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CNN TONIGHT: Sen. Graham In New Tape On Trump, Capitol Attack: "He Plays The TV Game And He Went Too Far Here"; CNN Projects Trump- Backed Rep. Mooney Wins West Virginia GOP Primary; Reports: Tom Brady Gets $375 Million Contract To Join Fox Sports After Retirement. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired May 10, 2022 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: So far, the Trump-backed Congressman Alex Mooney, is leading, in the West Virginia's second congressional race, over David McKinley. With 55 percent of precincts in, Alex Mooney has 51.7 percent of the vote. David McKinley, 38.1 percent.
We'll continue to follow the numbers, as they come in. Let's hand it over to Laura Coates and CNN TONIGHT.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Thanks, Anderson. We'll keep an eye on what's going on, in just a moment here, as well.
And I am Laura Coates. And this is CNN TONIGHT, on another very intriguing Election Night in America. And we're about to explain to you just why that is.
We're awaiting more results of some key primary races of the 2022 election cycle. Now, polls closed, literally just seconds ago, in Nebraska, and a short while ago, in West Virginia.
We've got the one and only, our own Election King, with us, at the Magic Wall, monitoring it all. John King will be with us, in just a moment, to break it all down.
Now, I said they're key races. And that's because well, the outcomes of these contests, in these two deep red States, could be harbingers of many other GOP races to come. Why is that? Because it all might come down to the power of one, Donald Trump, again.
The question will be does the former President still have as tight a grip, on his party, when he's out of office, and also post- Insurrection, as he did before the events that led to his, well, his second impeachment?
That seems to be the case with at least two top Republican leaders. Both were once caught on tape, denouncing Trump, and what happened on January 6. In fact, listen to this new audio that just came out of Senator Lindsey Graham, right after the Capitol attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): He's misjudged the passion, he plays the TV game and he went too far here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRAHAM: That rally didn't help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRAHAM: Talking about primarying Liz [Cheney]. And he created a sense of revenge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: As they say, that was then. He also said that he had well enough is enough. Remember that? Well, now Graham keeps saying that the GOP can't move forward without Trump.
And remember, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, he heaped some high praise, on Trump, just last night, even referring to Donald Trump, as the Republicans' secret weapon, on a stage they shared together, after his own audio was leaked, once saying that Trump should resign.
And then, there's the new warning from one of Trump's former cabinet members, that the Commander-in-Chief that he once worked for is, quote, a threat to democracy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS HOST: Do you think Donald Trump was a threat to democracy?
MARK ESPER, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP: I think that, given the events of January 6th, given how he has undermined the election results, he incited people to come to D.C.? To me, that threatens our democracy.
BAIER: So, yes?
ESPER: I think the answer would that - what else can you conclude?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: "What else can you conclude?" he says. That's quite an indictment from a former Defense Secretary, and one that was actually picked by Donald Trump.
And then, what about this new big headline? Remember, after the attack, on the Capitol, former President was permanently suspended from Twitter, for violating the platform's rules against violence incitement.
But now, Elon Musk, the billionaire, who could soon own the social media giant, if the deal closes, says if he does run it, he would reverse that permanent ban on Trump.
So, it seems that Trump remains the connective tissue, here, which brings us right back to how he might impact these primary races.
In Nebraska, Trump's pick for governor, is Charles Herbster. And he's a wealthy businessman, facing a slew of sexual misconduct allegations. And Trump has been dismissing the women's accounts.
And in West Virginia, two sitting members of Congress, now find themselves running against each other, for one House seat. Trump's backed the candidate, who voted to help him overturn the 2020 election. That's Alex Mooney. And not David McKinley, because he's the guy, who voted for a bipartisan January 6th commission.
So, who will come out on top? And what could it all mean, for Trump, not only in November, but also beyond? Let's go straight to John King, live at the Magic Wall.
John, what are you seeing there?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Laura, what we're seeing, in West Virginia, where we have results, we're about 55 percent right now, is that Trump-backed candidate, Republican congressman Alex Mooney, opening in nearly 15 point lead here, over the other Republican incumbent, David McKinley.
West Virginia lost a seat, after the 2020 census. So, you have these two Republican incumbents, running against each other, in this district, here, in the northern half of the state.
McKinley has the backing of most of the Republican Establishment, including the Republican governor. He has the backing for Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, who shot a TV ad, for David McKinley. But a lot of Democrats don't like to hear this. Some Republicans don't like to hear this.
