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Rick's List
Former Alaska Senator Dies in Plane Crash; Interview With Former New York Governor George Pataki
Aired August 10, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: This is what we're getting at just a moment ago. Senator Ted Stevens once seemed to suggest that it was Mike Gravel's fault that his wife had died in a plane crash. I know. That's a heck of a thing for somebody to say, right?
Well, this is a bit of tough night for Mike Gravel. But the former Alaskan senator has courageously agreed to join me live here exclusively on RICK'S LIST, and that's coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here is what is making the LIST in prime time.
How did the plane carrying former Senator Ted Stevens go down in this remote area?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were good Samaritans in the area that plotted the wreckage of the aircraft.
SANCHEZ: How did Sean O'Keefe, former NASA administrator, survive this crash?
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (I), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: You don't have to worship there.
SANCHEZ: The mayor says the mosque is a go, but the former governor says not so fast.
George Pataki joins RICK'S LIST to talk about this new bus ad.
Congressman Charlie Rangel goes off.
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: I am not going away.
SANCHEZ: The JetBlue flight attendant who pulled the chute and grabbed a beer before he got grabbed by police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened up there?
SANCHEZ: What's the story behind the story?
And just how bad can you want your Chicken McNuggets? Can you say McCrazy?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hi, everybody. Thanks so much for being with us once again. I'm Rick Sanchez.
As we begin this newscast tonight, we're awaiting a news conference from the NTSB where we expect to hear new details about the plane crash that killed former Senator Ted Stevens. We are standing by for that. It could come at any moment.
Meanwhile, that single-engine plane that crashed last night, it was about 7:00 p.m. local time, maybe between 7:00 and 7:30, on the side of a mountain near Dillingham, Alaska. We now know that the weather was bad, the crash scene rugged and extremely hard to reach.
So, it was a full 12 hours before response teams could even get to survivors. All right, we at CNN confirmed that Stevens died around 2:20 p.m. Eastern time today. Stevens is one of five people we understand who died.
Former NASA Chief Sean O'Keefe was also on the plane and is one of four survivors who also included by the way O'Keefe's son. Let me stop right here because as this story has continued to develop, we have been getting more information.
In fact, what I'm going to read to you now comes in the form of a press release that we got just before we went on the air and we haven't even had time to put it in the form of a script yet. So I'm just going to read it off of this paper. Mark, if you could -- you could see it right here.
We have now got the official list of the survivors and the deceased, survivors as follows, William "Willie" Phillips, 13 years old, Sean O'Keefe, 54 years old. By the way, we're told he had a broken pelvis from the injury. And you can imagine how long he was out there waiting with a broken pelvis for rescue officials to arrive? His son Kevin O'Keefe survived as well. He had a leg injury. Jim Morhard of Alexandria, Virginia, survived as well.
Here's who died. Senator Ted Stevens, as you know, 86 years old, Anchorage. Theron "Terry" Smith, 62, of Eagle River, Bill Phillips Sr., Dana Tindall, 48, of Anchorage, and Corey Tindall, only 16 years old, of Anchorage, Alaska.
So, there you have it. Now listen to this. Ted Stevens -- this is interesting and somewhat eerie. Ted Stevens had said that among politicians in Alaska, plane crashes are a -- quote -- "occupational hazard." His wife died in a crash in 1978, a crash that Stevens survived.
Joining me now from Washington, another former senator from Alaska, Mike Gravel, who recently ran for president as a Democrat.
This has got to be a tough night for you and I want to tell you something personally. I want to thank you for coming on, because I know you have read the press releases. I know you have read the things that have been said in the past. There have been reports in the past that said that you and Senator Ted Stevens didn't exactly see eye to eye. There's even been reports that I have read tonight that seem to suggest that he at one point was blaming you for the death of his wife.
MIKE GRAVEL (D), FORMER U.S. SENATOR: That's what happened shortly after the airplane accident.
At the time, I, obviously, could not say anything, and he had close friends that tried to disabuse him of that. Obviously, he was suffering shock from the accident. He lived through it. And his body was literally mangled, bruised. And so mentally he had just a problem with that.
And that was during a very contested period of the Alaska lands legislation, which I was opposing and which he was supporting. And so, he sort of just carried away and just made the statement two or three times publicly.
But I certainly don't hold anything against Ted on that. You had mentioned earlier...
SANCHEZ: Well, that's interesting. Well, here's what "The Washington Post" reported back then. They say, he hobbled into a Senate committee hearing and then said -- quote -- "I don't want to get personal about it, but I think that if that bill had passed, I might have had a wife sitting at home when I get home tonight."
You know, this must have hurt. Did you guys talk after this? Did you reestablish your relationship on better grounds?
GRAVEL: Oh, yes, we did. Ted and I were always friendly, not friends, but very friendly and cordial to each other.
However, publicly, we couldn't be further apart. He was the major force supplying the money and the wherewithal for the military industrial complex and I was the major force trying to defeat the military industrial complex.
