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Rick's List
Oil Spill's Environmental Impact; Winning the Iraq War
Aired August 02, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to be talking about the situation with the dispersants, asking real questions, and then the real questions Americans are going to be asking about the situation in Iraq, given what the president said today in this speech about the combat being over. Really? Well, who won?
Let's do the LIST.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Here is what is making the LIST in prime time.
The president says he's keeping his promise on Iraq.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: By August 31, 2010, America's combat mission in Iraq would end.
SANCHEZ: So they are out? When? Did we win, lose, or draw, Mr. President?
Congressman Ed Markey accuses BP of carpet-bombing the Gulf with dangerous chemicals.
REP. EDWARD MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: It was used on an almost daily basis.
But, if that's true, why aren't scores of dead fish washing up on the shores? Oh, and there's a new EPA report.
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: We have to be willing to pay for the government we want, or we have to dramatically cut the government.
Can you keep the Bush tax cuts and cut the deficit? Can you have it both ways? Alan Greenspan says, no, you cannot. And he's not alone.
ANDREW BREITBART, PUBLISHER, BREITBART.COM: I did not ask for Shirley Sherrod to be fired. I did not ask for any repercussions for Shirley Sherrod.
SANCHEZ: From conservative media darling to political outcast -- the Republican Party turns on Andrew Breitbart.
Great whites back in "Jaws" country, just in time for "Shark Week." (END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hi, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. So glad you're here.
All right, let's go through the LIST. During this hour, we're going to be all over that static kill, which is the newest plan to try and seal the leak once and for all in the Gulf of Mexico. There's late word, by the way, tonight that the total amount of oil that leaked from the well is now put at something like 4.9 million barrels.
I know, they are numbers, but they are important numbers, because that's more than 205 million gallons. And then there's the question of dispersants, because we're talking about all that oil, more oil than they originally thought. Well, then there's the dispersant that tried to make the oil go away. And it seems to have done just that.
RICK'S LIST has asked, has the reporting on this been too sky-is- falling in nature, especially from the left? Well, the EPA has just put out a report. I have got it in my hand. This is a report that you're going to need to see.
But we're going to begin the list with a word. You just heard when Jessica was talking about it a little while ago. It's interesting. I really am bilingual. This is a word used by Sarah Palin to describe the president.
You should know, America, this is a word that you should never, ever use in front of my mother or yours or any other respectable person. I'm going to tell you more about this word in a little bit. But if the point is -- if the point that she was trying to make is that this president needs the intestinal fortitude to tackle immigration once and for all before it gets completely out of control, with state after state and politician after politician using it either as a necessary control, understood, or a political wedge issue, then guess what?
There's more of that tonight. You know what happened in Arizona, right? Well, Virginia has now gotten into the immigration mix. And here is what their police there are being told that they can now do. Here is the information from the police on this. Ready?
Virginia law -- quote -- "enforcement officers, including conservation officers, may, like Arizona police officers, inquire into the immigration status of persons that are stopped or arrested."
All right.
Bob Marshall is the Republican Virginia lawmaker who asked the attorney general for that opinion.
Mr. Marshall, thanks for being with us, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
BOB MARSHALL (R), VIRGINIA STATE DELEGATE: Thanks for putting the program on. SANCHEZ: Convince me that this isn't just another political ploy by you to ingratiate yourself to people who can easily be convinced to hate the latest round of immigrants who just got off the boat, just as it has been done by politicians before you for centuries against the Irish, the Italians, the Jews, the Germans, pick your own immigrant group?
Tell me why we should look at you and not see that as your motive?
MARSHALL: Well, I'm not clairvoyant, unlike, perhaps, you are.
SANCHEZ: OK.
MARSHALL: My wife, who is Hispanic, whose dad was raised in Cuba and Spain, agrees with me.
I simply asked the attorney general, what is the status of Virginia law with respect to stopping and making inquiries as to the immigration status? I have here a Congressional Research Service report from 2004 indicating that, in fact, these stops are legal. I simply wanted everybody to understand in Virginia what the rules were. I was the guy who got the immigration commission passed...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes, that's fair.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Please understand. Please understand the motivation of my question, because in many ways...
MARSHALL: Sure.
SANCHEZ: ... isn't this not like picking the low-lying fruit? It's dealing with a problem from the bottom, instead of from the top down.
These immigrants that come to this country, I know it's easy to hate on them. But they are recruited by companies in the United States. They are given paperwork by our federal government so that they can work legally. And then we hear people going after them.
And I'm just wondering -- I'm not making excuses for them -- I'm just wondering, why don't we attack the businesses that let -- that recruit them and bring them here or the government that lets them stay here and work with a tax I.D. number, in the same manner in which we attack them?
