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CNN Live Event/Special
CNN TONIGHT: Ramsey On Officers' Actions At The Robb Elementary School Shooting; Robb Elementary School Shooting - 19 Minutes, 13 Seconds In: Ballistic Shield Set Up; Robb Elementary School Shooting - 48 Minutes, Eight Seconds In: More Gunshots Heard, Officers Shoulder Weapons, Someone Yells "Hold It Down". Aired 9-10p ET
Aired July 15, 2022 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: On this Friday, we leave you with some hope, a reminder that you're not alone, in these stressful times.
Starting tomorrow, you can dial 988, across the country, for immediate mental health counseling, on everything, from suicidal thoughts, to substance abuse support. In part, it's a three-digit shortcut to the National Suicide Prevention Hotline, and a lot easier to remember.
Those facing, any mental crisis, can dial 988, much like you would call 911, in a medical emergency. Instead of a dispatcher, sending Police, or other first responders, 988 will connect callers, with trained mental health counselors, 24/7.
The news continues. Want to hand it over to Laura Coates, and CNN TONIGHT.
Laura?
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT: Anderson, thank you so much.
I am Laura Coates. And this is CNN TONIGHT.
And listen, I want to be upfront with you. We're doing something different, tonight. Something, frankly, that's extremely difficult. But we truly believe that it's important to do.
There's a tendency, to want to turn our eyes, from what is difficult, a tendency, to just want to move on. It's human nature. I understand. And believe me, I understand that. And sometimes, the news does require a shift in focus.
But just because the cameras leave, a location, doesn't mean the quest for information, has ended, or that the trauma has ended. Or that if we simply close our eyes that it can't happen, or it won't happen.
This is especially true, when we're talking about the pandemic of gun violence, and the indiscriminate nature of mass shootings. None of us want it to ever happen again. But the "It" is complex. It's very multifaceted. And how do we get there, to where it doesn't happen, again, without full transparency, without staying on the story? We can't.
So, that's why, tonight, we're going to be playing the full 77-minute surveillance video, from the Uvalde school massacre, in real-time. You might be asking, why we're doing this. Three reasons.
First, and most importantly, because the families of the 19 beautiful children, and those two brave teachers, who were killed, on May 24th, they deserve answers. The survivors deserve answers. The entire community deserves answers. And we can't put the right questions to the Police, who responded, or the local and state governments, until we confront, head-on, exactly what happened.
Now, the second reason why, we know that you've seen parts of this agonizing video, maybe 30-second clips here, and maybe a minute there, the bits with the most action, so to speak. But it is actually the lack of action that speaks volumes, about the response. I mean, minutes passed, and an entire hour, and nothing happens. And I'm left wondering, you're left wondering, how and why, and what does it really mean.
And that leads to our third reason, to play it, to help improve law enforcement's response, nationwide, to mass shootings, going forward, because we all know it's a sad truth that a shooter might target, a school, again. Columbine, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, Parkland, and now Uvalde. And there may be more.
So, what can Police learn from what happened here? And to wrestle with those questions, and much more, I'm joined by Crime and Justice Correspondent, Shimon Prokupecz, who's been on the ground in Uvalde, since this happened. And he's joining us here, today.
And two CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analysts, former FBI Deputy Director, Andrew McCabe, and former Philadelphia Police Commissioner, Charles Ramsey.
Now, sometimes, we're going to be talking, as the video is playing, and giving reporting, and context, and analysis. And sometimes, we're going to be silent, just to listen to what is happening.
But here's an overview of what you're going to see. And please don't look away. We'll see the gunman enter the school. You're going to see, in real-time, minute-by-minute, how heavily-armed, and some heavily- shielded officers, spent all that time, outside the door, to those adjoining classrooms.
[21:05:00]
You should also prepare yourself, because we will play the sounds, of the gunshots. Now, that has not been played, on CNN, before. We initially did not air the audio of the gunman firing, out of respect, for the victims' families. And we still maintain that respect. And I hear that's incredibly painful for them. And the last thing we would ever, that I that anyone would ever want to do is to compound their grief. But the video, which was obtained, by the "Austin American-Statesman," was published, in full, on the paper's website, several days ago. And because it has been, in the public sphere, because the officers' response, was informed, by that gunfire, we are choosing to leave it in, for a full and accurate accounting, of what happened.
Now, here's what you will not see, and you will not hear. You will not hear the children screaming. That was edited out by the "Austin American-Statesman," because it's too graphic. I mean, can you think of anything more painful to hear?
