Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Event/Special

Soon; Senators Ask Questions Of Trump Lawyers & House Managers; The Inevitable Pattern Of Trump Turning On Officials He Head; Furious Battle Behind Scenes Over Witnesses At Trump Trial; Soon: Senators Question Legal Team Ahead Of Witness Vote; Sources: White House Has Issued Formal Threat To John Bolton To Keep Him From Publishing Book. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired January 29, 2020 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00]

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: --biggest surrogates his attorney general, he should be ashamed of himself. Michael Cohen a long time picture for Donald Trump bad lawyer. Look, you can - there is plenty more here.

One thing I want to know, not only does he turn on everyone but we're talking not about small jobs we're talking about Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense in Amadeus National Security Adviser, he trusted the these people with some of our nation's most important tasks and now suddenly he is saying they were always bad. Back to you, guys.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Chris Cillizza, thank you very much.

I'm Wolf Blitzer live in Washington alongside Jake Tapper, Anderson Cooper and Dana Bash up on Capitol Hill. This is CNN's Special Coverage of the Impeachment Trial of President Donald J. Trump.

In just about an hour we enter a brand new phase of the trial, less predictable phase where 100 U.S. Senators get to ask questions of the House Managers and Trump Legal Defense Team. But first Jake you have some important news on John Bolton and the potential at least out there that he might testify.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: That's right.CNN is breaking this story. The White House has issued a formal threat to Ambassador Bolton and his associates behind this book, the room where it happened, a White House Memoir, according to sources familiar with matter there.

They're trying to keep him from publishing the book. I asked the White House for comment. They declined and neither Bolton nor spokesman for his publisher, Simon & Shuster responded to a request for client.

This letter comes of course in the context of President Trump sending a whole bunch of tweets disparaging John Bolton today as well as John Bolton's book lawyer complaining that the vetting process has been compromised. They submitted on December 30th manuscript to the National Security Council's Records Management Division just to make sure that there's nothing classified in the book. And since then, people have commented, obviously there was the publication of "The New York Times" story but beyond that since then we've had President Trump and others talking about the content of the book.

So there is right now a real effort by President Trump not just to disparage John Bolton, not just by his allies to suggest that he's a tool of the left, there is now an official letter from the White House to Bolton and his lawyers saying they should stop publishing this book.

This book should not be published. We are trying to get a copy of this letter. We're affording more information and more comment from individuals as well as of course a copy of a letter.

BLITZER: Clearly the White House and President they're scared of what John Bolton might say.

TAPPER: They are obviously very uncomfortable with what Bolton is saying, he is alleging directly a quid pro quo which the President's defense team has said there are no first hand witnesses to attest to that fact.

That's already false because Mick Mulvaney has already said on the record that he knows President Trump wanted the security aid hold up at least in - help up at least in part because he wanted him to - President Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate the Ukraine 2016 conspiracy theory allegation.

But beyond that, this is a direct allegation by John Bolton in his book that the White House is now officially trying to stop publication of, saying, I heard President Trump say this, that the $391 million in security to Ukraine was directly tied to the President's desire to have them investigate the Bidens.

So this is a big development escalating it. We should point out President Trump is not un-litigious man; he has taken his lawyers, to write letters before seasoned his letters to try to stop the publication of books. You might remember he did that with Michael Wolf's book, originally "Fire and Fury" I think it was called...

There's a first amendment in this country, as long as no national security issues involved you really can't stop the publication of such a book.

BLITZER: You know very important reporting from Jake. Gloria, I've been told by other sources that the officials at the White House are also - they're very concerned about he would say during testimony and very concerned about his book what he writes in the book. But they're especially concerned about the contemporaneous notes that he has.

He was a very, very detailed note-taker throughout the months that he was the President's National Security Advisor.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I'm assuming those notes would be reflected in the book. What's so important about this reporting it also affects how the Senators are thinking because you have Republicans who were saying, look?

If I vote against witnesses, what if this book comes out, with all this other information that I didn't know, and then suddenly people will say to me, well, why didn't you vote for bolt - to hear Bolton?

[12:05:00]

So clearly, what the White House is trying to do by at least issuing this letter is to calm down anyone who is thinking about Bolton as a witness and say, well, you're not going to hear from him. You won't hear from him for a while.

I mean, Jake, I have no idea how successful the White House would be in this at all. They could drag out the clearance part of this for some time, couldn't they?

TAPPER: Theoretically anything is possible. But John Bolton is a very seasoned hand and I'm sure Senators take away in on this. And the people around him have long being saying there's nothing classified in the book. He knows what's classified and he knows what's not classified. This was submitted, remember, December 30th, through the process. I would be stunned actually if there was anything that was classified in the book.

