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Rick's List
Manhunt For Escaped Prisoner Continues; Fidel Castro Speaks Out on Nuclear Tensions
Aired August 09, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: There's this really strange thing going on at JFK tonight. A flight attendant has opened the chute to a plane and jumped out. And there's this video that Sarah Palin's handlers probably don't want you to watch, but we're going to show it to you. Here's the LIST.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Here's what's making the LIST in prime time.
JACK WASHBURN, STEPFATHER OF PRISON ESCAPEE: Charles McCluskey, if you're watching this, give yourself up.
SANCHEZ: An escaped prisoner allegedly kills vacationers. Now he and his girlfriend think they're Bonnie and Clyde.
You think you're Bonnie and Clyde. You're not -- no comparison. You're scum.
SANCHEZ: Wait until you hear what a U.S. Marshal says about a killer on the loose in Yellowstone.
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: I'm going to return to the ADL their handsome medal and the generous honorarium that came with it.
SANCHEZ: How is that for a bold statement, a journalistic shot across the bow aimed at the Anti-Defamation League's credibility?
Fidel Castro says the U.S. is stoking nuclear tensions. I will tell you why he should know. Calling him out.
SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: Oh, my goodness.
SANCHEZ: Must-see television: Sarah Palin caught on camera being Sarah Palin.
And this firefighter got $12 million because he says he was left practically invalid. Really? Really?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. So glad that you're back here with us.
And we're going to be getting to the story that is coming out of JFK in just a little while.
But first the top story on the LIST involves a killer on the loose near the nation's best-known national park. This is filled -- this story is filled with twists and turns, not to mention some twisted family relationships to boot.
Developing right now -- look at these two. U.S. Marshals are telling me tonight they need your help finding these two before they kill somebody. Again, this is John McCluskey and that is Cass Welch, who is more than a girlfriend. More on that in just a minute.
First, let's go back 10 days, shall we? Wire-cutters are tossed over a fence at an Arizona private prison. You got that? Three men use these wire-cutters to cut their way out and join the woman, Cass Welch, on the run.
Well, police say the first thing that they do is they hijack a man and take off in his 18-wheeler and they head to Phoenix, Arizona, where then they get themselves a car. One of the inmates takes off on his own and is caught in Colorado in a high-speed chase with police, where gunfire is exchanged. The rest of the crew -- look at that picture right there. You see that? The rest of the crew heads to New Mexico and there they befriend a couple of campers.
Police suspect they kill them and then they burn their camper. With the dead couple's car, the two escapees and their companion head to Wyoming now, touching off a manhunt there at Yellowstone National Park, as aforementioned.
Today, one of them has been captured. Tracy Province is his name. He was spotted and picked up by police in Meeteetse, Wyoming. All right, so where does that leave us, folks?
That leaves John McCluskey and his fiancee Casslyn Welch, on the run. She is not only his fiancee. She's also his first cousin. And guess what? They also think together that they are Bonnie and Clyde. You think I'm kidding? Here is McCluskey's stepfather.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WASHBURN: Charles McCluskey, if you're watching this, give yourself up. It's a matter of time. You will never realize what you have done to me and your mother.
You think you're Bonnie and Clyde. You're not -- no comparison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, that is stepfather Jack. And Jack, by the way, is no mood to get jacked around. Listen to what else he says to the escapees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WASHBURN: I haven't got that long to live. But if I could ever see you, what you did, I will shoot you in front of them and serve my time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That brings us to today and a big break for the feds. They caught one of the escapees this morning outside of church in a small town in northwestern Wyoming. They are still searching for the would-be Bonnie and Clyde.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: David Gonzales is the U.S. Marshal for Arizona and he joins us now by phone.
Mr. Gonzales, thank you, sir, for taking time to talk to us.
You think these guys, McCluskey and his girlfriend/first cousin, are really delusional?
DAVID GONZALES, U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE: Yes, I think that's the indication we're getting. I think they have nothing to lose. He -- you know, McCluskey was in prison for attempted homicide. He has obviously -- he has been linked, through forensics, to the murder of the -- the -- Mr. and Mrs. Haas.
SANCHEZ: Those are the tourists that just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time while they were vacationing. Apparently, they made friends with them, and then they -- they offed them. They killed them, huh?
GONZALES: Exactly.
And as you -- as you were discussing there, this case is -- is something else. It changes by the minute. But we are convinced that John McCluskey and Casslyn Welch are not going to go down lightly.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me ask you then the real, real obvious question. If I were vacationing right now in Yellowstone National Park or anywhere near there, or, worse, if I had loved ones who were vacationing there, like my kids or something, my teenage sons or something, boy, I -- would I have reason to be worried?