But while we won't, tonight, be hearing, those painful sounds, remember, the officers, the officers, there? They could hear. There was no editing out, of that moment.
You also won't see the face of a child, who was walking in the hall, when the gunman entered, who then turned and ran away. The student's face was blurred, to protect his identity. We're going to play that video, in just a moment.
But first, I want to go around the table. And I want to ask each of our esteemed panelists here, who are the right people, to have this discussion, on a night like this. I want to know what, is the one thing that you want our viewers, to keep in mind over the next one hour and 17 minutes.
There were several minutes. And you -- as you all know, and thinking about what's going on, I'm wondering, from each of you, what do you -- what are you going to look for?
And we all know how difficult this is, for the audience, for the viewers, for the families, and the necessity of having to really be in this moment, and have the opportunity, to help explain, the inexplicable, frankly. But what are you going to be looking for?
Shimon, you have been on the ground.
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
COATES: You have been, and by the way, you have been unbelievably crucial. I hope you understand that it is not taken lightly that we know how difficult it is, and for you to be there day in and day out. You are an ally. And you have been so professional, and you have been devoted, which is what we knew you would be.
PROKUPECZ: Well, thank you, Laura. And the support from certainly the network has been incredible.
And so, being there, just from the first minutes that I got there, on the ground, I knew something just didn't make sense. The timeline didn't make sense. A lot of things, we weren't getting answers to, just didn't make sense.
And then, looking at this video, and the more I look at this video, for me, the thing is the first moments of this. The minute, the officers, you know, yes, the gunman gets into the school. And he's in there, for a long time. And he gets in there, so easily. He just -- he's just able to walk right in. And he's in there for so long.
And the officers, those first few minutes, when they get inside, and what we see there, and them retreating, that, to me, has been one of the most painful things to see. And it's been one of the most crucial things to see. Because, right there, sort of, you get this feeling that they just gave up. They didn't know what to do. And they gave up.
COATES: What do you guys think? I mean, you are so -- in law enforcement. Unfortunately, you have seen more than most people will ever see, in a lifetime, combined exponentially. What are you looking for, Commissioner Ramsey?
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER PHILADELPHIA POLICE COMMISSIONER, FORMER WASHINGTON, D.C. POLICE CHIEF: Well, the one thing that I think the public ought to know is that the actions of the officers really aren't consistent with active- shooter training. Don't think that this is what is being trained, around the country, because it's not.
Now, the first few minutes, of the officers, after they arrive, what they do is consistent with the training. But after that, there's absolutely nothing taking place. And, I think, it's important, for people, to keep that in mind that that is not a reflection of law enforcement, across the country. It just isn't.
COATES: Andy?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR, FBI: Laura, there are so many notes. There's so many things that as it's -- as you go through the torture, of watching this entire video, there are so many things that jump out, to people, like Commissioner Ramsey, and I.
But the thing that really stuns me is we shouldn't even be getting to that. It's all superfluous.
The biggest mistakes were made in the first three to five minutes. None of what follows should ever have happened, if the initial response had been consistent, with active-shooter training, and the entry had been made, at that point. So, it's very, it's tough to watch.
COATES: Well we're going to watch it, and we're going to hone in, on all those points, because there were several minutes that were captured on the video, before the gunman even entered the school.
Surveillance cameras shows him, crashing a truck, just outside the property, and firing at two people, who are approaching him, who quickly ran for cover and, who thankfully, are OK.
[21:10:00]
Then, crossing the parking lot, of Robb Elementary School, when the shooter started spraying bullets, outside the school, a teacher actually called 911, while shouting at children, to take shelter, inside of their classrooms. And here was that frantic call.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TEXT: 11:31 AM - TEACHER CALLS 911 TO REPORT GUNMAN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't see him yet. I cannot see him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible) he's shooting (inaudible) can't say anything over the intercom. The kids are running!
Oh my God.
(GUNSHOTS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get in your room! Get in your room! Get in your room! Get in your room!
Get in your room! Get in your room!
(GUNSHOTS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he inside the building? Is he inside?
(GUNSHOTS)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COATES: And then, at a 11:33 AM, local time, in Uvalde, Texas, the gunman enters Robb Elementary School.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TEXT: EDITOR'S NOTE: A CHILD HAS BEEN BLURRED TO PROTECT THE CHILD'S IDENTITY.
(GUNSHOTS)
TEXT: EDITOR'S NOTE: THE SOUND OF CHILDREN SCREAMING HAS BEEN REMOVED.