But here you have, again, just like last Tuesday night, Laura, when we spoke proof of the power, of a Trump endorsement, at the moment.
We haven't called this race yet. It's still at 55 percent. But over the last hour or so, this lead has gradually and steadily increased. 7,000 vote lead, now for Alex Mooney. Again, 53 percent, if you round up to 37 percent. We're not done counting yet.
But this was one of Trump's best States. He won every county, against Joe Biden, in West Virginia, two years ago. And it looks, not at the Finish Line yet, but it certainly looks like, yet again, the power of a Trump endorsement, whether you like him or not, at home, still has a lot of sway, in Republican primaries, especially, in these very pro- Trump States, like West Virginia.
We're still waiting for votes to come in, in Nebraska.
COATES: Now, John, just want to clear. And of the states coming in, of the counties still coming in to report, those went to Trump previously in the elections, they're going to probably go the same direction, of those who he endorsed?
KING: You have to be careful about that in the West Virginia race, because you do have two established Republican incumbents. Most of the new district, in West Virginia, actually is McKinley's old district. It just shows you the power of Trump, without a doubt.
I switched over to Nebraska, and the governor's race, just to get a sense, Laura. But we have not - not much you can say about this, right now.
Brett Lindstrom, who's not endorsed by Trump, or the Republican Establishment. He's a state senator, third candidate. He's ahead of them all. But this is just 8 percent of the vote. Jim Pillen, you see it, inching, as I speak. We're up to 21 percent of the vote.
Lindstrom leading though, at the moment. Jim Pillen is the candidate of the Republican Establishment. He's endorsed by the current governor, who's term-limited, Governor Ricketts, who can't run again.
Trump's candidate is Charles Herbster, the businessman. He's at 18 percent, so far. But again, as you can see, these votes are mostly coming in, in the Lincoln and the Omaha area, right now. We got a long way to go.
But it is, Laura - we talked about this last week. We had the primary, in Ohio, last week. We have Nebraska, and West Virginia, tonight.
We have Pennsylvania to come. Next week, Georgia. The week after that, a few others as well. By the end of the month, we'll have a much better sense of how much sway, Donald Trump still has, over grassroots Republican voters.
Big debate here, in Washington. I know you had the Lindsey Graham tape, the Esper interview, there. So some of the big names in the party are still debating Trump.
But what matters most to us, in this election year, and then heading into 2024, is what do Republican voters think? Do they still follow his lead? We'll have a better answer, at the end of tonight, and certainly at the end of the month.
COATES: John King, thank you.
And, of course, I want to bring in our panel here, Dana Bash, David Chalian, and Abby Phillip, as we dig into these returns.
And, of course, I'll pick up, where John left off, because if you're thinking about how things begin, say with someone like a Lindsey Graham, or a Kevin McCarthy, these audiotapes reveal that where you begin is not ultimately where you end up. So, we'll see how these elections fare out.
Dana, if I can go to you, on this point? Because typically, with someone like Lindsey Graham, you have to wonder, is there anyone, whose opinion is going to sway the electorate?
I mean, you've got Lindsey Graham, making the comments that he has. You've got people like Kevin McCarthy. You've got people like Esper. Not just Esper. You've got John Bolton, who made comments, James Mattis, Rex Tillerson, the list really goes on and on.
Is there anyone, who has any sway that could, well, trump Trump's?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The short answer is no. Not for this core, at least, in days like today, on days like today, primary voting electorate, especially when you're talking about ruby red States. We are waiting for results in both of the States, that we're watching, both West Virginia and Nebraska.
But I think the answer to your question lies in the changes that we've seen, in the public statements, from Lindsey Graham, and Kevin McCarthy. Mike (ph) Esper is in his own category.
And the changes are that despite what their reaction was, the very human reaction, in the immediate days, and hours and days, after January 6th, they realized that the political winds weren't changing, in their own party. And so, they went back to full-on Trumpism.
COATES: I mean, this idea, Abby, of enough being enough, to paraphrase what Lindsey Graham had to say, it is true, sort of the Mary Poppins, "I'll stay as long as the wind doesn't change directions."
And there, we have! It didn't change directions. They essentially are saying, they're in this particular area here. The mom in me has to quote Mary Poppins!
But I have to ask you, about this, Abby, because one of the people that Donald Trump is endorsing, in Nebraska, has allegations of misconduct, against him. Now, this is kind of a little bit more familiar, in recent modern American political times, about the idea of testing the morality, for example, of a particular party.
