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Showbiz Tonight
Kelsey Grammer`s Kiss Off; Michelle Obama`s Revelation about What the President Thinks of The Kardashians; Lindsay Lohan`s Courtroom Showdown; Hooking Up with Snooki
Aired October 19, 2011 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
A.J. HAMMER, HOST: Big news breaking tonight on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT -- Kelsey`s kiss off. Kelsey Grammer`s startling slam at his ex-wife, Camille Grammer. He says the only reason that she got famous on "The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" was because of him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELSEY GRAMMER, ACTOR: "The Real Housewives" was my parting gift to her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Now, the SHOWBIZ Flashpoint -- was Kelsey out of line? We`ll ask former "Real Housewives" star, Jill Zarin, in a headline-making SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview.
Slamming the Kardashians? Tonight, Michelle Obama`s startling revelation about her kids, Kardashians and all reality shows.
Lindsay Lohan`s brand-new courtroom showdown this afternoon. Why HLN`s Nancy Grace thinks Lindsay should be jailed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": If I were wearing the robe, in that case, she`d already be in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Superstar rapper T.I. says jail scared him straight, so does he think Lindsay needs jail time, too? And does he think Michael Jackson`s doctor should be thrown in jail? T.I. right here in another must-see headline making SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview.
TV`s most provocative TV interview news show breaks news right now.
(MUSIC)
Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York and we`ve got big SHOWBIZ justice news breaking tonight -- Lindsay`s last chance.
Lindsay Lohan returned today to a place she`s been so many times, quite frankly, we`ve lost count. We`re talking about a place that`s familiar to her as partying at nightclubs until 4:00 in the morning, the courtroom.
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, of course, was right there in Los Angeles this afternoon as Lindsay faced a judge to learn whether or not she would be thrown back in jail for possibly violating her probation.
And man, oh, man, the judge really gave it to her, revoking her probation, ordering her to be put in handcuffs and locked up. Lindsay, you never learn.
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT was also in another courtroom today where Dr. Conrad Murray was trying to avoid going to jail on charges that he was responsible for the death of Michael Jackson.
And more huge developments today are making it seem that the doctor is boxed into a corner. The doctor`s dilemma in just a moment, but tonight, the justice patrol begins with Lindsay.
With me tonight from Miami, Judge Alex Ferrer, who is the host of "Judge Alex." Always good to have you here, Alex. You are a longtime judge.
JUDGE ALEX FERRER, HOST, "JUDGE ALEX": Thank you, A.J.
HAMMER: I cannot wait to hear what you think about what this other judge did. I mean, talk about being fed up with Lindsay. Wow.
Judge Stephanie Sautner has had it with Lindsay, treating her probation like it`s some kind of a game. She revoked her probation. The bail was set at $100,000. Let`s watch how it all played out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE STEPHANIE SAUTNER, LOS ANGELES JUDGE: She`s complying, although she hasn`t completed it at the Downtown Women`s Center as instructed by the court. So how are you complying? You failed to do what the court instructed you to do.
I don`t care about rallying cries. If I cared about rallying cries, I wouldn`t have reduced this theft case to a misdemeanor and given her the benefit of the doubt and said I believed it was over-filed.
And I said I believed it. But for it being Ms. Lohan, it would have been filed as a misdemeanor. I`ve said that. I upset the prosecutor, and I said that and I gave her an opportunity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: The judge not messing around at all. There, Lindsay got put in handcuffs just after that and later posted bail. Judge Alex, do you think that Lindsay got what she deserved here?
FERRER: Well, I think she would if she could stay in jail. I mean, Lindsay like the gift that keeps on giving. And the only one who`s more fed up with Lindsay than Judge Sautner is, frankly, the rest of America.
She needs to be locked up. She doesn`t take probation seriously. And as Judge Sautner said, probation is a gift. It`s an opportunity for you to prove that you were an aberration. It was an aberration when you were involved in that misbehavior before and it won`t happen again.
She, if anything, proved that this is her nature. This is her style and she will continue to do this. And a lot of probationers who violated probation came back in front of me and showed that they clearly didn`t care.
And I promptly and unceremoniously launched them into orbit. The problem is Judge Sautner really can`t do that because under California`s overcrowded jail law, she`ll probably be released.
And that`s the worst situation for a judge -- to put somebody on probation, violate them to show them you`re serious, and have the Department of Corrections let them back out on the street over and over again.
And, sadly, we`ve been talking about this over and over again. Well, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT was also right there inside another Los Angeles courtroom today following every minute of the Michael Jackson death trial.
Today, some brand-new bombshell evidence that Michael Jackson did not have a lot of drugs in his body, which is what Dr. Conrad Murray`s defense team has been arguing day after day in court.
I`ve got to think this really leaves Dr. Murray boxed into a corner. And leads to our SHOWBIZ Flashpoint -- should Dr. Conrad Murray cop a plea deal? Judge Alex, is that something his team should possibly pursue at this point?
FERRER: Well, I think they definitely should consider it. But the problem is, what are the options? What is being offered? Is the prosecution offering anything that`s reasonable? Because he`s looking at four years.
