Return to Transcripts main page
Showbiz Tonight
Miss USA Gay Marriage Controversy Explodes; Should Susan Boyle Get a Makeover?; Shaheen Jafargholi: The Newest Singing Sensation; Disney`s First Black Princess; Shirtless Obama on Magazine Cover
Aired April 21, 2009 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
A.J HAMMER, CO-HOST: Now, on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, the Miss USA gay marriage controversy explodes. Tonight, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT goes one on one with the pageant judge who asked Miss California about same-sex marriage. Was Perez Hilton`s question out of line? And did Miss California`s opposition to gay marriage really cost her the crown?
Plus, for the first time, Miss California speaks out about the raging debate. Does she have any regrets?
Susan Boyle`s brand-new competition.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
Tonight, the amazing young singer who could knock Susan off her YouTube singing throne. Plus, tonight, your overwhelming response - do you think Susan should get a makeover?
And the surprising connection between a groundbreaking new Disney movie and the Obamas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One day, you can be a princess. One day, you`re going to first lady.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts right now.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer, broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.
BROOKE ANDERSON, CO-HOST: Hi there, everyone. I`m Brooke Anderson, coming to you from Hollywood. And tonight, the Miss USA gay marriage outrage.
HAMMER: Yes. Brooke, who would have ever thought that the Miss USA pageant would set the stage for all-out fury over same-sex marriage? Well, tonight, the beauty and the blogger behind all the outrage are speaking out. In fact, I`m going one on one with the Miss USA judge and star blogger, Perez Hilton, and ask him was he out of line to ask Miss California about gay marriage?
But, first, did Miss California`s answer to his controversial question really cost her the crown? The ugly battle over Miss USA is making big news right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): It is one of the most controversial issues the country faces right now. And now, the most visible war over gay marriage is being fought by a beauty queen on one side -
CARRIE PREJEAN, MISS USA CONTESTANT: It`s not about being politically correct. For me, it was being biblically correct.
HAMMER: And the self-styled queen of all media on the other.
PEREZ HILTON, MISS USA JUDGE AND STAR BLOGGER: Miss California lost because she`s a dumb (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
HAMMER: SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you a nasty and personal back-and-forth over gay marriage has erupted since celebrity blogger Perez Hilton, a judge on Sunday`s Miss USA asked Miss California, Carrie Prejean, about gay marriage.
PEREZ HILTON: Vermont recently became the fourth state to legalize same- sex marriage. Do you think every state should follow suit? Why or why not?
PREJEAN: In my country and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there. But that`s how I was raised and that`s how I think that it should be - between a man and a woman.
JO PIAZZA, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: It was probably the most controversial questions ever asked at a beauty pageant.
HAMMER: When it was all over, Prejean was the runner-up. Both she and Hilton say that if it weren`t for that controversial question, Prejean would be Miss USA right now and that`s the last thing they had agreed on.
PEREZ HILTON: She gave an awful, awful answer which alienated so many people.
HAMMER: Just after the pageant, Perez Hilton slams her in his video blog.
PEREZ HILTON: If that girl would have won Miss USA - California, I would have gone up on stage, I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you not - I would have gone up on that stage and snapped that crown off her head and ran out the door.
ALICIA QUARLES, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS: Perez is not holding punches. And he called her the C-word. He`s been very sharp about it.
HAMMER: On "LARRY KING LIVE," Hilton, who says he cleared his question with the pageant organizers beforehand, said that his problem wasn`t with what Prejean had said but how she said it.
PEREZ: I didn`t disagree with her not believing in the right for gays and lesbians to be equal under the law. I disagree with how she answered the question because Miss USA should be all inclusive. She should be my Miss USA. And when she answered the question that way, it was instantly divisive and alienated gays and lesbians and friends and supporters.
PREJEAN: I have spoken from my heart, from my beliefs and for my God.
HAMMER: On the "Today" show, Prejean expressed she didn`t mean to offend. But she said she didn`t want to answer in the way what she called the politically correct way.
PREJEAN: That goes against what I stand for. And when I`m asked a specific question, I`m going to give a specific answer. I`m not going to stand in the middle. I`m going to take one side or the other. I don`t take back what I said. I was true to myself.
HAMMER: And on MSNBC, she responded to Perez Hilton`s nasty comments about her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He went on to call you the C-word. What`s your response to that?
PREJEAN: I can only say to him that I will be praying for him.
HAMMER: But SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you neither one has any intention of letting this drop.
PREJEAN: I know now that I can go out and speak to young people about standing up for what you believe in.
PEREZ HILTON: I`m very glad that I asked the question and that we`re having this conversation right now.
PIAZZA: So everyone is asking A, was this question politically incorrect? Should it have even been asked in the first place? And B, was it wrong for her to answer that way?
