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Rick's List

Mosque Controversy Escalates; Former Israeli Soldier Under Fire

Aired August 16, 2010 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Well, how do you do the Islamic community center/mosque controversy in a different way? You're saying, well, we have probably heard it all by now, right? No, because now we are inserting one name, Fred Phelps.

Let's do the LIST.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making the LIST in prime time.

AARON COHEN, FORMER ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES COMMANDER AND AUTHOR OF "THE BROTHERHOOD OF WARRIORS": In every organization, there is an idiot.

SANCHEZ: And that is an Israeli talking about a picture sure to set off the Palestinian community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would never lay my hands on an officer.

SANCHEZ: The man on the phone, see him there in the corner, he says the officer punched him and pushed him to the ground. The officer says, no, it was the other way around. You decide.

FRED PHELPS, PROTESTING AGAINST HOMOSEXUALITY: You're just a hysterical nincompoop, like all the rest of them.

SANCHEZ: I may be, and according to a court, he has a right to be offensive. Freedom of religion means freedom of religion.

SEN. JOHN ENSIGN (R), NEVADA: I'm not going to answer any of the questions because I'm focused on doing my job right now. All that stuff will take care of itself over time.

SANCHEZ: I asked straight-out about his affair and possible ethics violations. Now he wants your money too defend himself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. So glad you are here with us once again.

We top the LIST tonight with the question of religious freedom. It's right there, right, in the First Amendment. We have all read it. It says even a man who shows up at a funeral of a dead U.S. soldier and starts screaming at the top of his lungs about things like homosexuality and God knows what else, that man has a right to do that, no matter how much we may despise him for what he is doing to that family.

Then there's the president of the United States Friday seemingly defending that very same First Amendment right here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground.

But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: OK, you say, I get it. I heard what he said. That is the president on Friday.

But this is the president talking to our own Ed Henry Saturday, the day after Friday, and making it sound as if what we just heard him say isn't really what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My intention was to simply let people know what I thought, which was that in this country, we treat everybody equally, in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion. I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making a decision to put a mosque there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Jessica Yellin is our national political correspondent.

Is this, Jessica, another case of this president making a point about something he seems to have conviction about on one day and then seeming to do what's politically expedient the next?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Or it's him trying to control the way his comments are interpreted by the media. It's almost an excessive concern with the way we frame his words.

I mean, look, Rick, the bottom line is, Americans say we want politicians who speak the truth and aren't poll-driven on every issue. Here the president spoke what seems to be true for him despite the political winds. And while we are debating the media savvy of the strategy, the real heat in this debate is the fact that the president took an unpopular position, and either we like a president who will do that or we don't.

He seems to be a little sensitive to the fact that a lot of Americans didn't like it once he spoke...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But doesn't he have the Constitution on his side in this argument? How hard is it to stand up next to the Constitution of the United States of America? The constitutional issue here is irrefutable.

Even if I don't like it, the court says that Nazis can march in Skokie, Illinois, even if Jewish Americans will sit there and watch with tears coming out of their eyes, because that sacred piece of paper says so.

Today, a judge decided that the most despicable of all protesters has a constitutional right -- this guy, Fred Phelps, has the right to scream the F-word and curse homosexuals at the funerals of dead Marines and U.S. soldiers.

By the way, I talked to this guy. Jessica, I interviewed this guy once doing this 8:00 clock show. Listen to what he's like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Why would you choose this as a venue, a man who is minding his own business, trying to mourn the death of his son, who many would consider a war hero? Sir, go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

PHELPS: ... believe the truth, doesn't want to hear your truth. You're just a hysterical nincompoop, like all the rest of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: So, I'm a hysterical nincompoop.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Jessica, if our Constitution is so sacred and so absolute as to absolve Fred Phelps, of all people, how can the president then not stand by it while making this argument against Republicans who are obviously trying to -- I get it -- it happens -- both sides do this -- they are trying to tweak him politically.

YELLIN: Right.

And, look, that is the argument that the president made or attempted to make, that the builders have a right to place a mosque there, as surely as anyone has a right to speak freely or practice their religion freely.

The problem is, is, the court can rule on a legal matter. The president doesn't get an absolute ruling on this issue politically. And there is so much emotional heat around this, especially -- I mean, look, we are still talking about it. It is not about jobs. It is not about mortgages. It is not about things that necessarily impact everybody every day, but it gets to people's emotions.