I mean, it`s not like he`s looking at life in prison, but four years for a doctor might as well be, and he would lose his license anyway. Any plea deal is going to involve prison time and it`s going to involve loss of license.
So it`s a question of whether it`s worth it or not. But you`re right, A.J., he`s pretty much out of options unless the defense can pull a rabbit out of their hat.
HAMMER: Well, we`ll never say never and I think we learned that with Casey Anthony this summer. We`ll see what happens there.
FERRER: That`s true.
HAMMER: Judge Alex, always good to see you. Thanks so much.
FERRER: Thanks, A.J.
HAMMER: Well, obviously jail has not scared Lindsay Lohan straight yet. But I can tell you that superstar rapper T.I. has definitely cleaned up his act after spending a lot of time behind bars over the past two years.
He`s totally got his act together. He`s written this fantastic, brand-new book. It`s called "Power and Beauty" and it`s just out. And his reality show -- we`ll talk about that in a moment -- called "Family Hustle" is going to be debuting on VH1 in December.
But this got us wondering -- does T.I. think that Lindsay could benefit from some jail time as well? T.I. right here for a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. It`s really great to have you here. I appreciate you making some time.
T.I., RAPPER: Thanks for having me.
HAMMER: You`ve been a busy, busy guy.
T.I.: Right.
HAMMER: Lindsay Lohan, as we saw, very busy herself. She was ordered locked up again for violating her probation. You were in a federal prison on charges of violating your probation, as well, stemming from a weapons charge.
It`s complicated. We don`t have to get into all of that. But, based on your experience -- because I`ve heard you talking about this. It sounds like you did get scared straight being in prison. Do you think that this is what would do somebody like Lindsay Lohan some good?
T.I.: Well, it`s very difficult for me to speak on someone`s circumstances that I don`t have even any knowledge of.
HAMMER: Right.
T.I.: I don`t Lindsay. I don`t even know what she`s before the judge for. I don`t know what she`s on probation for. I don`t have any information. So --
HAMMER: But the basic idea of getting in there, the idea of jail, the idea of prison to show you, hey, you don`t want this life. You don`t want do anything that`s going to lead you to getting locked up behind bars. I mean, it can do a person good.
T.I.: I understand that. But if you`re talking about, does she have a drug problem? Is there psychiatric issue? You know what I`m saying? Like, what is the underlying issue that continues this revolving door here? You know what I`m saying.
HAMMER: So just to throw a blanket idea over it doesn`t really apply?
T.I.: Yes. I mean, just to say, OK, if they`re back before the judge, lock them up. That isn`t always -- see, I`m different. I know my circumstances.
HAMMER: Right.
T.I.: And I mean, although prison did do it for me, there were other alternatives that could have done it for me as well. So I`m not going to say that that is the only way.
But, then, again, once again, I can`t speak intellectually from a place of understanding about her circumstances.
HAMMER: Fair enough. Absolutely. Well, somebody who has been following her very closely, HLN`s own Nancy Grace --
T.I.: OK.
HAMMER: Who does think that Lindsay needs to get thrown behind bars. We did catch up with Nancy at "Dancing with the Stars" last night. And I want you to watch what she told SHOWBIZ TONIGHT about Lindsay in jail.
T.I.: All right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: If I were wearing the robe, in that case, she`d already be in jail after she showed up on a private plane with booze and hot pants when she`s supposed to be on probation. But they`ll probably let her go again. So it`s sending a very bad message. But, hey, it`s California.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Now, what do you think about that? Well, look, they`re wearing costumes. You got it right. Here is your -- they were dressed up for "Dancing with the Stars."
T.I.: All right.
HAMMER: Seriously, we hear about celebrity justice. We hear about -- you know what, if it was anybody else, they would have gotten their butt thrown in jail and it does send a bad message. I mean, do you see where that goes on?
T.I.: I mean, you know, I see both sides because a lot of cases, if it weren`t for -- I heard the judge say in that clip that if it weren`t for this being Lindsay Lohan, it would have been filed as a misdemeanor and not a felony.
And you know there are several circumstances and legal matters where if it were not for the celebrity name attached to it, then it would have never been a case in the first place. So that`s a double-edge sword, both sides.
HAMMER: Right. Actually, I totally understand that. And I`m sure you have dealt with situations where, you know, you`ve gotten a whole lot more publicity for the things you were involved with because of your stardom.
T.I.: Absolutely.
HAMMER: But look, after your legal troubles, you have managed to turn your life around. It`s been wonderful for everybody to watch for all of your fans. And man, you have fans around here.
When they heard you were coming in, forget it. It was game over. Who gets to meet T.I. at the door? Your new novel is called "Power and Beauty."
T.I.: Yes.
HAMMER: The story could have been ripped straight from the headlines. In terms of what you have experienced, what`s the single best lesson that you learned, particularly from the time you did?
T.I.: I mean, that you`ve never gone too far to turn around, pick up the pieces and move forward. And, you know, just accept life lessons and gain the strength, the knowledge and wisdom from it. And you know, you`ve got to keep pushing.
HAMMER: And you seem to be doing that just fine. Will you stick around because I do want to talk to you about your next project, which is your next TV series.
T.I.: Absolutely. Sure.