He survived and continued to do that. But, here, stop and think. He's had a long, illustrious career. He's done a lot for Alaska. And I salute him for that. That doesn't mean we have to agree on policy decisions. And we didn't.
So, it wasn't a feud. I never got involved in his campaign elections. He was a little bit more partisan than I was. I was not that partisan or that much of a party man in that regard. But I personally liked Ted. I knew him much before he ever ran for office and I ran for office.
I was speaker of the house in Alaska and he was the minority leader and we got along very, very well.
SANCHEZ: Take us back to 1978 after that plane crash. By the way, tell us about this picture that we're looking at right now. Is this a picture of both of you together?
GRAVEL: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. We look a little younger, don't we?
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Who's who here?
GRAVEL: Well, wait a second. Wait a second. Now, if you got problems with that, Rick, you got to get some new glasses.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I'm telling you, you guys look so young here, it's hard to tell. You could be cousins here.
GRAVEL: Well, we were young. We were young.
SANCHEZ: I imagine that's Stevens on the right, correct?
(CROSSTALK)
GRAVEL: That's correct. That's correct.
SANCHEZ: And that's you on the left. What were you all doing here?
GRAVEL: And -- well, it's hard for me to figure, probably at a committee meeting or something like that.
I turned in some pictures that your producer asked me to bring about the signing of the Alaska pipeline legislation, where Stevens, Scoop Jackson and myself were there with Richard Nixon.
SANCHEZ: Wow, look at that.
GRAVEL: Here's the picture.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
GRAVEL: That's the picture of the delegation. That's Ted Stevens, but also you failed to notice that on the right was Nick Begich, who also died with Hale Boggs in an accident.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
GRAVEL: This is Stevens. He was supporting -- this is the signing of the Alaska pipeline legislation, which was my amendment that brought it about.
There's Begich on the right. And Nick, of course, died in -- near Whittier with Hale Boggs in an airplane accident. And that's of course a committee meeting.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: There's the signing ceremony with -- there's Ted Stevens -- and the signing ceremony with Richard Nixon.
GRAVEL: Of the Alaska pipeline.
SANCHEZ: Wow. That's amazing. Now, there's the one you were referring to just moments ago, I think. I think all the way on the right there is who?
GRAVEL: Nick Begich. He was the congressman from Alaska. And Hale Boggs had gone to Alaska to campaign for him and raise money. And they were in a plane with Don Jonz. And Don was a pilot that ferried me around a great deal.
And they left Anchorage, picked up ice and dove right into the water and have never been found since.
SANCHEZ: What a story.
GRAVEL: And the gentleman next to -- between Stevens and myself is Bill Egan, the longest serving governor of Alaska, the first governor after statehood, and of course was a pilot from Valdez when he was a young man, from Valdez.
SANCHEZ: So, finally, as the viewers leave you tonight -- and I'm so glad once again that you came on to join us -- is it safe to say that you guys had your bad moments, but you worked through them and in the end he leaves this world being a friend of Mike Gravel's?
(CROSSTALK)
GRAVEL: Yes, I would say not a close friend, but a friend. We would talk. We would visit whenever I was on the Hill.
You know, Ted I think died in a very honorable way. He was a fisherman and here he was going fishing. And I'm sure he was brought on that trip by O'Keefe, who of course was a protege of Ted Stevens.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAVEL: And so his career was responsible to Ted.
SANCHEZ: And ironically dies in the same form in which his wife died which he said to several reporters, including our own Ed Henry, that he hard always felt guilty about the fact that he had survived that plane crash and she had, in fact, died.
Mike Gravel, you know what? I meant it when I said it. I'm so glad that you had the courage to come on here tonight and address these questions that a lot of people have always had about your relationship with Ted Stevens, no less than on the day of his death. My thanks to you. Thanks for being with us.
GRAVEL: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: By the way I want to show you that Ed Henry tweet now that we were talking about just a moment ago. Take a look at this. This is Ed Henry. This is what I was referring to just moments ago. "Stevens decided in 1978 to fly to Denver in order to tell his father-in-law in person his daughter had died. He didn't want to do it over the phone."
Interesting. All right. We have got new details on how that plane crash that killed Ted Stevens actually took place. And you are going to be hearing from Greg Feith, who is going to be coming up in just a little bit. He knows as much as anyone about plane crashes, with his experience with the NTSB.
Also, is a new ad about the mosque controversy in New York inflammatory? Former New York Governor George Pataki is dead-set against this mosque and he is going to join me live to talk about it.
But, before we do that, which states have the most mosques? We have got a list for you tonight. Coming in at number three, Texas. Did you know that? Did you know that Texas has 121 mosques? But that's nothing compared to number two, California, where there are 228 mosques.