GONZALES: Well, there's always concerns. But we believe that McCluskey and Welch are out of the park area and are probably more centrally located in the Wyoming area and might be moving a little bit east. So...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, what are you doing to tell people just how dangerous these folks are who might accidentally come, you know, across them?
GONZALES: Well, we...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I mean, they have already killed two people.
GONZALES: Absolutely. And, believe me, we are very aware of that. And -- we have -- we are putting out information. We're talking to the media. We're working with our state and local partners in every area that -- that we're tracking them to.
SANCHEZ: Hmm.
GONZALES: We have put out all the stops nationally on these -- on these individuals. And we're going to work around the clock until we throw them in jail where they belong.
SANCHEZ: I know there's BOLOs out on them as we speak. Where was the last place you think you know they were?
GONZALES: In -- you know, in the central Wyoming -- Wyoming area. We -- we knew obviously -- we had put out that they were in the national park area. And that's where -- right outside where -- where Province was arrested. And it was based on media reports that -- like -- like what you guys put out.
SANCHEZ: Hmm. Yes.
GONZALES: A person recognized them, which we -- we really appreciate it.
But we are tracking these individuals through a variety of ways. And -- and we just hope that we can get...
SANCHEZ: Hmm.
GONZALES: ... them as quickly as possible before anything else happens.
SANCHEZ: Take -- take a good look, folks. If you guys are at home -- Roger, put them up once again -- if you are watching this newscast right now, and you see that man on the left, that John McCluskey, or his girlfriend/cousin -- now, keep in mind, they're not going to look like that. He is probably trying to grow facial hair. Who knows what he's trying to do to disguise himself. And so is she.
What do you want these folks to do, Mr. Gonzales? What do you want these folks to do if they see them? Give -- tell -- tell -- tell Americans what they should do.
GONZALES: Two things. If you do see them, call 911 immediately. If you have information about them that is not an emergency-type nature, call our 24-hour task force office that's been set up specifically for this case at 602-542-1212.
SANCHEZ: David Gonzales is a U.S. Marshal. He needs your help. And he's been good enough to join us here live to take us through this story.
Mr. Marshal, you're very kind -- pardon me -- Mr. Gonzales, you're very kind to take the time to talk to us. Let us know and we will be happy to do whatever we can to help you with this investigation.
GONZALES: Well -- no, thank you. The media has been great and was directly responsible for the arrest of Province.
SANCHEZ: All right. My thanks to you as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY BROWN (D), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: What happened in Bell is a function of secrecy, a function of being behind a screen of obscurity and then people just lining their pockets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Lining their pockets with your money, by the way. Why are you paying for other people's right to retire at 47 or 50 or even younger in some cases, so they can retire young? Why are you paying for public workers' pensions? Why do you pay for some people's health benefits?
If you're starting to get upset about this, guess what? Maybe you should be. That's next. Stay right there. This is your national conversation. This is your LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST.
And this is important. And it's something that I want to share with you. The governor of New Jersey is developing a bit of a pit bull reputation for watching over his taxpayers' money. Yes, that's the big guy right there. You know what? Good for him.
So, what's happening in California and how often are Americans picking up the tab for public workers? How often do you pay for their pensions? How often do you pay their -- you know what, hey, Kelly, come on back to me if you would. Thanks. How often do you pay for their health benefits?
These are people who retire 20 or 30 years before you do and get paid very handsomely to relax while you work. I know we threw you off a little bit with that video and you had no idea what we're even showing you. So, trust me, I will get to that in just a little bit.
Meanwhile, I want to show you something, because I was just asking this question, right? This is a very important question. I mean, there are some people who are retiring when they're 45, 47 years old. They're on the public dole. And you're paying for it and you're wondering why.
Well, look at this. We're looking for people right now who actually have information on the stories that we tell you. That's how we use Twitter. This is a financial analyst. Look what he just tweeted us. "Huge battle looms over public pensions. Who will -- who should foot the bill? Public pension plans are $1 trillion to $3 trillion over" -- let me read that again, because there's another tweet coming after it.
"Public pension plans are $1 trillion to $3 trillion underfunded, underfunded." Thank you, Angie.
Now, that takes us to the video we were trying to show you a little while ago. This is the Bell, California, case. It's what sparked this debate. And now California Attorney General Jerry Brown, who is also running for governor, we know, announced he is expanding his investigation.
Remember this? These are citizens coming out and screaming at these guys. Who are they screaming at? Well, the same person Jerry Brown is now addressing. He's ordering Jerry Brown is, Bell officials to turn over financial records, and he will call some witnesses in to testify.