HAMMER: This is going to be on VH1. This is called "Family Hustle." Some people call it a reality show. I particularly don`t like that. We`re going to get into that and find out exactly what`s the deal there.
And then I`m going to get T.I.`s take on this new revelation that President Obama is not a fan of reality TV. Is he actually slamming the Kardashians? Wait until you hear the whole story. I`ll fill you in on that, coming up in just a minute.
As we move on tonight, Kelsey`s big kiss off. Kelsey Grammer is giving himself a big old pat on the back for handing his ex-wife, Camille, the gift of fame on "The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. GRAMMER: "The Real Housewives" was my parting gift to her. Now, whether or not it worked out well doesn`t matter. It was my way of saying, "Look, you`ve always wanted to be famous. Here you go."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: The SHOWBIZ Flashpoint tonight, is Kelsey out of line for saying something like that? And who better to ask than "Former Housewives New York" costar, Jill Zarin? She`s going to sound off tonight in our SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview.
Also, the Kardashian sisters. I mean, think about it. They found love awfully quickly, didn`t they? Khloe married Lamar a little more than a month they met. Kim married Kris after they dated for just six months.
So here`s our SHOWBIZ great debate tonight -- can you really find true love on reality TV? This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views.
Time now for the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" -- more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news tonight.
TEXT: Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith minority stakeholders in Philadelphia 76ers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: President Obama isn`t keeping up with the Kardashians. In fact, he`d rather keep the Kardashians away from his kids.
Listen to this. The First Lady, Michelle Obama, reveals in a brand- new interview that the president does not want their two daughters to even sneak a peek of "Keeping Up with the Kardashians."
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. More about the president versus the Kardashians in just a moment.
But, first, T.I. unplugged. T.I. is an unbelievably talented rap star who is making some big changes in his life now.
He just got out of prison after serving 11 months and he`s not wasting any time moving forward with a new TV show and this brand-new novel, "Power and Beauty: A Love Story of Life on the Streets." T.I. with me in New York for a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. Are you having a good time?
T.I.: Yes.
HAMMER: Good.
T.I.: I`m going to (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HAMMER: I feel like you`re entertained.
T.I.: It`s going to become a guilty pleasure, man.
HAMMER: Well, all right. Good.
T.I.: SHOWBIZ TONIGHT --
HAMMER: If you`re going to be guilty of anything, then there you have it. Listen, you are doing so much. You`re not wasting any time.
Your music continues. This novel looks incredible. In December, you have your VH-1 television show. It`s called "Family Hustle." This is really going to give the world a little peek into your life with your family.
T.I.: Yes.
HAMMER: Now, I`ve heard you say you don`t want this lumped in as a reality show.
T.I.: I`d rather not because, I mean, you know, not to, you know, intervene too much on the President Obama-Kardashian squabble.
HAMMER: Well, he agrees with you. I`m going to get to that.
T.I.: But I don`t want to take a position even on that. I`m saying that the term "reality show," it has such a stigma associated with it that it discredits the effort, the energy and the amount of artistry that I put into all of my projects. So I don`t want my projects to be discredited with that stigma.
HAMMER: So in other words, most people associate reality TV with the table flip and the hair pulling, getting drunk and all that.
T.I.: The drink throwing. I don`t do that.
HAMMER: So you`re talking about, first of all, more of an artistic venture about positivity, it sounds like to me.
T.I.: I mean, you know, it`s an artistic venture. It`s positivity. You know, it just doesn`t have -- it doesn`t have a motive, you know.
It`s just a peek into the lives of -- and it`s showing how my family and I both juggle our professional and personal lives and how we interact as a family and how we overcome obstacles as a family, how close we are, how we manage to have days like today but still make it to, you know, the father/daughter breakfast that I`m going to with my daughter. And just, you know, making it to my son`s football game.
HAMMER: Demonstrating all of the hard work that goes into keeping things moving.
T.I.: And also cultivating their talents and -- you know, and appealing to their ambitions and showing them how to turn that into success.
HAMMER: Well, let me tell you why I think you and the president are on the same page here, because First Lady Obama just revealed that the president is not a fan of reality TV, and I think the kind that you`re talking about.
T.I.: OK.
HAMMER: She`d rather their daughters not keep up with the Kardashians.
T.I.: Right.
HAMMER: She gave this interview to "iVillage.com" and said, "When watch that stuff, he doesn`t like that as much (referring to President Obama)."
You`re a father of six. Do you feel the same way as our president when it comes to your kids watching reality TV, what we know as reality TV? I`m guessing you do, basically.
T.I.: Well, you know, in my opinion, I, myself -- I don`t like -- I mean, not that I just dislike it or detest it so much, but I`d just rather not watch it. It doesn`t intrigue me, you know.
But my oldest daughter -- she loves the Kardashians, you know. She watches it all the time. And I don`t have a problem with it mainly because I have a hands-on, interactive relationship with my kids that I`m able to explain.
HAMMER: You know she`s not being educated by "Keeping Up with the Kardashians."
T.I.: Right.
HAMMER: She`s being educated by dad.
T.I.: The Kardashians aren`t raising my kids.
