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Rick's List
Nine Dead in Connecticut Workplace Shooting
Aired August 03, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: There's a lot that we need to talk about tonight, because this involves workplace violence. This involves race in America. This involves an unspeakable tragedy. And really, when you get down to it, this is mass murder, folks.
Here's the LIST.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: This is a RICK'S LIST special report in crime.
A bloodbath in Manchester, Connecticut, it's about race. A man kills eight fellow workers at a beer distribution center.
WILL HOLLIDAY, UNCLE OF GUNMAN: He said, "I killed the five racists that was there that was bothering me."
SANCHEZ: Why didn't anyone hear his complaints? Or did they? Reports indicate he was being called the N-word and was set off by a hangman's noose scrawled on a bathroom wall. What are police saying? How did he kill eight people? What are witnesses saying?
A special report on race and tragedy begins right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: There is so much -- there is just so much to take you through, folks. Nine people are dead tonight. This is at a business in Manchester, Connecticut, and the story is just now starting to come in that shapes a story that Americans will likely be talking about for days.
This is the story that we are going to cover throughout this hour as breaking news, because it involves a man who seems to be intimating that he was being referred to with the N-word, and it's not just that, but that the thing that made him snap was when someone had drawn or scrawled on the bathroom a hangman's noose.
There's even a report that he overheard two of his supervisors saying something to the effect that they needed to get rid of the N- word, referring to him, and that he heard that.
Now, this is the story that we're getting from him, vis-a-vis his family members, which he had shared these stories with in previous days. There's also a report tonight that, just as he was committing this mass murder this morning, this hateful-filled shooting spree, where he killed eight of his co-workers, that he got on the phone and started calling people to tell them what he had just done and why he did it, referring to the victims in this case as racists.
There are obviously two sides to this story, and we are going to be sharing both with you, because we have just made contact as well with one of the persons who is a part of the union who apparently was saying that he had been disciplined.
This -- this shooter is -- was being disciplined for something he had done allegedly having to do with theft. Now, let me take you through what we know about him before I give you some of the information. And before I go to our correspondent who's standing by on the scene.
He is identified as Omar Thornton, 34 years old. There is his picture. We're getting information that he was only one of maybe two men of color who worked at this particular business, this beer distribution center.
This morning, when he showed up for work, his bosses, his foreman told him he had to go to a meeting and it was a disciplinary meeting. He was given a choice, we understand, that he could either resign or that he would be fired. Apparently, he then started firing instead.
We -- as far as we have learned now from police, he killed himself. No one shot him. He actually killed himself after he had apparently killed eight people and wounded two others.
Let me just take you through some of the other information, as we see some of the very first pictures that have been coming from this scene throughout the course of the day, we're also going to be catching up with our correspondent. We're going to be talking to the union representative. We're also going to be talking to our own police experts.
But this is some of the information that we have learned from some of CNN's affiliates that have been sharing this information. Police are saying that he attended the disciplinary conference, as I just told you, before the gunfire broke out. Follow me here.
He was a driver with the company when he was facing the disciplinary action in connection with some kind of theft. The owner of the company was preparing to let Thornton go when witnesses say all hell broke loose.
Police say they believe Thornton was given the option of resigning from the company or being terminated. Manchester police say that Thornton was being escorted from the building when suddenly the gunfire erupted.
There's one other moment here which is interesting in all the reports that we're seeing. Suddenly the receptionist in the building, a woman named Marissa Busiere, said -- started screaming out: "He's shooting. He's shooting. Call 911." And suddenly everyone started pouring out of the building as he started -- as Omar Thornton started shooting at his own co-workers. We're still piecing this together, but I can tell you that our correspondent is standing by now. Alison has been following this for quite some time.
Let's do this. Kelly, if we can, before we go to our correspondent on this story, just a while ago, Alison Kosik was able to nail down an interview. The woman that you're going to hear from here, and this is raw -- we just got this turned around -- the woman that you're going to hear from here is the mother of the shooter, this mass killer's girlfriend.
So, the girlfriend had been telling the mother about him before. Apparently, he had made some phone calls to the family today after he had shot five people. And finally she is now telling his story. And she does through our correspondent, Alison Kosik.
So, I think we're ready to go. Kelly, if we have that.
Here now, the entire interview. I think it goes about three-and- a-half, four minutes of what she said he said. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Joanne, your daughter Kristi dated Omar for eight years. What can you tell me about the working conditions for Omar at the warehouse?
