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Showbiz Tonight

Gay Governor on `Oprah`; Dog Collared; Anna Nicole Photo Payout

Aired September 19, 2006 - 23:00   ET


A.J. HAMMER, CO-HOST: The first video of bounty hunter Duane "Dog" Chapman`s family as they found out he was arrested.
I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.

BROOKE ANDERSON, CO-HOST: And Lionel Richie on all the paparazzi attention he and his daughter Nicole are getting.

I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts right now.


HAMMER (voice over): On SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, Oprah and the gay governor.

Tonight, for the first time, Jim McGreevey talks about telling his wife and the whole country that he was having an affair with another man.

JIM MCGREEVEY, FMR. NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: I just said to her that I had done something very wrong, and she was -- she was stunned.

HAMMER: Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with the shocking details of McGreevey`s double life as a gay man, in his own words.

Startling new developments in the mysterious death of Anna Nicole Smith`s son. Hospital pictures surface of him, his mother, and newborn sister shortly before he died.

Tonight, is someone profiting off Daniel Smith`s tragic death? Are huge amounts of money changing hands over the pictures?

SHOWBIZ TONIGHT investigates.


HAMMER: Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.

ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood.

And true confessions don`t get any more true or blue than this, A.J.

HAMMER: That`s right, Brooke. It was Oprah and the governor today, the gay governor. Jim McGreevey went to the Oprah sex confessional to reveal the secret gay life he led even while married and governor of the state of New Jersey.


MCGREEVEY: And so my truth is that I am a gay American.

HAMMER (voice over): Two years later, it is still one of the most shocking political announcements ever aired on live TV. New Jersey Governor James McGreevey, with his wife by his side, publicly announcing that he is gay and that he has been having a secret affair with a state employee.

MCGREEVEY: I am also here today because shamefully I engaged in an adult consensual affair with another man.

HAMMER: Now, two years after leaving office, McGreevey has a new memoir called "The Confession," and he`s on a full-fledged TV tour, complete with an explosive, revealing interview on the Oprah Winfrey show.

MCGREEVEY: I lied to myself. I lied to my god. I lied to my wife.

HAMMER: And SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has for you in McGreevey`s own shocking words the details of the affair that wrecked his political career and his marriage.

MCGREEVEY: "I took Golan by the hand and led him upstairs to my bed."

HAMMER: McGreevey`s account of his journey of self-discovery.

MCGREEVEY: I thought this thing called homosexuality was evil, an abomination, something to be condemned.


MCGREEVEY: I didn`t want to own that, Oprah.

HAMMER: And the harsh words from critics who don`t buy his confession.

LENORE SKENAZY, "NY DAILY NEWS" COLUMNIST: He is coming out as a complete and utter jerk.

HAMMER: Oprah Winfrey led McGreevey through the details of his shocking announcement and what led to it, specifically the affair he says he had with his homeland security advisor, Golan Cipel, an affair that McGreevey says Cipel was threatening to make public.

WINFREY: Would you read on page 228?

HAMMER: In a riveting moment, Oprah had McGreevey read from his book, his memories of an encounter he says he had with Cipel while McGreevey`s wife was in the hospital after having their child.

MCGREEVEY: "It was the wrong thing to do. I wasn`t an ordinary citizen anymore. State troopers parked outside, my wife was recovering from a difficult pregnancy, a C-section in the hospital, and he was my employee. But I took Golan by the hand and led him upstairs to my bed. We undressed, and he kissed me."

SKENAZY: It`s strange to me that somebody would go on a media tour to admit to the world, "I am a horrible cad -- love me."

HAMMER: Lenore Skenazy of "The New York Daily News" tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT that she sees McGreevey as nothing more than a cheating cad.

SKENAZY: I guess the reason someone would be so open about seducing somebody while your wife is in the hospital is because you think that maybe in this world of everything is cool so long as you confess it, you confessed it, now you can go on with your life. But, frankly, most of us say, OK, you have admitted it, but that doesn`t mean we like you. That doesn`t mean it`s OK.

HAMMER: Oprah was also shocked at McGreevey`s double life and didn`t mind letting him know it.

WINFREY: Why, then, do you go and marry somebody knowing that you`re gay?


WINFREY: That is the one question that I think every woman who has been in this situation -- why do you do that?

MCGREEVEY: You do it because you believe that being gay is wrong, is immoral, is a sin, that you want to be godly. When I grew up, being gay was something that was shameful, something that was an abomination, something that was ridiculed. Who the heck is running towards that?

HAMMER: Now, with his new partner by his side, Australian businessman Mark O`Donnell, who McGreevey lives with, McGreevey is taking his story everywhere -- to the book stores and a number of TV shows. He told Oprah why.

MCGREEVEY: Once (ph) that I can make my amends and ask for my contrition to all those who I`ve hurt, but also to say that other individuals, there is a lesson here, and that`s about being authentic.

COOPER LAWRENCE, DEVELOPMENTAL PSYCHOLOGIST: If you look at the coming out process, sometimes people have trouble coming out to themselves.

HAMMER: But developmental psychologist Cooper Lawrence tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT that in a world where an estimated 10 percent of men who say they are straight lead secretly gay lives, McGreevey`s openness can do a lot of good for others, as well as himself.

