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Showbiz Tonight

Will Oprah Weather Her Crisis?; Girlfriend of Dog Chapman`s Son Speaks Out for First Time

Aired November 06, 2007 - 23:00   ET


A.J. HAMMER, CO-HOST: Did crocodile hunter Steve Irwin predict his own death? A chilling revelation from his widow, Terri. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
BROOKE ANDERSON, CO-HOST: And why Julia Roberts says she can`t believe why anybody would want to get into show business. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts right now.

HAMMER: On SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, Oprah`s painfully tough times. Tonight, her health crisis, the abuse scandal at her school for girls. How much more can Oprah take? Should we be worried?


JO PIAZZA, CORRESPONDENT, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": This really hasn`t been a good year for Oprah.


HAMMER: Plus, the crying game. Oprah`s emotional words. Ellen`s hysterical crying over a dog. Heather Mills` tearful rant. Doesn`t anyone keep anything private anymore? And should they? It`s a showbiz special report, "The Crying Game."

Tonight in the doghouse. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with brand-new developments in the controversy over Dog, The Bounty Hunter`s racial rants. Tonight, the target of his attack, his son`s girlfriend, speaks out for the first time. Plus, The Dog finally gets some unbelievable news he`s been dying to hear. Lock down the kennel because SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is bringing you a dog day to remember.


HAMMER: Hello, I`m A.J. Hammer, broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.

ANDERSON: Hi there, everyone. I`m Brooke Anderson coming to you from Hollywood. And hey, Britney Spears, give Julia Roberts a call. She might be making a bed for you in her guest house. I`ll explain what that`s all about. Coming up.

HAMMER: But first, tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is raising the red flag about Oprah Winfrey. The sex abuse scandal at Oprah`s school for girls is just the latest pain that she has had to deal with. She`s had health problems. She lost something very dear to her. And all this got us asking, should we be very worried about Oprah?


(voice over): One would think that life for a universally adored billionaire would be a bed of roses. But lately, for Oprah Winfrey, things have gotten a bit thorny.

OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": This has been one of the most devastating, if not the most devastating, experience of my life.

HAMMER: A disturbing scandal continues to rock her beloved girls` school in South Africa. A former matron at the school is charged with abusing some of the girls in her care and Oprah is calling it one of the big crises of her life.

WINFREY: When I first heard about it, I spent about a half hour crying, moving from room to room in my house. I was so stunned I couldn`t even wrap my brain around it.

ALICIA QUARLES, CORRESPONDENT, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS: This school was her baby. She put $40 million into it. She said it was her dream. So to have it all blow up in her face like this has got to be devastating.

HAMMER: The stars at "Glamour`s" "Women of the Year" awards in New York tell SHOWBIZ TONIGHT they know Oprah will ride out the scandal.

TAYE DIGGS, ABC`S "PRIVATE PRACTICE": I know. You know, because she is who she is, she is going to get to the bottom of it.

DIANE SAWYER, ANCHOR, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA": I just know that she`s going to show the world how you transform something heartbreaking into something that makes the world better.

HAMMER: But SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you the school abuse scandal isn`t the only problem Oprah has had to deal with lately.

WINFREY: At the end of May, I was so exhausted. I couldn`t figure out what was going on in my life.

HAMMER: On her show recently, Oprah opened up about her thyroid condition. Before she got it treated this past spring, her illness caused her to gain 20 pounds.

WINFREY: I was still feeling really tired, really tired, going around from doctor to doctor trying to figure out what was wrong.

HAMMER: And just when you think it couldn`t get any worse for Oprah, she lost one of her close friends.

PIAZZA: Oprah had a really personal devastation in her life, the death of her 2-year-old golden retriever Gracie.

HAMMER: In her magazine and here on her web site, Oprah opened up about the pain of losing Gracie, one of the three adorable golden retrievers she adopted two years ago. Gracie died in May after choking on a plastic ball. Oprah says, quote, "I feel like I just got stabbed in the chest." SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you it`s an extraordinarily run of bad luck for the Queen of Daytime TV.

PIAZZA: It really hasn`t been a good year for Oprah.

HAMMER: Of course, Oprah`s life has been filled with hardships, starting with her childhood.

QUARLES: Oprah herself was a victim of abuse. When she was 9 she was raped by a cousin and three other family members allegedly assaulted her.

WINFREY: This is so exciting.

HAMMER: But even after she became a big time talk show host, problems seemed to follow her and each one seemed to play out publicly.

PIAZZA: The thing with Oprah is she`s always been really open about her own problems.

HAMMER: Her struggles with weight loss were well documented. An offhand comment she made on her show almost turned into the most expensive ad-lib ever. The cattle industry sued her for defamation.

And more recently she was humiliated when a memoir she endorsed for her book club, "A Million Little Pieces" turned out to be a lot more fictionalized than its author let on.

WINFREY: It`s shaken me to my core.

HAMMER: And now, Oprah`s school, the accomplishment she prides above all others is under fire, making headlines all over the world. And one has to wonder, how much can Oprah take? Is she about to break down on air like Ellen DeGeneres did in her dog giveaway mishap?