Look at this. Well, we told you about City Manager Robert Rizzo, right? He was earning over $787,000 a year. He has since resigned. Well, "The L.A. Times" has analyzed his benefits package and found that he was actually making twice that much when you throw in his retirement plan, his health care benefits and his vacation days. And guess who's paying?
And take a look at this. Bell's director of administration services -- this is the person who usually overseas office staff, facilities, custodial operations -- he was earning $422,000 this year. And the director of general services makes $421,402 a year, this in a working-class city with low-income residents.
David John is with the Heritage Foundation, who looks into these types of problems.
David, thanks so much for being with us.
I get the feeling -- I get the feeling that Bell, California, is not the only place where this thing is going on. Am I right?
DAVID JOHN, SENIOR FELLOW, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Oh, absolutely.
I mean, Bell, California, carries this to a level that has never been seen before, probably since the Romans. But there are a lot of other cities and states out there that are paying their people tremendous amounts.
They're allowing them to retire at an amazingly young age and in many cases they don't even know how much the promises that they have made are going to cost the taxpayers, because it's you and I that are going to end up paying this.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: This is the problem. This is the problem. Do you know of another city out there?
JOHN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Can you give us other examples, so our viewers are a little more in the know about this?
JOHN: Well, let's look at San Diego, a few miles to the south there. San Diego had a situation where they were running two pension plans at once.
Now, if you don't fund a pension plan, basically, you're going to have to come up with more and more and more money to pay those benefits eventually. That -- San Diego was supposedly putting money into the pension plan, and then they were pulling the same money out of the pension plan and using it to give bonuses to their employees. If you look at cities in Minnesota...
SANCHEZ: Nice deal if you can get it. Go ahead. Give us another one. Tell us about Minnesota. Go ahead.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHN: Well, there's a city in Minnesota which finally added up all the pension and health care problem -- or promises that it had made over the years. They had never bothered to do this before. They just assumed that the money would be there.
Well, they discovered that, after they paid those pensions and health care benefits, basically they didn't have any money left over at all, so there was nothing for schools, nothing for police, nothing for fire departments, et cetera. And it just goes on and on and on.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But here's the deal. Look, a lot of these folks who are on the public dole, a lot of these people who are public workers, good people, schoolteachers -- I can name every single one of my 12 teachers when I was in school, worked hard, did a good job. Police officers, my little brother is a police officer. Some city officials who do real good work out there and take care of the cities.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHN: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: The problem is when they're taken care of by the taxpayer, it's real easy for them to create systems for themselves, like having their benefits paid for, like having -- I have got to pay for my health care. Why shouldn't they? I'm not going to retire when I'm 50 years old. Why should they?
I'm not going to have 80 percent of my pay given to me when I finally retire. I can if I make good investments, but why should they? And that's the question Americans are asking, right?
JOHN: And that's the question they need to ask. That's the question they need to have answered. And actually the first question they need to have answered right now is, what promises have you made that I'm going to have to pay for? How much is that going to cost me? And what can we do to bring that back into line? Because, let's face it, the economy is not great right now and tax collections aren't going to go up. That's the question we have got to answer.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
Good for the man in New Jersey who is actually calling some of these people to task and saying, look, I know it's tough. I love you all, but you're just going to have to cooperate and bite the bullet as well, because we just can't afford this anymore, not as a populace, not as a country.
David John, it's good to have you as a guest. Come on back, all right?
JOHN: Thanks, Rick. Love to.
SANCHEZ: Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZAKARIA: I hope this might spur them to see that they have made a mistake and to return to their historic robust defense of freedom of religion in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: He's calling somebody out here. Did you see this? If you're like me, Fareed Zakaria's show, "GPS," is appointment viewing every Sunday afternoon, which is why I just about flipped when I was watching and I saw him tell the Anti-Defamation League what they can to do with the award that they had given him -- what they can to do with the award that they had given him.
This is trending. And it's next.
Also, have you seen Sarah Palin unscripted lately? No, most people haven't either. Well, guess what? You're about to. Stay right there. Brooke Baldwin is on her way. And we're going to have this for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Let's take the two-shot. Time for trending.
I told our viewers at the very top of this, Brooke, about the situation that was taking place at JFK. A flight attendant apparently goes berserk, opens a chute and flies out of the plane.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it is nuts. It is big- time trending and it's generating buzz as we speak. Let me tell you about it. Apparently, this flight attendant with JetBlue is like up to here I guess with his job, right? According to a source with knowledge of this investigation -- I'm talking about Steven Slater. Here he is on the perp walk tonight.
He's a flight attendant with JetBlue. He got on the plane intercom -- folks, imagine this happening to you -- cursed at the passengers today, and that's not all. Grabbed some beer before he popped the lever on the plane's emergency chute and slid on out.
