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Showbiz Tonight
Top 5 Best True Crime Movies of All Time; New Theory of Why Jodi Arias Killed; Possible Smoking Gun in Michael Jackson Wrongful Death Trial; Police Investigating Justin Bieber`s Alleged Speeding; James Lipton, Former Pimp?; Should Jaden Smith Revisit Dad`s Famous TV Show?
Aired May 30, 2013 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
A.J. HAMMER, HOST: Tonight on the "SHOWBIZ Countdown," "SHOWBIZ Justice Shockers." A juror`s explosive theory about why Jodi Arias really murdered Travis Alexander. You`ve got to hear this wild idea.
Plus, I am counting down the top 5 true crime movies of all time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m in construction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: So just how close is the classic mob movie "Goodfellas" to the brutal real-life world of organized crime? The stars of "Mob Wives" ain`t afraid to snitch about that. They`re right here tonight with the answer.
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT starts right now.
Hello, I`m A.J. Hammer. Thanks so much for watching.
We`re going to have our special "SHOWBIZ Countdown" of the top five true crime movies a little bit later. I assure you, you do not want to miss a moment of it.
But first, it`s the stories that are playing out like Hollywood blockbusters. It`s today`s top three "SHOWBIZ Justice Shockers."
We kick off our countdown with No. 3, the explosive new theory of why Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander, and this is coming straight from a juror on the case.
Alternate juror Tara Kelly dropped her bombshell on Twitter. Here`s what she said: "It only made her really mad knowing he no longer wanted her. She couldn`t take it. She planned the burglary and started planning his death. She wanted to make sure she was the last he ever had sexually. She wanted that power of knowing she was his last."
I want to take this right out to criminal defense lawyer and host of "Deadly Sins" on Investigation Discovery, Darren Kavinoky, Darren joining me from Atlanta. And it almost seems like a wild theory, but it also seems kind of plausible, Darren. You spoke with that juror, Tara Kelley...
DARREN KAVINOKY, HOST, INVESTIGATION DISCOVERY`S "DEADLY SINS": Yes.
HAMMER: ... over the weekend. What did you think of her theory?
KAVINOKY: It did. You know, Tara and I spent over a half an hour together on the phone. She`s my new BFF.
And if anybody thinks that this jury did not take this case seriously on any level, they need to talk to Tara Kelley. She spent a lot of time going through the timeline in this case. And it got her really clear about the -- the gun being stolen from the grandparents` house, how that factored into the premeditation.
And when you look at some of the e-mails and texts, that it was clear, at least to Tara, that this was motivated by Jodi`s desire to make sure that she would be his last sexual conquest.
It`s fascinating to talk to her.
HAMMER: Yes. Fascinating and what a detailed theory.
Let me bring in CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin.
Sunny, this juror`s life was this case. You know, we all watched it, but this was her entire focus. What do you think of that theory?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know, it`s plausible, certainly, but I don`t know if it was supported by the evidence, and it`s not just conjecture.
Remember, this was the alternate juror. This was not someone that went into the jury room with the rest of the jurors when they deliberated. And so I suspect that the other jurors may not have known about her theory, but it`s plausible.
And A.J., listen, we all have theories. I have theories about why Jodi Arias may have acted the -- acted the way that she did, but I don`t know that any of those theories are the real theories. I don`t know that we`ll ever really know why Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander.
HAMMER: And that`s exactly it, because Jodi, of course, sticking to her story. In fact, let`s watch together now what she told KNXV about why she went over to Travis`s house and whether she was angry at him. Roll that, Charles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You went to his house. What were you expecting was going to happen?
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED OF MURDER: I really expected us to just hang out. Like we`d always done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you just so frustrated with him and so angry with him?
ARIAS: No, I don`t feel that I was ever angry with Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were never a scorned, bitter woman, jealous of these other women?
ARIAS: I had no knowledge of it. I assumed there were other women, because that -- that was his modus operandi. That we weren`t in a relationship, so I can`t -- I can`t dictate -- I don`t think I could ever dictate, even if we are in a relationship, what he does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: All right, Darren. Well, to Sunny`s point, one of the sad parts about this case is, you know, we may never know exactly why Jodi killed Travis.
KAVINOKY: Well, it`s hard to tell the truth if you`re going to -- or what the truth is if we`re going to rely on Jodi Arias to tell it.
But what`s -- what was so fascinating in my conversations with Tara is she was actually looking at the evidence, the things that we knew happened. And at least in her mind -- and you`re right, she didn`t get a chance to deliberate with the other jurors, but she was somebody that was living with the evidence and really poring through it. In her mind, that gun being stolen just a few days beforehand, that was no coincidence.
And when you couple that with the other elements of premeditation -- the gas cans, the going off the grid with the -- with the cell phone -- all of those things suggested strongly to her that all of this was concocted well in advance.
