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Showbiz Tonight
Should the Octu-mom`s Babies be Taken Away?; The Chimpanzee Attack; Judgment Day for the Octu-mom and the Chris Brown-Rihanna Drama
Aired February 18, 2009 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
A.J. HAMMER, CO-HOST: Now, on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, a battle over the octu- mom`s babies. The remarkable, brand-new action taken in the controversy over the octuplet mom. Tonight, the demand that her eight babies be taken away from her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": I think it is reflecting what a lot of people are thinking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Tonight, we are going one-on-one with the psychiatrist who has filed an explosive complaint against the octu-mom. Get ready for the headline-making interview you will see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
Tonight, judgment day for the octu-mom and in the Chris Brown-Rihanna drama. Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT convenes an extraordinary special summit of TV`s most popular judges to pass judgment on both explosive cases. Order in the court! It`s judgment day on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
Plus, SHOWBIZ "Caught on Tape." The chimpanzee attack. Tonight, the chilling and dramatic 911 call after a beloved chimp viciously attacks a woman.
TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts right now.
(MUSIC)
Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer, broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.
BROOKE ANDERSON, CO-HOST: Hi there, everyone. I`m Brooke Anderson, coming to you from Hollywood. And tonight, the battle for the babies.
HAMMER: That`s right, Brooke. Not one baby, not two babies, but all eight of the octu-mom`s babies. Tonight, the incredible brand-new battle to keep the octuplet mother from taking her babies home from the hospital. A well- known, high-profile psychiatrist is now taking dramatic action and taking on the octu-mom.
And here`s something that you will definitely want to see. I am going one-on-one with that psychiatrist right here, in the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Because, what this doctor is trying to do - it`s truly remarkable, and it`s making big news right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do you expect them to start coming home?
NADYA SULEMAN, OCTUPLET MOM: Probably really soon.
HAMMER (voice over): In this TMZ video, octu-mom, Nadya Suleman says her octuplets won`t be in the hospital much longer.
Not so fast, Nadya. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you some are trying to make sure Suleman`s famous eight newborns don`t go home with her at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CAROL LIEBERMAN, BEVERLY HILLS PSYCHIATRIST: My argument is that the children are in danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Radio talk show host and Beverly Hills psychiatrist, Carol Lieberman, has filed a complaint with L.A. County`s Department of Children and Family Services.
In her complaint obtained by SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, Lieberman says the octuplets should be taken away from Suleman because Suleman is not stable enough psychologically to be a mom to so many kids.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Hi, Mommy.
HAMMER: Lieberman`s complaint goes farther asking L.A. officials to look into removing at least some of the six kids Suleman already has, who we saw in this "Dateline NBC" video.
LIEBERMAN: She has a lot of deep psychological problems.
HAMMER: On HLN`s "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL" Lieberman says though she has never met Suleman, she has seen enough on TV to determine that Suleman is not psychologically equipped to be a mother of 14.
LIEBERMAN: There is no way that even a mother of the year would be able to have enough love and attention to divide themselves amongst these 14 children. What I think is the best solution is that each of these children, before they bond with her more and get taken to a home where they will be in danger - physical, psychological danger - that they each be given to a home where they can be the focus of the attention and get enough love and attention.
SERAFIN: This is obviously a drastic measure for the psychiatrist to make a complaint like this. But I think it`s reflecting what a lot are thinking.
HAMMER: "In Touch Weekly`s" Kim Serafin tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, Suleman, who is unemployed, single and lives with her parents, has inspired a ton of outrage for having 14 kids through in-vitro treatments without the means to care for them herself.
SERAFIN: Everyone seems to be lining up against her and saying, how is she going to care for these kids? She can barely care for her other six children.
SULEMAN: I very much look forward to the day I am not getting any kind of help with food stamps.
HAMMER: As we saw in Suleman`s interview with "Dateline NBC," Suleman seemed unfazed by her steep challenges.
ANN CURRY, ANCHOR, "DATELINE NBC": You don`t have a job. Your student loans have run out. So you`re saying there is no income coming in?
SULEMAN: At the moment, no. I know I will be able to afford them when I`m done with my schooling.
SERAFIN: There are just so many things coming out and continue to come out about this woman and her lifestyle that are making people wonder, is she equipped to really be a mom?
HAMMER: But "In Touch Weekly`s" Kim Serafin tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT that by making such a public third-party complaint against SULEMAN, Dr. Lieberman is earning questions about her own motives.
SERAFIN: There are other people that have said she hasn`t ever met Nadya. She`s someone who`s a media personality. So is she doing this to kind of get any press for herself?
HAMMER: Still, as the octuplets remain in the hospital, the ultimate question is, what will be best for America`s most famous super-sized family?
SERAFIN: There are actual babies involved who are going to grow up and are going to need a loving mother around them. I think that`s where people are starting to get concerned.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: Oh, you will definitely want to stay right where you are. A bit later, right here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, I am going one-on-one with that psychiatrist who`s asking for the kids to be taken away from the octu-mom. Her name is Carol Lieberman and she is right here, coming up in the headline-making interview you will see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
So, could America`s most famous mom actually lose custody of her kids? And is octu-mom really trying to be a celebrity?
