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Rick's List

Former President Carter Returns to U.S. With Released American Prisoner From North Korea; Has the Economy Stalled, Again?; A Return to Old-Fashioned Farming; Deli Meat Recalled from Wal-Marts Due to Bacteria; Xavier University Hosts President Obama; Floods Devastate Pakistan; Hurricanes Threaten Gulf

Aired August 27, 2010 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Ali Velshi, stick around. We're talking economics momentarily, OK?

Meantime, an American sentenced to eight years of hard time in North Korea, finally home. We're talking within the last hour here brought home, granted amnesty with the help of former President Jimmy Carter. We're live at his homecoming. And then there is this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN (voice-over): Here's what's making the LIST today.

It's been five years since Hurricane Katrina devastated parts of the Gulf Coast. We're looking back at this moment and New Orleans' rise from the floodwaters.

Meantime, urgent efforts to save lives today in yet another flood zone.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: What are the chances this child is going to surprise?

DR. G.R. BOUK, PAKISTAN CIVIL HOSPITAL: Fifty-fifty.

BALDWIN: Millions in Pakistan still in desperate need of aid. Will it get there in time to save these people trapped, homeless and dying of disease?

And check this out, high-def video from half-a-mile underground -- an inside look at how trapped miners in Chile are living, what they're saying and singing while they wait to be rescued.

Giving a new meaning to the phrase dodging traffic.

The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why we keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's news right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: All right, topping the LIST right now, former President Jimmy Carter. He has traveled long distances here to North Korea and has now secured the release of a U.S. citizen. This was him coming down the stairs off that airplane within the last hour.

The American who followed him believed to be a Christian activist, there he is. He was arrested and accused of illegally crossing the China border into the communist nation of North Korea. These pictures, as I said, coming in to CNN less than an hour ago, and the family -- I'm guessing that's mom -- all reunited.

Now, the family did not address the media directly, but did issue a statement to CNN's Susan Candiotti. And essentially they thanked former President Carter, the entire Carter Center and the government of North Korea, among others.

And so Susan Candiotti has been all over this story for us. She's joining me now live from Boston's Logan Airport.

And, Susan, we're watching the scene of the families, the hugs, the welcoming home. Set the scene for me. Take us back and just describe what that was like and also answer the question, if you even can, as to why this involved the former President Jimmy Carter?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, setting the scene for you first, it was -- I would best describe it as nervous anticipation.

But when the plane pulled up and the family walked out and they embraced Aijalon Gomes for the first time in -- well, since Christmastime, according to family members, it was clearly a joyful experience. There were tears, there were hugs. They carried a homemade sign.

President Carter, former President Carter (INAUDIBLE) up to the side and slowly members of the family went over to shake his hand. Obviously they have been very grateful, issuing statements that they're extremely happy that he went over there on a private humanitarian mission to free him.

But as you indicated, Brooke, no one really knows right now why Aijalon Gomes crossed over the border from South Korea to North Korea. He's been teaching in South Korea for a number of years, at least a decade, family members tell me. They describe him as outgoing, caring and that since he crossed over the border, they can't imagine, they say, why. All they know is that he probably had the best of intentions. They said he lived his life trying to help people -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: And, Susan, I know there are still many questions. You mentioned one. Why was Gomes in North Korea? Two, do we know why it was Jimmy Carter? I know the State Department, P.J. Crowley has been very specific, saying, look, this is a humanitarian mission. But have we checked with the White House yet. Do we know their position is on Carter's intervention in Pyongyang?

CANDIOTTI: If the White House had made a statement, we haven't seen one from them as yet. But we will be watching out for that.

The State Department throughout has tried its best, it said, to try to win the release. But of course there are no diplomatic relations between the two countries, relationship very, very strained at this time.

And President Carter has insisted all along what he did was done privately. The State Department said it was not a sanctioned trip, although they certainly applauded his efforts for going over to North Korea and winning the release of Mr. Gomes.

(CROSSTALK)

CANDIOTTI: Everyone wants to know --

BALDWIN: Sure.

CANDIOTTI: -- whether President Carter might have taken with him a private message of some kind.

We know that for the longest time, talks between -- among six parties to denuclearize North Korea have been going on for quite some time and (INAUDIBLE) trying to get them off the dime. Did President Carter send a message of that kind when he met with the chief negotiator of those six-party talks? That's with whom he spoke in order to win the release of Mr. Gomes.

