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CNN Obtains The Tape Of Trump's 2021 Conversation About Classified Documents; Putin Addresses Country After Armed Rebellion; Zelenskyy Visits Troops On The Front Lines As Putin Grapples With Revolt In Russia. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired June 26, 2023 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: David is survived by his beloved wife, Catherine; their kids, Amber and Harrison; and two granddaughters, Sloan and Paige. Our hearts go out to them, and to all the friends and colleagues remembering him, tonight.
Thank you, David. You are missed.
The news continues. "CNN PRIMETIME" with Kaitlan Collins starts, right now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, CNN PRIMETIME: Thanks, Anderson.
I'm Kaitlan Collins.
And tonight, we now have the crucial evidence that is at the center of the Special Counsel's criminal prosecution, of Donald Trump. You're going to hear it in just moments.
This is a recording that CNN was first to report on and now has exclusively obtained. The tape of the former President, talking in July of 2021, about a sensitive document that he kept, after leaving the White House, acknowledging, on the audio recording, that it was classified, and that he could not declassify it, given he was no longer in Office, and that he knew he couldn't show it to the people that he was talking to, who we're told did not have security clearances.
You also hear paper rustling, as if he's brandishing the paper, to those who were in the room with him.
The document in question was about a potential Military strike, on Iran.
And, as I noted, CNN first reported, on this recording, late last month. Now, here's the recording itself.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, 45TH U.S. PRESIDENT: These are bad sick people, but --
STAFFER: That was your coup, you know, against you. That-- TRUMP: Well, it started right at the beginning--
STAFFER: Like when Milley is talking about, "Oh, you were going to try to do a coup." No, they were trying to do that before you even were sworn in.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's right.
STAFFER: Trying to overthrow your election.
TRUMP: Well, with Milley-uh, let me see that, I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. (PAPERS SHUFFLING)
Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look. (PAPERS SHUFFLING) This was him. They presented me this -- this is off the record -- but they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.
WRITER: Wow.
TRUMP: We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff-pages long, look.
STAFFER: Mm.
TRUMP: Wait a minute, let's see here. (PAPERS SHUFFLING)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Oh my gosh.
STAFFER: (LAUGHTER) yes.
TRUMP: I just found, isn't that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know.
STAFFER: Mm-hm.
TRUMP: Except it is like, highly confidential.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack, and...
STAFFER: Hillary would print that out all the time, you know.
TRUMP: She'd send it...
STAFFER: Her private emails.
TRUMP: No, she'd send it to Anthony Weiner.
MULTIPLE: (LAUGHTER) yes.
TRUMP: The pervert.
STAFFER: Please print. TRUMP: By the way. Isn't that incredible?
STAFFER: Yes.
TRUMP: I was just thinking, because we were talking about it. And you know, he said, "He wanted to attack Iran, and what..."
These are the papers.
STAFFER: You did.
TRUMP: This was done by the Military and given to me. Uh, I think we can probably, right?
STAFFER: I don't know, we'll, we'll have to see. Yes, we'll have to try to --
TRUMP: Declassify it.
STAFFER: -- figure out a -- yes.
TRUMP: See as president, I could have declassified it.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER) Now we have a problem.
TRUMP: Isn't that interesting?
STAFFER: Yes.
TRUMP: It's so cool. I mean, it' so, look, her and I, and you probably almost didn't believe me, but now you believe me.
WRITER: No, I believed you.
TRUMP: It's incredible, right?
WRITER: No, they never met a war they didn't want.
TRUMP: Hey, bring some, uh, bring some Cokes in please.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Now, I want to bring in CNN Legal Analyst, Elie Honig, and Karen Agnifilo.
I mean, it is stunning to actually hear it. We knew what he said. But to actually hear the audio, to hear the tone, to you hear the conversation, the laughter, in there? I mean, I am not a prosecutor. I imagine this is a prosecutor's dream?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: It's exactly right. This is a devastating tape. This is why prosecutors love tapes so much. This is why tapes are gold to prosecutors.
I used to have cases where the first thing a good defense lawyer would ask me is, "Do you have tapes?" And if you do, that changes everything, because we can now see the difference between this black and white transcript, where the words are fairly incriminating. And now, it comes to life, though.
