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Rick's List

Chilean Miners Trapped; Factory Farms: A Discussion About How Food is Farmed and Produced for the Public; Florida's Mystery Ghost Yacht; John Travolta and Kelly Preston to Have New Baby; Grand Ole Opry Partially Restored in Nashville; Former Republican Campaign Manager Ken Mehlman Admits to Being Gay

Aired August 26, 2010 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I do want to tell you something. Oh, hi, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. Here we go.

The Ken Mehlman story is probably getting about as much juice on the Internet as anything I have seen in quite some time. I just checked my Twitter board, just as I usually do to start the show. I got something like 1,800 tweets coming through and many of them have a lot to do with Ken Mehlman.

So, during this newscast, I'm going to be talking to a member of the Log Cabin Republicans about the Ken Mehlman story. So, stay tuned to that.

But topping the LIST right now, I have a question for you. If you were stuck in a dark, dank, underworld with your co-workers, would you want to know straight up that you would be there for a very, very long time? Or would you rather that they maybe broke it to you gently?

The president of Chile is opting for the latter in the case of those 33 miners that are stuck in a 538-square-foot mine shaft. This is the 20th day of their ordeal. The president told them they won't be rescued in time for Chile's independence day. Well, that's September 11. That's far away from Christmas, right?

But he did promise they would be home for Christmas. That's a pretty big window. The thinking behind it, the fear that some of the men won't be able to hand the thought of four months underground.

While information isn't flowing freely, the most basic needs for survival are getting to these men. So are some small items of comfort, like letters and religious figurines, even a picture of Elvis Presley. Oh, and, by the way, some of the men may be too large to actually pull out of that hole that they're making.

Watch this. This is from my colleague Karl Penhaul, who is at the scene.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rescue workers pack a thin metal tube with survival rations. Water, liquid protein and medicine to keep the trapped miners alive. It takes some 20 minutes to get the tube down to the shelter where the men are stranded, 700 meters or 2,300 feet underground. Some may be cracking under the ordeal.

JAIME MANALICH, CHILEAN HEALTH MINISTER: At least three or four of them are in a real hard time. Regarding they aren't sleeping well. They are very nervous, and in some way depressed.

PENHAUL: Work is expected to start at the weekend to drill a shaft big enough to pull the men back to the surface. But some of the miners will have to diet to stand a chance of squeezing through the hole which will measure just 60 centimeters or two feet wide.

MANALICH: According to the medical records that we have, exactly nine of them were overweight. We suppose that - we think that they have lost already eight kilos.

PENHAUL: On the surface, it's a struggle, too.

(on camera): The biggest challenge for families now may simply be staying patient. Many of them are putting their faith in religion and the old mining superstitions.

They have built shrines to their loved ones and they have painted their hopes and prayers on the rocks.

Nineteen-year-old Jimmy Sanchez is the youngest of the 33 miners. His girlfriend, Helen, nurses their 2-month-old daughter. She says Jimmy fears the dark, confined spaces and the spirits of dead miners.

"Every day, Jimmy had a premonition. He didn't want to go to work. He was afraid of the mine and of going underground," she says.

But in a letter sent up to his mom Tuesday, Jimmy was putting on a brave face. "I want to eat so many things. I'm hungrier than ever. All these days, I have been dreaming about my mom cooking for me. That will soon happen. After the bad comes the good," he wrote.

Other families read their mail sent via the same metal tube being used to feed the men. These words from miner Pedro Cortez. He writes: "Down here, we have lived through the worst. So, stay calm. Our suffering won't last much longer."

Rescue workers haven't yet had the heart to tell the miners precisely that it could be weeks or months before they emerge from the underworld.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: And Karl Penhaul is joining us now to bring us to date on what's going on with the story today, as he has been for the last several days.

Karl, my question is, is there someone in charge of those 33 men in that cave essentially who will be in charge?

PENHAUL: Well, that's a good question, Rick.

And it's something the psychology team has been focusing on. What they need to do is bring their natural leaders to the fore. There are three guys fulfilling that role right now. One guy was the shift leader. He was the boss of the miners anyway. He's fulfilling one of those leadership roles.

