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Rick's List
Desperately Seeking Housing; Rangel Fires Back, Seeks Hearing; Man Videotapes Great White Shark While on Surfboard; Stay Lifted on California Proposition 8 Ruling, Allowing Gay Marriage to Resume
Aired August 12, 2010 - 14:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Look forward to that, Ali.
In the meantime, I do -- I do want to bring you up-to-date on what's going on in California.
Welcome to those of you joining us right now. And any moment now, we are going to be able to hear what a judge has decided in the state of California. There is the live picture as we follow it right now.
Folks, it's very simple. If this stay is lifted -- this stay that has been there in California for quite some time now regarding the ban on same-sex marriage -- if this stay is lifted, then same-sex marriage will be legal in California. That could mean that, look at this clip (ph), we'll see people going -- same-sex couples going to get married in the state of California. And we would turn that video around as soon as we get it.
So, once again, let me just be as -- let me just be as clear as I possibly can with this. We at CNN have correspondents following the story. Jeffrey Toobin is standing by to bring analysis on the story as well. And as soon as we get a decision on what the -- on what the ruling is by this judge, we will turn it around for you right away.
In the meantime, topping the list right now, as Ali was saying just moments ago: fear and the economy. I want -- I want you to look at this headline. And our friends at CNN Money tweeted me just this afternoon. There it is:
"U.S. stocks pare losses but remain negative, dragged lower by tech shares. Dow, Nasdaq, S&P 500 all down less than 1 percent."
Now, what's interesting about this is that most of us are feeling the pinch these days, but something happened in Atlanta yesterday that really seemed to stop us in our tracks. Here's what's on my list. It's the sheer desperation. These people, 30,000 of them mobbed the housing authority -- this is in suburban Atlanta on a day so hot that dozens ended up needing medical attention.
Now, I want you to listen closely, if you would, to this. These are these people that are outside the office to try and pick up just one application to be able to apply for a waiting list. A waiting list for a voucher for a federal Section 8 subsidized housing.
The interesting part is, there could have been as many as 30,000 people there. There were only 450 off these vouchers/applications.
Take a listen to this one couple as tell their story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They should have let us know something, a time, when to be here. Some people have been here since Sunday morning, Monday morning. It was ridiculous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was completely unorganized, completely unorganized. (INAUDIBLE) Section 8.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't have housing for my kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Hear that? Did you hear that? She doesn't have housing for her kids. Others complained of long lines. Some said look, there's just no coordination.
But, folks, as you look at these pictures -- look at these long and good. Those are like a sign of the times of what's going on in the United States right now.
Some said the housing authority simply didn't realize how huge the demand would be and they weren't ready for 30,000 desperate people to suddenly show up. We saw this yesterday and shared it with you just as it began to happen. It's still going on today.
One local official told residents a contingency plan was in place and was activated when the crowd suddenly swelled.
So, here's what we've done today. We sent Josh Levs out there. He's back at East Point now trying to get a sense of really what has happened there.
And, I guess, look, this is a story about the economic conditions that we're all faced with as a nation right now. But it also has to do with the anguish that's being felt by some of those people that you saw there. Did you get a chance to talk to any of them, Josh?
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I did, yes. I did and I'm going to tell you about that.
Let me tell you, first off, for people out there who are concerned there might be a horrible situation today. It's night and day, given what we're seeing today. In fact, take a look at the street here. I'll tell you what's been going on. It's actually calm right now.
What's been happening is they're telling people who have filled out their applications to just drive up, hand it to the officers, hand it to the officials and drive along. So, you see bunch of orange cones that are set up back there, people, throughout the day in a steady stream, have been not even getting out of their cars, Rick, just handing them over. And people take them to trying to avoid people getting out of their cars, avoiding the big crowds that are showing up here. So, it's night and day compared to what happened yesterday.
But let me also tell you more about what did happen yesterday and why this all happened, because now, they've had a chance to absorb it, look into it, figure out what actually went down yesterday. Indeed, they expected about 10,000 people. They had about 30,000 people. In the end, everyone who wanted an application actually got an application. They handed out 13,000 applications ultimately.
There were a lot of people who were concerned they might not get one or if they got here earlier, they might get more. Officials here telling us in the end, everyone who wanted an application managed to get one. That said, there are a lot of people waiting for days and days and days.
I talked to one woman this morning who came to turn in her application. She is 37 weeks pregnant. She arrived on Monday, slept here for two nights just to hand it in. And then she talks about what it was like yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANDICE DIXON, SEEKING HOUSING HELP: Honestly, it was horrifying. It was -- it was chaotic. To be someone that waited in line patiently, you know, that was orderly. It was -- it was -- I was scared for my life. I was terrified.
