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Rick's List

Ground Zero Islamic Center Controversy Continues; Emotional Reunions For Military Families; Soccer at 50; Woman Wishes to Wear Islamic Hijab While Working at Disney; Some New Orleans Neighborhoods Slow to Recover After Hurricane Katrina; People Increasingly Dipping into Retirement Funds Early

Aired August 20, 2010 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Topping the LIST today: the proposed Islamic community center and mosque near Ground Zero in New York. We're going to talk about this in a way that you have never heard before, because here's the latest wrinkle: construction workers who say they will not build it. They won't build it.

One of those workers is here to explain to us why he feels this way, his stand on this.

But, first, I want to show you, give you a little bit of background here. Here's the site of the heat of this debate: an abandoned building located just a few blocks from Ground Zero.

For weeks, a chorus of voices have tried to shout each other down on this issue. Protesters for and against have taken to the streets. Arguments fill the talk shows. You have been hearing about it ad nauseam all over the radio and television. It's not just right vs. left. It's not that kind of division. Some on the right do support the mosque. Some on the left do not.

I want you to listen to what Democrat Howard Dean recently said on MSNBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: I think some of my own folks on my end of the spectrum of the party are demonizing some fairly decent people who are opposed to this. And again in no way am I defending the right wing of the Republican Party.

But there are -- 65 percent of the people in this country are not right wing bigots. Some of them really have deep emotional feelings about this. And I think we at least ought to respectfully hear them and sit down with Muslim Americans and with some of the people that object to this and have a thoughtful, reasonable dialogue and see what comes out of it. And in order for it to be a fair, thoughtful, reasonable dialogue, you have to be willing to move.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right, sounds easy enough. Easier said than done. While Dean calls for more understanding of each side's views, construction workers are now weighing in saying they won't build the Islamic community center on that proposed site.

Our Susan Candiotti has been following this story. And she joins us now by phone. As a matter of fact, she's following it today.

You heard what Howard Dean had to say, Susan. It's not that easy. It's not just like they say just like talking about it. This is a very nuanced issue.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is. It's a very tough one.

And we Have spent some time down at the site of Ground Zero and near the proposed center for the Islamic -- proposed site, rather, for the Islamic center and for the mosque.

And I also spent a lot of time on the phone calling various unions, including the sheet metals union, the electric workers union, a labor council. And, interestingly, no one would come to the phone to talk about it, said that they say didn't want to comment on it, not just yet.

On the other hand, we came down to the site. And most of the union workers that we spoke with -- and I would say 99 percent of them did not want to appear on camera -- said that their unions are against taking any job that has anything to do with building this proposed Islamic center and mosque.

We found one worker who said that times are rough. People could use work, and he didn't have any problem with it at all. But what's interesting, as you pointed out, the building that they're talking about really isn't abandoned. And we have reported this time and again. It is being used for career services. And in fact it is being utilized as a mosque even now.

In fact, we were outside the proposed site today and saw a number of people coming out from Friday prayers as part of Ramadan, without any issues at all again in the neighborhood. And, interestingly, I thought -- I asked some of the workers about that and most of them were not aware of that.

Be that as it may, it's an issue that obviously is not going away. One worker said, now that this -- because of what you cited about what's going on there now, I wouldn't have had a problem, but now it's become a political problem.

LEMON: Hey, Susan, here, let's talk about this. And I don't think this should be underplayed. And again it's not an abandoned building. It's not an abandoned building. But it shouldn't be underplayed. These are tough times for the economy and tough times for workers and especially construction. Even New York City is being hit.

And to have construction workers saying, I don't want to take a job, that just tells you the intensity of this issue.

CANDIOTTI: It does. And for the most part, the union workers that we spoke with said they didn't want to be any part of any construction of an Islamic center because they said, for them, it's just too close to them. Many of them worked at Ground Zero or worked to help move out debris, knew people who died there.

And so they simply don't want to be a part of it. It's not to say that they all feel that way, but a number of them clearly do.

LEMON: And it's interesting how this has resonated around the country. It's an issue that's obviously the heart of it is in New York City. But it really has resonated around the country. And I cannot go anywhere without people talking about this or giving their particular opinion on this issue or talking about what the president has said on this issue. And I would imagine, in New York City, that -- you feel that exponentially.

CANDIOTTI: Certainly most polls seem to indicate that most Americans and most New Yorkers are opposed to the notion of the Islamic center being built at this particular site, keeping in mind that it's a good two blocks away from Ground Zero, on the other hand, that there are a number of New Yorkers who feel otherwise who live right in the neighborhood and yet feel very, very differently.

So it's interesting to see that contrast among people who live very close to the site who are not Muslims and yet have no issue with it.

LEMON: Susan Candiotti joining us from New York City.

