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CNN Live Event/Special

Reps Bowman, Donalds Debate Solutions On Gun Violence In America; Slew Of Florida Republicans Endorse Trump Over Gov. DeSantis; House Committee War-Games Taiwan Invasion Scenario. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired April 19, 2023 - 21:00   ET



ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Laws of physics. Kirkpatrick said today, they've found no credible evidence yet, of extraterrestrial activity.

Here he is, testifying, about a declassified video, from last year, showing a fast-moving small orb, flying through the camera screen, of a drone, in the Middle East.


VOICE OF SEAN KIRKPATRICK, DIRECTOR OF PENTAGON'S ALL-DOMAIN ANOMALY RESOLUTION OFFICE: You'll see it come through the top of the screen. There it goes. And then the camera will slew to follow it.


COOPER: That case may never be resolved, unless more data is gathered.

That's it for us. The news continues. Want to hand it over Pamela Brown and "CNN PRIMETIME."


PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST, CNN PRIMETIME: Anderson, thank you so much.

Tonight, two lawmakers, two sides of the aisle, two very different points of view.


REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): By whom? The man at 1600?


DONALDS: Oh, please.

BOWMAN: Gretchen Whitmer -- if she wanted to jump in -- she would kill both of them. Secondly, Biden will kill both of them. Biden passed three bipartisan--

DONALDS: That's-- BOWMAN: --Biden passed three bipartisan--

DONALDS: You know what that -- you know what that's like?

BOWMAN: --pieces of legislation.

DONALDS: You know what that's like?

BOWMAN: Biden--

DONALDS: It's like saying Josh Allen is better than Patrick Mahomes.

BOWMAN: Biden--

DONALDS: Come on, now!

BOWMAN: Biden passed three--


BROWN: They started their fiery but civil debate, on the steps, of the Capitol. And they'll continue it, right here, in the studio.

Republican congressman, Byron Donalds, of Florida, and Democratic congressman, Jamaal Bowman, of New York, they are here to debate gun violence, the economy, 2024, and more. That's coming up live.

But first, a wrong doorbell, a wrong driveway, a wrong car, three honest mistakes that any one of us could make, turned deadly, or near fatal, for several young Americans, all within the last week.

In Texas, two cheerleaders shot, for opening the door of a car they thought was theirs. It happened in a supermarket parking lot.

Heather Roth says she was trying to apologize, to the man, in the car, when he allegedly threw up his hands, and pulled out a gun. The 25- year-old man is behind bars, tonight. Roth was struck by a bullet, but is doing fine.

A second cheerleader, 18-year-old Payton Washington was seriously injured, but is said to be doing well.

And in New York, 20-year-old Kaylin Gillis, she did not survive, after she turned into the wrong driveway. The homeowner, who allegedly killed her, denied bail, charged with second degree murder.

Kaylin's father, understandably emotional, while addressing reporters, after that hearing.


ANDY GILLIS, FATHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM KAYLIN GILLIS: For this man, to sit on his porch, and fire at a car, with no threat, is just -- just angers me so badly. And I just hope to God that he dies in jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: And, in Kansas City, another homeowner pleaded not guilty, today, in the shooting, of a Black teen, who went to the wrong address, to pick up his siblings. Andrew Lester is now free on bond.

And we got a fresh look, earlier today, at 16-year-old Ralph Yarl, for the first time, since he was hospitalized, after suffering a traumatic brain injury, a family spokesman calling him, quote, "A walking miracle with a head of steel."

Well, these shootings reigniting the debate, over guns, in this country, nationwide, and on Capitol Hill.

Here's Congressman Jamaal Bowman, just last week, in the halls of Congress, demanding Republicans, act on guns.


BOWMAN: They have control of the House. The American people need to know that they don't have the courage to do anything to save the lives of children.

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): Would you co-sponsor--

BOWMAN: More guns lead to more death.


BROWN: Bowman was one half of a remarkable moment, recently, on the steps of Congress, when two men, on both sides of the debate, faced each other.




BOWMAN: Infrastructure bill.


BOWMAN: Safer Communities Act.


BOWMAN: Historic investments in climate.


BOWMAN: $35 insulin.

DONALDS: High inflation.

BOWMAN: Biden will destroy DeSantis.

DONALDS: Overrun Southern border. BOWMAN: Over--

DONALDS: Fentanyl in everybody's streets.

BOWMAN: DeSantis can't run on being a--


BROWN: Republican, Byron Donalds, and Democrat, Jamaal Bowman, belonging to opposite parties, debating policy, candidly and freely. It is a rare sighting these days. And we're here to continue that conversation, now.

The second-year congressmen join us.

And I should note, you two are friends, despite being on--


BROWN: --on opposite sides of the aisle.

Thank you so much for being here for these important discussions. I think people are just craving civility, in politics, and to hear civil discussions, about the most important topics, of the day.

One of those topics, of course, guns, as we were just talking about. In this culture of fear, do you both agree there is a gun violence crisis, in America?

Who wants to go?


BROWN: All right.

BOWMAN: Absolutely. I mean, the evidence speaks for itself. Guns are the number one killer, of children, in our country.

Because of the culture of fear-mongering that has been facilitated, and nurtured, mostly by the Republican Party, you have people getting shot, innocent people getting shot, in driveways, ringing the wrong doorbell.

You have 14-year-olds, in my district, and I'm sure, not far or within Byron's district, being killed, with illegal guns that are trafficked, from Republican-led States, for the most part.


So, there's a gun epidemic, absolutely, in our country that has been for many years. And we need to move heaven and earth, to stop this. Ban assault rifles. Let's have universal background checks, universal red flag laws. And let's make sure that law enforcement is actually tracking gun crime, in their States.

We -- I learned recently, out of 17,000 law enforcement agencies, only 7,000 track firearm crimes, in their State -- in their jurisdictions. The other 10,000 do not. We need to know where the guns are coming from, how they're getting in, and stop them from getting in, to the places where they're killing Black and poor people.