LEVS: Did you sleep on the street? What did you do? You were here continuously, you didn't leave?
DIXON: No, sir. I didn't. I actually had a lawn chair with a pillow and a blanket that my friend had bought me. I stayed against the wall, lined up with everyone else that had started the line and I slept out there. Washed up in Kroger, went back over there and camped out some more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVS: And, Rick, so many people did that. We have all these horror stories about what people saw yesterday, who are getting forced around -- this massive crowd pushing into each other, all the things that went down.
I asked an official this morning, I said, why did you not know how many people to turn out here today, how -- or yesterday? How would you not know that? She said, you know what, they expected 10,000. That is a lot.
The last time they offered this eight years ago, they had 2,500 people. They figured it would multiply by four. They never imagined all this people, it would be more people and more people -- ultimately, we have 30,000 people and the mass chaos, Rick, that we saw yesterday.
SANCHEZ: Hey, stick around there, Josh. I want to bring somebody else into the conversation now.
Our senior business correspondent, Ali Velshi, is joining us now.
Did you see the movie -- do you remember the movie "Cinderella Man"?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
SANCHEZ: That was a sad movie.
VELSHI: Sad movie, yes.
SANCHEZ: Yes. And as you watch it, you felt bad because you wanted to reach across and do everything you could to help this guy, and he was suffering because he couldn't feed his kids.
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: And he was doing things he normally wouldn't do.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And I know -- I know -- I know it's an extreme case of what happened in this country during the Great Depression.
VELSHI: But that's what that reminds you of. It does -- your mind goes to the same place.
SANCHEZ: Exactly.
VELSHI: Really? In 2010, you got people mobbing to get -- and these are not people with a lot of money. To get Section 8 vouchers, you have to have very little money. So, this is not people gaming the system. This is incredible, that you're mobbing to try to get an opportunity to get housing that you can afford? What's wrong with that picture?
SANCHEZ: Yes. This is America?
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: This is our America? You know, we have guys like you all the time come on and you share numbers with us. And, you know, manufacturing is this and stocks are this.
VELSHI: That's where -- yes, where the rubber hits the road.
SANCHEZ: But this -- this is the economy.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: This is where the rubber hits the road, exactly.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Is it truly a sign of the times? And does it say that somehow between the unemployment situation, the dire situation with credit and banking that you've told us about, that we're really still in a big fix and we're not going to be out of this for quite some time?
VELSHI: Yes, one of the things about -- you know, you have -- the opposite of our economy is a planned economy, right? Communist countries had planned economies.
SANCHEZ: Right.
VELSHI: The government sets out what's going to be made, what's going to be sold, who's going to get what.
Ours is a market-driven economy. Things are made that are going to be sold and prices are determined by supply and demand. Ours is all about how people feel.
And we've been coming out of this recession -- hopefully, we've been thinking we have, and you get more confident. You think, right, I haven't been laid off, maybe I'm going to keep my job. So, maybe I should buy that car, maybe I should look at something else.
Now, it's like they're giving you a mortgage for virtually no money. You can buy a car with no money down, with no interest -- and people still aren't buying it because they are fearful. I don't want to be out of my job in six months or a year and not have an income and be stuck with debt. So, people are paralyzed.
SANCHEZ: We know that the situation was very bad at the very end of the last administration.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And this administration came in and they tried to create incentives to kick start the economy with stimulus plans --
VELSHI: Right. Yes.
SANCHEZ: -- with TARP, with all the other programs that you and I have talked about.
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: Is there any evidence at this point, that you as an economist see, that would indicate to you that some of those are actually taking form?
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: That they're working in any way, shape or form -- or are they not?
VELSHI: We know -- Josh and I have both spent a lot of time looking at the stimulus. We definitely know it has created jobs. The problem is, it's the counter-wave of more jobs lost that ended up not creating a substantial increase. SANCHEZ: So, is it just -- wait a minute -- is it just that we want too much too soon?
VELSHI: No, I think we want to know there's a future. I think people will wait. I think, they're fine, if you tell me it's going to take four or five years and it will be OK, I will behave in a way that reengages in the economy.
We're not sure where this is going. You think there's going to be a double dip recession and we have 9.5 percent unemployment, how bad will unemployment be? Will we see tent cities? Will we see mobs?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
VELSHI: That's -- and I'm not fear mongering.