There's another man down there who has some nursing experience, and so he's been chosen as well to now carry out written psychological evaluations of all the miners. He is also, we are told, carrying out basic medical tests on the miners.

Today, he is carrying out blood tests, we're told. Every day, he's also giving them a strip so that the miners carry out on themselves urine tests. He will also be testing their blood pressure.

And there's a third man, Mario Gomez, a 63-year-old, the most veteran miner down there. He's been a miner since he was 12. And he's emerged as the kind of natural spiritual leader. He is the shoulder to cry on when any of them get down. And it he also that has been asking for those religious, those Catholic figurines to be sent down there, so that he can set up a little shrine area in that cabin, Rick.

SANCHEZ: I probably should have given you a heads-up on this question. And I have been really thinking an awful lot about whether I should ask you this. But it's gotten to the point now.

You know that I follow Twitter. I have gotten hundreds and hundreds of tweets and questions and e-mails from people asking me this question. And I was hesitant to ask you, but I'm going to go ahead and ask it now because it seems to be such a natural curiosity for people. It's almost difficult to say, but I will do it.

What are they doing with the necessities, the excrement from these 33 men in that small cave?

PENHAUL: I think exactly those kinds of details is why people across the world have got their eyes on this story. This is not just a Chilean story. It's not just a Latin American story, but it is a real human story.

And on that subject, there is some good news, Rick, because we have been talking about this 500 square-meter cabin, the shelter where the men are, but the good news is that part of the mine shaft in that area has also stayed open.

And, so, in fact, they can roam along a mine -- a part of a mine shaft that's up to 40 yards, we're told, along four or five yards wide, and about three yards high. And so that gives them some space.

Now, I can't tell you precisely in what part of that 40-yard tunnel they're carrying out their necessities, where they're going to the bathroom, but, nevertheless, they are also getting advice from the doctors and the psychologists up on the surface to do exactly that, to divide areas where they're going to be washing, divide areas where they are going to be doing their necessities, and divide area also where they're going to be sleeping and praying.

Now, again, just on the medical front -- and I know you haven't asked me this, but it's just information that is just coming to us now, a briefing from the health minister -- he is saying that on the basis of the their analysis so far, each of those miners, since August 5, when they were trapped down that mine, have lost 22 pounds.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

PENHAUL: He said they're also badly dehydrated. He says that the water they had access to down in that mine, and much of that was water drained from a piece of equipment that used water as a coolant.

He said that the miners are badly dehydrated. So, it's kind of an emergency measure. They're using one of those bore holes to put a permanent pipe of drinking water down. And he said, because of the high temperatures down there, about 90, 95 degrees, and the state of dehydration of these men, they have got to drink about eight or nine pints of water a day, and that just to build themselves back up, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Unbelievable. I mean, the drama, the detail, the way that you have been able to take us through this story, that, you're absolutely right, people all over the world are keyed into, we will continue to follow it.

My thanks to you, Karl Penhaul, for bringing but the details there from the scene.

Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Hospital officials are telling us that many of the nurses resorted to giving themselves IVs just to remain hydrated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: It was a nightmare. Five years ago, I was on the ground during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. You're going to see how these stories unfolded before our eyes. I should tell you, on a personal note, I have never looked back at these videos. I have never seen them again.

I'm going to see them with you for the very first time because, be honest with you, it's just too painful. That's ahead.

Also, did you hear about this? A yacht washed ashore with no one inside. They're calling this thing a ghost yacht. And it's still a mystery. We're trying to find out where it came from, who was on board. That's next right here on the LIST.

Stay with us. This is your national conversation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Today, as a network, we are taking a closer look at the safety of the food that we eat. Think about it. It seems timely, doesn't it? We're trying to track all of it to its source.

And here's why. We want to get you caught up on the latest on this egg recall. This egg recall is not alone in terms of what's happened in this country in the past with problems with certain foods. Now, take a look at this map. See if your state is on it -- 23 states have now received tainted eggs. So it's important that you know if your state is on this map.