HAMMER: Perfect. Before we go, the new book, as I`ve mentioned, "Power and Beauty: A Love Story of Life on the Streets" -- this is a work of fiction, I realize that.
T.I.: Yes.
HAMMER: But I`m betting there`s a takeaway you want people to have here.
T.I.: Well, more than anything, I would like to encourage and inspire the generation that I speak to the most to read more. I feel like it`s not enough of that being done.
But you know, the message is that, you know, although life can take you down different paths, whether they begin bad and end up good or vice versa, if you remain true to who you are and stay true to your integrity, if you follow your hear, it will navigate you to all of these circumstances and you wind up where you`re supposed to be.
HAMMER: Well, not that you need to hear it from me, T.I., from one initialed person, A.J., to another, I think you`re setting a great example and a terrific role model. And I wish you the best of luck as you move forward.
T.I.: Well, thank you. I`m doing better every day.
HAMMER: And I`m glad you found your new guilty pleasure, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
As we move on tonight, we have to move to real mean girls of Beverly Hills. The question we`re asking is, do reality TV fights actually inspire real-life mean girls?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re the Queen of England and we`re all trailer park compared to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you`re the only in here like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. All right. At least, I don`t do crystal meth in the bathroom all night long, bitch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Tonight, when grown women attack. Also, a former "Real Housewives of New York" costar weighs in on the vicious smack-down between Brandi and Kyle.
SHOWBIZ breaks big Kardashian news, too. Rob Kardashian revealing to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT startling news about his famous sisters and "Dancing with the Stars." Do not miss this big announcement right here. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views.
Now, the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" -- more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news tonight.
TEXT: River Phoenix final film, "Dark Blood" to be released 18 years after his death.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Hugh Hefner`s ex-fiancee has reportedly auctioned off her engagement ring. TMZ reports a mystery buyer bought the ring that Hef gave to Crystal Harris for less than the estimated $90,000 it was worth.
So not $90,000. Not $80,000. Not $70,000. Not even $60,000. Apparently, it sold to the mystery buyer for a reported $47,500. What a steal. What a deal.
Tonight, Mariah`s twins revealed. Mariah Carey and Nick Cannon show off their babies for the very first time. The real world -- Wall Street? How do you like to occupy the real world?
And "Dancing" cast-off Carson Kressley reveals to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT his plans to become an investigator for Nancy Grace.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over) Carson`s last dance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carson and Anna.
HAMMER: SHOWBIZ TONIGHT was right there as Carson Kressley shuffled off of "Dancing with the Stars." After his elimination, the fashion expert revealed he has designs on appearing on "THE NANCY GRACE SHOW."
CARSON KRESSLEY, FORMER "DANCING WITH THE STARS" CONTESTANT: We`re going to talk about, you know --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The D.A.
KRESSLEY: The D.A. and DNA and mouth swabs and, you know, science-y, crime-y stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He will do it in style.
KRESSLEY: Yes. Yes. We can do crimes of fashion. Tune in for a very special "NANCY GRACE" when we talk about people who wear white after Labor Day. Let`s talk to the D.A.
HAMMER: HLN`s own Nancy Grace is safe and will dance yet another week.
Occupy MTV? Protesters take notice. We just learned that MTV is looking to cast one of the demonstrators from the "Occupy Wall Street Movement" on the next season of the real world.
Check out a casting call on Craigslist which says, "Part of "Occupy Wall Street"? Real World 27 wants you." The TV casting agents are looking for 20-somethings involved with the movement.
Mariah`s baby debut. Mariah Carey`s twins are ready for their close up. In their brand-new interview with ABC`s Barbara Walters, Mariah and husband, Nick Cannon, show off their six-month-old bundles of joy, Monroe and Moroccan.
Mariah also reveals details of the couple`s difficulty conceiving and her high-risk pregnancy on Friday`s "20/20."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: And now, the SHOWBIZ lineup -- here`s what`s coming up at the bottom of the hour on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
Kelsey`s big kiss-off. Kelsey Grammer sounding off on his ex, Camille. Why he`s giving himself credit for Camille`s "Real Housewives" success. Is Kelsey out of line?
Well, I`m going to ask "Real Housewives of New York" co-star, Jill Zarin, what she thinks in a must-see SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview.
Wait until you see this. Jersey score? Vinny hooks up with Snooki and tells all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WENDY WILLIAMS, HOST, "WENDY WILLIAMS SHOW": How was Snooki in bed?
VINNY GUADAGNINO, CAST MEMBER, "JERSEY SHORE": Did you ever have sex with a meatball?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Wait until you hear this. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views.
Here comes the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" -- more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news tonight.
TEXT: Mariska Hargitay and her husband adopt second child in six months! A baby boy named Andrew! Danny Masterson and Bijou Phillips marry in Ireland.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Big news breaking tonight on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT -- Kelsey`s kiss off. Kelsey Grammer, slams his ex-wife, Camille, saying her reality TV fame is all thanks to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. GRAMMER: The "Real Housewives" was my parting gift to her. Now, whether or not it worked out all for her, it doesn`t matter. It was my way of saying, "Look, you`ve always wanted to be famous. Here you go."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Our SHOWBIZ Flashpoint, was Kelsey out of line? We`re going to ask former "Real Housewives of New York" co-star, Jill Zarin, in tonight`s SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview.