And it certainly lines up.
HAMMER: Yes.
KAVINOKY: It`s the best theory that I`ve heard so far, and I`ve been living with this case a while now.
HAMMER: And I just find it continually fascinating, as I think we will for some time, as we continue to hear from these jurors about what was going through their minds as they were hearing all this.
But our countdown right now of "SHOWBIZ Justice Shockers" continues. We`ve got to get to No. 2. This is an exclusive and a possible smoking gun in another trial, the Michael Jackson wrongful death lawsuit.
Now, Michael Jackson`s family is suing AEG Live. They are claiming that the concert promoter is liable for Jackson`s death, because it negligently employed Dr. Conrad Murray. Murray is in prison, of course, for causing Jackson`s death.
Now, AEG insists Murray`s was Michael`s, not their, employee, OK?
But a possible bombshell has emerged in the trial: this e-mail from AEG`s co-CEO, and it says flat out, "We want to remind Murray that it is AEG, not M.J." -- Michael Jackson, of course -- "who is paying his salary." Wow!
Well, CNN exclusively obtained a videotape deposition of the man who sent that e-mail and how he handled the question. You`ve got to watch the way he kind of moonwalks his way around it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you say his salary, who are you talking about?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But how do you know you weren`t paying his salary if you don`t know who we`re talking about?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t remember this e-mail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn`t you just testify that you weren`t paying his salary?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: AEG?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just testified that you weren`t paying his salary. You just testified to that a few seconds ago, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whose salary were you referring to, Dr. Murray`s?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: I don`t know; I don`t recall. CNN`s Alan Duke says that the way the CEO kept saying, "I don`t recall" actually had people laughing right there in the courtroom.
Sunny, is this, in fact, the smoking gun the defense says it is?
HOSTIN: I really think it is. I mean, bottom line is this case is about who hired and who was responsible for Conrad Murray. And you`ve got this e-mail that says, "Hey, hey, let`s remember that we are paying Conrad Murray, not Michael Jackson." I mean, who pays you? Your employer pays you. I mean, people don`t pay other people just because they want to be nice.
And I get the sense that this executive is sitting, you know, on the witness stand trying to save his salary...
HAMMER: Yes.
HOSTIN: ... which means he all of a sudden doesn`t remember anything. I mean, it really is laughable.
KAVINOKY: This was the cover-up being worse than the crime. No one is going to find that credible. Those denials are ridiculous.
HAMMER: It`s going to be really fascinating to see how that all rolls out.
Well, our No. 1 "SHOWBIZ Justice Shocker" in tonight`s countdown is the star who -- you know, one time we here at SHOWBIZ TONIGHT never thought we would see in a "SHOWBIZ Justice" countdown. That star is this one, Amanda Bynes, who was arrested last week in a crazy marijuana bust where she allegedly threw a bong out her apartment window. She denies it, but that arrest really the latest in a long run of troubles for Bynes.
Six years ago, I interviewed her right here on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`ve got to tell you: it was such a pleasure speaking with her. She was a squeaky clean star on the rise. She told me, flat out, her plan was to avoid the trouble that always or often trips up former child stars like her. Watch the interview with me right now.
I mean, it is just so sad to me to see it against the backdrop of where this woman is today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: You clearly have your act together. Let me go through my little checklist here. Have you ever been to jail?
AMANDA BYNES, ACTRESS: No.
HAMMER: No jail?
BYNES: No. Not yet.
HAMMER: Rehab?
BYNES: No.
HAMMER: No rehab. Amanda Bynes, what kind of a starlet are you?
BYNES: I know, what`s wrong with me? I don`t know.
It`s shocking how it`s become popular to go to rehab, right? It`s very odd.
But I don`t know. I guess I would say I`m very lucky. I have a great family, and I just have my eye on the prize, which for me is a long career. And I just -- I don`t want to -- I don`t want to blow what I`ve worked so hard to, you know, to -- to achieve.
You know, the club scene and drinking doesn`t appeal to me, so it`s actually easier for me not to do it. I have -- I`ve never even been offered drugs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: I can`t believe it`s the same person, but, of course, we don`t know exactly what`s going on with her. We can only hope that she is getting on the right path to deal with it.
I`m sure you, Sunny and Darren, agree. Thanks you both so much for being with me tonight.
Well, get ready for this. I`m firing up another amazing "SHOWBIZ Countdown, the top five true crime movies of all time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m in construction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: So just how real is the raw reality of "Goodfellas"? Are the real-life mobsters depicted taken straight from the one-time crime-ruled streets of New York? The stars of "Mob Wives" are not afraid to rat about that. They`re right here with the answers. You`ve got to see it.