ELLEN DEGENERES, HOST, "THE ELLEN DEGENERES SHOW": I feel totally responsible for it. I`m so sorry.

HAMMER: Or will she melt down like Rosie O`Donnell on her last day on "The View."

ROSIE O`DONNELL: You can say all the Republican crap you want.

HAMMER: Maybe not. After all, it is Oprah we`re talking about.

PIAZZA: Oprah is a strong woman. And she`s been through scandals before, and she knows how to deal with it.

HAMMER: Yes, Oprah is known for adversity, but she`s even better known for beating it. She beat the cattle ranchers who sued her. And we all remember the way she went after James Fry, the author of that exaggerated memoir.

WINFREY: I feel that you conned us all.

HAMMER: So will she be successful against her current round of hardships? Too soon to tell, but we wouldn`t recommend betting against it.

PIAZZA: Oprah always bounces back.


HAMMER: Well, can she bounce back? It has been such a tough year for Oprah Winfrey. And joining me tonight in Hollywood, senior editor of "In Touch Weekly" Kim Serafin. And also in Hollywood tonight, Dr. Jenn Berman, psychotherapist and author of "The A To Z Guide To Raising Happy, Confident Kids."

Kim, Jenn, I appreciate you both being here. Oprah, obviously, as we just reported, has been through such an incredible amount of emotional pressure. Just over the last couple months alone. Kim, what do you think? Should we be worried about her?

KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Oh, I don`t think so at all. I think if you watched her giving those remarks yesterday, she sounded so eloquent. She sounded so classy. She sounded so together even though she was saying it was one of the most devastating times in her life. She almost handled it as if it were one of her shows.

For me, I thought it ranked very authentic and very sincere in the way that she handled it, that she handled it the way she would approach a problem on her show, and the way she would approach a guest having an issue on her show. She said there are things we can learn from this, and I think that`s how Oprah has behaved her whole life.

HAMMER: Yes, but Kim, you know, one of the things - and she was very poised at that news conference, but that`s what Oprah does also. That`s the only thing that had me sort of wondering. You know, it`s easy to mask things when you`re good at being in front of crowds like that and performing that way.

SERAFIN: That`s true, but you know that too because you`re on TV. It`s sort of how she deals with it the best, I think, by putting these things out there. She talked about her thyroid condition. She wrote about it in her magazine. She talked about it on her show. She talked about the incident with her dog on her show. She talked about it publicly.

So I think this is how - if you live your life in the public eye, if this is how things happen to you every day, this is how you deal with those issues. And I think this is what helped her get through it. I think if she didn`t have this outlet, I think it was probably very frustrating for her when she wasn`t able to talk about it, when she had to keep silent because of the legal aspects. I think this is somewhat cathartic for her because this is how she can deal with things. This is her life.

HAMMER: Now, a really good point. And one of the things that Oprah revealed at that news conference was what she was going through behind closed doors when she had first heard about the abuse allegations at her school for girls. Let`s watch that.


WINFREY: When I first heard about it, I spent about a half hour crying, moving from room to room in my house. I was so stunned, I couldn`t even wrap my brain around it.


HAMMER: So, Jenn, you know, as we were discussing, Oprah has been putting on this very brave face in public.


HAMMER: And we got a little glimpse as to what she was going through behind closed doors, but what do you think she may be going through right now that we`re not seeing?

BERMAN: Well I think that she is absolutely devastated. She`s got to be experiencing tremendous depression and anger. This is so personal for her. As a survivor of sexual abuse, she knows what these girls are going through.

And she also has such a sense of responsibility. She refers to the girls in her school as her daughters and her girls. And for this to happen under her watch has to be devastating. But the good news is that if something terrible is going to happen to you, as far as these girls go. Who do you want with you but Oprah? There is nobody more empowering than Oprah to help these girls through the difficult time.

HAMMER: And as we reported, it`s not just the scandal that she`s had to deal with. You know the sort of pile of things going on with her, the health issues that she has discussed on her program, the loss of her beloved dog. Kim Serafin, what do you think? Where does Oprah`s strength come from?

SERAFIN: Well, obviously a lot of it comes from her own upbringing that she went through all these problems whether it was poverty or whether it was abuse as a child. But then she saw there was a light at the end of the tunnel. She saw that by hard work, by focus, by just muddling through things and dealing with the issues head on, she can become so successful.

I mean, in the same week that she`s dealing with all the other bad stuff happening, she is also launching her own channel on YouTube. Not that that makes up obviously for the horrible things that go on in her life, but there is always salvation there. There is always something going forward. And for anyone, you know, you would want to work through this and find a better solution but I think for Oprah, it`s going to make her work even harder to address a lot of these issues.

And, again, she did say this with her dog, with her thyroid condition, with this issue, that there`s always a lesson to be learned and there`s always something more that we can do. I think also with her dog incident she said she doesn`t believe in accidents. She thinks that things happen for a reason. Whether that sounds, you know, esoteric to some or touchy feely, it works for her. I think she really does believe it.

HAMMER: No, I think she believes it. Jenn, I want to ask you because you`ve been on Oprah`s show. I`m wondering what you`ve seen up close and personal from her that might give us a little more insight into how she deals with adversity.