Love, Kardashian style. Two of the sisters found true love while on reality TV. We had two over-the-top weddings, twice the spectacle. But SHOWBIZ TONIGHT dares to ask, can you really find true love on reality TV?
Sex with a meatball? Jersey shore`s Vinny talks about his Snooki hook-up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
W. WILLIAMS: How was Snooki in bed?
GUADAGNINO: Did you ever have sex with a meatball?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: And is Vinny in trouble with Snooki`s boyfriend?
ANNOUNCER: TV`s most provocative entertainment news show continues right now.
(MUSIC)
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. It is 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York, and we have got big news breaking tonight -- Kelsey`s big kiss-off.
Yes, tonight, Kelsey Grammer has shocking comments bashing his ex- wife, "The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" star, Camille.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PIERS MORGAN, HOST, "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT": Do you think she married you because you were Kelsey Grammer, TV icon?
K. GRAMMER: I think she married me because I was "Frasier."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: They`ve had a messy, public divorce. And we`re asking tonight in our SHOWBIZ Flashpoint, was Kelsey out of line?
Joining me now in New York, someone who is the perfect person to judge this whole messy situation, the lovely Jill Zarin, who is a former cast member of "Real Housewives of New York."
And Jill is launching a squeeze couture on October 20th, right here in New York City. She joins us tonight for a SHOWBIZ newsmaker interview. Always good to see you.
JILL ZARIN, FORMER "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW YORK" CO-STAR: I`m biting at the bit.
HAMMER: Well, I mean, this is pretty astounding to me. I thought Kelsey -- look, I gave him credit for being so candid and open and saying what was on his mind.
He gave this pretty amazing interview with Piers Morgan on "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT," admitting to Piers he really felt that the relationship with Camille was doomed from the very beginning. Watch what he said about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. GRAMMER: I think, in the long run, I mean, it`s difficult to have anybody hear this. But I think it wasn`t really a relationship based upon love. It was a relationship based upon appearances.
MORGAN: Do you think she married you because you were Kelsey Grammer, TV icon?
K. GRAMMER: I think she married me because I was "Frasier."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARIN: He married her because she wanted (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HAMMER: Well, there you go. Now, we know (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
ZARIN: I`m biting at the bit. And you married her because she was an old, you know, kind of girl? I mean, she was this hot, blond "Playboy" bunny or, you know, model.
She`s 13 years younger than him and he married her because she`s beautiful. And you know what? It worked for them when it worked. And I think he`s moved on with his life and he needs to move on with this story and leave her alone.
HAMMER: You make a great point. I think that gets lost in this when you`re seeing him say stuff like that. Do you think that was out of line? That`s our SHOWBIZ Flashpoint.
ZARIN: Yes, I think that was completely out of line. And I think he`s making apologies about how he handled, whether he should tell her or not when he left Broadway, whether he should have told her that he was -- you know, wanted out of the marriage before or after "Housewives" started.
And I truly believe that he has remorse about how he did it. So then why are you doing it again? Why are you dragging your personal, dirty laundry through the media and press to promote your new movie or whatever you`re doing? You know, move on with your life and leave her alone.
HAMMER: Maybe to be fair and not that -- look, I`m the last person to say tit for tat is the right thing to do. But she has spoken publicly about him and troubles that they were having.
And he was keeping pretty quiet all through that time. Does he deserve some credit for that? Or you just should have continued to perhaps take the high road, if that`s what he was doing by not speaking out and do that?
ZARIN: Well, he definitely should have taken the high road and been a gentleman, because he`s being a hypocrite by saying that he was or he tried to be by doing the right thing, which ended up being the wrong thing.
I just think that Camille had every right. I think, actually, that she didn`t really say that much. I don`t know if I could have been that nice.
HAMMER: Well --
ZARIN: Look at what he did to her publicly. And then the ink wasn`t even dry on the divorce papers and he`s running down the aisle.
I mean, the woman wasn`t pregnant. There was no sense of urgency. He just kept jabbing her and now he`s fighting for custody with the children. I mean, grow up. Move on with your life and leave Camille alone.
HAMMER: Well, Kelsey had an awful lot to say. He tells CNN`s Piers Morgan he gave his wife a very special gift before he left her. Let`s watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. GRAMMER: The "Real Housewives" was my parting gift to her. Now, whether or not it worked out well for her doesn`t matter. It was my way of saying, "Look, you always wanted to be famous. Here you go."
Everybody knows the reality shows are not particularly a great way to be famous, and that was the gift. And I knew that when it came up, we would be saying goodbye.
I mean, I remember a conversation where I said, "Don`t worry about it. After the first season, you can do the `Divorced Wives of Beverly Hills` next season."
MORGAN: You weren`t really joking?
K. GRAMMER: I was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARIN: He`s a liar. First of all, he said before, you know, I don`t believe that she knew she was getting divorced. I mean, it was a big surprise to her. I`m sure she thought she had problems in her marriage. I think he`s lying. I just --
HAMMER: All right. Fair enough. And he didn`t say very nice things about becoming famous as a result of reality TV.