SANCHEZ: Well, is interesting because the guy is a constitutional lawyer. I mean, the president of the United States, say what you want about him, he's constitutional lawyer.

YELLIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: If there's one thing he ought to know, it is this. By the way, this gets even more interesting. Harry Reid now gets into this thing.

You know as well as anybody, you have covered him more than anybody, he is fighting for his political life.

YELLIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: He almost -- he puts out this statement today where it almost sounds like he is agreeing with the president's adversaries on this.

Here, take a listen. This is from Harry Reid's office. Do we have that up? Let me get that for you. It says: "The First Amendment protects freedom of religion," right? "The First Amendment protects freedom of religion. Senator Reid respects that, but" -- big but -- "thinks that the mosque should be built someplace else."

I mean, look, I get it. And maybe you're going to explain it that way, so let me phrase this in the form of a question. Is this just a case of political necessity on the part of Harry Reid?

YELLIN: Well, he does -- I mean, the M.O. here is to make it as much of a non-issue as possible. The last thing a Democrat wants to be doing is debating some hot-button issue that's not even happening in their state.

So, he is splitting the difference here. He did go on later in the statement to attack Republicans for not supporting funding for 9/11 first-responders who are having health care issues, which is his way of accusing the Republicans of hypocrisy.

But, you know, he is trying to protect his political hide and just neutralize this issue. Democrats would love this to go away now.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But he is agreeing with Republicans on the -- in fact, this isn't Rick Sanchez saying that. This is -- you ready? You ready for this, folks? You ready for this, Jessica. Sharron Angle is saying this. Let me show you a tweet from Sharron Angle.

Take it, Mark. Put your camera on that Twitter board over there. "Nice of you to join us, Harry Reid."

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: This comes from Sharron. And wait. There is another one. The Newtster has just tweeted us here. Newt Gingrich has just tweeted Rick Sanchez, where he says -- that would be me, by the way -- "Ground Zero mosque imam is apologist for Sharia law and calls U.S. accessory to 9/11. Won't call Hamas terrorist organization, facts Obama forgot to mention."

So, he's getting it from both sides, even when some think that he is agreeing with him. The whole thing gets complicated. But I'm so glad that we had this time together, Jessica. Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

YELLIN: Thanks, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: In every organization, there is an idiot, and this girl is an idiot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: That is a former Israeli soldier. That's right, an Israeli soldier, saying -- using those words to describe another Israeli soldier and what she did. What she did to Palestinian detainees is being called stupid and insensitive. And it is creating a lot of heat internationally and we are going to tell you what is going on with that.

Also next, the breaking news from California, same-sex marriages. Have you heard this just within the last couple of hours? They are on hold again while the Prop 8 appeals process plays out.

By the way, I keep a list of people tweeting about Prop 8 for and against the controversial measure. You know this. Jerry Brown, attorney general of California, avid tweeter, he is sharing his thoughts in the form of a Japanese proverb tonight. We thought you might find this interesting. "Fall down seven times, stand up eight." See that there at the bottom? "Fall seven times, stand up eight," Japanese proverb. Thought you would want to see that. This is your LIST. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

That's right. That's our breaking news banner. And it means that our roundup starts tonight with some breaking news. Here it is. Same-sex couples in California are facing a setback once again. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco has blocked same-sex marriage for now.

Earlier this month, as you know, a federal judge ruled to allow them, but the court of appeals said today that it wants to hear arguments on the constitutionality of such unions before giving them the go-ahead, which was supposed to be, what, this Thursday, right? So, for now, it is all on hold again.

Number two, take a look at the devastation in Pakistan. You know, this story is growing day by day. A fifth of the country is underwater. More than 1,400 people are now dead. Some 900,000 homes have been damaged, 900,000. Just today, four more U.S. Marine Corps CH-46 helicopters arrived in Pakistan to try and help. That brings the number of U.S. helicopters there to assist with flood relief to 11.

You can also help. Just go to our Web site. We will tell you what you can do. You can link in at CNN.com/Impact, as in Impact Your World. And, yes, you can.

Number three, the mother of two dead children is under arrest tonight and South Carolina police say she could be involved in their deaths. Two young boys drowned in the Edisto River early this morning. And when police got to the scene, they found a Chrysler sedan underwater and the children -- you're going to hate this -- the children, just 1 and 2 years of age, trapped inside.