You hear the tone. You hear who's in the room. You hear that he means it. You hear that he's actually shuffling papers. And this, to me, is the most important piece of evidence that we know of yet in this case.
COLLINS: What did you make of, when you heard that?
KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, FORMER CHIEF ASSISTANT MANHATTAN D.A.: Yes. You can tell that everyone in the room knows what they're looking at.
They were -- the people, who were listening to him talk were clearly impressed with and stunned by what he was showing them. They said -- there was a voice in there that said, "It's secret." He said, "I could have declassified it."
It's very clear that they were all looking at something together that was not, for example, a magazine clipping, or a newspaper clipping, that they were all impressed with whatever this document was, and they could all tell what it was that was in there.
[21:05:00)
So, I think this really is a significant piece of evidence. And I also think that because it was highlighted, in Jack Smith's indictment, that it's possible that they have a witness, in addition to the tape recording, who has described what the document look like.
And don't forget, classified documents have markings on them that are clearly -- that clearly indicate that they are some sort of classification. So, I wouldn't be surprised if that is also up Jack Smith's sleeve.
COLLINS: But do you mean you think they may have spoken to someone, who was in the room --
FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes.
COLLINS: -- who could have talked about what they saw?
FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Absolutely.
COLLINS: Because we do know they spoke to Chairman Mark Milley, who Trump claims, it was his document. That's what they were talking about that this -- that's the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. But we've since heard that document actually that they're referencing predated Milley.
But it's so interesting what you said that it's clear what he's talking about. Because even as recently as a few days ago, he is trying to say maybe he wasn't talking about a document, maybe he didn't have a document per se.
This is what he told Fox News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There was no document. That was a massive amount of papers and everything else, talking about Iran and other things. And it may have been held up or may not. But that was not a document. I didn't have a document per se. There was nothing to declassify. These were newspaper stories, magazine stories, and articles.
COLLINS: When it comes to your documents, did you ever show those classified documents to anyone?
TRUMP: Not really. I would have the right to. By the way, they were declassified after --
COLLINS: What do you mean, "Not really?"
TRUMP: Not that I can think of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HONIG: Wow.
COLLINS: I mean, this tape disproves essentially everything he's been saying, does it not?
HONIG: It does. I mean, I think if you're prosecuting this case, you do a split-screen of the things he said to you, in the Town Hall, and the other things he said publicly, and then of the actual transcript, of what he's saying, at the time.
And I think one of the big questions is, is there actually a document there? It sure sounds like. And I mean that both in the sense of what he's saying, you can hear papers being rustled. And he said something like "Secret," and "Confidential." It sounds as if he's --
COLLINS: Yes.
HONIG: -- reading it off the paper. And they would be marked. Those are --
COLLINS: Highly confidential.
HONIG: Exactly. That's what we mean by classified markings.
And the other thing that's so important about this moment is this is the moment that we have that prosecutors have, of Donald Trump, doing something, with the documents. It's not just storing them and move them around Mar-a-Lago, which could be a crime in itself, but actually using them to try to influence somebody. So, it's a key piece, for the prosecutors.
COLLINS: So, we've talked about the prosecutors. If you're Trump's attorneys, and we should note, he's still trying to hire a new attorney for this case, specifically, how did they handle this?
Because I mean, he's on here, he's on this tape, saying it's "Highly confidential," "Secret. This is secret information. Look at this." "Look at this" is what he's telling the people in the room. And then when he says, "As President, I could have declassified it," the Staffer responds, "Now we have a problem."
If you're a Trump defense attorney, what are you thinking, when you hear this?
FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Well, don't forget. Having a -- being classified or not, is not an element of the crime, right? So, they specifically didn't charge him with it has to be, classified document. They charged him with willfully possessing national defense information.
And so, as a defense attorney, we're going to say, "Do you have the document? How do we know that this is national defense information? How do we know that this wasn't some other paper that he was holding up that had to do with something else? So, how are you going to prove that that was actually national defense information?"
And so, it'll be interesting. I mean, he wasn't charged with that specific document.
COLLINS: Yes.
FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: But that's part of what goes to what his intent is. And so, I think they are going to potentially argue that. So, I think he's got to -- they have a very tough road to hoe.
COLLINS: Yes.
FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: With Trump.