SANCHEZ: No, no, no, no.
VELSHI: But that's -- we want to know that there's some avenue to prosperity. There's some place I'm going to get a job. There are some way I'm going to be able to get a --
SANCHEZ: Is there?
VELSHI: That's the big question.
SANCHEZ: You don't know. So, economists don't know. I mean, you and many others --
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Some people say it will happen. Some people say if you put more stimulus, it will happen. We don't know. We tried things. We put $1 trillion of stimulus into this economy.
SANCHEZ: OK. But you -- I heard an economist recently say, look, because we're the greatest manufacturing company historically in the world --
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: -- and the fact that there's all these emerging markets and there's all these wonderful places out there where people are going to want our goods eventually, we're going to kick our way out of this thing and we're going to be doing just fine. I talked to you yesterday and you said, not so sure.
VELSHI: Now, look, we are still a major --
SANCHEZ: Because other people can make stuff just as well as we can now.
VELSHI: They can make it -- they can make it better, they can engineer it. They can -- there was a time when they thought they design and let other people in other countries make it. They can do everything. Everybody else in the world can do what we can do. What they don't do is have the inventiveness, the innovation that Americans have, the universities that America has. Our intellectual capital is big -- but how do you make that work for unskilled laborers?
SANCHEZ: I was reading -- one last thing, I was reading Thomas Friedman on the way to work today, listening to it actually on the radio -
VELSHI: Right.
SANCHEZ: -- on my C.D. thing. And it's a book that's called "The World is Flat."
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: And he basically says that --
VELSHI: Which is good primer -- some people don't agree with his premise, but it's a good primer at understanding what's happening in the world.
SANCHEZ: Well, I think this would be interesting to our viewers who were sitting there listening at home now.
VELSHI: Yes.
SANCHEZ: What's happened is that we've leveled the playing surface. So, now, the folks in -- the folks in India, the folks in Brazil, the folks in China can do what we use to dominate.
VELSHI: They have the same opportunity. They have the technology.
SANCHEZ: So, when the consumer demand is out there, we may not be the only ones feeding it.
VELSHI: That's exactly right.
SANCHEZ: Which is a problem.
VELSHI: It used to be: we made it, other people would buy it -- whether it was cars or technology. Now, it's not that obvious.
SANCHEZ: Interesting conversation. Thanks, Ali.
VELSHI: Bye.
SANCHEZ: Always appreciate it. My thanks to Josh Levs as well.
Take look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they meet the qualifications and you put your house on sale and you have a person that wants to buy it, and then it's your right as an American to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: A national comedian and radio show host says a couple in Chicago didn't sell him their house because he is black. And the government agrees. Now, there could be a smoking gun in this case, and I've got it right here. That's all ahead.
Also, a serial killer who stabs his victim had many people scared to go outside. Now, the feds believe they have their man. But if so, why was he trying to board a flight to Israel? And how do they know he could actually be the guy?
Also, as we head to break, a reminder, that we're standing by for a ruling that could conceivably allow same-sex marriages as early as today -- as early as five minutes from now, if it happens four minutes from now. We're going to have that for you. Stay right there, we'll bring it to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Have you heard what's going on? There's been a huge break in the number one story on our "Crime List." The guy suspected of being the slasher serial killer has been arrested. The man suspected of attacking 20 men in three states, killing five of them. The man suspected of doing this to a 17-year-old boy.
The man is identified by police as Elias Abuelazam. He is 33 and he worked at a party store just outside of Flint, Michigan. And he was picked up overnight in Atlanta.
His arrest was announced by authorities in Flint just a little -- in fact, here. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LEYTON, PROSECUTOR, GENESEE CO., MICHIGAN: The suspect in the 14 stabbing assaults in our community has been apprehended. At 10:00 p.m., August 11th, Elias Abuelazam, age 33, was taken into custody at the Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport in Atlanta, Georgia, by U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers. He was waiting to board a Delta Airlines flight bound for Tel Aviv. He never actually boarded that aircraft.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Prosecutors are saying right now that 500 tips that they'd gotten from the public, it is one of those that led them to the suspect. So far, Abuelazam has been charged with assault and intent to murder. We understand that more charges are coming.
Now, don't try this at home. You're getting an up close look at a shark from the perspective of a surfer who had the nerve to film it. I'm going to ask him -- that's right, we got him -- I'm going to ask him why he did this. What is the first time he had an encounter with that -- yes, great white shark? Being from Florida, I can tell you, there's a difference between sharks. Some, you can get in their face. Some, you get within 10 feet of them and you could be dead soon. So, we're doing this interview and I can't wait to talk to this guy.