With me tonight in New York, defense attorney Midwin Charles. Also in New York, it`s Lisa Bloom who is an anchor for the Legal Network`s "In Session."
As we mentioned, psychiatrist Carol Lieberman filed that complaint to have Suleman`s kids taken away. Now, she doesn`t know the octu-mom. Octu- mom is not her patient. But Lisa, do you think Lieberman`s filing even has a leg to stand on here?
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, "IN SESSION": I think she does make one good point, and that is we should have an investigation of Nadya Suleman and her household to see if she is really capable of taking care of eight additional preemies that she will be bringing home soon, because it doesn`t look good. It does look like there`s a risk of imminent harm.
But to say that those children should all be taken away right now without an investigation, without knowing her, without knowing who may be helping her - mom, dad, members of the church, members of the community. Does she have alternate sources of income? I think that is going way too far, way too soon.
HAMMER: Yes. Maybe it`s just a heated, knee-jerk reaction. I am not sure. But we are hearing it from a lot of people. Lieberman is certainly not the only person who is saying, "You know what? Suleman should lose custody of her kids."
In fact, the "Showbiz on Call" phone lines have truly been inundated with calls about that very subject. Sherrie from West Virginia, not at all shy about how she feels about octu-mom. Listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SHERRIE, CALLER FROM WEST VIRGINIA: The octu-mom is an exploitative, selfish, egotistical monster, whose children need, all 14, to be placed in foster homes where they can get some care. This woman is disturbed.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HAMMER: All right. Sherrie, thank you for your call. Some strong words there, Midwin. Why do you think so many people automatically go to that place, you know, take the kids away. Should it be that cut and dry, or as Lisa said, not really?
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree with Lisa. It shouldn`t be that cut and dry. We certainly don`t want to live in a society where people just determine just from looking on TV shows that someone is an unfit mother.
I mean, there are plenty of mothers who are single, mothers and poor, and do a good job of raising their kids. I think it is extraordinarily too premature. We don`t know all the facts. No one has gone in and interviewed this woman. And yet they`re filing lawsuits, trying to get the children to even go home and bond with her. I think it`s ridiculous, actually.
HAMMER: Well, listen to this shocking new development. TMZ now reporting Nadya Suleman and her 14 kids actually could soon be homeless. Now, Suleman`s mother owns the house where octu-mom has been living. She is said to be 10 months behind on her mortgage and could actually lose her house soon.
So Lisa, what about this? Could the hospital or, I guess, the authorities in this case, look at the situation and say, "Hey, you know what? No way you are taking home these eight newborns if there is any chance you are going to lose your house"?
BLOOM: Yes, they could do that. I mean, look, you have to be able to provide for your children. And what Suleman did that was irresponsible was to intentionally, through the use of science, bring eight children into this world that she so clearly can`t care for.
Now, the babies are already here, so we have to take care of them. I think the community, unfortunately. has to step up. We may not like her. We may not like the choices that she has made. But her local church, her community, social services, has to step in and give her support, give her parenting classes - yes, give her more food stamps, give her what she needs so the babies are cared for.
And hopefully, the family, which isn`t just Nadya and the kids, but also her mother, her extended family. Hopefully, they can stay together as a family with support, because I think that would be best for all of them.
HAMMER: Well, doing that - very difficult even more so when you`re under the glare of the very bright spotlight. Everybody is wondering about her motivations. And now, octu-mom is saying she is not a celebrity, doesn`t want to be a celebrity.
But our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT viewers completely disagree. We asked on air and online in our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day, this - "Octuplet Mom: Is she trying to be a celebrity?"
And take a look at these results. Overwhelming - 93 percent said yes, she is trying to be a celebrity. Only seven percent said no.
Midwin, off to you. Is there any denying that octu-mom is at least, or was at least, looking for some fame out of this situation?
CHARLES: I actually don`t think she stepped into this looking for fame. If that were the case, we would have known about the fact she was carrying these eight babies nine months ago. She would have had baby watch cameras following her all along. There would have been a reality show.
I mean, I really think that she is a victim here of the way the media is treating her to a certain extent. I mean, I`m not at all saying that what she has done was not irresponsible.
However, the reason why so many people think she is trying to be a celebrity is because we made her a celebrity. We are talking about her incessantly on and on and on.
BLOOM: Yes. She`s pulling her hood up. She`s running from the cameras ...
CHARLES: Exactly.
BLOOM: ... trying to hide.
CHARLES: Exactly. She`s not trying to get a talk show.
HAMMER: Yes.
CHARLES: I mean, people are offering her these things. And so that says a lot about us as a society.
HAMMER: Well, that little piece of video, just another surreal moment in this entire story. Midwin Charles, Lisa Bloom, I thank you both.