ZARIN: Oh, and by the way, if you wanted to help her get her career started, you had 10 years to make her even a bit role in any of the sitcoms that you`ve done over the last 10 years. You could have given her a legitimate acting role.
You didn`t have -- you know, "Housewives" is hardly, you know, giving her a gift. I don`t know.
HAMMER: From a real housewife herself --
ZARIN: I mean, in a way -- it is. It is. And you know what? He did give her hers. He did, because had she not been married to him, maybe she wouldn`t have gotten the role. So in that sense, he did give her a gift, so stop taking it back. Don`t be an Indian giver.
HAMMER: Let`s stay with the idea of whether or not reality TV is a good thing, because there`s this new study I want to get your take on today.
Check this out. It basically says reality shows turn kids into mean girls. It says girls who regularly watch reality TV create more bullying and drama in their lives and they care more about physical appearance. I actually can kind of see where they`re coming from on this. Do you buy it?
ZARIN: Well, the physical appearance, yes. I mean, some girls do believe that everybody wakes up like the Kardashians in full hair and makeup.
And that`s why it`s important to dispel that illusion that we have hair and make up done before we`re shooting a reality show, that it is real up to a point, that scenes are set.
And that`s why people like me and other reality stars, including the Kardashians, have come out to sort of explain what a docudrama is, what a docu-soap is. It`s real, but it`s edited real.
HAMMER: Well, I think we need to watch some of that real drama play out, because it made some pretty big news breaking from "The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" getting all kinds of buzz today. Let`s roll that out, Charles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re the Queen of England and we`re all trailer park compared to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. You`re the only one in here like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. All right. At least I don`t do crystal meth in the bathroom all night long, bitch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t point your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) finger to face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can point my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) finger on your face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, guys. Enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: I get the entertainment value of it all. I have perspective on that. But young, impressionable kids, teen girls don`t necessarily.
ZARIN: I agree with you.
HAMMER: Do you think? I mean, honestly, do you think reality TV, some of it anyway, needs some kind of parental warning label to advise the parents, "Hey. Look at what`s going on here"?
ZARIN: I think the fact that it`s on 10:00 at night does keep away the younger children. But some of these shows have been moved up to 9:00 at night and I think they should be on at 10:00 at night. That`s the first thing.
The second thing, as far as that goes, let`s be honest. Brandi never would have been in that house had she not been shooting "The Real Housewives." She wouldn`t have felt welcome and she wouldn`t have been invited.
So, then, what happens in the house is real. I think Brandi is sorry she said what she said to Kim and Kyle. And I know that Kyle is very regretful of how she handled it. I don`t think she meant to go that far. It`s ugly.
HAMMER: And that`s how Jill Zarin sees it. Thanks, Jill, and great to have your perspective on this.
ZARIN: Thank you.
HAMMER: And you do not want to miss Jill`s big debut, October 20th at New York City`s Lord and Taylor. She`s revealing her new squeeze couture shape wear line. And it looks pretty cool. She`s wearing it right now.
Love, reality style? Kim Kardashian shared her courtship and wedding extravaganza with the world on reality TV, and so did her sister, Khloe.
But SHOWBIZ TONIGHT dares to ask are they the exception or are they the rule when it comes to finding lasting romance on TV? Tonight, the SHOWBIZ Flashpoint, can you really find true love on reality TV?
The jury is out when it comes to love. But reality hook ups -- hey, they come with the territory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
W. WILLIAMS: How was Snooki in bed?
GUADAGNINO: Have you ever had sex with a meatball?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Vinny from "Jersey Shore" talking about sex with Snooki, and the talk doesn`t stop at meatball. Hang out for that. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views.
It is time for the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" -- more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news tonight.
TEXT: Cee-Lo Green to perform at Victoria`s Secret fashion show airing November 29 on CBS. David Arquette says he loves to see his daughter in the audience at "Dancing with the Stars."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID ARQUETTE, ACTOR: I love it when she`s here. It means the world to me, seeing in her face that she`s enjoying it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a symbol of my love for you.
KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY TV STAR: This is a symbol of my love for you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With this ring --
KIM KARDASHIAN: With this ring --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thee wed.
KIM KARDASHIAN: I thee wed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I pronounce you husband and wife. Kris, you may kiss your bride.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: I shed a tear every time. Kim and Kris say I do on their wedding day. And of course, it wouldn`t be a Kardashian wedding without reality show cameras there to capture the spectacular event.
So are Kim and Kris just proof that anyone -- I mean, anyone -- can find true love on reality TV?
Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York with love on reality TV.
Well, we all watched along when, not one but two, of the Kardashian sisters found their true love on reality TV. Of course, Khloe married Lakers star, Lamar Odom. Within a month of meeting him, Kim found love with NBA star, Kris Humphries.
Here`s our SHOWBIZ Flashpoint -- can you really find true love on reality TV? Is there a secret to that?
With me now, in New York, Siggy Flicker. Siggy is the matchmaker on VH-1`s "Why Am I Still Single?" From Hollywood tonight, Steve Santagati, president of "BadBoysFinishFirst.com."