RICK SANTORUM, (R) FORMER U.S. SENATOR: I understand this was probably the President saying, send a letter out, and tell them not to publish the book. I can't imagine there's any legal basis to hold this back. I disagree with Gloria. I don't think any Senator is comforted by this letter whatsoever.

I think that every Senator has come to their own conclusion as to whether the President did what he's accused of doing? And I think the overwhelming number of Senators believe that even if he did do those things--

BORGER: I'm not saying the Senator would take great comfort in it but the White House is saying, well, maybe we can delay this.

SANTORUM: I don't think any Senator is buying that.

BORGER: I'm not saying they're buying it either.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: They also seem to want the manuscript.

SANTORUM: You heard Senator Langford say, yes, let's take a look at it. And I think there is still going to be a push to take a look at.

BPRGER: So does that mean the White House doesn't want the Senators to have the manuscript?

HENDERSON: Yes, in a way this sort of puts the Kybosh on that idea, which it seems like that, was an idea it was may be gaining some attraction. They could read it and make sure there was nothing in there that sort of surprise them later and be more comfortable. JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS: But just step back from impeachment debate for a second and put yourself, you know Jake's absolutely right. The President likes to keep his lawyers busy writing letters.

SANTORUM: Long before he was President.

KING: Michael Wolf's books actually sold a lot of books and the President may have helped him by trying to getting into the face and stirring it. And John Bolton is not going to be unhappy that the President is again instigating conversations about his book and why it's so important and you might want to read it?

But forget impeachment for a minute. We're at the end of January in a Presidential election year this is not anonymous and this is not a book that you can easily just roll your eyes and say the person didn't have the courage to put their name on it.

This is someone who is very well-known in the Republican Party and in conservative circles was putting his name on the book that says the President did some horrible things, not just impeachment things but worried about dealings with autocrats.

And then there's what we don't know? It's 500 pages long and we know may be the content of 20 or 30 of those pages. If you're candidate for reelection in what is going to be a competitive election hit the scenes well, who knows what happens between now and November. This is not good for you. This is not good for you. A person with respect and credibility in your party putting his name on book that says you are a problem.

BORGER: Well, but he had respect and credibility in the party and now people are dishing him, saying that he's been taken over by the radical left, he's treasonous a liar.

KING: To the point of those meticulous notes you mentioned, I'm sure John Bolton is not unaware of communication, he worked at Fox News for a long time, he knows how to do this? B, politics, he was trying to run for President himself at one point; he has been involved in politics a long time. He knew he is going to come under attack if he wrote this book in this environment.

I'm guessing we will see those notes so that he can back up what he is saying. It doesn't mean he is right, it doesn't mean there is something to debate. But he is going to document what he says in the book because he understands this environment.

TAPPER: And to your point Senator Santorum, it doesn't mean that it is going to change one vote in the U.S. Senate.

SANTORUM: I don't think it's going to change any vote.

TAPPER: Coming up, Senator Majority Leader Mitch McConnell admits that he does not have the votes right now to block subpoenas for witnesses or further evidence. Moments ago at a signing event for the U.S/Mexico/Canada trade deal, the President Trump joked about needing Republican support.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I want to jus if I could mention that we do have some incredible people that worked so hard, Senators, and maybe I'm being just nice to them because I want their vote. Does that make sense? I don't want to leave anybody out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Now let's bring in Dana Bash; she is up on Capitol Hill, Dana. What are you hearing about where the vote count stands when it comes to witnesses?

DANA BASH, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The "To'ing and Fro'ing", arm twisting, quiet meetings are happening as we speak, Wolf and Jake. I'm here with the King of the Hill Manu Raju, our colleague who is everywhere at the same time. I'm not sure how you do that?

But first of all, let's just start with what Jake was reporting about John Bolton and the white House threatening him please do not publish this manuscript. My understanding is that Bolton does not have anything classified or doesn't believe he has anything classified in the book. They sent it to the NFC as a courtesy. Andin fact his lawyer in the letter on December 30th when they sent the manuscript said just that.

But on the question of Senators and how this will impact them, Lindsey Graham issued a warning of his own to the President today on this very issue of John Bolton.

MANU RAJU, CNNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he warned going after John Bolton may not be the wisest move. He's concerned that efforts to undercut his credibility may encourage some Senators to say, look, let's get him up here and talking so we can judge his credibility for himself.

[12:10:00]

RAJU: This comes of course at an urgent time because they're trying to ensure that Republicans don't break rank. They don't vote with Democrats to move forward on witnesses. Republican leadership at the moment is optimistic and cautiously that they can get to that point of blocking witnesses from going forward.