So, which state has the most? Do you think it's New York or do you think it's Michigan? Which state has the most mosques? The answer in two minutes as our LIST rolls on and we wait for that NTSB news conference to begin right here on RICK'S LIST.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Once again, I just want you to know that NTSB news conference is about to start any moment now. And as soon as it does, you are going to be able to see it live right here on CNN. We have worked hard to get this shot up for you. And there it is. And as soon as some of these officials go to the microphone and start explaining some of the details of what happened on board that plane crash, you will hear it live right here on RICK'S LIST.
Meanwhile, back to the story I mentioned to you just before we went other a break. You want the answer? There are seven million practicing Muslims in this country, seven million. They live from coast to coast, but have hundreds of mosques in Texas and in California, as aforementioned.
Which state, though, is number one? Is it Michigan or is it New York? The answer is New York, with 230 mosques scattered throughout the state.
Are those against this Islamic center/mosque in New York City going too far these days? I want to you decide as you look at this new ad that's going to be running on city buses in New York. On one side, as you look at this, you will see that there's a picture of a mosque, on the other side, a shot of a plane that's slamming into the Twin Towers. And it poses this question: Why there?
The ad is being sponsored by a group that's called The American Freedom Defense Initiative. It has set off controversy and lawsuits in New York and has some pretty big names tweeting in to RICK'S LIST about this. As a matter of fact, let's go to the Twitter board. These are tweets I got today. Look who watches RICK'S LIST and decided to send us a tweet. "It is wrong to use the government to stop construction of a mosque where a church or synagogue would be permissible." That's Ed Koch, former mayor of New York.
So, that's what the ex-mayor said.
Look, let's ask the present mayor what he says as well. Take that, if you would.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOMBERG: Whatever you may think of the proposed mosque and community center, lost in the heat of the debate has been a basic question: Should government attempt to deny private citizens the right to build a house of worship on private property based on their particular religion? That may happen in other countries, but we should never allow it to happen here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So those are two mayors and now a former governor.
George Pataki is good enough to joins us live.
Mr. Governor, thanks so much for being with us, sir. We appreciate your time.
GEORGE PATAKI (R), FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Thank you, Rick. Nice being with you.
SANCHEZ: Why are they wrong and why are you right?
PATAKI: Well, I don't think it's a question of religious freedom. You just had your chart where you showed that New York has over 230 mosques, the most in America.
And we're certainly a very tolerant society. In this city alone, New York City, there are over 100 mosques. So, it's not the question of building a mosque. The question is what is this facility going to be? Who is behind it? How are they funding it? And I think that until those questions are answered, it's absolutely wrong.
And it's not just a local community neighborhood mosque. This is a facility that's going to rise 13 to 15 stories high, that's going to cost $100 million. And we don't know where that's coming from. And in the -- and what they claim is that it's in the name of showing respect.
Well, out of sensitivity to those of us who care so strongly about the memory of September 11, why that site?
And, Rick, there's another development today.
SANCHEZ: OK. PATAKI: Governor Paterson just said he would look -- if they were willing to look for another site, he would look to use the state to find a more appropriate site further from Ground Zero.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But, Governor, if this is a constitutional issue, which most people would agree it is, I mean, you come to this country and one of the reasons we're different from them is that we have the right to worship wherever it is we want.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Once you start telling someone you can't worship here because it affects the sensibilities or sensitivities of someone else, you're starting to go down a slippery slope. And then a lot of people would ask, well, which religion is next? Who else are we going to not let worship where they want, how they want?
PATAKI: Rick -- Rick, I don't think that's the case at all. It's not a question of not allowing people to worship.
It's a question of why this site, where is the funding coming from for this site? We have a right to know that. It will be a registered charity and they are required to disclose their funding. They haven't done that. And in this particular case, the imam in charge, Imam Rauf, we don't know much about him.
But we know some things. One is that he's refused to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization, although our government has done that. We also know that he's said after September 11 that those attacks were in part a result of American policies, which I reject completely.
(CROSSTALK)
PATAKI: ... because we do believe in freedom of speech.
(CROSSTALK)
PATAKI: If this is a legitimate house of worship, why aren't they willing to work with officials like the governor and find a more appropriate site, as opposed to doing something that is deliberately in my view provocative to those of us who hold the memory of September 11 so revered...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You've raised some interesting questions and made some excellent points. But the question goes back to who this imam is.
And also if you start going into who is giving money to whom, I mean, then you have to go to my church. You have got to go to Rome and start asking where the money is going into Rome. And you have to go the Mormons and ask them, well, what are they doing with their money? (CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I mean, that too becomes a problematic area to go when it comes to the people's right to worship constitutionally in this country, does it not?
PATAKI: Rick, I disagree with you on that completely as well.
We have a right to know, with a charity registered in the state of New York, where the funds are coming from. And if they are coming from Iran, if they are coming from Hamas, if they are coming from supporters of terrorism, obviously, this is something that we should be able to factor into whether or not the mosque should be there. We don't know the answer to these questions.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But this is not a charity. This is a religion. And a religion is different than a charity. Constitutionally speaking, it's got to be different...
