Return to Transcripts main page
Showbiz Tonight
O.J. Released on Bail; Britney Forced to Undergo Drug Tests
Aired September 19, 2007 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
A.J. HAMMER, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT ANCHOR: A couple of people who really know O.J. Simpson open up about his stunning armed robbery arrest. Former house guest Kato Kaelin and O.J.`s old pal, Donald Trump. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
BROOKE ANDERSON, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT ANCHOR: And Brad Pitt reveals whether he and Angelina Jolie will have more children. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts right now.
HAMMER: On SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, O.J.`s court showdown. Tonight SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is right there as O.J. Simpson faces the dreaded music after his shocking armed robbery arrest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Simpson, do you understand the charges against you?
O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER NFL STAR: Yes, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP
HAMMER: Tonight, why what happened to O.J. in Vegas is not staying in Vegas. Plus, a SHOWBIZ special report, is O.J. really the most hated man in America? Tonight, why so many people just love to hate O.J.
A Britney Spears custody battle shocker. Tonight, why is a judge ordering Britney to get tested for drugs? And you won`t believe what else he is forcing her to do. So how does Britney react? Yes, she goes partying. Yes, I said partying. Are you kidding me? Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with the latest Britney bombshell that could cost her her kids.
Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer, broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.
ANDERSON: Hi there, everyone. I`m Brooke Anderson, coming to you tonight from Hollywood, where tonight I can tell you there is absolute shock over what a judge has ordered in the really nasty custody battle between Britney Spears and Kevin Federline. We`ve got that coming up in just a few minutes.
HAMMER: But first, the frenzy over O.J. Tonight, O.J. Simpson is out of jail. He is definitely not out of trouble. O.J. Simpson made bail today as he faces trial on charges that could put him in prison for the rest of his life. Something which, quite frankly, would make an awful lot of people very happy. Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with the latest developments.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J. Simpson released from jail here in Las Vegas.
HAMMER (voice-over): O.J. Simpson`s car ride out of jail wasn`t quite as memorable as that infamous slow-speed Bronco chase the day of his 1994 double murder arrest. The TV news channels were all over it anyway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is being driven, we understand, by his attorney.
HAMMER: O.J. Simpson left a Las Vegas jail about four hours after a televised court hearing where a judge agreed to let him post bail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bail is set in this case at 125,000 dollars.
HAMMER: But as he left the jail, listen to the heckling he takes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Nicole! Justice for Ron!
HAMMER: O.J. may have gotten lucky in court, but SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you he is in a world of trouble. Ten of the 11 charges he faces are felonies.
JOE BONAVENTURE, LAS VEGAS JUDGE: Burglary while in possession of deadly weapon, a felony offense. Two counts of first degree kidnapping with use of a deadly weapon, both felony offenses.
HAMMER: One of the charges, first degree kidnapping using a deadly weapon, could put him away in prison for the rest of his life if he`s convicted. But despite that legal pressure, O.J.`s attorney says no one has to worry about O.J. jumping bail.
YALE GALANTER, O.J.`S ATTORNEY: Despite his past and public opinion about his past, he is not a flight risk, and he is not a danger to the community.
HAMMER: Just in case, though, the judge ordered Simpson separated from his passport, and O.J. can`t have any contact with anyone else involved in the case. But SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you the list of those involved in the case is growing by the minute. Las Vegas police have released photos from a palace station hotel surveillance cam of two more men they say helped O.J. in his alleged armed robbery. A fourth suspect, Michael McClinton (ph), has been arrested in the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to show you the items at the center of the case.
HAMMER: We`re finally getting a good look at the items that led O.J. to risk life in prison. NBC`s "Today Show" showed pictures of the sports memorabilia O.J. and his alleged crew are accused of bursting into a hotel room to take. The confrontation was caught on this explosive tape, obtained by TMZ.com.
(INAUDIBLE)
HAMMER: Now SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you one of the two men allegedly robbed in that tape is making a shocking claim.
ALFRED BEARDSLEY, SPORTS MEMORABILIA COLLECTOR: I do not believe that these tapes are accurate.
HAMMER: Sports memorabilia collector Alfred Beardsley suggested on the "Today Show" that the tapes may have been altered and need to be professionally analyzed.
BEARDSLEY: There`s information missing off of these tapes. I have concerns about these tape tapes, whether they`re doctored, whether they were edited, looped.
HAMMER: Those tapes were recorded by this man, Thomas Riccio, who told CNN`s Larry King his version of the story. He says he arranged the meeting between O.J. and the memorabilia collectors.
THOMAS RICCIO, RECORDED O.J.`S ALLEGED ROBBERY: I called O.J. Simpson, told him that they have his stolen stuff. He said, I`ve been looking for that stuff for ten years, I want it back. And I made a deal with him.
HAMMER: But Riccio swears he had no idea O.J. was going to confront the collectors in such a heavy-handed way.
RICCIO: I thought he would go there, and I thought he would identify his stuff. That`s what he said he would do. And then he would give them the option of turning the stuff over or calling the police. And in fact, it looked like they were going to turn the stuff over willingly, and they were doing that when the guns -- gun came out that I saw.