DONALDS: Well, first of all, a couple of things. The tragedies that we see, on TV, are horrific. Just looking at the footage, of the father, talking about what happened to his daughter, going into the wrong driveway, and his grief? That's something that shakes everybody.

Two things.

One, we do have a criminal justice system that is supposed to hold people accountable, when these tragedies occur. That's number one. So the process does have to work.

But number two, this is the balance. This is where this comes into play. Americans do have constitutional rights, to hold firearms. That is in the Constitution. It is our governing document. And unless members of Congress go through the process, of amending our Constitution, that is the law of the land.

So, I understand the grief that so many families deal with.

But you have more than 100 million gun owners, in our country. They own guns, legally. They own them, lawfully. They respect everybody's humanity. And they use them, for sport, or whatever, and they don't harm other people.

When these tragedies occur, it is horrific. But we also have to understand that in our country, we have a balance, to protect all rights, people's right to live, 100 percent, but people's right also to bear arms. They are equal rights that have to be protected. And Congress is mandated to do that.

Last piece, I will say. Last Congress, I know there was a bill that came through the House. House Democrats, my colleague, Jamaal Bowman, voted for that legislation. I voted against it. It didn't go anywhere, in the Senate.

In Barack Obama's first term, they had control of all three branches. If you remember, they had 60 votes, in the Senate. They could have did everything that Jamaal wanted to do. They didn't do that when Barack Obama was President. Why? Because the data does not support the arguments that we're seeing.

The tragedy speaks to everybody. I'm not discounting the tragedy.

But when you look at the data, long run, for some of the provisions that he's supporting, the assault weapons ban to be one? "The New York Times" came out and reported in 2014, it had no effect. The Department of Justice reported it had no effects. The RAND Corporation did a study. They said it had no effects, on decreasing the atrocities that we unfortunately do see in America.

BROWN: What do you say? BOWMAN: So, first of all, the Second Amendment also reads well- regulated. Right now, the guns, in this country, are not well- regulated.

So, we have assault rifles, getting into the hands, of 18-year-olds, and getting into the hands of people that should not have guns, and then killing children, as young as 6-years-old, in our nation. That is unacceptable.

We need to deal with the well-regulated part of the Second Amendment, as well as the rest of it. That's number one.

Number two, law enforcement, at best, exists, on the back-end, responding to a crime, after it's committed. We need to do a much better -- much better job, of being proactive and preventative, from committing -- from people -- leaving people to commit crimes, in the first place, which means, we have to invest, in historically- disenfranchised communities.

We can't talk about guns, and gun violence, without talking about poverty. We need to spend as much as necessary, to invest in historically-disenfranchised communities, to end poverty, in our country, which deals with the trauma, which deals with the mental health, which deals with the substance abuse. I need to see Republican leadership, on this, and Democratic leadership, on this.

Third, after the Sandy Hook shooting, we still could not ban assault weapons, in our nation. And to Byron's point, yes, Democrats have to be more aggressive, in ensuring that we do what we need to do, not just legislatively, but with our voice, to respond, to the NRA, and respond, to those who continue to be Second Amendment peers.

And then lastly, Republicans are sacrificing our children, for the Second Amendment. Our children, our most precious resource, children that will grow up, to be creators, innovators, designers, solve climate change, save our democracy from itself.

We have Republican members, of the House, wearing assault rifle pins, on the House floor, after mass shootings have occurred. So, this tells you what their priorities are. Assault weapons, the Second Amendment part of it, not the well-regulated part, over the lives of innocent Americans. That's unacceptable.


DONALDS: Well, a couple of things. Number one, I completely disagree with the argument that Republicans are sacrificing the lives of kids. That is not true. Republicans support--

BOWMAN: Do something legislatively.

DONALDS: --law and order, in every community, in America.

BOWMAN: It's not about law and order.

DONALDS: Jamaal, you already know this. BOWMAN: Do something legislatively.

DONALDS: It is about law and order. Do you know why? Because, if you don't take crime, seriously, at the lower level, if you don't take it seriously? It precipitates two things. Number one--

BOWMAN: Why do people commit crime?

DONALDS: Can I finish?


DONALDS: I'll let you talk.

BOWMAN: But you're going to crime.

DONALDS: Let me -- because it's a part of what it's--

BOWMAN: We're talking about guns.

DONALDS: --because it's a part of what we're talking about.


DONALDS: A gun by itself is an object, it is a tool. But what we're talking about, it's used in tragedies, where people lose lives.

Two key things.

Number one, if law enforcement in a jurisdiction does not have the ability to do its job, and hold people accountable, when they break the law?

BOWMAN: Who is saying -- why are you saying--


DONALDS: Well can I finish? Let me make my point.

BROWN: Let him finish. Let him finish.

DONALDS: But let me make -- but let me make my point.

BOWMAN: They're doing their job.

BROWN: Hold on. People are not hearing here (ph), so let's listen.

DONALDS: We have several jurisdictions, where law enforcement is actually prohibited from doing their job.

We can talk about various district attorneys, and various districts, throughout the United States. We could talk about various judges, who actually turned down, holding people accountable, for committing crime.

You have Police officers, in our country, who are doing their job. They're locking up criminals. But then, what happens is the D.A. or the judge, turns them loose, on the back side.

What you create in that environment is number one, a citizenry, who is thinking, "Man, if the Police can't protect me, then I got to do this on my own." That's why law enforcement is critical, to all of this. We got to continue to do that.

BOWMAN: Byron, that's sort of the back-end.

DONALDS: But that's one. Now, let's talk about the front-end.

BOWMAN: That's after the fact.

DONALDS: But let's -- but now let's talk about the front-end.

BOWMAN: Talk about the front-end, please.

DONALDS: If you believe that we should be investing in poverty? The United States--

BOWMAN: Anything poverty.

DONALDS: --the United States government has been doing that to the tune of more than $10 trillion, with the Great Society passed by Lyndon Johnson.

But here's what Republicans support. We have long supported school choice, and opportunities, for parents, to find the best place, for their child to attend. Not every academic institution that you might be a red line for, for lack of a better phrase, fits the need of that child. Help those parents get where they need to go.