But can "Goodfellas" top New York`s most notorious serial killer? In the "Summer of Sam," Spike Lee revealed the horror of the Son of Sam, who terrorized New York City for 13 months. Michael Badalucco, who played the infamous serial killer, is revealing his personal connection to that story right to me.
What`s the No. 1 true crime story of all time?
This is SBT, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT LAUER, CO-HOST, NBC`S "THE TODAY SHOW": You admitted, that for a while back in Paris -- how old were you at the time, by the way?
JAMES LIPTON, TV HOST: I was very young. Very, very young. Very young.
LAUER: You were a -- you were a pimp.
LIPTON: Well, pimp is an American word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: What?
James Lipton, iconic host of "Inside the Actors Studio," is famous, of course, for getting big Hollywood stars to reveal some deep, dark secrets, but now look at the guy. He`s the one dropping that bombshell that he was a pimp back in the day.
Let`s let that secret just soak in for a minute, shall we? OK.
First on our "SHOWBIZ Quick Hits," where we take on the day`s buzziest stories at lightning-fast speed. We`ve got to get to Justin Bieber, because apparently, he drives at a lightning-fast speed.
The cops want to talk to you, Justin, about your speed at the wheel. Investigators from the L.A. County Sheriff`s Department want Justin to set the record straight about his alleged high-speed hijinks near his home.
Former NFL star Keyshawn Johnson, who lives in the same Calabasas neighborhood as Justin, has already gone on record saying he actually tried to confront Justin about his alleged reckless driving, and now the cops want to hear from Justin, too.
With me from Hollywood, David Begnaud. He`s the host of "News Breaker" on Ora TV.
So David, Justin`s handlers have continued to issue statements saying it wasn`t just Justin behind the wheel, and now we know the police want to hear that from Justin himself.
Don`t you think that Justin should just talk to the cops already, either own it or to clear his name? He`s got to say something, right? Thirty seconds on the clock.
DAVID BEGNAUD, ORA TV`S "NEWSBREAKER": Absolutely. Sure as hell does. Look, if you`re the attorney for Justin Bieber, you don`t want him going anywhere near the authorities. If you`re his mama, you might think he needs a good old-fashioned whipping, like we say in Louisiana where I`m from. But if you`re in the public and you`re just, you know, one of Joe People watching this story, he`s kind of looking like a bit of a brat.
I mean, his car just got pulled over 24 hours ago. Somebody else was behind the wheel. They were speeding in it. I mean, the kid can`t stay out of trouble.
I think he needs to talk to investigators. Do I think he will? No, I don`t think his attorneys will let him, but I think this kid is headed down a reckless road.
HAMMER: Yes. Most importantly, Justin, if you`re ever driving that fast, please stop.
Moving on to our second "SHOWBIZ Quick Hit" tonight, and I have to say, it`s my favorite story of the week so far. Legendary TV star James Lipton, who of course, has interviewed the most iconic Hollywood stars on his drama show, "Inside the Actors Studio," just revealed a bombshell about himself.
He once worked as a pimp in France. Otherwise known as a maquereau, or a mec. And this morning on "The Today Show," he revealed to Matt Lauer the back story to his former gigs, and you know what? There`s a difference between an American pimp and a mec. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LIPTON: A pimp exploits and often abuses his women. And it`s just the reverse for the mec. A mec works for the woman. I was a very young man. Very, very young man. I was living in France. I wanted to stay there. I couldn`t work, because the French men couldn`t get employment.
I was going through what the French call rites de passage, rites of passage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: James Lipton, interviewer, iconic interviewer, former pimp.
You know, David, he`s one of the most stoic men on TV. Isn`t this just wildly horrific and entertaining at the same time?
BEGNAUD: Look. Look, A.J., the buzzer`s not getting me on this one. He calls himself an agent for the ladies? I mean, come on, this guy was a pimp.
But only in the late `80s, A.J., could you reveal this and actually come off looking like a bad ass. Somebody -- somebody told me walking into this interview, "that makes him kind of cool."
I mean, look, he`s not going to lose his job for it, but at the end of the day, working for the ladies? Come on.
HAMMER: Let me --let me -- I like -- I interviewed James before, and I like him even more now.
BEGNAUD: Right.
HAMMER: Let me get right to our next "SHOWBIZ Quick Hit."
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT was at the premier of Will Smith and his son Jaden`s new movie, "After Earth," here in New York. We asked Jaden if he would consider doing a remake of his dad`s hit show, "Fresh Prince of Bel Air." Here`s what Jaden told us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JADEN SMITH, WILL SMITH`S SON: No. You can`t do it.
WILL SMITH, ACTOR/RAPPER: You can`t do it. Yes. It`s one of those, like every once in a while, something just captures that time and place, and that was a hard one. "The Karate Kid" was a -- that was a tough enough -- tough enough to go into something -- yes, you`re not doing it again.