HAMMER: But now SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you, questions are also swirling around Riccio. Turns out he`s had some issues with the law himself.
WILLIAM BASTONE, THESMOKINGGUN.COM: He has two convictions for receiving stolen property. So it`s kind of ironic that he`s in the middle of a case that involves stolen property.
HAMMER: So in this O.J. story, you have a treasure trove of valuable loot, a rogue gallery of questionable players, a divisive former double murder suspect many want to see in prison, and one wild Vegas caper that could take countless months and court hearings to completely sort out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: And this whole case has gotten even more strange. Alfred Beardsley, one of those two collectors that`s accusing O.J. of the break- in, got arrested himself in Vegas today. Authorities say he was wanted on a California warrant for a parole violation. The other alleged robbery victim, Bruce Fromong, suffered a major heart attack on Monday. He is in fair condition. So tonight O.J. Simpson is free on bail. But the question on everybody`s mind, I think, is will the Juice ultimately be locked up?
Joining me tonight in New York, attorney Bruce Baron. Also in New York, author and TV commentator Kelly Goff. Kelly, Bruce, I appreciate you both being here. Bruce, let me start with you. O.J. is certainly free but he is far from being out of trouble by a long shot. It seems really to me at the heart of this case is that audiotape of what went on in that hotel room.
Bruce, how crucial is that audiotape going to be?
BRUCE BARON, ATTORNEY: Well, you know, A.J., the tape is obviously a devastating piece of evidence. But before we listen to that tape and actually judge him in light of the acts, or alleged criminal acts, you have to take a step back. That tape has to be authenticated. We have to make certain it wasn`t altered, it wasn`t edited. You know, it`s very important, because ultimately, these cast of characters that you reported on are going to be co-defendants, and certainly they will be ripped apart on cross-examination.
HAMMER: I think a lot of people are judging O.J., or prejudging O.J. for a lot of reasons. His mug shot among them. Charles, can we throw up the picture, please? Because if you look at that smirk, man, you just kind of want to wipe it off his face. I think that got under a lot of people`s skins. Now, let`s take a look, if we can, Charles, at O.J. in court today, where we see the fact that -- can we see that? He`s not smiling.
Kelly, do you think it was finally hitting him that he`s in deep doo- doo here?
KELLY GOFF, TV COMMENTATOR: He had some somber days during his criminal trial as well, if you remember. But you know, I quite frankly don`t know if anything will ever hit O.J. Simpson. I mean, why should it? After all, he`s beaten the system twice before, once at least for murder. And if you`ve beaten the system for murder, then why would you be particularly concerned about robbery?
I mean, quite frankly, I think that what gets under people`s skin, like you said, is this arrogance and smugness about him and just because it`s not showing up on his face today doesn`t mean it`s not there.
BARON: Kelly, I agree O.J. certainly has a sense of arrogance, but this particular trial, or case, is a lot different than 13 years ago. First of all, today we have a number of co-defendants and a number of witnesses in that room, whereas, unfortunately, 13 years ago we didn`t. And let`s not mistake --
GOFF: A lot more people think that he`s guilty, according to studies.
BARON: Oh, there`s no doubt about it.
GOFF: So I think that that`s also a very big difference he`s got to be concerned about because, as we`ve discussed before, you know, people are making judgments on character. At the end of the day, during criminal trials evidence certainly plays a part, but so does how people feel about an individual.
(CROSS TALK)
GOFF: What bothers people about O.J. is he`s been running around for the last 13 years acting like he still thinks it`s 1986 and he`s waiting his agent to book him for the next Naked Gun film.
HAMMER: And all of this is exactly what we`re going to be dealing with coming up at the bottom of the hour in our SHOWBIZ special report, why O.J. is the most hated man in America. Right now I want to deal more with the issue of what`s going on today, because we just saw in our story one of the memorabilia collectors, a guy named Alfred Beardsley, talk about the tapes of the robbery that we`re speaking of. I want you guys to listen to what he said on "The Today Show" about reports that there were guns pulled.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEARDSLEY: I saw one gun, and I know after speaking to my friend and partner, Bruce Fromong, he said, wait a minute, there were two guns, because they had Bruce at gunpoint with a gun stuck in his face.
MATT LAUER, "THE TODAY SHOW": So you`re looking at O.J. Simpson. At any time did you see Mr. Simpson holding a weapon?
BEARDSLEY: At no time did Mr. Simpson hold any kind of firearm at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: At no time did Mr. Simpson hold any firearm at all. Bruce, possibly one little piece of good news for O.J., that somebody who was right there would, if it comes to it, be willing to perhaps testify that he wasn`t holding a gun?
BARON: You know, O.J., I`d like to believe so. But unfortunately, it`s not the case. You know, when you`re involved in the commission of a crime like a burglary or a robbery, you don`t have to be holding the gun, but you can be assenting to someone else holding the gun. Let`s not forget, if there were guns drawn, we don`t hear O.J. saying, hey, what are you doing? Put that away.