(CROSSTALK)
PATAKI: They are subject to the same disclosure laws.
It's not a question of the Constitution. No one is saying that we are looking to deny any Islam -- any Muslim freedom of speech, freedom of the ability to carry out their religion. What we're saying is that this mega-facility, 13 to 15 stories high, we have a right, particularly when they are looking to build this so close to Ground Zero, to know who are people behind it, what is the motivation behind it.
Is this going to be an Islamist institution that teaches intolerance and teaches violence against America? We don't have to tolerate that and we should not tolerate that.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: No, sir. Those are excellent questions. And they should be asked. And you're absolutely right.
PATAKI: And they should be answered.
SANCHEZ: And I think everything -- in America would probably agree with you.
But if you look at some of the facts on the ground right now, we see that but Feisal Abdul Rauf has been called al Qaeda's worst nightmare, in fact by Fareed Zakaria just this weekend on his show, because, according to Fareed and according to documents that we have seen, this guy sounds to me like he truly believes in American democracy and he's on the record saying that he wants all Muslims to repudiate extremists.
It sounds just from that -- I know there could be other sides to the story -- but it sounds just from that like this is the type of Muslims that we Americans should embrace, doesn't it?
PATAKI: We should be embracing Muslims, but do you know if he's an Islamist or not? He may be rejecting violence. I don't know that's the case when he refuses to renounce a mosque as a terrorist organization.
Why will he not do that? But is he an Islamist who believes that the Islamic community should work to impose Sharia law, not just on their members, but on the country with whom -- wherein they live? We don't know the answer to these questions.
And until we do, I think we have every right to say that this might not simply be a neighborhood house of worship. This might be something aimed at a more political agenda, in which case not only do we have the right, I think we have an obligation to protect the memory of those who died on September 11.
SANCHEZ: This has been an excellent interview. And I'm so glad that you had a chance to come on and share this perspective with us tonight. Former Governor George Pataki of New York, thank you, sir, for giving us a chance to hear this perspective. We appreciate it.
PATAKI: Thank you, Rick. Nice being on with you.
SANCHEZ: All right, likewise.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANGEL: And there's nothing I wouldn't do to preserve this from going on. I love the disagreements. I love the debates. I love the arguments. But you're not going to tell me to resign to make you feel comfortable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Charlie Rangel just goes off. Have you seen this? Did you watch this today? All three cable channels stopped what they were doing and took this up in full. He says essentially, look, put up or shut up, Congress, but don't sweep me under the rug anymore. And he means it. What are Democrats to do about this problem?
And important primaries in four states tonight. What message are voters sending the White House on this night? The polls are now closed in Connecticut. We have got some returns already coming I, in Georgia. Stand by right there because we're going to be taking you through them as the very first returns come in to RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez. Stay with us. We have got so much coming your way as we scroll on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I'm going to be sharing with you some of the latest information that we're getting now from NTSB. We have got a signal coming in, but we're having a problem with this signal that we worked so hard to set up. You see it right there? You see how it's starting to break up a little bit as -- we will do everything we can to extrapolate all the information that we possibly can from that news conference.
And as we do we will turn it around for you. But it's going to be very difficult for many of you at home to watch that for yourselves. So we have got people monitoring for you. As they give us the information, I am going to share it with some of our guests.
Among those is Greg Feith. He, as you probably know, because you've seen him many times here on RICK'S LIST and other shows, is a former NTSB investigator. He's now an aviation security consultant. Back when he was an NTSB investigator, he and I worked on several crashes together, including the famous ValuJet crash down in the Florida Everglades in South Florida. And he joins us now to take us through what he has been able to surmise so far from this plane crash in Alaska.
Mr. Feith, thank you so much for being with us, sir. We appreciate your time as usual.
GREG FEITH, FORMER SENIOR AIR SAFETY INVESTIGATOR, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: Hi, Rick.
SANCHEZ: We understand that this pilot was not required to file a flight plan with the NTSB. Wouldn't that have been very difficult for rescue officials to then find the plane?
FEITH: Well, the Safety Board is going to look at the fact that this pilot did not file a flight plan. He wasn't required to file it with the FAA.
He was flying under visual flight rules. That is, the pilot would be using ground references for navigation and probably a GPS as well. But the bigger concern for the board right now is looking at the weather and the planning of that flight given the very bad weather conditions that existed in that area at the time of takeoff.
SANCHEZ: So does that mean that a pilot like this, in an area like this can just freelance with the lives of, you know, in this case eight or nine people on board?
FEITH: Technically, it's not freelancing. But pilots are supposed to be planning the flight. They use charts. They of course have to evaluate the weather conditions and determine if, in fact, that flight from point A to point B can be conducted safely.
And one of those big evaluations is not only the weather at the time of takeoff, but continually monitoring and evaluating those weather conditions as they progress along their route of flight.