Susan, thank you very much. We wanted to get to you because you are on the ground reporting there.

And I want to say we're going to continue on with this because Andy Sullivan is a New York construction worker and blogger. He's going to join us here on CNN in just a bit to talk about why construction workers are saying they don't want anything to do with this proposed mosque near Ground Zero and also Islamic center as well.

It's a subject that's really blowing up all over Twitter, all over social media. And it involves too, this mosque issue, the president's vacation to Martha's Vineyard, but is this a good time for him to be gone when all of this is going on, the economy, unemployment, the mosque issue, the upcoming election?

Is this administration tone-deaf to the problems that many Americans are facing? I'm asking that tough question straight ahead.

And this: emotional reunions as more U.S. troops start heading home from Iraq. We will be right them when they see their families for the very first time in months. That is next right here on the LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: We have been talking a lot about this proposed mosque and Islamic center near Ground Zero in Manhattan. It is really, really causing quite an uproar, not just in New York, but really around the country.

Andy Sullivan, who is a construction worker and blogger, joins us now.

Andy, I want to play this for you. Thanks for joining us. I want to play this for you from Howard Dean, MSNBC, just a couple days ago. It may have been last night. I want you to listen to this. Then I want to get your response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: I think some of my own folks on my end of the spectrum of the party are demonizing some fairly decent people who are opposed to this. And again in no way am I defending the right wing of the Republican Party.

But there are -- 65 percent of the people in this country are not right wing bigots. Some of them really have deep emotional feelings about this. And I think we at least ought to respectfully hear them and sit down with Muslim Americans and with some of the people that object to this and have a thoughtful, reasonable dialogue and see what comes out of it. And in order for it to be a fair, thoughtful, reasonable dialogue, you have to be willing to move.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right, that is Howard Dean from MSNBC.

Andy, I'm not sure if you heard the full context or everything that Howard Dean had to say. What do you make of his comments?

ANDY SULLIVAN, NEW YORK CITY CONSTRUCTION WORKER: Well, I'm familiar about what he said. And it's kind of profound, actually, Howard Dean, very much the Democrat liberal, being on the side of moving the mosque. I find that pretty moving.

LEMON: What's your response to those who have said that -- who think this is a left-vs.-right issue or a conservative-vs.-Democrat issue?

SULLIVAN: Oh, I completely disagree. Just look at -- you have got the top Democratic guy, Harry Reid, saying it's not a good idea to put it there.

And then you have Obama saying, they should have the right to put it there. So, I think this goes beyond left-right, Democratic- Republican lines.

LEMON: Andy, you and others who oppose the location of this mosque have been painted by some as bigots, anti-Muslim, anti- religious, against religious freedom. What do you make of that? SULLIVAN: My God. You know, I'm in construction. I work with -- I don't have the energy or the time to be racist. Everybody I work with is from another country, OK? And I put my safety in their hands of their hands -- in their hands, as they do mine. I don't have -- I can't be bothered with the nonsense of racism.

LEMON: Do you at least understand the views of the people who want the Islamic center to be built on that location?

SULLIVAN: Actually, I don't.

LEMON: Explain.

SULLIVAN: Well, first of all, first of all, they want to do a bridge-building or an outreach and looking to be understood. And their first act is this act of hurt and pain. How do you begin a relationship by doing such an aggressive, disrespectful act?

LEMON: What do you say to -- they say they have the right to do it and they are American citizens and to think any -- to think otherwise is really not the American way?

SULLIVAN: Oh, no, listen, by law, do they have the right to do it? Absolutely. They have the right to do it.

But is it right? Would it be right for me to walk around with a white pointy hood saying all kinds of terrible, awful things about Afro-Americans? It would be my right to do that. But would I do that? God, no, because it's not right.

LEMON: The interesting thing is that if you even bring up some sort of compromise, on both sides, people get heated about that, about a compromise, especially for people who think that maybe it's not a good decision to build in that area, that people are painted -- I want to go back to this -- people are painted as bigoted and anti-Muslim.

Why this? Why so much heat, especially even coming from the side that -- people who say they want to build bridges?

SULLIVAN: I really don't understand it.

And as far as the bigot and the racist thing and Islamophobia, things that I'm hearing, if that was the case, September 12, we would have stormed the mosque and had it -- we would have raided the place. But did we? Did anybody?

The place has been a mosque for over 20 years. No one has -- did a protest or went in there, and no one has bothered them since. The only thing we protest is this gigantic, looming building in the shadow of Ground Zero.

LEMON: Andy, this is a tough economy. Can you really and other construction workers and other Americans really afford to be turning down work right now?

SULLIVAN: We cannot be turning down work. We are suffering here. New York City construction is dying.