BALDWIN: And I think that, Susan Candiotti, is still sort of the million-dollar question. Were there any discussions of possibly reigniting these nuclear disarmament talks? And perhaps we will hear more. Perhaps the Carter Center will release some kind of statement letting us know what might have happened on the inside of that conversation.

But, for now, we will leave it there. Susan Candiotti, thank you.

And guess what? Let's roll over to the Twitter board, because we're already hearing now from -- from Jason Carter. This is Jimmy Carter's grandson. He tweeted Rick. He says: "I think my grandfather tries to take advantage of every opportunity he has to do good. I am proud of him today."

Jason Carter, we thank you for that tweet.

Now, take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: Are you going to run out of space eventually? There are hundreds of thousands of people out there.

DR. G.R. BOUK, PAKISTAN CIVIL HOSPITAL: Yes.

GUPTA: What happens to them?

BOUK: At moments, we can't do anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Disaster in Pakistan. Look at these babies. There are urgent efforts to save lives in the flood zone and urgent warnings for people to leave. But the question is, where do these millions of people go and how many, how many more will die before help arrives? That is ahead. You saw Dr. Gupta on that.

Also, incredible images from 2,000 feet underground. We're talking about those 33 miners likely trapped they are now being told officially until Christmas, but they're giving us this fascinating glimpse into life inside this box, 600 square feet. Imagine. You will hear their desperate pleas. That is next on the LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: And now I want to take you to a story on our follow-up list.

Have you been following this story as closely as I have? I'm talking about these 33 miners who have been trapped in this tiny cave deep down below the earth's surface in Chile. They have now been told basically in no uncertain terms that it will take three or four months to get out. That's according to the head of the rescue operation there.

Now, that news comes as we get our first clear look into their lives in this extraordinary, yet, may I add, grainy video. This is a minicam that was dropped down one of those plastic tubes down, the tubes they have been feeding these guys, down into the supply hole. And as you can see in this video, these are some of the miners.

This was shot yesterday. They're turning this dank, dark underworld into more or less it's a world of their own. Look, he's showing the medicine cabinet. Let's bring the sound up full. And I want to listen in and watch just a little bit of this tour. It was led by one of the miners down there.

So, they're walking, they're talking, they're showing different places. It's amazing how organized they are. They're surprisingly in good spirits and seem to really want to reassure their loved ones. They had different messages via video to their friends and family. Take a listen to one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I want you guys to know that we're tranquil down here. We want to get out of here. We're not going to stay down here. We're going to get out of here. Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This guy doesn't want to get out of here, because then he will have to take a shower. And this one hasn't taken a shower.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Many thanks to the people who are outside working to get us out. We hear you guys working. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: They hear them working. Are you hearing that? They're grateful. But even so, there are certainly emotional moments for some of the men. Listen to one miner's message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I would like to send a big thank you to my family and all of the people outside working for us. And I want to thank God for all that he does and continues to do. God bless all of our co-workers outside helping to rescue us. I send them a big hug. And in the name of Jesus Christ, God bless them today and always. God bless you today and always.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You heard him get emotional, Agrera Escarios (ph). He's saying, thank you, God. At one point within this 26-minute video, the men actually break into a chorus. They're singing Chile's national anthem. Here they go, so very -- very patriotic about a half-mile underground.

Again, according to the head of this whole rescue operation and effort, the men have finally been told that they will be in the mine for three to four months, possibly here Christmastime.

Also, listen to this. I want to tell you the story. This mother, she gives birth in New Orleans just before Hurricane Katrina hits, right? So, we're talking five years ago. So, what happens is, she is separated from her newborn. Imagine as a mother. She is separated from her newborn because the newborn is placed in another hospital. We have her dramatic and emotional story just ahead.

Also, talking economics. I mentioned Ali Velshi. He will be back talking to me about what the Fed chair, Ben Bernanke, said today. The government is ready to take -- and I'm quoting -- "unconventional measures to help the economy." But he warns the options come at a big cost. So are we at that point yet? Ali will be down to break it all down next on the LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: OK. Let's start talking economic news. We have been going over reports and reports out today. And they show a recovery that appears -- appears -- pretty much stalled.