HAMMER: And that leads to the two most interesting things to come from this low-rated beauty pageant. One, the runner up is now more famous and talked about than the new Miss USA. By the way, it`s Miss North Carolina, Kristen Dalton. And the other is that a beauty and a blogger have instantly become the most high-profile spokespeople for one of the most divisive issues in America today, not that everyone thinks that`s a good thing.
QUARLES: Both sides might want to rethink who they`ve got at the forefront of their movement.
HAMMER: Who says beauty pageants don`t matter anymore?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: So why has this Miss USA gay marriage controversy struck such a cord and did Miss California get a raw deal here?
Joining me tonight in New York is April Woodard who is a senior correspondent for "Inside Edition." Also in New York is Midwin Charles, an attorney for the law firm Midwin Charles and Associates.
And April, I want to begin with you because in addition to being a star for "Inside Edition," you yourself crowned Miss Black USA. You have judged many pageants so you know a thing or two about this. Do you think it was a fair question to ask Miss California?
APRIL WOODARD, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": A.J., absolutely fair. As a person who was in pageants and also a person who`s coached people and judged people in pageants, there are no questions that are off- limits. In fact, I tell girls to watch "HEADLINE NEWS" before they compete because they need to be up on the latest events and they need to be prepared to speak about them and be prepared to express their opinions eloquently.
HAMMER: Yes. And if anything else, it seems like she wasn`t in that mindset as far as this particular topic was concerned. Let`s take a look one more time at how Miss California answered celebrity blogger Perez Hilton`s question. He asked her if she thinks that every state should legalize same-sex marriage. And this is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PREJEAN: I think it`s great that Americans are able to choose one or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And you know what? In my country and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there. But that`s how I was raised and that`s how I think it should be - between a man and a woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Yes. So I don`t know if it was nerves or a lack of familiarity with the subject matter. She clearly was uncomfortable with the question. But Midwin, over to you, was Perez out of line to ask such a divisive question?
MIDWIN CHARLES, ATTORNEY, MIDWIN CHARLES AND ASSOCIATES: You know, A.J., I look forward to the day when same-sex marriage is legal in all states so that we can just, you know, avoid all these things. But he was totally in line in asking this question.
I mean, to even ask that question kind of assumes that these women are air heads and bubble heads and not capable of dealing with issues of the day, particularly since she comes from the state of California that recently past Prop 8. Everyone is talking about it. It`s at the forefront of American domestic issues right now, in addition to the economy and other issues as well. So I think Perez was completely in line when he asked that question.
HAMMER: Yes. And shocking that it still remains one of the top divisive issues in this country, unbelievable, in 2009. Well, I went one on one with judge Perez Hilton about the whole controversy. He`s got plenty to say. You`ll see my full interview with him in just a bit.
But Miss California - she is standing by her answer. She told Matt Lauer on the "Today" show this morning she has absolutely no regrets about what she said, how she said it. Some people are saying she would have been fine had she kept her personal beliefs out of it. April, you know, as somebody who`s been through this, do you think that`s where maybe she went wrong?
WOODARD: Well, you know, you`re encouraged to stick to your opinions and you`re encouraged to do that in the interview behind the scenes and also on the interview on the stage. But you know, that`s a hard question to answer because sometimes people make one mistake that catapults their career.
And in your package you said, you know, we don`t even know who won. It was Miss North Carolina. But this girl may have a lot of opportunities and a lot of doors open to her as a result of this because it`s a controversy.
HAMMER: Yes. And a lot of people have a lot to say about it. "Showbiz on Call" phone lines have been burning up over this controversy ever since it broke. We heard from Adrienne in Pennsylvania. I want to play Adrienne`s call. She says the only reason that she`s being criticized is because some people just don`t agree with her beliefs. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ADRIENNE, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: You know what I think? She has a right to express herself and she did it very politely and everyone criticized her for it. Now, if it was some up there who was supporting gay marriages, that would be OK. But because she disagreed, I think it was wrong for her to lose her title.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HAMMER: Yes. I don`t know if everybody will agree with that. We do appreciate your call, Adrienne. April, let me throw that out to you. Do you think that maybe we wouldn`t be having this conversation right now if Miss California had said, "Yes, I support gay marriage." Or would that, in itself, have been controversial?
WOODARD: Well, either way, there would have been people offended whatever her decision was to say on that stage. But I think, you know, as I said before, she`s going to be able to ride this out. She`s been all over today on national TV stations, and I haven`t even seen Miss North Carolina. So I just think we have to wait and see on this and how it will play out.
HAMMER: Yes. And you can bet one thing for sure - she`ll be very ready on the subject and have plenty of articulate things to say, I`m guessing. Midwin, what do you think? Had she signed off and said, "Yes, gay marriage - I`m all for it," then perhaps, number one, she would have won the crown or we wouldn`t be here sitting talking about this right now?