And we don't have an oily pelican to be the icon to let the whole country know just how bad shape we're in. And, all that considered, when I went down to Ground Zero yesterday and I started to do some polling, everything was, no mosque, not here, I would rather pick up bottles and cans and turn them in.

LEMON: Andy Sullivan is a New York City construction worker and blogger. And his blog is bluecollarworker.com.

Andy, we appreciate your time here on CNN. Thank you.

SULLIVAN: Thank you.

LEMON: All right.

We want to move and talk more. We're going to continue to talk about this conversation and the political ramifications for the president and the administration as well coming up here on the LIST.

In the meantime, we're going to move to our military list. And it's something that we just can't see enough, a big welcome home to troops returning from Iraq. We're seeing more and more of these really very happy reunions. You're looking at 200 members of Fort Benning's 3rd Brigade arriving in Lawson Army Airfield in Georgia. This was just last night.

Family members say they waited almost a year for this.

Here's our Brooke Baldwin with one of those reunited families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY SUNDAY, SOLDIER'S WIFE: I just feel really blessed. You know, God has blessed us with an amazing marriage and family, and I'm just really thankful to have him home.

BALDWIN: How was the trip home?

SGT. JASON SUNDAY, U.S. MILITARY: It was long, but well worth it. Just glad to be back in Georgia, and next to my wife and kids. And hopefully I don't have to go back over there again anytime soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And what a great sight to see. We hope to be seeing more and more of those. And we're going to cover them over the next few weeks as more combat troops leave Iraq.

Let's go to Twitter board right now. We're talking about the situation, this proposed mosque and Islamic center near Ground Zero. This is Mike Pence, representative from Indiana, responding. He has put this -- he has tweeted this. He says: "Those in military deserve our honor, gratitude and we celebrate those" -- excuse me. This is about coming home. Sorry about that. "Those in military deserve our honor, gratitude. We celebrate those We coming home. Continue to pray for those who remain." Again, that's representative Mike Pence in Indiana talking about what we're showing there on the screen, those really, really emotional and happy family reunions.

Plus, this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, I think all of us here were convinced that this was going to go down into a bloody shoot-out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It came close. A modern-day Bonnie and Clyde are captured at a campground in Arizona by good old-fashioned police work. You will hear how it all played out. That's straight ahead on the LIST.

And the president has been getting hammered by the economy and the job numbers. But he may have good news with taxes that we're going to tell you about. Our Jessica Yellin here -- is here with me and she will explain next on the LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Back to the LIST, everyone. Rick is off. I'm Don Lemon.

The president has endured plenty of bad news when it comes to the economy. But in the midst of this bad news, a couple of new polls have come out with some surprising results.

Jessica Yellin has been studying these polls and she joins me now right now here in Atlanta.

Jessica, we're talking about tax cuts. Traditionally they have been issues that Republicans, right, have been able to win with. It's normally a pretty easy sell for a politician to tell a taxpayer that they want them to keep more of their money.

But in this new poll -- what is this new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll?

(CROSSTALK)

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: There's finally a glimmer of hope on something for President Obama in this one.

Usually when you talk about taxes, as you say, voters immediately are ready to assume Democrats want to raise their taxes, Republicans are going to lower them, and it becomes a sticky issue for Democrats.

Remember, President Bush's tax cuts are set to expire. There's this big debate about who they will be extended for. President Obama says, we're going to extend these tax cuts for everybody except families who make $250,000 or more. Big fight. The voters are with him, it looks like, 51 percent, at least.

Let's look at the latest CNN poll that says 51 percent of Americans agree that tax cuts should continue for everyone except those who make more than $250,000 -- or the way we phrased it, continue for everyone under $250,000.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Under $250,000. OK. Great. We do polls. And the numbers, what do they really mean? What do they really mean?

YELLIN: Right.

LEMON: Here's a question. Is this strategy likely to work? Is this a winning strategy?

YELLIN: OK, unclear.

(LAUGHTER)

YELLIN: It's always better to say yes or no, but because taxes is always a third rail in politics, and it's dangerous to get into this, but the bottom line is, it shows that, in this election season, Democrats overwhelmingly agree.

I think we have this poll. Democrats, 67 percent of them say that they agree with the policy that tax cuts should continue only for families that make $250,000 or less. Independents are split. And that's the key demo that's going to decide, OK, which way this election goes.

So, slightly less than a majority of independents are with the president. Could still be an issue, but still better news than expected for him.

LEMON: OK. So, we have talked about this. The Republicans are going to run -- and we're talking about the election is November here -- they are going to run on a strategy of disdain for the economy. Is this strategy likely to work? Because there's some nuance to it. There are people who are against it, but, within those polls, you have to sort of parse what's inside of the polls.

YELLIN: That's right.