J. SMITH: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: All right, roll that clock, Charles.
David, I think they should reconsider. Go.
BEGNAUD: No. Hell, no, you`re wrong, A.J. That was a classic. Don`t do it. Thank God Dad is the one who said it, although he is sporting a little bit of a Fresh Prince hairdo at his young age. No. It was a classic. I don`t want to see the kid do it. Dad says no, done.
HAMMER: Sometimes my guests just don`t understand. I think they should do it. All right. David Begnaud, thanks, man. Appreciate it.
Well, this is also getting some major buzz tonight. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The outfit, the jewelry, the `80s style. Is this real?
(on camera): When you Prancercise, what does it make you feel like?
JOANNA ROHRBACK, CREATOR OF PRANCERCISE: It makes me feel liberated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: I could see that. The brand-new viral video that may be the newest exercise craze or maybe just a big joke. Either way, you`re going to want to saddle up. I am taking you into the wild world of Prancercise.
Plus, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is counting down the top five true crime movies of all time. And you know the raw reality of "Goodfellas" is on the list, but just how close does the violent depiction of real-life mobsters come to reality? I`ve got the stars of "Mob Wives" right here with the answer.
This is SBT, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: And now, giddy-up. Look at this woman. She`s the guru of Prancercise. Now, if you haven`t heard of this, this is a brand-new exercise craze. You kind of prance around like a horse with weights on your ankles and wrists. Yes, just like she is in the video.
Now this video is going wildly viral tonight and even though a lot of people think this has got to be some kind of a spoof, Prancercise`s creator says it is 100 percent real. Here now is CNN`s Jeanne Moos saddling up for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOOS: Wild horses couldn`t keep us from reporting on this new exercise routine. Why exercise when you can Prancercise? Is it a workout or is it a spoof? It is definitely something to behold. Let`s pick up the pace.
ROHRBACK: With the Prancercise trot, it`s really hot.
MOOS: The outfit, the jewelry, the `80s style, is this real?
(on camera): When you Prancercise, what does it make you feel like?
ROHRBACK: It makes me feel liberated.
MOOS (voice-over): Sixty-year-old Joanna Rohrback of Florida invented Prancercising 25 years ago.
ROHRBACK: It didn`t really start catching on until this week, I think.
MOOS: When blogs started featuring the video she put online last year. She`d already written a book and created a Web site. She describes Prancercise as...
ROHRBACK: Springy, rhythmic movement forward, similar to a horse`s gait, ideally induced by elation.
MOOS: She`s elated by the Web`s sudden discovery of Prancercise, even if much of the commentary is mocking. On Huffington Post, her fitness routine was put on the comedy page.
(on camera): The Web, though, can be kind of harsh.
ROHRBACK: I know it can. But, you know what? I`ll take all of it. The harsh, the goof, everything because, hey, that`s what getting famous is about, right?
MOOS (voice-over): The lady`s got horse sense.
There are four modes of Prancercise, most of them done wearing ankle weights.
ROHRBACK: We`re going to really cut the noose and let it loose with the Prancercise gallop.
MOOS: Joanna says Prancercise is great aerobic exercise, low impact on the body and lots of fun. Reminded us of an episode of "Friends" in which Rachel discovers that running un-self-consciously like a goofball can feel great.
JENNIFER ANISTON, ACTRESS: I feel so free and so graceful!
MOOS: See, even Jennifer Aniston Prancercises.
ROHRBACK: Now it`s your turn.
MOOS (on camera): I`m channeling my inner horse. It`s exhausting.
(voice-over): As for all that mockery, Joanna takes it in stride.
ROHRBACK: Maybe my presence, because I`m not a youngster and I`m not wearing, you know, the usual pierced earrings and the punk hairdo.
MOOS: She`s a horse of a different color, all right.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: I like her. I think I`m going to stick with the treadmill all the same. That was CNN`s Jeanne Moos for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
And galloping on now, I`ve got an incredible "SHOWBIZ Countdown" on the way. I`m bringing you the top five true crime movies of all time, including Spike Lee`s "Summer of Sam."
This film chronicled the horrific shooting spree of serial killer David Berkowitz, who of course, kept the entire city of New York on edge in that red hot summer of 1977. The great actor, Michael Badalucco, who portrayed the terrifying killer, is right here tonight.
But does Michael`s amazing role top Denzel Washington`s transformation into ruthless drug kingpin Frank Lucas in "American Gangster"? Which true crime film will top our countdown?
This is SBT, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, on HLM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Tonight on the "SHOWBIZ Countdown," the top five true crime movies of all time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m in construction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: "Goodfellas`" raw reality. It`s a violent depiction of real- life mobsters, but how close does it come to reality?