Also, we're awaiting a decision on whether same sex couples are going to be able to tie the knot in California tonight. Remember last week, a judge ruled the ban on same-sex marriages is unconstitutional, and then he issued a stay? A decision on that could come at any minute.
So, I keep reminding you of this because we really do expect that this could happen very soon here. And as soon as it does, we're going to be taking you to California so you can see some of the reaction as it occurs live for yourself.
This is RICK'S LIST. We're going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We're expecting to get a decision now on that situation on same-sex marriage ruling in California. Eight days ago, you remember, we broke this story. We had it right here when it happened. The federal judge struck down the state's Proposition 8. That was the ban on same-sex marriages.
So, right now in California, they're waiting for the appeals process. But if that same judge decides to -- here's the news, are you ready? Here's the news in all of this: if the same judge decides to lift the stay on his ruling -- the stay, it's a little different than the ruling, right -- marriage licenses could soon be issued to same-sex couples.
I mean, it's a -- again, I mean, I don't know. I'm going to ask Jeff Toobin this in a moment. I mean, there's a possibility the judge could make this ruling two minutes from now and three minutes from now -- somebody could be waiting right there on the steps of the courthouse to actually get married because what could possibly stop them if the stay is lifted.
Here's a tweet that we've been getting -- this is the mayor of Los Angeles. He's watching this as closely as anyone, right? This is Mayor Villaraigosa. He's been here on this show many times. He just tweeted, "Same sex couples shouldn't have to wait anymore. By noon" -- that's noon California time, of course -- "we'll find out if marriages can resume while the Prop 8 case is appealed."
Well, guess what? It's now 19 minutes past noon, and ain't nothing happened yet. What's going on? Why isn't this ruling in?
Let's go to Jeff Toobin to find out.
It seems like everybody thought it was going to happen before noon and it hasn't happened yet, Jeff. Why?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: You know, the legal system can always come up with a reason for a delay. Nineteen minutes is easy.
So, I assume we'll get it today. I don't think -- you know, what minute we'll get it, I don't know. But it will happen sometime today.
SANCHEZ: By the way, a lot of folks would wonder. I mean, because the judge already basically declared himself to be in favor of same-sex marriage, at least according to his ruling or at least that's his -- that's his dicta, that's his legal finding. But what about -- what about the question of why he would put a stay on his own ruling?
TOOBIN: Well, I think he's proceeding cautiously. He knows, as we all know, that this decision was going to be appealed and it's legally very controversial. So the question is, given the fact that there is at least some chance his ruling will be overturned, Prop 8 will be upheld, gay marriage will remain illegal, should he allow gay marriages to proceed right away.
SANCHEZ: Right.
TOOBIN: That's the legal question he's dealing with now about the stay. And it's a hard question. You can see why he wanted to hear arguments from both parties before he made that decision.
SANCHEZ: Final question to you, as I promised my viewers I would ask you this. Is it possible that if we get this decision, let's say, a minute from now, two or three minutes from now, somebody could be waiting there at the courthouse and they could have a legal same-sex marriage as a result of the lifting of this stay?
TOOBIN: Well, I don't think that's a theoretical question. I know Dan Simon is in San Francisco. As I understand, there are people waiting at San Francisco City Hall right now to tie the knot as soon as this stay is lifted, assuming it is.
SANCHEZ: Really?
TOOBIN: So, I believe there is a line of people waiting to get married today. So, that's not a theoretical question. That is a factual situation, as I understand it. And, you know --
SANCHEZ: I get lucky.
TOOBIN: -- people will get married if the stay is lifted.
SANCHEZ: I get lucky once in a while. I asked a theoretical question and I got a very concrete answer.
TOOBIN: That's for sure.
SANCHEZ: My thanks to you, Jeffrey Toobin, watching this. And he's going to be --
TOOBIN: All right. See you in a few minutes.
SANCHEZ: You'll be hanging out for us, right? As soon as thing comes in, we'll get right to you and you can take us through the analysis thereof.
Three inmates escaped from a prison in Arizona. One is on the loose, by the way. Now, the state's attorney general is blaming the governor. That's right. In Arizona, the attorney general is blaming the governor for this guy getting away and still being on the loose.
You're asking, huh? Aren't they on the same team? Well, not this case. I'm going to talk to him.
Also, Congressman Charles Rangel says this is his last attempt to publicly clear his name. We're going to play what he said to the media today. That's next, right here on THE LIST.