LAWRENCE: He is doing this, I would think, in part, to say to people, I`m a politician, I`m a public figure, and I`m coming out. So maybe you should think about doing the same, because it`s better to be your true self and deal with the ramifications of that than to live a deceitful life.

HAMMER: And, like him or not, a deceitful life is something McGreevey says he is no longer living.

MCGREEVEY: It`s about being who god means for us to be.


HAMMER: And, for the record, Golan Cipel, the man who McGreevey claimed to have had an affair with, is telling a completely different story. He is telling media in his native Israel that he never had a relationship with him, and in fact has accused McGreevey of sexual harassment.

ANDERSON: We have some dramatic video to show you right now. For the first time, we`re getting a look at how Duane "Dog" Chapman`s family reacted to his arrest.

Chapman, star of A&E`s "Bounty Hunter" show was arrested as a fugitive from Mexican authorities last week. Mexico wants him in connection with Dog`s capture of rapist Andrew Luster in Mexico three years ago. They say Dog had no authority to do that.

Tonight, A&E aired a special about Dog`s legal predicament featuring his family, including his family and wife, Beth.

Take a look at this.


BETH CHAPMAN, DUANE "DOG" CHAPMAN`S WIFE: No. They won`t give me anything. They just bum rushed our house.

Yes. He can`t bail out. They won`t let him bail out.

I got to -- Leonard (ph), let me call you back. OK?

I will. I`ll call you back, Leonard (ph). Start then! Just call people. Just try to find contacts in Mexico to start working on it.


ANDERSON: Chapman is free on bail and is scheduled for an extradition hearing in November. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is also learning surprising new details about what may have led to Dog`s arrest. Could it be that the U.S. government gave him up in exchange for one of Mexico`s most notorious drug dealers?

With us tonight, managing editor of the entertainment Web site, Harvey Levin, in Glendale, California.

OK, Harvey, what`s the story here? Dog is making this sensational claim. What`s going on?

HARVEY LEVIN, MANAGING EDITOR, TMZ.COM: Well, the claim is that the U.S. government and the Mexican government engaged in horse trading, basically. The Mexican government, according to the theory, wanted Dog really bad, and the deal was that the Americans wanted this drug lord who was in prison in Mexico real bad. So they essentially secretly made a deal that the U.S. government would give up Dog and, in return, the Mexican government would give up this drug lord named Francisco Felix. And...

ANDERSON: Do you buy the claim, Harvey? Do you really think there could be something to it?

LEVIN: Well, look, I don`t know enough about what really happened here to say it`s true or not true. But, if you look at the history of things, you know, the U.S. government has been involved in lots of surreptitious deals with lots of people.

I mean, who would have thunk about Iran Contra? It sounded outlandish at the beginning and then not so as time went on.

So, you know, is it possible? Absolutely. Is there proof of it? I don`t know.

ANDERSON: Well, let`s put it into perspective. I mean, what Dog Chapman did was -- you know, it was really heroic to a lot of people. He captured one of the most notorious fugitives, Andrew Luster, a Max Factor heir, a convicted serial rapist, Harvey, somebody who was convicted of raping three women.

You`ve got to think this wouldn`t look good for the U.S. government if it turns out to be true, that the government indeed gave up this man, Dog Chapman.

LEVIN: Oh, listen, I hear you. And I do think it creates a huge P.R. problem, because a lot of people think what he did was, you know, if rough, still noble.

But, remember, this is -- you know, I`m sure if it were true it would never have meant to be public. So, you know, it`s one thing to say they would suffer bad P.R., but usually governments don`t go into this stuff thinking it is going to become public. They think they can get away with it.

Again, I`m not saying it happened, but just because it would create bad P.R., to me, doesn`t mean that it didn`t happen.

ANDERSON: Do you think it`s possible Dog could get locked up for this? I mean, how much trouble is he really in at this point?

LEVIN: Big trouble. The Mexican government is not particularly merciful when it comes to Americans who break the law, or allegedly break the law. And if, indeed, he does get extradited to Mexico, the stakes for him there could be really high.

It`s illegal to do -- technically, it is illegal to do what he did. So, you know, bounty hunting is not sanctioned down there.


LEVIN: So, you know, he could end up in prison.

ANDERSON: And we will, of course, keep you updated on what happens.

Harvey Levin, managing editor of

Thanks for sharing your information with us.

LEVIN: See you, Brooke.

ANDERSON: All right.

OK. How would you like to go back to high school? Well, we`ll talk to a guy who did just that under cover and wrote a book about the shocking things he found out.

That`s coming up.

HAMMER: Plus, new developments in the tragic death of Anna Nicole Smith`s son. A possible explanation for 20-year-old Daniel Smith`s death. And who is actually making money from newly released pictures?

That`s coming up.

We`ll also have this...


LIONEL RICHIE, MUSICIAN: I mean, look at Princess Diana. "Leave me alone." It only made it -- it only made it worse.


ANDERSON: Lionel Richie sounds off on the paparazzi, their relentless pursuit of his daughter Nicole Richie, and how they both deal with all the attention.

That`s coming up in the interview you will see only right here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.


HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.

I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.

Time now for a little story that made us say...

UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: "That`s ridiculous!"

HAMMER: You`ve got to love a good dumb criminal story, right? Well, in Italy, some guy stole an elderly lady`s purse, and during the robbery he apparently dropped his cell phone.