The stars of "Mob Wives" are here with the answer. They also revealed their stunning personal connections to the real men portrayed on the big screen. But can "Goodfellas" top the headline-making serial killer?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Double homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police received a letter from the .44 caliber killer, calling himself the Son of Sam.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just saw the bodies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am the monster. Beelzebub.
HAMMER: Summer of Sam horror. Spike Lee`s hit film relived the very real terror of a serial killer on the loose in New York City. Michael Badalucco, who portrayed the notorious killer known as Son of Sam, is right here. What is his personal connection to the horrific case? And what`s the No. 1 true crime movie of all time? A special edition of SHOWBIZ TONIGHT starts right now.
Hello, I`m A.J. Hammer, thanks so much for watching. Tonight on the SHOWBIZ countdown, the top five true crime movies of all time. Yes, those outlandish fictional Quentin Tarantino outlaws are certainly fun to watch, but whether it`s the talkative mobsters in "Goodfellas," the deranged serial killer in "Monster" or the smooth-talking drug kingpin in "American Gangster," a crime drama is even more gripping when it`s based on characters who really lived and on stories that actually happened. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you that when it comes to can`t-miss movie moments, true crime really does pay.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY LIOTTA, ACTOR: As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster.
HAMMER: Maybe movie goers want to be gangsters. How else can one explain the popularity of movies like "Goodfellas," "Pain and Gain" or "Public Enemies"?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is it exactly you do for a living?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m John Dillinger. I rob banks.
HAMMER: Movies that feature stories of real crimes committed by real people who really lived, and in many cases, killed. Proving that two of the most tantalizing words in crime movies are "true story."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You get to see all of these awful, awful things done by a very real person. So you`re living vicariously, and I think that`s what makes true crime amazing.
LEONARDO DICAPRIO, ACTOR: You`re going to have to catch me.
HAMMER: The nature of true crime movie is as varied as crime itself.
DICAPRIO: My name is Frank Taylor, I`m a co-pilot for PanAm.
HAMMER: You have your lighthearted criminal capers, like the ones depicted in "Catch Me If You Can," where former teen con artist Frank Abignale Jr. was played by Leonardo DiCaprio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is America.
HAMMER: There are tense cat and mouse crime dramas, Like "American Gangster."
RUSSELL CROWE: My investigation indicates that Frank Lucas is (inaudible) the mafia.
HAMMER: Which shows the battle between 1970s drug kingpin Frank Lucas, who is played by Denzel Washington.
DENZEL WASHINGTON, ACTOR: Put me in or out, it ain`t going to change one thing.
CROWE: That`s the way it is.
HAMMER: And Richie Roberts, the cop who eventually brought Frank down. Roberts is played by Russell Crowe.
ROBERT DE NIRO, ACTOR: And always keep your mouth shut.
HAMMER: And then there are also shockingly violent mob dramas, like "Goodfellas," which depicts the glamorous rise and ugly fall of infamous mobster turned informant, Henry Hill, played by Ray Liotta.
LIOTTA: I`m an average nobody.
HAMMER: The real Henry Hill died last year. In 2003, he told CNN what we saw in "Goodfellas" was pretty accurate.
HENRY HILL: It was right on.
HAMMER: In fact, watching the dramatic push-pull between cops and robbers is what gives true crime movies its appeal. They allow us to experience a life of crime that`s sometimes thrilling, sometimes funny.
JOE PESCI, ACTOR: How the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) am I so funny? What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is so funny about me?
HAMMER: Just don`t tell the gangsters that.
And we are kicking things off at number 5 on the SHOWBIZ countdown of top true crime movies with "Goodfellas." So just how close is the movie to real life? Well, I sat down with two women who have the inside track. They are cast members of the reality show "Mob Wives," and they have lived life inside the mob. Ramona Rizzo is the granddaughter of the infamous mobster Benjamin Ruggiero, also known as Lefty Guns. Oscar winning actor Al Pacino played Ramona`s grandfather in "Donnie Brasco." Renee Graziano is the daughter of Anthony Graziano, who according to the feds was a high- ranking member of La Cosa Nostra. Renee`s dad knew Jimmy Burke, aka Jimmy Conway. In the movie "Goodfellas," Robert De Niro played Jimmy in "Goodfellas." So I asked Ramona and Renee how close "Goodfellas" is to the reality.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RENEE GRAZIANO: Actually, that`s a very scary movie to watch for me, because I don`t think growing up we actually truly know what that life is. And when you see that movie -- I mean, from what I`ve seen in the movies and from what I`ve heard or read, that is probably the closest depiction of that underworld, so to speak. So it`s a little scary to me, actually.
RAMONA RIZZO: And it graphically shows the men that we love and the lifestyle we grew up in actually kind of doing their dirt, and you kind of like picture some type of activity that you never really thought like, you know, grandfather, your father would be a part of, because you only knew them as loving people in the household.
HAMMER: Right. He was grandpa. I don`t think he was grandpa Lefty Guns.