Well, look, it's jobs, jobs, jobs. You keep hearing that. And that's all that matters right now. But the other big issue the Republicans are hitting on is health care reform, because we have seen the polling. And we have a new one out today that shows on health care reform, which was the president's big push, 56 percent of Americans oppose the bill. OK, that's good news for Republicans, bad news for Democrats.

Let's look at another number, though. You talked about parsing -- 13 percent oh, my gosh, that's so tiny you can barely read it. (LAUGHTER)

YELLIN: That's funny to me. OK.

LEMON: Oppose, not liberal enough.

YELLIN: Well, let me tell you what it says. It says that 13 percent of the folks think that it didn't go far enough. They're super-liberal Democrats who wanted it to do more.

So, that means less than 50 percent of Americans are angry about health care from a conservative perspective. So, it's not clear that the Republicans are going to necessarily win on this issue.

LEMON: That's what I was going to say. So, what does that mean for the Republicans' strategy, then, if they are banking on at least this being an issue -- a decisive issue?

YELLIN: Well, they believe it's going to be a decisive issue, despite our polling, because they are advertising -- they're spending -- I actually have the numbers -- $24 million has been spent on ads against the health care bill.

There are right now 24 individual ads around this country tying Democrats to this unpopular health care bill. So, Republicans clearly really think that's a winning issue for them.

LEMON: OK. Don't go far. We have you here in Atlanta. We're going to take advantage of your presence here and talk more about the issue. We're going to about the president going on vacation. Some say that the administration is tone-deaf because he's going to Martha's Vineyard and it's really kind of hoity-toity.

And people -- as you can see, we're getting some of tweets here weighing in on the Ground Zero issue, which is really haunting the administration as well.

YELLIN: Yes.

LEMON: Stand by, Jessica Yellin. We appreciate that.

In the meantime, sign of the times, things are so bad, that Americans are doing something they have rarely done before just to make ends meet. And it involves retirement money. We're going to drill down on why, plus how bad the problem is and the consequences. That's ahead on the LIST here.

And fugitives dubbed Bonnie and Clyde are caught at a campground in Arizona. It's quite a picture, isn't it?

YELLIN: They always have their shirt off. They always have their shirt off.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Always have their shirt off, and there's always a tattoo somewhere. OK. We're going to talk about his arrest.

The arrest plays out really like a crime novel. You're going to hear it next on the LIST. Always shirt off.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone.

Look behind me. Remember this pair? They're the Arizona prison escapee and his cousin/fiancee who fancied themselves to be Bonnie and Clyde. Well, they vowed they wouldn't go down easy if lawmen ever caught up with them. And I want you to take a look at this.

Lawmen did catch up with John McCluskey and Casslyn Welch. It was late last night. It was a park campground in eastern Arizona. And a SWAT team took them down pretty easy. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID GONZALES, U.S. MARSHALS SERVICE: Casslyn Welch did have a gun on her. She had it hidden on the small of her back. She did pull that gun out, but dropped it immediately.

McCluskey was laying outside a tent and they pounced on him immediately, obviously. And he later said that -- and it was confirmed -- that he had a gun inside the tent and that, if he had the time, he would have shot the officers, the deputies and he should have shot the forest ranger when he had an opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right, here's the question. What did them in? Well, we're told their campfire, their car and plain old miscalculation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GONZALES: -- had gone cold. We had no idea where they were. But so what we did to flush them out was that we had tightened the noose in the sense that we had locked down and were putting a lot of pressure on their friends, their family, their acquaintances. They had no place to go --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

GONZALES: -- but to make mistake and pop up like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yes, a big mistake was setting up camp in the wrong part of the park and leaving their campfire unattended. How many times do we hear, don't leave your campfire unattended? It can start a forest fire.

Well, a park staffer spotted the fire. He went to check it out and spotted a car backed into the trees -- to the trees and in an area that was meant for horses. He ran the license plate and, bingo, turns out it was stolen in New Mexico around the same time and place McCluskey's suspected of killing a vacationing couple.

And we just got this in, the couple's mug shots right there, fresh from the Apache County, Arizona, Sheriff's Office, where McCluskey and Welch are being held under heavy guard. They are scheduled to appear in court in a couple of hours. And we will keep you posted. So much, though, for Bonnie and Clyde, the slammer now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would I work in the back? Because (INAUDIBLE) And then I said, you just hired me because of my hijabi look, because I look as a Muslim.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: A Muslim employee is suing Disney for the right to wear her head scarf. Is it discrimination or is it a misunderstanding? We're drilling down on that straight ahead.

And an emergency landing that will have you on the edge of your seat really. You will see it play out next right here on the LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. Some guys eat, drink and sleep football. Some of them are right here in the studio with me. I don't want to call anybody out.