COLLINS: And we haven't heard anything from his attorneys, I should note. But we did hear from one of his aides, who said, the audiotape provides context, proving once again that the President did nothing wrong at all. They say he's speaking rhetorically, and quite humorously, about a very -- talking about Anthony Weiner.
And then he says, sent -- they just added this, additional "From Trump himself" is what they just texted me. "As we've been saying, from the moment Trump rode down the golden escalator, the President did nothing wrong."
HONIG: Yes. I'm not quite sure how they got that interpretation from the tape. I mean, that moment is perhaps rhetorical, where he's talking about Anthony Weiner. But the rest sounds deadly serious to me.
COLLINS: Elie, Karen, thank you both, for helping us break down that tape.
And joining us now is Mark Esper, who served as Secretary of Defense, in the Trump administration.
Secretary Esper, thank you for joining us, tonight.
We wanted you to come on to talk about Russia, and the monumental events that are happening there. And we will get to that in a moment.
But given this breaking news, and this stunning audio, I wonder what it's like for you to hear the audio of your former boss, the former Commander-in-Chief, talking about what we are told, is sensitive Military documents, in this manner.
MARK ESPER, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER TRUMP: Yes, it really is stunning, Kaitlan, to hear it, right?
It sounds familiar, in some ways. And I talk a lot, about these instances, in my memoir, where I categorize how, every few months or so, we would come back to this issue about Iran, and what to do.
And I can say, Mark Milley worked for me for nearly 18 months, which was most of Trump's tenure, that we were together, and he never advocated, for attacking Iran. If anything, Chairman Milley and I were the reluctant warriors, in the cabinet, urging caution, urging restraint. So, that kind of is what strikes me first.
[21:10:00)
But secondly, it's the nature of sharing those information, those documents, whatever they are, with people. It's clearly unauthorized, illegal and dangerous. And that's what concerns me as well that such things like that were kept loosely, around Mar-a-Lago.
COLLINS: And he told Fox, as we played that clip earlier, he said there was no document, but referenced newspaper stories, magazine clippings. But it sure doesn't sound like he's talking about just a magazine article there.
Is it clear to you? Does it sound like to you that he is holding unclassified document?
ESPER: Well, it sounds like he's holding something, and showing something. I don't know what it was.
I think in earlier it was reported, some time ago, that it was a four- page document, which would not have been what DOD typically prepared. What we usually prepared was a one-pager that included targeting options, and escalatory measures, things like that. And again, I outline it, in my memoir, fairly clearly. But that would be unusual.
But something like that would be a document that would generate that "Wow" effect, if you were, by people, who are unfamiliar with these types of things, or classified material.
COLLINS: When you were Defense Secretary? And you talk about the experience that you two had. And obviously, you worked with him a lot. Did you ever have concerns about how he handled classified information? Were you ever worried to leave anything with him? Or have to tell him, "Don't share this with other people that aren't authorized to receive this information?"
ESPER: (inaudible) I bring a limited number -- hello?
COLLINS: Secretary Esper, yes. Go ahead. We can hear. I think we had a little bit of issue with the audio. But I think we can hear you now.
ESPER: Yes.
COLLINS: We were asking, did you ever have any concerns about his handling of classified information, when you were serving as Defense Secretary?
ESPER: Sure. We were generally concerned about the handling of classified material within the White House writ large. And so, we would only bring a few copies of whatever options, we would present to the President, because we were concerned about those things.
Having classified documents like that, again, getting around, the two top concerns to us, were always, risk to mission, right? What would affect if the material was compromised? And then what we would say is risk to force, what would it mean to the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines that may have to be called upon to do that mission.
So, those are two concerns that were forefront in our minds. And so, we always try to control that information very closely.
COLLINS: When you say you were always concerned writ large, about and only taking (ph) a few documents, what do you mean?
ESPER: Well, you would sit in a National Security Council meeting, if you will. You'd only expect a few people. And it always seemed like twice that many showed up. And everybody wanted a piece of paper. And frankly, not everybody had a need to know.
The only key people that needed to know, or needed to see this were typically the President, of course, the Vice President, the Chief of Staff, the National Security Adviser, the Secretary of State. Everybody else didn't need to have access to that information.
But too often, you'd have a lot of people, in those meetings, and again, documents, information being passed around.