JOANNE HANNAH, MOTHER OF SHOOTER'S GIRLFRIEND: Well, third party, that's all I'm getting it from, because I'm just getting it from what my daughter's told us, but he was being harassed racially at work.
Supposedly, there was -- which he had pictures on his cell phone, on his camera of the cell phone, showing that there was the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED) written on the bathroom walls. There was a stick figure with a hangman noose on the bathroom walls. And comments had been being made to him, like he earned his way in that position because he was a (EXPLETIVE DELETED), supposedly had gotten a voice recording of a supervisor that came in the bathroom. They didn't know he was in the bathroom stall. He told my daughter to be quiet and listened.
And he taped and had my daughter verify that one of the supervisors that came in the bathroom was saying we need to get rid of this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of here, referring to Omar.
KOSIK: Did he ever bring these problems up to management at the company?
HANNAH: From what we're being -- well, like I said, third party, because I'm going with what my daughter tells me he told her -- he took it to a separate supervisor in the warehouse and he took it to his union rep.
KOSIK: And what was the reply?
HANNAH: From what I'm being told, he was told that they would check into it, and that's as far as it went.
KOSIK: And how long did this go on for? How long did Omar work there?
HANNAH: He started two years ago. He started in the actual warehouse as a packer for Budweiser, and then, eventually, what do you call it, started driving. He had to work his way into the driving position, and he just started there about a year ago driving.
KOSIK: OK, but when did these threats...
HANNAH: Within the last year. It wasn't until he got into the driving position that other people were obviously threatened by him. And that's when the harassment started.
KOSIK: How apparently was it for Omar every day to go to work knowing that this allegedly existed, this kind of racial harassment?
HANNAH: Was getting sick and tired to the point the last thing I knew from my daughter told me that he had talked about calling an attorney and bringing a suit against the company.
KOSIK: What about any indications that he was just going to go in shooting like he did today?
HANNAH: None of us. None of us. We didn't know any of this was even going on this morning, until my daughter happened to talk to his mom. His mom freaked out on the phone, hung up on her. Within an hour or so later, his mother called back and confirmed that he had called her this morning saying he had just shot five people.
KOSIK: Was this -- and this was after this happened, obviously?
HANNAH: This was after all that happened this morning. And he just wanted to say goodbye to his mother and my daughter and tell everybody he loved them. So, he was already obviously planning on either being taken out or was going to kill himself. One way or another, he wasn't coming out of there alive, obviously.
KOSIK: I understand he was collecting some sort of proof of some of this, the...
HANNAH: Like I said, it was on his cell phone. He had photos of it and he had the actual voice-mail of the supervisor and the other gentleman in the bathroom.
KOSIK: And how did the union react to it?
HANNAH: They're still saying, what do you call it, that they were going to check into it. And that was the last thing he was told.
KOSIK: He had a disciplinary hearing this morning.
HANNAH: That's it. And we knew nothing about it. My daughter didn't know anything about it. She brought it up to his mother, his mother said. My daughter talked to his best friend. He said he was just with him yesterday. He had no inkling of any of this. So, none of us knew anything about him coming on disciplinary.
KOSIK: What about allegations of stealing?
HANNAH: It's a possibility. I mean, I don't see it as. He just seemed too honest to me to do that, but I didn't expect this guy to do this either. So, you don't know somebody, obviously.
KOSIK: All right, Joanne, thanks for talking with us today.
HANNAH: You're welcome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Wow. My thanks to Alison Kosik. She's the correspondent who raced out there.
You may have seen earlier today I had a conversation with Alison. And we then got on the horn with her and she said, I have made contact with this -- the mother of the girlfriend. The mother of the girlfriend said if you come over now, we will give you an interview. So she raced over there to her house and just turned that interview around a little while ago.
I'm glad that we were able to bring it to you, although there's a lot of controversial material here. And obviously as a news organization we want to be as fair as possible with this information. You're hearing a lot of allegations there that make it sound like he was a very troubled man and that people were picking on him and that people were saying all these god-awful things to him that apparently made him snap.
Well, what does the union, what does the company say about these things? And, if so, this was going on, was there any kind of investigation that was taking place? This is what we also need to drill down on as we move forward.
Let me tell you what we're going to do. We're going to bring Alison back in, in just a little bit. We're going to join her live to round out the story of what she's learning there in Manchester from some of the officials, some of the witnesses.
We also now are starting to -- some of the information about who was there at the time is starting to eke out. We have some of the names, the shop steward, for example, who was there who actually called Thornton in for the meeting who was the first one to share the bad news with him, and several others.