To the contrary you hear get up against the wall and nobody`s leaving. So if in fact there were guns drawn, he`s certainly taking solace in that effect. But what`s more important that we have to understand is this; O.J. has a real dilemma, because if O.J. decides to take a stand -- and as we all know, in a criminal case, you don`t have to take the stand and the jury can`t infer guilt against you. But realize one thing, if he takes that stand, prior bad acts can be brought up by this prosecutor, and then we`ll be retrying the whole double murder case from 13 years ago. And that`s a real problem for O.J.
HAMMER: Yes, no kidding. It will rear its ugly head. We`ve got to wrap it up there, guys. Kelli Goff, Bruce Baron, I do appreciate you being with us tonight.
So, as I was saying, with so many people fired up about O.J., here`s a question definitely worth pondering. Is O.J. truly the most hated man in America? He`s not one of my favorite guys. So tonight, a really fired up SHOWBIZ special report; why do so many people just love to hate O.J.? We`ll do that at 30 past the hour.
ANDERSON: A.J., I know a lot of people are really unhappy with Britney Spears. Now a judge throwing the book at her. He`s making her get tested for drugs. What does this all mean for her custody battle? I`ve got that coming up.
HAMMER: That is unbelievable, Brooke. Parents, however, that aren`t being tested for drugs or pantyless partying, so far as we know, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. They are great parents. Tonight Brad is opening up about all of those rumors that he and Angie are having more kids. That`s coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
OPRAH WINFREY, TV TALK SHOW HOST: What do you think is going on with Britney?
JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE, SINGER: I don`t know, to be honest with you. I haven`t spoken to her in years.
WINFREY: Really?
TIMBERLAKE: yes. I mean, it`s -- there`s no ill will or no -- I have nothing but love for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That was Britney Spears` long time ago ex-boyfriend Justin Timberlake opening up about her on Oprah today. Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show. I`m Brooke Anderson. Tonight, a Britney Spears custody shocker. You`re just not going to believe what came out of the latest Britney-Kevin Federline custody hearing.
All right, here are the headlines. Britney was ordered to get drug testing twice a week. Britney was also ordered to attend mandatory parenting counseling by herself and she also has to go to counseling with K-Fed. Both of them were also barred -- and this may sound a little strange -- from using corporal punishment. With me tonight in Hollywood, Ken Sealey, interventionist from A&E`s show "Intervention." And in New York Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom.
Ken, Lisa, here`s what a lot of people are having trouble understanding, myself included; the judge ordered her to undergo random drug testing twice a week and said in his ruling, quote, there is a habitual, frequent, and continuous use of controlled substances and alcohol by Spears. On the other hand, though, the judge not taking away custody of the kids.
Given this and previous allegations that she`s not caring for the kids, Lisa, I don`t get it. Explain it to me.
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: Well, Kevin Federline didn`t ask for full custody. He asked for 70-30 split, so instead of 50-50 he`d have a little bit more time with them. It doesn`t appear as though he wants full custody. And by the way, is he working? No. She pays him child support. When he gets more time with the children, she`s going to have to pay him more money. So he may have a financial motive in all of this.
ANDERSON: But why would a judge not immediately take away custody, at least temporarily, if there is known to be a habitual, frequent, and continuous use of controlled substances?
BLOOM: Because there may not be any harm to the children. They may be in the control of the nannies at the time that she`s doing drugs. It may be a combination of legal drugs like anti-depressants, alcohol, which is legal, and maybe illegal drugs. We don`t know. Just because they`re controlled substances doesn`t mean that they`re illegal substances. So look, the judge wants to keep these little children with their mother at least 50-50, as it is now, and he`s trying to save Britney.
He`s saying, Britney, I`m going to give you one more chance, don`t blow, it girl.
ANDERSON: Judge having a little bit of mercy on Britney. You know what, Britney, though, doesn`t seem too worried about all of this. Get a load of this video from TMZ.com. She was out partying, going to nightclubs after the judge really let her have it. Ken, does this just prove to you that Britney doesn`t get it?
KEN SEALEY, "INTERVENTION": Yes, Brooke. Britney is not ready to get sober or to get the help that she needs. She hasn`t hit a bottom. We have to step in and help her hit that bottom as a family unit. She needs to get her family on board and really doing what`s right. And the judge is doing what`s necessary. I mean, making her accountable. That`s what`s going to help save her life. You know, let`s do it for a long-term period of time and make her accountable. And that`s what we could do to help save Britney`s life.
So he is on the right track. He`s just not -- it`s a whole recipe that you have to pull together to make it work. And so right know this is the first step. I`m encouraging the judge to keep doing what he`s doing.
ANDERSON: Right. A positive first step. And let`s take a look at something else the judge said. "Each party is restrained from making derogatory remarks about the other party and the other party`s family or significant other." Something else that the judge said that really stunned people is that neither parent can use corporal punishment on the kids, and that they have to go to co-parenting counseling, which I didn`t think that was so strange.
But Lisa, is it unusual that a judge would have to order them not to use corporal punishment?