CHARLES: Thank you.
BLOOM: Thank you.
HAMMER: Now, let`s turn it over to you. Our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day is this - "Octuplet Mom: Do you have sympathy for her?" Vote at CNN.com/ShowbizTonight or E-mail showbiztonight@cnn.com.
Brooke, you won`t want to miss this. And you won`t, if you stay right where you are. A blockbuster interview is coming up.
ANDERSON: We`ve got it, A.J. We`re One-on-one with the woman who is demanding that the octuplet mom`s babies be take any way from her. The psychiatrist who has filed an explosive complaint against the octu-mom is right here, coming up in the headline making interview you will see on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
HAMMER: Plus, it is judgment day for the octu-mom, and the Chris Brown- Rihanna drama. We are convening a truly extraordinary summit TV`s most popular judges. And they`re going to weigh in on both big cases. You don`t want to miss that.
Also this -
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: What is the problem?
SANDRA HEROLD, OWNER OF TRAVIS, THE CHIMPANZEE: He is killing my friend!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: Who is killing your friend?
HEROLD: My chimpanzee!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ANDERSON: A horrifying, heartbreaking story caught on tape. A woman calls 911 after her beloved pet chimpanzee attacks her best friend. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.
Now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.
(CAPTION READS: If Heath Ledger wins Oscar, award will go to daughter Matilda. Judge refuses to dismiss the sex case against Roman Polanski.)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: What is the problem?
HEROLD: He is killing my friend!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: Who is killing your friend?
HEROLD: My chimpanzee!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: Oh, your chimpanzee is killing your friend.
HEROLD: Yes. He ripped her apart. Hurry up! Hurry up, please!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: There is someone on the way.
HEROLD: With guns, please. Shoot him!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: What is the monkey doing? Tell me what the monkey ...
HEROLD: He ripped her face off!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE 911 OPERATOR: He ripped her face off?
HEROLD: He tried ... He`s trying to attack me! Please, please!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HAMMER: Caught on tape. A woman calls 911 as her pet chimpanzee attacks her best friend.
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
Tonight, this is just terrible. A heartbreaking, horrifying story caught on tape. You just heard the 911 call of a woman in Connecticut whose beloved pet chimpanzee Travis attacked her best friend.
Well, the woman thought of 14-year-old Travis as her son. He could eat at the table, use the toilet, brush his teeth and even dress and bathe himself. Travis has even starred in several TV commercials - Old Navy and Coca Cola among them.
Police say before Travis attacked his owner`s best friend, he had been agitated and she gave him Xanax. Well, when he attacked the friend, his owner frantically called 911 and took action as told the "Today" show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEROLD: I saw what was going on and I hollered at him. And he was just grabbing her. And then I went and got the shovel. And I was trying to, you know, hit him with the shovel to stop it. It wasn`t working. So I went and I had to get a knife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You stabbed him?
HEROLD: I had to. He looked at me like, "Mom what did you do?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Just heartbreaking. Now, when police arrived, the chimp went after them. And an officer shot and killed him. The woman he attacked is in critical condition with massive injuries. Police say they`re actually looking into the possibility of criminal charges against the owner.
ANDERSON: Time now for the "SHOWBIZ Obama Watch." Tonight, the designer who First Lady Michelle Obama has catapulted into the spotlight. Jason Wu designed the beautiful white gown Michelle Obama wore at the inauguration. And that dress made him a household name.
Now, it is his first fashion week since he burst on to the scene. So what is life like now for the 26-year-old designer?
Here`s CNN`s Alina Cho for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): You may not recognize the clothes. You may not know his face. But by now, you definitely know his name. Jason who? No, Jason Wu, the designer of "the" dress.
(on camera): Your dress is going to be in the Smithsonian?
JASON WU, DESIGNER: That is pretty incredible. I am still pinching myself because it is like, so surreal. I can`t believe this all happened, you know.
CHO (voice over): Pre-inauguration, Jason Wu was a relative unknown. Today, the 26-year-old designer is fashion`s hottest star.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
WU: Hi. How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re the man of the hour.
CHO: At his runway show, it is standing room only. His representatives say sales calls are triple what they were a year ago. And retailers are clamoring to carry his clothes.
Yet, Wu, careful not to grow too fast, is selling to just one store in most cities. In New York, it`s Bergdorf Goodman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The phones are ringing. People are coming in to see what this kid is all about.
CHO: This kid was born in Taiwan and came to the U.S. with his parents at an early age, parents who sacrificed everything for their son, a self- proclaimed fashion nerd who says he knew at age five this was his calling.
(on camera): I know how Asian parents are. They may say doctor, lawyer, right?
WU: Doctor, lawyer. And this is not doctor, lawyer. This is painting and drawing and designing.
CHO (voice over): Celebrity status - that changed, too.
WU: The truck driver rolled down his window and said, "You are the guy that designed Michelle Obama`s dress. I said, "Wow. Trucker knows who I am. I made it. I am very happy."