Remember, we're talking about eight people who were killed, it looks like in cold blood. We're not sure if anybody fired back, shot back. It does not appear that way. It appears that they were being shot at by him and they had no way to fight back.
I will tell you, what a tragedy. We're -- we're still getting the information in. As it comes in, we will share it with you. We will take you through all the different sources on this story.
This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST, tragedy in Manchester. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We're going to do what we do best here at CNN. We're bringing you breaking news and we're drilling down on it and breaking down all the elements of this story, so that we can give you a clear picture of what apparently has happened there in this bloodbath that has taken place in Manchester, Connecticut.
So, call your friends and neighbors. Tell them, if they're watching Olbermann or O'Reilly, to switch the channel. And we're going to bring you up to date on this story as only we can.
Alison Kosik has been a real hustler for us over the last five or six hours. She's been working the story, and she raced over to get that interview moments ago with the mother of the girlfriend.
Alison, you know, it looks to me like there's two sides to this story tonight. On the one hand, you have people there at work who are saying they had video of this guy stealing. They confronted him with that video and he snapped. And then we have the other side of the story, which is, he was a frustrated, angry guy because he had been racially harassed over a period of several weeks, if not months.
Help try and clear this up for us.
KOSIK: Yes, I mean, well, the great thing is, is that we kind of got a fly-on-the-wall perspective.
You know, we talked with Ross Hollander. He's the CEO of the distributor where Omar worked. And this is what he says. He says that this disciplinary meeting that you were referring to, Rick, this was already planned in advance. So, this was not sprung on him this morning when he walked into work.
In fact, the girlfriend's mother told us in that interview that he overslept and kept on hitting his alarm a few times. He finally, of course, made it to work. And this is what the CEO tells us happened, that he arrived for this disciplinary hearing, which, by the way, he was accompanied by the president of his local union, who was in this meeting with company officials.
They presented him a videotape of what they say they saw him doing. They say that Omar was stealing beer and had the videotape to prove it. In fact, the CEO tells us that they showed him this videotape and then gave him a choice. They gave him a choice. You could either be fired or you can resign.
And what he did, says the CEO, what Omar did is sign a document saying that he would resign. Then he proceeded to tell the people he was with that he was thirsty. He went to the water fountain, got a drink, and then he pulled out his handgun and started shooting. And that's when all hell broke loose, as you said earlier -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: I'm just wondering, was there any resistance? Did -- was there an armed guard there? Did they -- they knew that they were going to be firing this man. Did they go through a procedure that would have protected the rest of the people there?
I ask this question because I'm sure there are people watching this newscast right now who are wondering, oh, my God, I certainly hope the company that I work for is prepared for this type of eventuality. And in, unfortunately, the times we live in, they probably need to be, right?
KOSIK: Of course. I agree wholeheartedly with you.
We're not hearing any details about having any extra security on hand for this meeting. Sure, I mean, you would think it would be common sense. But we're not hearing that. It doesn't mean that extra security wasn't there. But we're definitely not hearing that. I in fact asked the police chief earlier today about that. He didn't even answer my question about that, Rick.
SANCHEZ: So, to be clear, when he starts firing and picking people off one after another, he's basically there free to do as he wants, right? I mean, police are not on the scene. No one seems to be armed. No one fired at him. And from what police are saying, he took his own life. Nobody shot him.
KOSIK: That's exactly right. That's what we're hearing from police.
And when the shooting was going on, we're hearing that a lot of people ran across the street to a warehouse across the street. Just to give you an idea of what it looked like inside this warehouse when the shooting was about to happen, this was a really busy time in this warehouse.
About 100 people were inside. It was a shift change. There were corporate executives in there, drivers, salespeople. It was a really busy time. So, I mean, you think about it, nine people dead, of course, that's a tragedy. It could have been even worse.
There were a lot of people inside this building. And, yes, when police arrived, they say that Omar took his own life.
SANCHEZ: Alison, hang tight. I want to keep getting back to you, because I know that you have been talking to all the players on this story.
KOSIK: Sure.
SANCHEZ: So -- and, Brooke Baldwin, could you -- Brooke Baldwin is going to be joining us here.
You know what I want to get from you, if you could? I want to find out everything that you can about this suspect, about Mr. Thornton, 34 years old, because it seems -- and I mentioned this to viewers just moments ago -- there's two stories here. And we want to get as much information as we possibly can, because you know people are going to be talking about this.
So, details are still coming in. We will replay part of that interview for you in a little bit. And Brooke is going to join us on the other side of this break. Stay right there. This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST, tragedy in Manchester, Connecticut.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to this special edition of RICK'S LIST.