We're going to be right back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
No one -- I mean, no one has ever called New York Congressman Charlie Rangel a shrinking violet, especially now.
Today, the embattled congressman demanded the House Ethics Committee put him on trial so he can defend himself against allegations of financial wrongdoing. He is adamant that he didn't break any rules or any laws. I mean, listen to what he says. This is him in Harlem today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: Ethics is going to be in Washington. I made it abundantly clear that I'm not asking for leniency, I'm asking for a hearing. So you'll have ample time to take a shot. But for God's sake, don't repeat each other when it's not even included in the allegations from the ethics committee.
The reason I'm so lengthy about that is because, as of today, I will not be able to entertain any questions that any of you have concerning a hearing which I don't have. I personally have to prepare to defend myself for my family, for my colleagues, for my community. And that's all I've been after, just an opportunity to say I came in 40 years ago with dignity, and there is no question in my mind that there will be no obstacles politically or in the newspapers that's going to stop me, good health allowing, from clearing my name from these vile and vicious charges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Rangel partied last night at his birthday bash/fundraiser in New York. He's facing a tough re-election fight next month, but Rangel is jokingly dismissing his Democratic primary opponents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANGEL: Many people believe that after 40 years in the Congress, that some of us can get an attitude of arrogance. I've had people ask me more than once, "Do you really believe that you're the only person that can service the 15th congressional district?" And I pause and I say that there's no question in my mind that there are people that can more than adequately represent this great diversified district. The problem is: none of them are running in this race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, we'll see if he's right. The Democratic primary for his district is September 14th.
Speaking of Rangel, did you see him busting the move last night? This is during his 80th birthday bash. We're going to show you the whole thing. Better get your popcorn, folks. This is going to get real good.
Also, the so-called "Bonnie and Clyde" are still running around in the United States somewhere, running in circles according to authorities. Where in the world is this escaped convict and his alleged accomplice?
We are all over this urgent case of America's sudden most wanted. That's ahead on THE LIST. And it's also causing problems in Arizona.
Also, we're waiting for a decision, as we've told you, on Proposition 8. Stand by. As soon as it comes in, you will see, not only the decision, but the reaction as it happens live.
You're watching RICK'S LIST. We put things together for you every day and we'll continue, right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Here we go, as promised. In some accidents, the injury to your pride is worse than to your body. This next guy knows what I'm talking about. Ready? Let's do "Fotos."
It was a rough day at the office for this roofer in St. John's New Brunswick. This guy is recovering after falling through some rotten wood on the job site and taking a spill that could have been even worse. Of course, that's if he hadn't been wearing a safety harness. He had to be lowered down by local firefighters. I'm sure he's really glad the embarrassing moment got caught on camera.
From embarrassing to awe-inspiring. Watch 70-year-old Jack Nicklaus drain this 100 foot putt as the crowd goes wild. Nicklaus, of course, had home court advantage. The amazing putt was made at the opening of Nicklaus' brand-new course at Harbor Shores, Michigan. Of course, that could be any golf course anywhere since he seems to design them all.
What have we got here? Go Charlie, go Charlie, go Charlie. That's right, Charlie Rangel at his 80th birthday. Come on, let's see the move again. Can we back that up? There we go. Thank you. That's what we want to see. Let's just watch this for a little while.
(LAUGHTER)
Oh, my goodness. By the way, those are "Fotos" and you can see it for yourself at my blog at CNN.com/RickSanchez.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they meet the qualifications and you put your house on sale and you have a person that wants to buy it, and then it's your right as an American to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Big housing discrimination case unfolds. A black comedian and a radio personality alleges that he was denied a luxury home. Why? Wait a minute, I thought you weren't supposed to do that. He make answer offer on a house, $1.7 million. Suddenly the guy who's selling him the home finds out that he's black, on the record saying he doesn't want to sell his house to a black guy. Backs out. So the government is going after him now. I'm going to talk to him.
Also, a shark circles a surfer, and this is all caught on camera. Now, the guy is standing up on a surfboard with two great whites surrounding his surfboard and he doesn't have the good sense to leave? He's sitting there taking his picture. This is a guy who needs to have a question asked of him. What do you think that question is going to be?
We're going to be right back here on "RICK'S LIST."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Federal Reserve can do two things, right? It can expand the economy by hitting the gas, lowering interest rates, making it cheaper to borrow. People spend money, that creates products, businesses hire people. What does it do when it wants to slow an economy down? It hits the brakes. It raises interest rates, becomes expensive to borrow. People don't borrow and they don't spend. The problem is the need to hit the gas right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I grew up in south Florida so I spent a lot of time in and around the water. Like most people, sharks scare the hell out of me, especially the really big ones, and especially the ones that are known to be man-eaters like the tigers, even some of the bull sharks. But a great white -- I wouldn't be caught -- well, dead -- near one of these things.