But you know what? The Kansas City Chiefs, well, they take practice really to the next level. Time now for "Fotos."

All right, this is ridiculous. Hey, I'm in here. Check out this, what can we call it, unorthodox drill at Kansas City Chiefs training camp. Essentially, it's a Chiefs receiver. He is sitting in a port-a-potty and is thrown passes as a teammate opens and closes the door. Looks like these guys are not taking any breaks, not even a bathroom break, in their training for next season.

All right, that's a first. Really, it is.

This is a first, too. A plane lands safely on its belly at an airport in New Hampshire. The pilot made the decision to land that way after his landing gear wouldn't fully extend. Well, he shut the engines down and came in -- came right on in. The pilot was only one on board -- was the only one on board -- excuse me -- and he was not injured.

Suspended by wires, an acrobatic troop of dancers performed on the side of a 50-story Thanksgiving Tower in Dallas. The group, who calls themselves Project Bandaloop, has also danced on the Eiffel Tower, on the side of a bridge, and on a cliff in Yosemite national park. They have a lot of nerve and a lot of skill. They've got skills.

That's "Fotos." You can see them for yourself at CNN.com/ricksanchez. Remember the security guard who tackled a shoplifter and put him in a chokehold? There's news on what happened to that guard. That's next on our follow-up list.

And who says you can't be fit at 50? Take a look at a group of, quote, "older guys" on the soccer field.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: They call themselves old guys, but these 50 and 60-somethings are anything but when they're on the field.

TERRY FLANAGAN: People, they look at me and they say, you're still playing soccer? Yes, still playing soccer.

GUPTA: Today they face a team of 40-year-olds. The game plan for the older guys in a word -- preparation.

BOBBY INGWERSEN: We're learning a little bit more that we have to take care of our bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I work out and I think I've got a couple of things in mind -- endurance, strength, and flexibility.

GUPTA: Because now they're biggest competitor, the threat of injury.

FORREST PECHA, CERTIFIED ATHLETIC TRAINER: When we get older, we lose the ability for our muscles to stretch as much. We lose some water in the muscles and the cartilage and the ligaments, and we just get stiffer.

GUPTA: Which can lead to pulled muscles or strains. So on and off the field the players stretch a lot. They work hard to stay fit, remain strong, and they play smarter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm more of a tactical, technical player. And I avoid physical contact.

GUPTA: The older guys won the game five to one. But most importantly, they also remained injury-free, ready to compete another day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to play until they put me in a wheelchair and I can't get out on the field anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there are still guys my age that want to play at 80, I'll be playing.

GUPTA: I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Yes, we do have an update list. And on that update list today, the shopping mall takedown in Los Angeles. Remember this scene? A man on the ground accused of shoplifting. He was tackled and held in a chokehold by a mall security guard. The guard sprang into action when Alejandro Ria kept on walking after setting off the alarm while living a Forever 21 store.

It turns out Ria is deaf, so he couldn't hear the alarm or the security guard's orders. The store and Ria's lawyers say the security guard went too far. Now the security guard has been relieved of his duties.

Forever 21 says, this is a statement from them, "We recognize that the security guard used excessive force, which is against our store policy, and have suspended him indefinitely." Ria is still in jail. He is charged with second-degree robbery and hasn't been able to post a $56,000 bond. He is scheduled to go to court sometime next week.

I want to switch gears right now and talk about your 401(k). When it comes to your 401(k) don't they always say to leave it alone until you retire? Well, now there are some disturbing new numbers that show people aren't following that advice and reasons are really discouraging. That's ahead on "The List."

And a CNN iReporter goes to North Korea on a mission, and he's only 13 years old -- 13 year old! The reason why he did this puts him on our most intriguing list today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Here's another issue that that mosque and Islamic center is bringing up here, because with this controversy over the Islamic religious center and mosque planned near the site of the September 11th attacks, we have been hearing and reading a lot about religious freedom recently.

But how far does religious freedom go? I want you to listen and tell me what you think about this conversation. You work at Disneyland where everyone who deals with the public is called a cast member and is expected to wear a particular costume. Should you be able to break character and wear a religious head scarf on the job?

Imane Boudial thinks she should be and she is testing Disney's dress code. She joins us from Anaheim, California. How are you doing today?

IMANE BOUDIAL, SENT HOME FROM WORK FOR WEARING HER HIJAB: Good, how about yourself?

LEMON: I'm doing great. Thank you for joining us. You have been here in America five years, is that correct?

BOUDIAL: Yes, correct.

LEMON: And you've worked for Disney for two years? BOUDIAL: Yes, two years and a half, almost.

LEMON: OK, so tell us how this happened, because initially you didn't wear the headscarf, but then you wanted to wear it. Why did you all of a sudden want to wear the scarf?