SANCHEZ: Just took off.
BALDWIN: Just took off. The plane -- there's the plane. It had just landed at, like you said, JFK in New York. He's arrested. He's charged with criminal mischief, reckless endangerment, and criminal trespass.
SANCHEZ: Oh, my God. This is crazy. Do they have any idea what caused him to lose it?
BALDWIN: Here -- it's an excellent question. Here's what we're hearing.
Apparently, as the plane was taxiing, there was a passenger on the plane, reached up trying to grab some stuff out of the overhead compartment. And I think he said, no, no, no, you need to stay with your seat belt fastened.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: The guy probably said no.
BALDWIN: The guy probably or gal probably said no, a little bit of back and forth. Heated is the safe way we will say it, I think some F's thrown around.
The source also said the police wasn't called until nearly half- an-hour into the incident.
SANCHEZ: Oh, my goodness.
BALDWIN: So, here's the thing. This is the lovely part about Twitter. I actually tweeted to JetBlue and my question was this. Take a look. So, does the flight attendant, Steven Slater, still have a job? Just thought I would ask, right? How long has he worked for you?
Here's what they tweeted back: "We're working with the FAA and the Port Authority in New York/New Jersey to investigate. At no time was security or safety of our customers or crew members at risk."
So, I thought, I'm not done with you, JetBlue. I'm going to ask you this. This is a good question from one of our fans. What about the passenger who has not been identified, by the way, who perhaps started this had whole back and forth?
And JetBlue told me, "We will not comment further on ongoing investigations."
SANCHEZ: That's amazing.
BALDWIN: We will leave it there. I'm going to have more tomorrow, I have a feeling.
SANCHEZ: I keep a list of all the different folks that we follow in the news on any given day, and JetBlue is on that list. Good usage of the lists.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Well done.
BALDWIN: Airlines list. We're on it.
SANCHEZ: That's the airlines list.
All right, what else you got?
BALDWIN: "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS," I know it's appointment viewing for you every Sunday afternoon.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: This is our host and also he's a "Newsweek" columnist. Big announcement yesterday on the show. And this is why it's trending. He's actually giving back this award, this First Amendment award that the Anti-Defamation League gave him about five years ago.
Why, you ask? Because the ADL -- you know the story. You have been covering it. They opposed the community center, the building of that Islamic community center near ground zero. Here is Fareed from Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZAKARIA: Given the position that they have taken on a core issue of religious freedom in America, I cannot in good conscience keep that award.
So, this week, I'm going to return to the ADL their handsome medal and the generous honorarium that came with it.
I hope this might spur them to see that they have made a mistake and to return to their historic robust defense of freedom of religion in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Wow.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting. That's real interesting. When I was -- I remember, when I was in Miami, there was an ADL chapter there, which I think is one of the finest in the country, and there wasn't a day that I didn't either use them or call them... (CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: Huge Jewish civil rights group.
SANCHEZ: Well, they're just a civil rights group. These people defend everyone and have always done so. It's the first time I have ever heard their credibility be questioned as it has in this case, and then Fareed just took it to a whole new level this weekend. That's interesting.
BALDWIN: And ADL already reacting to Fareed. Let me get the statement for you. Here's what they're saying, from the director, nonetheless, saying he is saddened, stunned and somewhat speechless by Fareed's decision to give the award back.
SANCHEZ: By the way, this controversy still going on. And one of the biggest proponents for not having the mosque there is George Pataki. He's the former governor of the state of New York, as you know. Tomorrow, he's going to be right here.
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: You got him.
SANCHEZ: And he and I are going to have a very good discussion about this, because he has a very pointed point of view, if I can use the word doubly.
BALDWIN: Pointed points of view.
SANCHEZ: Pointed point of view.
BALDWIN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: He's very directed. Thank you, Brooke. We appreciate you coming here.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Let's do it again.
Also, you know what else is trending on this night? Have you seen this, Brooke?
BALDWIN: No, I actually haven't.
SANCHEZ: You haven't seen this video?
BALDWIN: No.
SANCHEZ: It's video of Sarah Palin. This is the video that people are talking about out there tonight. It's Palin getting pushback from an Alaskan woman. Top women bloggers are tweeting me tonight about this, so they have really put me on to it.
BALDWIN: Really? SANCHEZ: Here is a taste of their sentiment. Ready? This is from my bloggers list, another one of the lists that we keep.
"Palin's M.O. so sad. Treats real questions of Alaska voters with sarcasm and condescension." That's interesting. That's from PunditMom.
Here's another one. "Ooh, you think I'm a celebrity?" See, that's what Palin asks during this exchange that you're going to be watching here in just a little bit. "Is this really what she as a politician aspires to? What happened to country first?"