RIZZO: No, never, right, never.
HAMMER: I want to take a look at a scene from "Donnie Brasco," and this is a scene where your grandfather, who is played by Al Pacino.
RIZZO: Yes, he is a very nice man, I got to meet him.
HAMMER: You know, it`s a tough story but pretty cool, and in this scene he meets Donnie Brasco, who, of course, is played by Johnny Depp.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNNY DEPP, ACTOR: And I`m saying to you is you should give it to somebody who don`t know any better, because that`s a fugazi, all right?
AL PACINO, ACTOR: This is a fugazi? How do you know it`s a fugazi? You looked at it for two seconds.
DEPP: Well, it`s a fake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: It`s a funny scene, obviously not a funny story. Your grandfather meeting up with Donnie Brasco and essentially fooled him into thinking he was the real deal. But how close to reality do you think that was in terms of how things went wrong for your grandfather?
RIZZO: Well, I mean, if you really followed the book and what not, my grandfather wasn`t the first one who got introduced to Donnie Brasco. There was another person later on who turned out to be a rat that brought him into the group. And I come from a long line -- my father`s side is jewelers, so that scene would never happen, because my grandfather could have went to my other grandfather and said, hey, is this a fugazi or not?
HAMMER: There is this great scene in "Goodfellas" where Lorraine Bracco`s character is talking to Ray Liotta`s character and asks, what do you do for a living? And he says famously, construction. Which sort of shows us, at least in the movies it did, that the mob wives, or the family members, the women in particular, didn`t necessarily know what was really going on until they were in too deep. How close is that to real life?
GRAZIANO: Oh, I don`t know anything. I don`t think any wife, daughter, granddaughter or grandchild knows anything.
RIZZO: I think how I grew up was more like the original "Godfather," where when Michael had married his wife, she didn`t know anything. But as she grew into this lifestyle, certain things allowed you to know things that you really didn`t want to know, where you started maybe asking questions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: So fascinating. My thanks to Ramona Rizzo and Renee Graziano.
And now the SHOWBIZ countdown takes us to the gritty streets of 1970s New York. At number 4 on the SHOWBIZ countdown of the top five true crime movies, Spike Lee`s "Summer of Sam." It`s the movie about the brutal serial killer who called himself Son of Sam.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Double homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police received a letter from the .44 caliber killer, calling himself the Son of Sam.
HAMMER: David Berkowitz, the infamous Son of Sam, is one of America`s most notorious serial killers. A dark-haired monster with a devilish smirk, who shot 13 people in cold blood, killing six right in the heart of New York City. The great director and famous New Yorker Spike Lee lived through Son of Sam`s 13-month killing spree, and Spike revealed just how terrifying it was in his iconic true crime movie, "The Summer of Sam."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You busy tomorrow tonight? I`d really like to see you again.
HAMMER: Berkowitz`s rampage kept New York on edge during a rein of horror that lasted from 1976 to 1977. And the reason he was killing? He claimed his neighbor was an agent of the devil and used his dog to command him to kill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible), have you been in here? Leave me alone! What do you want?
HAMMER: The cops finally caught up with Son of Sam in the red hot summer of 1977 after the largest manhunt in New York`s history. When the NYPD cuffed Berkowitz, he told them, "what took you so long?" Now Son of Sam`s infamy has been caught on film forever by Spike Lee`s genius in one of the best true crime films of all time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am the monster, Beelzebub.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: Well, the man who brought Son of Sam to life in Spike`s film, is the great Michael Badalucco, and just like Spike, Michael is a native New Yorker who witnessed that terror of that summer. In fact, before he even took the role, he actually had to make sure his mom was OK with him playing New York`s most famous serial killer. Thankfully, she was, and now you have to watch what else Michael revealed to me about our No. 4 true crime film, "Summer of Sam."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: How close did Spike Lee`s interpretation of that time come to actually representing what you were really feeling, the real fear that everyone was feeling that summer before Berkowitz was finally captured?
MICHAEL BADALUCCO, ACTOR: What he captured in the film was the tension. He focused on an Italian American neighborhood in the Bronx and sort of the denizens of that neighborhood. They were looking to catch this guy and they didn`t know how to do it. And they came upon there you have Adrian, right. He turned into a punk rocker, and they started suspecting him, and saying, wow, this guy is weird, maybe he`s the guy. And then there was all kinds of tension, and I think that`s what he captured in the movie. That tension was throughout the city, in the Bronx, in Brooklyn, in Queens. You didn`t know where to turn. You didn`t know if you could go outside, you didn`t know what was lurking in the weeds. And he captured that in the movie, and I was pretty psychotic in the movie, too, I guess.
HAMMER: Yes, yes, you were.
BADALUCCO: Talking to a dog there.