As we come back, there's Joe Lieberman, obviously the senior statesman from -- or one of the senior statesmen from the state of Connecticut. And he's tweeting tonight. "The shooting in Manchester was a senseless tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims, friends and families" -- same sentiment that's being shared by people all over the country tonight, as they learn of this -- this mass murder, this bloodbath. I -- really, there's nothing else that we can call it.
Brooke, you're joining us now.
Thirty-four years old, he is.
BALDWIN: Right.
SANCHEZ: His name is Omar Thornton, seemed like an angry, complicated guy, before he went on this shooting spree, killing eight of his co-workers. What have you learned about that?
BALDWIN: Well, we just heard, thanks to Alison Kosik, from the mother of the girlfriend and all these allegations of racial discrimination at the workplace, right?
Well, we have been hearing from family members also tonight, an uncle, not a mother, but an ex-girlfriend, and they all agreed that he had been complaining about, you know, the noose in the bathroom, the N-word scribbled in the bathroom stall. And in the midst of this bloodshed, you keep saying, in the midst of the killings today, we have learned that the 34-year-old Thornton actually picked up his cell phone and called his mother.
And, according to his uncle, here's what he told her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLLIDAY: He said, "I killed the five racists that was there that was bothering me."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: "The five racists that were there that were bothering me."
Of course, we know now it was eight.
SANCHEZ: He killed eight, yes.
BALDWIN: It was eight, not just five. He also went on to tell his mother in that same phone call that, "The cops are going to come in, so I'm going to take care of myself," perhaps referencing turning the gun on himself.
Family and friends, though, they say they can't believe it, including the girlfriend of -- he's had this girlfriend eight years. Omar Thornton has been described as hardworking, down-to-earth, one of the quietest, shyest people around, not at all violent. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA, GUNMAN'S EX-GIRLFRIEND: He never, ever once raised his hand to me, nothing. He's never been violent that I know of. So, it's just sad to hear this. It's really sad. I don't know what happened inside of him. Something snapped inside his head.
HOLLIDAY: He's so laid back, calm demeanor, never provoke anything or anything like that. And to see something like this happen, just totally out of the blue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: We did find his Facebook profile, if we can throw it up. There it is. We have his picture. We can't see much more because it's private.
But under interests, which is public, one interest of note, the fact that he's interested in Hoffman's Gun Center, an indoor range that's in Connecticut as well. Of course, we picked up the phone. We wanted to call the gun center to try to get some kind of comment. They told us they have been inundated by press. They're not commenting.
We also learned he did file for a permit for a gun about two years ago. That's according to the mother of his girlfriend, who we heard from, from the top of the show. But it's not yet known if that is the gun he used to kill the eight people, plus himself.
Also, just to reiterate sort of his history at this warehouse, he started out at the warehouse. He was a packer two years ago. And then according to family members, look, he worked hard. They say he worked his way up to being a driver. And so that kind of coincides, the fact that -- according to family members they say he perhaps was threatening to some of the other co-workers. Perhaps he rose through the ranks too quickly, and that coincides with these allegations of racism at work, again, according to his family.
SANCHEZ: Yes. Yes. And we need to clear that up, that these are the stories that we're hearing from people who knew him. There's another story.
And what's most important is here, there are eight people who were killed, senselessly...
BALDWIN: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: ... by this man in an act of apparent rage. There's so many questions that we have about what really happened there. You know what we want to do? And hang tight, because I want to get back to you. But one of the union representatives -- oh, and, by the way, before I even say that, what -- what -- Budweiser is a very big company in this country. And they were mentioned in the interview that we did moments ago with the mom, where she said that he's driving for Budweiser.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, we need to clear up -- and we just want to be as fair as possible to Budweiser to give them a chance to respond and find out what really is going on here.
BALDWIN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: So, if we get that comment -- you haven't gotten anything from them yet, have you?
BALDWIN: No, but I will go work on it.
SANCHEZ: OK. Let me know, because I think that might be important, just to clear that part of the story up.
All right, so what really happened there this morning and what was the story behind this disciplinary action that was taken against Omar Thornton?
We have Chris standing by now on the line. He is one of the union representatives who is going to be able to bring us -- hey, Chris, are you there?
CHRISTOPHER ROOS, SECRETARY-TREASURER, TEAMSTERS LOCAL 1035: Yes, I am.
SANCHEZ: Chris, do me a favor. Look, I know you're going through a tough time, buddy, and I understand that you lost some friends today. Hang tight for just a moment. We're just going to get a break in.