CHARLES: Well, I mean, it`s hard to say. Either way, it would have been incredibly controversial. But also, let`s not assume that she had the crown in the bag to begin with.
HAMMER: Yes.
CHARLES: I mean, that`s quite presumptive of her to assume that she had it. But I think any time a person speaks their mind, they ought to. You know, we have a First Amendment right to free speech in this country and that`s what a lot of people fight for and die for. And so I think she ought to be applauded for speaking her mind.
HAMMER: All right.
CHARLES: You know, she may not have been on the right side or the wrong side or what have you, but she spoke her mind, which is something pageants are not often associated with.
HAMMER: And I`ve got to leave it there. Midwin Charles, April Woodard, I do appreciate you both being here. Much more to say on this whole Miss USA gay marriage controversy. Coming up, we`ve got the Miss USA judges who were right there when this exploded. I`ll see if they think it`s the reason that she lost the competition. You don`t want to miss this, the Miss USA judges in the interviews you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
And this is our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day - "Miss USA Controversy: Was it appropriate to ask about gay marriage?" CNN.com/ShowbizTonight is where you vote, or E-mail showbiztonight@cnn.com.
ANDERSON: A.J., that is the question that everybody is fired up about. And you know, it was a tough question but a fair question, I think.
HAMMER: I think absolutely fair, Brooke. Tonight, right here, the Miss USA judge who asked the question. Why did he pick that explosive topic?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEREZ HILTON: I`m not running for Miss USA. I`m Perez Hilton, A.J. I`m offensive. I`m not afraid of pushing people`s buttons and I don`t have to be politically correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: This is all out war. Star blogger and Miss USA judge, Perez Hilton in the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
ANDERSON: Susan Boyle, better watch out, because tonight I can tell you that she`s got some serious brand-new YouTube competition from this amazing young boy. Plus, our E-mail inbox and "Showbiz on Call" phone lines have been swamped. Do you think Susan should get a makeover?
HAMMER: And does the octomom want her kids to get in-vitro like she did when they grow up? I can`t do the math on that. The wild new octomom video. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.
ANDERSON: And now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.
TEXT: Madonna`s rep stands by claims that paparazzi caused her to fall off a horse. Judge refuses to allow ousted Gov. Blagojevich to leave country to do reality show.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE THOMPSON, KARK REPORTER: Courtney, will you marry me?
COURTNEY COLLINS, KARK NEWS ANCHOR: Of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Wow. Did you se this breaking news about the news team? Reporter Pete Thompson and anchor Courtney Collins of Little Rock, Arkansas` KARK got engaged right in the middle of the 6:00 p.m. news. Congratulations to them.
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. Tonight, there is a brand-new princess in town. Disney is introducing its first black princess. But is there really a connection to the Obamas? I mean, the first black princess and the first black president all at once? Is it just a coincidence or Disney magic come to life?
Here`s CNN`s Alina Cho for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW WHITE: We`ll clean the houses and surprise them.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Move over, Snow White. There`s a new princess in town, Tiana. She`s the new fairest of them all and she`s making history as Disney`s first black princess.
CORI MURRAY, "ESSENCE" MAGAZINE: Finally, here is something that all little girls, especially young black girls, can embrace. And that is huge.
CHO: Tiana`s timing couldn`t be better. The fairy-tale princess falling on the heels of what some call a real-life fairytale, the Obamas.
MURRAY: That sends a message that - you know what? No matter what you look like, you are beautiful, that one day you can be a princess. One day, you`re going to be first lady.
CHO: And Tiana is a modern princess, shapely with her own career, far different from cartoons of years past. Racial stereotypes used to be everywhere, even in some Disney productions. There are reels on YouTube. But times have changed, says marketing guru Linda Kaplan Thaler.
LINDA KAPLAN THALER, MARKETING GURU: It used to be that we would see people in black face. We would see minstrel shows. We would see black people portrayed in subservient positions. And it is so wonderful that we have finally moved past these stereotypes.
CHO: Pocahontas, Mulan and now, Tiana. Disney`s marketing machine is in high gear. The doll was unveiled last month and her movie will be out soon, too, "The Princess and the Frog," set in New Orleans. Tiana is a waitress, a budding chef and kisses a frog who, no surprise, turns out to be a prince. Kaplan Thaler says that`s where the stories still need some work.
THALER: There`s a lot of girls, even at 5 or 6 years old who might scratch their head and go, "I don`t know." I don`t know if it`s going to be solved by a prince. I don`t know if a frog is going to do it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: That was CNN`s Alina Cho for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
HAMMER: Well, Brooke, it is now time to check in the "Showbiz on Call" phone lines and I can tell you, for one, our "Showbiz on Call" operators are pulling double duty. They are just getting a ton of calls, and not one, but two - two fired-up debates in the USA gay marriage controversy and whether YouTube singing sensation Susan Boyle should get a makeover. Look at them go.