More than 13,000 people have already gotten sick. And, today, two more egg brands were added to the recall list. So I want you to check your fridge once more, this time for eggs from Cardenas Market and Trafficanda Egg Ranch, two brand-new ones. Seems like the list grows daily.

And expect shell shock at the grocery. Newspapers in cities around the country are reporting steep increases in wholesale prices of eggs. The Des Moines, Iowa, "Register" reports a 28 percent increase since August 13. To find out more information about the recall, about food safety issues, we want you to go to CNN.com/Eatocracy.

I think that's slash, right? Yes -- /Eatocracy. Somebody had a typo there on the script. I apologize for that.

Also, stick with us. Over the next couple of hours, we're going to talk food safety with plenty of guests. And we're also going to get advice on how to eat well and hopefully avoid some bad food. We will have all of that for you coming up right here.

Now, we all know many politicians like to be on stage. But there's one guy who really takes his performance to a whole new level. Have you heard about this? It's really -- talk about trending. Wait till you see who's running for mayor in Providence, Rhode Island. You have got to stick around for this. I guarantee it.

And people are scratching their heads in Florida after a yacht has washed ashore but there's nobody inside. Where did it come from? It's being called a mystery ghost yacht. That's next right here on the LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right, here we go. This is -- well, we have called it a mystery. I think it would be difficult to say it's anything but, right?

This is a ghost ship. And it's the talk of the town, because it's washed up on a beach in Florida. There it is. It's a 48-foot yacht. It's called Makin' Waves. Well, it's not making waves now, but it certainly is making a lot of conversation. It came ashore yesterday near Madeira Beach. Witnesses say that the engine was running. You staying with me here, right? The engine was running and the lights were on as it came up on the shore.

Hmm. The U.S. Coast Guard started a rescue mission for any potential missing boaters. They didn't find anybody. And now they have suspended the search. People who live along the Redington Beach had their own theories as to what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The engines were still running. The lights were still going. It was not in gear. Police got aboard and turned the engines off. We don't see it very often. Well, actually, I have never seen it. I have lived here since 1959. I have never seen one this size beached on the water before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: This is a half-million-dollar yacht, according to experts. It's been registered in Florida and Delaware. The vessel is now registered with the federal government.

Expect more on this. As we learn it, we will share it with you.

There's also some incredible news that is coming out of Tennessee. A few months ago, deadly floods rocked Nashville. You remember, right? Well, now, with the help of some celebrities, something very symbolic is coming back to life. That's ahead. And we're glad we can bring it to you.

Also, some people say, when you buy groceries or you go to restaurant, you're eating blind. Do we really know what is in our food? How dangerous is it? Given what is going on with this egg scare, we decided that we would ask. And we will. That's next right here on the LIST. Let's talk about our food supply, if we dare.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back.

You ready to go, Robert? You set up? Let's take a look at something just got here from the White House just a little while ago. Look what they're saying.

They're trying to make sure that we got all the information you need on the egg recall. Lots of info on the egg recall from -- and then they give you the Web site that you can go to. And that's what it looks like, foodsafety.gov. Right? Well, we need a lot of info on food safety these days, it seems.

And I want to talk about that. The FDA is saying that they feel that feed is the likely source of the salmonella at two of the Iowa chicken farms that have prompted this huge egg recall that we have been telling you about.

Since this egg recall began, we have seen pictures of huge farms that seem more like factories. This way of creating food has its share of critics. Jonathan Safran Foer is one of them. He took on big corporate farming in his book "Eating Animals," and he joins us from New York on this day.

Jonathan, how are you doing?

JONATHAN SAFRAN FOER, AUTHOR, "EATING ANIMALS": I'm good. How are you?

SANCHEZ: Sorry I kind of messed up your name as I was getting ready to introduce you there.

Are you surprised? I bet you're not surprised by this egg situation that we have been -- that's been in the news now for the better part of a week and seems to grow every day.

FOER: Unfortunately, I'm not surprised.

And the more you learn about this food industry, the less reason there is to be surprised. Eight percent of all chickens sold --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I'm sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

FOER: Eight percent of all chickens sold in supermarkets in America are infected with salmonella, 8 percent.