When we come back, we're going to dedicate the entire segment to your story, so that you could share that with us and with the rest of the country that's watching.
This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Let me try and catch -- for those of you who are joining us late, there's a breaking story that we're following for you on this evening, because many of the details are now starting to come in about this -- this horrible mass killing that has taken place in Connecticut.
Eight people were killed by a co-worker. The man apparently was upset at the way he was being treated, but it just so happened that this coincides with a disciplinary action that was being taken against him this morning, where a videotape was shown to him allegedly of him stealing from the company. And he was told, look, either you resign or we are going to fire you.
Instead, he took out a loaded weapon and killed eight of his co- workers. He had alleged earlier that the N-word had been used against him, that someone had drawn a hangman's noose, and that he had heard two of his supervisors saying that they wanted to get rid of him, but they didn't refer to him as him. They referred to him with the N- word.
So, that's what we have coming into this story.
Joining us now on the phone is Christopher Roos. He's the secretary-treasurer of the Teamsters Local 1035, which represents the drivers who work at Hartford Distributors, where this has taken place.
Chris, thanks for being so patient. Thanks for calling in and thanks for wanting to share your part of the story with us.
What can you tell us about this disciplinary action this morning?
ROOS: Early this morning, Omar and Bryan Cirigliano were called in by company officials to discuss a disciplinary action that was going to be taken that morning.
SANCHEZ: I understand it had to do with him -- with the fact that he was being accused of stealing product? Is that right?
ROOS: It -- the meeting, from my understanding, was -- is that they were bringing him in to question some actions that they had him on videotape doing.
SANCHEZ: Chris, were you there?
ROOS: No, I wasn't.
SANCHEZ: Have you worked with Mr. Thornton?
ROOS: Yes, I have.
SANCHEZ: Describe him for us.
ROOS: Well, I don't personally work with him. I represent the employees at Hartford Distributors. Very calm demeanor. Never saw anything like this ever.
SANCHEZ: Let's go back to just what happened this morning and then we'll go over the allegations that he says, where he was racially harassed at work. This morning he shows up, he's taken into this disciplinary meeting. Soon afterward, he's told he can either quit, as we understand it, or he can resign. Instead, he chooses to leave the room to get a glass of water, comes back with a gun and starts shooting at people. Do we have that right?
ROOS: That is from what I've been told by one of the company representatives that was in the meeting, that is incorrect. SANCHEZ: Did anybody fire back? Did anybody try and defend themselves? Was there someone armed? Was there a security guard called in to this disciplinary action?
ROOS: No, there wasn't. This is -- I mean, this is a disciplinary action that happens hundreds of times that we never saw this coming. You know, any time that there's an issue that we suspect that would cause us to have concern of anybody being harmed or anything, obviously that would have taken place and we would have been brought in. But we had no idea that this was going to happen.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you --
ROOS: He's very quiet and calm and during the meeting, didn't raise his voice. And was, like I said, calm.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you about his allegations now. First of all, was he a member of the union?
ROOS: Yes, he was.
SANCHEZ: Did you ever hear any complaints from him or did he file any complaints about the fact that his supervisors or any of his co-workers were using the "n" word or harassing him in any way racially?
ROOS: Actually, we -- I have never received a complaint from Omar in regards to that. It would come to me directly through the union, and I did not hear anything of that.
SANCHEZ: What do you make of the fact that -- what do you make of the fact that everybody who knew him is now saying that he was very much bothered by it? There are three allegations, one that the "n" word was being used against him. Two, that there was a hangman's noose scrawled on a bathroom. Certainly that would be something that somebody else would have noticed.
ROOS: I can't comment on that, because it was never brought to my attention or the union's attention.
SANCHEZ: Tell me what would have happened if -- tell me what would have happened if it would have been brought to your attention. And what do you do regularly to make sure that that type of language or that type of treatment is not taking place there at the workplace?
ROOS: The first step we would have done is gotten in touch with the company to make sure the individuals that were harassing any employee, either racially or sexually, is taken care of and taken out of the work environment. And then we have seminars to have the people go through so they know how to work and deal with these issues in the work environment.
SANCHEZ: You --
ROOS: Again, it was never brought to our attention by Mr. Thornton. SANCHEZ: No, I understand that. And by the way, and I probably should have said this at the beginning of this interview, my condolences to you and to yours, because I know you knew these guys, these eight men who have died, including Mr. Thornton, but -- is there anything -- is there anything you'd like to say on their behalf or on behalf of their families?
