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CNN Live Event/Special

Jan. 6 Cmte Presents New Evidence, New Testimony, Never-Before- Seen Footage; Jan. 6 Cmte: Trump Knew 2020 Election Was Not Stolen; Jan. 6 Cmte: Trump Directly Involved In Bid To Overturn 2020 Election. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired October 13, 2022 - 13:30   ET




ROGER STONE, TRUMP ADVISER: When that happens, the key thing to do is to claim victory. Possession is nine-tenths of the law. No, we won. Fuck you. Sorry. Over. We won.


STONE: You're wrong. Fuck you.


STONE: I said, fuck the voting. Let's get right to the violence. That's what I'm fucking saying. There's no point. We'll have to start smashing pumpkins, if you know what I mean.



REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): The Select Committee called Mr. Stone as a witness, but he invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self- incrimination.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He believed the violence on January 6th was justified?

STONE: I'm the adviser counsel, I respectfully declined to answer your question on the basis of the Fifth Amendment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Mr. Stone, did you have any role in planning for the violence on January 6th?

STONE: Once again, I will assert my Fifth Amendment right to decline to answer your question.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LOFGREN: Although we don't yet have all the relevant records of Roger Stone's communications, even Stone's own social media posts acknowledge that he spoke with Donald Trump on December 27, as preparations for January 6, were underway. In this post, you can see how Roger Stone talked about his conversations with President Trump.

He wrote, "I also told the president exactly how he can appoint a special counsel with full subpoena power to ensure those who are attempting to steal the 2020 election through voter fraud are charged and convicted and to ensure Donald Trump continues as our president."

As we know by now, the idea for a special counsel was not just an idle suggestion. It was something President Trump had actually tried to do earlier that month. We know that Roger Stone was at the Willard Hotel on January 5th and 6th. And we know from other witness testimony that President Trump asked his chief of staff Mark Meadows to speak with Roger Stone and General Michael Flynn that night.

In addition to his connection to President Trump, Roger Stone maintained extensive direct connections to two groups responsible for violently attacking the Capitol, the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys. Individuals from both of these organizations have been charged with a crime of seditious conspiracy.

Now, what is seditious conspiracy? It is a conspiracy to use violent force against the United States, to oppose the lawful authority of the United States. Multiple associates of Roger Stone from both the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys have been charged with this crime. Close associates of Roger Stone, including Joshua James, have pled guilty to this crime.

We know that at least seven Oath Keepers, who have been criminally charged, provided personal security for Roger Stone, or were seen with him on January 6th, or in the weeks leading up to January 6th. For example, Joshua James, the leader of the Alabama Oath Keepers, provided security for Roger Stone, and was with him on January 5th.

This is the picture of the two together on January 5th. James entered the Capitol on January 6th, he assaulted a police officer. Earlier this year, he pled guilty to seditious conspiracy, and obstruction of Congress.

Another example is the married couple Kelly and Connie Meggs. Kelly Meggs was the leader of the Florida chapter of the Oath Keepers. Both he and his wife provided security for Roger Stone, and both are charged with leading a military style stack attack of Oath Keepers, attacking the Capitol on January 6th.

Perhaps even more disturbing is Roger Stone's close association with Enrique Tarrio, the national chairman of the Proud Boys. Roger Stone's connection with Enrique Tarrio and the Proud Boys is well documented by video evidence, with phone records the Select Committee has obtained. Tarrio, along with other Proud Boys has been charged with multiple crimes concerning the attack on January 6th, including seditious conspiracy. During the attack, Tarrio sent a message to other Proud Boys claiming, we did that. He also visited the White House on December 12th. Later that day, he posted a disturbing video claiming credit for the attack. This video posted on January 6th was apparently created prior to the attack. this


This big lie President Trump's effort to convince Americans that he had won the 2020 election began before the election results even came in. It was intentional. It was premeditated. It was not based on election results, or any evidence of actual fraud affecting the results, or any actual problems with voting machines. It was a plan concocted in advance to convince his supporters that he won.