Well, later, he called his own number because he wanted to get his phone back. He set up a meeting with the person who answered -- yes, you guessed it. His victim had turned the phone into the police and they, of course, were waiting to arrest him.

And that`s why we say, "That`s ridiculous!"

ANDERSON: Some shocking new developments in the tragic death of Anna Nicole Smith`s 20-year-old son, Daniel Wayne Smith. The independent pathologist hired by Anna Nicole say drugs may have killed Daniel, telling, "It could be a drug-related death of an accidental nature." Another source tells TMZ the drugs in question were prescription drugs, including antidepressants.

Twenty-year-old Daniel Smith died September 10th in Anna Nicole`s hospital room in the Bahamas just three days after the birth of his baby sister. Now pictures have surfaced of Daniel in the hospital room with his mother and sister, and somebody might be making a whole lot of money off the photos.

"New York Daily News" columnist Lloyd Grove broke this story and he joins us now from New York tonight.

Lloyd, good to see you.


ANDERSON: Doing great.

Now, apparently, a major tabloid magazine and an entertainment news show paid a lot of money for these pictures. They bought the exclusive rights to show the photos.

Tell us what you know.

GROVE: "In Touch Weekly" paid around $400,000, and the Paramount TV shows "The Insider" and "Entertainment Tonight" paid about a quarter of a million dollars to have exclusive rights to these photos of Daniel with his mother and sister and some other snapshots, family snapshots from the hospital room.

ANDERSON: Yes, that`s a lot of money. And I`ve seen the pictures. And they seem like they captured private moments that weren`t necessarily meant to be made public.

Do you think Anna Nicole has any idea that someone is selling these pictures?

GROVE: Well, she might not, but clearly her representatives are the ones who arranged this -- Howard K. Stern, her attorney, Getty Images, which is the agency that sold the photos. So what Anna knows at this point, I don`t know. She has been in seclusion. She has had a terrible tragedy befall her. And I don`t know what she is conscious of or not at this point.

ANDERSON: Interestingly, Lloyd, Getty Images negotiated the rights for these pictures, reportedly. Getty Images, the agency which also brokered the deal for the Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt baby photos. Millions of dollars went to charity in that situation. Any indication here if the profits from these pictures will benefit charity?

GROVE: It`s all very vague. There was some indication that a memorial fund would be set up, the Daniel Wayne Smith Fund. But what that money is supposed to go to, no one knows yet. No one has said.

We don`t know what kind of commission Getty Images is taking on the sale. You know, it could be as much as 40 percent. So, a lot of money changing hands here, and it does leave a bad taste in people`s mouth.

ANDERSON: Yes, it does. And we called Getty Images, and they weren`t commenting on this.

What do you know about the guy who is claiming to be the father of Anna Nicole`s daughter?

GROVE: Well, all I know is that he is claiming to be the father. Anna Nicole, through TrimSpa, is disputing that claim, saying he is not the father. So, I guess a DNA test might be in order.

ANDERSON: Talking about photo journalist Larry Burkhead (ph). And, you know, it`s just deplorable if someone is profiting off of these really heartbreaking pictures.

Lloyd Grove, thank you so much for joining us tonight. We appreciate it.

GROVE: My pleasure.

ANDERSON: SHOWBIZ TONIGHT did contact "In Touch." They said they do not comment on financial negotiations.

We had not heard back from "Entertainment Tonight" as of show time.

HAMMER: Well, shows like "Laguna Beach" try to expose the shocking reality of teen life, but really nothing could compare to Jeremy Iversen`s experience of posing as a student. At 24, Iversen went undercover as a California high school to expose the unbelievable secret of teens obsessed with sex, drugs and a whole lot more.

Iversen tells all about it in this new book, "High School Confidential: Secrets of an Undercover Student."

Jeremy Iversen, nice to welcome you to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

JEREMY IVERSEN, "HIGH SCHOOL CONFIDENTIAL": Thanks so much for having me, A.J.

HAMMER: Wow! I mean, shocking stuff in here, like teach ares molesting students. You have barely a bit of education actually going on, rampant drug use is happening here.

You know, we see "Mean Girls," movies like that portraying what goes on in high school, or "High School Musical," or -- or shows like "Laguna Beach," but they are a real far cry from reality.

IVERSEN: Absolutely. In fact, we actually say this is the anti- Disney high school musical because there`s such a sanitized picture that everybody in America has about what`s going on in high school, so far from reality it`s unbelievable.

HAMMER: It seems that all of the things that we fear is actually happening is actually happening. You talk about the drugs. You talk about drinking during lunchtime.

I was surprised to see how much steroid use goes on. Something like 30 percent of all the cool kids are using steroids? That`s unbelievable to me.

IVERSEN: That`s what I would say. That`s the kind of thing you would never know unless you actually went back and saw it with your own eyes. I mean, we just don`t talk about this kind of thing.

HAMMER: Arnold Schwarzenegger showed up at the school that you were undercover at?

IVERSEN: He came to the town and he was a huge hero for people. I mean, he, himself, has used steroids. So it`s interesting, what are the role models, that sort of thing.

HAMMER: And, to be clear, Arnold Schwarzenegger has admitted to having used steroids when he was a young weightlifter. But for that aspect of it, it sort of validated the kids who were doing steroids, didn`t it?