COLLINS: I know you've talked about your concerns about him holding Office again, and you've said you wouldn't work for him again.
Secretary Esper, when you see the polls, and that he is by far and large, the Republican front-runner, and could easily have the nation's secrets, in his possession, once again, how much does that worry you?
ESPER: Well, look, I'm very concerned. And I've said that I don't believe he is fit for Office.
And what I've argued to my fellow Republicans, and I say this as a Reagan Republican, is that that, look, President Trump had a number of policy accomplishments. You can't take that away from his administration. But my argument is, we have a good field of candidates, right now, most of whom can advance the same core GOP principles, the same policy objectives, and do so, in a way that expands the Republican Party, and wins the elections, which is something that Donald Trump has been unable to do.
So, I'm encouraged by the field that is out there. And I hope that that soon they will send in the polls, and we'll see Donald Trump fade away.
COLLINS: And of course, whoever would be taking that nomination and could potentially be president would have a slate of global issues, to deal with, including what we have been seeing happen, over the last few days, the fallout from this rebellion that happened in Russia.
You saw President Putin coming out today. He made those very brief remarks after we hadn't seen him in public, since Saturday morning. He often tries to project this strongman look and optics.
Did you sense that today? Or did he look weak to you, today? What was your takeaway?
ESPER: He looked a little unsteady, to me, today. And I think the message he had was, was that he was walking a tightrope.
On one hand, he was calling the Wagner Group that they were rebels, traitors, in some ways. But on the other hand, telling them that they're forgiven, and they can go back, and either join the army, or go back to their homes, or go to Belarus. At the same time, he was promising accountability, but still Prigozhin is left to his own devices, in Belarus, as well.
[21:15:00)
So, it's very unclear what's going on. This is shaking him, shaking the country. And it's going to be very interesting, to see what happens, in the coming days and weeks. Particularly, he's now fighting a multi-front war, one in Ukraine, and one at home, and then of course he has to deal with the West as well.
COLLINS: Yes. And we'll see what happens there, of course, and questions just about the fact that they do have nuclear capabilities and the instability that we're seeing play out in Russia.
Former Defense Secretary, Mark Esper, thank you for your time, and your expertise on that, but also your perspective, on the Trump stuff as well. Thank you very much.
ESPER: Thanks, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Up next, we'll have more, on this breaking news, as CNN has now obtained the audio of Donald Trump's 2021 conversation, about classified documents. We'll get perspective, from Democratic congresswoman, and former CIA analyst, Elissa Slotkin.
Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: More now, on our breaking news, as CNN has exclusively obtained the audio recording, of Donald Trump, discussing secret documents that he himself acknowledges he did not declassify, as he's talking about this with people, who did not have security clearances.
When you listen to this, once again, remember, this was from July 2021, six months after Donald Trump left Office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I was just thinking, because we were talking about it. And you know, he said, "He wanted to attack Iran, and what..."
These are the papers.
STAFFER: You did.
TRUMP: This was done by the Military and given to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[21:20:00)
COLLINS: Joining us now is Democratic congresswoman, Elissa Slotkin, of Michigan, who is on the Armed Services Committee, and, very timely here, a former Middle East analyst, for the CIA.
Congresswoman, thank you so much for joining us.
I want to talk to you about Russia as well.
But again, this breaking news here, of this audio recording, of the former President, when you hear him, on the tape, to actually hear what he's saying, what are your -- what's your reaction to that?
REP. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): My reaction is, it's likely a document that was provided, to the White House, under extremely classified information, using classified information that was meant to, explain to the President, what would happen in a contingency, should we want to or need to go to war with Iran.
And I think what is important to remember, is that when we do this kind of planning, there are capabilities, and there are intentions, right? Well, the Military looks at what we're capable of, what we could do, in a contingency. But intentions come from the White House, what do we want to do with that information?
And I think, I'm with everyone else, listening to this clip, it sounds like he's trying to say, "Well, the Military wanted to go to war with Iran," when my guess is that's a document that was requested, by the White House, provided with full of classified information, to the White House, to have a conversation.
So, that's, to me, it's like if any normal person was caught with that information, in their hands, as a former CIA analyst, I mean, you'd be locked up immediately. So, it's pretty troubling.