Steve, by the way, was the host of "Bachelorettes in Alaska." This was one of the first matchmaking reality shows of all time. Steve, I`m so happy that you have that there in your resume and that`s why you`re here tonight.
Here`s what we posted on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT Facebook page. It was our flashpoint, specifically citing Kim and her sister Khloe as examples of people who did find love on reality TV.
I`ve got to say, we got so many responses from this. I want to read a couple for you. This one from super Sam who wrote on our wall, "Kim got married because for the past four years, all you hear is her saying she wants to be married by age 30. Give me a break. It`s so fake."
All right, Santagati. Super Sam thinks Kim got married because it was all part of her overall life plan to be married by 30. It had nothing to do with true love. Do you think that was the case? Or did Kim have a secret plan that worked out?
STEVE SANTAGATI: Well, I mean, if she had a secret plan that dealt with financials, yes, it did work out quite well, because I think she made a lot of money off that movie -- I mean, off that marriage, which was kind of a movie.
HAMMER: Yes.
SANTAGATI: A.J., look, women, when they do hit 30 years old, they see the hourglass go over. They feel like, "You know what? I`m not going to be that desirable in a few years." That`s what they think.
It`s not the truth, but that`s what they think. And look, did she meet him on reality television? Or did she show us the relationship on reality television? And we only saw so much of it.
In general, with reality shows, they`re not designed to find love or show you how relationships really work. Most of the time, they are designed to entertain you. And you should always keep that in mind.
So I look at that marriage like -- I don`t know. She only knew the guy, like, six months. I mean, how real can it be?
HAMMER: Well, that`s what I think a lot of people are thinking. But you know, she does have her defenders. In fact, we have a few on our SHOWBIZ Flashpoint page.
SANTAGATI: She does?
HAMMER: Our fan, Camille G., actually defending what happened with Kim and Khloe`s quick courtships and their husbands getting together.
Here`s what she wrote on our wall, "I think you can fall in love regardless of how long you know somebody. It shouldn`t take years to fall in love with someone."
So Siggy, what do you think? To our SHOWBIZ Flashpoint, Khloe and Kim Kardashian did find love on reality TV. They did it in a short amount of time.
So, as a matchmaker, is there a secret to finding true, true love on reality TV, even if it happens so quickly?
SIGGY FLICKER, MATCHMAKER, "WHY AM I STILL SINGLE": Whether you`re on reality TV or not, the fact that the Kardashians are so successful -- and this is why. They put themselves out there.
What is wrong with finding love whether it takes you a long time or it takes you two minutes? The fact that they go in it with their eyes open and they`re willing to love, I give them credit.
This is why they`re so successful. I think it`s real. And guess what? I would rather have them go into a relationship and love and then lose it than to not love at all.
HAMMER: So you`re being a romantic about this as well. You think it`s for real?
SANTAGATI: Yes --
HAMMER: Go ahead, Santagati.
SANTAGATI: No, Siggy, come on. You would marry somebody after knowing them for six months?
FLICKER: Yes.
SANTAGATI: And yes, there is love at first sight. But come on, marriage is a much bigger deal and children are a much bigger deal that just, "OK. I`m on television. I`m famous. I`m putting myself out there."
FLICKER: I know, but you have to understand something about Kim. Kim was in love. She was in a relationship. She`s a hopeless romantic and there`s nothing wrong with wanting to be in love.
It takes three to six months to actually get to know somebody -- three to six months. She gave it six months. She wanted to get married. Let`s just put that on the side. Kim wanted to get married, she went for it.
How many people are so afraid of entering a relationship because of their fear of rejection, their fear of being disappointed?
This is why I love the Kardashians. They go for it. And guess what? If it doesn`t work out, lessons learned. It builds character.
SANTAGATI: But Siggy, you`re on television. We`re all on television here.
FLICKER: Right.
SANTAGATI: You know it`s about entertainment. If she was in love, then why did she have to televise it? Why did she have to let the whole world know?
(CROSS TALK)
FLICKER: Whoa. Whoa. Whoa.
HAMMER: Hold on, Steve. That is the Kardashian way.
FLICKER: Right.
HAMMER: That`s a whole different topic for another day.
FLICKER: Right.
SANTAGATI: All right.
HAMMER: But one of our Facebook fans says you can find love anywhere. They`re right there with Siggy. And they said that includes a reality show.
This is what Lady Q. wrote on our wall, "In today`s world, you`d be surprised where you can find love. I think it`s possible. It`s no different than finding love at a library, park, mall -- it all depends on the person`s intentions and sincerity."
So, here`s a question, Steve. Even though you`re the naysayer, what then is the secret to making love stick once they`ve found love on reality TV, assuming they have? What`s the secret to making it last.
SANTAGATI: The secret to making it last is if you meet someone on a reality television show, you`ve got to take them out of that context.
You`ve got to see them in normal lifestyle situations, like, you know, cooking, movies, doing that kind of normal stuff. If they weren`t famous and you weren`t in these perfect conditions, would you still like them? Would that magic still be there?
HAMMER: Just like the long distance relationship, you`ve got to spend time together when it doesn`t feel like you`re on vacation. I think I got it. Siggy Flicker, Steve Santagati, thank you both so much.