The local sheriff telling CNN affiliate -- you saw this story on the air earlier on RICK'S LIST as we broke it -- telling our affiliate WIS that the 29-year-old mother walked almost a mile before even looking for help. She is charged with leaving the scene of the accident, but police are saying that there is a possibility that there is even more to this story. We will obviously continue to follow it.

Meanwhile, number four. You have seen this video. All right, right there, that's -- that's where the problem begins. This is pandemonium in California. You see a little bit of that fire in the background there? You see the smoke coming up? The people are trying to tell the drivers, no, stop, there's just been an accident. A truck speeds down an off-road race course, plows right into a crowd.

Once the dust settles, people realize this is a horrific situation. It was an accident that left eight people dead, people who were just there to watch this race, but maybe got just too darn close. The driver won't face criminal charges. That is what a spokesman for the California Highway Patrol said earlier. The driver's name is Brett Sloppy. He was behind the wheel of the truck. On Facebook, he says he is devastated about what happened, and police say that he has been forthcoming and cooperative.

This Saturday crash sent four people to the hospital in serious condition as well, and five others had minor to moderate injuries.

Michael Douglas has just made an announcement that I want to share with you. It's about his health, this as one of his most anticipated movies premieres next month. Stand by for that.

Also, you want to drive Palestinians over the edge? Do you want to do that? Well, then put pictures on Facebook of an Israeli soldier mugging for the camera next to blindfolded Palestinian detainees. Tell me she didn't do that. That is what the Israeli government is saying tonight. Uh-oh. That's next. Stay right there. This is your national conversation. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Topping our international list, a set of pictures that is really embarrassing Israel. These are the photos of an Israeli soldier who put them on her Facebook page. It's hard not to look at them and not say that they are insensitive, some would say downright tasteless.

The woman is posing or mugging for the camera in front of blindfolded Palestinian detainees. She has since left the IDF. The Palestinian suspects suspected of what? We don't know. What she did is being called stupid. Israelis are saying this is not how we do business -- quote -- "These actions are ugly and callous." That's a statement from the Israeli Defense Forces. Details of the incident are now being forwarded up the chain of command.

So, the Israeli government saying it is an aberration, one bad apple. That's what they say. In fact I talked today to a former Israeli soldier. Do we have that sound? This is Aaron Cohen.

Go ahead, Kell (ph).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: In every organization, there is an idiot, and this girl is an idiot.

And that's the truth. You know, the IDF is no different than any police department, or other government organization, or CNN, for that matter. You're going to have people who do very stupid things.

She does not reflect the operations or the military in any way whatsoever, and she needs to be made an example of.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: That's where the argument starts, because we are hearing folks saying, no, it's not just one bad apple. Have a look at this.

This is from nation Israeli, in this case an Israeli human rights activist. "The horrible pictures demonstrate a norm of treating Palestinians like objects, instead of human beings, treatment that disregards their feelings as humans and their right to privacy."

So, we are arguments on both sides of this issue, not about what she did, but rather what it really represents.

Joining me now from Washington is Hussein Ibish, senior fellow of the American Task Force on Palestine.

Thank you so much for being with us, sir.

HUSSEIN IBISH, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN TASK FORCE ON PALESTINE: Thank you, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Do you accept Israel's position that this is essentially just a bad apple? Look, they are coming out and they are calling her actions ugly and callous.

IBISH: Sure. Yes.

Well, in the sense of the mockery and making a spectacle of the prisoners, it is unusual. And I think, in that sense, that is right.

Now, I think Mr. Cohen, who you just had a clip of, is right. She has to be made an example of. In other words, in the specific individual case this is a test case. It's a test for the Israeli government, the Israeli military, the Israeli establishment. Are they just going to be satisfied calling it an be aberration or are they going to do something about it? They really do have to take some measure to show that this is not OK.

SANCHEZ: What do you want them to do?

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: No, but wait, wait, wait. What do you want them to do?

(CROSSTALK)

IBISH: I'm not an expert -- I'm not an expert on Israeli law. But if it really is as egregious as -- if they think it is as egregious as they say they think, then they can certainly do something, if not to this individual, at least to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

But the point is the pictures do demonstrate something much beyond this individual -- tasteless and insensitive individual, which is the power that Israeli soldiers have over Palestinians. I mean, people get -- Palestinians get detained daily arbitrarily. Israeli soldiers don't need any cause.

Palestinians are not citizens of Israel or any other state. They live under a foreign military occupation. They have virtually no rights, certainly virtually no enforceable rights, when it comes to the way Israeli soldiers treat them on a case-by-case, individual basis. They have almost no recourse at all if they are abused.