Here's just a little bit of that trouble that jumped at us today. Take a look. Now, the GDP, which measures our economic growth, was completely anemic, growing by just 1.6 percent. All right, that's the big number that we're hearing now. And then there's the news from the Mortgage Bankers Association that the number of people falling behind on their mortgages is on the rise. Now, some experts are wondering whether a new round of foreclosures might actually be on the horizon. And when Fed Chief Ben Bernanke -- there he is -- he talked today in Wyoming at this bankers conference in Jackson Hole and he said that the recovery has slowed and he saw some red flags.

So, we're tapping, I'm tapping the expertise of my friend Ali Velshi.

Ali Velshi, you and I chatted about this earlier. We're all kind of ready for the factory doors to fly open and we can all sing the hallelujah chorus. But we not seeing --

(CROSSTALK)

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: No, and that's the problem. We all thought -- with any normal recession you're supposed to come out and there's supposed to be a pop. And with this mother of all recessions, it was supposed to be even better. That's the problem.

It's not that things are so terrible. It's that they're not really good. This is a glass a quarter full. Let me tell you what Ben Bernanke said at that rocking bankers conference in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. He talked about the consumer and he talked about businesses.

Let me just show you what he said about the consumer, first of all. Credit is still hard to come by for a lot of people. And that's holding people back.

But look at that 6 percent. People are saving. That's the household savings rate. We haven't seen that in a long time. We were -- before the recession, we were almost zero. People were not saving anything at all. They're not saving -- they're saving. That means they're not spending.

Ben Bernanke thinks maybe we are going to push that spending into 2011. And when people start spending, that, Brooke, is where that gusto comes in. People start hiring. And then the economy feels good.

One of the problems we have got is houses. You just talked about houses. What's happening is that it's hard for good people to get credit. So while there are houses that are inexpensive and mortgage rates are really low, we're not actually seeing that. Now, that is continuing to keep home prices down and that, Ben Bernanke hopes, will get more people into the market if the banks will loosen up and give more people loans who can actually afford them.

So, that's what he said about consumers. Let's talk about what he had to say about businesses, because that's such a big part of this, as you know, Brooke. Businesses are spending on some things. They're buying computers. They're buying business equipment. They're just not hiring people at the moment.

What are we building in this country? Not a whole lot. Other than the stimulus, what we're building things to do with the energy sector, oil, mining. Anything to do with energy, that is continuing to grow, but otherwise not a lot of building going on.

How about businesses and their ability to raise money? Well, large businesses can get credit because they don't use banks. They have a whole different credit system that we saw come to a grinding halt in 2008. But they can get businesses.

What I -- what I'm trying to show you on the right side there, small businesses do what you and I do if they need money. They do have to go to a bank. And that is tough. That's -- they're just not getting enough access to money. At the end of a recession like this, it's the small businesses that hire people. They're the engine of growth.

And that's why that's not happening. Also, as you and I have discussed before, Brooke, big businesses have lots of money on hand in many cases. They're hoarding it. They're not spending it because they're waiting for people to show up and buy stuff to justify hiring more people.

Let's talk about unemployment, because we know that is at the heart of all of this. What Ben Bernanke said about unemployment is that what companies are doing, until they see people stepping up to the game, they're not hiring more people. What they're doing is that they're bringing in freelancers, part-timers and temporary workers.

And they're asking people to work more hours in the day. They're doing everything they can not to bring more people on to the payroll right now because they're uncertain of how it's going to go. That's the big view of the economy at the moment.

BALDWIN: But if we talk unemployment, I know what this GDP number, which is lower than what was anticipated, right? So, we're talking about the 1.6 percent.

VELSHI: Right.

BALDWIN: Generally -- and correct me -- but it should be between 2 percent or 3 percent in order to at least sustain that unemployment number.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: Or get people to hire.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Or get people to hire, make it better for people at home who are without work.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: Right. Once you get past sort of 3.5 -- 3 percent, 3.5 percent, you start worrying about inflation. And if you're below 2 percent, businesses don't think it's strong enough to hire people. So, you want to get up upward of 2. We were at 2.4 percent on the first estimate. But these things get reestimated every three months. So, it went to 2.4 to 1.6 percent. And it's not just that. It's that we were down and then we were up. And then we're doing this. This is the part that has people worried. At the end of a recession, you want to be down and then you want to do this.