BERMAN: Well, Oprah is clearly someone who has done the work on herself and encourages other people to do the same. And I suspect that we`re going to see Oprah go through her own experience of grief and loss and mourning and anger. And we`ll see all sides of this because she is someone who is in the public eye and is very authentic and really does share her feelings and her experiences with her audience.

HAMMER: I think she`ll get through it just fine.

BERMAN: She`s such a survivor.

HAMMER: She is. Jenn Berman, Kim Serafin, I appreciate you being with us tonight.

SERAFIN: Thank you.

ANDERSON: Oprah`s emotional reaction to the abuse scandal at her school got us thinking there has been a whole lot of crying on television lately. Ellen losing it over a dog, Heather Mills boohooing all over morning TV. Hayden Panettiere sobbing over dolphins. Are these public breakdowns a good thing? We`re asking that question 30 minutes past the hour in a showbiz special report, "The Crying Game." Also this.


DUANE "THE DOG" CHAPMAN, BOUNTY HUNTER: I`m not going to take a chance ever in life of losing everything I`ve worked for, for 30 years to some (EXPLETIVE DELETED) who heard us say (EXPLETIVE)and turned us into the "Enquirer" magazine.


HAMMER: The bounty hunter in the doghouse. Brand new developments in the controversy over Dog`s racial rants. His son`s girlfriend speaking out for the first time. Plus, should he be forgiven? You do not want to miss this. It`s coming up.

ANDERSON: And one of the biggest movie stars on the planet, Julia Roberts speaking out like never before about fame and why she can`t believe anybody even wants to go into show business these days. Really stunning opinion from Julia. We`ve got them coming up.



CHAPMAN: I`m not going to take a chance ever in life of losing everything I`ve worked for, for 30 years to some (EXPLETIVE DELETED) who heard us say (EXPLETIVE)and turned us into the "Enquirer" magazine.


ANDERSON: That`s Duane "Dog" Chapman caught on tape in a racial rant. Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. Tonight brand-new developments in the controversy surrounding Duane "Dog" Chapman`s outrageous racist rant.

The target of his rant was the girlfriend of his Dog`s son, Tucker. And now, she is speaking up for the very first time. So can the dog break free from the doghouse?

Let`s get right to it. With us tonight in New York, Lisa Bloom, anchor for "Court TV." Also tonight in New York, Marc Lamont Hill, blogger and professor of American Studies at Temple University. Great to see you both.

Now, we`re talking about dog`s racial rant. It was aimed at his son Tucker`s black girlfriend, Monique Shinnery. Duane "Dog" Chapman has insisted he`s not a racist but listen to what Monique told "The National Enquirer."


MONIQUE SHINNERY, TUCKER CHAPMAN`S GIRLFRIEND: I believe Duane is a racist. Because I`ve heard many times what he says about me, not just this one time but a lot of things he says and a lot of things he does.


ANDERSON: Lisa, a powerful claim from her and of course, an explosive tape. Do you - with the girlfriend speaking out now, do you think it`s only going to further the perception that some people have that dog Chapman may be racist?

LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, "COURT TV": You know, when you use the "N" word over and over and over again, I don`t think there`s any other possible conclusion other than that you are a racist. He`s talking about his son`s own girlfriend. I mean, what on earth would provoke him to do that other than a malignant heart that`s filled with racism? I don`t know what other possible explanation there would be.

ANDERSON: And he does say in the tape that they throw that word around kind of frequently, seemed casually, the way he was talking about it. And I want to take a listen to that call again which his son reportedly taped and sold for $15,000 to "The National Enquirer." Listen to this.


CHAPMAN: It`s not because she`s black. It`s because we use the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sometimes here. I`m not going to take a chance ever in life of losing everything I`ve worked for, for 30 years because some (EXPLETIVE DELETED)heard us say (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and turned us in to the "Enquirer" magazine. Our career is over. I`m not taking that chance at all.

ANDERSON: OK. Now, Dog Chapman has just arrived in Los Angeles for his first interview since this tape was made public. It`ll be on CNN`s "LARRY KING LIVE" Wednesday night at 9:00 Eastern. Marc, what does he need to say to convince people that he`s not a racist, or is there anything he can say?

MARC LAMONT HILL, PROFESSOR: Well, there`s nothing he can say to convince me. And I think there are a whole heap of Americans for whom nothing can be said that will convince us that he is not a racist. The good thing - the thing that works in his favor is that America has an extraordinary capacity to forgive issues of race and racism.

And so there will be people for whom an apology is sufficient, just like with Don Imus. He said it - he said he didn`t mean it. He said it came from a bad place, just like Michael Richards. He`s OK, so I think it will be very either/or - people who will never accept it and people who`ll very quickly accept it.

BLOOM: But there is one small difference here which is that Imus and Michael Richards used those words at work as part of their shows. I mean, this was a private conversation with a family member. And so, I mean, I suppose he could argue, look, it`s not work related.

But to be forgiven, he has to acknowledge that he`s done wrong and ask for forgiveness. So far he hasn`t done that, so I don`t see why any of us should be forgiving him.