And there is a very long history of very well-documented abuse, including, last year, in a case from children -- Defense of Children International, 100 cases of Palestinian children in 2009 alone, which was, by the way, a very quiet year, with almost no violence in the West Bank, reporting abuse, 70 reporting beatings, 12 reporting sexual abuse, et cetera.

So, you are talking about a very vulnerable population here and a relationship of dominance and subordination. The occupation is a system of control.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But here's the issue. Let's make some news here. You are on the air.

IBISH: Yes. Sure.

SANCHEZ: You're going to say, look, what they have done in this case, because it is hard to account for all the other things that are going out there, and this is a discussion that could go on forever and has been going on for 50, 60 years.

(CROSSTALK)

IBISH: Yes.

SANCHEZ: But if she took that picture and someone else had the camera and took the picture, you are looking, at the very least, a conspiracy of two people.

IBISH: Correct, more than one individual.

SANCHEZ: Exactly. Do you want the Israelis to conduct a thorough investigation and do what to these two people, even though -- even if they're not in the IDF anymore?

(CROSSTALK)

IBISH: I think it is very much in their interests to do it. I think they really need to, as Mr. Cohen said, make an example out of these people and demonstrate that this is not going to be tolerated.

But there is something much deeper here. What this shows is how corrosive the occupation is, not just for the Palestinians who suffer under it, but for the Israeli troops who are put into that situation. I mean, they don't all have to be tasteless and insensitive sadists, as this woman seems to be.

It could be a very well-adjusted, ordinary person, but if you are put into that situation for decades after decades, where you have to control another people who don't have any rights, it's very corrosive.

(CROSSTALK)

IBISH: And it really shows how both parties need an end to the occupation. It has the same effect -- this occupation is having the same effect on Israeli society as Palestinian extremism and rhetoric about martyrdom and all of that stuff has on Palestinian society.

This relationship is unhealthy and it has to be changed by ending the occupation and having two states living side by side in peace. Until we have that, these kind of things are going to happen, because they are structurally built into this relationship where one party has all the power and the other has no rights.

SANCHEZ: Hussein Ibish, thank you so much for sharing your perspective on the story.

IBISH: You're welcome, Rick. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Just like earlier today, we had the other perspective at 4:00. IBISH: Yes. I really appreciate it. Thank you, sir.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: No, no, my thanks to you.

All right. I want you to look at this. You see all those planes showing up on the radar? Look at all that lightning. Now, could one bolt bring an entire aircraft down?

It may be the reason a 737 crashed this morning. Now, I'm going to tell you how to up your odds of surviving.

Also, the world is changing before our very eyes. The top economies now have a brand-new order. Did you know that after you woke up this morning? I am going to take you through these.

Number five, Germany, its GDP is now $2.8 trillion. Number four, India at $3.9 trillion. The number-three economy in the world, Japan at $5.3 trillion. So, who's number two and who's number one? They are gaining on us, folks.

This is RICK'S LIST. We are going to be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back to RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez.

China is flexing its economic muscle. New figures are showing that the Chinese gross domestic product projected to reach $5.4 trillion by the end of the year, after surpassing Japan this summer, to become the number-two economy in the world. That's right. China now comes in at number two.

But the world's number-one economy, the United States of America, a whopping $14.8 trillion GDP. Don't get too comfy, though. Some economists are now saying they believe China could overtake the United States as soon as 10 years from now.

What is being described as a beat-down in Denver, and the police report that is being called everything from inaccurate to pure fiction. All right. I want you to take a look at this. Here is the video. And you will see just on the left side of your screen after police officers are engaged in the arrest of one suspect. Now, look over to the left side of your screen. You see that guy right there? He is talking on the phone.

Now, he seems to be calling his father to tell him about what is going on, because his father is in law enforcement. He doesn't seem to be overtly aggressive. But an officer is about to go over to him. And it appears that in the officer strikes him in the face and brings him down.

Watch. That officer, by the way, has been suspended without pay for at least three days as the investigation continues.

And Michael DeHerrera is the guy who was on the phone. He calls RICK'S LIST. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: The police officer says -- in fact, I have one of these things right here. I'm going to read what we're told the police officers say.

They say that you spun to your left, "attempting to strike me in the face," and that your fist was closed. We'll show that video again. But you, as we watch this video, take us through your version of what was going on here, Michael.