(GUNSHOTS)
TEXT: 24 SECONDS IN: GUNMAN BEGINS FIRING MORE THAN 100 ROUNDS IN 2 1/2 MINUTES.
(GUNSHOTS)
TEXT: EDITOR'S NOTE: THE SOUND OF CHILDREN SCREAMING HAS BEEN REMOVED.
(GUNSHOTS)
TEXT: TWO MINUTES, 57 SECONDS IN: FIRST WAVE OF OFFICERS GO IN BUILDING, TAKING POSITIONS OUTSIDE CLASSROOMS 111 & 112.
(GUNSHOTS)
[21:15:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
TEXT: THREE MINUTES, 57 SECONDS IN: MORE GUNFIRE, OFFICERS RETREAT IN HALLWAY.
(GUNSHOTS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
(GUNSHOTS)
TEXT: FOUR MINUTES, 11 SECONDS IN: OFFICERS POINT WEAPONS; MORE SHOTS HEARD.
(GUNSHOTS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
(GUNSHOTS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COATES: We're going to take a short break, now. But we're going to keep the video, and the clock running. And, for full transparency, I will describe, what happened, in those few minutes that went by that you did not see, while we are in break.
Remember, this is 77 minutes in all. Think about that, as we go into a break. Those moments that you aren't seeing, those Police officers? They're still in that hallway.
We'll be right back.
[21:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: We're back, continuing our in-depth look, at the full 77- minute-long surveillance video, from inside Robb Elementary School, in Uvalde. The clock, as you see, is still running. We have not stopped the tape. We are now 11 minutes in.
And, during the break, there were sounds of radio traffic, and talk about how the shooter was contained, and officers worrying for their fellow officers, at the end of the hallway, and the potential for crossfire.
Let's keep watching, and talk to our experts.
First of all, Shimon, is Arredondo, the one we've heard so much about, are we seeing him, visibly yet--
PROKUPECZ: We don't. COATES: --in this area?
PROKUPECZ: We don't see him, on this tape. But he's there. He's there.
He's already, by now, made that phone call, on the landline. And he calls dispatchers, telling them what he needs, more resources. Remember, he doesn't have his radio with him. He's also on the phone, asking for his radio.
So, he's there. He's just not, in our view, right now. But there is -- there is body camera footage, of him, at the scene, talking and, I guess, making decisions, and asking for help. So, he's there. We just don't see him, in the video.
COATES: McCabe, Ramsey, what are you all seeing? I mean, the expertise that you've had, the two of you, I mean, this -- these were the crucial moments, you're both looking for. We've seen the initial response.
What do you see?
MCCABE: Absolutely. So Chuck, what I see is? I'm sure you're looking at the same thing. You initially have six or seven officers, who were the first responders, first ones in the door. They hear the shots going off.
And three of them, crucially three, go down the hallway, downrange, towards the door where the threat is. And the other three or four, stay back, behind these positions of cover. That is inexplicable to me.
RAMSEY: It is to me too, because they're not in a position, to provide, any cover, for the ones going down the hall.
Now, the first three are going to the sounds of the gunshots. That's exactly what they're supposed to do. No question about it. Ideally, if you've got four people, in the training, that's ideal, for a situation like that. But you don't wait for four. If it was one person, or two, you go for the gunshots.
MCCABE: And that -- that's right. And their training, in Texas, is explicit on this point. So, the Texas policy, is active-shooter response, for school-based officers, makes it very clear that whoever the first responders are, they go in, and confront the gunman. Whether that's four people, 10 people, or just one person. It's now a--
PROKUPECZ: Honestly, Laura, this is already taking too long. Right?
RAMSEY: Yes.
PROKUPECZ: Like, this should not have taken--
MCCABE: That's absolutely right.
[21:25:00] PROKUPECZ: --this long. We are way past where we should be here. This should have been over, in the first few minutes. And honestly, those officers just should have been more aggressive. And that's the problem here.
COATES: I mean, what I -- one moment, I saw over this, we saw more than -- I counted more than 20 times, and you had to have the Editor's Note that silenced the screams of children. I mean, more than 100 shots fired, in about 2.5 minutes, the officers entering at about 3:02.
And we heard one officer, who was in the sort of the right corner, who's going in, and out, and he texts -- looks at his phone, and suddenly like, "My wife's been shot." This is one of the officers we're learning that--
PROKUPECZ: Right.
MCCABE: That's right.
COATES: --in fact his wife is a teacher, at the school--
PROKUPECZ: She was, yes.