SANCHEZ: As we look at this plane and we're getting some the first pictures right now, Mr. Feith, let me ask you. If you don't have to put in a flight plan, that means you're not really as accountable as some people would expect that you should be if you have got passengers on board your flight.
I can understand if you're flying by yourself. But if you have passengers, if you're taking someone from point A to point B, shouldn't we really consider a system that makes you file a flight plan so you are accountable to somebody?
FEITH: Absolutely.
And I think that that's one thing that the NTSB is really going take a hard look at. They are going to want to know that if this pilot didn't file a flight plan with the FAA, was there a requirement or a policy or procedure that the company file the flight plan with themselves, that is, have a flight-following procedure?
The pilot tells the people at the lodge, this is who is on board, this is when I'm taking off, this is how much fuel I have, this is when I'm expected to arrive at my destination. And if I haven't checked in within an hour or two hours, then come looking for me and here's the route of flight we intend to take.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting.
FEITH: The board is really going to have to look at that as well.
SANCHEZ: I think you're right. Look, I'm not a pilot. I'm just asking layman's questions. But all this seems very curious to me.
One more thing before I let you go. How rugged, how difficult is this area that this pilot was trying to make this landing in?
FEITH: Well, we don't know exactly if this was an intentional act, that is, the pilot was trying to make some sort of emergency landing, or if it was actually an accident, where the pilot may not have actually seen where he was crashing.
One of the big things, Rick, about the terrain out there is that you have a large area of very flat terrain and there are mountains that pop up, and just due north of Dillingham, there's a mountain that goes over 1,000 feet. If the clouds, if the weather was such that it obscured that mountain, this pilot may not have actually seen what he hit.
SANCHEZ: Wow. Talk about sudden contact or sudden impact.
Mr. Feith, thank you, sir for taking us through this. We certainly appreciate your time and certainly your expertise as well.
We should mention to viewers that, in fact, preliminary reports indicate that in fact the plane did crash into a mountain, as Greg Feith was suggesting there.
Why were O'Keefe and Stevens though on the same plane? What are the chances? What's their connection? That's ahead. It's been trending because it's what so many people are asking us about, so we've been looking into it tonight. Also, a hateful bigot is running for the school board. You know what? I'm going to call him out because he's a hateful bigot. You know which list I'm talking about. That's coming up.
I'm Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST and I'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It's Brooke Baldwin time. She comes out here and she talks to us about the things that are trending, the things that people are asking about, the things that people are talking about on social media and on the Internet. And one of the things that a lot of people have been curious about today is, look, what are the chances that two distinguished men like these two --
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right.
SANCHEZ: -- who've been in front of television cameras their whole lives end up on the same airplane as it's going down in Alaska. So I guess the question is, what's the connection between these two?
BALDWIN: What is the former senator and a former NASA chief doing on this teeny tiny plane in this teeny tiny part of Alaska? Right?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: Well, here's the answer. It goes back a little way. Let me back you up.
Senator Stevens is very passionate as a senator when it came to space travel, close with some aerospace companies, supported NASA. In fact, we learned he chaired a committee that controlled some of the purse strings. Now at the same time here, Sean O'Keefe actually chaired NASA from '01 to '05. So they developed a friendship. They were buddies, long-time buddies who enjoyed spending the summers fishing.
SANCHEZ: But their friendship, I understand, goes back what? Even further, right, to something like the '80s?
BALDWIN: Goes back to the '80s. We've been digging and digging and found that, in fact in the mid-'80s, O'Keefe actually worked for the late senator on the Senate Appropriations Committee and then in 1989, Stevens act nominated O'Keefe for the comptroller's job at the Department of Defense. But here's -- you know, we talk about the transcripts before.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: But this is actually the sound we were able to find two years later when O'Keefe was nominated to be head of NASA. Stevens was one of the senators really singing his praises. He called O'Keefe. Here's the video from '01.
SANCHEZ: Look at that. BALDWIN: Called O'Keefe a man of great honor, great talent, great ability. But I want you to listen to this. This is how gracious O'Keefe was in thanking the senator. It really shows a real respect between the two men.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: It has been a particular honor to enjoy the sponsorship of the distinguished House Committee chairman, Congressman Sherwood Boehlert, and my long-time friend and mentor, Senator Ted Stevens.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Friend and long-time friend and mentor.
SANCHEZ: Long-time friend and mentor. Yes.
BALDWIN: We're not talking -- we're talking friends. We're also talking mentor-mentee relationship. And looking back in some of the other transcripts, a lot of references, friend, mentor. So just makes it even worse.
SANCHEZ: You did a story last night that everyone has still been asking me about.
BALDWIN: Oh, yes.
SANCHEZ: And I've been seeing a lot of tweets. Yes. You did the story about this --
BALDWIN: I feel like we're ahead of the curve on that one.
SANCHEZ: We were. The flight attendant who suddenly seemed to --
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: -- I don't know, freak out, I guess might me a good word.
BALDWIN: Wing nuts in the news. Yes.