Number two--

BOWMAN: Byron, school choice doesn't end poverty.

DONALDS: I'm giving you the tools.

BOWMAN: You all over the place.

DONALDS: Actually, I'm giving you the tools.


DONALDS: No, I'm not. It does.

BOWMAN: All it does--

BROWN: OK. Let's hit it in on school choice.

DONALDS: Because school choice leads to economic opportunity.

BOWMAN: That doesn't end poverty.

DONALDS: And economic opportunity leads to getting out of poverty.

BOWMAN: We have -- we have an economic system-- BROWN: All right. Let's hear what Congress--


BROWN: Let's hear what Congressman Bowman has to say now.

BOWMAN: We have an economic system, where two of the wealthiest Americans, own more wealth than the bottom 50 percent of the country. We have levels of economic inequality that are worse than the Gilded Age.

To truly invest in poverty, you have to reverse the impact, of the disproportionate distribution of wealth that happened post-slavery.

The Homestead Act, which gave the entire west to White Americans, both native and foreign-born that kept Black people from getting that land, those homes, and building wealth.

Black banks have never been invested in, in the way that let's say the Bank of Italy was invested in that now has become Bank of America, one of our largest banks.

You've had Jim Crow, Black laws, KKK, mass incarceration, you've had globalization, where we, with the race to the bottom, chasing low-cost labor, all over the world, taking industrial jobs, out of the Black communities. You know what they -- know what they brought back in? Cops, and drugs and the numbers game.

You gave us an illegal economy, and cops, but never repaired the harm that you have caused, which is why Black -- mostly gun trafficking, is trafficked in the Black and Brown communities. And Black and Brown people are killing each other with it. So, we're not talking about dealing with the issue of poverty. I'm talking about reparations, repairing the historic harm, investing in schools.

And equitably, right now, if you live in a wealthy community, you get more money for your school, than you live in a poor community. And the poor community's only poor because they were redlined, by the United States Government, via the G.I. Bill! Come on, now!

DONALDS: Now, let me address a couple of your things.

So, the first thing you said is about income inequality. Listen, of course, incomes are not equal, because everybody has different levels of talent, ability. People have started in different parts in life. We both acknowledge that.


DONALDS: I will never sit here and say--

BOWMAN: Some were slavemasters.

DONALDS: Hold on. Jamaal, let me -- Jamaal, let me--

BROWN: Got to finish. BOWMAN: Some were slaves.

DONALDS: But Jamaal?

BROWN: Got to finish.


DONALDS: I'm never going to sit here, and say that Black people, in America, started at the same place of other people in America. I'm not going to make that point. Because we both know that is not true.

But let's talk about the reality of economics, today, in America. You mentioned the Gilded Age that it was actually less income inequality, back during the time, of the aristocracy, and kings and queens, than today. That is factually not true, because the Kings owned all. The serfs, the peasants owned nothing.


Even in America, today, where you have people, who have enormous wealth. You have a lot of people, on the low end, the bottom end, of our socioeconomic spectrum, who have better lives, better conditions, make more money, than the serfs ever did, during that time. Do you know what unleashed that? Free market capitalism in the West is what unleashed that. That's number one.

Number two, if you're going to get to a situation, where Black wealth grows, or frankly, people on the lower end, of the socioeconomic spectrum's wealth grows, then, you have to respect property rights.

Because once you let the government, say that they have the ability to partake from one to give, to the other? Or to say that "You know what? We're going to go borrow, frankly, more than the $32 trillion, we already owe to other people. And we're going to just borrow that, and then make future Americans, across the board, pay that debt?" Then, what you also are saying is there is no respect, for individual property, there is no respect for individual assets, there is no respect, for the innovation, necessary, to create all the wealth that's been created, in America.

I'm not sitting here to say that, "Oh, it's all fair. It's all good." Life ain't fair. You want fair? Go to a carnival. Go get you an Elephant Ear. Life's not fair. I will never say that.

But what I say is, and what I advocate for, is that our economic system, by far, is the most fair, because it gives people, like ourselves, an ability, to change where we came from, which we both did, to where we are now. There are people, colleagues of mine, friends of mine, from high school, they've achieved more than me, they've achieved less than me. This is the way life is, in America.

And what we got to be honest about, and be direct to the American people are, is that if you actually take education, family creation, choices, in life, college, that's one, we could talk about that too, and all those various things, you bring them together, in our fabric of an economic engine that actually grows and doesn't stagnate? That's the pathway towards success.

BOWMAN: So, please explain to me why -- let's stay with the racial issue, for a second.

DONALDS: Sure, go ahead.

BOWMAN: Second.

DONALDS: Go ahead.

BOWMAN: Black people have worse education outcomes, worse economic outcomes, worse healthcare outcomes, and a shorter lifespan. Do you think that's genetic?

DONALDS: Well, the first I will say is that economic--

BOWMAN: Do you think that's genetic?

DONALDS: No, no, actually--

BOWMAN: Do you think--

DONALDS: No, I don't.

BOWMAN: Do you think we still have this--

DONALDS: No, I don't.

BOWMAN: --level of racial wealth inequality in America, because of genetics?

DONALDS: No, I don't.

BOWMAN: You don't. Hold on. I'm not finished.

DONALDS: Go ahead.

BOWMAN: We -- I would argue--

DONALDS: Because I actually think Black people, we're talented. We can do it all.

BOWMAN: Well, listen.

DONALDS: But that's me.

BOWMAN: There's no question about that.


BOWMAN: That's why you and I are here.

DONALDS: There we go. There we go.

BOWMAN: We are examples of that, right?

DONALDS: There we go.

BOWMAN: My point is, we are anomalies. We are outliers to our people writ large. And we see disproportionate harm, to our people, that has to be addressed.

Now, in terms of present day. I mentioned the wealth inequality.


BOWMAN: We still have a regressive tax code, when it comes to the wealthiest Americans. I would argue that the wealthiest Americans are not contributing their fair share, to our government.

DONALDS: Well, wait.

BOWMAN: Now -- hold, hold, let me finish.

DONALDS: Tell me.