BLOOM: Frankly, I`ve never heard that before, and I applaud it because I don`t like corporal punishment. But there must be some allegations behind closed doors that one or the other is hitting the kids. I don`t know if it`s spanking or some other kind of physical punishment. The judge is saying knock it off. I applaud that. I think that should apply to all children.
ANDERSON: Yes, the judge obviously doesn`t trust that it`s used at the appropriate times or in the appropriate manner. Ken, on top of that, the judge says that neither Kevin nor Britney can drink alcohol or use any drug during or for the 12 hours before they watch the kids. Ken, 12 hours? How about not at all?
SEALEY: You know, that`s really what should happen here, Brooke. But again, the judge is doing what`s necessary. And if they do test positive before, then the judge will be able to do what`s necessary to continue going down that road of taking away the kids if --
BLOOM: But wait a second, parents are allowed to drink alcohol. I have a glass of wine at night. I have children.
ANDERSON: But don`t have a problem with it, Lisa. I think there`s no comparison.
BLOOM: Maybe they can -- no, I`m not, but I don`t know if the kids are with K-Fed while she`s doing that. So we have to be careful. They are clearly in the custody of somebody. Maybe they`re with the nannies. She`s a rock and roll princess. All right, you can`t bar her from going to clubs. This is what she does for a living. This is how she supports herself, the kids and K-Fed.
ANDERSON: The bottom line, her life is in complete chaos and hopefully this is a first step in helping her turn it around. We do have to end it there. Ken Sealey, Lisa Bloom, thank you for your insight tonight.
SEALEY: Thanks, Brooke.
ANDERSON: Now we want to hear from you. It is our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day. Britney spears` drug ruling; should her kids be taken away in vote. Vote at CNN.com/SHOWBIZTONIGHT. Send us an email, CNN.com/SHOWBIZTONIGHT.
HAMMER: I`ve got to say those pictures of O.J. being taken away in handcuffs were on TV screens this week, it really felt like 1995 all over again, when O.J. was, of course, found not guilty of murder, which is probably the main reason he is the most hated man in America. You can count me among the many O.J. non-fans. Coming up, a fired up SHOWBIZ special report at 30 minutes past the hour.
Also this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, "THE APPRENTICE": Who would have expected that his life would have turned out the way it turned out? It`s terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Donald Trump used to hang out with O.J. Does he think O.J. is the most hated person in America? I go one on one with the Donald. You won`t believe what else he has to say. That is coming up.
ANDERSON: Something a lot more cheery, A.J. Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, super parents. They are everywhere. Juggling their careers, their children. And now are they about to have more kids? SHOWBIZ TONIGHT takes you right to the premiere of Brad`s new film, and we get him to tell us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. And we were right there in New York City as Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt were in town for the premiere of Brad`s hot new film. It`s called "The Assassination of Jessie James by the Coward Robert Ford." CNN "American Morning" entertainment correspondent Lola Oganake caught up with Brad right there on the red carpet and she got him to dish on the rumors that he and Angelina want more kids. Lola also asked if the non-stop pressure by the paparazzi was, like, well, being stalked like the legendary western outlaw he plays in the film, Jesse James.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOLA OGANAKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just like Jesse James, you`re hunted by the paparazzi. People are after you.
BRAD PITT, ACTOR: No one`s pointing guns at me that I can see. So I feel all right.
OGANAKE: It`s not going to happen. Instead they`re cameras. How do you feel about that?
PITT: Well, it`s nothing I signed up for, but it`s part of -- it comes with the territory. And if you want to make films, you know, you`ve got to participate.
OGANAKE: Now, talk of babies. We hear that there may be another on the way.
PITT: Oh, yes. Nothing specific. I think people are jumping the gun a bit. But we`re certainly not finished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: There is no word yet on whether they`re thinking of adopting or doing it the old-fashioned way. Brad and Angelina, as popular as they come. Of course, you don`t really hear too many people saying bad things about those guys. Then there`s O.J. Simpson, on the other end of that spectrum, quite possibly the most hated guy in America. Something I can certainly understand as to why that is. Coming up, I`ve got a fired up SHOWBIZ special report about his shocking armed robbery arrest. Why we love to hate O.J. coming up next.
ANDERSON: A.J., we are asking two people who know O.J. really well that very same question. I`ve got Kato Kaelin. This guy, remember him? He was O.J.`s house guest, the guy with the long hair, who testified at his murder trial. Does he think O.J. is guilty this time around? That`s coming up. Also this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I`m not overly surprised to see it. I mean, he`s really blown it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Donald Trump also used to hang out with O.J. He`s got some controversial stuff to say about all this. Does he think O.J. is going to go free this time? You won`t want to miss what Donald told me coming up on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
(NEWS BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: On SHOWBIZ TONIGHT Donald Trump sounds off about his old buddy O.J. Simpson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP: Who would have expected that his life would have turned out the way it turned out? It`s terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: And that`s not all Trump told me. Wait until you hear what he said when I asked him if he thought O.J. was the most hated man in America. So what is it with this O.J. guy? Why are we so obsessed with Simpson? Tonight a SHOWBIZ special report: "Loving to Hate O.J."
