisions regarding taxes, so you can't be caught doing something having to do with taxes when you're in charge of taxes, not to mention Social Security, health care and Medicare.

Congressman Rangel stepped down from that position. Why? Because he went on trips to the Caribbean using corporate money. That is a no-no.

And now four Republicans and four Democrats in the House will decide his fate. You heard the breaking news during this newscast, during RICK'S LIST. As many as 12 to 15 charges.

Listen to how he described his mood today, the day when the charges against him were being made public and he was learning about it for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANGEL: Sixty years ago I survived a Chinese attack in North Korea. And as a result, I wrote a book that, having survived that, that I hadn't had a bad day since. Today I have to reassess that statement.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: It's a hell of a comment, isn't it? It tells you what you need to know.

We're told Congressman Rangel has a chance to cut a deal and avoid a trial. So far he hasn't taken them up on it.

Here's the kicker: that trial wouldn't come until at least until September. And, of course, Democrats and Republicans will be gearing up for elections, midterms, in November.

So, today, at the very top of "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On," Charlie Rangel.

We'll see how it goes.

That's it for us. That's as it goes.

Suzanne Malveaux joins us now. She's in your "SITUATION ROOM."