And I talked to one Republican Leader, John Barrasso, of Wyoming who told me that, he is confident that the consent forming within the conference that time to prevent any witnesses from coming forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BARRASSO, (R-WYOMING): Clearly ending this we have 17 witnesses already in the House. I don't think there's any need for additional witnesses. The American public isn't paying attention anymore. They know we need to end this and get back to the work of stopping drugs and highways to be built. Even if the book is true, it doesn't rise to the level of impeachment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So ultimately as you know, Dana, the key question is where those four votes are? We expect Susan Collins, Mitt Romney likely to vote for that motion to move forward on witnesses. Lisa Murkowski uncertain she said she is curious and wants to hear from John Bolton but she just had a meeting with Mitch McConnell for 30 minutes.

BASH: That is fascinating. Tell us about that, it was just a one-on- one meeting?

RAJU: Just this morning and she refused to comment. I asked her, are you till curious about hearing from John Bolton? Do you want to hear from him still? She said, I am just not commenting on this right now. I will deal with this later. She wants to hear the question period first.

We will see if that means that she is changing her mind on this and we don't know. And also Lamar Alexander, as you knows a wild card here someone who is close to Mitch McConnell, Senate institutionalists. He is not showing his cards at all any way. Even I'm told in the closed door meeting with a conference yesterday. He didn't say or he didn't speak up, not saying anything, reading the press documents.

So the fact they're not committing to moving forward does give the republican leadership some hope that they will defeat this motion but of course a lot of meetings yet to be had.

BASH: Everything changes almost by the minute. The last I talked to Senior Republican sources here hearing the same, they're feeling a little bit more bullish and a little bit more confident on the notion they can defeat the idea of bringing witnesses up.

Mostly, because there is a feeling, whether they're going to be right in the end or not, that Lamar Alexander, in particular, who could be, depending where Lisa Murkowski goes, the 51st vote, is so close with Mitch McConnell.

As you said, is retiring, would think of his legacy, particularly as somebody who was a Senator from Tennessee where the President is extremely popular, and not vote against the party and his President.

But there's also a possibility that they could just be - it could be wishful thinking on their part. You don't know how somebody who is going to retire, who doesn't have to answer to voters anymore and more of an institutionists and somebody who follows his moral compass will go.

RAJU: Exactly. That's why people who have been very close to them say they don't know exactly where he will ultimately come down because of those two things that are essentially in conflict right now.

But one thing that is weighing on Senators including him undoubtedly are concerns of a number of Republicans, particularly ones who are running for reelection, concern that adding more witnesses. One witness could lead two witnesses, that could lead to additional witnesses or court fight that Jake is reporting today.

May be there was another court fight if the White House decides to invoke executive privilege, that leads to a week long delay that's been the warning the Republican Leaders have been issuing. Mitch McConnell issuing to his members, and saying that look, the longer this goes on the more it hurts the chances of those vulnerable Republican Senators to win reelection.

And that could ultimately hurt their ability to keep the Senate. That could weigh on those wild card Senators as well and of course that arguments can be made too increasingly in the coming days.

BASH: And a fun fact when we see this vote on the witnesses on Friday, guess whose first name to be called, Lamar Alexander, Alphabetical. So we could hear early on how it will go.

RAJU: Thanks Dana.

BASH: We will take a short break. We're going to have a lot more on the President's Impeachment Trial and specifically on John Bolton and new White House threats CNN is reporting to get him to stop, cease and desist, do not publish the book. Stay with us.

(COMMECIAL BREAK)

[12:15:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back our breaking news sources telling CNN the White House has issued a formal threat to Former National Security Adviser John Bolton, to keep him from publishing his upcoming book. We're not getting any public comment on this from the White House Bolton or his book publisher. The President has tweeted a slew of personal attacks on Bolton just today.

As for Bolton's response, he simply liked to reply to one of President Trump's tweets that said, Mr. President, you should fire the moron ho hired John Bolton. He's the real idiot. Our Kaitlan Collins at the White House Kaitlan, National Security Council still has a copy of this book correct?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes they do. It's still going through the review process which is supposed to make sure classified materials not published in op-eds or books something of this nature. And this morning, the current National Security Adviser Robert O'Brien who came into the position after John Bolton said that it is still going through that process.

But Anderson, he won't answer questions about whether or not he is personally involved. Though I did have sources telling us earlier, the week that if something of this nature this big went into the records this management office they would likely contact the National Security Advisor how to handle it? Now he said he was confident that this leak did not come from NSC. He still said that no one outside of the NSC has seen it. That's been

a big debate and was yesterday when we asked the sources close to the President's Legal Team whether or not they had seen or reviewed a draft of the manuscript? They would only say they had not reviewed it Anderson, but they would not say they had not been briefed on it which is notable on several fronts.

Now all of this is going on of course we've come a really long way from on Sunday night when "The New York Times" first reported on this manuscript and the White House Legal Team was essentially sent into a panic mode. They were being bombarded with calls from Republican Senators who were furious they wanted to know more.