MARSHALL: Rick, the we who has to attack the businesses is not the state of Virginia.
The attorney general is February put out an opinion when he was asked by one of my colleagues, can Virginia pass and enforce a law that says it's illegal for a Virginia company to hire an illegal? The attorney general says, no, we have been preempted by the federal government.
So, it's up to them to do that. We need to have secure borders.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MARSHALL: If we don't do that, we're not going to exist as a country. This is a great country.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You are 150 percent right. And it seems like we can't seem to be able to do that. Why is that? What would be your plan for somehow getting this president, or the one before him, or the one after him to get this done?
MARSHALL: Both Democrats and Republicans are responsible, both in the chief executive and in Congress. If I saw what's going on and I lived in a border state, I would say, you know what, federal government, you haven't built a secure fence. The state of Arizona, the state of Mexico or Texas will start doing this.
It's because they are not doing their job there that we have to have these fallback positions here to try to play makeup. There's general consensus that states and local authorities can enforce the criminal law. We can't really, unless Congress says so, enforce the civil positions, although there was an unpublished decision in 2002 from Attorney General Ashcroft that said states have some implied powers to enforce civil positions.
SANCHEZ: You're right.
MARSHALL: But he didn't specify what they were, so we're left up in the air.
SANCHEZ: You're a smart guy and you answer questions very well.
Let me just ask you one final question, because I shake my head when I talk about this, as I think most Americans do. We're all frustrated. And you've got some on the left what are screaming for open borders and you've got some on the right who are being equally unreasonable about coming up with some kind of compromise.
So, let me just ask you, because I know as a Republican the kind of heat that you get. I listen to the talk shows, too. Would you be willing to come up with or share in the process of some type of immigration reform that allows some -- some immigrants who have been here for a long time in good standing, paid their taxes, done all the things that we want them to do, for some of those people, a determined amount, to get a path towards some type of residency? Would you be willing to -- that kind of plan, that type of strategy?
MARSHALL: Well, number one, I'm not a federal legislator.
SANCHEZ: I understand. I understand.
MARSHALL: But this is a moral problem. SANCHEZ: Yes.
MARSHALL: OK. If you have a first-grader and you see them go in line in school and kick everybody out of the water line or the food line, you really don't want to reward that behavior.
This is not an easy problem to deal with. People who are fleeing Mexico have a good reason to come here.
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: What if that behavior had rewarded you? What if as a result of their being here, your Social Security debt went down? Here, you know what? I have got an example for you.
Play that. This is the comptroller of the state of Texas. I asked her, you crunch the numbers. The illegal immigrants that come to this country, do they end up benefiting from us tax-wise or do they take from us? Listen to what she said.
Roll that video, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROLE KEETON STRAYHORN, FORMER TEXAS COMPTROLLER: We looked at taxes paid. We looked at costs. We looked at gross state product.
Bottom line, undocumented immigrants in the state of Texas are adding $17.7 billion to our gross state product. And breaking that down at the state level, on the cost, the services that are paid for -- I'm talking incarceration, education, health care -- we net $428 million at the state level because of the taxes that they're paying in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I mean, it's not to make excuses from them, but I bet you, you would never hear something like that on right-wing radio, the guys who keep guys like you in office.
MARSHALL: Well, when we had the immigration commission, we heard testimony to that effect.
The difficulty is, a lot of this data is soft because no one wants to write on a form, I'm here illegally.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
MARSHALL: Clearly, this cannot be allowed to continue.
SANCHEZ: No, you're right.
MARSHALL: But the first thing we have to do is seal the border. Then let's try to deal with these other problems. SANCHEZ: All right.
MARSHALL: But I don't feel safe at night with the border as porous we have it.
SANCHEZ: We will leave it at that. You have been a wonderful interview. Thanks so much for coming on. I enjoy a good challenging interview like this. I appreciate it.
MARSHALL: Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Take a look at this, folks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was eerie out there. There's nothing alive in that water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Are dispersants really destroying every living creature in the Gulf of Mexico, as we have been heard to believe in some cases? Wait until you hear the new results from this brand-new EPA report that I have been sharing with you.
Also tonight, killers on the loose after busting out of an Arizona prison and they are already on a new crime spree. How did they get out and who are these guys? We are going to show you.
But first let's get back to politics. You know all about red state and blue states, right? We talk about this all the time, what the left likes, what the right likes, et cetera, et cetera. Well, that's shorthand for which parts of the country lean to the left or lean to the right.