ANDERSON: Yes, A.J. We`ve got a call into "Showbiz on Call" from Deborah, in the words of Billy Joel, says, "Susan, I love you just the way you are."
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DEBORAH, CALLER: I think they all just ought to appreciate Susan for what she brings to this world with that voice. She`s the whole package. Forget what everybody else thinks. Her music is awesome.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HAMMER: I`m right there with you, Deborah. Thanks for the call. We also heard from Elaine. She called in to "Showbiz on Call" from Indiana and says Miss California should have been able to say whatever she wanted about gay marriage.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ELAINE, CALLER FROM INDIANA: I`m very disappointed on how Perez acted at the pageant. I thought the young lady, regardless of how she feels - this is freedom of speech. You have a right to say what is on your mind and what`s on your thoughts. I thought she was excellent. I am not against same-sex marriage. I feel anybody should marry anybody. But Perez Hilton - I feel he has a complex.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Thank you, Elaine. Give us a call at "Showbiz on Call." Let us know what you think about this or anything else.
HAMMER: The "Showbiz on Call" phone lines are open all the time - 1-888- SBT-BUZZ; 1-888-728-2899. That`s where you leave us a voicemail so we can play your call here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
ANDERSON: A.J., this Miss USA gay marriage controversy has completely exploded.
HAMMER: Yes, Brooke. This is a really hot issue right now. Tonight, the judge who set the whole thing on fire when he asked Miss California a controversial question about same-sex marriage. He is right here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEREZ HILTON: I was the YouTube moment of the show, the pageant, when I asked Miss California her question and when she gave the worst answer in pageant history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: I`ve got to tell you, star blogger and Miss USA judge, Perez Hilton, is not backing down one bit. I go one on one with him for the fired-up interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
ANDERSON: Also, President Obama shirtless on a major magazine. Seriously, the president. You have got to see this.
HAMMER: And you might want to make sure you`re sitting down for see this. The octomom has got a brand-new video out. In it, she reveals if she wants her 14 kids to have in-vitro fertilization like she did when they grow up, of course. Wow. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.
Now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.
TEXT: Justin Timberlake and Will Ferrell to host final two "SNL" episodes of the season. Christian Bale and Mark Wahlberg to play boxing brothers in film, "The Fighter."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer.
ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson. It is time now for Hollywood at home, stars revealing the secrets of balancing their careers and home life. Tonight, Jennifer Garner and Matthew McConaughey. Jen and Matt are co- starring in a new movie, "Ghost of Girlfriends Past." And with their busy schedules, a lot of people wonder if they have a ghost of a chance of having a normal life outside of work.
Jen`s married Ben Affleck. They have two girls, Violet, who is three, and Seraphina Rose, three months. Matt and his longtime girlfriend Camila Alves have a nine-month old boy, Levi.
So when we caught up with Jen and Matt, we just had to ask, how do they do it all?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER GARNER, ACTRESS: I don`t think it`s any different than anyone that has any job and also has a family. You take it day by day and you just do the best you can.
MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY, ACTOR: I love to try and mix the two of them. I do bring my work home a lot. But there are times when you just like, remember to leave your work at work and when you get home, take care of family life and personal life.
GARNER: That is absolutely true. Turn off the phones for just a minute, to be there. When you`re there, you have to really dive in and be there.
MCCONAUGHEY: At the same time, what we do - my best creative ideas come at 11:00 at night or 6:00 in the morning.
GARNER: We`re not in an office when we`re not at work. We`re not in an office but our work kind of lasts all day.
MCCONAUGHEY: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Sounds like they are busy, busy, busy. You catch Jen and Matt in "Ghosts of Girlfriends Past" which opens May 1st.
HAMMER: And new right now, the nasty fight between Tori Spelling and her mom, Candy. I`ve got to tell you, it shows no signs of slowing down. Candy, who of course was married late TV producer Aaron Spelling, says Tori still won`t talk to her.
And on "The View," the ladies grilled Candy trying to come up with some answers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA WALTERS, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER AND CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": You must have some idea why your daughter is so angry with you. Is it money? Is it relationship with her father? What do you think it is, Candy?
CANDY SPELLING, MOTHER OF TORI SPELLING: I don`t really know.
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": You can`t not know. You must have some idea. She`s your daughter.
C. SPELLING: She stopped talking to all of us just - you know, shortly after she married her first husband. And she stopped talking to my husband. She stopped talking to my son.
WALTERS: You have no idea why you`ve never had a conversation all this time with your own daughter?
C. SPELLING: No. Well, we`ve talked. And you know, she never really has said that she was angry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Wow. Well, Candy also claims that Tori doesn`t talk to her brother.