CHO: And to think that Wu`s first job in fashion, designer of Barbie clothes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s designing now for big Barbies.
CHO: Including the first lady, again, this time on the new cover of "Vogue," wearing a dress by Wu. Once again, he had no idea.
WU: I saw it online. And I said, "Oh my god. I think I recognize that dress. I think I made it."
CHO: So what does Jason Wu do in his down time?
(on camera): Can you tell me one thing about Jason Wu that is going to surprise CNN viewers?
WU: I like to bake apple pie, the most American thing you can get.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: That was CNN`s Alina Cho for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
HAMMER: But Brooke, if you paying attention to what is going on, the "Showbiz on Call" phone lines in overload mode now, with people calling in about the octuplet mom?
ANDERSON: Yes, no kidding, A.J., The SHOWBIZ TONIGHT switchboard operators, working overtime, handling all of these calls. We`ve got a call into "Showbiz on Call" from Danielle in Pennsylvania, who is angry about the octu-mom`s money situation.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DANIELLE, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: She was getting $500 a week in food stamps before. How many food stamps is she going to be getting now? I mean, she is getting enough food stamps to feed like five California families a month. It is kind of a travesty, don`t you think?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Thanks, Danielle. And we also heard from Dina calling into "Showbiz on Call." She thinks everybody is being too hard on the octuplet mom, especially the criticism of how she is getting manicures.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DINA, CALLER: Big deal, she got her nails done. Doesn`t she deserve to have her nails done, going through birth? And these little babies - she looks like she really loves them. And why can`t our country all chip in and help? What`s the big deal? You`ve got to love a woman who loves children.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Thank you for that, Dina. Call us at "Showbiz on Call." Let us know what you think about this or anything else that is on your mind. The "Showbiz on Call" phone lines are open around the clock, the number, 1-888- SBT-BUZZ; 1-888-728-2899. Simply leave a voicemail. We will play some of your calls right here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
And your calls to "Showbiz on Call" are also now online. That`s on our homepage - check them out at CNN.com/ShowbizTonight.
Hey, A.J., there is remarkable brand-new - a remarkable brand-new bombshell in the controversy over the octuplet mom.
HAMMER: Yes, Brooke. You`re talking about the demand that her eight babies be taken away from her. Now, we are going one-on-one with the psychiatrist who has filed really an explosive complaint against the octu- mom. That is coming up in the headline-making interview you will see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
ANDERSON: Plus, it is judgment day for the octu-mom and the Chris Brown- Rihanna drama. We`re convening an extraordinary summit of TV`s most popular judges to weigh in on both big cases. You don`t want to miss that.
HAMMER: And date night for John Mayer and Jennifer Aniston. You know, they could be showing up on a major red carpet together. I am talking about as major as it gets. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.
ANDERSON: And now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.
(CAPTION READS: Jennifer Hudson and Robin Thicke co-headline six-week U.S. tour. Dolly Parton will not be in new "Hannah Montana" movie. Parton`s recurring role in "Hannah Montana" didn`t make the film script.)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CAPTION READS: Coldplay, Duffy lead British music`s Brit Award nominations with four each.)
HAMMER: More stories from the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" coming up.
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood with some more stories that are making news right now.
HAMMER: Well, this guy, Jerry Springer, has a brand-new gig, live on stage. Springer is going to star in the musical "Chicago" in London. Now, for six weeks, Springer will be playing Billy Flynn - that`s the role that Richard Gere played in the movie.
And check this out. It`s going to be sort of a homecoming for Springer. Producers of the musical say he was born in a London subway station during World War II. And his family emigrated to the United States when he was five.
ANDERSON: John Mayer and Jennifer Aniston may be getting ready for a big date on Oscar night. Now, Jennifer hasn`t officially confirmed she is going to the Oscars. But John is talking about it. He told the Web site, "PopSugar.com" that it is going to be his first Oscars and his first time being an Oscar boyfriend.
If they do show up on the red carpet, it will be after a whirlwind couple of weeks. John took Jennifer to the Bahamas for Valentine`s Day and to celebrate her 40th birthday.
And of course, Sunday night is much more than a date night. All of Hollywood is getting ready for the Oscars. I got to sit down poolside with many of this year`s nominees at the Oscar luncheon.
One of the stars I talked to, Marisa Tomei, who`s nominated for best supporting actor for her gritty and moving performance in "The Wrestler." This is Marisa`s third nomination. And we talked about what it was like working with Mickey Rourke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARISA TOMEI, ACTRESS: Mickey is just 100 percent in that character. When I walk on set, I didn`t even know. I really, really, really, truly mean - I did not see him in the sea of people. I thought that he was one of the body builders who had come to support "The Wrestler."