MICHAEL DEHERRERA, DENVER POLICE BEATING VICTIM: Well, it all happened really quickly. When I did call my dad, I was in a very frantic state, as you can see in the video. I was yelling into the phone saying, "Dad they're beating up Shawn (ph)! They're beating up Shawn (ph)!

My father was awoken by the phone call, so all he had to say was, "Calm down. I can't understand you. I can't understand you."

And I continued to say, "They're beating up Shawn (ph) They're beating up Shawn (ph). And by that time, that's when the cop is over there and then that's when he takes me down.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Well, let's watch this together again. Do you attempt at all to hit him or strike him?

DEHERRERA: No, not -- like...

SANCHEZ: Boom. Boom.

DEHERRERA: Clearly, on that video, one of my hands is holding my phone. The other hand is holding my arm that's holding my phone. There is no closed fist. There's no blading of my body. If anything, I become introverted into myself.

SANCHEZ: What do you make of the fact that the officer has already been disciplined?

DEHERRERA: I don't think it was the right disciplinary action that should have been taken. It really -- go ahead.

SANCHEZ: What would you want done?

DEHERRERA: I believe I agree with Richard Rosenthal, I think they should be fired, and if not, prosecuted for assault. I think if any one of us had done these actions and assaulted someone, we would all be in jail.

SANCHEZ: Well, what is worse, the fact that he hit you or the fact that he is being suspended for three days without pay for submitting an inaccurate report? In other words, it seems to me his own superiors are saying he lied. DEHERRERA: Yes, I think that is overall the worst. They are condoning and like trying to give us a linguistic backtwist as a way to get around on line. They should just blatantly put that they lied. I think they're condoning things. It was just filled out. I think it was -- it was horrible.

SANCHEZ: So you're saying he tried to cover his tracks by saying that you tried to strike him and further, that you were a threat because you had struck somebody else when you're here to say neither of those things were true?

DEHERRERA: No. And I think the video speaks more than anything. You can clearly see I'm not a threat. I don't interact with him in any way to lead him to believe that I'm a threat, and I don't make any actions previous to the video for him to believe that.

SANCHEZ: Check some more with the Denver Department of Safety. They responded with a very lengthy statement and I want to read you parts of this moving forward here. It says, "The video does not tell the entire story. While there can certainly be debate whether the force was excessive or inappropriate, looking at all available evidence, I do not believe excessive or inappropriate force could be proven."

Again, that's from officials with the Denver public safety unit. And on the subject of the officer telling lies in the police statement, the safety manager says, quote, "I personally view the inconsistencies more as misperceptions than as a willful, intentional or knowing deception." So, there you go.

Now, talk about nerve. I will tell you who the guy is who wants you, taxpayers, to help bail him out with legal bills after he had a situation where he cheated on his wife. We'll have that story for you in just a little bit. He's topping the list that you don't want to be on.

Also, oh, oh, Mel Gibson crashes his Maserati and we're all hoping he didn't lose his temper. We'll bring you that story as well. Stay there. Deep breaths, Mel. That's what's trending with Brooke. She's coming up right up in your national conversation. This is RICK'S LIST.

Again, I'm not a police officer but I have handled stories like this enough to know that that man right there is doing nothing wrong, certainly not anything that --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And here's Brooke Baldwin. This is where we bring you what is trending and what people are talking about. General McChrystal.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, headed to Yale this fall. Pretty big announcement out of that New Haven University that retired four-star general will be teaching a class this fall. In fact, he will be a senior fellow with the Jackson Institute for Global Affairs. Now, today's announcement comes now less than two months after resigning under fire as U.S. commander in Afghanistan for those controversial comments. Not only really his staff made about administration officials to "Rolling Stone" magazine. So we have a couple of tweets for you with regard to this story, "Yale Daily News." Take a look with me.

"Yale Daily News" newspaper saying some spots in McChrystal's seminar at Yale will be reserved for undergraduates. So what did I do? I tweeted the student paper back and asked what we really want to know, how do students feel about him coming to campus? And here is how they responded. Actually, re-tweeted one of their reporter's tweet saying, kind of wish Michael Hastings were teaching, too. You remember Michael Hastings. You had that first interview out of Afghanistan. He was the writer who basically wrote the profile that essentially ended McChrystal's military career.

What does the retired four-star general say about the post? Here is what he's saying in a statement. "I'm extremely excited to be teaching at Yale and I look forward to sharing my experience and insights as a career military officer."