BOUDIAL: Well, as I've been saying, like, it's a part of my belief and religion. Wearing the scarf, it's really important and it's a requirement. So I know that it was a requirement, and not just me. Everybody knows as a Muslim woman or just being the fact that they're Muslim.

And then I wasn't ready to wear it. And then I decided to wear my hijab. And that's been like a year right now. I just felt that I'm ready for it, like you go through different stages. Like a year ahead, I was ready to wear it.

LEMON: So personally you felt that you had grown enough and that you were strong enough to be able to wear the scarf. Is that correct?

BOUDIAL: Exactly.

LEMON: OK. Here's what people are going to say because you recently got your citizenship, right, very recently?

BOUDIAL: Yes.

LEMON: And after you got your citizenship, you decided to wear the scarf. And people will think you got your citizenship and then you decided to break the rules after you got your citizenship and after you had been working there for two years and not wearing the scarf.

BOUDIAL: OK, well, that's the things. That's totally wrong, because the fact is not that I became an American citizen, but that was the reason how I find that I have the right to wear the scarf because I was reading the constitution.

Even before I was here, I was a green card holder like as a resident. So basically, I have the same rights as an American or just as a resident in the United States. So I had the right to wear the scarf. But because maybe I should have read the constitution the first day that I stepped into JFK airport, maybe that was a mistake that I didn't do it.

But I'm glad that after -- go ahead.

LEMON: You said you're glad that after you now had the courage to do it -- I think I know where you were going to go. The thing is, I understand that, but with your company, when you originally took the job in the contract -- and I'm going to read Disney's statement in a minute. It says you had to abide by certain rules and you had to dress a certain way. On most jobs, there is a dress code, even one here at CNN. And yours is to be a cast member and to dress the part.

Do you feel that in any way you misrepresented yourself by all of a sudden two years into the job and deciding to change what you wear?

BOUDIAL: No, I did not, totally did not. Because at the same time, like, if you look at the Disney policy, they're saying that, OK, Disney -- after you read it, it says they can make an exception for a religious belief or if you are sick, or something that it's harming you.

If they can make special accommodation, like if you're sick, they can come up with something. So basically these are my beliefs, just who I am. And you can make a request, I did.

LEMON: I'm sorry to cut you off. "Disney is an entertainment company." This is where the statement starts, "Our theme parks and resorts are the stage and our costume cast members are part of the show." And it says "All cast members in costume roles regardless of their diverse beliefs are expected to comply with our dress codes." When cast members, regardless of their religion, request exceptions to our policies for religious reasons, we work hard to make reasonable accommodations."

And they are accommodating you. So what's the issue here, what issue do you have here?

BOUDIAL: How did they accommodate me? What was the reasonable accommodation that they came up with?

LEMON: As far as they're concerned, it's a reasonable accommodation that you are on paid leave, right? They're paying you even though you're not working, and they're trying to figure out how to incorporate you into the company now that you are not abiding, at least as they see, by the dress code.

BOUDIAL: Well, actually, I'm not getting paid. When they send me home, I'm not getting paid for the days I'm not showing up right now.

LEMON: And you're not working in other parts of the company? You're not working in another role?

BOUDIAL: No, I'm not, definitely not. And then at the same time, I don't think it's hard for Disney just to give me an accommodation to wear just the scarf. I've been waiting two months right now and for a few weeks. I don't see -- how is it hard for Disney just to give me a piece of scarf and just let me work at the front like whatever I used to do before? How is it hard to Disney?

LEMON: Are you negotiating with them to have a different role?

BOUDIAL: Well, they said, you can work back scene, as long as you don't deal with the customers.

LEMON: Let us know how it goes, OK?

BOUDIAL: Definitely.

LEMON: We appreciate it. We're going to move on now. I want you to take a look at this dangling train in China. Look at that. Massive floodwaters washed out a bridge, sending two passenger cars into the river. That is certainly ahead right on "The List."

And our most intriguing person went to a mission to North Korea and he's not even old enough to drive. Hear his story, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Time to check the list of most intriguing people in the news today.

At 13 years old, he's pretty young to be considered an international diplomat. But this American teen hopes to establish a children's peace forest in an unlikely spot, the Korean demilitarized zone.

So he went to North Korea in hopes of brokering a deal. And he talked to some North Korean officials, who seemed intrigued by his idea. But they didn't commit to anything. You've seen his face on our air often because this Mississippi native is also a CNN iReporter, one of today's most intriguing persons of the day. There he is, Jonathan Lee. He's a cute kid. He's 13 years old. Imagine that, having the wits to do that.

Even though he didn't succeed, he plans to keep trying. Lee started his humanitarian work three years ago to teach kids to protect the environment. He is the founder of "I See Hope." How did he feel about going to one of the most isolated nations in the world? Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN LEE, CNN IREPORTER: Actually, I was really kind of scared at first. But once I got there, I was relieved because I felt, in my experience, very safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Jonathan Lee, a pint-sized peace advocate and one of today's most intrigue people.