This video is crazy. This is a guy who goes out and sees some sharks, right? He knows they're great white sharks. He wants to photograph them. So he gets on his surfboard. No, not a boat -- no, a surfboard, standing up on a surfboard, and he takes video.
Here, let's look at it. Ready? There it is. That's a great white. It looks farther away than it really is. It's right next to his surfboard.
This is Chuck Patterson joining me on the phone from Dana Point, California. Chuck, are you crazy?
(LAUGHTER)
CHUCK PATTERSON, PROFESSIONAL SURFER: Well, maybe a little bit. But, at the same time, I think I'm like a lot of people, intrigued by, you know, that magnificent animal.
SANCHEZ: Look, man, listen, I'm intrigued about a lot of things in life. But to be intrigued and put yourself in the area where there are two killer great white sharks, I mean, you had to know that if you fell into that water there's a good chance they might just take a bite out of you just for the hell of it, right? And they would kill you.
PATTERSON: You're right, definitely. But I think, you know, in the last two years, doing the standup paddling, being on my surfboard and we had such a great vantage point looking down, versus a surfer just sitting in the water with his legs in the water. We've been starting to see a lot more sea life. And these sharks --
SANCHEZ: Let me just stop you real quick. I just saw something there. At the very end there -- and we'll keep watching this. Stay with me, folks. At the very end, you see he comes really close to you and then does a quick 180 degrees turn and slaps your surfboard with his fin.
PATTERSON: Yes.
SANCHEZ: These things are so bad he could have knocked you over accidentally. Hell, he could have knocked you over not accidentally because he wanted to, right?
PATTERSON: You're right. It was a pretty intense moment, I have to say that there's definitely fear involved as well. But I think at that point I was just so intrigued.
SANCHEZ: What a story. Listen, I've got to let you go because we've got breaking news coming in. I'm so glad you had a chance to join us. And, boy, what a story you've got to tell your grand kids. I'm glad you're here to share it with us and not in some shark's stomach.
Dan Simon is joining us now with breaking news on Prop 8 from California. And Dan, I think you're on the phone with us, right? What have you got?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Same-sex marriages can resume in California, can resume. However, they will not be able to go forward until August 18 at 5:00 Pacific time. So the judge releasing his stay order, allowing same sex marriages to resume in California, but not until August 18th. I have a copy of the ruling in my hand. Let me just read from it briefly. It says "None of the factors the court weighs in considering the motion to stay favors granting a stay."
That's legalese, but the bottom line here is that obviously for same-sex marriage couples, a huge victory today. Same-sex marriages can resume in California beginning on August 18.
Now, that doesn't stop the other side, the pro Prop 8 people from trying to get an emergency appeal on this order, if that makes any sense. They can go to the ninth circuit and try to have this ruling overturned. But in the meantime, barring any sort of legal action from the ninth circuit, you will start to see gay and lesbian couples get married in California starting on August 18, Rick.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting because all day long, what's today? Today is August 12, right? What are we talking about here?
SIMON: Six days.
SANCHEZ: This is not until Wednesday of next week. Wednesday of next week is when they officially can begin.
You know, this thing has almost been ceremonious. People have already been preparing for the eventuality of it. I'll read to you now just from some of the notes we got today. The judge has, in fact, lifted the ban. That means same-sex couples will and can now get married in California, but they still have to wait another six days until next Wednesday.
Here's what was the plan today. Officials are ready to immediately start marrying gay couples once a San Francisco judge lifts the ban -- blah, blah, blah. It says they're ready to go between 9:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. Monday West Hollywood city officials said in a statement.
So they had already put provisos in at city hall where judges and city officials were there to actually perform the ceremony of people getting married. And as you heard from Jeff Toobin a little while ago, people were actually standing by because as soon as they heard a decision, boom, they were going to put their hands up and get married.
Mayor Villaraigosa said he would even be taking part in one of these ceremonies as soon as it happened. That was all going to be happening soon here after this judge's order came in. Well, guess what? Part of the news is the ban has been lifted. The other part of the news is, not so fast. They can't do this until next Wednesday.
Dan, do we have an understanding yet as to what prompted the judge to make this decision?