Well, on my LIST tonight, Gallup has a new poll out showing the very reddest and the very bluest states across our country. Did you ever try and figure out what those were? Take a look. In Mississippi, 53 percent describe themselves as conservative. Did you know that? Their neighbors in Louisiana and Alabama also made this list. OK, that's red.
Now, if you're feeling blue, head on up to New England. I'm going to reveal the rest of tonight's list. It's right after the break. Two minutes and we're going to be right back. RICK'S LIST continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back to the LIST. This is going to be a rocking show.
The list of America's most red and blue states is out. And here is what the Gallup survey is telling us. You ready? America's bluest state, Rhode Island. Chad Myers, did you know Rhode Island is the bluest state? Thirty-two percent say there, yes, I'm a liberal. The most conservative state, well, it's a tie between Mississippi and this state, Wyoming, 53 percent. Makes sense when you consider Wyoming is where former Vice President and neoconservative Dick Cheney served as congressman for more than 20 years.
But the big winner, for the left anyway, isn't even a state at all -- 42 percent of those living in Washington, D.C., are bluer than blue.
Wasn't that a song?
All eyes along the Gulf Coast tonight watching the oil well, where, in just hours, the so-called static kill operation will finally take place. Chad is going to be telling us about that in just a minute, and nobody explains this kind of stuff better than Chad.
One of the biggest controversies, though, to come out of this oil disaster, one that we have been covering here on RICK'S LIST is the use of the dispersants, the chemicals poured into the Gulf to help break up all that oil.
And today we got some news from the federal government that's going to come as a big surprise to many people, and to many -- be honest, to many in the mainstream media, especially those on the left, who tend to make stories about the environment more of a sky-is- falling type of effect, worried the dispersant is going to poison wildlife and add to the toxic nightmare that started 105 days ago.
Legitimate questions. But conclusions? Not yet, right? The EPA now says and -- and they have got some conclusions, and they are basing this on brand-new independent test results, that the dispersant that was used in the Gulf, Corexit 9500 -- here it is. Here's the report that we have been looking at throughout the day -- when mixed with oil is generally, it says, no more or less toxic than seven other dispersants than they have tested so far.
That's what they said. And here is the real story. The report also finds the mix of oil and dispersant is generally no more toxic to sea life all by itself. In fact, they go on to talk specifically about one type of sea life here.
Let me read this. Come on, Mark. You here? All right. Louisiana sweet crude oil was more toxic to (INAUDIBLE) shrimp than the eight dispersants when tested alone. I mean, there you go. That's part of what they found. So, maybe some were too quick to sound the alarm. Maybe the Corexit and the natural biodegrading process are actually working as hoped.
Right after these results were made public today, I had conversations with several people, including this conversation.
Here is Susan Shaw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SUSAN SHAW, MARINE TOXICOLOGIST: There's a lot of anecdotal data. And I was there -- personally there three weeks ago. When I was on your show --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SHAW: -- and I can tell you this, fishermen across the Gulf, independent of each other, not knowing what anybody else is saying told me they have never seen so many dead fish. I said, oh really, I hadn't heard that. It's like what you're saying. Yes, all the bait fish were dead up on the beaches. All the small herring were dead.
And then when I went out on Barataria Bay with the shrimpers, I was out there -- they showed me dead material in the water. It just -- it was eerie out there. There was nothing live in that water. And that's, you know, as you know, a very highly impacted area.
SANCHEZ: But the stories you're sharing with us unfortunately -- and, look, I'm not saying that you're not right and I'm certainly not saying the fishermen aren't right, that's anecdotal.
SHAW: That's correct.
SANCHEZ: That's somebody told somebody they saw something, as opposed to we did a test and recorded this percent of the population of this type of fish is dead. Where is that kind of data?
SHAW: I think we were banned from the area before we could get in and see all that. I don't think we are getting the picture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And Chad Myers joins us now.
It's an incredible conversation, because you look at this and you start to wonder, well, where is the oil? Apparently, the dispersant worked. Visually, it worked. And then you go, well, where is all the dead fish if the dispersant is so bad?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And that's not to say that you and I know or she knows or anybody else knows. The question is, it's a hell of a question. And until it gets answered, we want to know what it is.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. And they're saying maybe this dispersant, maybe it broke it up so well that when the sun hit it, it went away, it evaporated immediately, because it was just a small molecule, by itself, rather than a big lump of water.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And I hope so. I hope it worked great. I hope we're not doing stories on the terrible effects of this.
(CROSSTALK) MYERS: We have had professors, though, say that's exactly -- we went so far as to say let's not Monday-morning quarterback this. Let's just wait. What should we have done? And the guy went, we did it right.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes. You had to use dispersants.
MYERS: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Tell me what's going on with this new static kill, when it's going into effect. And show me on your little wizard thing over there how this thing is actually going to go down.