SANCHEZ: He pulls the chute, gets ready to get off the plane but first he grabs a beer and then he takes off. Well, that's against federal law.
BALDWIN: Right. It's a crime.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: It's a crime. Who do you think when you're in a tough situation who does something not so smart, who comes to your defense, not just your wife but your --
SANCHEZ: Mother? BALDWIN: Your mama.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BALDWIN: So his mother we're now hearing from.
SANCHEZ: Really?
SANCHEZ: -- the mother of this flight attendant. Everybody is talking about now coming to her son's defense. You know the story, Steven Slater. We have some pictures from his MySpace page actually tonight to show you. Rick mentioned that, you know, he hollered on the plane intercom, cursed at some passengers yesterday. Didn't forget to grab some beer, popped the lever on the plane's chute and off he went.
Well, the mother told our ABC affiliate out in L.A. her son will not be in trouble long. It's a small meltdown but it does not compare to the passenger's meltdown and the egg on his head that apparently he received, according to her, from the smack on his head when the woman was trying to receive her luggage.
Now, Slater was in court today. Here's some of the sketches we're sharing with you. Ordered held on $2,500 bond. But despite the charges, two felonies may I add, he was all smiles in court just like the perp walk didn't speak at all.
SANCHEZ: You know it takes two sides to make a story. And I bet if you ask the guy who was pulling out the baggage, he would say that the other guy was out of control. He says no, it was the passenger who was out of control.
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: What do other passengers say about what really happened between these two?
BALDWIN: Of course now, we're hearing little bits and pieces from some of the passengers. And I think the overall sentiment is that they were confused initially. If you weren't sitting around the immediate area where the passengers, you know, allegedly yelling at this flight attendant, they hear this flight attendant cursing over the intercom thinking what in the world is going on, right? So we have a passenger, he actually tweeted after he got off the plane. Here's what he said.
"JetBlue story: pissed off lady demanded her bag, swore at the flight attendant. The Flight attendant swore back on intercom, quit job, left plane via emergency slide."
All right. Well, that same passenger -- get this -- actually rammed into Steven Slater at the airport a little bit later. Overheard a conversation on the air train. Seemed pretty happy. Listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PHIL CATELINET, JETBLUE PASSENGER: He flung his tie off. He was happy that he -- he said I quit my job. I'm done with this. And he's happy. It wasn't like he was mad. He seemed relieved and excited that his career was, you know, taking a new turn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Taking a new turn. What might Steven Slater be doing next? Well, his ex-wife, in addition to mom, we're hearing from her coming to his defense. Here you go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE O: CYNTHIA SUSANNE, SLATER'S EX-WIFE: Steven is an excellent flight attendant and was obviously trying to maintain a situation with an unruly person. But as far as I'm concerned, this passenger should be the one that's on trial not Steven.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: All right.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
BALDWIN: Here's one final note because we're hip with the Internet. We have gotten on -- we've checked out Facebook. And there is -- there are a couple of different pages and I think one of them was something like free Steven Slater. Here's one of them. Thirty thousand fans and counting. You know, people in the service industry, they're empathetic to this guy. But look, you said it, he broke the law.
SANCHEZ: That's a very thorough story and we thank you for it. By the way, some of the very first results are coming back on some of these elections that we're following tonight and we're going to have those. We're also -- did you see Charlie Rangel today?
BALDWIN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: I deserve and demand the right to be heard. And if I hurt anybody's feeling, believe me it's the equity and the fairness and the justice that I'm asking for and not your feelings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Wow. Charlie Rangel takes to the floor of the House today and he tells his colleagues, look, you put up or you shut up. This is a hell of a moment that happened today. You got to see this.
Also, voters in several states tonight are sending a message to Washington. What is the message? Early returns are already coming in from Georgia. We may expect some soon from Connecticut and then Colorado, maybe Minnesota. Stay there. We're going to take you through this on RICK'S LIST. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is RICK'S LIST.
Did you see this today? Congressman Charlie Rangel is seriously fired up. Did you catch that speech? Here. Let's watch it together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: If I was you, I may want me to go away too. I am not going away. I am here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: He is not going away. We've been on this story now for two years, the alleged corruption of New York Democrat Charlie Rangel.
Now, remember this, let me take you back a little bit. Charlie Rangel, this is the famous shot. Boy, New Yorkers know this well. It's been all over the tabs. He's relaxing at a Caribbean condo, the income from which he did not report on his tax form. As I pointed out then, it was pretty ironic, ironic that Rangel didn't report that income because at the time Charlie Rangel was running the top congressional tax writing committee. That's the problem. He's had to relinquish that job and now he is facing a public corruption trial.
I want to yield to Charlie Rangel because the speech he gave today, this was vintage Charlie Rangel. So, I won't be detailing the 13 charges against him but let me give you one. Just one.
The House Ethics Committee alleging that in 2007 the Congressman did a 180 degree turn. He voted to pass a tax break he earlier voted against after he met with an oil executive who wanted the thing passed and pledged a cool million dollars to Rangel's charity. Follow? That's one of the allegations against him.