COATES: --and had been shot, Shimon?
PROKUPECZ: Yes. Eva Mireles, she was in the classroom. She was -- she was one of the people, who was calling, and saying she needed help that she was shot. Sadly, she died, on the way, to the hospital, which makes you wonder, have they gone in, there, sooner, to get her out, could she have lived?
It's a big question here. Whether or not had the Police acted sooner, and gone inside that classroom, if kids would have lived, and certainly that teacher.
COATES: Real quick, Commissioner Ramsey, on this point, I mean, as we (ph) watch, one officer seemed to have a bullet graze his head, or the thought of it.
RAMSEY: Right.
COATES: So, this is one of the officers that did go for it. That was about following the training, you think?
RAMSEY: Or a fragment, or something, struck him, OK? We don't -- I don't know exactly what it was.
COATES: You don't know?
RAMSEY: They retreated, when they received gunfire. But they should have reorganized, and gone back.
PROKUPECZ: And gone back.
RAMSEY: There were sufficient resources there, to go back. You can't just go back, retreat, and never go back. And that's the problem. And Shimon is absolutely right. This thing should have been resolved, one way or the other. Now, is it risky? Is it dangerous?
PROKUPECZ: Absolutely.
RAMSEY: Absolutely. There's no question about that. But it's also the job that you have.
COATES: We're going to take another break, right now. And like before, this tape is still going to be running, as if this were live, and in real-time. But we will be back in a moment.
[21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: We are still watching. We are 19 minutes in, now, on the 77- minute tape that shows how long Police, in Uvalde, waited, and waited, and waited, to confront an active shooter, massacring children, and teachers, more than a month ago.
It is unbelievably difficult to watch. But we have to keep watching. Because we want to keep showing you, the reality, to help us advance our understanding, of why this happened, selfishly, so it never happens again, so response like this never happens again.
And while we were in the break, and the video was still rolling, officers continue to talk, over radio, about how the shooter was contained. One officer asked about wanting to move in, and was told, "Just wait, you're doing everything you're supposed to."
And we turn back now to the footage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TEXT: 19 MINUTES, 13 SECONDS IN: BALLISTIC SHIELD SET UP.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COATES: And our experts are watching, right now, as we're seeing this.
And I have to ask you, immediately, I mean, Andrew McCabe, when you see this, help us understand why these officers are taking the positions, they are, right now. They're at the end of the hallway. I mean, obviously, the shooter's at the far end, from the earlier footage, we saw.
MCCABE: That's right.
COATES: What is this telling you, about what they think is happening, down the hall?
MCCABE: So, you have the initial response, where three officers, go down the hall. They set up around the doorway, and they receive incoming fire. They run back, to this position, you can see, on the screen here, and they take positions of cover. That is where they hold, for quite some time, half hour, or 45
minutes, maybe. And you can hear some of their communications. They know that they have colleagues, at the far end of the hall.
They've taken up positions of cover, as if they expect the gunman, to come out, into the hall, and they are prepared to address him there. You can even hear them talking about things like "Watch out for crossfire," so they don't want to shoot the guys, at the other end of the -- good guys, at the other end of the hall.
All of this tells me Laura that they are thinking of this situation as a barricaded subject, not as a active shooter, right?
In a barricaded subject situation, if there is nobody inside, with that barricaded subject, there's no immediate danger, to persons inside? You would set up in a formation, like this, protect the perimeter, wait for that barricaded subject, to burn himself out, or come out, and then you can address him on ground. That's more favorable to you.
That is not what we have here. This is an active-shooter situation. There are children, and teachers, dying, in that room, so.
COATES: It's also a school. I mean, the idea that--
MCCABE: Of course.
COATES: --we're not in like an isolated warehouse, where there's no one inside, you have one area to contain. I mean, the idea that there are other classrooms, we know that they are actually trying to get other kids out--
PROKUPECZ: They were.
COATES: --at this point, right?
PROKUPECZ: They were. They were getting other kids out, in some of the surrounding classrooms. But, by this point, they would have had everyone out of the classroom.
But, when you look at this video, and having covered barricaded situations, there's no sense of urgency, here. There's just--
MCCABE: There's not--
PROKUPECZ: --everyone is just standing around, trying to figure out what to do. "What's next? What are we doing? Let's go," trying to figure out, "OK, who's going to sort of take the lead, here." There's zero leadership, here. None.
MCCABE: As officers come, and go, from different organizations--
PROKUPECZ: Yes.