Can you believe it's been five years already -- I'm going to tell you why. CNN returns to New Orleans this weekend for the fifth anniversary of hurricane Katrina. One of the slowest areas to recover is a neighborhood of Pontchartrain Park, an enclave of 1,000 middle- class homes where blacks during segregation could own a piece of the American dream.

Actor Wendell Pierce, is among those trying to revive the old neighbor. This Saturday and Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern, CNN's Soledad O'Brien takes a closer look at pierce and other rebuilding efforts in a one-hour documentary called "New Orleans Rising." I spoke with her about it moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Soledad, so many stories like Wendell Pierce, and to look back on it after five years, I mean, the emotions are still so raw and probably will continue to be for years to come.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think there's no question that people who lived through Katrina are living with posttraumatic stress. I've seen it a lot. We show clips of just video from five years ago, the dramatic flooding. It's physically traumatic for people to watch that happen.

That was interesting to me, and, of course, not surprising. But to see people really struggling to this day. And part of it is, for my friends who live in New Orleans and for people whose stories we've told, it's a fight, every day is a fight to take another step forward. And sometimes it's two steps forward, one-and-a-half steps back. So it's been very slow progress and I think that's very frustrating.

LEMON: I thought it was interesting how you talked about the canal. We used to call it the ditch that runs through. And it served as the border, right? Who was Pontchartrain Park and Genteelly Village -- I forget the name.

O'BRIEN: Genteelly Woods, right.

LEMON: Is that is it a border or was that taken care of before Katrina?

O'BRIEN: It was taken care of by time. Genteelly Woods is an overwhelmingly black neighborhood, actually. So time took care of what was a segregation line through the two neighborhoods.

The ditch is still there. Wendell would walk us around and say they used to say this was a drainage ditch, but nothing ever drained into it, and that people there really thought that it was just this sort of, you know, a big gap and we don't want people to cross on either side.

In their plans to renovate the neighborhood, one thing they're going to do is cover that up, put plants, and sort of bring the two neighborhoods together, you know, physically bridge them by raising the ditch, covering, filling it in, and then planting it so it's beautiful on both sides.

LEMON: What about the return? It's called New Orleans Rising, but what about the return especially to this particular neighborhood? Are people coming back? What's the population return there?

O'BRIEN: They are coming back. They've got just over 50 percent of their people back. Two years after the storm at 30 percent. It's been a struggle for Pontchartrain Park. We always thought that was a surprise and it's one reason we wanted to look at this neighborhood, because they're a middle class black neighborhood, 93 percent home ownership. On paper they should be among the first back.

And what you realize is that it is a neighborhood, in fact one of the last neighborhoods to be coming back, very, very slow. You realize it's full of elderly people and there was no real force helping them come back. There were some outside developers who wanted to do this and that, and until the people in the neighborhood decided that they were going to, you know, control their own destiny, there was no real mobilization and no real push toward getting back.

So I think that they feel like they're on a path now, you know, some people moving in begets more people moving in.

And because they had an elderly population, some of those people did not survive over the last five years. And also they just can't physically do it. And so they need to open Pontchartrain Park up to young families and maybe even desegregate Pontchartrain Park in the other way, say everyone is welcome here, we want young families to come in and take up the place that some of the older families who are not coming back once had.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: "New Orleans Rising" airs this Saturday and Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on CNN.

And speaking of New Orleans down on the Gulf coast, remember how we kept asking where is all the oil in the Gulf? Folks recently aren't seeing much of it. Does that mean it's there? Is it gone?

Well, then the government said 75 percent of the crude is gone, but now another report where scientists are saying something different. That is straight ahead. We'll break it down for you.

And is the economy really getting better? Is it? There's another disturbing sign that it is not, one that involves your 401(k). Stay right there. You need to hear this one.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This truly is a sign of the times. I want you to listen to this stunning and sobering news about the economy, OK? More people are raiding their 401(k)s. More people are raiding their 401(k)s. Yes, they are taking cash out of their nest eggs, which was really meant for retirement.

People say you've always heard from the financial adviser, leave your 401(k). Don't touch it. Fidelity is reporting that 62,000 people dipped into their accounts in the second quarter. That's up 37 percent from the previous quarter. That's up, and it's expected to grow.

But it gets worse. Many of those same people are double dippers, which means they also took out money from their 401(k)s last year. It is a disturbing sign considering the government is telling us the economy is starting to pick up. They took it out this year and they also took it out last year, double dippers.