SANCHEZ: Eight percent.

FOER: About 40 percent, at least 40 percent of the chickens sold in supermarkets in the United States of America are infected with E. coli. In the past year or two, there have been any number of recalls of animal products, whether it's eggs or beef.

We're going to see more and more of it because it's a systemic problem. This isn't a problem about these two farms.

SANCHEZ: By the way, just to be fair and do my due diligence, where did you get those numbers that you just shared with us?

FOER: They have been reported very, very widely. In my book "Eating Animals," I give you the proper citations. I don't remember them off the top of my head.

SANCHEZ: But you're pretty sure you can nail those down? Are those just minimalist findings, or --

FOER: I'm sure in so far as they have never been challenged. My book has been out for a year. And no part of the industrial food industry has questioned even one of my statistics.

SANCHEZ: The reason I'm asking, though, is just because I figure our viewers would want to know. Those are pretty remarkable numbers. And sometimes they say you can find minute traces of something, which the government doesn't find to be big enough of a reading to, you know, create -- to make it a problem.

Is it possible that that's what you're talking about, that it's just a trace?

FOER: Well, ask yourself, how much E. coli do you want in your kitchen? How much salmonella do you want in the food that you feed your children? We have been told to bleach our counters. We have been told to make sure your food is cooked at insanely high temperatures for an insanely long amount of time. Why are they telling us this?

It's a question each person has to answer for himself. It might be that you're comfortable taking a certain risk with the food that you bring into your kitchen.

SANCHEZ: So what do you think is the problem then with the American food supply? Because the average person would say, you know what? I would still take my chances eating in the United States, as opposed to most countries in the world. Why are you knocking my country's food supply?

FOER: I'm not knocking America's food supply. I'm knocking food supplies all over the world.

The factory farm was an American invention, and it's now responsible for 99 percent of the animals that we eat in this country. And it's -- the same numbers are the case in Europe. It's 98 percent in Germany, 95 percent in England. It's now being pushed very aggressively into China and India.

SANCHEZ: Let me help you define that, because I think a lot of people are going to hear you use the term factory farm, and they don't know what you're talking about.

I think what you're doing is differentiating between the old system, where there family farms, and now farms are generally corporatized. Is that what you mean?

FOER: Right. That's exactly right.

We used to have a wonderful farm system until about 50 years ago where farmers knew their animals as individuals, where those animals would eat the foods that they're naturally built to consume -- cows would eat grass -- where animals were raised outside.

Now, as I said, 99 percent of the animals that we eat come from factory farms, which almost always means they're raised in very high concentrations. In the case of these hens that we're talking about with an egg recall, it could be 30,000, 60,000 in a windowless shed, often in cages, where each has this about of room.

And you don't have to be a veterinary scientist to know that this is a problem.

SANCHEZ: So would you then say the average -- you know, my wife is watching you right now. And recently I know my wife has gotten really big on everything organic. And she's not eating meat anymore, and she's making me crazy.

But the average person who's watching you right now, they can't go out there and do anything about the, you know, corporatized farming system. But what they can do is somehow maybe help themselves or their children or their families.

What is the advice that you would give to them?

FOER: Well, the average person out there, the average American consumer is the most important person in this game --

SANCHEZ: How so?

FOER: -- because farmers make -- farmers produce what they are asked to produce. We have wanted 50 cent hamburgers, and we have got them.

As it turns out now, we want something different. The fastest growing sector in the food industry in America are cage-free and free- range eggs. You can't go into a supermarket without finding them now, even though you never would have seen one five years ago. So we have to ask for different things. We have to demand different things.

SANCHEZ: That's interesting. So --

FOER: Your wife is right.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Thanks. That's what I needed, you on her side.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: So, what's interesting is, you would tell people, take the responsibility yourself and start buying organic foods, start making sure you're reading those labels before you do anything else; even if it costs a little bit more, it's worth it?

FOER: Unfortunately, I wish that were the answer, but it's not, because the labels are meaningless.

SANCHEZ: Really?

FOER: Free-range -- when it comes to eggs, for example, free- range is not even legally defined. The USDA has no definition for free-range.