ROOS: My heart goes out to every one of them. They're like family to me. The whole Hartford Distributors is a family. It's a family-owned business. These guys work together for years. We've never had any issues like this ever in the past. It's just devastating. Lives throughout Connecticut are destroyed tonight.
SANCHEZ: Chris Roos is the secretary treasurer of the local teamsters there, 1035, where this senseless mass murder has taken place. Chris, is there anything I missed, anything you'd like to say before I -- before I let you go?
ROOS: No. I'm all set.
SANCHEZ: All right, Chris, I just wanted to get a chance to get the -- your side of the story as well. Seems like two stories that are coming together tonight. This confluence of stories. One about a man who was tortured by the way he says he was being treated, and one about a man who his supervisors say was stealing from the company and he was about to be fired and as a result it turned into this mass shooting that we've been telling you about.
This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST. More information on this story coming forth in just a little bit. And once again, we're going to let you hear this piece of tape of this interview with the mother of the girlfriend. We'll share parts of that once again and take it apart for you as more information on this story comes in.
This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not so much a house of worship as a house that we are going to do you in. We are going to introduce our view of Sharia and we're going to destroy the democratic way of life that New York represents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: By the way, there's one other story that we are going to touch on tonight because it's affecting so many people in New York City. A lot of people out there are very angry about this Islamic community center. I don't know if you've heard but some are calling it a mosque, some are calling it a community center. It's planned for a site just two blocks from where the World Trade Center once stood. When we come back, what you don't know about the story, and why it may not be as simple as it sounds. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: I can only imagine as you watch this newscast tonight that many of you are asking questions about workplace violence. And how this could possibly affect you, or your company, your loved ones. We've been thinking the same thing.
And coming up in just a little bit, I want you to know that Lou Palumbo is going to be joining us. He's going to be taking us through the questions, that, perhaps, should have been asked in this case. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20. It's not to be critical. It's just to ask questions that as a nation we all probably should come to grips with. So he'll join us in just a little bit. But before we do that, though, there is this segment that I've been wanting to explain to you because I think this is an important part of the national conversation as well.
Today, a city commission has given the go-ahead to build that Muslim cultural center in New York. Now, there's so much heat surrounding this story, so much passion, and before we go on, I want you to know what New Yorkers were saying today after a city commission gave the green light to go ahead and build this potentially 13-story community center.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why am I appalled? Because it's wrong and it's immoral, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a question of religious freedom in this country. We need to continue to follow the letter of law, to stand up for the values that make us strong. And that means allowing a group of moderate Muslims to do what they see fit in a building they purchased of their own accord.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not so much a house of worship as a house that we are going to do you in. We are going to introduce our view of Sharia and we're going to destroy the democratic way of life that New York represents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So many of you know the story. You know the setup. But as near as I can tell, I want to go through for most of you this. The most widely repeated arguments against building this community center. Argument one, it is a victory for the terrorists. It's a victory for the terrorists to build this Muslim community center just two blocks away from the place where Islamic fundamentalists struck our nation. Argument number two, this imam, the man behind the project, he's spoken out against America and may be sympathetic to Hamas. Argument three, we don't know where the funding is coming from. And who know, it might be coming from Islamic militants. OK. Those are the arguments. Those are the main talking points.
Joining me now from Washington is Cliff May. He's the president of the Foundation for American Democracies. And we're also going to be talking to Peter -- Peter Beinart here as well. He's going to be catching us up on the part of this conversation. All right, gentlemen, as we got breaking news, I want to make sure we got this segment in. Cliff, if you would, start us off. What's the argument that's making organizations like even the Anti- Defamation League, which has so long been the one organization in this country that has stood against anything that would look like -- like this, to actually go against this group that says they want to build understanding? Take it away.
CLIFF MAY, FND. FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: I think there are legitimate questions that have to be asked and ought to be answered about the funding and about the motives of the groups that are involved in this project and why I think that politicians and, by the way, journalists, need to be asking those questions. You're a journalist, Peter is a journalist. That means you've got a license to ask questions. Let's answer those questions before we give our approval to this project.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting --
MAY: You remember, I'm sure.
SANCHEZ: No, no --
MAY: I do remember Giuliani --
SANCHEZ: I hear what you're saying but since you said let's ask the questions, let's ask the questions then. Peter Beinart, I want to bring you in, senior political writer for the dailybeast.com. The questions are whether we really know where the funding is from in this case. Do you?