MCCABE: --the sheriff's department, you see Border Patrol, is coming in. PROKUPECZ: The Border Patrol, yes.
MCCABE: Not a single one of them, walks among the group, and divides people up, puts people in position--
PROKUPECZ: Right.
MCCABE: --tells them what to do, gives assignments. That's what you should -- you know, 21 years in law enforcement, some of that, as a member of the SWAT team, in the New York City office, of the FBI, that's the training. That's how you execute. Everybody has a role.
PROKUPECZ: I mean, look, they're kneeling behind the shield, as if the guy -- as if the gunman is going to come out.
RAMSEY: And--
COATES: And that was your point too, Ramsey, right, the idea?
RAMSEY: And he's not going to come out. I mean, he knows the Police are there. I mean, when he encountered the first two, and fired at them, now why would he come out, into the hall, into the open?
PROKUPECZ: Of course.
RAMSEY: It doesn't--
PROKUPECZ: Yes.
RAMSEY: It's not logical to think that. And so, what they're doing now, and the positions that they're taking, that's a ballistic shield they got.
[21:35:00]
They've got everything they need, to take this guy, everything they need. They got a ballistic shield. They got long guns. They've got vests. They got everything they need. This really, I mean, there's no command and control, at all--
PROKUPECZ: Yes.
RAMSEY: --that's taking place. And that's even more important, when you've got a city, like this, or a town like this, where you've got all these different agencies--
PROKUPECZ: Multiple agencies.
RAMSEY: --responding.
COATES: And we know there's at least eight, who arrived on--
PROKUPECZ: Yes.
COATES: --I mean, at least--
RAMSEY: Exactly.
COATES: --eight different agencies. And it's worth noting.
I mean just watching this video, with all of you, watching this unfold. I'm watching, frankly, as a scared mom, watching this, in a school. I see your anger, about what's happening, as members of law enforcement.
So, I want to listen in, and see what's happening, right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TEXT: 23 MINUTES, 47 SECONDS IN: MEMBER OF SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT TAKES POSITION.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
TEXT: 24 MINUTES, 38 SECONDS IN: "WE'RE WAITING FOR THE NEGOTIATOR... WHEN WE APPROACHED, (GUNMAN) STARTED SHOOTING."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're waiting for the negotiator (inaudible) when we approached, he started shooting (inaudible).
TEXT: 24 MINUTES, 53 SECONDS IN: "THE KIDS DON'T WANT TO COME OUT."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The kids don't want to come out (inaudible). The communication that we got is that there's kids in there (inaudible).
TEXT: 25 MINUTES, 30 SECONDS IN: OFFICER TESTS A CLASSROOM DOOR, TELLS COLLEAGUES TO OPEN THE DOOR.
(OFFICER KNOCKS ON THE DOOR)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police!
(OFFICER KNOCKS ON THE DOOR)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police! Open the door! Police! (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uvalde (inaudible) come out!
(OFFICER KNOCKS ON THE DOOR)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) open the door, so we can get you out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uvalde (ph), open. Come on guys!
TEXT: 26 MINUTES, 12 SECONDS IN: OFFICER ASKS: "DO YOU HAVE A MASTER KEY?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a master key? (inaudible).
TEXT: 26 MINUTES, 18 SECONDS IN: PERSON FREED FROM ANOTHER CLASSROOM; GUNMAN CONTINUES TO CONTROL CLASSROOMS 111 & 112.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible). (END VIDEOTAPE)
COATES: Now, one of the things, we're hearing about, and we heard them say? It was a little bit hard to hear, here. But they said, they're waiting for the negotiator. "When we approached, he started shooting." They said, "The kids don't want to come out. The communication that we got is that there's kids in there."
And you just heard an officer asking for some kind of a master key, and then entering into one classroom, and somebody coming out, one person, out of that particular room.
When you're watching this, gentlemen, and thinking about what's happening, here, Shimon, what's happening, on the outside, at this point in time?
PROKUPECZ: Well?
COATES: We're seeing this vantage point. But what else is happening?
PROKUPECZ: Right. Outside, around the school, there are those parents that are starting to show up. And they realize what's going on. They realize that the cops are taking too long.
They're not getting any information. They see heavily-armed officers, outside the school. They're wondering why they're not in the school. So, they know there's something going on, inside the school. And they're seeing all these officers that are outside the school. They themselves want to go inside, and try and rescue their kids.
The parents, what always amazed me was that the parents almost immediately knew something wasn't right here. They didn't have access to their children. And they saw all the officers standing around outside. And they were just wondering what was taking so long.