And then also from our bloggers list tonight, "This lady tells it like it is," referring to the lady who Sarah Palin confronts. "Sarah P.'s interests are more aligned with real housewives than public service."
So, this is interesting, people on both sides, and you're going to see the video yourself. But there's no question it's being blogged about.
BALDWIN: I have read about it. Haven't seen it.
SANCHEZ: It's being written about. And everybody out there is talking about it. You ready?
BALDWIN: I'm ready.
SANCHEZ: Let's go to the tease. Now take a look at this video. This firefighter said that he was all but invalid from an accident. Oh, yes? So how is he doing that little jig right there, huh? Hello, Mr. Hula Hula.
And there's more. This is RICK'S LIST. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Now for the story that many of you have been tweeting about and asking me about. Here it is, the story about the fireman, his hula dance and the millions and millions and millions of dollars that he got in workman's compensation.
In 2009, Mark Jones, he won a lawsuit against Seattle for getting hurt falling through a hole in a firehouse pole in that building that you're looking at right there. That's a firehouse.
Jones got almost $13 million. And then a video surfaces. Are you ready to take a look at this video? Because it seems to conflict with the story. Here it is. Let's go.
Yes, that's Mark Jones playing horseshoes. That's Mark Jones doing a little victory dance, kind of a big guy version of a hula dance. And guess what? Here is Mark Jones chopping some wood. Looks like he's moving pretty well, doesn't it, to you, I mean? Just asking.
Now the city of Seattle wants that judgment overturned, because Jones said after his accident that he felt like an 80-year-old man. Well, that video seems to show that he doesn't dance or chop wood like an 80-year-old. And that's a problem.
But here's what Jones' lawyer is saying.
First of all, we asked him to come on, and he refused, but he did tell us that the money was awarded in part because of brain injuries, not just his physical limitations.
We will keep asking. What do you think? Let me know on Twitter again.
The Taliban as bad as some of their actions seem to indicate of late, what do we compare them to? I mean, are they like Stalin's purges? Are they like the Khmer Rouge? Or do we just admit there are bad people out there and we can't police the entire world? What do you say? That's ahead.
Also, the storm chaser who got just a little too close for comfort. Watch it. Look at this thing. It's a monster. It's in "Fotos." We'll be right back with RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I keep lists, lots of Twitter lists of people who are in the know. I'm digging into my Af-Pak list here, Afghanistan- Pakistan list, to bring you information you may need to know. This is a very well-known, respected renowned ambassador who served in several Middle Eastern countries for the United States. To the Twitter board we go.
Look what he's saying. He says 62 percent of Americans doubt the Afghan war. Petraeus is rightly focused on the Taliban. We still owe them retribution. That's Ambassador Edward Walker. Our thanks to him.
When I played college football, our team had all sorts of rituals. We put the new guys on the team through. I laugh thinking of some of them, but I don't ever remember anything as embarrassing or silly as what I'm about to show you. Are you ready? Are you ready? Are you really ready? Because it's time for "Fotos."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah, dios mio.
SANCHEZ: A Friar Tuck hairdo? Are you kidding me, Tim Tebow? You let them do this to you? They cut out the top of his hair and the sides and they gave him a Friar Tuck hairdo and stash/burn/beard. He should get a 15-yard penalty just for this. Proof that no rookie is too good to be spared a little hazing. The Denver Broncos welcomed their first-round pick from Florida to the locker room with this very special haircut. I'm sure Tebow is wearing his new Broncos helmet every chance he gets. I would. Shocking video from a storm chaser. Watch as this tornado tears through Wilkin County in western Minnesota over the weekend. The twister touched down near the North Dakota state line ripping through an open field before swallowing a house and spinning out debris. The home was empty at the time, thank goodness.
And somebody warn Snooki. Get out of the way, Snooki. A shark came ashore in New Jersey and there it is. And people are screaming. You hear them. Luckily, it was just a little guy, a young blue shark who swam onto a beach briefly before returning to sea.
You know sharks eat snook, right? They do. Forget it. That's a Miami joke. Only Carl Hiassen would probably understand it. That's "Fotos." And you can see them all for yourself, by the way, at my blog, CNN.com/ricksanchez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah, dios mio.
SANCHEZ: Why Fidel Castro is the last guy in the world to be talking about threats of nukes. I remember what he probably wishes you didn't, and I'm going to tell you what that is.
Also, the Taliban about to become even more brutal and if so, does that mean we have to stay and pay longer? You're going to hear somebody who says just that.
What do you say? It's part of our national conversation. It's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Here's a list of stories that we've rounded up for you on this night. We call this our "Roundup List."