[12:20:00]

COLLINS: And now you're starting to see exactly how they're going to deal with this with the President discrediting Bolton. They're telling Senators not to be worried about what he's writing in these claims in this book. And then of course now they're trying to tell him not to publish this book although it's really unlikely that the publisher of this book is going to listen to that since it's likely already getting ready to be printed in March when it's coming out.

Now of course as all of this is going on and as they are seeking to discredit John Bolton it is notable that the Former Chief of staff is coming to his side here and saying that John Bolton is someone trustworthy, honest and should be heard from on this matter.

I want to point out that John Kelly and John Bolton were not always two people who got along when they worked together in the West Wing. We once reported n a fight that they got in it was so ugly, people in the White House could hear them shouting profanities at one another yet still Kelly says that John Bolton is someone who should be heard from.

COOPER: Well, it also Stephanie Grisham has gone out of her weight to trash John Kelly's since John Kelly left the White House. It's fascinating to me how this White House is just routinely goes after people who used to work there?

COLLINS: Yes, anyone who comes out of the White House and often tries to get a realistic account of what happened when they were here? Sometimes it's obviously negative because there are a lot of clashes that happened in the west wing. Unless they write a glowing book like Sean Spicer type they gets the Presidential Tweet, you often see it resulting in something like this.

Often with the President threatening litigation, something he has fallen back on time and time again with - publishing her books, that's other officials have published their books. And that's really there in though here, when it comes to that. And it is just notable of course seeing Republicans go against John Bolton and Democrats siding with him on Capitol Hill, which if you're at all familiar with Washington, is not how it has been for the last two decades.

COOPER: Yes, Kaitlan Collins thanks very much. Appreciate it. The panel is back with me. Just from a legal standpoint, does Bolton's publisher have to wait for this NSA review, National Security Council?

ROSS GARBER, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, so Bolton said he didn't think anything in the book was classified. He submitted it to the NSA--

COOPER: NSC.

GARBER: The fact that he submitted it suggests he does want to be safe about it. With respect to this letter that the White House apparently sent, one of the things that are unclear is, when it was sent. Was it sent today, yesterday, several days ago, was it part of this review process, presumably, Bolton was inviting the White House--

COOPER: IF it's sent more recently than - some people wouldn't view it as potential intimidation.

GARBER: Perhaps. But if it was sent, you know, a day or two or several days ago, that might suggest it was part of this back and forth that Bolton invited with seeking review.

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Two quick points. One, I bet their drafting letter reason we can't see it yet, there's an open space that says insert legal argument here, legal justification. There wouldn't be one if there was no classified information inside of it. You can prefer they don't actually write it but you can't stop them if there's foundational basis tied to classified information national security otherwise.

COOPER: But if they're going to make an executive privilege argument or at least rattle that saber, can they use that as a reason not to publish? He's a former - he can reveal whatever he wants to reveal, can't he?

COATES: He can actually right now rather than having written a book, just sit here and tell you everything he was going to say in the book and you couldn't be able to stop that but for a classification issue. The second idea here is where is the legal strategy behind this? It was actually more prudent for the defense to say, even if, so what?

That air of being dismissive is more effective than now drawing attention and putting the wind back in the sails to say, this person is really afraid what this person might say outside of these pages.

COOPER: What's interesting to me is that, nobody has their attorneys write this kind of letter, threatening letter, don't publish this without running through the various scenarios and one of the scenario is this kind of a letter just gives more attention and gives more weight to what Bolton has to say.

The fact that they went ahead and sent it anyway, knowing that - one way to look at it, it gives an indication how seriously concerned they are about what's in the Bolton book?

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, I think the problem that the President faces is that he has more audiences than he's used to. He is not accustomed to swing Republican Senators in Congress. He knows about never-Trumpers, he hates them. He knows about democrats, he can't work with them.

[12:25:00]

NAFTALI: It's these swing Senators. One of the reasons why this is a bad strategy, I don't know whether it is a good legal strategy, bad political strategy, there is people who don't want to be part of a cover-up. This kind of letter is sending a signal that the President is afraid.

I don't think it's helpful to Murkowski, Lamar Alexander, Collins, Romney, that the President is basically saying, we don't want anybody to see this. They know they have an obligation in a trial to see it.

GARBER: But the question is whether there actually genuinely is classified information in the manuscript.

COOPER: That's what it boils down. That is the only way to stop it.

NAFTALI: That's the question.

COOPER: Still ahead. We'll explain exactly how the question and answer session is going to work in previous of the questions the Senators are planning to ask. Plus, we'll be joined live by coach who was at Kobe Bryant's Mamba Academy when the news broke of the tragedy. What she told to the players?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:30:00]