And the people who seemingly knew about that plan in advance would ultimately play a significant role in the events of January 6th. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): Gentlewoman yields back. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Kinzinger, for an opening statement.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Very shortly after the election, the Trump campaign recognized that they had likely lost the election and they informed Donald Trump of that fact. Even before the networks called the race for President Biden on November 7th, his chances of pulling out a victory were virtually non-existent. And President Trump knew it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know if anybody ever told the President that he had lost, and that there wasn't a chance of him winning?

JASON MILLER, FORMER SENIOR CAMPAIGN STAFFER: The -- I know that the President when the network's called it, of course, he was informed about the network decision. That afternoon at some point, myself and a handful of other folks went over and sat down with the President and communicated that the odds of us prevailing in legal challenges were very small.

LOFGREN: You know, after the election as of November 7th, in your judgment, what were the chances of President Trump winning the election?





KINZINGER: At times, President Trump acknowledged the reality of his loss. Although he publicly claimed that he had won the election, privately, he admitted that Joe Biden would take over as president. Here's a few examples of that.


GENERAL MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: So we're in the Oval, and there's a discussion going on. And the President says, I think it's -- it could have been Pompeo, but he says words to the effect of, yes, we lost, we need to let that issue go to the next guy. Meaning President Biden.

ALYSSA FARAH, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I remember maybe a week after the election was called, I popped into the Oval just to like, give the President the headlines and see how he was doing. And he was looking at the TV and he said, can you believe I lost to this f-ing guy?

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER AIDE TO MARK MEADOWS: Mark, raise it with me on the 18th. And so following that conversation, where the motorcade arrived, driving back to the White House, and I said, did the President really think he lost? He said, you know, a lot of times he'll tell me that he lost but he wants to keep fighting it, and he thinks that there might be enough to overturn the election. But, you know, he pretty much just acknowledged that he -- that he's lost.


KINZINGER: Knowing that he had lost and that he had only weeks left in office, President Trump rushed to complete his unfinished business. One key example is this. President Trump issued an order for large scale U.S. troop withdrawals. He disregarded concerns about the consequences for fragile governments on the front lines of the fight against ISIS and al-Qaeda terrorists.

Knowing he was leaving office, he acted immediately, and signed this order on November 11th, which would have required the immediate withdrawal of troops from Somalia and Afghanistan, all to be complete before the Biden inauguration on January 20th. As you watch these clips recall that General Keith Kellogg was the National Security Adviser to the Vice President and had served as Chief of Staff to the National Security Council for President Trump and General Milley was the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon.


MILLEY: Are you familiar with a memo that the President reportedly signed on November 11th, 2020 ordering that troops be withdrawn from Afghanistan and Somalia?


MILLEY: So, I think you might have seen some things where there's a memo or something from Johnny McEntee to Douglas MacGregor. It says, here's your task to get U.S. forces out of Somalia, get U.S. forces out of Afghanistan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you first interviewed and met Colonel Douglas MacGregor, is it fair to say you discussed this decision of withdrawing from Somalia and Afghanistan, correct?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that was -- the position that he was taking over there was senior adviser to the Secretary of Defense, is that correct?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So on that same day, just so I'm clear, he responded back to you that they, meaning DoD leadership, was not going to do -- take any of those steps without an order?

MCENTEE: Without a directive, yes.

DOUGLAS MACGREGOR, FORMER ADVISER TO THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I explained in language that should be in the order while I was in the meeting with McEntee and this was my answer to him and said, if you want this to happen, or the president wants this to happen, he's got to write an order.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you never wrote it down, in any capacity?

MACGREGOR: Well, I sketched on a piece of paper for him some key statements. You know, the president directs.


MACGREGOR: You know, this is -- what's the right word, boilerplate language.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who was in his office drafted the order?

MCENTEE: It was myself and one of my assistants.

MILLEY: McEntee duly types it up, brings it in to the President. The President signs it and boom, it's over, faxed over or emailed, scanned over and Kash Patel delivers it to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was it by auto pen, or was it the President himself signing it?

MCENTEE: It was the President.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And who obtained that signature?