IVERSEN: Exactly. It just made it more normal. You know, what`s -- what`s good, what`s bad when your governor is doing something? You know? It`s very hard to say. It`s a blurry line for a lot of kids nowadays.

HAMMER: You know, people are always saying that the images we see coming out of Hollywood have an abundant influence on the youth of America, whether it`s body image issues, whether it`s the amount of drinking that actually goes on.

Did you see that playing out? Did you see how the kids in the school with you were saying, well, you know, Paris Hilton is out there partying all the time and drinking all the time, I can do that, too?

IVERSEN: Certainly. Actually, one of the more funnier stories in the book, there was a lot of sex videotapes that were made. I mean, we think we can thank Paris for some of that stuff.

HAMMER: The high school students themselves...

IVERSEN: Exactly.

HAMMER: ... that you were hanging out with were making sex tapes?

IVERSEN: Exactly. Exactly. There is actually a revenge plot in the girl about how one girl tried to make a videotape of another as sort of an entrapment kind of thing. Then people would just do it for fun. People put them up on the Internet, stuff like that.

Who are their role models for that? Well, I think we know. I think we see it all the time in the media.

HAMMER: So, the Hollywood culture is a very vast influence on what`s going on?

IVERSEN: Absolutely.

HAMMER: Would you say it is the majority of what they are influenced by?

IVERSEN: Well, I think, like, when you look at what goes on in their lives -- you know, you go to school, you`re in class for a few hours, and then you go home and you watch TV for three hours. The average teenager watches TV three hours of TV day.

So, where are their influences coming from? They do 40 minutes of homework, and they do three hours of TV. I think we know which medium is, like, primarily out there.

HAMMER: And the teachers you said not all that concerned with actually teaching the classes.

IVERSEN: Oh, a lot of teachers would just sit on the corner of the desk, talk about their weekend, talk about how much fun they had a club, things like that. You know, chat about their divorce, that sort of thing.

HAMMER: The teachers are talking about going to clubs. That`s terrific.

Well, Jeremy, it`s a fascinating read. And I appreciate you sharing some of it with us here.

IVERSEN: Thank you so much, A.J.

HAMMER: The book is called "High School Confidential: Secrets of an Undercover Student." You`ll find it in bookstores now.

ANDERSON: Christianity is coming into play at baseball games. But is giving away bibles at the ball field a it?

We`re going to look into it coming up.

HAMMER: Plus, the ban on skinny models in Spain. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has reaction from the stars and what eating disorder activists and models have to say about it. That`s coming up as well.

We`ll also have this...


RICHIE: I can always tell when Nicole is coming over to visit at the house. There are seven cars following her, behind her, and a helicopter flying over the top of the house!


ANDERSON: Lionel Richie sounds off on the paparazzi, their relentless pursuit of his daughter, Nicole Richie, and how they both deal with the attention.

That`s coming up in the interview you will see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT


HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.

Well, with the recent one-year anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, the question has come up of whether or not efforts to rebuild New Orleans have faltered. It`s a question I posed to New Orleans` native son, singer Aaron Neville, whose latest album "Bring It On Home" took on a special meaning after the hurricane when he recorded it.


AARON NEVILLE, SINGER: It kind of died down, so, you know, we need to -- you know, I`ve been doing a lot of TV and radio and all, and I`ve been talking about it, trying to keep it in the -- in the public`s mind and eye, you know. Because I just fear out of sight, out of mind.

You know, just stop showing it or talking about it, oh, they are doing all right, you know? But they`ve got a lot of people that`s not doing all right.

HAMMER: The new CD is called "Bring It On Home: The Soul Classics." And I know it has a lot of songs that meant so much to you growing up.


HAMMER: Certainly the title, "Bring it On Home," says an awful lot in light of everything that`s taken place with New Orleans.


HAMMER: And one of the songs you have on there, I think, a song that everybody loves, the Ben E. King classic, "Stand By Me."

NEVILLE: "Stand By Me."

(SINGING): No, I won`t be afraid. No, I won`t be afraid. Just as long, just as long as you stand, stand by me.

HAMMER: It really takes on a whole different meaning now for you, doesn`t it?

NEVILLE: It does. I mean, like, "Stand By Me," when I was doing it for the (INAUDIBLE), was thinking about, you know, America standing by the people from New Orleans.


HAMMER: And you can pick up your copy of Aaron Neville`s new album "Bring It On Home." It is in stores today.

ANDERSON: Christianity is coming into play at baseball games. But is giving away bibles at the ball field a hit?

We`re going to look into it coming up.

We`ll also have this...


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what? My hats are off to Spain and to the people who have set those guidelines.


HAMMER: The ban on skinny models in Spain. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has reaction from the stars and what eating disorder activists and models have to say about it.

That`s coming up.

ANDERSON: And Lionel Richie sounds off on the paparazzi, their relentless pursuit of his daughter, Nicole Richie, and how they both deal with all the attention.

That`s going to come up in the interview you will see right here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

Stay with us.


HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT for Tuesday night. It is 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.

ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood, and you are watching TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.

HAMMER: Now Brooke, most people now that if their kids are coming over for lunch when a phone call is a placed, or perhaps when the daughter pulls in the driveway and honks the - the horn, Dad, I`m here.