MYERS: Do you know what the difference between top kill and static kill is?
SANCHEZ: No.
MYERS: Good, because there is none.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: There is none.
MYERS: There is none.
(LAUGHTER)
MYERS: OK. Well, top kill, that's because we're going to take the oil, take the fluid, the mud, and put it down into the top and push it down, and take all this oil, push it back down into the reservoir.
SANCHEZ: Right.
MYERS: Why they are calling it static kill is because the first time they tried this top kill, the oil was just coming out as fast as it possibly could, so the mud never had a chance to go down. Now that this isn't going up anymore, that the stopped oil is static, or not moving, now the mud is going to have a chance to go down. So, that's why they are calling it a static kill, and not just top kill, whatever.
The whole deal is going to be this. The mud is going to come down. It's going to get into the blowout preventer and it's going to get shoved down the hole, down that push holding that mud and all that oil down as that mud gets heavier and heavier and heavier over the thousands and thousands of feet.
This is a picture from May when we tried this earlier. Remember this kinked pipe right there? That kinked pipe would not allow this mud to go down. All this oil was coming out and pushing the oil up into the water, instead of down into the tube, into the well. That has now stopped. The mud is going to go down. Here we go, Rick.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You're good. I was timing you. You got that like in 45 seconds.
MYERS: You told me I had a minute.
SANCHEZ: Well, it's because you have told that story nine zillion times, because it's the same explanation for a different strategy.
MYERS: I know. Yes.
SANCHEZ: Still ahead right here -- thanks, Chad -- right here on the LIST: Did you hear about this prison break in Arizona? Three convicted killers break out. They still haven't found these guys. The men hijack an 18-wheeler. Police say they are armed and dangerous.
Also, it's one of the hottest topics online tonight. Bill Cosby, is he did or is he not dead? I'm serious. This went just like a maniac on Twitter. This story hit Twitter today, to make a declaration. He says -- by the way, he tweets, "I am alive."
But how did this happen? What's behind this fake death rumor that all of a sudden sprung up today about Bill Cosby. We're going to be all over that. In fact, you know who has got that for us? Brooke Baldwin is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: OK. Brooke is here.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello.
SANCHEZ: For trending. Before we do anything else, let's talk a little bit about this word that Sarah Palin used that everyone is tweeting about now and everyone is talking about it.
BALDWIN: And it is trending today.
SANCHEZ: All right.
BALDWIN: You tell them.
SANCHEZ: All right. Here is John Cornyn. Well, I will just read the tweet over there. Here is John Cornyn. He says, "I didn't know that Governor Palin was bilingual," because she used the word, you know.
BALDWIN: The word.
SANCHEZ: Cojones, exactly.
And here is somebody else who tweets about her using the word. "Sarah Palin says Obama lacks" -- I can't even say that word -- "on immigration. Embracing the language of immigrants is cooler" -- this is interesting -- look what he says -- "Embracing the language of immigrants is cooler than embracing immigrants, Sarah."
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: And what you were explaining to those of us who didn't grow up speaking Spanish, this word is incredibly vulgar.
SANCHEZ: It's incredibly vulgar and grotesque.
BALDWIN: You would never say this in front of your mother.
SANCHEZ: It would be like using the M.F. word when going to another country and speaking English. It's just totally unacceptably...
BALDWIN: And she said this on TV.
SANCHEZ: ... totally vulgar, totally wrong. And I know she's not the first, in fairness. Madeleine Albright used it once during a trip to Miami. It's a very, very horrible word speaking directly about a certain part of the male anatomy.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And there's different ways of using -- of describing that male anatomy. You know how it is with little kids. You can use a word with little kids.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: More diminutive, sure.
SANCHEZ: Right, right, like a little girl's part or a little boy's part. But when you use this word -- if I used this word in front of my mother, she would slap me in the face in front of everybody.
BALDWIN: Even today?
SANCHEZ: Even today.
BALDWIN: Even today.
SANCHEZ: All right, so, enough of that, just so we know, because I think it's getting a little overused.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What do you have in trending?
BALDWIN: I'm not using that word.
I am using...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Not in front of my mother, and she's watching.
BALDWIN: Not in front of anyone.
SANCHEZ: OK. Two big stories that are trending today, I talked to Arizona Department of corrections now two times today. Just want to get the latest information.
Here is what we know right now. Police are still looking for those two of the three convicted killers who busted out of that medium-security prison in Arizona Friday. The third, by the way, who was caught in Rifle, Colorado, after a shoot-out with police is now being questioned.