BALDWIN: We want to do this.

VELSHI: And you really want to enjoy this. You want to be buying stuff knowing it's going to go up in price.

BALDWIN: But we're not this yet.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: You want a raise. You want all that kind of stuff.

What may happen is the recovery might be level and rocky as opposed to a hill up.

BALDWIN: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let me read this tweet, because we have a tweet from a Harvard Business School professor here. He's tweeting Rick's account saying that: "The U.S. economy grows at only 1.6 percent, not surprising, but worrisome. Long past time to admit economy and jobs are not recovering."

That brings to a point an op-ed I read in "The Times" this morning where it's just kind of are we -- and we being the sort of all-encompassing government, et cetera, are we in denial?

VELSHI: We might be. We might be.

BALDWIN: Yes.

VELSHI: Look, and some of these -- and the point is, we got to fix it.

So, we're all part of this economy. As consumers, as media, as government and as businesses, we need to sort of say, what's our role going forward in this? This was an economy that was driven by consumers. And now the consumer is sitting it out. What are we going to do to replace that?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Ali Velshi, smart guy.

VELSHI: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

VELSHI: Good to see you.

BALDWIN: Thank so much. Enjoy your weekend.

VELSHI: Thank you.

BALDWIN: All right, coming up, get out now, that is the urgent warning to millions in Pakistan. As more and more people there are struggling simply to survive, it appears there's no end in sight to the deadly flooding in Pakistan. We are taking you there, along with Dr. Sanjay Gupta. That is ahead.

Also, you checking out your eggs in your refrigerator? We're all worried about the salmonella, right? It's this whole recall nationwide forcing all of us to ask, what's really in our foods and are they dangerous? Wait until you see how one farm is actually doing things the old-fashioned way. The question is, so, is it safer?

That is next on the LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let's talk eggs. And in light of this huge recall, right, the contamination with salmonella, we sent Martin Savidge to this chicken farm where they apparently do things the old-fashioned way, no cages, no forced diet, no huge barns filled with thousands and thousands of chickens.

Take a look. Martin Savidge.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, with all the obvious concern there's been about eggs and about salmonella and about food safety, we decided to come here to Chattahoochee Hills, where this community has a very unique approach on preserving food quality. You could say it goes way back in the past.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (voice-over): We're here in Serenbe. We're at Serenbe Farms, which is actually a new urbanist community. It's located about 30 miles south of Atlanta. Oversimplifying, it's basically living a life the way we used to live, say, maybe 100 years ago.

And that especially comes into play when we talk about food and talk about chickens. Immediately, you here see the chickens raised here look different than, perhaps, the industrialized version you might expect. Say hello to Paige Witherington. She is the farm czar or the farm manager here. And we're going to talk about these chickens.

First of all, what is different? They're organic. They're free- range.

PAIGE WITHERINGTON, SERENBE FARMS: They're organic and free- range. We move -- continually move this paddock, so they can have access to fresh grass and bugs. And they get to forage, like chickens used to forage and like they should in nature. SAVIDGE: And that's sort of the idea, go back to raising them the way they were accustomed, the way they grew up?

WITHERINGTON: Exactly.

SAVIDGE: Well, I want to show you the eggs here, because not only the chickens look different. The eggs look absolutely beautiful. It's almost like you decorated them for Easter, but you didn't.

(LAUGHTER)

WITHERINGTON: No, we didn't. We have a huge diversity of breeds of chickens here. So, they all lay different colored eggs. So, you have the bluer eggs and the green eggs and the dark brown eggs, white eggs. And it really makes for a picturesque collection of eggs there.

SAVIDGE: And they're not only different on the outside. Show us they're different on the inside.

WITHERINGTON: All right. Yes.

SAVIDGE: We're going to challenge your egg-breaking skills.

WITHERINGTON: Let's do one of the green eggs. And we will see what this looks like on the inside.

SAVIDGE: OK.

WITHERINGTON: Most of the time, our eggs have a beautiful, rich orange yolk.

SAVIDGE: Look at that. Wow. Yes. Yes.

WITHERINGTON: And that means that they have been forging on all kinds of natural insects and grasses and roots and vegetables. And this orange yolk really makes a richer, more delectable egg.

SAVIDGE: So, how does all of this mean that the egg is healthier?