MILLEY: It is odd. It is non-standard. It is potentially dangerous. I personally thought it's militarily not feasible nor wise.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I proceeded to tell the PPO and proceeded to tell MacGregor that if I ever saw anything like that, I would do something physical. Because I thought what that was done was a tremendous disservice to nation. And, by the way, that was a very, very contested issue. There were people who did not agree with getting out of Afghanistan.

I appreciate their concerns. An immediate departure that that memo said would have been a catastrophic. It's the same thing what President Biden went through. It would have been a debacle.


KINZINGER: Keep in mind, the order was for an immediate withdrawal. It would have been catastrophic. And yet President Trump signed the order. These are the highly consequential actions of a president who knows his term will shortly end. At the same time that President Trump was acknowledging privately that he had lost the election, he was hearing that there was no evidence of fraud or irregularities sufficient to change the outcome.


ALEX CANNON, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN LAWYER: I remember a call with Mr. Meadows, where Mr. Meadows was asking me what I was finding, and if I was finding anything, and I remember sharing with him that we weren't finding anything that would be sufficient to change the results in any of the key states.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that conversation?

CANNON: Probably in November, mid to late November. I think it was before my child was born.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was Mr. Meadows reaction to that information?

CANNON: I believe the words he used were, so there's no there there.

BILL STEPIEN, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: It would be our job to track it down and come up dry because the allegation didn't prove to be true. And we'd have to, you know, relay the news that, yes, that tip, that, you know, someone told you about those votes, or that fraud or, you know, nothing came of it.

That will be our job as, you know, the truth telling squad and, you know, not a fun job, you know, much it's an easier job to be telling the President about, you know, wild allegations. It's the harder job to be telling them on the back end that, yes, that's -- that wasn't true.

MATT MORGAN, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN LAWYER: What was generally discussed on that topic was whether the fraud, maladministration, abuse or irregularities if aggregated and read most favorably to the campaign, would that be outcome determinative. And I think everyone's assessment in the room, at least amongst the staff, Marc Short, myself and Greg Jacob was that it was not sufficient to be outcome determinative.


KINZINGER: Look, it's the right of any candidate to litigate genuine election disputes. Nobody argues that. But President Trump's litigation was completely unsuccessful.


In our past hearings, we told you that the committee had identified a total of 62 election lawsuits filed by the Trump campaign and its allies between November 4th and January 6th of 2021. Those cases resulted in 61 losses, and only a single victory which did not affect the outcome for any candidate.

The claims were not supported by any sufficient evidence of fraud or irregularities. In fact, they were baseless as judges repeatedly recognized. And none of these 62 cases was President Trump able to establish any viable claims of election fraud sufficient to overturn the results of the election.

In those hearings, we shared with you the words used by judges around the country in rejecting the Trump campaigns claims. And strong language criticizing the lack of evidentiary support for the claims of election fraud and those lawsuits. For example, a federal appeals court in Pennsylvania wrote, quote, "Charges require specific allegations and proof. We have neither here."

A federal judge in Wisconsin wrote, quote, "The court has allowed the former president the chance to make his case and he has lost on the merits." Another judge in Michigan called the claims, quote, "Nothing but speculation and conjecture that votes for President Trump were either destroyed, discarded or switched to votes for Vice President Biden."

A federal judge in Michigan sanction nine attorneys including Sidney Powell, from making frivolous allegations and an election fraud case, describing the case as a historic and profound abuse of the judicial process.

Recently, a group of distinguished Republican election lawyers, former judges and elected officials issued a report confirming the findings of the courts and their report entitled "Lost, not stolen." These prominent Republicans analyzed each election challenge and concluded this. "Donald Trump and his supporters have failed to present evidence of fraud or inaccurate results significant enough to invalidate the results of the 2020 presidential election."

On December 11th, Trump's allies lost a lawsuit in the U.S. Supreme Court that he regarded as his last chance of success in the courts. A newly obtained Secret Service message from that day shows how angry President Trump was about the outcome. Quote, "Just FYI. POTUS is pissed. Breaking news, Supreme Court denied his lawsuit. He is livid now."