And that feeling that they must have had, in those moments, just wondering where their kids were? And that's why we saw all that footage, of them, outside, yelling at the officers. Some of them were handcuffed, there. It was rough out there. But they knew something, whatever was going on inside was not right.
[21:40:00]
COATES: I mean, they're asking for a master key. How does this -- how does this factor, in terms of training, of barricaded, or the thought of the active shooter.
I would note that we haven't heard those horrible gunshots, in quite some time, on this video, as we're hearing.
And, by the way, for many people, myself included, outside of maybe a Hollywood movie, I've never heard the sounds of an AR-15, or assault rifle, like that. I mean, my heart is still racing--
RAMSEY: No.
COATES: --thinking about--
PROKUPECZ: Yes.
COATES: --what that sounded like, and the ability to get so many rounds off, in that amount of time.
MCCABE: That's right.
COATES: But they're asking now for a master key. Where does this factor in?
MCCABE: Well, there's a lot of ways to get into a space, where you have to eliminate a threat. It's what we refer to it as breaching. There's all kinds of breaching tools, everything from a sledgehammer, or a Halligan tool, or rabbit tools that put pressure on a doorframe that you then enable you to knock it in. There are explosive breaching.
But the first and easiest and most basic way to get in is with a key. And anyone, who's gone through tactical training understands that that's one of the first questions, you ask, when you get on scene, is do we have a key to that space.
COATES: But we're 29 minutes in.
MCCABE: That's--
COATES: In about 26 minutes, and they asked for it.
MCCABE: --inexplicable. And I should also mention, Laura, we're waiting for the negotiator. You don't negotiate with an active shooter. There is no negotiating with an active shooter. That's not -- that's not even on that--
COATES: What is the -- I mean, it's just take the shooter out? That's it?
RAMSEY: Well, yes, I mean?
MCCABE: That's right.
RAMSEY: Yes. It's just that simple. I mean, first of all, there's no tactical planning, going on, at all, to distract him--
PROKUPECZ: Yes.
RAMSEY: --so that an entry team, can come in, to make entry, and take him out, OK? You want to incapacitate him. But, to be honest with you, at this point in time, you're looking to just kill him, and just stop the threat. Period! OK?
And there's no tactical planning. They're just standing around. There's nobody taking charge. There's no -- I don't know what's going on outside, but you've got windows. There's a way in, through that. Break the window, do something, to distract him, so you can-- COATES: You know what's happening, right now? I mean, we just realized, I mean, right now, is when the first -- we got a 911 call, coming out of one of the classrooms, right now.
MCCABE: That's right.
COATES: At this point in time, which means that someone's alive, in some of those classrooms.
RAMSEY: Yes, yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: 12:03 PM - 911 CALL FROM INSIDE ROOM 112.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: I mean, they're alive, calling for help, calling 911.
RAMSEY: People are alive, people are bleeding. Every time the heart beats, that blood is getting pushed out of the body. I mean, how -- you can't survive long. And you're talking about children, you're talking about adults. All those shots, you know, someone has been hit. And so, you've got to make entry. I'm sorry, you just have to make entry.
COATES: I mean, we're all sorry. But that did not happen.
And we've been watching these officers get equipped for action. You see, they're putting on gear. They're getting equipped. But no one's moving down the hall. That hallway between those green lines, as you're seeing, is not happening. The shooter is still in the classroom.
RAMSEY: And the distance is too far, Laura. They're so far away from -- even if he did come out, look at the link, that just kind of shot, you'd have to take. There's no reason, for them, to be this far back--
TEXT: 31 MINUTES, FOUR SECONDS IN: BODYCAM NOW APPEARS IN LEAKED VIDEO; OFFICERS IN HALLWAY ADD A SECOND BALLISTIC SHIELD.
PROKUPECZ: That's right.
RAMSEY: --at this point in time.
MCCABE: Now, you have a second ballistic shield, has shown up on the scene. And it is just placed next to the first one.
TEXT: 31 MINUTES, 18 SECONDS IN: "CAN YOU HEAR ME, SIR?"
MCCABE: And neither of them actually go down towards the target.
COATES: We're going to keep-
PROKUPECZ: At this point, they should be advancing.
COATES: They should be advancing.
PROKUPECZ: Move, like you just want to yell at them, and say, "Move! Move!"
COATES: Well, we'll be right back. We're going to keep watching.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: We're back, showing you all the time that has elapsed, since the killer broke into Robb Elementary, in Uvalde, and when he was finally confronted, by Police, from beginning to end.