BOWMAN: I would also argue--

DONALDS: Go ahead, go ahead.

BOWMAN: --that large corporations do not contribute their fair share, to our democracy.

And, as a result of that, the government is not generating the revenue that it would need, to reinvest, in universal childcare, which is absolutely necessary, for a thriving society, paid leave, which we're the only developed nation that doesn't have paid leave, universal pre- K, and investments on the front-end, so that we can have better long- term outcomes.

Because of historical trauma, in certain communities, those communities, and because of consistent, persistent political harm that comes from the policies, we are not enacting, in Congress? Certain groups of people are not moving forward.

Now, the last thing I'll say is this.


BOWMAN: We have been trying and pushing President Biden, to pass transformational legislation, to address some of these issues. I want to name a few.

The CHIPS and Science Act, bipartisan piece of legislation, passed by the President. The Inflation Reduction Act, passed by the President. The bipartisan infrastructure bill, passed by the President. The Safer Communities Act, passed by the President, which was also bipartisan.

Between the IRA and the CHIPS and Science Act, we already see jobs with -- money just started going out the door. $200 billion, created 82,000 jobs, 75 percent, to Republican jurisdictions.

So, just transitioning to the kind of leadership we need, from the Executive, the President has done some good things. But obviously, we have to push him to do much more. And we need Republicans, and Democrats, on the same page, to take our country to the place it's never been. All arguments are not going to suffice.

BROWN: All right.


BROWN: Really quickly. And then, we're going to come back and finish the discussion after this break.

DONALDS: Ooh, really quickly? He's got a lot in there.

BROWN: I know.

DONALDS: I got to respond.

BROWN: But then you can do the other -- you can do it after the break. But go ahead.

DONALDS: Let me tackle one thing, and we'll come back to the other stuff.


DONALDS: If you're talking about the ability, for kids, on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum, to learn? They have every capability to do that.

But what do most kids, who are poor, in America realize, they're in an educational system, where A, they don't have the resources to them, B, some of the standards have been lowered, because the--

BOWMAN: That's not true.

DONALDS: Oh, yes, it is true.

BOWMAN: I've worked, in education, for 20 years.

DONALDS: Oh, yes, it is -- no, no, no, no.

BOWMAN: That's not true.

DONALDS: I've seen the data. My mother worked in education too.

BOWMAN: That's not true.

DONALDS: I've seen the data. I've seen the facts.

BOWMAN: It is not true.

DONALDS: Standards have been lowered in mathematics, and in reading.

BOWMAN: It's not true.

[21:20:00] DONALDS: But to say, "Oh well there's not"--

BOWMAN: We have a Common Core Standards--


DONALDS: We have cities -- we have cities that have done this.

BOWMAN: We have a Common Core.

DONALDS: We have cities that have done this.

I let you talk. Now, let me talk.

BOWMAN: Yes, go ahead.

BROWN: It's his turn.

DONALDS: So, if you're not going to have an adequate standard, for kids, to rise and meet, how do you expect them to go ahead and thrive? That's one thing. That's just one thing.

BOWMAN: All right.

DONALDS: So, that's why I advocate for, we should actually have many opportunities, for kids, to go find the academic outfit that they need, for their success, because their brilliance is unmatched, but it's got to be unleashed.


DONALDS: And unfortunately, whether, between a lot of things going on, at home, and things going on, in the public school system, it's not being unleashed.

BROWN: OK. We're -- pause right there.

DONALDS: I'll pause here.

BROWN: But I'll let you finish at the other side of this break, because, you're right, you do deserve more time. Trying to be fair here, and equitable.

BOWMAN: Yes, yes.

BROWN: And thank you, both, for bringing the fire and the civility. We're going to continue this conversation.

Up next, inside the 2024 race, as we get new insight, into Biden's reelection plans. Meanwhile, Governor Ron DeSantis, losing support, in his own backyard. Why so many Florida Republicans are flocking to Donald Trump, instead, when we return.


BROWN: Top Democratic donors, and fundraisers, have been invited, to D.C., to meet with President Biden, next week. This, as the President gets closer, to a likely reelection announcement.


And meanwhile, Ron DeSantis, with at least one major donor, reportedly backing away, traveled to Washington, this week, looking to rally congressional Republicans, around him. But instead, several House Republicans are now formally backing Donald Trump, over the Governor, of their own State.

It's a wave of endorsements that started with a man, who introduced DeSantis, at his victory rally, on Election Night, last year.

That of course, would be you, Congressman Donalds.


BROWN: So, tell us. Why did you choose Trump over DeSantis?

DONALDS: Well, hold on. I'm going to come back to that in a moment.

BROWN: OK. Finish -- finish your thoughts.

DONALDS: We got to address some things, America, no?


DONALDS: OK. Our tax code is one of the most progressive, in the world. It is not regressive.

The top 1 percent pays 20 percent of the entire federal income tax bill. The top 30 percent -- top 40 percent, excuse me, pays over 60 percent. The top 90 percent pay everything -- actually, the top 50 percent pay everything. The 10 percent. Got it wrong. The top 10 paid 90 percent of everything. OK? It is by far one of the most progressive in the world.

I think what you're referring to is dealing with FICA and payroll taxes, which everybody pays, because everybody does pay, into Social Security and Medicare. We got to understand that.

Number two, we raised more revenue, in the United States, under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, some people refer to it, at the Trump tax cuts. We raised more revenue than at any point, in American history, $4.5 trillion. We've never raised that kind of money, in the United States.

So, we raise tax revenue, all over the place. Corporations are paying. Rich people are paying. Upper middle-class people are paying. Middle- class people are paying. And trust me they're paying, because if you ask them what's going on, on their tax bill, they'll tell you. So, they're paying the taxes.

The problem is here, in Washington, D.C., we spend way more than we have. We just raised $4.5 trillion. We spent $6 trillion, last year, $6 trillion. The President wants to go spend $7 trillion. I mean, that just doesn't make any sense at all. That is not sustainable. We do have to get our house in order. If then you want to talk about all these things, Jamaal that you're talking about. Because the thing that's coming for every American, every American, under this economy, number one has been inflation. We all know it. It's been covered at nauseam.