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT for Wednesday night. It is 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer, broadcasting tonight, and every night, from New York City.
ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson. Coming to you tonight from Hollywood. This is TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.
All right. Let`s get you up to date with the latest developments in the O.J. Simpson case. This afternoon Simpson left the Clark County detention center in Las Vegas after paying a $125,000 bail. A judge set bail at a hearing earlier in the day. He also ordered that Simpson turn over his passport to his attorneys and have no contact with any of the victims, co-defendants, or potential witnesses in his alleged robbery case.
Simpson faces 11 charges from the incident, 10 of them felonies, including robbery with a deadly weapon, and kidnapping, which could get him a life sentence if he`s convicted. Simpson`s arraignment is set for late October.
HAMMER: And that brings us to our SHOWBIZ special report: Why do we love to hate O.J. Simpson? Our fired-up panel is ready to go. Here with us tonight in New York, author and commentator Keli Goff; also in New York, psychology expert Cooper Lawrence; and in Atlanta with us tonight CNN Contributor Roland Martin.
Gang, I appreciate you being with us tonight. Before we get it fired up, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Nicole! Justice for Ron! Justice for Nicole! Justice for Ron!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Those were voices heard loud and clear after O.J. posted bail and got into a car.
Roland, we know that so many people are obviously still bent out of shape that O.J. Simpson beat the rap in the murders of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman all those years ago. Does that really cut to the core of why so many people love to hate him, or is there something else going on here?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No, I think that speaks to in terms of people felt that he got off, that he got away with murder. But the reality is there are lots of people in this country who have gotten away with murder. The difference is you had celebrity, you had Hollywood, he was an athlete. You had the whole issue of black-white, interracial marriage. You had the fact of cheating, you had allegations of drugs.
I mean, O.J. Simpson, frankly, was a real-life drama king. Forget J.R. Ewing in "Dallas." He sort of took that role, the person everybody loves to hate. But this is real life as opposed to Hollywood.
HAMMER: Keli, what do you think of that? Sort of the perfect storm for him to be the ultimate magnet for hatred.
KELI GOFF, AUTHOR, COMMENTATOR: I think it`s certainly part of it. Whether or not he`s the most hated man in America, I mean, he`s no Osama bin Laden per se. But I would say that, you know, while most Americans may not go to sleep at night worrying about whether or not O.J.`s going to kill them a lot of them probably do hate him and with good reason.
Part of it is what Roland just said, but another part of it is that if he wanted to disappear into obscurity, if he really wanted to make an effort to do that, that`s something he could at least pretend he`s trying to do. He could relocate his family, for instance. But he hasn`t done that. Instead he`s been running around flaunting his freedom, flaunting the fact he`s enjoying a life most of us can`t afford, you know, pursuing the quote/unquote "real murderers" on every luxury golf course across America.
MARTIN: Whoa!
GOFF: And I think people have a problem with that.
MARTIN: Wait a minute.
GOFF: It`s that level of arrogance that I think doesn`t sit well with most people.
MARTIN: Wait a minute. Here`s a problem here. You say he`s flaunting his freedom. Whether we disagree with the verdict, he was found not guilty.
GOFF: Right. And you --
MARTIN: How do you flaunt your freedom?
GOFF: He was also -- they were awarded a civil judgment.
MARTIN: Yeah, but come on, Keli.
GOFF: How he can afford to go to all these fancy houses, afford to go to all these fancy golf clubs.
MARTIN: Keli.
GOFF: I don`t know about you, Roland, but I can`t afford a membership to a fancy golf club. Perhaps I should get sued by somebody for $30 million and then maybe I`ll be able to afford to travel to Vegas with my buddies and live it up.
MARTIN: There are lots of people out there, frankly, who have been sued in civil court who are still living the good life. Look, O.J. did these things before he was even on trial.
GOFF: Are they celebrities?
MARTIN: No, no, of course --
GOFF: This is what I`m saying.
MARTIN: But he did it before he was on trial.
GOFF: He`s made a choice to continue being one of the most hated men in America with his behavior. If O.J. Simpson really wanted to make an effort to change his image, then he wouldn`t have been in the situation in the first place.
MARTIN: I agree.
HAMMER: Let`s take a look now if that image has even changed in the course of all the years that have gone by. It`s really interesting how this CNN poll that was taken plays right into it. Let me get to this poll, read to you from the results here. The question was asked, do you personally believe the charges that O.J. Simpson murdered Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman are definitely true, probably true, probably not true, or definitely not true? Look at these results: 80 percent say true, only 20 percent say not true. And again, this was taken before he was arrested on these latest charges --
GOFF: Well, I`m sure --
HAMMER: Excuse. And what I find really interesting here is that the number is even higher than soon after he was acquitted.
MARTIN: A.J., that`s not rare. That`s not rare.
HAMMER: Let me go to Cooper Lawrence on this, who is our psychology expert on the panel tonight, and has got to get in here anyway.
COOPER LAWRENCE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Thank you, A.J.
HAMMER: Cooper, why do you think these numbers are higher now than even right after his acquittal those years ago?