WITHERINGTON: Because the chickens have a really well-rounded diet and they're not in a stress, confined area, they get to live a happy chicken life. And they're much less susceptible to the illnesses that we're seeing in these industrialized chicken facilities.

SAVIDGE: So, the lesson is, you have got happy chickens making healthy eggs -- back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Happy chickens and healthy eggs. But, you know, look, a lot of unhealthy eggs. And if you're thinking, which eggs can I eat, which eggs can't I eat, we're making it really easy for you. We have this Web page we have put together. And we have put a lot of the important information together really to help you sort through the good and the bad.

So to find this latest on the food recalls or really just food safety issues in general, head to CNN.com/Eatocracy.

Well, we should tell you eggs not the only foods we should be checking here. Did you have a deli meat sandwich today for lunch? There is now this major recall involving deli meat you might have picked at one very particular huge grocery store. The brand-new details you need to know ahead.

And take a look at this. This had all of us talking today. I'm watching with you. That's a hole in the road. And apparently there are these workers. There they are. They have to dart in and out of traffic trying to fix the potholes. Are you kidding? There they go back and forth. The video and the outrage in, yes, "Fotos," that is next on the LIST.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You ever get headaches? I get maybe a migraine once a year. But you ever one of those nagging headache that just will not go away? This next guy knows exactly what I'm talking about. Time for "Fotos."

Listen to this. Take a look at this picture as I tell you. The man was shot in the head, but didn't realize it for five years. This is the X-ray of the slug. Do you see it? What is that, in the back? Are we seeing this together? Before doctors removed it.

Now, he has been in -- he was at this New Year's party. I guess he had had a little too much to drink five years ago in Germany, vaguely remembers receiving a blow to the head. But he didn't realize he had been shot until he went to the doctor years later complaining of headaches. Hello.

Now, take a look at this shot with me. This is Interstate 20 here in Atlanta. Look at these guys, back and forth, back and forth. The Department of Transportation workers are patching this pothole on the fly, dodging traffic. Look at them. There they go in and then they have to run out.

Drivers are complaining that the repair tactic is unsafe. Can we say cones, gentlemen?

And this is no ordinary twister you're about to see. It is a tornado of fire burning its way across Honolulu, Hawaii. Wow. It was created by a terrifying combination of strong winds whipping through brush fires that have charred 1,400 acres of the island so far. Look at this smoke.

Firefighters say the blaze, 60 percent contained. That is a lot of fire. And that is "Fotos." By the way, you can see them yourself. Go to Rick's blog, CNN.com/RickSanchez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody need help?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The chaotic days and weeks following hurricane Katrina, no doubt, sparked some big controversies. But did police officers really get orders to shoot and to kill? That's an investigation with some explosive findings. That is ahead.

Also, talk about finding a bright side of a disaster. While crews worked to clean up tar balls, those icky little things along the Gulf, one young lady helping to take them home, and she's hoping they will help her go to college. I'll explain. That's on my trending list. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, trending today, I'm talking about food. But not necessarily the kind of food you want to be eating. It's recalls really.

First it was eggs being recalled nationwide for the salmonella, right? Now deli meats from Wal-Marts across the country could be contaminated with listeria, that's a bacteria, according to the Department of Agriculture.

Where is this meat coming from? It's coming from this company in Buffalo, New York. It's Zimco Industries reportedly owned by food giant Tyson foods. They are recalling 380,000 pounds of deli meat.

I'm not talking about the individually wrapped deli meat itself. We're talking about these market-sized, grab-and-go sandwiches. If you bought one, take a look with me, these are the affected sandwiches -- ham and Swiss, Italian hero, roast beef and cheddar and smokehouse hero.

If you bought one, Wal-Mart says, bring it back. They will give you a full refund. Apparently bacteria was found in a sample that was taken from one of these sandwiches at a store in Georgia. And even though no one has been reported sick, the recall comes, of course, as we mentioned, on the heels of that salmonella egg recall.

So last night, I was standing right here and I asked the director of the film "Food, Inc." why he thinks these recalls keep happening. Here's what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT KENNER, DIRECTOR, "FOOD, INC.": On one level, we're getting food cheaper than at any time in history, so there are advantages on some levels. But the disadvantages are when you're putting tens of thousands of hens into one building and you get one hand that is sick, all of a sudden you're contaminating all the other hens. So you have the chance of many more contaminated eggs than if you had one small farm.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: All right, on my trending list number two -- you would think with the months and months of clean-up after the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, the folks along the gulf coast would want to put the mess behind them.