Number one, California Democrat Maxine Waters hit with three counts of ethics violations by a House Ethics Committee today. She's accused of trying to nail down federal assistance for a bank that had financial ties to her husband. Waters has denied the charges. Says that she will fight them in a hearing this fall.
Number two, Honda recalls 383,000 older models including Accords and Civics. Drivers were complaining about worn-out ignition mechanisms which make it too easy for the keys to come out and the car can roll away when it is not in park.
And number three, in a move to restructure the Pentagon's enormous budget in this flailing economy, Defense Secretary Bill Gates announced for deep cuts today, including getting rid of the United Joint Forces Command. Eliminating the command made up of soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines would mean the loss of 1,000 jobs and has already been criticized by some -- some in Congress.
We're continuing that conversation tonight because it's a subject that is topping our terrorism list. What is going on with the Taliban lately? Are they getting even more violent? Some would say that they are. Some that you're about to meet. I want you to take a look at these pictures. These are the faces of charity in Afghanistan. That's Cheryl Beckett. That's Glen Lapp. That's Dr. Thomas Grams, Tom Little, Dan Terry, Brian Carderelli. They were all killed by the Taliban in northeastern Afghanistan. These six Americans were on a mission of mercy to provide medical care for the poor and (INAUDIBLE). They were among 10 aid workers marched into a forest at gunpoint, robbed and then shot execution style.
What is the Taliban saying about this incident? What is the Taliban saying? They're saying, yes, we did it. Yes, we did it. They're admitting to it.
This next story is mind bogging. In Taliban custom, a woman who was once married should not have relations with another man. Well, one widow was accused of breaking the rules and was executed for it. Lashed 200 times and then shot. And get this, she was pregnant when she was killed. And there's this, and I've got to warn you the next picture is kind of tough to look at, but it's another horrific example of the treatment of women of Afghanistan have to face at the hands of the Taliban.
You've seen this. 18-year-old Aisha (ph). She made the cover of "Time" magazine after her nose and ears were cut off. Her crime -- running away from her abusive husband. Aisha says her husband mutilated her with approval from the Taliban after she tried to escape from him and his family. She is now in the U.S. to have reconstructive surgery.
This "Time" article asks the question what happens if we leave Afghanistan? The one that has her picture up on the cover. This is a question I asked Michael Hirsh. He's a senior editor of "Newsweek" magazine. And I asked Zainab Salbi. She is a president and CEO of Women for Women International.
Zainab, let me start with you. Would you tell Michael and I and tell our viewers if these incidents that I just shared with our viewers are common or they're the kinds of things that we can always pick out and you can find atrocities in just about every country in the world including from time to time even our own. Why is Afghanistan different?
ZAINAB SALBI, PRES. & CEO, WOMEN FOR WOMEN INTL. (via telephone): Well, they're actually not only common in here but they -- the Taliban are seen as becoming much more aggressive than their past tactics. They are attacking women in particular. They are attacking women's organizations, aid workers. Even their own elders are being attacked and any civilian family members of government are being attacked. So it's very much inundated. Six years in Afghanistan --
SANCHEZ: Why? Well, let me stop you because you're making some news here. You're on the air here on CNN saying not only are they doing it a lot. Lately, they're doing it more. Why are they doing it more lately?
SALBI: Well, they're absolutely doing it much more lately. In the last seven months, for example, there has been 1,325 civilian casualties the Taliban are accused of killing 67.5 percent of them. The reason for why as its analyzed in Afghanistan is two reasons. One is, definitely the negotiations with them. And women are one on the list on the negotiations that tactics between the Afghan government or the international community and the Taliban and there's definitely a feeling that women are going to be sacrificed, and with that there is a reflection of much more aggression by the Taliban against women.
The second part is Pakistan support of Taliban and the lack of accountability of Pakistan for their support of Taliban, they're arming them, they're funding them, being a country that is actually funded most by Americans and supported by Americans. So there are two reasons.
SANCHEZ: Wait. Wait, listen to what you just said. Listen you what you just said. You're saying that they're feeling a little more onerous because they're getting the support of Pakistan which is a country which, by the way, has the support of the United States. This is exactly where we want to bring in Michael Hirsh.
Michael, I'm telling you, Americans have to be sitting there scratching their heads trying to figure this one out.