LAWRENCE: It`s really interesting. I`m actually researching this right now, this very idea, how much celebrity culture has changed in the past 13 years. I think that`s really what we`re seeing. Our view of what celebrity is, our expectations of celebrity are very different than they were 13 years ago. We are much more apt to believe that somebody like O.J., who`s a star that we love, could possibly do something like this, whereas now our expectations for celebrity have really changed. We`re at a point now where we feel --
MARTIN: No.
LAWRENCE: I`ve spoken to hundreds and hundreds of people. I`m in the middle of researching this very issue. And I`m telling you, the perception right now is that people feel, with celebrity, they`re more apt to believe something is negative about them because of the proliferation of all that over the past 13 years.
MARTIN: Let me please bring up John F. Kennedy and Lee Harvey Oswald. The Warren Commission determined that Lee Harvey Oswald was the person who killed Kennedy. The Select Committee on Assassination, less than 10 years later, they made a different determination. If you look at the people who believe that Oswald killed Kennedy in `63, it`s a much different number in the `70s and the `80s.
The reality is you have people who have painted the picture. We`ve had documentaries. We`ve had television shows. We`ve had books. All of those elements have formed the opinion of people. And so therefore, although people will say it`s higher now, it`s because they have framed the issue a lot differently. The same thing happened with Kennedy. The same thing is happening with O.J.
HAMMER: I think that absolutely makes a lot of sense. And we`re talking about why he`s the most hated man in America. I want you to hear something that O.J. Simpson`s attorney, Yale Galanter, said just outside of the courtroom after O.J. was released on bail. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YALE GALANTER, SIMPSON`S ATTORNEY: There isn`t a place on the planet that Mr. Simpson could go when somebody wouldn`t recognize him or know who he was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: And I`m betting they wouldn`t heckle him. Keli Goff, let me go to you. Is O.J. as hated everywhere else in the world as he is here in the United States?
GOFF: Actually, on that point I just think his attorney was making excuses because I think what they`re trying to do is explain the away the idea that O.J. would stay here and keep himself in this position.
As I was saying before, if he really, really wanted to fly under the radar, A.J., I think there`s doubt about it, that he could have done that. Even if he had to go to the extremes of relocating his family. And he could have become just as much of a relic of other things of the `90s like the M.C. Hammer parachute pants we`re all embarrassed about having worn, or what have you.
But he didn`t want to do that. He has this thing about wanting to be in the public eye. Apparently he missed the difference between infamous and famous and he thinks he`s still famous, and that`s the choice he`s made.
MARTIN: But is that surprising? Because he`s lived his entire life that way. When you are a star high school player, a star college player, star in the NFL, then you`re doing movies and things along those lines. Why do we think somehow he`s going to be different? He wasn`t going to be different.
GOFF: You`re right, Roland.
MARTIN: He wasn`t going to go underground. Klaus von Bulow, we know he killed his wife. Alan Dershowitz got him off. But again, he still goes to cocktail parties. The difference is, you`re right, he`s not sitting here with the same venom thrown at him as O.J. So, he`s not going to hiding.
HAMMER: This is also true. But he`s also not walking around, after getting arrested, with that smug look on his face. Charles, let`s take a look at that shot again. I can`t get enough of the mug shot. He`s been so smug about everything that`s been going on. And we`re looking at side by side the mug shot, he`s got a smug look on his face, and then he`s got a smirk as he`s being walked away in handcuffs.
Cooper Lawrence, back to you. Do you think that makes people`s blood boil over when they see that attitude?
LAWRENCE: It does because it`s a certain arrogance that they`ve grown accustomed to when it comes to O.J. That they just don`t want to tolerate anymore. And now as we were saying earlier, now that statistics are going in the way that we believe he`s guilty, not only do we believe he`s guilty now, we want something to happen. So yeah, people, of course they`re going to feel that way.
HAMMER: Keli Goff?
(CROSS TALK)
GOFF: I think wouldn`t you be smug if you got away with murder? I mean, it`s really not that surprising that he`s running around. He`s beaten the criminal justice system not once but twice at this point.
HAMMER: Get in here, Roland.
MARTIN: A.J., I understand the whole point about the smug photo. But guess what, when Tom DeLay, the House majority leader, when he was arrested on the charges in Texas for using -- or putting money into campaigns illegally, he took a mug shot where he was smiling. OK?
(CROSS TALK)
HAMMER: Hold on.
GOFF: There`s no difference between the two of them. We`re not saying that O.J. is any --
MARTIN: No, no, no,
(CROSS TALK)
MARTIN: I`m not comparing the circumstances in terms of the cases. What I`m saying is the whole issue of he had a smug look, so --
HAMMER: No, no, no, Roland, let me make my point --
MARTIN: So which do you want? The stern look, the sad look?
HAMMER: Let me make my point more clear. I think that smug look just plays into, as Cooper said, the arrogance. That`s all.
MARTIN: I agree.
HAMMER: It`s symbolic of that.
We`re out of time. Sorry, guys.
MARTIN: I agree.
HAMMER: Keli Goff, Cooper Lawrence, Roland Martin, I appreciate you joining us for this very fired up panel tonight.