The Republicans, I know, used to be the party of moral values. And then, you've got this person, Charles Herbster, who is backed by Trump. Trump explaining away the behavior or dismissive of it.
What does this tell you, about the impact to something like this? Particularly, we're talking about not - we're not really out of the MeToo era. We remember the allegations of previously - in previous incumbents and the like. Is this indicative of something bigger?
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, I think, first of all, Trump is not one to rule out, an endorsement, based off of allegations of misconduct, really, of any kind, but certainly not sexual misconduct.
On multiple occasions, he's either endorsed a candidate, with allegations, against him, or has seriously considered endorsing candidates, with allegations of misconduct against them. That's just how he operates. He doesn't view those things as particularly important. [21:10:00]
And this will be a test though about whether or not voters in Nebraska agree. I think that Trump himself has been able to blow past a lot of things, like this, controversies of all kinds, because Republican voters give him the benefit of the doubt.
It's just not as clear whether that will be extended, to someone, whose name is not actually Trump. And that's part of what we are going to be testing tonight, with this election in Nebraska. How much does it really matter, to rank-and-file voters?
In some of these races, let's say, Ohio, for example, the most recent one, Trump's candidate won. But in a race, in which you had multiple other candidates, who got plenty of votes, too.
So, his endorsement is giving people a bit of an edge. But can it overcome and overwhelming a disadvantage? We don't know that yet. And that's one of the things that we're waiting to find out.
COATES: Interesting. We're all talking here, David, about Republicans, and the Republican base, in part.
But Nebraska is a kind of interesting example, here. Because there was more than 8,000 Democrats, and Independents, who actually appear to have registered as Republicans, to be engaged, in this particular primary.
Does that tell us more about that maybe Trump is a galvanizing force, for Democrats, and Independents, to turn out to vote to, in a de facto, for the primary general election?
DAVID CHALIAN, VICE PRESIDENT AND CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: I don't know. I think that probably tells us a bit more about how deeply red Nebraska is, and that the Republican nominee is likely to be the next Governor of Nebraska.
And so, if you want to sort of participate in that process, especially when a candidate, like Brett Lindstrom, who you're looking, right now, with 21 percent of the voting, is in the lead, is making sort of a moderate appeal.
He's very much appealing, to those folks, saying, "Hey, this is an area for the Republican Party. Perhaps that will work for you. Change your registration, come on over, so, be part of this process." I think it probably has more to say about that, than it has to say about Trump, as a galvanizing force, for Democrats, Laura.
But that is not to say Trump is not a galvanizing force, for Democrats. In fact, there's a bit of a debate, inside the Democratic Party, right now, about how much to lean into Trump, as a boogeyman, this fall, as they're trying to deal with this very tough political environment.
Because of inflation, because of President Biden's standing in the polls, that there's this debate, inside of like, how much can Democrats use Trump, when he's not actually on the ballot, as a way to bring back some of those--
CHALIAN: --independent suburban voters that's sort of pushed away from the Republican Party, in the Trump era?
COATES: And, of course, we're talking West Virginia, as their polling - or results are coming in, from that particular thing, and wonder about who has the most influence going forward, as well. We know that, of course, from John's conversation that even Senator Manchin has weighed in, in favor of a Republican primary candidate, here.
So, a lot more to get to there. We'll have you back on, Dana, David, and Abby, thank you so much.
COATES: Coming up, brand-new details emerging, from the Alabama fugitive manhunt that ended, yesterday, in Indiana, with the capture of an escaped convict, and with an ex-correction officer's death.
We've got new dashcam video, released, of Casey White, being taken into custody. Back in a moment, with the Sheriff, on that case, on what was found in their possession, how they managed to escape and, well, stay on the run, for so long. That's next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
TEXT: BREAKING NEWS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Breaking news. CNN can now project that Representative Alex Mooney has defeated Representative David McKinley, in the GOP primary, in West Virginia's 2nd congressional district. Congressman Mooney had the endorsement of former President Trump.
I want to go to, and bring in Dana Bash, now, talking about the reaction to what's going on.
Dana, what does this tell you, about the fact that a Trump-endorsed candidate, yet another one, has now become a primary victor?
BASH: That the Trump endorsement matters a lot, in places, like West Virginia, where the Trump brand, the Trump persona, is one of the most, if not the most important aspect of the GOP.