Lionel Richie, arguably one of the more famous musicians in the world, knows when his daughter is showing up for lunch because the paparazzi start to swarm around his house. Imagine living that life, being the dad of somebody who is chased down by the paparazzi so constantly. He`s a bit afraid for her, and he`s going to tell us how, coming up in Part 2 of my interview with Lionel on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

ANDERSON: I`m sure it`s very difficult for him as a father. They doggedly pursue her always.

HAMMER: Always.

ANDERSON: Also, A.J. in addition to peanuts and Cracker Jacks, you now get a little John 3:16 at the ballpark. Major League Baseball fans are finding bibles and spiritual testimony and music at the ballgames. Coming up, we`re going to have how sports fans and faith are mixing it up. Pretty interesting.

But first, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has more on the story of Madrid - out of Madrid, Spain, that has flipped the fashion world upside down. That`s where they banned super-skinny models from being in a major runway show because organizers don`t like the message it sends to women. There`s talk now that India, which hosts a lot of fashion shows, loves the idea, too.

We agree; it`s a really great move. So we`ve been asking celebrities about this heated controversy on the catwalk.

Here`s "Will and Grace" star Debra Messing at an interview for her new animated movie, "Open Season.


DEBRA MESSING, ACTRESS: My hats are off to Spain and to the people who have set those guidelines.

I was watching a report on CNN; I think that`s where I picked that up. You might want to watch your own channel.


MESSING: Yes, I am. I actually am a news junkie. And I - I think it`s - I think it`s wonderful. And they actually showed a model in America stepping on the scale, and she was like, Oh, I`m two pounds under. And they`re like, you would be - you would be banned from working in Spain. And of course, she went, Oh, I`d better eat more cake. And I wanted, you know, to kill her.


ANDERSON: Hey Debra, we watched that piece, too. In fact, we had it right here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

So what do you think about it? We`ve been asking you to vote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT "Question of the Day": "Super-Skinny Models: Should they be banned from fashion shows?" So far - take a look at this: 80 percent of you say "yes"; not many of you say "no" - only 20 percent say they shouldn`t.

You can keep voting at And send us an e-mail at

And A.J., this body-image battle has really struck a nerve with our viewers. We`ve been flooded by their e-mails.

HAMMER: Yes. In fact, we`re going to take a look at some of those in just a sec with a very special guest, Brooke.

This whole controversy has also gotten the attention of NEDA - that`s the National Eating Disorders Association. They released a statement, and this is what it says: "Just as we have the wisdom to set restrictions on tobacco and alcohol advertising because of the potential hazards to our children, it`s high time to address the impact of fashion ads on potentially life-threatening eating disorders."

Joining us once again tonight, supermodel Emme, the chair ambassador of NEDA.

It`s always a pleasure to welcome you, Emme.


HAMMER: So, man, this really struck a chord. You know, we - you were last night. The e-mails have been flooding in. People have been voting on that question, as - as we just showed you. And you saw how the results went.

Why does this obsession with weight strike such a nerve with everybody?

EMME: That`s a good question. And I think it`s - it`s on the tip of the tongues of every single person that is writing in for the polls or responding. It`s on a lot of people`s minds right now.

Advertisers are afraid to have diversity in their ads. For what reason, I don`t know, because they fund the magazines. The magazines sometimes have to be pulled back if they have too much diversity, because advertisers say, We`ll pull our advertising.

Then it goes down to designers. I think designers should design for whomever they want to. But pick healthy images. Now if they have their own issues with what fat might be to them, that`s something they have to figure out.


EMME: But I think in our society, the - the drive to be thin, the drive, the - the dying to be thin, it`s almost at any cost. And I think that one of the issues that we have with the young ladies in Spain that are being turned away - we don`t want them to be the fall guy. We want to have thin young ladies; we want to have medium-sized ladies, and maybe with someone with a curve, depending on the show.

But we want healthy images. We want to actually reach out to these young ladies that are being turned away, and not make them be the fall person. Say, How do you feel about this? Do you need any assistance? It should be the agents, the parents, the decision makers, and say, Should we all get together and really have a big powwow? Form a council of sorts, and ask the - the doctors involved, and the - the people who are following and tracking the polling (ph), that we do have a national epidemic.

And as Jessa Cowina (ph) spoke yesterday, she said that there`s a worldwide epidemic. Let`s look into that. Let`s talk about this so that we can actually have a really nice fleshed out - no pun intended here - but a really nice representation of what - what a healthy image is finally.

HAMMER: It would be nice if - if that could happen in a very constructive way. And I.

EMME: It`ll take time.

HAMMER: And I see the fire in your eyes when you`re talking about. And we hear the passion, and we saw it in some of the e-mails we got. It - it brings up so many different issues.

And I want to talk about.

EMME: It`s huge, yes.

HAMMER: I want to talk about a few of them right now.

Let`s put up this first e-mail. It comes from Mimi in Florida, who writes, "For years, fashion designers and stylists have been promoting the idea that only the super skinny are valued as beauties worthy of wearing great clothes. Now, even actresses have been bitted by the anorexic bug. It`s unhealthy, it promotes eating disorders, and it is discriminatory."

As I said, this topic is just driving people nuts.

EMME: It is, and it`s touching a nerve that I think - that has been - it`s almost like a simmering pot: the top is starting to shift over and fall over, so that we can look in and say, What the heck is going on here? Why do we feel so afraid to show who we are? Why is it?