Not so fast for one Alabama teen. She is taking those tar balls and making jewelry out of them. Eighteen-year-old Jessica Boykin said she and her dad came up with the idea after collecting the tar that was washed up on Dauphin Island. Here she is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA BOYKIN, MAKES JEWELRY WITH TARBALLS: I see that god created something ugly for us to figure out how to make something pretty out of them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We talked about what to do if we could do anything. And we thought it would be need to have a souvenir of basically a relic of an environmental disaster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You see them. They were making necklaces, bracelets, earrings, by heating up the tar so it separates from the sand and they paint wit acrylic. People are buying it and she's using the profits to help her pay for college.

Five years later, what happened to a mother who was separated from her newborn during hurricane Katrina? You might have seen this story five years ago. This is truly incredible. And our CNN cameras played a big role. That is ahead.

Also, President Obama is scheduled to speak in the heart of New Orleans this weekend at Xavier University. And the president of that university is standing by. I will talk to him about the rebuilding efforts, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Five years ago today, Katrina became a category three hurricane. And within just two days, two days, this major levee, massive levee in New Orleans would fail and the city would begin to flood.

Now, among the casualties, the campus of Xavier University. The university reopened in 2006 and since then, continues to grow. In fact, this fall, take a look at these pictures. The school will be sporting a brand-new 60,000 square feet pavilion for the college of pharmacy, which is highly ranked, by the way, and many other renovations currently under way.

So to talk more about the then and the now is long-time president Dr. Norman Francis, president of Xavier University. Dr. Francis, thank you for talking with me because I know you've been in that post for a long time. You have perspective. And I also want to just mention Xavier as the nation's only historically black and Catholic university. So, sir, good to see you. I know it was August 2005. You had record enrollment, right, some 4,100 students. Katrina happened. Wham. Your campus is under water. Take me back. Was there any point when you just wondered if your school would survive?

NORMAN FRANCIS, PRESIDENT, XAVIER UNIVERSITY OF LOUISIANA: Well, it's interesting because when Katrina hit us, that was the largest in our history. It was a terrible jolt, because we lost everything. We had six feet of water on the campus. The city was closed. We were closed. No money for operations.

But we had one thing. We were determined we were going to come back. And my small band of administrators and the like met 140 miles away, and we said, we're coming back. And they said, when? I said January the 27th, 2006.

And it was a miracle. We worked for four and a half months. Of the people who worked, about 40 of them, 85 percent of those people had lost their homes. But their total focus was bringing Xavier back.

And you have to imagine what that was like, working 140 miles away, trying to rebuild the school, had no faculty, no students. But we had to plan. No money.

And the only thing I can say to you is that there were two things going for us. We had determination, faith that we were going to come back, and the feeling that students needed us, the country needed us. We had done too much in terms of our history in health care, our pharmacists or doctors or lawyers, that we weren't going to give up because a storm had hit us. And with the faith, we did it.

BALDWIN: Yes, I hear your faith and I hear your determination. But how did you do it? I know every single building, at least the first floor was submerged in water. What was the biggest challenge, sir, in rebuilding, in reopening the doors?

FRANCIS: Well, the first challenge was -- I mean, it was immediate because the water was still on the campus. We had to do what you call remediate. We had make sure we brought generators in every building in order to keep the cool air in the building to keep the mold from going up. The mold hit all the first floors.

The problem is, if you don't do it early, and we did it early, that helped us. So we were able to contain our job for the first floor. The second and third floors were all right.

But then we were fortunate to have a contractor we brought on board immediately. The students were able to get to other schools, and we were able to start reprogramming everything.

I call it a small miracle. But it took planning. And we described our planning in about three phrases -- one remediation, the other was recovery, and the other was enhancement. And we are still in recovery. But we are in enhancements now. BALDWIN: Dr. Francis, let's talk about the recovery. I think as you described fighting the mold, I guess, five years ago, and we're looking at these pictures of the rebuilding, what about enrollment? You mentioned it was record enrollment that August. Perhaps ironically, it was huge numbers for you.

And you have right now crime currently in the city. I know you have FEMA trailers in some of your parking lots. What are you fighting in terms of getting your numbers back to pre-Katrina enrollment?