You got to remember that West Virginia is the place, where Donald Trump did the best, except for Wyoming. So, he had an enormous, enormous lead, over at the end, after Election Day 2020, over Joe Biden. It has become an increasingly red state, an increasingly, Trump state. And his endorsement of Congressman Mooney, clearly, it mattered.
And it is noteworthy that the Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, as we talked about earlier, put himself on the line, by endorsing the Congressman's opponent, somebody who he said, he had a relationship with, for 40 years. But also most importantly, because of the, in his words to Manu Raju, lies that were being told, about the record.
And it really came down to fealty, on January 6, and on the election, and more recently about having the notion of voting for a bipartisan compromise bill, on infrastructure, which you would think, especially in a state like West Virginia, Laura, which has a very long history of bringing home the bacon, that would have been a slam-dunk, politically. Not in the Trump era! Not in a Republican primary!
COATES: And it seems - of course, I want to bring in John King, into the conversation, and get his take on what we are seeing, from the reports, and what came in.
Because, of course, as she mentioned, Senator Joe Manchin did talk about Mooney as being potential outsider. Didn't seem to be the case here, for the primary voters.
KING: It did not. And if you look at this? Again, these are two incumbent Republican congressmen. Two incumbent Republican congressman.
And David McKinley, about 60 percent of this new district is his old district. So, if there was any geographic advantage, it was to McKinley, not Mooney. But, again, as Dana noted, the Republican governor, was for McKinley. The Democratic Senator Joe Manchin was for McKinley. McKinley is getting beat by 14 points, 15 points here, right now.
CNN has now projected this race, Laura. We're still counting the votes. But we're up to two-thirds, and it's 52 percent to 38 percent, if you round that up. That's 14 points.
And, again, I said this at the top, a lot of people at home, say, "Stop talking about Trump." Donald Trump is the most dominant force, in one of America's two leading political parties. And he is proving it, again, in this year's primary campaigns.
And so, for the people, out there, who want to stop talking about Trump, now, that's not up to us. We have to cover these races, where Trump's endorsement, is clearly making a difference, in West Virginia, tonight, just as it did in Ohio, last week.
We're going to have the Nebraska governor's race, later tonight, as those results come in. And then Pennsylvania Senate race, Georgia, both the governor's race, the Secretary of State's race, there. Arkansas, there are some Trump factors as well. So, he is a factor in the party. For a lot of people at home, who don't want to talk about him, and wish he would go away? He is not going away. And he is the dominant force, in the Republican Party, right now.
What we're going to learn a lot more, about tonight, and throughout the month, is how dominant. And are there Republicans willing to stand up and fight him? Will Republican voters?
This is not about Congressman Mooney or Congressman McKinley. This is about the men and women, who vote, in these Republican primaries, in places, like West Virginia and elsewhere. Do they still want Donald Trump? Do they still want to take a cue from him?
So, when you see this tonight, there's just - it's just - it's unmistakable. Donald Trump endorsed Alex Mooney. David McKinley is a veteran congressman, there, who had a lot of Establishment support. And he's losing. And he's losing convincingly, as these votes come in.
COATES: I want to go back to Dana here too, because also important about the why, there was the endorsement, in my mind. Because, as John talks about, it's not just the idea of Donald Trump, having endorsed. It was the why.
It was the idea of this particular candidate, not supporting the January 6th, bipartisan or - they say, it's not bipartisan. But, in fact, it is bipartisan. We got two Republicans, who were on the committee. The idea of the infrastructure package, as well.
Bipartisanship, a liability, anti the January 6 committee, that is as much as the equation, here, in the calculus, for the voters, it seems, as who did the endorsing, as the why, right, Dana?
BASH: That's so true. And it's not even just a bipartisan - the bipartisan committee. It was a commission.
BASH: It was the fact that Congressman McKinley deigned to support independence, to find out what really happened, on January 6, when he and his colleagues were under attack, and democracy itself was under attack. And, of course, that bipartisan bill.
So yes, it's the combination of supporting, or at least, not turning away from the Big Lie of 2020. But also doing Donald Trump's bidding.
Because, on that infrastructure bill, the bipartisan infrastructure bill, this is the kind of legislation that then-President Trump was trying to get done, but couldn't, for a variety of reasons. And because it would have been, and was, Joe Biden's victory, in a bipartisan way, Donald Trump came out against it.