Number two is the fact that if we continue to borrow money, recklessly, interest on the debt, will become larger, than what we pay, on defense, larger than what we pay in discretionary programs. We got to take seriously, the spending, of the American people's money, and we got to do it, in a consistent and bipartisan way, I will add -- I will add, to make sure that we lower our debt that we get on a balanced budget track.

Now, hold on. Now, to the other question, about DeSantis.

BROWN: OK. Here we go.

DONALDS: So, here's the deal. Yes, I have endorsed--

BROWN: Here's the deal.

DONALDS: --I have endorsed President Trump.

Looking at the world, right now, we are on the precipice, frankly, of World War III, in a lot of cases. Russia is heavily involved in Ukraine. China is negotiating with Brazil, and other countries, around the United States dollar. They're becoming way more aggressive, with Taiwan. And in short, they're doing this because they see weakness, with the current Commander-in-Chief, one, Joe Biden.

My view, on the presidential primaries, amongst Republicans, is that our nominee's got to hit the ground, running on day one, and be able to say to the world, "Look, American leadership is back. We're not going to have countries and their sovereignties be taken advantage of. We want to actually have global security and global trade and, frankly, global harmony."

I remember Hillary Clinton, once said, in a debate, in 2016, that if Donald Trump became President of the United States, we will be on the precipice of World War III. Well, that never happened. As a matter of fact, the world got a lot safer. If anybody's got us on the precipice, is Joe Biden.

So, if you ask me a decision, between Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis, what I'm looking for, is somebody, who can come in day one, and get America back on track. Donald Trump has done it once. He can do it again.

And I would ask all Americans, you have President Trump, you have President Biden. They've both done the job. The question is who did it better?

BROWN: I'm going to let you respond to that one.

DONALDS: Do we know the answer to that one? BOWMAN: No, no, I appreciate that.

DONALDS: We know the answer.

BOWMAN: Let me just go to his first point. So, Warren Buffett's secretary pays a higher tax than Warren Buffett, higher tax rate than Warren Buffett. That's the America we live in. The majority of Americans cannot adequately respond to a $400 emergency.

I don't know what kind of district brother Byron represents. But I represent people, who live in the Projects, people who live in public housing, where we haven't invested a dime, in public housing, in over 10 years.

So, this extraordinary economy that the brother's talking about, doesn't trickle down to my constituents, who live in Edenwald projects, doesn't trickle down to my constituents, who live in the poor areas, of Mount Vernon, Yonkers, New Rochelle, Port Chester and Greenburgh.

So, this glorious economy, where the wealthy, continue to hide trillions, overseas, and use the money, for stock buybacks, instead of creating new jobs? That's the economy that people are living with, and dealing with, every day.

And then, when we talk about inflation, these companies are price- gouging, making record profits, during the Pandemic, and post- Pandemic, because they're raising prices, even after we dealt with the supply chain issue.


Now, in terms of Donald Trump? The brother's making the debate, way too easy, for me.

World War III? We had the first attack on the U.S. Capitol, since the War of 1812! The first attack on the U.S. Capitol, by U.S. citizens, in U.S. history! Who facilitated and nurtured this attack? Donald J. Trump!

DONALDS: That's actually not true.

BOWMAN: On Twitter.

DONALDS: That's actually not true.

BOWMAN: On all these social media platforms.

DONALDS: That's not true.

BOWMAN: "Come on January 6!"

DONALDS: Name a statement.

BOWMAN: "Let's go get crazy."

DONALDS: Jamaal, name a statement.

BOWMAN: "I'm going to meet," he told in his speech, "I'm going to meet you down there."

DONALDS: Come on, man! Come on, man!

BOWMAN: He tried to brawl with the Secret Service. They was like "Chill President Trump, you bugging, you can't ride with us." He let his supporters come in, past the metal detectors, with guns, during the speech, on January 6.

DONALDS: Oh, that's also not true.

BOWMAN: They were carrying wooden crosses, down the street.

DONALDS: That is not true.

BOWMAN: This is what he did.

BROWN: He knew some of them were armed.

BOWMAN: So, he's endorsing an insurrectionist!

DONALDS: Not true at all.

BOWMAN: He's part of a party--

DONALDS: Not true at all.

BOWMAN: --that many of them voted, to overturn the election results, and pushed the Big Lie. This is the one man, who's walking--

DONALDS: Democrats have voted to overturn elections, too, Jamaal.


BOWMAN: Brother!

BROWN: Well.

DONALDS: Democrats haven't voted--

BOWMAN: Choose a double party (ph).

DONALDS: Democrats haven't voted to overturn election?

BOWMAN: I'm sorry?

DONALDS: They didn't do that in 2004? They didn't do that in 2000? That's not--

BOWMAN: I'm talking about right now!

DONALDS: You were bringing up old stuff.

BOWMAN: Trump wasn't-- DONALDS: So, I'm bringing up old stuff too.

BOWMAN: Trump admitted to -- Trump was caught on tape--

DONALDS: I didn't hear it (ph). Say again. Say again.

BOWMAN: Trump was caught on tape admitting to sexually assaulting women. "I just grabbed them" by the, you-know-what. He was recently indicted, in New York, for hush money payments, to a porn star. This is the dude you endorse?

DONALDS: You and I both know an indictment is foolishness. And I will--

BOWMAN: Foolishness?

DONALDS: It's foolishness.

BOWMAN: Well, listen.

DONALDS: It's political and you know that.

BOWMAN: My idea--

DONALDS: Well let me go ahead. I'll raise you one better.

BOWMAN: Go ahead.

DONALDS: I'll raise you one better.


BOWMAN: Raise it.

DONALDS: Because if we're going to talk about stuff, going on, in the background? You have the President's brother, the President's son, they are taking wire payments, from people, across the globe.

Jamaal, I've seen some of the documents myself. They are taking these payments. We've already documented a million dollars going to Hunter Biden, facilitated with other members, of the Biden family, while he's sending in the--

BOWMAN: Hunter Biden not running for president.