And he just - he was 100 percent that character. It was so easy to play with him because he was always right there in his eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: We want to remind you to tune in to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on Oscar night for "Hollywood`s Gold Rush." We will be right there at the Oscars with all the big stars, the big stories, the big surprises. That`s "Hollywood`s Gold Rush," live this Sunday at 11:00 p.m. Eastern right here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
HAMMER: And wow, is it going to be a big time. Now, the SHOWBIZ lineup. Here is what is coming up bottom of the hour on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
A bombshell in the octu-mom case. The psychiatrist asking for her kids to be taken away is right here. It is the interview you will see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
Also, it`s judgment day. Yes, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT convenes an extraordinary panel of TV`s most popular judges to weigh in on the octu-mom case and Chris Brown-Rihanna drama.
And big controversy over a cartoon about President Obama and a chimpanzee. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.
And now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.
(CAPTION READS: Governor Schwarzenegger to shoot a scene for new Stallone film. Rachel Bilson and Hayden Christensen are engaged.)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Now, on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, will the octuplet mom lose her kids? Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is going one-on-one with the psychiatrist who has filed an explosive complaint against the octuplet mom to take her eight babies away. It`s the headline-making interview you will see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
Plus, judgment day for the octu-mom. TV`s biggest judges are right here to pass judgment on her. Also, judging the Chris Brown-Rihanna drama. Will Brown`s alleged attack on Rihanna go to trial? Will Rihanna cooperate with the DA? Tonight, it`s a SHOWBIZ TONIGHT special TV judge summit.
Plus more stories breaking from the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker.
TV`s most provocative entertainment news show continues right now.
(MUSIC)
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. It is 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer, broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.
And I`m Brooke Anderson, coming to you tonight from Hollywood. And tonight, the battle for the babies.
HAMMER: Yes. Big battle, Brooke. Right now, in the interview only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, the psychiatrist at the center of the incredible new battle to keep the octuplet mom from taking her newborn babies home from the hospital.
Dr. Carol Lieberman who is at the center of this firestorm is with us tonight. Let me get you up to speed right now.
Octuplet mom Nadya Suleman`s eight babies are still in the hospital, but they are at the center of a heated debate that has been brewing since we first learned that Suleman was already mom to six kids at home, unemployed and living with her parents.
Now Dr. Lieberman has filed an explosive complaint with the Child Protective Services Agency in California against Suleman. So let me get right to it.
Joining me from Hollywood, Dr. Carol Lieberman. I do appreciate you being here, Dr. Lieberman.
And I`ve got your complaint right here. Wow. You list a whopping 24 reasons why octu-mom is an unfit mother. You`re suggesting, flat-out, the kids be adopted straight from the hospital.
Now, I realize you don`t know her except for what you have read and heard as all of us have. So why are you making this your mission? Why are you going after her?
DR. CAROL LIEBERMAN, BEVERLY HILLS PSYCHIATRIST: Well, in California, as a psychiatrist, I am a mandated reporter, meaning that I have an obligation to report suspected cases of child abuse.
And I - and there are four types of child abuse - sexual, physical, emotional, and by neglect. And what I am saying is that Nadya has already abused her children, her children that she has, emotionally and by neglect because she has been neglecting them and abusing them emotionally because they are feeling as though they are not enough.
She had had to go out and get eight more. And, I`m any very concerned about the eight children coming home into a situation that will put them in danger, physical danger and psychological danger.
HAMMER: Yes. I think a lot of people are sharing that. I just want to get to a couple points you make in your complaint.
LIEBERMAN: Sure, sure.
HAMMER: Really, there are a few things that struck out to me. One in particular, you wrote, quote, "Animals have litters. They don`t exert conscious control over the number of babies they have. It is not psychologically nor physically possible to provide sufficient and love and attention to the litter that Ms. Suleman has chosen to deliver."
Now, separate from the fact that you referred to the babies as a litter, Dr. Lieberman, why not at least give Nadya a fair shot, perhaps, first at taking care of the kids?
LIEBERMAN: Well, you know - because the kids aren`t in a sense - they aren`t animals. You know, they - this isn`t an experiment. Preemies, in particular, are known to be more vulnerable to abuse and more vulnerable to physical and psychological problems.
So we really can`t just have an experiment here. And you know it is not that I filed this against Nadya. To tell you the truth, it is that I feel like I am helping her, saving her from herself. Because I think about now, it`s dawning on her, that she might not get the reality show.
She might not get all the products to endorse and so on. She might not - get all of this media attention forever. And she is beginning, I think, to realize, "Uh-oh, what am I going to do with these 14 kids?"
HAMMER: Well, I have heard you say before, where not even a super-mom could give all of these kids all the attention that they need. And she thinks she is up for the task though.
When octu-mom sat down with NBC`s Ann Curry - she did that interview for "Dateline" and she said, "You know what? The Department of Children and Family Services - they are welcome to come in take a look at my house and my situation anytime." Let`s roll that.
NADYA SULEMAN, OCTU-MOM: They can if they want. They can come visit, any kind of Child Protective Service can come and visit anytime they want. When they see the interaction I have with my children and the love that is there because I am definitely getting help and having help. I am getting - receiving help already.