ANDERSON: Now, the SHOWBIZ lineup. Here`s what`s coming up at the bottom of the hour on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
The Miss USA judge who set off the Miss California gay marriage controversy faces our tough questions. It`s the interview you will see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
And the brand-new, pint-sized competitor giving YouTube singing star Susan Boyle her run for her money. Plus, you tell us, should Susan get a makeover?
And President Obama shirtless on the cover of a big magazine? This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.
HAMMER: Now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEREZ HILTON: I`m not running for Miss USA. I`m Perez Hilton, A.J. I`m offensive. I`m not afraid of pushing people`s buttons and I don`t have to be politically correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Now, on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, one on one with Miss USA judge, Perez Hilton. His shocking question to Miss California about same-sex marriage. Was Perez totally out of line? It`s the explosive interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
Susan`s brand-new makeover madness. Should the YouTube singing sensation get a makeover. Tonight, your fired-up phone calls and E-mails.
And from octomom to octograndma? Wait until you hear what octomom reveals about her kids having kids.
Plus, more stories breaking from the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker."
TV`s most provocative entertainment news show continues right now.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. It is 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer, broadcasting tonight and every night from New York City.
ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson, coming to you tonight from Hollywood.
HAMMER: Well, tonight, it is all-out war between celebrity blogger, Perez Hilton and Miss California. Now, Perez, of course, sparked a nationwide controversy as a judge for the Miss USA pageant. We asked Miss California, Carrie Prejean, her thoughts on legalizing gay marriage. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEREZ HILTON: Vermont recently became the fourth state to legalize same- sex marriage. Do you think every state should follow suit? Why or why not? .
PREJEAN: Well, I think it`s great that Americans are able to choose one way or the other. We live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage. And you know what? In my country, and in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there. But that`s how I was raised and that`s how I think that it should be, between a man and a woman. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Well, Perez was just outraged by that answer and he took to his blog right after the show and well, kind of went nuts.
Joining me now via Skype from Hollywood is Perez Hilton. Perez, I appreciate you being here. Why that question?
PEREZ: Well, I thought that it was a very important question to ask, especially given our current political and social climate. You know, the states of Iowa and Vermont recently legalized same-sex marriage. A couple months ago, California denied equality for their gay and lesbian residents. And now New York State is faced with that same question - should we make this legal and grant the same rights to everyone?
The other judges also asked very politically-loaded questions. So I thought it was very important. The next Miss USA should be able to answer anything at any time and do it gracefully.
HAMMER: All right then, in terms of exactly what she said, Perez, separate from saying, perhaps, I don`t know - "Gay marriage should be universally legalized. I fully support and believe in it," separate from saying that, what answer could she have given that you would have been satisfied with?
PEREZ HILTON: She could have said, "You know what, Perez, that`s a great question, very relevant right now. However, I think as the future Miss USA, I should represent all Americans and I`m not here to talk about politics. I`m here to inspire people. And I think it`s a great thing that the states are currently making these decisions and the states should continue to decide for themselves," something along those lines.
She could have stayed true to herself and not alienated anyone. Miss USA should represent me and everyone.
HAMMER: But there are those, Perez, who are saying that her answer to your question is what cost her the crown. Now, I do want to take a look at your response to that. You posted it on your blog. Let`s roll that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEREZ HILTON: She lost not because she doesn`t believe in gay marriage. Miss California lost because she`s a dumb (EXPLETIVE DELETED). She gave an awful, awful answer which alienated so many people. And Miss California, Miss USA - she doesn`t alienate. She unites. She inspires.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Wow, you were fired up, man. Now, this reaction that you posted on your blog, this is what actually brought attention to the whole controversy. It`s not like everybody was sitting around watching the pageant the other night. Now, I do know that you`ve since apologized to Miss California for sort of launching into her like that. You`ve invited her out for coffee.
But there are those who say, Perez, that your response was the very antithesis of compassion and inclusiveness. How do you respond to that? Do you regret how you reacted?
PEREZ HILTON: I don`t regret how I reacted at all because I`m not running for Miss USA. I`m Perez Hilton, A.J. I`m offensive. I`m not afraid of pushing people`s buttons and I don`t have to be politically correct.
HAMMER: OK. Fair enough, man. You said it, not me. Miss California appeared on the "Today" show. She did talk about why she stands by her answer. Let`s take a look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PREJEAN: I think it`s unfortunate that a lot of pageant girls - you know, they have the pressure, like Claudia Jordan said. She was one of the judges. She was great. She said that, you know, I should have been more in the middle. I shouldn`t have given a specific answer.
But that goes against what I stand for. And when I`m asked a specific question, I`m going to give a specific answer. I`m not going to stand in the middle. I`m going to take one side or the other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: All right. Perez, that response may still not get your vote but now that this has sort of sunk in and is being talked about, has your opinion of her changed at all?
PEREZ HILTON: No. I mean, I think it`s great that she stands for something and she believes it and I applaud her for doing so. I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion. My big problem was with how she answered the question.