It's not because he all of a sudden woke up, and said, "Oh, I think big spending is a bad idea," or "Oh, I think building bridges and tunnels and roads and fixing the crumbling infrastructure of America is a bad idea." No. It's because he didn't want Joe Biden to have victory.
And there were a lot of Republicans, who disagreed, because they thought this is the area, where we think we can work in a bipartisan way. But that was a political death sentence, for McKinley. One of the main reasons. But certainly, there were others.
COATES: I got to tell you. I mean, if given all the commentary, about partisan stalemate, the irritation, within the electorate, about things not getting done, if bipartisanship becomes a political liability? I don't know what that bodes for the future of democracy, frankly. There must be other ways, to counteract it.
Dana Bash, John King, stay close.
COATES: Coming up, more, new details emerging, from the Alabama fugitive manhunt that ended yesterday, dramatically, in Indiana. Everyone is talking about this case, all across this country. Back in a moment, with the Sheriff, who knows this case best. Next.
COATES: And now, from a story that has captured the nation's attention.
Because, moments from now, the escaped prisoner, who eluded authorities, for 11 days, is going to be back in Alabama, appearing in court for his arraignment hearing. Casey White has been transported from Indiana, where he was hiding out, with corrections officer, the late Vicky White.
This is dashcam footage of his capture.
The two were not related, even though Casey did refer to the officer as, quote, his wife. She was discovered with a gunshot wound, apparently self-inflicted.
Listen to this moment, at the end of the chase, just after officers reached the car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's poke - let's go ahead and pop - let's go and pop this front windshield here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's got the gun in her hand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's still breathing (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: She later died, in the hospital. Police also found several weapons, wigs, and $29,000 in cash. Officials are saying that the 38- year-old prisoner, who escaped, back on April 29, was allegedly planning to get into a shootout, with Police, if he hadn't had his car rammed, by law enforcement.
Lauderdale County Alabama Sheriff Rick Singleton says Vicky White was, quote, basically the mastermind, behind the whole plan. And he joins us now.
Sheriff Singleton, thank you for being here. It did not end, I'm sure the way you were hoping. I know you had questions that you wanted to ask of the person that you used to work with. And yet, the tragedy, of not knowing, might be all we have.
SHERIFF RICK SINGLETON, LAUDERDALE COUNTY, ALABAMA: That's right. Well all the questions we had may never be answered, now.
The main question was, for Vicky, of being the kind of employee, she had been, for all those years, what in the world, possessed her to pull a stunt like this? The only conclusion, I guess, we can come to, at this point, is just a jailhouse romance.
COATES: I have to wonder about that, because it seemed as though a lot of it, in her position - people have questions. How did she - how did this not go noticed, for so long?
SINGLETON: Well, she absolutely exploited her position, her authority, within the facility. Second in command, over operations, she coordinated all the transports through the jail.
She knew Friday morning was one of the busiest mornings, for inmates, to be transferred, to the courthouse, for court hearings. Friday mornings can get quite chaotic, with inmates coming and going, all morning, back-and-forth to court.
She was able to assign the deputies, to two vans, at one time, to get them all out of the detention center, and up here at the courthouse.
And it wasn't unusual, for her to put one inmate in her car, and bring them to the court, if the judge, at the last minute, say, "Hey, I need to see this inmate or whatever." But typically, that'd be somebody for something like public intoxication, or shoplifting, or some minor offense.
We had a very strict policy that anyone with a capital murder would be escorted by two deputies. And--
COATES: I mean, yes.
SINGLETON: --but, there again--
COATES: I was going to say, Sheriff, I mean, just the idea of capital murder. He was serving decades in prison. That was the sentence of him, now being on trial, for yet another murder - or murder.
I wonder, there obviously were some guardrails, as you say that have been - should have been put in place? Are you aware that there really was a romance? Were there other inmates, who knew something that we - or you did not know, at the time?
And are there ways, going forward, to try to uncover that information, as to who knew what, when? Maybe other employees in the same facility or anything like that? Was it really completely blindsiding to all of you?
SINGLETON: I think it was. I don't think any employee had any knowledge about what she was about to pull.
We did interview inmates, the day after. And we received information from them that he was getting special treatment. By that, they were talking about that she would give him cigarettes, which is against policy. She would give him extra food on his tray. Those kinds of things. And, of course, as big as he was, no one challenged him, about those things.
But she absolutely used her position, to get him out of that facility. And they obviously had a six-hour lead on us.