SIMON: You know, we really don't, Rick. Maybe this was an effort to allow clerks in the various counties to get their affairs in order before they start allowing marriages to occur. It might be to allow the other side to appeal this ruling before it goes into effect on the 18th. You just don't know. But it is interesting that he did allow almost a week to go by, allowing almost a week to go by before same-sex marriages can resume, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right, I'm looking here now on my Outlook. Is this from Dave? Here it is. I've got it now. It just came up on my Outlook. This is the decision, I believe, in this case. But before I move forward and read it to you, let me bring Jeffrey Toobin in. Toobs, what do you know?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He denied the stay. Same-sex marriages will proceed, but not until August 18, which does give the supporters of Proposition 8, Charles Cooper and the lawyers in that legal team, a chance to go to the ninth circuit court of appeals and ask them to impose a stay, or even another possibility is to go to Justice Anthony Kennedy, the justice of the Supreme Court who supervises the ninth circuit, all the states in the western part of the country, and ask him to impose a stay.
So as the status quo now is, same-sex marriages will become legal in California on August 18 at 5:00, Pacific time, unless the supporters of Proposition 8 can get a higher court to overturn this turning.
SANCHEZ: And you said legal, right?
TOOBIN: Yes, legal. That's right. It's confusing with all the double and triple negatives. But same-sex marriage will be legal in the state of California, starting August 18 at 5:00, unless some higher court steps in.
SANCHEZ: It's like when I went to umpiring school. I was always taught never say "fair ball." Only say "foul ball," because when you scream them, they both sound very familiar. So just say "foul." Never say "fair." "Legal," "illegal" gets us a little confused sometimes.
The judge is saying that it is legal. I understand that this is now the second delay in this situation, and Jeff, can you explain to our audience why if the judge made a decision last week can't that just automatically go into effect. And now the judge is making another decision, which essentially affirms his first decision that people should be able to get married, even same-sex marriages.
But now he says we still can't do it. Not another week or six days until we can do that. What's going on? What's behind this?
TOOBIN: What's behind it, Rick, is that Judge Vaughn Walker is being cautious. He knows how controversial this issue is. He knows that this case is definitely going to be appealed. And it is not clear what the result of that appeal will be.
So he is giving the supporters of Proposition 8, who are the opponents of same-sex marriage the opportunity to have a higher court step in and intervene early on. He doesn't want to preempt the appeals process. So he's proceeding in a cautious manner. But, you know, in the scheme of things, by the speed at which the legal system operates, the difference between now and August 18 is not really all that great.
SANCHEZ: You're right, you're right.
TOOBIN: People can get married.
SANCHEZ: Realistically speaking, you're absolutely correct.
Let's take that shot live, let's take it full if we possibly can, raj. These are -- hey, Dan, you describe who these people are that we're looking at here. What's going on? How are people reacting there?
Sounds like Dan Simon is in the middle of an interview. Dan Simon, Rick Sanchez here. Yes, you're on the air. We're looking at this live picture. Tell us where it's from and tell us how people are reacting to this judge's decision there in California.
SIMON: Well, I'm just getting in front of city hall. It's about a block away from the courthouse. We can see a number of people in front of city hall with signs and rainbow flags. Obviously this is a gathering point for many same-sex couples who, quite honestly, Rick, you know, were hoping to actually go inside city hall and apply for a marriage certificate and get married today.
We know that that's not going to happen today. It's going to happen next week. It was a significant victory for their side. Nonetheless, this is a significant victory for their side. This will give the Prop 8 supporters an opportunity to appeal Judge Walker's decision, and we know they're going to do that.
We don't know how long it will take for the ninth circuit to weigh in on that appeal, nut nonetheless, here at city hall a lot of activity. We're going to try to talk to some of these folks momentarily as soon as I get in front of the camera. And I'm holding the ruling in my hand, rick, and we'll try to digest it together.
SANCHEZ: I would imagine though -- go ahead. I tell you what. Hey, Dan, get yourself in position. Let us know as soon as you're ready to go with these interviews because we are interested in getting reaction. We'll try an honestly get reaction from both sides of this controversial issue moving forward.
And we've got Jeff Toobin standing by as well and we'll do all of that right after the break. I'm Rick Sanchez. You're watching "RICK'S LIST" and we are all over the story as promised right here on CNN. We're going to be right back.
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SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back. The decision is in. In fact, I've got it right here in my hand. Robert, you got a shot of that right there? There it is. That's what it looks like. There's the decision that came in moments ago. There is the breaking news. The plaintiffs, Arnold Schwarzenegger in his official capacity as governor of California, the defendants, Dennis Hollingsworth, Darryl Martin Gutierrez, William Tam, Mark Jensen, so on and so on.