HAMMER: And it was obviously this huge iconic moment in American history, but when you were making "Summer of Sam" with Spike, did you ever think to yourself at any point, hey, this could become or is going to become one of the most successful true crime movies of all time?
BADALUCCO: You know, I never really thought about that. I know when he announced the project, there was a big controversy surrounding it. I mean, a lot of the victims` families would write letters to the newspapers and they would protest, and people were sort of against wanting to relive that whole horrific time. But he went ahead with it, and I think films at their best sort of show us a way to look at the events like this and put perspective on it, and maybe we could learn something from it.
HAMMER: So we know you had to check with mom, but I got to know, when Spike said, hey, Michael, I want you to play this guy, Son of Sam, did you pause for maybe even just a moment and think, you know what? The guys in the neighborhood, they are never going to let me live this down?
BADALUCCO: yes. You know, he said, I said, what do you mean? Why would I be the Son of Sam? He goes, you look like him. You look like him. He goes, you know, the Son of Sam was Italian, his real name was Falco. I said, oh, he was an Italian guy? That`s even worse, I said. Let me think about this. But it was a job, and I thought about it, and like I said, I just wanted to sort of get into, for me as an actor, what was it like to be so evil? What is your mind like? How do you get into the essence of the evil? You know, Spike didn`t really focus on the character of David Berkowitz, but he focused on, as far as the Son of Sam went, the essence of that evil. You know, what makes a person tick that wants to go out and do this? And that`s what I found very rewarding working on it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: Thanks to the great character actor Michael Badalucco. Such a fascinating perspective in the infamous serial killer, Son of Sam. And the SHOWBIZ countdown of the top 5 true crime movies of all time is just heating up. We couldn`t even recognize the beautiful Charlize Theron in this ugly story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you talking about, you`re [EXPLETIVE DELETED] killing people!
CHARLIZE THERON, ACTOR: Now listen to me. They`re not coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Theron transforms for the film "Monster," the real story of serial killer Aileen Wuornos. But did her haunting, Oscar-winning performance top another Oscar winner? Denzel Washington became ruthless drug kingpin Frank Lucas in "American Gangster." And next, we`re talking to the movie insider who revealed stunning secrets from the real men portrayed in this film. But which true crime film will top our SHOWBIZ countdown? Stick around for that.
And now, more true crime movie madness. The hit movie "Pain and Gain" starring Mark Wahlberg and Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson portrayed a dark comedic take on the brutal story of real bodybuilders turned steroid- abusing killers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said no violence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I meant it when I said it, I swear to God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot kill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Duly noted. Look, when this is over, we`ll all go camping, all right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lee, who killed that man?
THERON: Who do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. They`re coming for us.
THERON: They`re not coming.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you talking about? You`re (EXPLETIVE DELETED) killing people!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: That`s Charlize Theron, who is barely recognizable as real- life serial killer Aileen Wuornos. Charlize won an Oscar for the 2003 movie "Monster," which chronicled the gruesome story of a prostitute who killed seven men in one year. "Monster" coming in at No. 3 on our "SHOWBIZ" countdown of the top true crime movies ever.
Now, Aileen wasn`t exactly a likable movie character, but you know, some criminals are entertaining characters long before their lives are ever captured on film, and one of those larger than life characters is Frank Lucas. The drug lord ruled Harlem, New York back in the late 1960s and early `70s. His heroin empire was legendary, and his brutality was infamous. Throw in the fact that hip-hop was born in New York around the same time as Frank`s reign, our number 2 movie almost writes itself. It`s "American Gangster."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: Frank Lucas was a ruthless drug kingpin and a legendary cool cat. There was only one person who could pull off his persona on the big screen -- Denzel Washington.
WASHINGTON: I was with him every day. I worked for him, I protected him, I looked after him, I learned from him. He probably was rich, but he wasn`t white man rich, see, he wasn`t wealthy.
"American Gangster" revealed Lucas` unprecedented drug smuggling ring, going straight to the source in southeast Asia and shipping pure heroin on planes used to return fallen Vietnam servicemen back to the U.S. Lucas was finally brought down in 1976 by federal narcotics officer Richie Roberts, played by Russell Crowe.
CROWE: I`ve met hundreds of parents of dead kids, addicts who OD`ed on your product, and that`s my story for the jury, that`s how I make it all stick.
HAMMER: But what makes this movie one of Hollywood`s best true crime movies is a blend of Harlem hustle, Denzel`s swagger, and the iconic soundtrack by Jay-Z. And, of course, the legacy of Frank Lucas, a one-of a kind American gangster.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: It is so remarkable that as Frank bounced in and out of jail, after that first arrest, he and Richie became friends. They spoke about their unlikely bond with journalist Bob Meadows for a 2007 "People" magazine article. And Bob has a very unique perspective on the facts and the film version of this remarkable relationship. So watch as Bob reveals the inside story behind the unlikely friendship that has stood the test of time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB MEADOWS, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Certainly it was a surprise, certainly it was. Richie had chased Frank for years and years. Richie is the cop, he`s the tough cop. Frank is the villain. So to see these guys as friends, to see that Richie had paid for schooling for one of Frank`s sons, of course that was astonishing.