SANCHEZ: And every single person who has ever worked with the man says that he's the consummate professional when it comes to all military affairs.

BALDWIN: Totally.

SANCHEZ: Mel Gibson --

BALDWIN: Mel Gibson.

SANCHEZ: -- sometimes not the consummate professional and apparently he had --

BALDWIN: Yes, got the accident report. Maserati in Malibu, Mel Gibson. Here's what's going on.

Last night, he crashed his $120,000 car. We're not talking cheap car here, folks, this is last night, Malibu into a hillside. Police say he was a gentleman, quoting the report. Also extremely cooperative at the scene. Remember, far cry from that anti-Semitic rant he directed at the sheriff's department, L.A. sheriff's a couple of years ago when they pulled him over for suspected drunk driving. Gibson was driving alone and according to the report, DUI is not, is not suspected in the incident. So, what in the world caused this? The report simply says for unknown reasons, Mr. Gibson steered his car to the right and struck the rock hillside. Of course, we wondered could it possibly be paparazzi chasing him since he's been involved in this whole bitter custody battle with his ex-girlfriend, but the Gibson publicist told CNN "not that I'm aware of." Report, clear and warm weather, only guy in the car. We don't know.

SANCHEZ: It is what it is. Michael Douglas is in the news as well? This is his health?

BALDWIN: He is. It is his health. It's just a brief add-on. CNN has now confirmed tonight that Michael Douglas has a tumor. He has a tumor on his throat. He's 65 years old, Oscar-winning actor. He will undergo eight weeks of radiation and chemotherapy. But here's the good news, I know it sounds kind of scary but the spokesperson says that the doctors expect him to make a full recovery. In fact in a statement, Michael Douglas says, quote-unquote, "I am very optimistic, very optimistic." "Wall Street 2" his movie --

SANCHEZ: Great movie.

BALDWIN: -- great movie, sequel coming out September 24th.

SANCHEZ: First one is half as good -- if the second one is half as good as the first one --

BALDWIN: Kind of a classic.

SANCHEZ: -- we're in for a great movie. Well, we wish him well.

BALDWIN: We do. We wish him very well.

SANCHEZ: Ahead on "The List That U Don't Want 2 Be On," talk about adding insult to injury. A politician who's in the middle of an ethics investigation wants you to pay for his legal fees. We'll tell you who it is.

And then next, a plane that may have been hit by lightning crashes. Incredibly, almost everybody makes it out alive. But did you know that there are things you can actually do to improve your odds if something like that ever happens when you're on a plane. Really?

BALDWIN: Really?

SANCHEZ: Isn't that curious?

BALDWIN: Really?

SANCHEZ: I'm curious.

BALDWIN: What are you going to tell me?

SANCHEZ: Give me one more really.

BALDWIN: Really?

SANCHEZ: As we go to break, I'm going to speak to a survival expert. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right. I've got some amazing images to show of you a jetliner that went down early this morning. This is a 737 that crashed and broke in two as it was trying to land on the island of San Andreas in Colombia. Now that makes these pictures more amazing. What makes these pictures even more amazing than that is that nearly all of the 131 people board, including six Americans, survived. One passenger was killed and many were injured, but again, only one person died.

Now, look at these pictures and try and figure that out. What is just as remarkable is the possible cause, lightning. There were 11 lightning strikes with six miles of the airport around at the time of this morning's crash and a lot of us who, you know, fly regularly got to thinking about that. Think about the number of planes flying around this country every single day.

Look at this map. Look at all the flights in the U.S. between 4:30 and 5:30 Eastern this afternoon alone. Now, look at all those flights filling up the screen. And then look at those graphics showing where lightning hit about the same hour today. That makes you think, doesn't it?

By the way, before I go to my guest on this segment who's going to take us through this conversation, let me show you a tweet that we just got a little while ago from Air Colombia, Aires Colombia. This is in Spanish, so I'll interpret it for you. (Speaking in a foreign language) We are working and investigating with all the air nautical officials para determiner, to try and determine the causes, las causas de lo sucedido, which the causes of what happened."

Boy, and I saw that on the fly. They just threw that tweet up that for you. Glad I was able to translate it for you. That's the very latest from official there who seemed to be saying with that tweet, we're still investigating this thing. It's not for sure that it was, in fact, a lightning strike that brought it down, although information would lead us to believe it was, given the fact that there was a lot of lightning strikes just as the airplane was getting ready to touch down.