ANDERSON: All right. Here`s a name I never thought I`d be saying again: Kato Kaelin, the world`s most famous house guest, back in the spotlight. And he has a really surprising take on O.J.`s new arrest. Kato Kaelin right here. That`s next in the interview you will see only right here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I`m not overly surprised to see it. I mean, he`s -- he`s really blown it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Well, Donald Trump used to know O.J. back in the day. But that doesn`t keep him from telling me how he really feels about him now. Wait until you hear what Donald Trump said when I asked him about O.J. being the most hated man in America.
ANDERSON: Can`t wait to hear what Donald has to think about it.
All right. And "The View" takes a stand against this guy, singer- performer Barry Manilow. He did not want to sit down with Elisabeth Hasselbeck because of her politics. The co-hosts really went off on this today on "The View". But the question is will Barry ever be on "The View"? That is coming up. You don`t want to miss that. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT for a Wednesday night returns after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATO KAELIN, : O.J.`s kind of crazy right now and he`s got people with guns getting all the stuff that belongs to him. All right? I lived there in the guest house. And OK, I was in the house once or twice. And I do have stuff from O.J. that doesn`t belong to me. I`m going to give it back! O.J., I`m giving it all back. I`m not -- don`t shoot me. You`ve got friends with guns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: That is Kato Kaelin having a laugh over the latest O.J. Simpson controversy.
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. You are watching TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.
Tonight, Kato Kaelin is back. The O.J. Simpson murder trial made him the most famous tenant in the country. Then, Kaelin lived in the guest house of Simpson`s home when Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman were murdered. Now, like a surreal flashback, Kato, here he is, he`s back, and he joins me now in Hollywood.
Kato, welcome.
KATO KAELIN: Brooke, thank you so much.
ANDERSON: This case, Kato, really unbelievable. And as you just heard us discussing, it really seems that people love to hate him. Some people are almost gleeful that this is happening. I have a pretty good idea, but why do you think that people hate him so much? You knew him very, very well.
KAELIN: Well, they`re really going to hate him after this special airs, too, the hate episode. And they hate him because it`s -- Brooke, he got away -- I think most people believe he got away with murder. And now the karma is coming back. And now it`s sort of the payback in life. And I think that is the reason -- if he goes to jail, I think the hate will subside, but right now the hate is boiling because they are just waiting to -- for his due.
ANDERSON: Yeah, all those memories come flooding back from the mid `90s.
KAELIN: I`m telling you, Brooke, I woke up -- I`m not joking -- they called, in some of the media, I swear thought I was testifying today or something. I was sweating, it was like I had a nightmare last night. I`m not making this up. It was crazy.
ANDERSON: Like you were having flashbacks yourself. And you know, Kato, whether or not people hate him, they seem to be obsessed with the story all over again. Now prosecutors in Las Vegas added kidnapping to the charges. O.J. Charged with 11 felony counts, including armed robbery. From everything you`ve seen so far what do you think? Guilty, not guilty?
KAELIN: Well, I think it`s pretty obvious it`s going to be guilty on this, that he did break in. Whether or not the tapes are going to be used in court, I don`t know. But if you think about it, Brooke, it`s craziness because of the cast of characters. It`s like O.J.`s life is like a trilogy of a movie.
It`s like "The Godfather", one, two, and three. You have the criminal trial, part one, part two, the civil trial, and now the robbery trial to end the whole trilogy of what`s going to happen. And it may be life in jail. And it really is playing out like a movie. I think people see O.J.`s life as this movie. It`s just -- the characters are -- you can`t make it up!
ANDERSON: They are characters. And everyone has followed along for years. You`re right about that. And I`m sure we will be watching every single step of this case along with the rest of the country. But it has to be particularly strange for you to see O.J. Simpson in court again. You know, this time almost 15 years later. And when you see him in court, you look back to the murder trial, does it all just blow your mind?
KAELIN: It does. I`ll tell you, though, in the actual criminal trial I thought he had somewhat of an arrogance, waving to the jury. I think in this last shot of the robbery he does look defeated. He does look like he`s played his cards. And there`s none left.
ANDERSON: Maybe he`s been humbled a little bit, although he did have that smirk in the mug shot. But --
KAELIN: You know -- exactly, the smirk. The whole thing of it taking place in Vegas, the handcuffs, there was no Bronco chase. You`d think there would be like a chase in the casino, there he is behind the baccarat tables, get him! He just popped in to see Celine Dion, he`s there, tackle him. It was just --
ANDERSON: Oh, boy. You`re talking about a movie right there. You were dragged into court years ago to testify in that trial. And now years later you`re sitting here, you`re back in the spotlight. Your 15 minutes of fame turned into almost 15 years, Kato. Do you think in some sort of morbid way that O.J. has done some good for you?
KAELIN: You know, I think also not just for me, but just the media itself, it`s sort of like crime does pay. It`s started networks and news stories and lawyers getting jobs. I`m not lying. Yes, it brought me into a spotlight. I`ve been working at a company called National Lampoon making movies. I`m in every one of their films. But this is just national, national attention that it brings.