So, I could have 30,000 egg-laying hens under the desk I'm sitting at and sell them -- sell their eggs to you as free-range, and there's no law that protects you. So, what I would say to you is try to go to the farms that you buy animal products from.

I know that's very difficult for most people, but you only need to do it once. And, in fact, it will probably be a lot of fun. And we have to eat less. That's the answer. We have to eat less.

SANCHEZ: You have a lot of information on this. And it sounds like some interesting stuff. Whether people want to agree with you or not, you're certainly worth listening to. We can't talk about all of your ideas, but I know you have just put a book out.

Go ahead. Pitch your book for us, will you? Give us the name of your book. What is it?

FOER: The book is called "Eating Animals."

And what I tried to do with the book is not make a case for vegetarianism and not ask anyone to have --

SANCHEZ: Good.

FOER: -- have new values, but just to act on the values they already have.

SANCHEZ: Because if you try and make a case for vegetarianism, you're talking to the wrong guy, at least with me. And I'm just speaking --

(CROSSTALK)

FOER: I should talk to your wife, right?

SANCHEZ: Exactly.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Hey, Jonathan, you're a good guy. Enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for bringing us your perspective on this.

FOER: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: By the way, we're getting a lot of tweets on this. And here we go.

"Never eat raw eggs." Foodsafety.gov, we're checking what they're saying about we're talking about. And they say, "If a recipe calls for unused eggs, then use pasteurized eggs instead."

And here's another one. "Check your fridge. Two more brands added to the recall list, Cardenas Market and Trafficanda" -- so, two more companies added to this growing recall list, in fact, too big for us to be able to go through all of them. Check my blog. We will try and put them all there.

Meanwhile, this soldier signed on to fight in Afghanistan, and then not expect that he might be asked to fight against Muslims? He says he's a Muslim, and, because he's a Muslim, he can't go to the front lines.

It's a bit of a bizarre story, somewhat contradictory, maybe even paradoxical, wouldn't you say?

And the country that brought us the Running of the Bulls is back with the throwing of the "'maters." That's how we say tomatoes in Atlanta. At least no one got gored, right? That's next. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back, I'm Rick Sanchez. A wise man once said good things come to those who bait. Really? Here's "Fotos."

It was a damn good day to be fishing the Wabash River in Indiana. Check out these Asian carp leaping out of the water. That's right, these two lucky fishermen didn't even need rods. The fish were literally jumping on to the boat.

Environmentalists aren't exactly excited. The Asian carp are considered an invasive species not native to the river, and we can show you this every day.

The streets ran red with tomato juice during the Tomatino Festival in Spain. Tens of thousands of revelers from around the world came to pelt each other with 100 tons of tomatoes trucked in for the annual event.

And by now, everyone has seen this viral video of a British woman allegedly trapping her neighbor's cat in a dumpster. The clip took the media by storm and infuriated animal lovers all over the world. Well, guess what? The cat is back and he wants revenge.

That's right, check out this viral video. The cat goes back and gives the old woman the same treatment that he gave her. There you go, you're going in and I'm locking you down. See you later. So says signed "Sylvester." That's "Fotos."

(LAUGHTER)

That was pretty good. You can see them for yourself on CNN.com/RickSanchez.

Back in 2005, I probably saw some of the -- in all my years that I've been reporting in this business, I saw some of the worst stuff that I've ever seen -- kids crying for help in the middle of the night. I want to take you through some of this stuff.

In fact, I'm going to be real honest with you. There's two things I've experienced in my life. One of them was when I was there on 9/11 as the building came crashing down and I watched it, and I've always had a hang up about that.

And the other thing was being in New Orleans as the city was flooded and I've always had a bit of a hang-up about that. So much so I've never been able to go back and look at the stories that I did. I just thought it would be too painful.

Today we're going to look back because it's five years. That's ahead.

Also, less than two years ago, John Travolta lost his 16-year-old son to a fatal seizure. And now the actor and his wife are making a big announcement about the future of their family. It's trending. Brooke Baldwin is going to join us in just a little bit. In fact, here she is. BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here I am. Do I sound sick? Do I sound OK?