Ben Sherwood has interviewed plane crash survivors around the world and aviation experts who study plane crash survival. He is the consummate expert on this. He's the founder of "The Survivors Club." He has a best-selling book of the very same name.

OK, Ben, I'm all ears. How often does lightning actually hit planes and how often does it bring planes down?

BEN SHERWOOD, "THE SURVIVORS CLUB": Lightning hits planes all the time. You showed the graphic and, in fact, one study says that for every jet in the domestic fleet, lightning hits it, on average, one time per year. So, lightning is striking all the time but when you look at the government database on how frequently these strikes actually cause an incident, in the last 50 years there have been 41 incidents, so it's very, very rare and it's not something that passengers need to really worry about. They should be much more concerned about lightning on the tarmac or lightning when they're going from their car to the airport than lightning in an airplane.

SANCHEZ: What do the airlines do to make sure that a lightning doesn't take down the plane?

SHERWOOD: Well, for years, they have known that lightning is an issue and they make these planes very safe. They have got all kinds of equipment on board, including on the nose cone to protect the radar in the nose cone. They have got all kinds of sophisticated equipment to make sure that the fuel tank is safe from lightning sparks. So, the airplane companies are very aware of lightning as an issue and compared to say turbulence or wind shear, lightning is really a very minor challenge or problem.

SANCHEZ: Is there anything, just in general, by the way, since I got you on and you are the ultimate expert on this, is there anything that we-all need to know that we don't think about or do when we get on an airplane to ensure our safety, even perhaps our survivability?

SHERWOOD: Absolutely. You know, I went to the airplane crash survival course in Oklahoma City where the government trains people on how to survive plane crashes and there were a bunch of things you can do. The first thing, number one, is to sit within five rows of any emergency exit. When they study the seating charts on airplane crashes where people have actually perished, they find that five rows is sort of that magic number. If you're within five rows of any exit, the front, the back, the middle, your chance of survival increase.

The second thing you could do is to have a Plan A and a Plan B. Actually pay attention to the safety briefing and be ready for anything to happen because, and this is the third rule, pay attention during the first three minutes and the last eight minutes of flight, because plus three/minus eight, those first three minutes, the last eight minutes, that's when 80 percent of airplane incidents and accidents happen, so you've got to be ready to go. And then the fourth rule, and this comes from all the experts in aviation safety, is relax, enjoy your flight, because the chances of your dying on your next airplane flight in the domestic United States on a jet, 1 in 35 million. One in 35 million. So you could you fly every day on average for the next 60, 70, 80,000 years --

SANCHEZ: There you go.

SHERWOOD: -- and nothing is going to happen to you.

SANCHEZ: You remind me of my good friend, Larry King. He always leaves them laughing. Thanks for the good news there at the end. Ben Sherwood, our air nautical expert.

Oh, speaking of Larry King, look who's back from vaca (ph). Hey, Larry, how are you?

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": I'm back and I'm fine. Had a great time. I watched you a lot along the way, too. It's a lot of fun.

SANCHEZ: I'm glad that you did. Larry is back. Hey, what do you have tonight? I understand you've got some --

KING: Oh.

SANCHEZ: -- you've got some curious interviews coming up tonight.

SANCHEZ: Yes, it's the parents of Pat Tillman are with us tonight. First time they're appearing together. They are divorced couple. Pat was the NFL star who quit the career in the middle of a budding career to enlist in the Army. They're talking about a new documentary. It chronicles the circumstances surrounding the son's death in Afghanistan and an incredible government attempt to cover up the fact that it was the result of friendly fire. Their incredible fight for the truth and they've been carrying on. They've got a documentary coming out. Their book is out about this. It's the full hour on Pat Tillman -- the Pat Tillman tragedy at the top of the hour, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Yes. You know, it's a father's story. I mean, it's a family -- it's a family story. What a story. Good get. I'll look forward to watching that. Thanks, Larry. Welcome back, by the way.

KING: Thanks, babe.

SANCHEZ: Ahead --

KING: Thanks, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Thanks.

Another miracle landing. You've got to see this one. Everybody got away safely and we're going to have the incredible story. This is coming up in "Fotos."

Also, you know who makes the list in tonight's "List U Don't Want 2 Be On"? Here's a hint. He wants to you help him beat an ethics investigation with money. We're going to tell you who he is in just a minute.