Typically, if someone was to be in court, we would have missed that person, much sooner, because when they call the docket, and then that person wasn't there, then we would have immediately known.
Because him not actually being on the docket, or having a scheduled court appearance, then he wasn't missed, at the courthouse, because he wasn't supposed to be here, to start with.
COATES: Is that why you consider her the mastermind, you've called her? The idea of being able to know methodically all these different things, the six-hour lead time, I mean, the idea of putting in for her retirement, the $29,000 in cash. These aren't things that actual normal inmate would actually have on hand.
And you mentioned his size. I mean, I kept going back, and saying, how can this - I think, it was six foot nine, if not mistaken? How does this extraordinarily large individual, along with her, able to evade for so long? It had to have been quite methodical, in being able to plan this.
SINGLETON: Well, it was. Of course, she had the assets. You know, for most people, who escape from a county jail, it's sort of an opportunity kind of situation. They see an opportunity. They take advantage of it. And sometimes, they plan them. But they don't usually - they don't have any plans, once they get outside.
They certainly don't have the resources that Vicky and Casey White had. Money, a getaway car, a change of clothes, and the cover of all this, in and out at the jail, on court date. But he was able to manipulate all of that, and to her advantage. And they were able to pull it off. COATES: Well, Sheriff, she may have been able to do that as well. But now you've got somebody in you're - about to be in your custody, yet again, who of course, has now escaped one of the facilities.
What's going to happen next? Will he be in confinement? Will there be greater protocols, safety-wise, to ensure that he does not - isn't able to leave again?
SINGLETON: Well, actually, tonight, he'll be arriving here, within the next hour and a half or so. He will be immediately cared, before a judge, for his arraignment hearing.
As soon as that's over, he'll be loaded back up in the transport vans, and moved to the Alabama Department of Corrections, which is about two hours south of here. He will not be in our facility tonight.
The day will come, when he will have to be brought back, because of the trial, coming up, on his capital murder charges. I can assure you, there will be extra precautions, taken, when he's in our facility.
COATES: Sheriff Rick Singleton, thank you so much.
SINGLETON: Thank you.
COATES: The next questions, of course, is what now for the investigation? We're going to dig deeper into how this all happened, what safeguards should be put in place, so it can never happen again, in other instances, and really, probably get into the psychology and the mindset of this ex-guard, who seemed to have given her life, for this escape. Next.
COATES: We're discussing the latest, in the case of the escaped prisoner, Casey White. He's finally headed back to Alabama, in custody, after running off, with a female corrections officer, a 11 days ago.
Joining me now is former U.S. Marshal and former federal corrections officer, Craig Caine. And criminologist, Casey Jordan.
I'm glad you're both here. Because, I got to tell you, people are really riveted, by what's happened here. And it's playing out, in many respects, kind of like a movie. And, of course, there's the tragedy, and a loss of life, not only from the person, who was supposed to be the person in - as a corrections officer, but also fled with him.
And I want to begin with you, Casey. Because, I'm curious about the sort of psychology, behind this, the idea of what might motivate, to answer the question of what the Sheriff said, what in the world would have possessed her, to engage in this behavior? What do you think?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST, PROFESSOR, WESTERN CONNECTICUT STATE UNIVERSITY: Well, the conclusion he came to was jailhouse romance.
And, I think, the public is getting used to this new phrase, we're bantering about, called hybristophilia, which is the sexual and emotional attraction, of a person, but usually, a woman to a heinous or violent criminal, usually a man.
And there's a number of reasons why women are attracted to bad boys, especially in prison. And sometimes, it's fame. But, in this particular case, I think that she really believed that she was in love with him. Maybe she thought she understood him, and nobody else did. Maybe she thought she could fix him, or save him.
But she was experiencing what we would call limerence, that kind of tingly romantic feeling that teenagers feel, when they're in love, to the point that she would sacrifice her job, her pension, sell her house, liquidate everything, sell it for half its value, go on the lam with him, with apparently no real end game, no great plan, and be willing to die in a shootout, if necessary, if that's what it took to enjoy the - what I'd consider to be probably the most exciting 10 days of her life.
COATES: Is that inconsistent with her being called a mastermind? It sounds as though she's being led by a vulnerability. Is that - can that happen as well, and be the mastermind, and have those emotions that you're talking about?
JORDAN: Well, I don't know if mastermind, considering it only lasted 10 days, would fit. But she was definitely a planner. This was probably two years, in the making.