And then Jeffrey Toobin standing by now to take us through part of this. Jeffrey is our legal analyst. He knows all about these kinds of decisions, especially a decision like this that is headed to the Supreme Court.
I'll read you the final part of this, final chapter in the whole thing and you tell me what it means. Ready? "None of the factors the court weighs in considering the motion to stay favors granting a stay. Accordingly, proponents' motion for a stay is denied. The clerk is directed to enter judgment forthwith.
That judgment shall be stayed until August 18th at 5:00 p.m., at which time defendants and all persons under the control or supervision shall cease to apply or enforce Proposition 8."
Looks pretty cut and dry. Is there anything else, anything there that we need to pay attention to?
TOOBIN: Well, in plain English what he is saying is "I was right the first time. Prop 8 is unconstitutional. There's no -- nothing I've heard since the decision last week has changed my mind, so go ahead and overturn Prop 8 and let gay people start to get married again in California."
He is though delaying that one week, until August 18th, to allow the supporters of Proposition 8 to go to a higher court and get it appealed. That is going to be an interesting question, whether they do that.
I assume, Charles Cooper, I haven't heard yet, but I assume Charles Cooper who was the lead lawyer for the Proposition 8 supporters will go to the ninth circuit and we will have another round of briefing which, you know, could reach a very different result.
This is a very controversial case. Different judges are likely to see it differently, so I -- I think it is likely that gay marriage will come into law on August 18th, but it is still not a sure thing because higher courts may see this issue very differently.
SANCHEZ: What do we know about this particular judge and the problems that he has coming into this case given what's being said by some of the opponents of this decision that he's made thus far?
TOOBIN: Well, Judge Vaughn Walker is a very well-known judge in California. He's the chief judge of what's called the northern district of California, which is San Francisco north. He was appointed to the bench by Ronald Reagan. He is known as kind of a libertarian conservative.
What's come out in the press by a lot, in a fairly universally acknowledged way, is that Vaughn Walker himself is gay. He's never denied that. He's never tried to cover that up. SANCHEZ: Yes.
TOOBIN: Some of the supporters of Prop 8 have said that he should have recused himself because of that. I think frankly that's a pretty ridiculous argument. It wasn't raised -- it wasn't raised by the plaintiffs in this -- by the defendants in this case. You know, African-American judges --
SANCHEZ: Why would that be -- I was just -- it's funny. I think you were going in the same light as I was just going to ask you, Jeffrey. You know, I'm Hispanic. Does that mean I can't make decisions based on things that affect other Hispanics? If I'm an African-American, can I not make decisions?
Is that what it would come down to here, to say just because he's gay he can't make decisions that affect gay people?
TOOBIN: I mean, that's why he hasn't recused himself and he shouldn't recuse himself, because, you know, African-American judges have made decisions about civil rights issues. Women judges have made decisions about gender issues. That is not how we assign -- that's not the rule for recusal in the United States.
But you can see why people who are politically-minded raise the issue, and even though it's a loser of an issue. So, you know, that's -- it has certainly come up in the coverage of this case.
SANCHEZ: But let's face it. You know this and I know this. As much as we'd like to think that justice is completely blind and that everything is totally objective and there's no subjective decisions made in our justice system, some people will use that as exigency to move on his decision, to -- I guess what I'm trying to say is it will make them more apt to want to challenge his decision. Isn't that just common sense?
TOOBIN: Certainly it has already been, in the press if not in the courts, one ground on which Judge Walker's decision has been attacked.
And, you know, to your larger point, look, you know, law is not separate from politics. We talk about who appointed which judge because it matters. You know, there are four Democratic-appointed justices on the United States Supreme Court at the time -- Ruth Ginsburg, Sonia Sotomayor, Steven Breyer, and now Elena Kagan. They see issues differently from the justices appointed by Republican presidents. That is just a fact.
And it's no, you know -- there's no reason to, you know, pussyfoot about that. The fact is law and politics are very close, and, you know, identity politics matter. A lot of people think it's significant, think it's important that there are now three women judges on the Supreme Court for the first time.
But, you know, whether that affects how they rule in an individual case is hard to say, but people care about the identity of judges. SANCHEZ: We're going to be right back with more with Jeffrey Toobin and Dan Simon rounding up some folks there who are, well, showing their feelings about this ruling in California. Stay with us. This is RICK'S LIST.
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