Stay there. This is your list and we're -- we're coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: There is something for most Americans that is infuriating about a politician who sticks his hand out and begs after he's done something wrong. But what makes it worse is when he asks the people that he apparently betrayed for help, specifically for cash. It's time for "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On."

This is Nevada Senator John Ensign. He is the Republican at the center of the criminal and ethics investigation. Remember last year, Ensign admitted to having an extra-marital affair with the wife of his top aide and best friend. The guy was his chief of staff. And oh, yes, mistress also worked for Ensign's campaign. But before the affair goes public, Ensign says his parents wrote the couple a check for $96,000. Ensign, as was disclosed here on RICK'S LIST extensively, is also being investigated for trying to get lobbying gigs for the husband of his mistress and that could possibly be illegal.

Now, here's some of the conversation I had with the senator when he was shocked to find out that I wanted him to answer some very direct questions about this scandal. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SENATOR JOHN ENSIGN (R), NEVADA: Listen, Rick, I have commented on all I was going to comment on that. And we told you when we're going to come on here that I'm going to be focused on health care. I'm going to be focused on the economy. My state is hurting right now as badly as any state in the country, and I'm focused on doing everything I can to help Nevada.

SANCHEZ: But the problem -- but here's the problem.

ENSIGN: That is what I'm going to focus on.

SANCHEZ: I understand that.

ENSIGN: So I'm not going to answer your questions. You can ask it all the ways you want to ask it.

SANCHEZ: OK.

ENSIGN: But I'm not going to answer your questions.

SANCHEZ: But here's the problem. There is a law that says that someone who is an aide for a senator like yourself has to wait one year before they start lobbying. There is reason to believe, Senator -- in fact, there's a lot of reason to believe here that Doug Hampton, who was your aide, was lobbying within that one year. If that's the case, sir, that's an illegality, and something that you owe an explanation to your constituents about if you had any involvement in either that lobbying or helping him get those lobbying gigs.

ENSIGN: Right, Rick. First of all, that's his problem, that's not my problem. But at the same time, I'm not going to answer any other questions because I'm focused on doing my job right now. All that stuff will take care of itself over time. We've said we will cooperate with any investigations and but at this moment, I'm just going to focus on being the best senator I can be for my state.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: So, here's what's on the record now. Senator Ensign is asking supporters for money to help pay his lawyers. He has apparently cheated on his wife and he's got involved in an alleged cover-up that his own Republican colleagues have wanted him to answer for. But now, he's also wanted to use it to collect money blaming, quote, "a liberal organization for his legal problems."

For the record, Senator Ensign voted to impeach President Bill Clinton after his affair with Monica Lewinsky. Here's the bottom line. The senator did, in fact, cheat on his wife, according to all reports and himself and seem to have tried to hide it by possibly violating ethics rules. The Justice Department is also investigating him. And now, with unemployment in Nevada at 14 percent, he wants his constituents to help pay for his legal fees.

Here's an idea sent to me on my Twitter page by one of you. Have his parents just write another check. Republican Senator John Ensign, at the very top of "The List That U Don't Want 2 Be On" tonight.

Coming up in "Fotos," two dramatic rescues and two rescued zebras running amok in the streets of a major U.S. capital. How does that happen? That's next. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back to RICK'S LIST. I'm Rick Sanchez. They do say that any landing that you can walk away from is a good one. In a pinch, swimming away works as well. Let's do "Fotos."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah, dios mio.

SANCHEZ: The pilot of this Cessna was forced to make a water landing in Lake Erie after the plane lost power, hitting the water 150 feet from a nearby ferry boat. The pilot and three passengers were able to get a hold of life vests thrown from the ship and were soon pulled aboard to safety. The plane then sank.

Dramatic video out of Colombia as well. Watch this. This is where flash floods washed through the city late last week. Here you see a good Samaritan rescuing two women from a taxi stranded by the fast flowing waters. The taxi itself was washed away moments after the rescuer pulled the girls clear.

And two zebras running through traffic in Sacramento, this over the weekend. They evaded animal control officers for more than an hour, we understand. The zebras were being loaded onto a truck when a dog spooked them and then set them off, like running really fast. The zebras, by the way, have since been rounded up and are now safe on the owner's ranch. That is "Fotos Del Dia."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ah, dios mio.

SANCHEZ: That is it for RICK'S LIST. I'll look for you again tomorrow at three, four and eight. Here now, "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.