Cassidy Hutchinson, an aide, Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, was present for that conversation and describe it in this way.


HUTCHINSON: This is the day that the Supreme Court had rejected that case. Mr. Meadows and I were in the White House residence at a Christmas reception. And as we were walking back from the Christmas reception that evening, the President was walking out of the Oval Office. We crossed paths in the Rose Garden colonnade.

The President was fired up about the Supreme Court decision. And so, I was standing next to Mr. Meadows, but I stepped back. So I was probably 2, 3 feet catty corner from a diagonal from him. The President's just raging about the decision and how it's wrong, and why didn't we make more calls and just -- this typical anger outburst at this decision.

And the President said, you -- so he had said something to the effect of, I don't want people to know we lost, Mark. This is embarrassing. Figure it out. We need to figure it out. I don't want people to know that we lost.


KINZINGER: Our country is a country of laws, where every person, including the president must follow the law and respect the judgment of our courts. President Trump's closest advisers held that view both then and now.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, do you believe that the President should abide by the rulings of the courts?

MIKE POMPEO, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Oh, yes, we should all comply with the law at all times to the best of our ability, every one of us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So once the courts have ruled and the Electoral College had met, the election was over in your view?

POMPEO: Yes, I think I've said previously that when the Vice President made the certification and the litigation was complete, it was complete.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: when the Electoral College met on the 14th?

POMPEO: Yes, that's a December 14th, is that right? I think that's the right date, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I assume, Pat, that you would agree the President is obligated to abide by the rulings of the courts?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I assume you also wouldn't --

CIPOLLONE: Everybody is obligated to abide by rulings of course.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I assume you also would agree the President has a particular obligation to take care of that the laws be faithfully executed?


CIPOLLONE: That is one of the President's obligations, correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ivanka, do you believe the President's obligated to abide by the rulings of the courts?



KINZINGER: By mid-December of 2020, President Trump's senior staff were attempting to persuade him to concede the election outcome.


CIPOLLONE: But if your question is did I believe he should concede the election at a point in time? Yes, I did.

WILLIAM BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: December 14th was the day that the states certified their votes and sent them to Congress. And in my view, that was the end of the matter. I didn't say, you know, I thought that this would lead inexorably to a new administration.

JUDD DEERE, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: I told him that my personal viewpoint was that the Electoral College had met, which is the system that our country is set under to elect a president and vice president. And I believed at that point that the means for him to pursue litigation was probably closed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you recall what his response, if any, was?

DEERE: He disagreed.


KINZINGER: Secretary of Labor Gene Scalia, the son of late Justice Scalia, visited President Trump in mid-December and explain the situation clearly.


EUGENE SCALIA, FORMER SECRETARY OF LABOR: So I had to put a call in to the President. I might have called on the 13th. We spoke, I believe, on the 14th, in which I conveyed to him that I thought that it was time for him to acknowledge that President Biden had prevailed in the election.

But I communicated to the President that when that legal process is exhausted, and when the electors have voted, that that's the point at which that outcome needs to be expected. I told him that I did believe yes, that once that those legal processes were run, if fraud had not been established, that had affected the outcome of the election, and unfortunately, I believe that what had to be done was going to see the outcome. (END VIDEO CLIP)

KINZINGER: Not only that the courts reject President Trump's fraud and other allegations, his Department of Justice appointees, including Bill Barr, Jeffrey Rosen, and Richard Donoghue did as well. President Trump knew the truth. He heard what all his experts and senior staff were telling him.

He knew he had lost the election. But he made the deliberate choice to ignore the court, to ignore the Justice Department, to ignore his campaign leadership, to ignore senior advisers and to pursue a completely unlawful effort to overturn the election. His intent was plain, ignore the rule of law and stay in power. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

THOMPSON: Gentleman yields back. The Chair recognizes the gentlewoman from Virginia, Ms. Luria.

REP. ELAINE LURIA (D-VA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mid-December was a turning point. President Trump made a decision, a choice to ignore the courts and his advisers and to push forward to overturn the election. His efforts to overturn the election were not random or disconnected. Rather, they were part of a coordinated multi-part plan to ensure that he stayed in power.