You can have your own opinion and you can believe that not everyone is equal under the law. But if your running for Miss USA, that`s a competition. It`s a game. You`re aware of that. And if you want to win, you need to be cognizant of the fact that your words will be held against you or it will help you.
HAMMER: Perez Hilton joining us via Skype from Hollywood. I thank you for joining us, Perez.
PEREZ HILTON: My pleasure.
HAMMER: All right. So who is right and who was wrong? I`d like to bring in Claudia Jordan who was a judge with Perez right there at the Miss USA pageant. She`s in Hollywood tonight. Also, tonight, in New York, is Midwin Charles, who is an attorney from Midwin Charles and Associates in New York.
And Claudia, I want to begin with you. You were right there. Do you agree with Perez that it was an appropriate question and Miss California simply gave a bad answer?
CLAUDIA JORDAN, MISS USA JUDGE: It was absolutely an appropriate question. When you`re Miss California or you are running for Miss USA, you need to be ready to answer questions like that.
My problem with her was not her position. I`m actually for gay marriage and equal rights for everybody in America. But I feel if you`re going to take that position, you have to listen to the question. She didn`t really answer the question.
My only problem with it was - as Miss California - it was a big issue in our last election and she didn`t seem aware or as informed as she should have been because she said, "In my country we have the right to choose, you know, if you want to have gay marriage." Or she said, "opposite marriage," but I know she meant opposite-sex marriage.
And I feel that she just made - you know, misspoke. Hopefully, that was due to nerves, but you know, you`ve absolutely got to know these things. There are only four states allow it so not everyone has a right to choose, so it`s not equal rights for everyone.
HAMMER: Right. And we just heard Miss California say your advice was that she should have given a more middle-of-the-road answer. So tell me, what could she or should she have said while still remaining true to her beliefs and herself?
JORDAN: Here`s the thing. I separate real life from pageant life.
HAMMER: OK.
JORDAN: People might take offense with that, but like Perez says, you are - it is a game and it`s a pageant. If you really want to win and your answer maybe is not as popular as, you know, most people would agree with, then you maybe have to soften the edges a little bit. Some people could take offense with their answer. I would have personally said, "I don`t personally agree with gay marriage. I do believe in equal rights for everyone."
She could have said something like that. I mean, I don`t know. You know, I do know that - as a contestant - I`m a former contestant.
HAMMER: Right.
JORDAN: Nerves play a huge part in this.
HAMMER: Yes. I think it was very obvious as we were watching. I do want to bring Midwin Charles in - just for your objectivity, Midwin. Do you agree with Claudia and do you think that Perez is right Miss USA - or Miss California, in this case, should have been more savvy about the fact that hey, it is a competition, every word counts?
CHARLES: Well, to a certain extent, right A.J.? I mean, yes, this is a competition. She was fully aware of the fact that it included a question and answer component. She did not give an eloquent answer. She did not give an accurate answer. And if that cost her the crown, then so be it.
But we ought to be careful here. This is a pageant that has always been under fire for objectifying women and having women appear as though they are brainless and air heads. And here, you have a woman who actually answered a question with what her thoughts were and all of a sudden she`s under fire. I actually think a little bit of this is ridiculous, frankly.
HAMMER: Well, you know, and the question is, back to something you just mentioned, did it cost her the competition? Claudia, let me ask you, because Miss California and Perez both say that the reason that Miss California lost was because of her answer to his question. You were right there at the judge`s table. Was that the reason that she lost?
JORDAN: Not to me. To me, that`s a bit presumptuous to assume that she was automatically going to win in this. There were four other women that were very beautiful. Any one of those women could have been Miss USA. I know not everyone has the winner as the winner or Miss California. So you know, I think that`s a bit presumptuous to think that this one question is what caused it. Because for me, it didn`t change my opinion on where I had her ranked.
HAMMER: That`s fair enough. Let me ask you as the person sitting next to Perez. Do you think that the way he reacted going online and calling her the B-word was, you know, hypocritical and maybe going against his cause, a little bit of compassion?
JORDAN: Listen, I don`t want to make an enemy of Perez. The fact that he did apologize, that`s great. But the thing is, again, I am for equal rights and I am totally for gay marriage, same-sex marriage. But if you want people to be compassionate to your cause, you have to watch the tone and you have to watch the delivery because you`ll make more enemies. But I am glad that he apologized.
HAMMER: Even though he said, "I am Perez Hilton. I am offensive." That`s what he said. Thank you so much Claudia Jordan and Midwin Charles, I appreciate it.
And we`ve been asking you to vote our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day - Miss USA Controversy: Was it appropriate to ask about gay marriage?" Keep voting at CNN.com/ShowbizTonight.
ANDERSON: Hey, A.J., there is a brand-new controversy brewing over the world`s hottest singing sensation.