Now I`m not talking about showing obesity on the runway or in the ads. Or I`m not - as well as that we shouldn`t be showing another unhealthy image of anorexia. We need to help both sides of the issue, that we have epidemic proportions in our country. I`m speaking just from where we are at and what I know about.

I think we also need to say, Why are we having such an issue here? Why is it so tough to go deep into this, and ask ourselves? It comes from individuals saying, What am I so concerned about? Why am I afraid of - of - of showing this?

HAMMER: Well, it - it`s funny that you say that. But you - you - you work in the fashion industry, and work for these people, and you know they are concerned and consumed - not all of them - but a lot of them, at just the art and selling, and the commerce.

EMME: Right. And - and.

HAMMER: Right?

EMME: It`s the clothes. It`s - it`s all about the clothes, but at the expense of the young ladies walking down the runway, looking like a - a clothes hanger, as what I`ve been told. Well, they shouldn`t be the scapegoat here.

HAMMER: I agree with you on that.


HAMMER: I agree with you on that, and I think it`s a real double- edged sword that way.

That - let me bring up another topic that - that came in. So many different issues arrived in these e-mails.

Carlene wrote us from California. She said, "For years, the marketing industry has repeatedly said that they`re going to change the way women are depicted. And yet nothing has happened since the anatomically correct Barbie."

Well, Barbie, as we know, not anatomically correct. But - but.

EMME: Exactly. I`m - I`m wondering about that one.

HAMMER: But as - as you were just saying.

EMME: Yes. is a huge sore point for women all across America that the average woman - and - and I know it`s - average - that`s a hard word to throw out.

EMME: Sure.

HAMMER: But - but let`s say, you know, people who are not the super skinny, or not the obese, but sort of your average, proper-weight woman, are not adequately represented in the images we see, and the advertising that we see.

EMME: Absolutely. And if we can try and find wonderful images that are athletic, that eat well, that take care of themselves, and our models to aspire to. Why can`t we show those images?

I mean, one company, Unilever, had - has definitely gone forward in a big, big way to bring in this real-life everyday person.

HAMMER: That was a great move, and a bold move.

EMME: Now that`s one move. That`s one move. But you - you could even take this and have models that are more aspirational (ph) and inspirational to look at and to - to have that inclusiveness. But not to go, Oh, if they`re that thin, Should I feel like that? Well, if we had three different body types, there`s no way we should try and change that. Just make what you have the best that it can be.

HAMMER: Mm-hmm. I`m going to wrap it up there.

EMME: I know.

HAMMER: We`re - we`re out of time. But - but hopefully, people are paying attention. Because you said a lot of things that make so much sense. If they can be put into action, all the more beautiful. And I appreciate you being with us.

EMME: if you have any questions about what we`re talking about tonight.

HAMMER: Lot of information there. Thanks so much.

EMME: Thanks, A.J.

ANDERSON: Well, actress Scarlett Johansson is just fine with the way she looks. Sultry Scarlett, who is currently starring in "The Black Dahlia," is known for her curves. And the media hasn`t been shy about pointing out that she`s not as skinny as some of the other big stars in Hollywood.

But Scarlett shrugs that off, telling "InStyle" magazine: "I`m curvy. I`m never going to be 5`11" and 120 pounds. But I feel lucky to have what I`ve got."

Scarlett just signed a deal with Reebok to launch a clothing line she says will fit regular people. Read more in the October issues of "InStyle."

HAMMER: Well, temperatures really rose at a global-warming conference. That`s because people started to take their clothes off. "That`s Ridiculous!" and that`s next.

ANDERSON: Also, Bibles and baseball? Coming up, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT takes a look at the controversial new trend at the ballpark. Will this religion gamble turn out to be a home run? That`s next.

Plus, we`ve also got this:


LIONEL RICHIE, SINGER: I can always tell when Nicole is coming over to visit at the house now, because seven cars following her - behind her, and a helicopter flying over the top of the house.

HAMMER: Does that.


HAMMER: Coming up, music superstar Lionel Richie fears for his daughter Nicole`s safety. He`ll tell us about that and why he thinks all this obsession with celebrities` private lives could become deadly. It`s the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.


ANDERSON: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.

It`s time now for another story that made us say, "That`s Ridiculous!"

Well, things got really hot at a global-warming conference in Australia, but it had nothing to do with holes in the ozone layer or melting glaciers. You see, a bunch of people were upset when a show at the conference, which was supposed to be a few minutes of chill-out time from all the heavy duty science talk, turned out to be a striptease. Yep, a striptease. We`re talking corsets, fishnets and plenty of balloons to pop, as you see here. Some delegates walked out, and organizers apologized.

Maybe people did get a bit too hot under the collar. But a striptease at a global-warming convention? Now "That`s Ridiculous!"

HAMMER: Tonight, Lionel Richie fears for his daughter`s safety. You`ve seen Nicole Richie splashed all over the tabloids. "The Simple Life" has really been put under a media microscope over the past several years about her dating life, talk about her being too skinny, so many other things.

Well now, Lionel has just released this CD, called "Coming Home," which celebrates his relationship with his family.

He stopped by and he really opened up about the nonstop targeting of his 24-year-old daughter. And he told us something shocking: he thinks, truly, all this obsession with celebrities is going to get someone killed.