But here is the deal. This is according to the Department of Corrections. Here is how they did it on Friday. They walked out. I'm not kidding, literally walked out of the prison dorm door. The alarm, as it was explained to me, never went off. They actually cut through a prison fence, just left. They then kidnapped two big rig drivers at gunpoint.
Here is one of the drivers thankful he lived to talk about it.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRABHJEET BAINS, ABDUCTED TRUCKER: We were riding on the I-80 Eastbound. And we pull up the ramp. And the two guys and the one female, they pull us over at the gunpoint, and they tried to kill us. So, finally, they drove us to over here from Kingman to Flagstaff. So, finally, they change their mind. They didn't kill us. They left us over here. And we are good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: He's kind of smiling now. But can you imagine? Can you imagine? Also he mentioned the two men and a woman. Police believe that that is the fiancee -- here she is -- of one of these escapees.
They are also naming her as an accomplice. She was on that visitation list, I learned today, the day they escaped. She has something to do with it.
As for the two still on the run, the Department of Corrections thinks they are actually still in Arizona. I asked why. And the guess, perhaps they do have some family there. The other question I had was, why were all these convicted killers in a medium-security prison? And get this. I was told they had good behavior.
That's that story.
SANCHEZ: That's a little scary, isn't it? BALDWIN: It's frightening. And it's frightening because they are considered armed and dangerous. And I would be a little worried if I was living in...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you something else. Everybody on Twitter today -- and you and I are Twitter all day long -- everybody on Twitter has been talking about Bill Cosby.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: People have been tweeting me. And at first, I was like why are you asking me if Bill Cosby is dead or alive, until I finally saw what was trending, right? So you know how occasionally the Internet tends to kill off celebrities, even when they are very much still alive and kicking, right?
SANCHEZ: Yes. Castro has been killed 20 times.
BALDWIN: Many people have been. So, case in point today on Twitter, what was literally trending was this phrase Bill Cosby died.
And I picked up the phone. I called Bill Cosby's publicist. And not only is he alive. He was so bothered by the news. He told me he had people calling him, crying, worried about him.
So, take a look at this latest tweet. This is the very latest tweet we have seen from Bill Cosby, saying: "Emotional friends have called about this misinformation. To the people behind the foolishness, I'm not sure you see how upsetting this is."
I also got a statement from him reinforcing, of course, a little humor there, since he is a comedian, saying: "My wife has just informed me that there was no such word as rebuttaling." He was saying earlier he was rebuttaling this news. He says: "She says the word is rebutting, but I don't care because I'm alive."
So, he's alive. He's OK. He's even talking about it tonight on "LARRY KING" to put all these rumors to rest, with our pal Kyra Phillips...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, as long as he didn't refudiate, he's fine.
BALDWIN: He didn't refudiate, or he's not rebuttaling. He's OK.
SANCHEZ: Thanks to you. Good stuff. Appreciate it for what is trending.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: What? Go ahead.
BALDWIN: No, no, I was thinking we had a list, but never mind. SANCHEZ: All right. We can get it later?
BALDWIN: Premature.
SANCHEZ: All right.
If the Bush tax cuts run over at the end of this year, whose bottom line would suffer? Most of you watching this program right now have a household budget to balance, right? When your paycheck gets smaller, what do you cut from your spending? Shouldn't we be worried about cutting the deficit? That's what we hear from Dems and from Republicans all day long.
Can you have your cake and then eat it, too? I'm going to pose this list of questions to our chief business correspondent, Ali Velshi. That's coming up in just a little bit.
Also, "Fotos" takes a little bit of Jersey flava tonight.
BALDWIN: Flava.
SANCHEZ: I said that right, flava, flava.
Hey, Snooki, say cheese!
(LAUGHTER)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It is time for "Fotos." They say God looks after drunks and fools. But who's looking after Snooki?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah, dios mio.
SANCHEZ: Oh, it's been a tough weekend for the "Jersey Shore" star, Snooki, who was arrested Friday in Seaside Heights, New Jersey, for disorderly conduct. Reports say that she appeared to be intoxicated when she was taken away by police. The 22-year-old whose real name is Nicole Polizzi was released in time for her show's season premier that same night on MTV. The mug shot is getting a whole lot of attention. Take a listen to the response I got when I asked our viewers to tweet us with their own captions for the unflattering pics. Here are the top three.
From "Jersey Shore" to cell block 4. "Umpa lumpa, arrested for escaping the chocolate factory." "And hey, at least I look better than Nick Nolte."
Yes, that's what Nick Nolte looks like. For those of you who can't remember, that's the infamous Nick Nolte mug shot that got so much attention just a few years back.