Let's break this down now with Poppy Harlow from CNNmoney.com. This is our "CNN MONEY LIST." First off, Poppy, good to see you. You'd assume many of these people are older, maybe close to retirement, but that certainly isn't the case, is it?

POPPY HARLOW, "CNN MONEY LIST": Not true at all. This is as you said a disturbing report. Look, the biggest bite we've seen in ten years. Why is that? The reality is no matter what the government says and what businesses are doing or corporate earnings, the economy is not getting better.

What I thought was most interesting from this report, Don, the people that are dipping into that account are between the age of 35 and 55, so some of them are 30 years away from retirement.

The reason that you care about that is because if you dip into your 401(k), you take money out for really any reason, before you're 59-and-a-half, you are going to face incredibly steep government tax penalties for that.

And people here don are saying we don't care. We don't have any other option. We'll take that money. I think that age group is the most disturbing part of this whole report.

LEMON: If it comes with such a high cost taking that money out, then what is causing people to do this? Are people just dire, is the situation that desperate out there?

HARLOW: I think they are. I want to show you some other reasons why. This was interesting. The report outlined what people are spending that money on. Prevent foreclosure or eviction. Look, you have to have a home. You'll do pretty much anything to stay in the home.

To pay for college -- a lot of people if they don't have work, see more and more college is necessary to find those good jobs may be going back for another degree.

But look at this -- to purchase a home. Houses are so cheap right now, Don, people are willing to dip into that 401(k), pay all those additional taxes, and buy a home either short sale or out of foreclosure.

So some of this is really need-based. Some of this is they see huge opportunity with housing prices and they want to get in to get money to spend on those.

LEMON: OK, your home used to be your biggest investment and one we could count on, but we know now with the downturn in housing that's really not the case as well. So they're taking a chance there.

It just seems like one bad sign after another, everything from unemployment numbers to the DOW. What is the Obama administration -- do they know what to do and what not to do in this situation?

HARLOW: You know, I think it's really interesting. You talk to individuals about this and they tell you just on the street we want jobs more than anything.

But what's interesting is just this week alone, Don, I talked to a lot of major business leaders. Everyone, you know, from the head of Sysco a big technology company to the head of Citigroup. What they've all said to me, and these are Republicans and Democrats, is the one thing that we don't have from the Obama administration is a jobs plan.

We had stimulus and that created jobs or saved jobs, and some of them were temporary jobs like census jobs, like construction jobs. What they're not seeing and what they want is a clear jobs plan from the administration the way they say we need to get that to put people back to work so they don't have to pull money out of that 401(k).

The way that they say to do that is to put business leaders in president Obama's inner circle, get them talking, having that constant dialogue.

How do you put the private sector back to work, Don? As you know, government jobs, census jobs, temporary jobs are very different than companies, privately funded companies creating those jobs giving people that solid, steady work.

Of course the administration sees it. The president talks about the economy every single day on the road in a different small town or big city. The question is, is there a job plan? We hear it's coming. I think we're yet to see it, though.

LEMON: I think I found this most disturbing when I was told about the report and then read the report, because, you know, when you get older, you're, you know, sometimes you can't work. You're not mobile.

HARLOW: Right.

LEMON: You can't get out there and get a job. When you're younger you're supposed to save all of that up. And so people are starting to have not any nest eggs. And I wonder is that even part of the equation when we're talking about the economy and joblessness and all of that? Is that even taken into consideration?

HARLOW: It's a huge part of the equation. I think the only bright spot in this report is 98 percent of people are still not dipping into their 401(k). People are saving more than they were a year ago.

The reality is let's say you pull out $50,000, $100,000 of your savings to prevent foreclosure or this or that, Don. If you do that, that part of your savings that you've been holding on to since you started working at 22 or 23 years old won't be there anymore. It's not going to grow anymore. Your employer is not going to match it anymore.

And the retirement age, I was just talking to someone this morning saying the retirement age is steadily going up and up and up, and we've seen more and more people saying I can't retire. Forget it. I'm 67. I can't do it. I can't retire.

I think the bottom line in this report is, if you don't have enough money to stay in your home you're going to pull the money out no matter what the penalties are. It is a sign of the times. The Obama administration clearly aware of it and working on it, but this just shows us how dire the situation is.

It doesn't matter what Wall Street does or what company earnings are. If Main Street is not working this economy isn't going to recover, Don.

LEMON: It is certainly interesting. I wonder if there is going to be a new equation now for what is middle class, what does it mean to be able to retire with enough money to live on for the rest of your life? I think that's all going to change now unless something really happens with the economy soon to pump it back up so people can really start saving again and not have to dip into their 401(k)s.

HARLOW: It's going to take a while for them to make up what they lost.

LEMON: Poppy Harlow, thank you so much.

HARLOW: You got it. Have a good weekend.

LEMON: You too.