HAMMER: Yes. We`ve watched Susan Boyle just warm our hearts. Some say she needs a makeover. I think it`s nuts, but everybody`s taking sides on this. Should Susan Boyle change her looks? Your fired-up phone calls to "Showbiz on Call," next.
ANDERSON: Also, is the octomom already making plans to become octograndma? Wait until you hear what she reveals about her kids having kids. Plus, what she wants all 14 to do for a living.
HAMMER: And President Obama shirtless on the cover of a major magazine. Find out who is calling the commander-in-chief one of the hottest things in Washington. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.
ANDERSON: And now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.
TEXT: SHOWBIZ TONIGHT ratings news: Miss USA pageant gets lowest ratings ever. Natalee Holloway TV movie sets new record for Lifetime Movie Network.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HAMMER: Wow, what a voice. Internet sensation Susan Boyle may just need to watch her back. 12-year-old Shaheen Jafargholi is gaining ground as the newest global sensation. He`s the latest big star to emerge from "Britain`s Got Talent."
ANDERSON: Hey, welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. And tonight, Susan star makeover? Should the plain-Jane diva from "Britain`s Got Talent" get a Hollywood-style makeover? It is making big news right now.
New tonight, our "Showbiz on Call" phone lines are blazing over whether Susan Boyle should get a big-time makeover. Just wait until you hear their fired up debate.
Also, is superstar Susan the anti-star? You can`t deny it. She isn`t your typical Hollywood star and with her YouTube total viewers at 100 million and climbing, could she be sparking a new trend?
Plus, is Susan up for some stiff competition? There is a new singing sensation on "Britain`s Got Talent," and he`s only 12.
Joining me tonight in Hollywood, June Sarpong who is a British TV personality and founder of PoliticsAndTheCity.org. Also tonight in Hollywood, Michael Yo, who is an "E!" celebrity correspondent.
OK. June, Michael, no one can really quite believe how Susan Boyle, an unemployed, church volunteer from a small Scottish village could so completely take the world by storm. And the best part - it`s not about looks. People love her because of her incredible talent, her incredible story. June, could it be that Susan is the first of a new kind of celebrity, really the anti-star?
JUNE SARPONG, BRITISH TV PERSONALITY: I think she could be. You see, the wonderful thing about Susan is she`s real. She`s herself. And you know, I would say that Barack Obama has got some competition because she`s the new face of change and hope. You know, she makes us feel good about ourselves, that actually, sometimes, talent prevails.
You know, we live in a world where things are so superficial. People are successful just because they are good looking, not because they can actually do anything, whereas Susan - she`s lovely. She`s genuine. She`s nice. And she has an amazing talent.
ANDERSON: Absolutely.
SARPONG: And I think that`s what people are buying into.
ANDERSON: You hit the nail on the head. She`s genuine and she`s talented, which is not always the case.
SARPONG: Yes.
ANDERSON: And, Michael, is it possible for more people like Susan to make it big in Hollywood in a place where, honestly, you know, let`s face it, looks are a huge factor?
MICHAEL YO, "E!" CELEBRITY CORRESPONDENT: I don`t know - make it big in Hollywood, be hot for a couple of weeks. Like with Susan, I think, you know, this week, obviously, she`s going to be hot. In two weeks, the stick is all. I mean, she`s a lady that doesn`t look -
ANDERSON: Oh, give her a break. Come on.
YO: No, no, no. I`m not trying to be mean. I`m just saying, it was like a great episode of "Punked." You know, everybody`s was like, "Oh, she`s going to be terrible. She`s going to be awful." But now, we all know she can sing.
The only thing that can surprise us next is if rapped or she did something - beat-boxed. I mean, there`s nothing she can do that would surprise us. Let me tell you, nobody will be talking about Susan in two weeks.
ANDERSON: Oh, darn! I think she`s got staying power with that voice of hers And, you know what, there is a big-time fired-up debate over whether Susan Boyle should get a makeover.
In our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day, we asked on air and online, "Susan Boyle: Should the YouTube singing sensation get a makeover?" Well, 54 percent said yes; 46 percent said no. June, it is a close poll, but more than half say yes, she does need a makeover. Does that surprise you?
SARPONG: I think first of all, I disagree with Michael. I think we will be hearing about Susan two weeks from now. She`s here to stay.
ANDERSON: Me, too.
SARPONG: I totally believe she`s here to stay. And the poll doesn`t surprise me. I think people think they want that but I think what will be - what will tell us whether or not this is actually true is her album sales. I think she`s going to sell bucket loads. She`s going to sell things that we haven`t seen in a while.
I don`t think what she looks like totally matters at all. We don`t care about that. We like her because she`s nice. It`s nice to see someone nice.
ANDERSON: Exactly. She is beautiful just the way she is.
SARPONG: Yes.