DONALDS: That's -- well dude! Stop that!

BOWMAN: Hunter Biden is not running for president.

DONALDS: Stop that! You know -- now you know better than that.

BOWMAN: Joe Biden is the President!

DONALDS: You know better than that. You know better than that.

BOWMAN: Joe Biden is-- DONALDS: If Hunter Biden is getting money from Chinese, from people, with Chinese companies? If he's facilitating the sale of a cobalt mine, to China, while Joe Biden is setting energy policy, in the United States? You don't think that man is compromised? Come on!

BOWMAN: Well--

DONALDS: You don't think he knows what his son is doing?

BOWMAN: Well, man, this is--

DONALDS: He doesn't know what his son is doing?

BOWMAN: You're talking about Hunter Biden, right now.

DONALDS: Come on! You're going to sit here, and tell me, he doesn't know what his son is doing?

BOWMAN: Listen.

BROWN: OK. All right. Let's--

DONALDS: I'm telling you that the President's judgment is compromised.

BROWN: I want to -- I want to get--

DONALDS: That's what I'm telling you.

BROWN: --I want to bring this back, because we can really go, to a lot of places, here, but I want to go back to 2024, and the two frontrunners, for the Republican Party, and the Democratic Party.


BROWN: Trump and Biden, they would be the oldest presidents in U.S. history.


BROWN: So, what do you see as the future of your party, after Biden and Trump?

BOWMAN: So, the future of our party is Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez. The future of our party is Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley. The future of our party is Cori Bush, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Summer Lee, Greg Casar, Hakeem Jeffries, Gretchen Whitmer, Greg Newsom -- Governor Newsom, Wes Moore, on and on and on.

BROWN: All right, well then let me ask you.

BOWMAN: Our bench is crazy!

BROWN: Let me ask you this, then.

BOWMAN: Our bench is off the hook!

BROWN: Hold on, Congressman. Then, would you -- are you going to endorse Biden, assuming he's going to announce?

BOWMAN: Oh, yes.

BROWN: Or would you like to see one of them?

BOWMAN: 2024--

BROWN: 2024?

BOWMAN: If Biden announces a run for 2024, I'm going to endorse Biden.

BROWN: You will?

BOWMAN: Yes. And then we will do whatever we got to do, to push him, to hold him accountable, to make sure he's responding to the American people. That's all we've been doing.

The American people want to see universal healthcare, universal childcare, investments in housing, investments in dealing with climate change. They want to see a woman have a right to her own reproductive rights. This is what the American people want to see, by and large, even in Republican States and counties. So, we're going to hold him accountable to that.

BROWN: What do you see as the future of your party after Biden and Trump?

DONALDS: Oh, man, our future's bright! Are you kidding me? We already have America's Governor, in Ron DeSantis. You have Governor Youngkin. You have Governor Noem. You got Tim Scott. You have -- we have so many -- our roster is super-deep. You got people, in Congress, right now, who, frankly, they can do a significantly better job, than a lot of people--

BOWMAN: I could beat everyone you just mentioned in a presidential debate.

DONALDS: Hold on, man! I let you talk.



DONALDS: No, you don't. Because you can't even stand next to me, in presidential debate. But let's move on.

BOWMAN: I could beat any of them you just mentioned.

DONALDS: Are you going to let me talk? Or you're going to finish talking?

BOWMAN: I'm sorry. My brother, I'm sorry.

DONALDS: OK. There we go, here we go.

But let me go back to what the American people need. We have a problem, at our southern border, created by Joe Biden. The southern border is a mess. It is created by the President, on purpose. There are 70,000 deaths per year from fentanyl, per year, since he's been President of the United States. We were talking--


DONALDS: We were talking, in the opening segment, about guns. But the Democrats don't want to do anything about the border. They act like it doesn't exist.

The Czar, the Border Czar, she was down there, for an hour and a half. I've made four trips myself.


I could tell you, right now, the four things you need to do, to secure it.

Number one, give border agency the ability, to actually make determinations, of credible fear.

Number two, you can't allow rampant asylum, at the southern border, because what is happening is the drug cartels are taking advantage, of our border policy. There are young girls, who were being raped, on the journey, to our southern border. That is happening, right now, today, under the nose and the guise of Joe Biden, and the Democrats.

The American people don't want to see fentanyl in our streets, killing family members, killing friends. People taking a Valium or whatever it's laced with fentanyl and they're dying as a result. The American people don't want that.

Number two, the American people want an economy, where inflation isn't crushing their pocketbooks. Wages are actually up. But the problem is that wages, adjusted for inflation, are down. Everybody's falling behind.

Black families have fallen behind, under Joe Biden. Under Donald Trump, Black families were actually making more money, building more wealth, had more economic opportunity. That has all eroded under Joe Biden, and is getting worse. Seniors on fixed incomes, they're falling behind.

The very people, Jamaal that you want to help, they're falling behind, under your President. They're not the same group of Americans than they were, in 2018. And we all get the Pandemic. It was awful. And we've now moved past that.

But we got to get back to sound economic principle that works for everybody. And what Joe Biden and the Democrats are offering doesn't work. And the people you listed? They all support these same economic policies, or worse. That's not going to be helpful for the future of America.

BOWMAN: So, not much of what you just said was true, but I'm going to leave -- I'm going to leave-- DONALDS: Oh, every part of it was true.

BOWMAN: --I'm going to leave you to that.

BROWN: That's -- I'm letting you respond to him.

DONALDS: Every part of it is true.

BOWMAN: So, I have -- I have also visited the border.


BOWMAN: And I met with Border Patrol Police. And they told me well over 90 percent of the people they stop are not committing any crimes at all. Their only crime is seeking asylum in our country, if you want to call it a crime.

DONALDS: But you're not allowed--

BOWMAN: Hold on, number one.

DONALDS: Hold on, Jamaal? Under federal law, today--

BOWMAN: Number two -- number two?

DONALDS: One second, one thing, real quick. I haven't interrupted you. But I got to stop you here.

BOWMAN: All right. Number two?