HILL: Yes. I agree. I think that the thing about it coming from a private place to me makes it even more dangerous because there was no pressure to perform. It wasn`t like Don Imus doing a Lenny Bruce impression. This was just an everyday talk for him. That makes him more dangerous and less believable that he could have any type of contrition.

ANDERSON: Well, clearly, he is going to have a lot of explaining to do to Larry. As we know, A & E has suspended production of his show while all of this is happening. Marc, what do you think A & E should do going forward, because it was vile, horrendous language and as you both say, it is difficult to forget? But they suspended production. They don`t say cancel at this point. What should the network do?

HILL: Well, this is as much a moral decision as a market based decision. As long as people are turned of by Dog Chapman, the show is not going to go on the air because they`ll lose sponsors and lose their fan base. I think they should continue to keep it on the shelf.

BLOOM: He probably has a moral turpitude in his contract. I know, I have them in my television contracts. Sometimes that means you have to break the law in an immoral way. Sometimes it`s just behaving in an immoral way. That`s going to depend on what his contract says. But the biggest issue is going to be money. Are people going to turn away from his advertisers? Are they going to turn off the show? I mean I think they should. I think it`s repulsive what he`s done.

ANDERSON: Well, as he struggles with this, there is one piece of good news for dog Chapman. He was facing extradition to Mexico for breaking a law in bounty hunting there, but Dog has learned from a federal judge in Hawaii he will not be extradited. Lisa, can dog finally put that case behind him, focus on what he`s got to deal with now?

BLOOM: Yes, I guess he can. I mean that seems to be over and done with, but he`s got a bigger problem now. You know, what`s remarkable is on that tape, he acknowledges he could lose everything he`s worked for because he uses the "N" word, yet he continues to use the "N" word on the tape. I mean, does that make any sense?

HILL: That`s the great irony of life. He had no expectation the very thing he was worried about would bring him down. Wonderful.

BLOOM: It`s almost as if it`s more important for him to keep using the word.

HILL: Exactly.

BLOOM: Well, when we see him on "LARRY KING LIVE" in his first public interview, Marc, very quickly, what could help change the public perception? Because at this point, a lot of people realized what he said and a lot of people have horrible thoughts about Dog.

HILL: The one thing I think he could do, which is something that Imus didn`t do and Michael Richards didn`t do is say, "Look, I am in a racist. I`m in recovery. I am working on it, but I am racist. I need to work through this." I think then we could empathize a little bit more. It would be the most honest act I`ve ever seen on television in regard to this.

BLOOM: In recovery, what`s he going to do? Go to rehab? Go to promises? I hope not.

HILL: Hey, that`s what celebrities do.

ANDERSON: Marc Lamont Hill, Lisa Bloom, we will leave it there. Thank you so much. And Dog Chapman, as I said, his first interview since the whole controversy broke. That`s Wednesday, "LARRY KING LIVE."

HAMMER: Well, so far Dog has kept pretty quiet about this scandal. But it seems like every time I`m turning on the TV somebody else is crying. From Oprah, to Ellen, to Heather Mills, and even Hayden Panettiere. Can somebody get out the tissues, please. There`s been a lot of tears flying around lately. That`s coming up at 30 minutes past the hour, a showbiz special report, "The Crying Game." We`ll also have this.


WILLIAM BALDWIN, ACTOR: One family is famous and wealthy and dysfunctional, and my family is famous, wealthy, and very dysfunctional.


HAMMER: Billy Baldwin, connecting the dots between his role on the hit show "Dirty, Sexy Money" and his own family. He opened up to me like never before about his famous family and their famous troubles. You won`t want to miss it. Coming up.

ANDERSON: And why Julia Roberts may be making up her guest house for Britney Spears. Yes, you heard me right. There is more to that story than you might think. That`s straight ahead.

HAMMER: And now, you can watch SHOWBIZ TONIGHT anytime at all. All you have to do is download our podcast. And you know the best part of the whole deal? It`s absolutely free. Won`t cost you a penny.

If you`re looking for the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT podcast, it`s as easy as surfing on over to our web site It also is downloadable on iTunes if you type "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" into the search box, it would (INAUDIBLE) on your computing device. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT coming right back.


ANDERSON: Wednesday on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, predicting Britney`s future. Who could guess she`d shave her head or choke at the VMAs? So what`s in store for Britney for the days to come? Will she go broke, find Jesus, maybe, or have a show in Vegas? This is Britney we`re talking about, so anything is possible. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT gets out the crystal ball. We are predicting Britney`s future, Wednesday.

HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Angelina Jolie says she is excited to finish up the movie she`s working on so she can get back on the road for the UN. Angelina has been so busy working lately. She stars with Anthony Hopkins and John Malkovich in the upcoming movie, "Beowulf," directed by Robert Zemeckis. She and Brad Pitt were at the Los Angeles premiere of the movie on Monday night. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT caught up with Angelina. And she told us she has really missed traveling overseas for her work as goodwill ambassador for the United Nations Refugee Commission. Watch this.