ANDERSON: And so charming. And you know, our "Showbiz on Call" phone lines - Michael, stop that laughing. Our "Showbiz on Call" have been working overtime on this one. Listen - you know, the debate cannot get any hotter. Listen to what Lorraine from California had to say about the great makeover debate.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LORRAINE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: I definitely think Susan should have a makeover of some kind. Those women on there wouldn`t want to be looking like that. And she is sweet and she needs a nice makeover.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Thank you, Lorraine. But Margaret from Texas couldn`t disagree more. Listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MARGARET, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Don`t change Susan Boyle`s looks. She won us the way she looks. Her voice is what did it. Leave her as is. That`s going to get her places - just pure and wholesome.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Thank you, Margaret. Hey, Michael, who`s side are you on? I think I can guess - Lorraine who says, "Get a makeover," or Margaret who says, "Keep it real, Susan"?
YO: I`m saying keep it real, Susan, because this is not going to last that long so there`s no need to get all made up and change your looks because this is not going to last that long. I mean, just stay the way you are. People fell in love for her. You know, the way she looks.
ANDERSON: Yes.
YO: Don`t go changing - I just read an interview with her. She`s saying she`s going to try to lose weight now. She`s going to try to redo her hair. It`s like - why? Why? Be yourself.
ANDERSON: Yes. You know, I think it`s refreshing that she`s not nipped and tucked within an inch of her life. I wish her all of the best. June Sarpong, Michael Yo, good to see you. Thanks.
HAMMER: Tonight, President Obama shirtless on the cover of a big-time Washington magazine. Yes, take a look at this. It`s the shocking image that is sure to have everybody talking. The "Washingtonian" magazine cover story is a roundup of all the things that make D.C. great these days.
Number 2 on the list, quote, "Our new neighbor is hot," referring of course to you-know-who. Now, this picture`s not new. It was snapped by paparazzi while Obama was vacationing in Hawaii in December. The number one thing on the list is top secret until the magazine hits newsstands Wednesday. I`m thinking it`s Wolf Blitzer.
ANDERSON: All right. Is the octomom already planning on becoming an octograndma? Wait until you hear what she reveals about her kids having kids. Plus what she wants all 14 to do for a living. That`s next. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN.
HAMMER: Now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" - more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news right now.
TEXT: Tyler Perry`s alleged stalker formally charged. Neil Patrick Harris unhurt after tux catches fire at awards show rehearsal.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HAMMER: Did you see this? Look at them go - 100 leggy leotard-clad single ladies. They are just bringing foot traffic in London`s Piccadilly Circus to a screeching halt, I tell you. They`re of course dancing to Beyonce`s huge hit "Single Ladies."
No, it is not some sort of wacky English commuting ritual. This is to promote a U.K. contest to win free Beyonce tickets. Let me just say if this is just the kickoff for the contest, kind of makes you wonder what the winners are going to have to do. I`m just saying.
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. Tonight, a brand new octomom video shocker. Kind of sounds redundant, doesn`t it? Well, in a brand-new Nadya Suleman tape, she reveals whether she wants her kids to get in-vitro like she did. You can do the math on that.
Even though most of her 14 kids are still in diapers, well, Suleman`s already predicting the career her kids may have. Check out this just posted video blog on "Radar Online."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the kids grow up, you know, after your experience would you be supportive if they thought they wanted to go after in-vitro fertilization?
NADYA SULEMAN, OCTUPLET MOTHER: Huh? The kids?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When they`re grown up.
SULEMAN: If they`re married, when they`re done with medical school and, you know, they`re working, and you know, they want to take a break and they`ve been in a stable marriage or relationship for many, many years, I`d be supportive of anything they do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So you wouldn`t support them being single parents or -
SULEMAN: I can`t say never. You know, I`m not going to say never. But it depends on the situation. You know, there are certain things - I`m unconditionally accepting and loving no matter what any of my kids do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: All right. Does then she become octograndma? Does that work? Suleman also adds that along with her army of nannies looking after the kids, she`s got some kind of Fort Knox-type security system all around her house to protect her and her family 24/7.
ANDERSON: That`s good. OK. Monday we asked you to vote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT question of the day. It was this - "Susan Boyle: Should the YouTube singing sensation get a makeover?" More than half of you - 54 percent of you, say yes; 46 percent say no.
And here are some of the E-mails. Linda from Missouri, "Of course Susan should get a makeover. Has there ever been a star who has not had one?"
Wilma from California says, "Susan Boyle is living proof that beauty can look different from what we expect."
Amanda from Missouri thinks, "No makeover, Susan. She is a beautiful person." She is.
HAMMER: No makeover. That is it for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
ANDERSON: I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. Don`t forget, you can catch SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on the 11:00s - 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, and in the morning 11:00 a.m. Eastern right here on HLN. Take care.
END