Donald Trump was the driver behind each part of this plan. He was personally and directly involved. Of course, a key element of the plan was continuing to convince tens of millions of Americans that he did not, in fact, lose. Again, he did this, even though his own campaign advisers and his Justice Department officials told him his claims of fraud were wrong.

In this video, you'll see that even when top law enforcement officials told the president his election fraud claims were false, he still repeated the claims in the days and weeks that followed. Sometimes, even in the very next day --

BARR: I specifically raise the Dominion voting machines, which I found to be among the most disturbing allegations, disturbing in the sense that I saw absolutely zero basis for the allegations. I told him that it was crazy stuff and they were wasting their time on that. And was doing a great, grave disservice to the country.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a company that's very suspect. Its name is Dominion with the turn of a dial, with a change of a chip.


You could press a button for Trump and the vote goes to Biden. What kind of a system is this?

RICHARD DONOGHUE, FORMER ACTING DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: We definitely talked about Antrim County again. That was sort of done at that point because the hand recount have been done and all that. But we cited back to that to say, you know, this is an example of what people are telling you and what's being filed in some of these court filings that are just not supported by evidence. And this is the problem, the problem that people keep telling you these things and they turn out not to be true.

TRUMP: In addition, there is the highly troubling matter of Dominion voting systems. In one Michigan County alone, 6,000 votes were switched from Trump to Biden. And the same systems are used in the majority of states in our country.

BARR: I went into this and would, you know, tell him how crazy some of these allegations were and how ridiculous some of them were. I'm talking about some of the items like, you know, more votes, more absentee votes were cast in Pennsylvania than they were absentee ballots requests, you know, stuff like that was just easy to blow up. There was never an indication of interest and what the actual facts are.

TRUMP: There were more votes than there were voters. Think of that, you had more votes than you had voters. That's an easy one to figure and spy the thousands.

BARR: Then he raised the big vote dump, as he called it in Detroit. And that, you know, you said people saw boxes coming into the counting station at all hours of the morning, and I said, Mr. President, there are 630 precincts in Detroit and unlike elsewhere in the state, they centralize the counting process. They're not counted in each precinct, they're move to counting stations. And so the normal process would involve boxes coming in at all different hours.

TRUMP: This is Michigan. At 6:31 in the morning, a vote dump of 149,772 votes came in, unexpectedly.

DONOGHUE: With regard to Georgia, we looked at the tape, we interviewed the witnesses. There is no suitcase. The President kept fixating on the suitcase that supposedly had fraudulent ballots that the suitcase was rolled out from under the table. And I said, no, sir, there is no suitcase. You can watch that video over and over. There is no suitcase.

There is a wheeled van where they carry the ballots. And that's just how they move ballots around that facility. There's nothing suspicious about that at all.

TRUMP: Election officials pulled boxes, Democrats and suitcases of ballots out from under a table. You also did in television, totally fraudulent.


LURIA: This happened over and over again. And our committee's report will document it. Purposeful lies made in public directly at odds with what Donald Trump knew from unassailable sources, the Justice Department's own investigations and his own campaign. Donald Trump maliciously repeated this nonsense to a wide audience over and over again. His intent was to deceive. President Trump's plan also involved trying to coerce government officials to change the election outcome in the states he lost. He personally reached out to numerous state officials and pressured them to take unlawful steps to alter the election results in those states. These actions taken directly by the President himself, made it clear what his intentions were -- to prevent the orderly transfer of power.

We all recall, for example, President Trump's tape-recorded call with Georgia Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger. At the time this call occurred, President Trump had already been told repeatedly by the U.S. Justice Department, by his campaign, and by his advisers that his allegations of fraud in Georgia were false.


TRUMP: So, look, all I want to do is this, I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state. Look, we need only 11,000 votes. We have far more than that as it stands now. We'll have more and more. So what are we going to do here folks? I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break.


LURIA: I just want to find 11,780 votes. That's an extraordinary demand by the President, especially since he already knew from the Justice Department, there was no genuine basis for this request.