SANCHEZ: You sound great.

BALDWIN: Fabulous. I'm fine.

SANCHEZ: We'll be right back.

(LAUGHTER)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Do you know we had a Brooke replacing you yesterday?

BALDWIN: Can we repeat the joke in the meeting about how you had to fill my role with somebody named Brooke so it wouldn't be too hard to remember my name?

SANCHEZ: Oh, ouch!

BALDWIN: I love you, Sanchez. And I love Brooke Anderson -- gorgeous, smart, amazing.

SANCHEZ: She's great, but she's no Brooke Baldwin. With all due respect, and we do love her.

BALDWIN: Yes, we do.

SANCHEZ: Speaking of love, one of the people I've always loved and watched since I was a younger man -- I hate when people say "I've been watching you since I was a kid." But I've been watching her since I was a younger man.

BALDWIN: Don't give it away.

SANCHEZ: It's cool. She's watching us right now. We're going to tell you who it is in just a minute.

BALDWIN: Stand by. First, let me get to the story in Nashville and all the flooding. And in full disclosure here, I love Nashville, not a huge country music fan, just putting it out there, but I really appreciate it when you see this iconic and historic building brought back to life after being completely destroyed after the floods.

I'm talking about the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville, Tennessee. We all remember in May when the deadly flood waters blanketed the Grand Ole Opry, totally underwater by a couple of feet of water, might I add.

Yesterday, some huge country music stars turned out to unveil the legendary wooden circle that fits into this stage. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And there you go. It looks simple to you and I, but this is a huge deal for people in Nashville. Brad Paisley, Little Jimmy Pickens helping to install this oak circle made from the original Opry stage.

SANCHEZ: That's cool.

BALDWIN: Musicians consider it the heart of country music where legends have scuffed their boots and danced on that famous stage, really sort of got their careers to begin there.

SANCHEZ: absolutely.

BALDWIN: And to celebrate Paisley and Dickens sang the classic "Will the Circle be Unbroken." The multi-million dollar restoration project, though, not done yet, but it's a big -- it's encouraging because it's actually opening earlier than we thought. It's actually opening September 28, just in time for the 85th anniversary celebration, which is planned for the next month of October.

But huge news from people in Nashville. You need that to happen.

SANCHEZ: Can I make a pitch? I'm going to this, OK? Outside my journalistic, supposed to be -- can I do it? If you're sitting there at home, I've got something to tell you. If you've never been to Nashville, go.

BALDWIN: It's awesome.

SANCHEZ: It is one of the most remarkable cities in the United States. And if you like to party --

BALDWIN: And if you like live music, there's something for everyone.

SANCHEZ: You just take it in. It's got that New Orleans or Times Square feel.

BALDWIN: It's got a soul.

SANCHEZ: It's that cool, for the record.

BALDWIN: Also cool, this next story, big news out of Hollywood. It is a boy. It is confirmed now that John Travolta and Kelly Preston are having a baby boy. We have yet to confirm the due date, but apparently she found out she was pregnant just over a year after their 16-year-old son Jet, remember, died from that seizure during that vacation in the Bahamas. They also have a 10-year-old girl Ella.

And we checked twitter. Who's tweeting? Joan Rivers just tweeted us.

SANCHEZ: She's tweeting us? Look at that! "Rick Sanchez, CNN from Joan Rivers," she says "Travolta confirms having a boy but not delivery date. Depends on traffic and if the scientology spaceship makes all the lights." Did she say that?

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: Hopefully at us as we're laughing with her. But it's awesome news for the Travoltas.

SANCHEZ: Is that mean or funny or both?

BALDWIN: I think a lit bit of both. But so is she.

SANCHEZ: Well done. So glad to have you back. If you sneeze, look the other way.

BALDWIN: That's right.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Weight loss and counting calories, the business of being a "skinny bitch." I got you to look up, didn't I. You know why I'm allowed to say that?

BALDWIN: Because it's a book title.

SANCHEZ: It's a book title, exactly. We're going to talk to one of the authors of that book. That's ahead.