They know that she was calling him, while he was in prison that, his whole confession was probably a ploy, so that he could get transferred, back to the jail, where she was working, so that this entire walkout, it wasn't even an escape, could take place.
But the fact that she sold her house, got $96,000 in cash, of which only $29,000 was left, when they were caught, bought the cars, got fake ID, so she could buy them under an alias, got wigs, bought him a change of clothes? This was a long-term plan.
I think the big question, we have, at this point, Laura, is what was the end game? Did they - where - how does this end? Was it always going to end in a shootout? Or did they think they were going to get to Canada? Did they have a safe house?
JORDAN: I think these interviews are going to reveal a lot, once we find out what Casey White has to say.
COATES: Something she said - and I want to turn to you, Craig, on this.
Because the prosecutor, in me, when I hear a statement that perhaps the confession, to the crime, to which he will have a trial, involving the murder of another woman that maybe that was not a true confession or one that was part of the overall scheme? As a prosecutor, I have concerns about the ability, and the viability of that case, going forward, now.
But I know, from a different perspective, you must have concerns, about the viability of the safety protocols that are in place, there. I mean, the idea, the Sheriff has said Craig, that she was essentially able to break out Casey White, the protocols or guardrails that should have been in place, no longer there, or were not followed and able to lead to this?
What changes do you think need to be made, going forward, to avoid what has happened here?
CRAIG CAINE, FORMER U.S. MARSHAL, FORMER FEDERAL CORRECTIONS OFFICER: Hi, Laura.
Well, first of all, these inmates, they have nothing to lose. So, they will study every officer that's in the facility. And they will find the weakest link that they could possibly exploit. So, they're very manipulative, they're scheming, cunning, and you can't put anything past them.
As far as the - you know, maybe he found, in Vicky, the weak link. And he wooed her. And now, she fell for his trap. Or maybe she just fell in love with him. I mean, these are questions now, with her not being here anymore, we might not ever know.
As far as protocol, when I - before I became a Deputy U.S. Marshal, I worked in a Federal correctional facility. And there was always a protocol in place.
And what it entailed is that, if you're going to have somebody set up to go, for a psych evaluation, for a court, for a dentist, appointment, to an outside facility, outside the jail, we're going to know about this weeks in advance.
So, it's not going to be like an impromptu type of scheduling, unless it's a medical emergency. So right there that should have raised a red flag with whoever let Ms. White, out with the prisoner.
And normally, it is always what we call a two-man hold, one on one plus one. And with his history, you would think that they would - might even have a three-man hold.
And possibly, when we had to do certain movements, and it's a high- risk prisoner, we would know everything about that prisoner.
CAINE: We would know his whole criminal history beforehand.
COATES: Well, and there's a lot to be desired, just watching the video that was just playing, of him sort of walking behind her, and going into the back of a car. There's a lot at stake. And, of course, the lingering question. All the things you guys have talked about, it seems the inmates knew far more than those, who were actually in positions of power, or just as much, at that point.
Casey Jordan, and Craig Caine, thank you so much.
JORDAN: Good to be here.
CAINE: You're welcome.
COATES: Up ahead, some pretty big news about football superstar Tom Brady. He's not retiring yet. But he reportedly just lined up his next gig. And if the numbers are real, this is a heck of a deal! It made, well, many people's eyes pop.
Does he deserve that kind of dough for that job? We'll debate, next.
COATES: Well, Tom Brady may be in, for another season, with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. But he already has a post-retirement gig.
According to the " New York Post," the seven-time Super Bowl winner has a 10-year contract, with Fox Sports, to become its lead NFL analyst, all for a whopping, wait for it, $375 million, the highest of any sports broadcaster. Now, for context, Brady reportedly made $333 million, over his 23-year playing career.
Let's bring in veteran sports journalist, Jemele Hill.
Jemele, I'm so glad you're here. I've got to ask you, I mean, look, no one can really deny the athletic prowess of Tom Brady. But does he deserve this amount of money, knowing that he's never actually even been an analyst before? Will he be the draw they need him to be?
JEMELE HILL, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE ATLANTIC, HOST, "JEMELE HILL IS UNBOTHERED" PODCAST: Well, one, thank you for having me.
And we have to remember deserve has nothing to do with it. It's all about what you can negotiate. And it's all about leverage points. The fact is Fox has Super Bowl - has the Super Bowl two of (ph) the next three years. And when you have the Super Bowl, you need marquee talent.