TEXT: 36 MINUTES, 45 SECONDS IN: OFFICER HOLDS UP LARGE SET OF KEYS.
COATES: Right before the last break, we saw Police, with body armor. And as the tape continued to roll in, the break, and you're watching it all unfold, officers are heard discussing the classroom, where the shooter is. And the footage is now at the 35-minute mark.
Keep in mind, this is a 77-minute video. We're at 35 minutes, OK?
Look at where we are, right now. I want you guys to -- we have a map, I think, of the location, to try to understand this bodycam, we're seeing, in the upper left corner of the screen, and what we're seeing, in real-time, from the vantage point, we've seen before.
TEXT: 36 MINUTES, 45 SECONDS IN: OFFICER HOLDS UP LARGE SET OF KEYS.
COATES: Andrew McCabe, help me walk through a little bit, about where we are? This bodycam footage compared to these sort of long guns we're seeing at the end here. What's happening, right now? Are they converging on each other?
MCCABE: So, at the bottom of your large screen, Laura, where you see the three long guns, pointing down the hall? That's the direction we've been looking all along.
The classrooms 111 and 112 are just down that hallway, and then to the left. If you go all the way to the end of that hallway you're at the south entrance. At the south entrance, you have Officer Gassaway (ph).
So, in the top left corner of your screen, you're looking at body camera coverage, from Officer Gassaway (ph). You will not see Officer Gassaway's (ph) face, because that camera is attached to the front of his vest.
So, right there, he's walking up the hallway, essentially towards these men, at the -- in the big screen, with the long guns. And so, that's the -- that's the perspective that you're getting.
TEXT: 37 MINUTES, 30 SECONDS IN: ONE SHIELD MOVED OUT OF THE WAY.
COATES: Wait. As this is happening, look at this time-mark. We know the timestamp that right now, a 911 call is coming, from inside of room 112. It's a child, and they're saying, "Please send help for my teacher she is shot but still alive. A lot of people are gone, please hurry up. Come immediate 112."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TEXT: 911 CALL FROM INSIDE ROOM 112 - "PLEASE SEND HELP FOR MY TEACHER SHE IS SHOT BUT STILL ALIVE. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GONE, PLEASE HURRY UP. COME IMMEDIATE 112."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: It's dumbfounding, and it's infuriating, and it's heartbreaking that we are how many minutes in -- 37 minutes in, a 911 call is coming in. We're seeing people at the end of the hall, Chief Ramsey, who are -- who are still not moving up. 911 calls are coming in. We learned a long time -- more than a half hour ago that one of the officer's wives had been shot.
I mean, I'm asking you to explain this.
RAMSEY: I can't.
COATES: Which you can--
RAMSEY: I can't explain it, because there is no explanation, for what they're doing, right now. They're doing absolutely nothing. And so, there is no explanation. This is totally inconsistent with anything. Even without active-shooter training, it wouldn't make sense, to just sit there, and allow this to unfold, the way it's unfolding.
PROKUPECZ: That's right.
RAMSEY: I mean, they've got equipment. They've got everything they need. They got the personnel. The only thing they're missing, right now, is courage.
[21:50:00]
COATES: Shimon, what I'm looking at -- look at all the different uniforms. I mean, just looking at this, for the first time, for many people, who are watching this, unfold. We have been told, for several weeks now, the name, Chief Arredondo. Are we seeing him still?
PROKUPECZ: I don't see him anywhere.
COATES: So, we see all these different uniforms. This is not just the School Resource officers anymore. Is Border Patrol here? Are the Uvalde Police here? What are these uniforms?
PROKUPECZ: Yes.
COATES: You've been there for two months.
PROKUPECZ: So, you see the Border Patrol, obviously. And then that -- you see someone from a -- a Sheriff's Deputy, there, kneeling, with one in the ballistic shields and, I think, a Uvalde Police. There may be another sheriff, or Border Patrol maybe they're behind them.
But, at this point, those SWAT team members, for lack of a better word, the BORTAC units that we've heard?
MCCABE: Right.
PROKUPECZ: They start arriving here. And these are the guys that Arredondo -- Pete Arredondo, says he called for, because they needed these heavily-armed officers, Border Patrol agents, to come in, and try and end this.
But these guys had the equipment. I mean, the officers there, in the beginning, have the equipment, to do this.
MCCABE: That's right.
PROKUPECZ: So, it never made any sense. And the more you look at this video, and the more you get these explanations, from them, it doesn't make any sense, why he had to wait, for these officers.