ANGELINA JOLIE, ACTRESS: I haven`t traveled as much as I like to. I mean I only took a brief trip to Syria and Iraq. But it`s been a while since I`ve been to Africa and it`s been too long since I`ve been to Cambodia. So I`m feeling that I actually haven`t done enough lately. So I intend to finish the movie and get out there again.


HAMMER: And the movie that she`s on right now is called "The Changeling." It`s directed by Clint Eastwood. You can see her in "Beowulf" in theaters, November 16.

ANDERSON: OK, have you noticed this lately? It seems every time I turn on the television, somebody is crying.


HEATHER MILLS, PAUL MCCARTNEY`S EX-WIFE: I`ve been close to suicide, so upset about this. I`ve had worst press than a pedophile or a murderer.


ANDERSON: Heather Mills not the only one who has gotten all sniffly in public lately. Ellen DeGeneres shed some tears on her show. Then there`s Oprah. Even Hayden Panettiere. That is next, in the showbiz special report, "The Crying Game."

HAMMER: Plus, a chilling statement from crocodile hunter Steve Irwin`s widow, Terri Irwin who says her husband had a feeling he would die young and often talked about it. Terri in her own words coming up.

ANDERSON: And at 45 past the hour, Billy Baldwin unplugged. He is opening up like never before about his famous family and their famous troubles. You won`t want to miss that. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is coming right back. Stay with us.



HAMMER: On SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, you might want to break out the tissues. It`s crying time.


MILLS: I`ve been close to suicide, so upset about this.


MILLS: I`ve had worse press than a pedophile or a murderer.


HAMMER: And it isn`t just Heather Mills who has gotten all weepy on TV lately. Ellen totally lost it over a dog, even Oprah and Hayden Panettiere shed some tears. Is it good for stars to wear their heart on their sleeve or is it just too much sniffling going on? Tonight, a showbiz special report, "The Crying Game."

Did crocodile hunter Steve Irwin predict his own death? Tonight, it`s a chilling and emotional revelation from his widow, Terri, who is opening up like never before about her late husband.


HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. It`s 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.

ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson coming to you tonight from Hollywood. This is TV`s most provocative entertainment news show. Tonight, a showbiz special report, "The Crying Game." There`s a crying game happening in Hollywood these days and SHOWBIZ TONIGHT wants to know why, for crying out loud.

Oprah`s emotional press conference about the abuse scandal at her all girls` school. And Ellen DeGeneres, of course, you had her crying hysterically on her show over a dog. Heather Mills going on a TV rant about her divorce duel with Paul McCartney, and more. Here`s the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT refresher course.


WINFREY: This has been one of the most devastating, if not the most devastating, experience of my life.

DEGENERES: Those people went and took that dog out of their home and took it away from those kids. And I feel totally responsible for it. I`m so sorry.

MILLS: I`ve had worse press than a pedophile or a murderer.


ANDERSON: So what do you think? Should stars keep their pain private, or is this a good thing? With us tonight for "The Crying Game" in New York, criminal defense attorney and TV host Lauren Lake. In Hollywood, managing editor for "," Ken Baker. Also in Hollywood, psychotherapist Jenn Berman who is the author of the "A to Z Guide to Raising Happy, Confident Kids." Welcome to all of you. You know, at Oprah`s news conference she talked about how, when she first heard about the abuse scandal, it made her cry. Listen to this.


WINFREY: When I first heard about it, I spent about a half hour crying, moving from room to room in my house. I was so stunned. I couldn`t even wrap my brain around it.

ANDERSON: She was painfully honest in the details of what she went through. I was riveted listening to her words. Ken, what do you think? Is this a good thing or should she have kept this private?

KEN BAKER, MANAGING EDITOR, "USMAGAZINE.COM": Yes, she was honest but she didn`t exhibit the feelings that she was when she was stumbling around the house a mess, which I think the public appreciates. I think they trusted Oprah as telling the truth, as revealing her true emotions and showing enough emotion for us to know and be convinced that she was truly hurt and damaged in this. She said, "devastated by it." She didn`t go over the top and I think that`s why it was a very effective means of communicating really where she was at and how she felt about it.

ANDERSON: Yes, it`s obvious she`s been caused a lot of despair and anguish by this. Dr. Jenn, what do you think?

BERMAN: Well, you know, it`s interesting a study came out by Penn State recently that looked at how people perceive men that cry and women that cry. And women are judged in a much more harsh fashion. And I think Oprah`s tears were very appropriate and the setting even revealed less is better, that we want to see people get teary eyed.

We don`t want to see them sobbing like Ellen did. It feels we`re witnessing a very private moment when someone gets that out of control. And I think it`s very hard to have empathy for someone like Heather Mills. Boohoo, I want my $500 million.

ANDERSON: Speaking of Heather Mills and sobbing, let`s talk about her. She really came undone in her interview with Britain`s "Good Morning Television" about how she feels she`s been treated by the press regarding her divorce from Paul McCartney.



MILLS: I`ve been close to suicide so upset about this. I`ve had worse press than a pedophile or a murderer, and I`ve done nothing but charity for 20 years.


ANDERSON: Lauren, does this seem to you to be a heartfelt meltdown or were we seeing crocodile tears?