So, yes, there is - this takes - what is it? It takes a village to raise a child. Well, this will take a lot of villages.
HAMMER: A lot of villages. OK. So Dr. Lieberman, she says, "Hey, I am open to a visit." From what we know - what do you think? If Child Services took her up on her offer, really showed up at her house, do you really believe that they would say, "You know what? Don`t let those eight babies go home with her"?
LIEBERMAN: Well, I am not really sure. You know, that is up to them. All I can do is try to draw their attention to it and get them to go to her house and do their examination, do their assessment.
I mean I am the first one to say I have not personally examined her. I would love to do that. I would love to put her on my couch and talk to her about her unconscious reasons for having all these babies.
And I think maybe I could help her see that this is really fulfilling - one of the things is she talked about, in that interview, that she didn`t get enough love and attention from her mother. And so she wanted to form a bond with her own children to get that. Well that`s not the reason to have children. You need to be giving the love, not having a whole bunch of children to get the love.
HAMMER: Right. Well, Dr. Carol Lieberman, we will all be anxiously waiting to see if your complaint has any impact on whether or not these babies do go home with the octuplet mom.
Dr. Carol Lieberman, I do appreciate you joining us tonight.
LIEBERMAN: Thank you.
HAMMER: So how is all of this going to play out? Well, tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is convening truly an extraordinary special summit of TV`s most popular judges to judge the explosive case.
Joining me tonight in New York is Judge Greg Mathis. You know him from his smash hit show, "Judge Mathis." And in Hollywood tonight, it is Judge Christina Perez. She rules the bench on her spectacular hit show, "Christina`s Court." Judges, your honors, I appreciate you being here tonight.
We just heard from Dr. Lieberman, as you heard, who filed this complaint against the octuplet mom to prevent her from taking home the eight babies from the hospital.
Judge Christina, over to you first. What do you think? Could that actually happen because of this complaint?
JUDGE CHRISTINA PEREZ, HOST, "CHRISTINA`S COURT": Well, you know - listen, as shocked as we all are of the situation, we need to let her - we need to give her a chance to be a mom. We need to see how she is going to work it out. We need to see what is going to happen, who is going to help her, if her mom is going to help her. We need to let it play out first.
I, as a mother myself, I don`t know how I as a single mother - I am not a single mother - but how I could take care of 14 kids. That is something that is incomprehensible. But we need to give her that chance.
As much as I personally believe, what I believe doesn`t really matter. The system is there to protect these children. And it will be - we will have to look at what is in the best interest of these children. And we have to give her the right to take care of her kids before we take that away.
HAMMER: Well, part of that system and this coming straight from Dr. Lieberman a moment ago. She had in her mind, a professional responsibility to come in, file this complaint and say something about it to the authorities. Judge Mathis, what is your judgment here? Could this complaint make a difference?
JUDGE GREG MATHIS, HOST, "JUDGE MATHIS": Well, in order to remove children from the parents, you have to prove that there is an imminent danger of abuse or neglect. But I think key can get around that in this case because this woman has shown the nation that she is delusional, in my opinion.
And being delusional is a psychiatric problem. And I think that she should be recommended for psychiatric analysis and if proven to be delusional that certainly is a risk of harm or abuse or neglect to her children. And that would be - allow the removal.
HAMMER: Well, I think another risk that a lot of people are very concerned about here for these kids are the circumstances that they may or now, may not be coming home to. Because there`s another brand-new development today. TMZ got a hold of some documents that they say show that the house that the octu-mom has been living in with her parents and her six other kids - that house is on the auction block. It faces foreclosure and that`s because, apparently, they haven`t paid the mortgage in months.
So Judge Christina, let me ask you this. This really adds to the fact that she has no job. She has no regular income. So based on what we know to date, what would be your ruling here if there is no house to go home to?
PEREZ: And the thing is that I would have to look at the children. I would have to look at the state that they`re going to be in, how is she going to care for them. I mean, this has struck a chord in everybody in America because she is a single mom.
Is she being irresponsible? The audacity to think she can take care of 14 children. I think this is what is affecting us. But yes, if you`re looking at a child, obviously, in order to take any right away from any biological parent or any parent, you have to look at the condition these children are in. Are they going to suffer? Are they going to be taken care of?
We need to see that and we need that evidence before we take it away, before we take the right away. You know, it is a fine - it`s a crazy situation. This woman clearly is not your average woman ...
HAMMER: Oh, no.
PEREZ: ... or your average mother. And it is - it`s sad, and the victims are these 14 kids. What`s going to end it there.
HAMMER: We`ve got to end it there. Judge Mathis, Judge Christina Perez, I really appreciate you weighing in on the octu-mom.
I`d like you to stay right where you are because we have another case on our docket for you, guys. Chris Brown`s alleged attack on Rihanna.
ANDERSON: Will Rihanna need to cooperate with the district attorney? Tonight, it`s the SHOWBIZ special summit of TV judges judging the Chris Brown-Rihanna drama, next.