DONALDS: Under federal law, today--

BOWMAN: Be quick, hurry up.

DONALDS: --you're not allowed to claim asylum, at the southern border. Joe Biden is ignoring the law, and allowing that process to pass the southern border (ph).

BOWMAN: OK. Stop there. Stop there. OK. OK. Let me finish.

DONALDS: That's the law, folks.

BOWMAN: Number two, 70 percent of fentanyl that comes in here is brought in by American citizens. That's a fact.

DONALDS: That's not passed through the border.

BOWMAN: Number three, I've also visited the Northern Triangle, where the majority of mass migration comes from.

Have you heard of United Fruit?


BOWMAN: Have you heard of the Iran--Contra scandal?

DONALDS: Mm-hmm.

BOWMAN: Are you very familiar with the way America, and our Western allies, have disrupted the economies, in Central and South America, leading to abject poverty, hunger, and despair, and how we have funded militaries, and Police, in those countries, to intimidate, so that corporations can come in and mine? We've left them with nothing. That's why they're coming here, seeking asylum.

And then third, I've met recently, with one of the top economic advisers, in the country. And the Economic Forum, in our country, one of their main priorities is, comprehensive immigration reform, because immigrants are the engine of our economy. And right now, because of Trump's disruptive policies, they're dealing with fear, and despair, as they try to enter, like Title 42.

DONALDS: A disruptive policy that unleashed America's economy?

BROWN: Here's the bottom line. Here's the thing.

DONALDS: The disruptive policies that allowed Americans to thrive than at any other time in American history, since the Reagan administration?

BOWMAN: I don't know who--

DONALDS: Those disruptive economic policies?

BOWMAN: Reagan facilitated the Iran--Contra scandal.

DONALDS: I will tell you this.

BROWN: All right, gentleman.

DONALDS: There are Americans, White, Black, Hispanic--

BROWN: We're going to have to--

DONALDS: --they want those economic policies back--

BROWN: Here's the bottom line.

DONALDS: --because it has worked for them.

BROWN: You both have to come back, because clearly there's a lot more to discuss. But I want to thank you both. I really mean that.

BOWMAN: Of course.

BROWN: Millions of people in America, they believe everything you just said.

Millions of people believe what you just said.

I think it is important to hear different perspectives, and to have tolerance for those perspectives. And you both showed that. So, thank you very much. Thank you. BOWMAN: Thank you, sir.

DONALDS: Absolutely. Absolutely.

BROWN: There we go!

All right, I just -- I just sat here. My job was easy! So, thank you, also, for making my job so easy.

Well, the Supreme Court buys more time, to issue a ruling, on a drug, millions of women use, to end early pregnancies. Does the extension signal disagreement among the conservative majority that upended Roe v. Wade?

Abby Phillip is next.



BROWN: Tonight, access to the common abortion drug, Mifepristone, still legal, at least for now, after the Supreme Court temporarily extended a block, on a lower court ruling that would limit access to the drug.

The new deadline is now set, for this Friday evening. But it's anyone's guess how the High Court will rule, and what access, to the FDA-approved drug, will look like, in the future. At issue here is the FDA's approval, of the abortion drug, which for the past 23 years, has been deemed safe, and effective, by the medical community.

Joining us now is CNN's Abby Phillip.

So, let's talk about today. There's already so much uncertainty, and confusion. Today's administrative stay essentially just adds to that, right? So what can we expect from here?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR & SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I mean, I tend to kind of believe that if they had the votes, today, to either allow Mifepristone, to continue to be utilized, as it has been, for the last 20 years, or continue with Judge Kacsmaryk's ruling, as a -- on a permanent basis, they would have done it.

But they're not doing it, because they need more time. They need more time either to take a look at the briefs. And there have been a lot of briefs that have been filed, especially over the last several days, to the court. Or, they need more time to sort out where the votes are, and to sort out where whether or not there are going to be written opinions.

I think there have been a lot of legal experts, who have said, "We're not just going to get a judgment here. We may get some actual rationale and some explanation." And that is probably all we know, at this moment, and we'll see what comes next.

But this is a really uncertain time, for the abortion rights movement. Because you're looking at a court system, not just the Supreme Court, but a court system, at the federal level, that is probably the most conservative, as it has been, in several generations.

BROWN: And it's interesting too, depending on how the court decides, because we know what happened right, after Roe v. Wade was overturned. And so much of that opinion was about letting States decide, leave it up to the States.

But if the High Court upholds the lower court's opinion, on this, from the judge?


BROWN: That single judge in Texas? That would essentially have a huge impact, on the States that have a--


BROWN: --that are -- allow abortion.

PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, this is why I think this particular case is such a, almost like a Pandora's Box of potential legal issues.


You're not just talking about the fact that it would mean basically taking what has been a States' rights argument, and making it national, again, which I do think poses a problem, for the Supreme Court that just ruled in Dobbs that they were going to let it go back to the States.

But the second problem is the going on effects on the FDA approval process, in general. You do have to wonder whether the Supreme Court is going to want to open the door, to any sort of complaints, coming before the federal court system, and saying "This drug, this vaccine, this treatment, this therapy, we think that it is not safe," based on whatever the rationale is, I do think it really opens up a whole new world here.

And that is, in addition to the abortion effects, that's another major step, for the court that I think they probably are taking more time, to look at that part of it too.

BROWN: And I want to also note, this is, it's dubbed often an abortion pill.


BROWN: But I know people, who had a miscarriage--

PHILLIP: Exactly.

BROWN: --or they had a pregnancy that wasn't viable, and they relied on these pills, to take. So, I just think, also, there was a lot of complexity, to this issue, right? And it's going to be really interesting to see how the High Court decides. PHILLIP: And knowing that Mifepristone is a two-drug regimen. And what our health experts have said, and health experts, across the spectrum, have said is that if you then rely on the one drug, it's not as effective. And what does that mean, for women?

You do have to wonder how much, is the court weighing that. How much is the court weighing the preponderance of evidence, over 20-plus years of approval, versus weighing, what is a clear ideological effort, on the part of the people, bringing the case, to take this drug, off the market, so as to reduce the number of abortions that are happening in the United States? That is such a huge part of this picture here.