LAUREN LAKE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think she really did melt down. But what I found most interesting is that she has been portrayed as this evil, wicked gold digger. And, you know - and now we see she can be a sensitive and mushy gold digger and that her feelings can get hurt, too.

This is the part that I think people don`t understand. Is that just because you may be out for something or you`re not very high up in the court of popular opinion, it doesn`t mean you can`t have a meltdown. And I will give Heather this, she had gotten more press than many pedophiles and many murderers. She stated a fact.

ANDERSON: She was right about that. Very distressed and she wanted to take it public. All right. Ken, what do you think? Should we take pity on Heather or is her crying game hurting her?

BAKER: Well, here is the whole problem with Heather is that the image that she had before she gave this interview or these couple of interviews where she was crying was that she was kind of angry, kind of nasty and was probably very difficult to be married to for Paul McCartney. And you know what? That kind of came across in the interview.

So here she is saying, lay off me, but she came across as angry, spiteful and kind of had a mean streak in her, sort of like those emotions bubbled up and the real Heather Mills came and showed us who she really was. And I think it didn`t help her because of that reason, and I think she`s allowed to cry. She`s allowed to have tears.

Look, we don`t really know. Maybe Paul McCartney was horrible to be married to. Maybe she is really getting bad press and a bad spin. But at the end of the day, the public perception is that she`s going for the money and the public just wants her to go away. And I think she really just does need to shut up.

ANDERSON: Well, Paul, on the other hand, has remained silent about this. Dr. Jenn, was that you?

BERMAN: I couldn`t agree with Ken more. I think it is her anger and the venom is what makes people uncomfortable and makes people feel like you can`t even side with her if you want to. She seems so angry that you felt she was even taking it out on the interviewer. And you do imagine that if that`s the way she treated the interviewer that she probably didn`t treat her soon-to-be ex-husband all that well either.

BAKER: Yes. Yes. Keep her away from knives. Don`t argue with her in the kitchen.

ANDERSON: Oh, no. Oh, boy. We certainly can`t talk about the crying game without the cry that launched it all. Ellen DeGeneres` emotional breakdown on her show about a dog that she adopted, then gave to her makeup artist and her family that was taken away by the agency whom she adopted the dog from. Take a look.


DEGENERES: I was trying to do a good thing and because I did it wrong those people went and took that dog out of their home and took it away from those kids. And I feel totally responsible for it. I`m so sorry. And I`m begging them to give that dog back to that family. I just want them - the family to have their dog. It`s not their fault. It`s my fault.


ANDERSON: Lauren, too over the top?

LAKE: I`ll tell you this. People are obsessed with reality TV, and then when there`s a moment of reality we can`t decide whether we want to see it or not. I really think Ellen had a meltdown right there, but people keep saying it`s over the dog. I don`t think it was over the dog.

I think she was really hurt because she felt like she hurt two innocent kids and that really got to her. But, bottom line is, Brooke, the show chose to air it. And for her own reasons they could have said, "Ellen, get yourself together. We`re going to go for that again."

We all know that. But instead they aired it just the way it happened. And we`ve got to decide, America, do we want to be up front and in the mix, or do we want things to be censored to us? You`ve got to decide.

ANDERSON: I want to move now from Ellen DeGeneres to "Heroes" star, 18- year-old Hayden Panettiere who broke down uncontrollably in tears in Japan after failing to stop the slaughter of dolphins.


HAYDEN PANETTIERE, "HEROES" STAR: They were literally fly hopping which is when they jump out of the water, they stick their head up out of the water and they can look around. A baby stuck his head out and kind of looked at us and the thought that the baby is no longer with us -


ANDERSON: Now the video was shot on purpose by the anti-whaling group that was there with Hayden. Ken, what do you think? Do you think they accomplished their mission, maybe increased awareness in a way with Hayden being so openly emotional?

BAKER: Well, tears for political purposes. I mean, she was crying when she was on the surfboard and she was in the water in the original footage. That was all very genuine, you know. They were documenting it. But she was scared, she was upset. But then in the interviews after, it just came across as very manipulative. And basically, I kind of felt like we were being manipulated for these political purposes.

Now, of course, who is really against dolphin killing? So, I mean, it`s hard to sort of argue with it, but it does seem manipulative even though it`s very honest and heartfelt. She is an 18-year-old girl. She`s very passionate about it and it`s a very disturbing thing that she`s talking about.

ANDERSON: Certainly. I don`t think many people would say they were for dolphin killing whatsoever. It will be interesting to see if we see more high-profile people in the future wearing their hearts on their sleeves and getting into this crying game. Dr. Jenn Berman, Lauren Lake, Ken Baker, thank you all for joining us.

BERMAN: Thank you.

LAKE: Thanks.

HAMMER: All right. It`s been more than a year since the world learned of the shocking death of Steve "The Crocodile Hunter" Irwin. I`ve got to tell you what his widow has just revealed totally startled me. You`ll hear that for yourself in just a moment. And then there`s the Baldwin family.


BALDWIN: One family is famous and wealthy and dysfunctional and my family is famous, wealthy and very dysfunctional.