MICHAEL HIRSH, SR. EDITOR, "NEWSWEEK": Well, look, first of all, I don't dispute that they've gotten more aggressive particularly as it seemed that the U.S. offensive there in Marjah and elsewhere, the U.S. military presence has faltered. There's also no doubt that elements of the Pakistani intelligence and defense apparatus are helping or encouraging the Afghan Taliban, but it's not quite the same thing as saying that, you know, Pakistan, which we're supporting, is directly supporting the Taliban. It's a much more complicated picture than that. But there's no question that they are becoming more aggressive. Even while we have to understand that, look, this has always been a brutal movement. At the same time I think you have to say, look, as horrific as that picture in "Time" magazine was, that's not the reason the U.S. is in Afghanistan. The reason the U.S. is in Afghanistan is prevent an Al Qaeda-type attack from recurring again using that country as a base. We're not there to transform the morals (ph) of the country.
SANCHEZ: There's only like 50, you know, Al Qaeda guys left in Afghanistan so then again, we scratch our head and we say, well, are we there to police and keep guys from doing horrible things to women or to keep ourselves from being attacked?
Let me bring Zainab back into this argument. What's the best argument that you would make to Americans who are watching this newscast now for why we should continue to send billions and billions if not a trillion dollars to Afghanistan for the next decade or two decades to stay there?
SALBI: Well, there are few reasons. There's one, the moral argument. And I actually disagree with Dr. Hirsh. I think women were actually claimed and used as being seen as one of the reasons why America went to Afghanistan although there are many other reasons including stopping Al Qaeda. This was declared in many statements. We cannot abandon women. And we are seen as in the process of abandoning women when there are negotiations with the Taliban. And --
SANCHEZ: Would you say -- would you say Americans should stay there if for no other reason so that more of these atrocities don't happen? Would you say that?
SALBI: I think America needs to prolong its stay in Afghanistan not only for the protection of women and human rights there, but also for its own national security.
SANCHEZ: OK. We'll leave it at that.
SALBI: The regional stabilization of India and Pakistan --
SANCHEZ: No.
SALBI: -- and for many other reasons beyond women's rights although women's rights is a very important element as well.
SANCHEZ: We certainly get that. Michael Hirsh, Zainab Salbi, my thanks to both of you for joining us in this conversation as America struggles with this perplexing situation.
He is the ultimate outsider. He hates the United States. And he says the United Nations could trigger a nuclear holocaust. Who do you think is making tonight's list that you don't want to be on? Hint- hint.
Also, what Sarah Palin's camp might not want you to see, might not want you to see. Well, we've got it. And it's an eyebrow raising exchange between the former Alaskan governor and a schoolteacher in Alaska. Notice what the sign says? We'll tell you. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Predicting the end of the world is nothing new. Religions do it. Scientists do it. Even Hollywood likes to get in on the fun several times a year. There's an outrageous new prediction from a very familiar name. This is a guy I've covered my entire life. Here's a list you don't want to be on.
Wow. Fidel Castro makes my list tonight. He addressed Cuban lawmakers for the first time since getting sick four years ago and, guess what, he's kind of making sense on this. That's right. Here's what the former Cuban president said. The new U.N. sanctions against Iran and its nuclear program could trigger a nuclear holocaust.
OK. How soon, you might ask? The Cuban premier, September, when the U.N. resolution calls for the U.S. to inspect Iranian ships. Castro called on world leaders to pressure President Obama and said the fate of the entire planet rests in the hands of our commander in chief.
OK. He hates the U.S. And we all know that but he's right. World leaders should check each other on this issue because it does affect the entire planet. Castro is the ultimate outsider. So the fact that he's warning the world about nukes isn't all bad.
Here's what is all bad. You, Mr. Castro, are the last person in the world to be talking about using nukes irresponsibly because if it were up to you we'd be on our third nuclear holocaust by now.
Let me tell you about something he's probably that you have forgotten. Well, guess, what, I haven't. During the Cuban missile crisis in 1962, Fidel Castro told Nikita Khrushchev and the Soviets to launch a nuclear attack on the U.S. That's right. The guy warning us about using nukes was whispering like the "Great Gazoo" did in Fred Flintstone's ear at the time except he was in Nikita's ear saying something like nuke them, nuke them.
Wait, there's more. According to a Pentagon report, Castro asked again in the 1980s for the Soviets to use the bomb against us. Nuke them. Nuke them. So Castro's message is not a bad one. The problem here is the messenger and his lack of credibility. And that's why Fidel Castro on this day makes the list. "The List That U Don't Want 2 Be On."
Ahead, the video that Sarah Palin's entourage does not want you to see. They try actually blocking the camera when the governor goes mano-a-mano with a schoolteacher who doesn't like Palin's fame trajectory. Listen to this. Wait, we'll have it after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST. So glad you're here.
Sarah Palin, she facebooks. She travels with handlers to craft her populous message. And she's a prolific tweet. That's what you call people who tweet like me. In fact, here's her latest just today. Ready?