And I also think that as it relates to just healthcare in general, we've seen, the stories are already happening. I think the chilling effect is already there, on the healthcare community. We see it in the anecdotal stories that are all across the country, about doctors, who are just hesitant, to treat patients, with very complex gynecological conditions, because of the legal environment, around all of this.

BROWN: All right, Abby Phillip, thank you so much.

Catch "INSIDE POLITICS" at 11 AM, on Sunday.

War-gaming, on Capitol Hill, tonight, lawmakers preparing for an actual scenario, in which China invades Taiwan, after the country conducts live fire drills, around the self-governing democracy. That's next.



BROWN: Tonight, another sign, of growing tension, between China and Taiwan.

The U.S. House Select Committee on China is hosting a war-game scenario, to play out how a potential Chinese invasion, of its neighbor, could unfold. The simulation comes, just over a week, after China's Military conducted live fire drills, around Taiwan, in response to the Taiwanese President's visit to California, this month.

CNN's Chief National Security Correspondent, Jim Sciutto, is here with us.

So, this clearly signals that lawmakers are taking this very seriously. They are concerned, as China continues to seemingly take steps toward invading Taiwan.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, CNN NEWS CENTRAL: No question. Lawmakers are concerned. The Intelligence agencies are. The Pentagon is.

And most importantly of all, Taiwan is concerned. I spoke to the Foreign Minister, last week. And he watched these exercises unfold, a little more than a week ago, and said these are not just symbolic that they are signs that China's preparing for war.

So, you have this committee, now, war-gaming, which is something that the Pentagon does frequently, and we're seeing on the Hill now, to see how this might play out.

And just, for folks at home to have a sense, of what war games have shown, so far, CSIS, another think tank did 24 -- a series of 24 war games, in January. And the losses, in a conflict, like this, over Taiwan, are staggering. We haven't seen, as a country, losses like this, since World War II.

In their exercises, both sides, by the way, lose dozens of warships. Not one or two dozens. They lose thousands to tens of thousands of servicemembers, many dozens of aircraft, as well, on both sides. So, two aircraft carriers, in the war games, they carried out, the U.S. losing two aircraft carriers, which as you know, each one carries 5,000 sailors.

So, the scale of this conflict, if it were to break out, these war games show would be beyond anything we've seen, since the middle of the last century.

BROWN: And you mentioned, you spoke to Taiwan's Foreign Minister.


BROWN: Let's listen to what he said.


SCIUTTO: Is Beijing, in your view, threatening Taiwan, with war?

JOSEPH WU CHAO-HSIEH, TAIWANESE POLITICIAN, MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF THE REPUBLIC OF CHINA: Yes, indeed. Look at the military exercises, and also their rhetoric. They seem to be trying to get ready to launch a war against Taiwan.


BROWN: I mean, he was really direct there.

SCIUTTO: He was. And one reason he said that, to me was those exercises that -- they were a joint strike, in effect, an air, land and sea attack, on Taiwan.

That's not just a cert -- that's not just encircling the island, blockading it, which is an option that have been discussed that China might consider. That is an operation, to take over the island and with enormous Military casualties, but potentially civilian casualties as well.

We don't know that China is going to do this. But we do know that the CIA Director said, in public testimony, that he believes Xi Jinping has told his Military to be ready, by 2027, to do just that.

So, tonight, as we're speaking, members on the Hill are now war-gaming this out, to see what it would look like. And based on what they've seen so far, it's not pretty.

BROWN: That's frightening.


BROWN: All right, Jim Sciutto, thank you. Congrats on the new show, by the way.

SCIUTTO: Thanks so much.

BROWN: Catch "NEWS CENTRAL" tomorrow, at 1 PM Eastern.

SCIUTTO: Appreciate it.

BROWN: Up next, former Fox News anchor, Gretchen Carlson, made an urgent plea, with Dominion Voting Systems, not to settle their lawsuit, with the Network. And now, she is breaking her silence, on the historic settlement.

You're going to hear from her, up next.



BROWN: Tonight, former Fox News anchor, Gretchen Carlson, explaining why she didn't want Dominion to settle, with the Network, even though she reached her own $20 million settlement, with Fox's parent company, after alleging sexual harassment, and retaliation.


GRETCHEN CARLSON, FORMER FOX NEWS ANCHOR: As somebody who's also had a very high-profile lawsuit, against the former CEO and Chairman of Fox News, Roger Ailes, as somebody who's been silenced as a result of that -- with being able to tell all the facts of what actually happened to me -- you know, I was vicariously living through Dominion, and hoping that they would be able to get to the truth.


CARLSON: I would love to be able to reach out to all of those Fox News viewers and hope that somehow we could get them back into the reality of what's really going on. But I think we're so far gone in this fake news era that I'm not necessarily hopeful about that.


BROWN: Fox still faces a $2.7 billion defamation suit, filed by Smartmatic, another voting technology company.

Up next, on "CNN TONIGHT," Alisyn Camerota speaks with Fox News viewers, about the network's settlement. Will it change how they see Fox?

Alisyn, this will be interesting to see. I cannot wait to watch. ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT: Thanks, Pam. It was really interesting to talk to them. It certainly was eye-opening for me. So, thank you, hope you tune in.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to CNN TONIGHT.

Every night, this week, we've reported, on a young person, in America, getting shot, after making an innocent mistake, ringing the wrong doorbell, pulling into the wrong driveway. And now, opening the wrong car door.

Two teenage cheerleaders, in Texas, shot, in a grocery store parking lot, after they mistook the suspect's car, for their own.

On Saturday, in Upstate New York, 20-year-old Kaylin Gillis was shot to death, in a friend's car that pulled into the wrong driveway. Her grieving father explains what he hopes, happens, to the shooter.


GILLIS: Angers me so badly. And I just hope to God that he dies in jail.


CAMEROTA: Tonight, we're going to talk about one city that has managed to cut gun violence, in half. And we'll find out how they did it.