HAMMER: One thing I can tell you about Billy Baldwin, this guy was not at all shy about speaking out about his family. And wait until you hear what he had to say about the Anna Nicole Smith tragedy. I go one-on-one with the star of TV`s big hit "Dirty Sexy Money" Coming up.

ANDERSON: Wait a second, A.J. No, that can`t be - Why, yes, it is. That`s a horse. As a matter of fact, it`s the smallest horse in the world, and its name is not Mr. Ed. Hold your horses. This showbiz video of the day is coming up next.

But first we`ve been asking you to vote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day. It is this. Dog Chapman apologizes: Should he be forgiven for his racial rant? Keep voting at Send us an e-mail. Here`s the address: Do it from your desktop, your laptop, even your Blackberry or cell phone, whatever you want to tell us.


ANDERSON: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. While our showbiz video of the day made us have a heyday, a horse is a horse of course. But when the horse is the world`s smallest horse, of course, you`ll see it here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, as a matter of course, of course. Enough of that.

All right. Meet Thumbelina; here she is. She is a 6-year-old, 17- inch-hall horse weighing 57 pounds. She holds the Guinness Book of World Record for the world`s smallest horse. And here she is making an appearance at a hospital in Tampa. You should know that Thumbelina crisscrosses the country to help sick kids feel better. Thumbelina has her own "thumby mobile," basically, it`s a stable in a corner of an RV. We love Thumbelina, small but with a big heart. And that`s the showbiz video of the day.

HAMMER: Hey, I love Thumbelina. All right. Find me a family that loves tabloid headlines screaming their dirty laundry. Yes, it`s pretty hard to come by even in Hollywood. Well, take the Baldwin family. You know the brothers Alec, Daniel, Steven and Billy.

And tonight, Billy Baldwin is opening up like never before about his family. Wait until you hear him admit to me his family is, well, a little dysfunctional. And you`ll hear him give me an earful all about the media coverage that his family receives. We also got to talking about his great new show "Dirty Sexy Money" and how closely it parallels some of the behavior we now see in Hollywood.


HAMMER (on camera): I`m glad you were able to come in because I love this show, man. A lot of people are really excited about "Dirty Sexy Money."

BALDWIN: Yes. There`s a lot of buzz on that. In New York people will come up to you and tell you that they don`t like it. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) And so far the buzz has been, you know, overwhelmingly supportive and positive.

HAMMER: And it`s neat because you have sort of that Kennedy type of feeling with a little bit of the celebutante of - you know, I hate to use Paris Hilton as an example. But it is that sort of royalty family and it`s something that, you know, we certainly have seen on television before in various incarnations. But why is it, do you think, people are so obsessed with that idea of just powerful families with lots of money?

BALDWIN: Well, we live in a cult of celebrity. I mean, when Anna Nicole Smith died, I said to my friend I`m really saddened by her loss but it`s going to be a media blackout for me for like three days. I`m not turning on the TV for three days. Five weeks later, Wolf Blitzer was being interrupted in "THE SITUATION ROOM" to figure out what the DNA situation.

HAMMER: That would have been me.

BALDWIN: Exactly. And it went on for weeks. So we live in a culture that`s fascinated by this. And I used to describe the show when the pilot got picked up, I used to say it`s sort of a train wreck between the gravitas of the Kennedys and sort of the scandal. It`s like a train wreck between the Kennedys and Paris Hilton, as I used to describe it. .

HAMMER: Yes. And it totally hits the mark, though. I mean, it really is so much fun to watch. And it`s interesting being from the family that you`re from because the Baldwins are certainly royalty. We always called you New York royalty around here.

BALDWIN: Yes, the family - you know, one family is famous and wealthy and dysfunctional, and my family is famous, wealthy, and very dysfunctional, as it`s played out in the tabloid media.

HAMMER: How it has really played out in the tabloids. I mean you and your brothers, Stephen, Alec, Daniel, you`ve been in the business for years and you`ve each had your ups and downs. Daniel`s been very open recently about problems he`s had with addiction. I know you all rally together when that goes on. How does that affect the family?

BALDWIN: How does it affect the family? It`s never - it`s always hurtful when you turn on the television and you`re lying at home - I used to turn on the TV and I`d watch the TV and see all the stuff on Ted Kennedy and Bobby Kennedy and President Kennedy and Marilyn Monroe and all this tabloid scandal stuff and say, "I`m friends with the Kennedys."

I always wondered like, "I wonder if Bobby is sitting at home and he`s flipping the channels." And then all of a sudden it started happening to me. They call me the white sheep of the family.

HAMMER: Yes. You`ve managed to stay out of the tabloids.

BALDWIN: I`m Mr. Goody Two Shoes.

HAMMER: But you know, we don`t - and it`s funny Stephen and I have talked about it. He calls himself the black sheep of the family. He doesn`t need anybody else to put the label on that, but you have stayed out.

You have, and despite the fact you`re a big-time star in your own right, you`re married to a superstar musician, Chynna Phillips. And we see so many celebrities getting so much more attention for their extracurricular activities as opposed to their work, particularly the young Hollywood, with Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan and everything they`re doing. How does that cycle break?