Courage, you talk to the families, you know, what they're going to say? They're a bunch of cowards, a bunch of cowards, who stayed in the hallway, and were more concerned about their own lives than the children that were inside that classroom.
You are not -- we are 40 minutes into this. Not one of them, one of them makes any kind of move, to get closer to the classroom. You don't -- they're not being aggressive. And everyone is just standing around, like wondering what to do.
And Border Patrol, we don't have the whole story on Border Patrol. But they're trained, in how to deal with a lot of these situations. So, what are they doing? Why aren't they being more aggressive here?
Everyone points to Chief Arredondo. Fine. But there is much more to this entire story than then we have been told.
COATES: It's true. And another quick break, right now. We'll be right back with this tape, still rolling.
The gunman has still not been confronted. Just think about that, and think about someone, who called from inside of the classroom.
Mr. Rogers used, "Look for the heroes." There in the hallway! The little girls, and little boys, are in the classrooms, waiting for them to come.
[21:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: 77 minutes, in Uvalde.
During that break off, just multiple law enforcement agencies were seen inside and outside the school, discussing the layout. We also saw gas canisters being brought in. Want to keep focusing on the tape that is rolling. And we have not
paused it at all.
And I -- but let me just pause for a second, and say this. This is not easy to watch. We don't pretend that this is easy to watch. Think back to how we began this program, and why we're doing this.
We want people to understand, from those three reasons. We want the families to be able to get the answers. We want to be able to have those questions, to the officers, to know exactly what happened, in the interest of transparency and accountability.
We have a law enforcement expert panel here, and Shimon, who's been on the ground, for all of this time.
And then we want to be able to prevent this, this sort of response, from ever happening again. Because sadly, we are in a world, where gun violence seems to be as prevalent as American pie, as Apple pie, OK?
And so, here we are, trying to figure out ways, to alert the public, to help us understand, to prevent what we're seeing. Let's -- never happen again. Remember that. This is not some gratuitous viewing of this tragedy. I don't want this to happen, again.
My panel here, I want to bring you all back in, on this conversation. Because what we're seeing, now, this is painful to watch. But I don't -- I can't look away, because I don't want to ever report this again. I don't ever want to know this happens again.
But you -- we're talking about gas canisters. Why are gas canisters coming in now? What is the deal with that? What do we know about why they would obviously go that route? Is that just a last-ditch effort? What is that about?
MCCABE: CS gas is what we're talking about. It can be used in situations, to debilitate somebody, who is a barricaded subject, to kind of distract them, and render them incapable, of returning fire.
COATES: Is it deadly? No?
MCCABE: It's not -- it's not deadly. It can -- it can induce pretty serious reactions, in people. I am not sure, how it would work, on a classroom full of--
COATES: Right.
MCCABE: --fourth graders. But you can only imagine that they were considering, I guess, some sort of a plan in, which they would enter, and use CS gas. I don't believe it was ever deployed. So it ended up being time wasting.
TEXT: 46 MINUTES, 32 SECONDS IN: OFFICER CALLS FOR "BREACH TOOL."
PROKUPECZ: No. But just, why would you deploy CS gas, in this kind of a situation?
RAMSEY: Right.
PROKUPECZ: This is an active shooter.
TEXT: 47 MINUTES, FIVE SECONDS IN: ANOTHER REQUEST FOR MASTER KEY.
MCCABE: That's right. They have what they needed to have.
PROKUPECZ: They have children in the class. And I spoke to some of those kids, who had just been fired on, 100 rounds of AR-15-style rifle rounds.
COATES: And I want to pause. Because Shimon, we're talking about -- we are going to hear, in a couple of moments, couple seconds, really, that gunfire, yet again.
I want to prepare the audience. It is very difficult to hear. This is an assault rifle. I mean, the propensity to get so many rounds off, in a moment and -- in the short amount of time.
Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TEXT: 47 MINUTES, FIVE SECONDS IN: ANOTHER REQUEST FOR MASTER KEY.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
(GUNSHOTS)
TEXT: 48 MINUTES, EIGHT SECONDS IN: MORE GUNSHOTS HEARD; OFFICERS SHOULDER WEAPONS, SOMEONE YELLS "HOLD IT DOWN!"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hold it down! Hold down! Hold down! Please don't fire (ph)!
TEXT: 48 MINUTES, 20 SECONDS IN: OFFICERS START TO MOVE DOWN HALLWAY.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hold it down (ph)!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold it (inaudible).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COATES: What's happening there?