Tony Romo and Joe Buck, two premier broadcasters, they've gone to ESPN, where they are making a ton of money as well, because I believe they're two and three in that on that list, or at least in the top five, at the very worst.
So, this was a very timely - this was a great time, for Fox, to approach Brady. I mean, he's at the end of his career. You mentioned, how much money he's already made in his career. And so, for him, to now know that for the next 10 years, he's going to basically make more money than he already has, in the NFL, if you're him, what's not to like about that?
And given his resume? Certainly, from a credibility standpoint, I don't think the fans have to worry - or Fox executives, or the fans have to worry about that. He has the credibility. I mean, he has so many Super Bowl rings. He has more Super Bowl rings almost than he does fingers on both hands. So, I think, the fans are going to buy into it.
The question that I have, and this is purely from a professional standpoint, Tom Brady, as soon as he left New England, we've seen more of his personality, certainly on social media. I mean, he seems to be opening up a little bit more. And he's got a docu series on ESPN.
So, you see a little bit more of Tom Brady, as a personality, than you saw, throughout most of his career. But does he have the ability to criticize some of his peers? Will he say the kinds of things that get people to think that put the game in a different perspective?
Tony Romo surprised a lot of people, because nobody expected Tony Romo to be such a star, from the beginning. And so, there's going to be a lot of pressure, on Brady, to kind of live up to a standard that people like Tony Romo have established.
COATES: Something tells me he's not unaccustomed to pressure. The question, I think, for many people will be, will Tom Brady change his diet, now that he'll be one day an analyst, and have a whole different level of being comfortable? Will he have pizza, while he's trying to analyze insides of the game? At some point, Tom, I got to ask you.
I do want to know about your reaction, to Mike Tyson, though, as well, from one sport to the next. Because as you may have heard, Mike Tyson, who was involved in a altercation, on an airplane, last month, they have not decided to charge him, with any crime, in this moment in time.
It was the San Mateo County, California D.A., said that they would not, based on circumstances of it. And I just wonder, from your reaction, to why he won't be charged?
It is an indication, in some respects, what we're seeing a greater trend, Jemele, where people are engaged and more taunting. They are requiring those who are in celebrity positions, athletes, in particular, to have to have this thick skin, where they cannot defend themselves, in some way, even if they are being antagonized, on a plane, as he allegedly was.
What's your reaction to the way in which this is panning out?
HILL: Well, I'm glad he's not being charged. And honestly, listen, I'm not, in any way advocating violence. But unfortunately, there are some people that might need to learn the hard way.
There used to be a running joke across all of the world that the one of the few people that you ever want to bring some smoke to, is Mike Tyson. And for somebody to aggravate him, on an airplane, in this situation, is just befuddling to me. Because even though Mike Tyson hasn't fought, in a while, he's still in very good shape. Those hands are still lethal. So, I don't know what people think they're trying to prove.
Unfortunately, we live in an era of clout-chasing, where a lot of people, even if they get humiliated, even if they get beat up, they think the sacrifice is worth it.
I mean, we just saw recently, last night. I mean, Chris Paul, and his family, at the Dallas Mavericks game, during the NBA Playoffs, the Phoenix Suns playing the Mavericks, some unruly fans were disrespecting his mother, and his wife, and his children, and had to witness it.
So, I don't know what is in the psychology, of people, who feel as if, because these are entertainers, because these are sports stars that they feel licensed, to get in their personal space, to disrespect them?
Like, this ain't Twitter, OK? So, you might wind up catching some hands, in real-life, for things that you think just because you're able to say over a keyboard, that interaction doesn't--
HILL: --work the same, when you're with somebody, face-to-face. I mean, I, unfortunately, get a lot of disrespect, on social media.
And there's a few people, I've had to tell, just based off their tone and the things that they've called me, "Hey, just because you see me on CNN, and just because you see me on various other networks, don't think that what you say to me now is going to work out the same way, if you see me in public."
So, I think a lot of fans, and a lot of people, need to learn to respect other people's physical boundaries. You are entertained by them. That does not mean you own them.
COATES: Jemele Hill, I don't know who dares to mess with you! But it's not going to be me tonight! Thank you so much. Appreciate talking to you.
HILL: Yes. Thank you, Laura.
COATES: We'll be right back.
COATES: That's it for us. "DON LEMON TONIGHT" starts, right now, with, of course, Don Lemon.