BALDWIN: Well, I think, you know, I would love for the audience to pay more attention to certain types of stories. I remember I used to watch "On The Road With Charles Kuralt". And it was one of these really great shows on Sunday morning.

You know you always hear about the scandal and you hear about the breakup. And you hear about Alec and Kim. And you hear about Bruce and Demi. And once every five years, they do a token story like Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward. You know, I told my Pop like, they should do - Chynna and I have been together for 17 years. No one wants to do a story on the fact that Chynna and I have been together and finally they just did it.

She pitched an idea to "People" magazine. And they did a story on my career and on "Dirty Sexy Money" and they covered, you know, the relationship and the family. They took a picture of us together.

But, you know, I think the media doesn`t report on it because they feel that the American audiences are more interested in the salacious scandal and controversy and they`re drawn to the negativity. If people watch it, you guys would report on it. I just wish that the audiences would care about that stuff more.


HAMMER: You can catch Billy Baldwin on my favorite show this season "Dirty Sexy Money" Wednesday nights on ABC.

ANDERSON: Tonight you are going to hear what I have to say is a chilling revelation from Terri Irwin, the wife of the late Steve Irwin, the man known as "The Crocodile Hunter." Steve Irwin died last year during a freak accident when a stingray`s barb tail hit him while shooting an underwater documentary in Australia. He was only 44 years old. Now, Terri, who was married to Steve for 14 years, revealed to CNN`s Larry King that Steve had a sense that he might die young and openly talked about it.


LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Did he know he was going to pass on?

TERRI IRWIN, STEVE IRWIN`S WIDOW: You know, he had a real strange feeling about his own mortality and he spoke about it quite openly. And he would talk to me about what would happen if anything happened to him. And I always dismissed it but, you know, he felt because his mother had passed in an automobile accident that maybe it would be something like that. He felt it would be sudden, and he didn`t think he would live a long time.

KING: Due to his occupation?

IRWIN: No. Interestingly enough he didn`t really have those concerns about wildlife. He was more concerned about something like a mode of transportation or something coming awry in a distant country. It was never wildlife related.


ANDERSON: Really interesting. Well, Terri Irwin has just written a book about her life with Steve Irwin.

HAMMER: All right. Britney Spears in the event you happen to be watching right now, and I know you are, guess who wants to take you home? Well, what if I told you it was Julia Roberts? Yes, superstar Julia Roberts is feeling for Britney big time. And, Britney, you know, Julia just may be making up her guest house for you even as I`m delivering this message to you right now. From Julia to Britney. That`s coming up next.


HAMMER: All right, Brooke Anderson. I don`t know about you but I find it pretty hard to believe Julia Roberts is actually already 40 years old.

ANDERSON: I know. I can`t believe it. I remember when "Pretty Woman" came out - was that 16, 17 years ago? But yes, indeed, Julia has turned 40 and that moment has given Julia a different perspective on life. In the new issue of "Vanity Fair," Julia has opened up like never before. It`s an amazing interview. It`s about Julia`s life as a mother to 5-month-old son Henry and 3-year-old twins Hazel and Phinnaeus.

And get this, her maternal instincts go full blast for Hollywood disaster Britney Spears. About being a mother Julia says, quote, "My dream is to be a highly fulfilled and productive stay-at-home mom and wife. The highest high would be growing our food that I then make, and then composting and growing more. That kind of circle."

HAMMER: As you know, Brooke, Julia broke into Hollywood basically when she was just out of high school. And she can`t understand why anybody in their right mind would get into the business these days saying, quote, "I think it`s grotesque. It`s like a circus sideshow. I don`t know why anybody would ever want to go into show business these days. With all the different magazines and shows, it just wouldn`t be it, wouldn`t be worth it, and it is too fast."

ANDERSON: She became a superstar, A.J., at age 25. That`s the same age as Britney Spears is now. So here is where Julia gets all motherly to Britney saying, quote, "I see and hear what`s happening to Britney Spears and it`s all I can do not to move her into my guest house and say, `OK, this is how it`s going to be` and just take care of her."

HAMMER: See, Brooke, that sums it all up. That`s exactly why we here at SHOWBIZ TONIGHT think Julia is a true A-list star. You can read the complete Julia Roberts interview in the newest issue of "Vanity Fair." Find it on newsstands tomorrow.

ANDERSON: On Monday, after Oprah Winfrey`s emotional news conference following the arrest of a dorm matron at her school in South Africa, we asked to you vote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day. It was this, Oprah`s school scandal: Do you feel sorry for her? Forty-one percent of you tell us you do feel sorry for her while 59 percent of you say, no, you don`t.

Some of the e-mails that we received. David from Washington writes, "The people we should feel sorry for are the girls who were abused. Oprah`s a big girl. She can hold her own." And Rita from Colorado says, "It would seem Oprah has the resources to thoroughly and adequately screen the people she is employing. Someone in her organization really dropped the ball on this one." We appreciate your e-mails.

HAMMER: We do. And that is it for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Thanks a lot for watching. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.

ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. The latest from "CNN HEADLINE NEWS" coming up next. Take care.