RICHIE: This is a new press now. (INAUDIBLE)


HAMMER: It`s a little bit different from when you were.

RICHIE: It`s a new press.

HAMMER.coming up.

RICHIE: We`re into - in fact, it`s been in Europe and England forever. Investigative reporting used to be a part of England, 10, 15 years ago. We just got to the point now where investigative-tabloid reporting now.

What`s the truth? I don`t know. The - if you look at it from the tabloids, over in - in Britain, they`ll make up half the stuff. And that`s where we are now in America. Cause she`ll call me on the phone (INAUDIBLE), Dad, this is not true. And even I`ll say that`s not true. And she`ll go - she goes, How do I deal with it? I said, Tomorrow they`ll be another story.

HAMMER: Do you - do you get it, while this publicity is out there, when you talk about the tabloids and the way things are done now, versus how they were then? Or do you kind of look at it and say, This is just ridiculous?

RICHIE: It is ridiculous.

There`s an invasion of privacy that I think - we`re so obsessed now with celebrity, that we have to realize that we have a private life. Now we`ve gotten to the point now, There`s the backyard shot. There`s you in your.

HAMMER: Does that ever happen to you?

RICHIE: Never. That`s what I`m saying to you, it`s so crazy now. I look at Nicole - I can always tell when Nicole is coming over to visit at the house now, because seven cars following her - behind her, and a helicopter flying over the top of the house.

HAMMER: Does that stuff scare you though?

RICHIE: Well, you think it`s scaring her - me, it`s freaking her out completely. Because can you imagine having no privacy? I mean, these - this is your day off. At least with the Commodores, you know, I had a chance to be off for five days before we went back on the tour. So you could actually go home and drive around in your car.

Yes, if the ladies saw you go in the drug store, that`s great. But not.

HAMMER: But you never feared for your own safety?

RICHIE: Never.

HAMMER: And from the paparazzi, anyway.

RICHIE: Or - or for your life. You never know who these people are.

And, you know, some people you get used to as time goes on. OK, that`s Bill (ph) or Phil (ph). But not everyday, parked out in front of your house.

HAMMER: So Lionel, this isn`t going to go away anytime soon.


HAMMER: So now, like, how, as - as a dad, what - I mean, what - what can you say, or what - it`s - it`s - it`s dumbfounding to me.

RICHIE: No. I`ll tell you.

HAMMER: I can`t imagine what you have to go through watching what goes on with her.

RICHIE: It`s the deal with the devil. This is where we are today. You can make the announcement right now, Leave me alone. I mean, look at Princess Diana. Leave me alone - it only made it worse.

And so, you know - unfortunately - unfortunately, someone`s going to get hurt before they pass a law that - because it`s at least an invasion of privacy, or you have to be at least across the street. You have to be at least arm`s - it`s got to be. Because someone`s going to get hurt. You can see it. It`s in the making.

Because I have seen people step out in the - to the road, where they`re blocking traffic, trying to get that one shot of a celebrity. And someone`s going to get killed. I - I - I don`t wish it on anyone.

HAMMER: No, we hear - we hear that a lot. And I.

RICHIE: But I`m just - I.

HAMMER: Hope it doesn`t come to that.


RICHIE: But I mean, I just tell Nicole, be very careful, you know? And - and this will eventually fade as time goes on.

This is an amazing word that happens around 35 to 40. You go from cute to "oh, you`re beautiful" to distinguished or.

HAMMER: Something else (INAUDIBLE).

RICHIE: Yes. If you could just survive this, this is a - it`s an interesting business because we love - I know the actor friends that I have, they love acting. What they didn`t bargain for was the press in Malibu chasing them down the street.

HAMMER: And it`s that vicious cycle: you need the press to maintain your popularity.

RICHIE: And here we are.

HAMMER: And it becomes too much; you want it to go away.

RICHIE: There we are.

You know, I want to be famous, I want to be famous, look at me, look at me. Oh my God, don`t look at me. Don`t look at me right now.


RICHIE: Wrong answer. It happens everyday.

But, you know, there`s a - there`s got to be a happy medium somewhere. But they`ve made these photographs so valuable that of course the price - or we call it the bounty over your head now - is amazing. And that`s what it really is. It`s a little -- Can you get that picture of that baby? Whoever gets that picture of that baby, they`ll go to any lengths. A million dollars? A million and a half dollar bounty? Are you kidding me?

HAMMER: And again, just watching someone so dear to you go through it.

RICHIE: I know, it.

HAMMER: .has to be just impossible.

RICHIE: And all I can say to her is, Be careful.


HAMMER: He`s a good guy. I appreciate him being so candid with us.

Nicole appears in Lionel`s music video "I Call It Love." The song is off his new album, "Coming Home." It`s in stores now.

ANDERSON: Well, all the talk and controversy over Madonna` concert tour doesn`t seem to bother NBC. There`s one scene during her show where Madonna`s wearing a crown of thorns and is suspended on a cross, singing "Live to Tell." Some religious groups have been upset by the mock crucifixion.

But Madonna`s publicist tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is going to keep it in there when the Peacock runs "Madonna: The Confessions Tour Live" in November. That`s a two-hour special of the tour, taped this summer at London`s Wembley stadium.