PETER BEINART, "THE DAILY BEAST": No, I don't know where the funding is. The process should be followed here for this mosque just like it would be followed for any church or synagogue. Again, I really have to say I wonder if this was a church or synagogue being built here, would Cliff be on TV saying, in kind of dark terms, we don't know where the money is coming from? Follow whatever procedure New York follows in every other circumstance for every other house of worship in its procedures and that's fine with me. But come on, let's be honest here. This is all about the fact that people want to kind of insinuate that people who are building a Muslim cultural center must have some -- have somehow a connection to terrorists. And I think that's really what's disturbing about it.
MAY: Peter -- Peter, if it were 10 blocks away, no one would be asking questions. The problem is that it's right there hard up against the site of an attack against the United States by people who claimed that they were acting on behalf of Islam. I would be distressed, I hope you will be distressed if we were to find out later that the funding for this project, $100 million plus yearly operating costs, were to come from people who were also out there financing terrorism every day.
Giuliani, when he was presented with a check for $10 million by a Saudi prince who said that America had to share some of the blame for 9/11, turned that check down. Was he bigoted in doing that? This imam has said that America should be seen as an accessory to the crime of 9/11. What's the difference?
BEINART: There's a vast difference, Chris, that you should know between people who criticize American policy, which we all have the right to do and still worship wherever we want and people who carry out acts of violence. Has anyone suggested this guy is in any way connected, been involved in violent actions? Let me just say clearly, if some guy --
MAY: You asked the questions. Peter, you --
BEINART: Yes. Do you have any evidence for this, Cliff?
MAY: I don't think you know enough. I don't think you enough about --
SANCHEZ: I can help a little bit here, guys. I can help a little bit here. Hold on just a moment. Let me just tell you what we've learned. The initiatives chairman is a fellow named Iman Feisal Abdul Rauf (ph). I believe we might be able to show him to you in just a little bit here. We know that he has denounced church bombings in Muslim countries. He's rejected Islamic triumphalism over Christians and Jews, and he's proposed to reclaim Islam from violent radicals such as Osama bin Laden. So he doesn't sound like a radical to me -- Cliff.
MAY: Again, he said 9/11, America was an accessory to that crime. He's written a book on Sharia which seems to suggest that Sharia, Islamic law, would be good for the United States as well and can be achieved by various means.
I don't think you, I don't think Peter has read any of his books. I don't think any of you have sent journalists into his mosque to see what kind of materials are there. I say as journalists and as politicians, why not do due diligence before giving approval? Why? And look, I would not necessarily be against a Shinto shrine at Pearl Harbor. But I do want to know that -- I want to know that this is to honor the victims of 9/11. I want to know that there are now people using Feisal (ph) perhaps in order to put up a monument for those who they believe won the battle of 9/11.
SANCHEZ: All right.
MAY: You should want to know that, too.
SANCHEZ: Peter, Peter, go ahead. Finish us off. Have you read his book?
BEINART: The best -- no, no, no, I have not read his books. But look, even if this guy -- you know, most of the evidence we have is this guy actually he wants to have Jews and Christians on the board of his community center for goodness sakes. But even if you could find statements that this guy has made that I might disagree with, it's a question you have the right in this country -- let me be clear -- you have the right in this country to have controversial views and still be able to have religious freedom. I thought that's what our struggle against Al Qaeda was all about. SANCHEZ: We're going to have to leave it there, gentlemen, because we got more information coming in on this breaking story that we've been following.
Cliff and Peter, I'm so glad that we got that segment in. I'm glad that you guys hung on for us and hopefully we'll be able to get you two together, and we'll continue this discussion because I don't think this story is going to be going away any time soon.
Lou Palumbo standing by now. He's going to take us through the issue of workplace violence and an important issue it is, especially learning what we have tonight about this situation in Manchester, Connecticut. Nine people dead. This is a special edition of RICK'S LIST. That is the killer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. It is a sad and a breaking news story that we're following for you tonight.
Kelly, if you've got some of the pictures that we've got coming in from the crime scene, let's share those now with some of our viewers. This is a horrible, horrible situation. You see those little -- you see those little setups that they have there outside? That's because some of the people, some of the eight people who were killed today tried to run out of the building. Some of them were found just outside the business there. This beer distributorship, where an employee, today, walked into this company. He was apparently disciplined. He was told that he could fire or -- that he would be fired or he could resign. Instead he took out a gun and shot and killed eight of his co-workers, injured two more.
Now setting this up, and this is where I want to bring in Lou Palumbo now, former police officer in the New York area, knows a lot about workplace violence. And this is an important question.