FRANCIS: That's a good question, because I'm pleased to say to you we made a plan for that four years after we got hit in '06 -- '06 was the first full year. The '05 year, we continued from January to August and we had 76 percent of the youngsters to come back. And ironically, Senator Barack Obama was the commencement speaker.

In the fall of '07, we had half of the freshman class that we had earlier. As of this point today, our enrollment is back to almost pre-Katrina numbers. The freshman class is now at about 100 as of two weeks ago. And on an average, it was roughly 900. We're now at 3,500. We're about 500 short. But that 35,500 is a great number.

BALDWIN: So you're getting there. I hear you, you're getting there, Dr. Francis. And you mentioned the president, and my final question to you is, I hear the president is coming to New Orleans this weekend. Tell me the story. Did you pick up the phone and say, hey, Mr. President, would you like to come to Xavier? How did that go down?

FRANCIS: It was just the opposite. The president called and said, can I come back and give a talk on recovery and why it's so important for us in the administration to keep the coastlines of Louisiana and New Orleans going? I said, yes, sir, Mr. President. We are happy to have you.

And he'll be with us at 2:00 on Sunday. I'm sure he's going to have a tremendous speech. He's got his own challenges and he's addressing them. But we are looking forward to it, and we are looking forward to showing him how far we've come in recovery and to show what the resilience is for the people of New Orleans.

I've never been more optimistic. It's not my home, but I've been here 60 years, 42 years as a president. I've never been more optimistic than I am on the economy of New Orleans, and St. Xavier is a model of how you recover.

BALDWIN: Forty-two years as president of this university. It's incredibly impressive, and I appreciate your resilience and your optimism. Norman Francis, president of Xavier University in New Orleans. Thank you, sir.

FRANCIS: Thank you very much.

BALDWIN: Thank you. Now, who says -- ladies, who says men still can't be romantic years into their marriage? Listen to this story. Seven months here, a U.S. soldier has been gone in Afghanistan. When he comes home, did a little something that had his wife in tears at the office. That emotional moment gave me goose bumps when I watched it. That is ahead.

Also, one of the major faces of the Katrina disaster speaking out about what happened and what is next for New Orleans. He is our most intriguing person of the day. That is next on "The List."

As we go to break, he's a look at how we put today's newscast together. Time now for what we like to call "The Rick Vid".

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BALDWIN: All right, time now to check the list of the most intriguing people in the news today. Take a look. Whether this guy likes it or not, he is still one of the names and faces of hurricane Katrina. He was in charge of the highly criticized federal disaster response, and now five years later he is telling all who will listen that what he was saying to the public was narrow, out of context talking points.

And then there was that moment when President Bush said on live TV that he was doing air flow, "a heck of a job" Reaction? "I knew the minute he said that the media and everyone else would see a disconnect between what he was saying and what I was witnessing on the ground."

Here he is, Michael Brown, the FEMA director. You remember him? He resigned while the flood waters still covered all the homes in New Orleans. He has said that the Bush administration made a fatal mistake by not being clearer about the true human impact of the disaster, and with his five years of hindsight Michael Brown is my most intriguing today.

Here we go as we're talking hurricane Katrina five-year anniversary today, this weekend. Now Chad Myers, we're talking about more trouble a-brewing in the tropics.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Sure. You have to remember, I just thought of this. We were on hurricane "K," hurricane Katrina, right?

BALDWIN: Right.

MYERS: We are only on hurricane Danielle, "D." So we have d, e, f, g, all the way to go up to k, so we are certainly at a slower pace this year than we were that year.

BALDWIN: That's a good thing.

MYERS: But Danielle, 135 miles per hour, a very large storm. It is going to miss Bermuda by a couple hundred miles but, OK. If you're missed by a boat you're still going to hear it and feel it. And so there are going to be big waves here along the eastern shores of Bermuda. In fact, there will be large waves all along the eastern part of the United States as well.

Then back out here the "e" storm Earl and maybe here right off the end of your screen maybe Fiona. It goes girl, boy, girl, boy, girl, boy all along. So that's why we're going to have the next name, which would be different.

This, in fact, is what it looks like right now on a visible satellite picture from space, from a satellite 22,000 miles up. What an impressive storm it is. Looks like a category 4 hurricane. Maybe a category three. Kind of filling in a little bit today. We'll see on the new update. It gets here in just a few minutes at the 5:00 advisory.