And no, this is not an outtake from the movie "Jaws." This is actual video from Cape Cod, Massachusetts, where seven -- count them -- seven great white sharks, not makos. Great white shark sightings were reported over the weekend. All of the beaches in the area now being patrolled. One has been shut down. Officials are urging beachgoers to use caution. You think. Shark enthusiasts, however, have been swarming trying to get a look at the animals wondering what the big beasts are coming in so close for. They're after gray seals that have been congregating in the area.
Also, a close call at the Pennsylvania 500. Driver Elliott Sadler was lucky to walk away.
Have you seen this crash, folks? This is the Pocono Raceway. That's the engine going through the ground and then popping up. See that? That's the engine that flew out of the car. If not for the head and neck safety restraint, he would have likely not been with us on this day.
Those are "Fotos." And I can tell you that if ever you want to see any of this again, you can do it, right there on your Internets. "Fotos Del Dia" is on CNN.com/ricksanchez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah, dios mio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: The problem is you can't keep spending and cut taxes at the same time. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You can't have your cake and eat it, too. I know that. You know that. Everyone who's ever tried to balance a budget like my wife knows that. So who's going to end up paying higher taxes? We're talking about this whole Bush tax cuts thing. Do you keep it or do you get rid of it? And if so, can you still balance the budgets? Can you still cut the deficit?
Ali Velshi has some answers. So do a lot of other people like Greenspan? Also, if I told you combat in Iraq would end in 29 days, would you believe me? Twenty-nine days. What if the president of the United States came out today and said that exact same thing. Well, guess what? He did. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to RICK'S LIST. So glad you're here. So many tweets. Going through them during commercials. Number one on my political list, something many of you are referring to. Should the Bush tax cuts be allowed to expire as scheduled on December 31st?
This is a very important question for the republic, and Republicans argue that continuing the cuts for everyone will spur much need economic growth. Is that true? Is that true?
The president and fellow Democrats say the tax cuts are for only the wealthiest of Americans who make more than $250,000 a year. Is that true? Is that true? And they say the cuts should be allowed to expire. Well, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said yesterday on ABC's "This Week" that she would like to see a vote on before the mid-term elections on ending the tax cuts for the wealthy but extending the middle class tax cuts. It's like having your cake and eating it, too. Our own Fareed Zakaria, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" disagrees with both Democrats and Republicans. And here's his take.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FAREED ZAKARIA, HOST, "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS: You see, George Bush's massive tax cuts are the single largest chunk of our structural budget deficit. Take a look at this chart. It shows the deficit growth over the next 10 years. And the red stripe shows just how much those Bush tax cuts add to the deficit.
Well, those tax cuts are due to expire at the end of the year. Were the tax cuts to expire, the budget deficit would instantly shrink by about 30 percent or more than $300 billion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Ali Velshi joining us now, our chief business guru guy.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Nice to see you, my man.
SANCHEZ: OK. So, he said 30 percent of the deficit are these tax cuts.
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: That's a lot.
VELSHI: Yes. And look, Fareed is a very smart guy. He's indicating that if you're giving these tax cuts, the only reason that would make sense to extend them is if you're making that up elsewhere.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
VELSHI: So they're contributing to the deficit, they had better be generating the investment or the new jobs, or the new business that is equivalent to that and doesn't look likely.
SANCHEZ: So, if we get rid of the tax cuts --
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: -- all of them. Not just the ones the Democrats don't like but all of them.
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: Right? I mean, because the Republicans are saying no, no, no because, you know, it tends to be --
VELSHI: Right. SANCHEZ: -- that the Republicans tend to protect their base, which tends to be the over $250,000 crowd. And the Democrats tend to protect their base, which is under $250,000. The fact of the matter is, if you really want to be honest about cutting the deficit, you've got to cut it -- get rid of this thing for everybody.
VELSHI: Yes. I mean, look, one of the things that Fareed said is look over to David Cameron in Great Britain. They are --
SANCHEZ: He increased taxes.
VELSHI: He increased the taxes --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
VELSHI: -- and cutting spending. Now, what this administration doesn't want to do is cut spending while the economy is not on the road to recovery yet. Because if people aren't spending their own money, government continues to spend and that keeps people employed. The problem is you can't keep spending and cut taxes at the same time. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.
SANCHEZ: Well, if you get rid of these, then you're essentially cutting taxes, or you're essentially getting rid of a tax cut.
VELSHI: Right. So if you let them -- if you did nothing, these tax cuts are going to expire on December 31st. And that would represent an increase in taxes for Americans.
SANCHEZ: So you're not really increasing taxes by definition but you're stopping the cutting of the taxes.
VELSHI: Yes. I mean, different people look at it different ways.