Well, there`s been a growing interest in religious-themed entertainment ever since Mel Gibson`s "The Passion of the Christ" took in more than a half a billion dollars worldwide. Think about "Chronicles of Narnia" or even "The Da Vinci Code."

Now, 20th Century FOX is starting up a new division called "FOX Faith." It`ll make up to 12 movies a year aimed at religious audience.

CNN`s faith-and-values correspondent Delia Gallagher is here for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with more.

Now, Delia, you have the pulse on religion in America. Is this a good move by 20th Century FOX?

DELIA GALLGHER, CNN FAITH-AND-VALUES CORRESPONDENT: Well, of course. I mean, I think certainly the Christian audience is a great market; you only have to look at "The Passion of the Christ" to know that.

But in keep in mind one thing: "The Passion of the Christ" was such a success not just because it was a religion - a Christian theme, but because Mel Gibson has a lot of credibility with the Christian audience. And so I think that anybody who`s going to go into that venture has to keep in mind that they have to have representatives with good Christian credentials in order for the Christian community to buy it.

ANDERSON: Really good point.

And - and now, Delia, some groups want to bring religion to one of America`s pastimes, too, right?

GALLAGHER: Well, that`s right. But, you know - I don`t know if you know this, but two different popes have visited Yankee Stadium here in New York, and are actually immortalized in a plaque there.

But take a look at a different trend that has Christians saying, "Take me out to the ballgame."


GALLAGHER (voice-over): John Smoltz has helped win a World Series and earned a Cy Young Award in 18 years playing baseball for the Atlanta Braves.

But on this day, he`s pitching for another team -- one with a much more powerful lineup.

JOHN SMOLTZ, ATLANTA BRAVES PITCHER: Only God can change and - and - and rip you of some of the things you`re holding on to, and he did that for me in baseball.

GALLAGHER: Welcome to Faith Night, a new phenomenon bringing Christianity to the ballpark.

SMOLTZ: Don`t take my words for the gospel or what it should be. Take it as something to prompt you to - to - to think deeper.

GALLAGHER: Free Bibles, Christian bands, biblical bobbleheads and player testimonials are all provided to fans by the marketing company Third Coast Sports, which so far has been in 27 minor league ballparks across the country.

BRENT HIGH, PRESIDENT, THIRD COAST SPORTS: Teams market to demographics and cycographics (ph) every day of the week. And this is just, in business terms, another demographic.

GALLAGHER: And now, they`ve hit the Major Leagues.

DEREK SCHILLER, BRAVES VP, SALES AND MARKETING: I`ve been told that there are some 5,400 churches within a 75-mile radius. So that, obviously, makes a lot of sense for the Atlanta Braves.

GALLAGHER: Derek Shiller estimates a 10 percent increase over average attendance on the Braves three faith nights this year -- the first Major League team to stage such an event. The Arizona Diamondbacks also have done it, and the Florida Marlins plan to next year.

HIGH: We are very close to having deals with teams in the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, and obviously we`re already in Major League Baseball. I don`t see this slowing down.

GALLAGHER: Still, not everyone is a fan.

THE REV. MARK, ST. BARTHOLOMEW`S CHURCH: I am against any kind of fellowship that then becomes exclusive, a kind of fellowship where a Jewish person won`t feel welcome, a Muslim person, or somebody who doesn`t believe in God.

GALLAGHER: Third Coast Sports says Faith Nights are not hostile to nonbelievers, and no one is forced to participate.

HIGH: We will never throw a Bible in your face as you come in the turnstile.

BOZZUTI-JONES: I`m a Christian, and I`m very much for, you know, promoting Christianity. But the time and the place have to be right. It shouldn`t be a marketing tool. Definitely shouldn`t be a marketing tool.

GALLAGHER: But some fans don`t mind baseball being used to market religion.

RODNEY JOHNSON, MOBILE BAY BEARS FAN: We can display our faith at the ballgame and, you know, maybe people from being around us will be able to attend the events and find a church that, you know, maybe they`ve been looking for.


GALLAGHER: Now Brooke, if you want proof that faith nights are taking off, consider this: they did one on Palm Sunday in Las Vegas. So if it work in Sin City, I think it`ll work anywhere.

ANDERSON: It might - it just might work, Delia. Thanks so much. Delia Gallagher, CNN`s faith-and-values correspondent, for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

And SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is coming right back. Hang tight.


ANDERSON: We`ve been asking you to vote on tonight`s SHOWBIZ TONIGHT "Question of the Day." Madrid, Spain, kicking too-thin models off the catwalk. "Super-Skinny Models: Should they be banned from fashion shows?" Keep on voting, Write to us: We`re going to read some of your thoughts tomorrow.

HAMMER: Let`s see what`s coming up tomorrow on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Here`s your "SHOWBIZ Marquee."

Tomorrow, the amazing story of how a troubled child`s relation to a huge star is making a big difference. This kid was kicked out of school, jailed, even threatened his brother with a knife. Now, Isaiah Washington of "Grey`s Anatomy" is setting it straight tomorrow.

Also tomorrow, the incredible shrinking movie critic. Jamie Bernard wanted to lose 100 pounds. Did she do it? She`s not stranger to battles; she actually beat breast cancer, too. Her battle is amazing, her story is as well. We`ll get into it tomorrow on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.

That is it for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.

ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood.

Glenn Beck is coming up next, right after the latest headlines from CNN Headline News. Keep it right here.