COLLINS: Yes. I mean, on that note, I was reading about this former FBI analyst, the other day, who was sentenced to four years in prison, because she kept classified documents, in her home, in Kansas City.
Obviously, you used to work at CIA. What you just said there, what would happen, to someone like you, if you did what Trump is accused of doing of right here?
SLOTKIN: Well, I think, I mean, anyone who's trained to handle classified information understands that you cannot take it into an unclassified environment, your house, a bus, your car, anything. So, even just removing it from a classified space is a problem, but then holding it at home? I mean, it's violation of the law.
And so, someone, who would be accused of that kind of thing would be, arrested immediately, and there'd be an investigation. And the investigation would look at potential treason, you know? I mean, I think it's treated very, very seriously.
And so, this idea that something as sensitive as potential war planning or contingency operations capabilities, against an adversary, it's like, way beyond the average amount of classified. And I think that any person, other than a former President, this would be a very different conversation, right now.
COLLINS: How much risk does it pose? Because, when you hear the audio, there's a lot of laughter. Trump is telling someone to bring Cokes into the room.
But given the gravity of what these documents, we're told what they are, how much of a threat is that to national security, given he is waving it around, not in front of a briefer, or his Defense Secretary? It's in front of some random autobiographers that don't have security clearances.
SLOTKIN: Yes. I mean, I think, first of all, the potential spread of that information, right? Of course, if they got it from the President, probably each of those people has told 20 people about what they saw. And what it speaks to is the risk it puts on how we got that information, right?
If there's classified information in there, it either speaks to, you know, we've collected some really sensitive information about Iran, that you don't want getting out, because the person or the way that you collected that information, the sources and methods, you don't want to burn those people, or those things.
But it also speaks to our capabilities, right? I don't want our adversaries, knowing what we can and cannot do, knowing what we're planning. That is, to me, the real problem here. It's about giving away American secrets, not just about giving away sensitive information about Iran.
So, it's a problem, both directions. The casualness of it, again, anyone who was raised in an environment that handles classified information, like it just sort of gives you chills, how casual they're being about it, and just reflecting that they don't understand what they have in their hands.
COLLINS: I want to turn to what's happening, in Russia, because there have been major developments there, today.
We heard, from President Putin, right now, no one that I've spoken with has confirmed where Prigozhin, Yevgeny Prigozhin is, of course, the leader of Wagner.
Senator Mark Warner suggested earlier that he may be in Minsk, already.
But do you believe he is safe from the threat of kidnapping, maybe an assassination, given clearly how angry Putin was, today, and how openly he's expressed that anger at him directly?
SLOTKIN: I mean, look, I think even a casual observer knows that if you've pissed off Vladimir Putin, you are not safe.
[21:25:00)
And like, I was telling people, I'm assuming he's having someone testing his food. I'm assuming he's being -- Prigozhin is being very careful, because Putin has tried to take out his enemies in London. So, I don't think this man at all feels safe, which is probably why we haven't seen much of him.
And I think that if you're Putin, every TV station in the world is talking about how weak he looks, and he's going to feel the need to respond, either within his own system, or with Prigozhin. So, I mean, the guy has got to be worried about his safety.
COLLINS: Do you believe he could be losing his grip on power?
SLOTKIN: I don't -- I think that might be overstated.
I think this is the biggest single indicator we have that Putin made a strategic error, by trying to invade Ukraine. And this is not what happens when an army is doing well, and is functioning, and having success on the battlefield. It doesn't devolve into violence like this, when you're doing well. So, I think it's a big ding in his armor.
But I think that's a long way from saying that he's on shaky ground. I just I think this is a -- it was breathtaking, what's gone on in the last few days. And I think it just shows we don't totally understand what's happening in the inner workings, of the State, over there, right now.
COLLINS: Congresswoman Elissa Slotkin, thank you for your time, and your expertise, on all things, not just Russia, but also classified documents, tonight.
SLOTKIN: Thanks. COLLINS: And stay with us. If you're just tuning in, CNN has now obtained the tape, of Donald Trump, that is at the center of Special Counsel Jack Smith's investigation, and could feature prominently, at a trial. We're going to play it for you, in full, next.
[21:30:00)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Back to tonight's breaking story.