All right. I told you we'd hear from Rangel himself. Here he is. He's speaking today right from the well of the House of Representatives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: Hey, I'm 80 years old. All my life has been from the beginning public service. That's all I've ever done. Been in the Army. Been a state legislator. Been a federal prosecutor. Forty years here. And all I'm saying is that if it is the judgment of people here for whatever reason that I resign, then heck, have the ethics committee expedite this. Don't leave me swinging in the wind until November. If this is an emergency, and I think it is to help our local and state governments out, what about me? I don't want anyone to feel embarrassed, awkward. Hey, if I was you I may want me to go away too. I am not going away. I am here. And I do recognize that. (APPLAUSE)
If I can't get my dignity back here, then fire your best shot in getting rid of me through expulsion. Now, I apologize for any embarrassment that I've caused. I'm prepared to admit and try to let young people know that you never get too big to recognize that these rules are for junior members as they are for senior members. And that you can't get so carried away with good intentions that you break the rules, because the rules are there to make certain that we have some order, some discipline and respect for the rules. And I violated that and I'm apologizing for it. And I don't think apologies mean that this is a light matter. It's very serious.
But corruption? Maybe, just maybe the members of the ethics committee might think about telling me when they think they might have a hearing so that whatever they decide I can let my constituent, my families, my friends know that I did the best I could as an American, as a patriot and someone that loves this country. Thank you for your attention. Go home.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Charlie Rangel, 40 years in the making. Forty years in the House now facing a trial before the House Ethics Committee. And here's what's interesting about this story. Many in Washington weren't -- didn't even know what was going on when it was going on.
Look at this tweet that we received today. This tweet was sent by Jim Himes. He's there in the House of Representatives. Charlie Rangel comes out. He doesn't seem to know what's going to on because, look, he sent this as Rangel was speaking. And here he goes.
He says, "Rangel mounting a lengthy defense of himself in the well. No notes." And look how he finished this. "Unclear where this is going."
We found out eventually where Charlie was going with all of this, and it's a problem for the Democrats. We'll let you know what comes out of it.
All right. This is a night that the White House is watching very closely. Probably watching this newscast as we speak. Key races happening right now across the country. Jessica Yellin is in the thick of all of this. She is in Denver and will be joining us live in just a moment. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Here we go. We just gotten some information from Alaska. Casey Wian, our correspondent, is up there following the situation for us. He's joining us now on the phone to bring us up-to- date on what the NTSB has found and thus reported so far in this news conference that they've been having tonight.
Casey, are you there? If so, take it away. Tell us what you've learned.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, I sure am. We just heard from NTSB Chairman Deborah Hersman and what she said is very consistent with what we've been reporting from pilots who overflew the crash scene last night and that is basically that the plane crashed into a very steep hillside about a 30 to 40 degree hillside. It left a debris field about 100 yards long going up a slope. The fuselage of the plane was largely intact. The wings were swept back and the front end of the plane was smashed in. There was no fire when the plane impacted the mountain, though there was a strong smell of fuel throughout the night as those victims waited for rescuers to arrive. When they were hampered for hours and hours by bad weather, they couldn't get to the scene. Eventually a couple of hours after the crash, they were able to airlift a physician into the area and she hiked about 1,000 feet up a hill to actually reach the crash scene and stayed with the survivors, those four survivors, throughout the night providing comfort and assistance until they could be airlifted out of the area and that didn't happen until today, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Are you telling me that those survivors, one of which Sean O'Keefe, we understand had a broken pelvis, if you can confirm that for us, was stuck there for hours on end before they finally were able to get a physician to them. That must have been excruciating, Casey.
WIAN: Absolutely. It had to be terrible. The NTSB would not talk about specific injuries to the victims. We asked them what the victims told the rescue personnel or what the survivors may have said to the physician. They would not give us that information. Then said they wanted to protect their privacy at this time. You can only imagine how it must have been in that cold weather overnight. They were missing for several hours from this fishing trip that they were on. The only reason they found this flight was missing is the folks in the lodge they were staying at called to try to reach them to find out what time they were coming back for dinner, and they weren't able to reach them and that's when they started sending other aircraft to overfly the area to see if they could find them. So they were out there for a long time with very little assistance.
SANCHEZ: And I under all of them were found in the fuselage which is a story in and of itself considering that four of them survived and five of them died.
WIAN: Actually one of the survivors, when the physician arrived was actually outside of the aircraft at the time. One of the survivors. We don't know which one was ambulatory.
SANCHEZ: I'll tell you, what a story. Hey, Casey, thanks so much. We appreciate you hustling to get that information to us.
WIAN: You got it.