So there it is. Here is the next storm. This is Earl. We know basically Danielle will turn and go up like this. The thing is, Brooke, we should have a big high pressure here called the Bermuda high.

BALDWIN: To push it in?

MYERS: The Bermuda high should be pushing winds like this. And that's how Andrew, that's how Katrina, that's how all of the storms that moved from east to west get into the Gulf of Mexico or get to Florida. This high is not very strong this year so the storms are turning to the right, turning to the right, and turning to the right, which would be Danielle, which would be Earl, and probably Fiona here.

So that's good news.

BALDWIN: Keep them turning. Keep them turning.

MYERS: Bermuda is going, wait a minute. Go someplace else.

BALDWIN: Right, right, right.

MYERS: They're getting all of the shots.

BALDWIN: People on the coasts saying turn, turn, turn. Chad, thank you.

All right, we're going to show you now the chaos in Pakistan straight from the ground. Have you seen these pictures? Unbelievable. Millions are leaving with really what's left of their homes. They're struggling to survive. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is there on the ground. And that is next here on "The List." Stay there.

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BALDWIN: All right, so, as we mentioned, we're going to talk about Pakistan and the devastation with all the floods. We sent Dr. Sanjay Gupta there. He is talking to all of these different people and tweeting as well. Here is what Dr. Gupta is tweeting. He says, you shouldn't see any water in this picture. That's the town he is in Pakistan. Look at this -- total water everywhere you look.

As we look at that picture I'll tell you this. Even if it is possible to imagine the national emergency in this country it is getting worse. One million people were pushed from their homes just yesterday and today by fast rising water, and that is in addition to the already 17 million people affected by the floods.

To call it a colossal human tragedy simply is an understatement. Dr. Gupta reporting from the ground.

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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A fighting chance here in Pakistan. It is all they can hope for. This farmer didn't get any warnings when the floods came.

"We just ran," he says. He grabbed his wife. He grabbed his kids. He ran. They took all they could. You're looking at it here. You see, they are staggeringly poor, but they wanted a fighting chance. And escaping the flood they thought they made it.

"She started to get a fever. She couldn't keep anything down. She had lots of belly pain."

She is talking about her three-month-old daughter Benazir. A few days later, she described the same exact thing happening to her son, two-year-old Wazira.

GUPTA (on camera): They brought both Benazir and Wazira here to civil hospital. Doctors right away knew these children were sick, but with such limited resources there is only so much they could do. Let's take a look.

Two to three patients per bed in this hospital. Do you have enough beds? Do you have enough resources?

DR. G.R. BOUK, PAKISTAN CIVIL HOSPITAL: No. There are no resources because of the huge population.

GUPTA (voice-over): The problem, bad water everywhere. With not enough good, clean water to go around, well, many, too many have started to drink this. Millions of people -- diarrheal illness, cholera, typhoid.

GUPTA (on camera): Some of the children look very sick, and you have at least two children per bed, some on the floor. Are you going to run out of space eventually? There are hundreds of thousands of people out there.

BOUK: Yes.

GUPTA: What happens to them?

BOUK: At the moment we can't do anything.

GUPTA: What are the chances this child is going to survive?

BOUK: I think 50/50.

GUPTA (voice-over): Wazira and Benazir wouldn't get that fighting chance. This is their obituary. They didn't even make it to the hospital. Both children died on the way there. Two-year-old Wazira weighed just eight pounds and three -month-old Benazir just two pounds.

(on camera): OK, baby. It's OK. You can tell her -- oh, I don't want her to cry. It's OK. You see her belly is very distended. That's the problem. And it's hard. It doesn't really push in.

So they've given some formula so she can keep some calories down. They've given medicine as well mainly for nausea, but really no antibiotics, which is just concerning, because that's one of the biggest problems here, people getting infections.

GUPTA: Ola and Rehamt are just two of the millions affected by the floods. This is their new normal, living among dozens of strangers on mats -- incredible, unimaginable loss, two children dead in just one week.

But now their mission: to not lose another child. To save this child, Godi (ph), who is already sick, and she wants to give Godi a fighting chance.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Sindh Province, Pakistan.

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BALDWIN: A new normal. Imagine.