SANCHEZ: Which means --
VELSHI: But taxes will go up for some people.
SANCHEZ: Which means Ali and Rick's corporation, which is basically the United States government will have more revenue.
VELSHI: Right.
Assuming that it doesn't drive people out of business, which is what some conservatives will have you believe that it is so bad, it will increase taxes.
SANCHEZ: But if that was the case, look -- but wait, hold on, hold on. If that was the case, then why would this system of tax cuts initiated by George Bush, did our country almost go into another Great Depression?
VELSHI: Right. Which is the best --
SANCHEZ: It is such a great strategy. VELSHI: That is the strongest argument against those who say don't let the tax cuts expire because it will -- it's the best thing you can do for our economy. It's not doing it at the moment. The reality is, for many people, the increase will be so little, that it doesn't generate, as Fareed said, it doesn't generate new spending. They'll just take it and it will just be saved.
So look, there's a valid argument here. But the reality is if deficit is your big concern and you want to cut the deficit, this would be a very effective way to put a big chunk into that.
SANCHEZ: You're obviously a really smart guy and you follow this very carefully. I'm interested in what someone else has to say.
Here's Alan Greenspan.
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: Now Alan Greenspan is to some people the goat or the hero of everything that's happened in the last 20 years. But he has a very definitive opinion on this. More definitive than he usually is, I think.
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: So let's take a listen to this and I want to see what your reaction is on the other side. Here, take -- Rodge (ph), take Greenspan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN GREENSPAN, FORMER FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: I'm very much in favor of tax cuts but not with borrowed money. And the problem that we've gotten into in recent years is spending programs with borrowed money. Tax cuts with borrowed money, tax cuts with borrowed money. And at the end of the day, that proves disastrous. In my view, I don't think we can play subtle policy here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't agree with Republican leaders who say tax cuts pay for themselves.
GREENSPAN: They do not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: What do you think of it?
VELSHI: Tax cuts are like stimulus. It depends on whether they're targeted and when they happen. So you saw the four-hour stimulus in this administration, the Bush stimulus, if you recall, most of that didn't get spent. It depends -- it's kind of like when you're at the park with your kid and you're pushing them on the swing. The push only matters if the kid is where you're pushing them. Right? If your kid is on that side of the swing and you're pushing it, it won't matter.
SANCHEZ: So --
VELSHI: That's what -- the same thing happens with tax cuts and stimulus, with government money. It's got to be targeted and applied to somewhere where it will more than pay for itself. And some of the theory here is that these ones don't.
SANCHEZ: One final question --
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: -- Mr. Smarty pants economist. You're ready?
VELSHI: Well, neither of those two but go ahead.
SANCHEZ: But you look good in hats, especially they're mine.
VELSHI: You gave me one.
SANCHEZ: All right. So here's the decision we have to make as a nation. The people who lost their jobs and are unemployed, do we give them a little bit of a shot in the arm to get them through the next year and give them their unemployed benefits, or do we say to hell with them, let's help the rich guys who run businesses because they'll create jobs that will eventually give those unemployed guys jobs.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: It's a tough call.
VELSHI: It is a tough call and I think there are defenses to both of those arguments. The problem is the ones who didn't choose to be unemployed and they're many of them who have been unemployed for the long-term, for more than six months --
SANCHEZ: Yes.
VELSHI: -- what do you do if you stop giving them the benefits? What happens to them? Do we start getting tent cities? Do we start getting all those --
SANCHEZ: So you say that's where we ought to go.
VELSHI: I under the arguments on both sides. I think you can't weigh one against the other. One of them is a nice thing to do by stimulating the economy. The other one is urgent and has to do with people who didn't do anything to get themselves in the position they're in.
SANCHEZ: It almost sounds like you want to say the right thing.
VELSHI: Well, there's a moral argument. There's an economic argument, and they struggle with each other.
SANCHEZ: I'll save it for you.
VELSHI: Good to see you my friend. SANCHEZ: Appreciate it. Always good to see you.
VELSHI: All right.
SANCHEZ: All right, here's another question. And I think Americans should be asking these types of questions. One we probably should be able to answer before we leave Iraq. Have we won that war? The president says combat is going to end August 31st. We're going to see if we can find an answer.
Also, my "List U Don't Want 2 Be On." Who makes it tonight? Who's the person chosen? Never a shortage of candidates and unfortunately, no shortage of elected officials. Tonight, a congresswoman is on the list. You'll hear her story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I'm going to have some closing thoughts on Iraq coming up in just a little bit. Questions that Americans should ask. Did we win? Did we lose? Did we draw? And shouldn't we be allowed to have answers to those questions? But before we do that, which is a very serious topic, I want to do something a little less serious. It is now time for what we call at this time every night "The Laugh List." Three funniest jokes on late night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH JIMMY FALLON": Tomorrow is Chelsea Clinton's big wedding day in Rhinebeck, New York. I hope it's a beautiful day. I hope it's a beautiful day for her. Chelsea will have four bridesmaids and Bill will have two. That will be nice.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": President Obama went on "The View" yesterday and got something he hasn't had in years, high ratings. Yes.
JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH JIMMY FALLON": Townsend, New Jersey, have started using a device to give people advanced warning of lightning. Yes. It's called thunder. A new thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I know. I know. You've seen a lot of -- Jimmy Fallon twice in that hit. You know why? Because lately Jimmy Fallon has been on fire. Also, he's making the list a lot these days. OK. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As we mark the end of America's combat mission in Iraq, a grateful America must pay tribute to all who served there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is what we wanted to get down to in just a little bit. The president says, just a little moment, a little snippet in a speech that was carried today only on cable. But it was an important moment. He says he's keeping his campaign promises to get American forces out of Iraq by the end of this month. So -- and he said it. You're going to hear it. Is this the end? And can anyone tell America what we did there? Did we win? Did we lose? Did we draw?
First, number two on "The List That U Don't Want 2 Be On," conservative blogger, Andrew Breitbart. He is the guy who posted the edited video that made government worker Shirley Sherrod sound like a racist. Key word there, sound like a racist, not be a racist.
Of course, her speech was taken out of context. Last week, Sherrod said that she plans to sue Breitbart. Well, now, the Republican National Committee has canceled a fund-raiser with Breitbart as the headliner. The GOP was billing the event election countdown. Republican organizers tell CNN they plan to schedule another event in the state. The RNC says Breitbart would still be welcomed at the new event, but let's see if he actually ends up making an appearance. We'll all believe it when we see it. So he is number two on "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On."
When we come back, there's another person we'll call out. This is the person who takes top billing on "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On." See you in two.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Tonight, Democrats are thinking about how they're going to keep their seats in Congress while they're also thinking about two of their party leaders handling ethics charges. Here is the number one choice for "The List That U Don't Want 2 Be On."
She is California Congresswoman Maxine Waters. A House Ethics is now charging her with breaking the rules. She's accused of trying to get money from the government. Excuse me, that means us taxpayers, to help a struggling bank. But not just any bank. A bank her husband had personal ties to financially. And oh, yes, she is a senior member of the House Financial Services Committee.
Conflict of interest? Certainly sounds like it. Congresswoman Waters insists that she did nothing wrong. But remember the timing of this announcement? It comes just three days after the ethics committee slapped veteran Congressman Charlie Rangel with 13 charges. Among the accusations he didn't pay his taxes. So both could face trials in September right in the middle of campaign season before the mid-term elections and could turn into a circus of bad publicity, one that involves Maxine Waters who tops tonight's "List U Don't Want 2 Be On."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I made it clear that by August 31st, 2010, America's combat mission in Iraq would end.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Isn't that just around the corner, Mr. President? I heard that today. We all asked ourselves, the Iraq war is finally over. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. The president of the United States wants you to know he's about to make good on a campaign pledge. Here he is today in Atlanta.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I made it clear that by August 31st, 2010, America's combat mission in Iraq would end. And that is exactly what we are doing, as promised and on schedule.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And think about that for just a moment. The Iraq war is over in 29 days. It's over.
Let's you and I look at where we've been. Hard to believe. But once upon a time, we were united over Iraq. Americans backed the Iraq war by 72 percent when George W. Bush launched it in March 2003. Less than a month later, Saddam Hussein fell, and a month after that, Mr. Bush announced the end of major combat prematurely.
It was premature because Iraq insurgents weren't dead-enders, the words that Donald Rumsfeld erroneously used.
2004 and the war's bloodiest battle, Fallujah, U.S. deaths nearly doubled that year. Support for the war dropped to below 50 percent. We learn about Abu Ghraib. And an official report concluded no weapons of mass destruction.
2005, Iraq's first election, they said it would break the insurgency. It didn't.
2006, Saddam Hussein hanged. They said it would break the insurgency. It didn't.
2007 the U.S. sent David Petraeus, and Petraeus launched the surge. American combat deaths hit an all-time high. Public support hit an all-time low.
But in 2008, because of the surge, the tide turned. Annual combat death were the lowest since the war began. Barack Obama took office. 2009, promised to get us out. And here we are today, except for tomorrow and the questions my kids, your kids will ask, like these, why and did we win?
That's RICK'S LIST for tonight. Thanks for being with us. "LARRY KING LIVE" is next.