Moving onto sex with a meatball. Yes, I just said that. Tonight, Vinny from "Jersey Shore" tells all about his sexcapades with Snooki. "Shore" fans know that Vinny and Snooki did hook up this season in Italy.
And then Snooks had to come clean, of course, to her boyfriend back home. Well, now, Vinny is doing the kissing and telling himself on "The Wendy William`s Show," just this morning, in fact. And I`m warning you, you better have a strong stomach for this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
W. WILLIAMS: First of all, you had sex with Snooki.
GUADAGNINO: Me? No, I didn`t.
W. WILLIAMS: And I know that her boyfriend --
GUADAGNINO: We were clean, I swear.
W. WILLIAMS: Her boyfriend, Gianni, is very mad at you.
GUADAGNINO: Yes.
W. WILLIAMS: And he said that when you come back -- excuse me, "Vinny is a dead man," when he found out that you guys slept together. This is what I want to find out. How was Snooki in bed?
GUADAGNINO: Did you ever have sex with a meatball?
W. WILLIAMS: No.
GUADAGNINO: Kind of like that. It`s a little awkward. She`s fun, but you know, we`re friends so it doesn`t really work out, you know what I mean. Half way into it, we realize we`re not into this and we shouldn`t do this.
W. WILLIAMS: Did she smell like baloney left in the sun?
GUADAGNINO: It was a little like pickle juice. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Gianni didn`t kill me and you`re going to have to wait and see what happens with that next season.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: I don`t even know what to make of that. The "Jersey Shore" season finale premieres tomorrow on MTV.
Well, SHOWBIZ breaks news with Chaz Bono. Chaz revealing why next week`s "Dancing with the Stars" will be really special for him and his mom, Cher.
Plus, SHOWBIZ breaks news with Rob Kardashian. This is SHOWBIZ TONIGHT on HLN news and views.
It`s time for the "SHOWBIZ News Ticker" -- more stories from the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT newsroom making news tonight.
TEXT: The late John Belushi available as an avatar in online game, "Retro World." Ricki Lake tells SHOWBIZ she`s surprised "Dancing" judges didn`t like Roger Rabbit dance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICKI LAKE, ACTRESS: Oh, no. Oh, come on. I keep having to groom myself. Are you ready?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we go. Hop, hop, double, hop, double.
R. LAKE: It doesn`t get any better than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Right now, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT breaks "Dancing with the Stars" news tonight. Next week could be huge. I`m not just talking about the dance floor. I`m talking about in the audience as well.
That`s because Rob Kardashian just told us the entire Kardashian gang will be in the house next week. Rob says he is really looking forward to support from his sisters and, of course, their millions of fans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB KARDASHIAN, "DANCING WITH THE STARS" CONTESTANT: We`re thankful we`re still here. And now, it`s Broadway week next week. But our song is pretty awesome, so I`m excited. It should be fun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: So your parents are here pretty much ever week?
R. KARDASHIAN: Yes, my mom is always here. Yes, next week will be the full house because everyone is back. So --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: They`ll be back in Dubai, though.
R. KARDASHIAN: Yes, Dubai and New York. They`ll be back -- they`ll all be here next week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Now, Chaz Bono had an amazing week getting a standing ovation for his samba. And Chaz just told SHOWBIZ TONIGHT that Cher might come back to watch him shake his thing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: What`s coming up next for you, guys?
LACEY SCHWIMMER, CHAZ BONO`S DANCING PARTNER: Yes, we have the tango. And our song is actually his mom`s favorite musical.
CHAZ BONO, "DANCING WITH THE STARS" CONTESTANT: Yes. Yes. Yes, one I went to a lot of as a child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Since it`s her favorite, you think she`ll be back here next week.
BONO: I don`t know. Maybe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: I`ll say it`s a weekly Cher experience. Why not?
BONO: Bimonthly, maybe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: We`re right about the half way point of the competition. So the question is, who do you think will go home with that coveted mirror ball trophy?
It`s our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT exclusive poll -- "`Dancing with the Stars`: Who will be the next to be voted off?" Will it be Hope Solo? Chaz Bono? Or David Arquette? Please vote at CNN.com/ShowbizTonight. You can also E-mail us at showbiztonight@cnn.com.
Justin Bieber gets his very first kiss under the mistletoe, not with Selena Gomez, by the way.
(MUSIC)
Are you feeling jolly already? I know I am. We`ve got your SHOWBIZ first look at Justin Bieber`s brand-new Christmas video.
(MUSIC)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Justin Bieber can do anything, can`t he? He can make Christmas happen two months early. Well, at least in his video, he can. Here`s your SHOWBIZ first look at Justin Bieber`s new song, "Mistletoe."
(MUSIC)
Justin`s new album, "Under the Mistletoe" features duets with Mariah Carey, Usher and Busta Rhymes, and it will be released on November 1st. I`m Jewish and I`m already in the Christmas spirit. Look at that. Thank you, Justin.
That is it for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York. Remember, you can catch SHOWBIZ TONIGHT exclusively Sunday to Friday at 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific here on HLN.
Stay right here for "DR. DREW" starting right now on HLN.
END