Lou, let me start you off this way. If, let's say it's a given that people there in the company, someone, knew that, A, he was bothered by what he called accusations of racism against him by colleagues, and, B, that they were going to be disciplining him on that morning and essentially telling him he was fired. My question to you is a simple one. Should this company have alerted the Manchester Police Department and let them know of this potentially volatile situation so that they could be on hand this morning when they did this?
LOU PALUMBO, ELITE INTELLIGENCE & PROTECTION AGENCY: Well, I think, Rick, clearly they have the prerogative of notifying the local jurisdiction, but I think what they would have, or should have done, which would have been far more prudent, was to retain the services of an organization such as mine. We've been involved in a number of terminations of employment. The reason being is because of the very volatile nature of the termination and because there's so much emotion attached to it.
You know, one of the first things that we do when we're contacted by a particular company is we contact human resources to try to determine exactly what transpired during the term of employment of a particular employee that they're looking to terminate. Was there volatility in his behavior? Did he react adversely to discipline? Did he overreact to situations? Was he overstimulated, overanimated?
SANCHEZ: Wow.
PALUMBO: There's a lot that you need to look into.
SANCHEZ: I didn't know -- I didn't even -- I'll be honest with you, I didn't even know, because we've been racing to put this together, Lou, that your company does something like this. And, frankly, I'll be honest with you, I didn't even know that there were companies that specialize on being called to be there on the days that employees were terminated. Let me ask you now that you've brought this up. What do you do? Do you show up on the day of the termination? Are you armed?
PALUMBO: Yes, quite frankly. I mean, everybody in my organization is an active or retired law enforcement agent. We are armed. As a policy, I usually don't tell the guys to bring guns but bring brains. But we would go there armed and we would, under no circumstance, allow this individual to travel about at any point in time once we made contact with him unsupervised, which is exactly what happened here. You need some things --
SANCHEZ: You mean, when he -- hold on. Just to clear our viewers up, you mean he was terminated, then he said, I need a moment. He went apparently to a drinking water fountain and that's when he came back with the gun. We don't know at this point, do you? Was he packing before he went to the water fountain or did he hide it behind the water fountain or something to that effect?
PALUMBO: I would say, quite frankly, you know, Rick, it's almost academic. You know, the fact of the matter is that he had in proximity to him a deadly weapon. And one of the things we would have done in the course of this interaction with him through his employer was question him as to whether or not he had a weapon. And quite frankly, I can only tell you, Rick, that I've done a number of these. We even did them for the FDIC back in the early '90s -- early to mid '90s down in California when they were going through downsizing.
SANCHEZ: Wow. All right. Hold on. We got to get this. We have to get a quick break in. More information coming in on this story. It's a special edition of RICK'S LIST. Lou Palumbo good enough to join us and take us through information that many of us didn't know about companies that actually are called by corporations when they're going to be doing terminations like this.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Here's what police are saying about this mass killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. JOE SAN ANTONIO, MANCHESTER POLICE DEPT.: At 7:30 this morning, we received a call of a shooter in the building at Hartford Distributors, Chapel Road. Our officers responded. They found a victim when they first entered the building. We treated it as an active shooter. There was a full response, mutual aid from surrounding towns and state police responded. The building was searched and the suspect was found. He was found shot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Here now, I want you to hear what the killer's girlfriend's mother told one of our correspondents who raced there to get this interview just before we went on the air. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joanne, your daughter, Christy, dated Omar for eight years. What can you tell me about the working conditions for Omar at the warehouse?
HANNAH: Well, third party, that's all I'm getting it from because I'm just getting it from what my daughter's told us, but he was being harassed, racially at work. Supposedly there was, which he had pictures on his cell phone, on his camera, of the cell phone, showing that there was the word (Expletive Deleted) written on the bathroom walls. There was a stick figure with a hangman noose on the bathroom walls, and comments had been being made to him. Like, he earned his way in that position because he was a (Expletive deleted). Supposedly he had gotten a voice recording of a supervisor that came in the bathroom. They didn't know he was in the bathroom stall. He told my daughter to be quiet and listen, and he taped and how my daughter verify that when the supervisor that came in the bathroom was saying, we need to get rid of this (Expletive Deleted) out of here, referring to Omar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So once again -- once again, two different versions of the story coming from family members and people who knew him. A little different story coming from those who worked in the company and members of the union.
So here's where we stand right now. Nine people dead including the killer. Two people are injured. And obviously on this night many, many, many unanswered questions.
We'll stay on this story. Thanks for being with us during this special edition of RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez.
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