And it was called one of Washington's worst kept secrets until now. He's out. Who is he? The most intriguing person in the news on this day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: It's time now to check the list of the most intriguing people in the news today. The reason I waited for that animation, by the way, is I had to cough.

He's a guy who led George W. Bush's election victory in 2004 as campaign manager. He sang the conservative song, all verses of it, to get his Republican candidate in the White House. And they won. Job well done, right? That's what he's supposed to do.

Now today he has a different tune, and this is what's creating controversy -- pro same-sex marriage and more rights for same sex couples, issues that he directly opposed, more than opposed, led a fight against, when he was chairman of the Republican national committee.

Here's who we're talking about -- Ken Mehlman. He was elected the RNC chairman in 2005. Today he says that he's comfortable enough to announce that he is a gay man and will now work to promote the very thing that he worked against, the national legalization of the same- sex marriage.

This is a heck of the story. He says that he can do that, and he says he is can remain a Republican. For making his personal life public, something he says he should have done years ago, we are naming today Ken Mehlman, at the very least, the most intriguing person in the news on this day.

So what do Republicans and gays feel about Ken Mehlman? Gay Republicans, they're called the "log cabin" Republicans. We've put a call into them, and they're going to be here to talk about Ken Mehlman next and field some very direct questions. I'm looking very much forward to this interview.

Also, remember how the government promised to retry the Blagojevich brothers, that the feds case was rock solid? Today they backed off and gave one brother a pass. Which one is it? Hmm.

And before we go to break, I want to share something with you. I don't know if you're watching last night, but, you know, every night I talk to my old Miami buddy, Larry King. And last night we showed a moment in primetime about my book called "Conventional Idiocy." Larry brought this up, by the way. I didn't. Watch how this thing goes down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: I love that title.

SANCHEZ: You know what? We'll spend some time talking about it at some point, you and me. Should we do it on TV?

KING: You bet.

SANCHEZ: OK, you've got it.

KING: Hell, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Thanks, Larry.

KING: He just booked himself. Sneaky little guy.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Here's the interview I was telling you about that I'm looking forward to doing because this is really an interesting question faced by more than just Ken Mehlman, but other Americans.

A former top Bush aide has come out of the closet. His name is Ken Mehlman. You remember Ken Mehlman. He has told his family and friends now that he is gay. Yesterday he told "The Atlantic" magazine. His revelation has spurred instant debate in political circles. And that question is, do you consider Mehlman a courageous conservative or a shameful hypocrite?

Trust me, the twitter board, as I've been checking it, it's one of the most talked about things out there. It's a trender. I will ask that question to our Clarke Cooper. He is the executive director of Log Cabin Republicans, a conservative group that supports equality for gay and lesbian Americans.

Thank you, sir, so much for joining us. And let me start with this. So Mehlman is one of the people who's spearheading -- one of them -- you know, with Karl Rove and others, the idea that they should come up with an amendment, some would argue for political reasons because it was never talked about after the election, to make sure that gays could not get married. Ken Mehlman was part of that push, and now we learn that he was gay. How does that sit with you?

R. CLARKE COOPER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS: Well, Rick, for starters, I don't want to speak for ken but maybe you have read and your viewers have seen, he has actually come out and said that he apologizes for those actions.

Again, I can't speak for his coming out process. I can speak to mine. It is different for everybody. The clock is different.

And for anybody who's ever come out to family, friends, colleagues, peers, it's a very difficult, it's a crucible for one to go through. I was working for then governor Jeb Bush when I started struggling with it. I did not come out until the end of the first term of the Bush administration. I was blessed that all my colleagues and the Bush-Cheney government were very supportive.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I get it. I get it. Let me follow up the question now. I get it. If you're a person who's not dealing with an issue specifically, I get it, or if you're an underling, for example. You are the guy in the room, and you know what, it's not my place to tell the bosses what to do.

But if you're in a position of power as he was -- he was no underling. He was one of the top dogs, one of the top decision makers. And they're making a decision that is essentially going to hurt gay Americans, should he have stepped up and said, either, "a," guys I don't want a part of it or, "b," I'm going to resign?