HAMMER: So many of hip-hop`s current heavyweights were born in and around Harlem here in New York during Frank Lucas` rein, including, of course, Sean Diddy Combs. Now, his dad was allegedly affiliated with Frank. Do you think that the hip-hop connection may be at least one of the reasons that "American Gangster" had become one of Hollywood`s top true crime movies?
MEADOWS: I think it was more Denzel Washington and Russell Crowe that made this a really astonishing movie. Jay-Z`s album which is also named "American Gangster" and was released very soon after, that was inspired by the movie, so I think the movie actually inspired hip-hop a bit more than hip-hop inspired the movie.
HAMMER: So Frank and Richie now, older guys of course in their golden years. It actually seems to me that there could be another movie, I`m thinking "American Grandpas," I don`t know. Seriously, would you like to see Frank and Richie`s evolution made into a movie, perhaps reflecting this friendship that they seem to have?
MEADOWS: I think that would be a pretty tough sell in Hollywood, but I do think if you had the right cast, you could do it, perhaps say Channing Tatum as Richie and how about Redd Foxx as Frank. I would definitely see that getting (ph) five of these (ph), and that might be a hit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: That would be interesting, considering that Redd Foxx had been dead for a whole bunch of years. My thanks again to Bob Meadows.
So what will we name the No. 1 top true crime movie of all time? That big reveal is coming up next. And now more true crime movie madness. Angelina Jolie brings to life a real Hollywood mystery dating back to the 1920s. Jolie stars in "Changeling," as a woman who is reunited with her missing son, only to realize he`s an impostor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELINA JOLIE: He`s not Walter, there`s been a mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought we agreed to give him time to adjust.
JOLIE: He`s 3 inches shorter. I measured him on the chart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, maybe your measurements are off. Look, I`m sure there is a reasonable explanation for all of this.
JOLIE: He`s circumcised and Walter isn`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: And now the main event in tonight`s SHOWBIZ countdown, our No. 1 true crime movie of all time. What true crime could possibly beat a classic like "Goodfellas" or Denzel Washington and his smooth criminal best in "American Gangster?" Well, how about the true tale of a quick-thinking teenager who cons his way around the country while staying one step ahead of the FBI? Yes, the top grossing true crime movie ever, also tops our SHOWBIZ countdown. Leonardo DiCaprio`s "Catch Me If You Can."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICAPRIO: My name is Frank Taylor and I`m a co-pilot for PanAm.
HAMMER: It`s the story of an airline pilot, a lawyer.
DICAPRIO: The defendant is lying.
HAMMER: A doctor.
DICAPRIO: What seems to be the problem?
HAMMER: And an accomplished check forgerer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are so perfect, the bank doesn`t even know the difference.
HAMMER: Who also happens to be a teenage runaway.
TOM HANKS, ACTOR: He`s just a kid.
HAMMER: 2002`s "Catch Me If You Can" stars Leonardo DiCaprio as real- life legend Frank Abignale Jr., who as a teenager in the 1960s conned his way around the country, literally living a high-flying lifestyle as he was chased by an FBI agent played in the movie by Tom Hanks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Catch me If you Can" was a very special movie.
HAMMER: How special? "Catch Me If You Can," directed by Steven Spielberg, is the top grossing true crime movie ever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At every point you are expecting that plot line to be fake. And it wasn`t.
ABIGNALE: I flew about a million miles.
HAMMER: The real Frank Abignale Jr. recently told CNN one thing we didn`t really see too much of in the movie was how truly lonely he was during his life on the run.
ABIGNALE: I cried myself to sleep. Until I was 19 years old, I spent every birthday, Christmas, Mother`s Day, Father`s Day in a hotel room by myself.
HANKS: You didn`t call to apologize, did you? You had no one else to call.
HAMMER: Abignale eventually was caught and sentenced to prison. But "Catch Me If You Can" has a happy ending. Abignale went to work with the FBI, something he still does.
ABIGNALE: I teach at the FBI Academy as a way of paying back to my country that`s given me a second chance.
HAMMER: So the pursued now helps his pursuers. But thanks to "Catch Me If You Can," we`ll always be able to have fun watching Frank Abignale run.
DICAPRIO: You`re going to have to catch me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: And in a twist that is stranger than the movie, one of Frank Abignale Jr.`s sons is now an FBI agent.
Well, that`s it for the special edition of SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. I`m A.J. Hammer. Thanks for watching.
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