SANCHEZ: By the way, somebody else is hustling to get information to us right now. It's our own Steve Brusk. He has just tweeted some information that I want to share with you because this is what we're going to be talking about next. Fifty percent of the vote in according to "The Associated Press"'s numbers. This is in Georgia. We've also got some numbers from Connecticut. But right now, it looks like Deal is holding a 51 to 49 lead. Bit of a surprise there. We're going to be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. I want to take you to some of this information we're getting now. As you know, it's vote night in America -- four different states, Connecticut, Minnesota, Georgia and Colorado. Just starting to get some numbers in.
Let me take you to Georgia first. This is according to "The Associated Press." Nathan Deal is barely eking out a lead right now against Karen Handel in the Republican gubernatorial runoff. This is right now at 51 percent to 49 percent with half the votes in. So figure, 50 percent of the vote is in and surprisingly Karen Handel is losing this right now to Nathan Deal, although again it's a two point differential. So not that big a deal.
Let's go to Steve Brusk. Hey, Mark, do me a favor. Go to that tweet. We're making some news now on the Twitter board as well. Go the Twitter board. And here's Steve Brusk again coming through for us. A political guru in Washington.
Connecticut where "AP" has just 12 percent of the vote in. McMahon is now up 47-30 in this Senate primary. Malloy and Foley have double-digit leads in the governor's race. So there you go, McMahon at 47 to 30 percent. That's not a surprise, by the way.
Let me bring in Jessica Yellin and David Gergen. And let's get some reaction to this.
David, let me begin with you if I possibly can. Hopefully you're there, right? Yes, there's David. There's Jessica.
Hey, are you surprised about these preliminary results that we're getting in Georgia? I mean, look, Nathan Deal looks like he's winning right now, 50 percent of the vote. That's pretty significant. He's only winning by two. You got to remember, Karen Handel was supported by Mitt Romney. She was supported -- just the other day, a huge news story when Sarah Palin came down here and gave that speech for her. Nathan Deal is supported to be fair by Newt Gingrich and he's a hometown boy. He's a Georgian. So what's your reaction to this?
DAVID GERGEN, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, you've been living in Atlanta a lot, Rick, so you got a closer view of it. But my sense was that Nathan Deal started out as a favorite and then when Sarah Palin came in and endorsed the mama grizzly in Karen Handel, she actually -- Karen Handel went up. But right now, it's too close to call. With two points difference with only 50 percent of the vote in, you don't know where that's coming. From urban areas which are probably (INAUDIBLE). You don't know where the support is coming from. So let's wait and see. But Huckabee is on the side of Nathan Deal and Romney and Palin are on the side of Karen Handel, so from a Republican standpoint, a very interesting race.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it is. You got -- you know, you got Mitt Romney. You got Sarah Palin. You got Newt Gingrich. You got -- you got a lot of players in that one.
So let's go to Connecticut. Hey, Jess, this Connecticut race, I mean, you got former WWF or World Wrestling Federation, whatever it's called former CEO, I've heard Ann Coulter say this is a huge missed opportunity for Republicans, why are they running this woman? I mean, is this thing being gift-wrapped for the Dems and Richard Blumenthal? But in the end, look, she's doing what she needs to do. It looks like she's going to win this thing, right?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATL. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It looks like she's going to win this one. And, Rick, she is running -- the reason she's been criticizes by some Republicans like Ann Coulter is partly because she doesn't have a record in politics. She's from the WW. It's now the WWE, which has like a sort of tainted image in politics. But the bottom line is she's running as a political outsider in a year when that is the best thing you can do.
Washington is so reviled and hated right now, the non-politicians are the ones who do well. She has an incredibly large war chest. She said she'll spend $50 million of her own money on this. And so she can say she's not taking PAC money and say she's clean. And so far it's worked. So far the attacks on her record with the WWE have not held her back. So she is going to be a strong candidate. Whether she can win in a blue state like Connecticut is yet to be seen, but she will certainly make the Democrats spend a lot of money on this race which they don't want to do, Rick.
SANCHEZ: That's a good question. We've got about a minute left. I want to give you each 30 seconds to answer this question. I'll begin with you, David Gergen. Are there signs that this race could affect the Dems or the Republicans? I mean, where do you think this -- what's the message being sent to the White House, for example?
GERGEN: From which state?
SANCHEZ: Well, from any of these four primaries. Are they really significant or is this the kind of thing where we in the media make too much of it?
GERGEN: Oh, I think Colorado is going to be significant. We've got an Obama versus Clinton race on the Democratic side there in the Senate primaries as you know. But let's go back to Connecticut. Blumenthal is likely to keep that seat in the Democratic column, but it's not sure. If McMahon wins big tonight, you give her a little momentum and she could be very competitive. On the gubernatorial thing In Connecticut, I think it's very interesting --
SANCHEZ: Down to 10 seconds.
GERGEN: To Dan Malloy who is a union guy is now beating Ned Lamont who is much more an Obama type guy. SANCHEZ: Yes. My thanks to both of you. We're out of time and Larry will get mad at me if we keep talking. So here now, "LARRY KING LIVE." We'll see you tomorrow.