But for me itself it`s been steady work on a court show myself and then --
ANDERSON: Yeah, in addition to National Lampoons, what have you been up to? People are curious to know, where has Kato Kaelin been?
KAELIN: Where has Kato been? Brooke, I want to hang with you. But I`ve been a spokesperson for a company called Ask.com. It`s a big national commercial campaign. It`s hysterical. Where they have 200 people that are dressed as Kato, they molded my face -- as if one Kato wasn`t enough. I do the comedy development at National Lampoon, their movies. And I host a viral video show on National Lampoon.
ANDERSON: Sounds like you have been busy, Kato Kaelin.
KAELIN: That`s right.
ANDERSON: You know, we appreciate you joining us. Thanks so much.
KAELIN: I`m so glad I got to meet you, and you guys have a great show. Thanks for having me.
ANDERSON: Of course. And you can see Kato on the TV show National Lampoon`s "Eye for an Eye".
HAMMER: Kato Kaelin right there, it`s surreal.
Donald Trump sounding off about his old buddy O.J., too. Today I went to the official launch of Donald`s new condominium, called The Trump Soho. He told me he and O.J. used to hang out together and in true Donald Trump style he didn`t hold back at all when I asked for his thoughts on O.J. new arrest. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Who would have expected his life would turn out the way it`s turned out? It`s terrible. But I`m not overly surprised to see it. He`s really blown it.
HAMMER: Do you think he can squeeze out of this one?
TRUMP: Who would have thought he could have squeezed out of the last one? In theory, he didn`t, but a jury said he was innocent. This is probably the least innocent person I`ve ever seen. No, it`s to bad. And it`s a hell of a way to end a life.
HAMMER: A lot of people call him the most hated man in America. Do you think it`s an apt description for the guy at this point?
TRUMP: No. I would say that belongs to President Bush.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Wow. He`s one to express how he truly feels.
Of course, I had to ask Donald for his reaction to Rosie O`Donnell`s new book which trashes him. So you don`t want to miss what he told me. That`ll be tomorrow on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
ANDERSON: Yesterday we asked you to vote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day. O.J. Simpson`s new arrest, do you believe he was set up? And 20 percent of you say yes; 80 percent of you say no. Here are some of the e-mails we received.
Denise from Oregon writes, "No one made him go to this place. He is hanging with bad people. That`s what happens."
Terrie from Florida says, "O.J. is a black man. So, of course, he is going to have it harder proving his innocence."
HAMMER: "The View" takes a stand against Barry Manilow. Yeah, he didn`t want to sit down with Elisabeth Hasselbeck because of her politics. Well, the co-hosts really went off on all of this today. The question is will Barry ever be on "The View"? We`re going to fill new on what happened next. You won`t want to miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT TV`s most provocative entertainment news show. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. And it looks like Barry Manilow is going to be on "The View" after all.
Manilow was supposed to be on the show yesterday, but he didn`t appear because he wanted to be interviewed by anyone except Elisabeth Hasselbeck. Well, Manilow told TMZ that he finds her political views, quote, "dangerous."
But today on the program Whoopi Goldberg said everyone has made peace and he will be on the show at some point in the future. At that point they can say it looks like he made it. Also today the co-hosts talked about the decision by Barbara Walters and Executive Producer Bill Getty to not accommodate Manilow`s request in the first place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": Barbara and Bill made a decision that has stood from the beginning of "The View." If you don`t sit with one, you sit with none.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.
(APPLAUSE)
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": But there are a lot of people who don`t like my politics -- or yours. And they also refuse to sit with us. But they`re not -- they have not --
GOLDBERG: We don`t care.
BEHAR: It`s not like that. We practice free speech here.
GOLDBERG: That`s right. That`s what it is.
ELIZABETH HASSELBECK, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": And just if I could say one thing, I think that`s the beauty of this, is we operate I think as courageous women who sit here every day, and love one another through our differences, not despite them. And I think that`s a wonderful thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Maybe Barry needs to spend some time in New England. He`s been make the rounds promoting his new album "Greatest Song of the `70s".
ANDERSON: We`ve been asking you to vote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day. It is this, Britney Spears` drug ruling. Should her kids be taken away? Keep voting. Cnn.com/showbiztonight. Write to us, showbiztonight@cnn.com. We will read some of your e-mails tomorrow.
HAMMER: It is time to see what is coming up on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. No Barry Manilow puns, I promise you, because tomorrow The Donald and Rosie feud heats up again. This time the battle of the books. Donald Trump tells me what he thinks about Rosie`s new book and whether she shows up in his new book. Donald Trump sounding off on Rosie again, tomorrow. In the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
Also, one of the most controversial TV shows of the new TV season is on the air. "Kid Nation" has arrived, leaving kids to fend for themselves. Already so much uproar about the show, kids getting hurt, parents flipping out. We are investigating "Kid Nation" tomorrow on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
And that is it for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Thanks a lot for watching. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
ANDERSON: Have a great night, everybody. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. "Glenn Beck" coming up next, right after the latest headlines from CNN "Headline News".
END