COOPER: Rick, the question you're asked is based solely on the presumption that he had reconciled with himself that he was gay. So if that's true, but we don't know that, then the answer should be, yes, he should have. But you have not had to come out because you're not gay.

SANCHEZ: Right.

COOPER: But I have, and I can tell you, if you're in that phase, if one is in that phase before one is actually come out, be it to family, friends, neighbors, colleagues, you have to come out to yourself first.

SANCHEZ: Then I'm confused. You're --

COOPER: Hold on.

SANCHEZ: You're confusing. I keep hearing --

COOPER: No, no, no.

SANCHEZ: -- that you're born gay, and now you're saying --

COOPER: That's true. No, no, no, you are. It's an orientation. But I can tell you based in society, we all grow up in western society, most of western society, that that's not the norm. And so if you're told that, you know that, raised that way, I can tell you from my own experience growing in Tallahassee, Florida, that there were not many positive or even any references to same-sex couples or anything same-sex oriented.

So I had girlfriends in high school and university. I'm sure Ken did too. But there's a point where before someone is publicly out, they have to go through their own personal reconciliation process.

And so, I don't know when that happened for Ken. That could have been a month ago or a year ago. I would bet it probably wasn't happening four years ago, because again, I know what happened with myself and how long it took for me to get where I am now at the point talking to you on CNN openly about my orientation.

But it's a long journey for many people.

SANCHEZ: That's interesting. No, listen.

COOPER: It is not a choice.

SANCHEZ: You're good. You know what, you're honest. You're forthright. You're sharing real conviction with us. This is a fascinating conversation that I'm having with you, and it's a free exchange of ideas as I learn more about this.

In the end, do you think most people -- because I have been reading the tweets and I won't judge them one way or the other, but in the end do you think most people think of Ken Mehlman in a negative or positive way because of result of this story?

COOPER: Right. Admittedly, I'm biased. You know, as a fellow Bush appointee, I served with Ken. As a Republican, and as representing the Log Cabin Republicans, I'm going to say, yes.

But, if one wanted to take a more pragmatic view or macro view of this --

SANCHEZ: It's hard to forgive.

COOPER: The answer is still yes, because he's going to be, as we say in the military, he is going to be a force multiplier for positive change. He is a force --

SANCHEZ: So you cannot not only forgive him yourself but you would advise others to forgive him if indeed he went along with something that he wasn't comfortable with and that wasn't in his heart during those Bush years?

COOPER: Well, depending on -- I don't know where peoples' different faiths are. But I happen to be a person of faith. I happen to be a person of faith and urge those of you who in their faiths have, you know, the matter of forgiveness.

As a practicing Episcopalian, forgiveness is a big tenet in our faith. And so it would be -- there's a certain hypocrisy I think in the community to immediately castigate Ken and, you know --

SANCHEZ: I get that.

COOPER: -- throw him under the bus, yes.

SANCHEZ: I just like the fact you're a practicing Episcopalian who worked for Jeb Bush and grew up around Bobby Bowden. Well done, sir.

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: Yes. I remember you on Channel 7, Rick. I remember when you were in Miami. We used to watch you when I worked --

SANCHEZ: We'll be right back. My thanks to Mr. Clarke Cooper for joining us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: By the way, we have got some tweets that I want to share with you. That conversation I just had moments ago with Mr. Clarke Cooper from the Log Cabin Republicans getting a lot of traction and a lot of folks are commenting on it. I thought it was a good fair -- I liked him. I liked my conversation with him.

Here's Howard Kurtz. He's tweeting. He says "Ken Mehlman admitted if he'd come out sooner, quote, "he might have played a role in keeping the party from pushing an anti-gay agenda." So, he's having second thoughts according to my colleague.

Also, "Ken Mehlman is an incredible friend and mentor." This is from Kevin Madden. "My admiration for him is unshakable." He worked with the former governor of Massachusetts, by the way.

And then Dave Holmes, journalist, says "I'd love to congratulate Ken Mehlman but I'm going to wait until polling indicates and it would be politically viable for me to do so." That's interesting.