And also this -
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The issue here is the historic racial stereotype of calling African-Americans monkeys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Brand-new outrage over a cartoon. Does it link President Obama to the chimpanzee that mauled a woman? And is the cartoon a swipe at African- Americans?
ANDERSON: And it`s "Hollywood`s Gold Rush." I`m so excited. We`re just a few days away from the Oscars and SHOWBIZ TONIGHT special live coverage. Tonight, we`re getting the nominees to reveal the secrets of what they might wear on the red carpet. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.
HAMMER: And now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.
(CAPTION READS: Usher`s wife out of hospital after suffering cardiac arrest before plastic surgery. Don Johnson suing producers of `90s series "Nash Bridges" for millions in profits.)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood.
Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT judgment day continues as TV`s most famous judges sound off on the Rihanna-Chris Brown drama. Chris Brown is due in court before a judge in just a matter of days for allegedly attacking his girlfriend, Rihanna. We`ve got the best legal minds on television on this shocking case.
With me now from New York tonight is Judge Greg Mathis. You know him best from his hit show "Judge Mathis." And in Hollywood tonight, Judge Christina Perez. She rules the bench on her hit show, "Christina`s Court."
Judge Mathis, Judge Perez, I want to start with what we know so far with the SHOWBIZ news line.
Chris Brown turned himself in February 8th, the night of the Grammies and was booked on suspicion of making a criminal threat. That is a felony. The case goes to the district attorney. But then, on February 10th, the DA sent it back to the police for further investigation.
Chris Brown is due in court on March 5th. Now, both Chris Brown and Rihanna have reportedly been cooperating with police here.
Judge Perez, what would you think the LAPD is doing to make their case?
PEREZ: Well, you know, I think they have to examine - the basic things they`re going to have to examine is the extent of injury on the victim, in this case, Rihanna. I think that`s going to be really important for them. They`re also going to have to look at - does he have any priors? Chris Brown - has he done this before?
But I think the significance will be the extent of her injuries because that will allow them to define what charge he will be - he`ll be charged with. Or what crime he`ll be charged with.
ANDERSON: OK. Yes, Chris Brown pretty much had a squeaky-clean image prior to this. Judge Mathis, from what we only know so far, how worried should Chris Brown be?
MATHIS: Well, certainly, he should be worried about the charge that he is already facing, which is a felony punishable by prison. But he should be concerned about additional charges.
For example, it`s interesting that he wasn`t charged with assault and battery or, indeed, felonious assault, which might give us some insight into what`s going on behind the scenes because he is not being charged with assaulting her or battering her. It is only threatening to do so.
So that`s interesting that it hasn`t occurred. Perhaps that`s why they want more investigation to determine whether they can pursue such additional charges.
ANDERSON: OK. Well, he has hired high-profile celebrity attorney Mark Geragos. Geragos has, of course, defended the likes of Michael Jackson, Wynona Ryder. Chris Brown has now publicly apologized saying he was, quote, "sorry and saddened about the incident."
Judge Perez, does it seem to you that Chris Brown is trying to pave the way for a plea deal or bracing himself for what could be an ugly public trial?
PEREZ: Well, you know what? I think it is a little bit of both. Quite honestly, I think his reputation, his career is at stake. So what else can he do but apologize? And he is a public person. I think that`s what`s really going to be very important for him.
But also, is he trying to show remorse so when he does go to court, and a judge sees that. You know, remorse is great. It`s the first step in the process. But it still does not justify what happened.
And I think that is really important for us to realize. It does not justify what happened. It is a step. It shows us that our actions have consequences. And we have to be accountable for those consequences. So, at least, he is in the right direction.
But how sincere is this apology? And we can go into an examining the words, what his dad said, what he said. For me it`s kind of - it`s an admission and it`s a denial at the same time. So it will be very interesting to see what happens with this.
MATHIS: Well, I`m not sure -
ANDERSON: Judge Mathis, what do you think? Go ahead.
MATHIS: Yes. I am not sure I would conclude it is an admission. I think that it was primarily an opportunity to apologize to both his fans and to her and her family. You know, an apology, in that regard, doesn`t mean he is confessing to what he is accused of.
He could be apologizing for the public display that has come from this. He could be apologizing for provoking it, for pushing her. We don`t know what he is admitting to having done. So -
ANDERSON: Yes.
PEREZ: Well, exactly. We don`t know what he has been doing. But at least he - what he - in my opinion, what his dad has done also is coming out and said, "Look, my son is very remorseful." His father almost in a way indirectly admits that he did something and blames it on a shortcoming of his son.
You know, being violent is not a shortcoming. It doesn`t matter who you are. And there is a great lesson in all of this if we can do anything positive.
ANDERSON: Yes. Something that wasn`t right - you are right, even though he wasn`t quite specific. And I want to talk about Rihanna for just a second. As we said, there are reports that she is cooperating with police.
Judge Perez, how much influence will Rihanna have on whether or not the DA decides to go forward with more charges or whether or not this case goes to trial? Very quickly.