"Yes. Flew four zones to Karen Handel 'Bring it On' rally today." This is in Georgia, by the way. "Met awesome friends of Georgia's next governor. Bold, independent, fiscal restraint record."
Good politicians know how to appear like just plain folks, real people, right? You know, like the plumber or the schoolteacher down the street. That's their job, politicians to look just like them. But look what happens in this unscripted encounter between Palin and a fellow Alaskan. Watch what happens when Palin asked the woman what she does for a living and the woman says she's a schoolteacher. Watch closely.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN (R), FMR. ALASKA GOVERNOR: What do you do?
KATHLEEN GUSTAFSON, TEACHER: I'm a teacher.
PALIN: Oh. GUSTAFSON: Also, I have a few other jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I know that went by kind of quickly so I want to show it to you again. Here it is again. Watch the reaction when the woman says she's a teacher, which last time I checked is an honorable profession, right?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN (R), FMR. ALASKA GOVERNOR: What do you do?
KATHLEEN GUSTAFSON, TEACHER: I'm a teacher.
PALIN: Oh.
GUSTAFSON: Also, I have a few other jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Back now to Sarah Palin whose presentation is carefully if not brilliantly handled. Here she is today in Georgia pitching a gubernatorial candidate. This is what she was tweeting about here, right? This is the just folks Palin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN (R), FMR. ALASKA GOVERNOR: So the name hot-lanta (ph), that has a whole new meaning for me. It is a long way from the Arctic Circle, let me tell you. Let me tell you all. I'll try to remember that, you all. OK.
I told Piper, I said, remember, we can't say you guys when we're here. We say you all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Now back to the schoolteacher. As it happens, the teacher had heard that Palin was visiting Homer, Alaska, and she hung up a sign to greet her. It read worst governor ever. As you watch this video, you'll see that Palin's husband and security handler are trying to block the camera. The woman's name is Kathleen Gustafson. This is raw video.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARAH PALIN (R), FMR. ALASKA GOVERNOR: What's up?
KATHLEEN GUSTAFSON, TEACHER: You swore on your precious bile that you would uphold the interests of this state, and then when cash was waved in front of your face, you quit.
PALIN: Oh, you wanted me to be your governor.
GUSTAFSON: You left us. Yes. PALIN: I'm honored.
GUSTAFSON: Well, I wanted you to honor your responsibilities. That is what I wanted. And to be a part of the political process instead of becoming a celebrity so that you could -- and if that is the best you can do, then good for you. If that's the best you can do.
PALIN: Here's the deal. Here's the deal. That's what I'm out there fighting for Americans to be able to have a constitution protected so that we can have free speech and also --
GUSTAFSON: In what way are you fighting for that?
PALIN: Oh, my goodness.
GUSTAFSON: In what way?
PALIN: To elect candidates who understand the constitution, to protect our military interests so that we can keep on fighting for our constitution that will protect some of the freedoms that evidently are important to you too.
GUSTAFSON: By using your celebrity status, certainly not by political status.
PALIN DAUGHTER: How is she a celebrity?
GUSTAFSON: Well, you're certainly not --
PALIN: I'm honored. No, she thinks I'm a celebrity.
GUSTAFSON: You're certainly not representing the state of Alaska any longer even though --
PALIN DAUGHTER: She's representing United States.
GUSTAFSON: Yes, I know, you belong to America now, and that suits me just fine. Yes.
PALIN: What do you do?
GUSTAFSON: I'm a teacher.
PALIN: Oh.
GUSTAFSON: Also, I have a few other jobs, married to a commercial fisherman. And so I fish.
PALIN: Oh, that's cool. So am I. I married to -- we probably have a lot in common.
GUSTAFSON: You know, I think that we do.
PALIN: Hi. Are we on video?
GUSTAFSON: Too bad. I'm more of a still camera girl myself. I am, I am. I will tell you I'm very pleased to meet you.
PALIN: I'm honored to meet you. I really am. And, so we both agree on the freedom of speech and the --
GUSTAFSON: Yes, we do.
PALIN: You know, the protection of that. So, no I and, you know, best of everything to you, too. And yes.
GUSTAFSON: Thank you for coming over.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Sarah Palin, by the way, obviously didn't want this video shown. In fact, she pretty much says so.
Now as we go to her Facebook page, there it is. We checked that one as well and it says, you see it right there at the top. There you go again, LSM. Referring, of course, to the lame stream media.
So let me say this, there are scripted moments in politics and there are unscripted moments. Usually they are more of the former than the latter, which is why we thought you'd want to see that one for yourself.
That's it for me. I'll look for you again tomorrow night right here at 8:00.
Here now, "LARRY KING LIVE."