PEREZ: Well, very quickly. In this case, it`s always important. Domestic violence happens behind closed doors. It`s always great to get the cooperation of the victim. In this case, if she does not want to cooperate, we know she was stopped. We know they called the police. We know the police came on the scene. We know she went to the hospital.
So there is enough independent and other witness testimony that will help the police establish a case against Chris Brown if that`s what they decide to do.
ANDERSON: And make their decision.
PEREZ: Exactly.
MATHIS: I think it is enough to establish a case. But I think it would be very difficult to win a case at trial without the complaining witness. Often, in cases such as this, we see the woman not wanting to testify because of the love and endearment that they have. But the police do proceed and indeed they should.
ANDERSON: Judge Greg Mathis, Judge Christina Perez, we`ve got to go. Thank you both for your insight. We appreciate you being here.
MATHIS: Thank you.
HAMMER: Well, tonight, there`s brand-new controversy involving a "New York Post" cartoon and the chimp we were telling you about earlier, the one that brutally mauled a woman and had to be shot. There are some who think the cartoon compares President Obama to that chimp and it could be racist.
Take a look at this. In the cartoon, you see two police officers. They`re standing over the body of a chimpanzee that they just shot referencing the mauling of a Connecticut woman by her friend`s pet chimp. Well, police had to kill the chimp.
And in the cartoon, one of the officers tells the other, quote, "They will have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill."
So in an interview on CNN, civil rights Al Sharpton says he is outraged by this cartoon.
AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: The issue here is there`s a historic racial stereotype of calling African-Americans monkeys. They`re using, rewriting this economic stimulus package which is a specific act by a specific person that they are now associating as a chimp or a monkey. I mean, there is no way - other way to interpret it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Well, "The New York Post" cartoonist tells CNN that the controversy is quote, "absolutely friggin` ridiculous."
ANDERSON: Straight ahead, "Hollywood`s Gold Rush" - Hollywood`s biggest night, just a few days away. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT will be right there, live. I`m talking about the Oscars this Sunday.
Next, I got the nominees to reveal their answers to one of the biggest questions out there. What are they going to wear? This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.
HAMMER: And now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.
(CAPTION READS: 1990s rap star MC Hammer to star in A & E reality show, "Hammertime." Former TV host Gary Collins charged with drunken driving. Collins has two previous drunken driving convictions.)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: It is time now for "Hollywood`s Gold Rush." The Oscars are this Sunday. And tonight, we`re revealing the secrets of what the biggest stars may be wearing come Oscar night.
At the nominees` luncheon, we got the nominees to open up with the favorite Hollywood styles and what we could see them in on the red carpet.
Best supporting actress nominee Viola Davis says she loves the old Hollywood glamour look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIOLA DAVIS, BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS NOMINEE, "DOUBT": I`ll never fit. I never know what is hip. And I`m someone who is about 10 years behind the time. So I like the way the women dressed back then because it`s so feminine and so body-figuring, body-flattering for women who have a fuller figures like myself. And that`s what I`m going for.
AMY ADAMS, BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS NOMINEE, "DOUBT": There`s a lot of women who sort of have that Katherine Hepburn - the Grace Kelly, the class, the Audrey Hepburn. They`re so many women like that from the past - iconic beauties.
But as far as mine, I really don`t know yet what I`m - you know, I don`t even know what my style is. I`d like to sort of - just sort of try new things and new colors.
FRANK LANGELLA, BEST ACTOR NOMINEE, "FROST/NIXON": Cary Grant - that period where they wore these beautifully shaped jackets and coats, when men really thought about it and were dressed beautifully and elegantly and classically and simply.
Alana Dietrich(ph) said a man should only dress in black, white, or gray, and I agree with her.
ANDERSON: Very classic look.
LANGELLA: It`s simple and it never looks bad.
ANDERSON: So what will you be wearing?
LANGELLA: Black and white.
ANDERSON: Very nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Frank really made me laugh. Hey, A.J., here`s a joke for you. What is black and white and red all over?
HAMMER: I`m frightened, Brooke. What?
ANDERSON: Frank Langella on the Oscar`s red carpets.
HAMMER: Nice.
ANDERSON: Not very original. Sorry. Anyway, we will find out if Frank went with the black and white and what all the other stars wore on Sunday.
Join us live at the Oscars for the special edition of SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, Sunday, 11:00 p.m. Eastern. We`re the only entertainment news show there, live.
HAMMER: On Tuesday, we asked to you vote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day - "Octuplet Mom: Is she trying to be a celebrity?" One sided here, 93 percent yes; seven percent no.
Let me read one E-mail from Matt in Pennsylvania who writes, "Of course she wants to be a celebrity and the media are giving her exactly what she wants."
Well, we are TV`s most provocative entertainment news show. We`re, of course, covering these provocative stories.
That`s it for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. Don`t forget, you can catch SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on the 11:00s - 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, and in the morning, 11:00 a.m. Eastern on HLN.
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