CNN has obtained exclusive audio, of former President Trump, in the summer of 2021, six months after he left Office, discussing, holding secret documents that he himself acknowledges, he did not declassify.
CNN's Paula Reid is in Washington.
And Katelyn Polantz is in Miami, where I should note Trump's body man and now co-defendant, Walt Nauta, will be arraigned, tomorrow, for his alleged role, in the Mar-a-Lago documents case that we are discussing here.
But Paula, we'll start with this video, because it was you, Katelyn, and I, who broke this story, late last month that this is what Jack Smith had, in his possession, this audiotape.
But now, to hear this, and the idea of how critical this evidence could be, at a trial, where jurors could hear potentially, Trump's tone, and the casual nature of the way he's talking about this? How much does that change things?
PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It's fascinating, because this will likely be a key piece, if not the key piece of evidence, at an eventual trial, down in Florida, where the jury will have the opportunity, to hear, just how casually, the former President, is discussing, what he acknowledges is secret information.
He says, "Look, this is classified." He acknowledges that now that he's out of the White House, he does not have the power to declassify it. And people in the room are laughing. A staffer appears to be egging him on.
But look, let's take a listen to Trump, in his own words, explaining why he would do this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: These are bad sick people, but --
STAFFER: That was your coup, you know, against you. That--
TRUMP: Well, it started right at the beginning--
STAFFER: Like when Milley is talking about, "Oh, you were going to try to do a coup." No, they were trying to do that before you even were sworn in. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's right.
STAFFER: Trying to overthrow your election.
TRUMP: Well, with Milley-uh, let me see that, I'll show you an example. He said that I wanted to attack Iran. (PAPERS SHUFFLING)
Isn't it amazing? I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look. (PAPERS SHUFFLING) This was him. They presented me this -- this is off the record -- but they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.
WRITER: Wow.
TRUMP: We looked at some. This was him. This wasn't done by me, this was him. All sorts of stuff-pages long, look.
STAFFER: Mm.
TRUMP: Wait a minute, let's see here. (PAPERS SHUFFLING)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Oh my gosh.
STAFFER: (LAUGHTER) yes.
TRUMP: I just found, isn't that amazing? This totally wins my case, you know.
STAFFER: Mm-hm.
TRUMP: Except it is like, highly confidential.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Secret. This is secret information. Look, look at this. You attack, and...
STAFFER: Hillary would print that out all the time, you know.
TRUMP: She'd send it...
STAFFER: Her private emails.
TRUMP: No, she'd send it to Anthony Weiner.
MULTIPLE: (LAUGHTER) yes.
TRUMP: The pervert.
STAFFER: Please print.
TRUMP: By the way. Isn't that incredible?
STAFFER: Yes.
TRUMP: I was just thinking, because we were talking about it. And you know, he said, "He wanted to attack Iran, and what..."
These are the papers.
STAFFER: You did.
TRUMP: This was done by the Military and given to me. Uh, I think we can probably, right?
STAFFER: I don't know, we'll, we'll have to see. Yes, we'll have to try to --
TRUMP: Declassify it.
STAFFER: -- figure out a -- yes.
TRUMP: See as president, I could have declassified it.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Now I can't, you know, but this is still a secret.
STAFFER: Yes. (LAUGHTER) Now we have a problem.
TRUMP: Isn't that interesting?
STAFFER: Yes.
TRUMP: It's so cool. I mean, it' so, look, her and I, and you probably almost didn't believe me, but now you believe me.
WRITER: No, I believed you.
TRUMP: It's incredible, right?
WRITER: No, they never met a war they didn't want.
TRUMP: Hey, bring some, uh, bring some Cokes in please.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
REID: And I'll reiterate. The former President knew he was being recorded there. He was being recorded by his own staffers, and he got in the habit of doing whenever he was talking to journalists, people working on books, or two people in the room also working on an autobiography, for former White House Chief of Staff, Mark Meadows. There are multiple versions of this recording.
And I want to note that recently, he has tried to suggest that he didn't actually have any papers per se. He told Fox News that he was not actually showing the document.
But one quote that is in this recording that is not included in the indictment is where he says, quote, "These are the papers." And Kaitlan, you can bet prosecutors are now going to hone in on that at any anticipated trial. COLLINS: Yes. And also, when he says, "Isn't that interesting? It's so cool," I mean, you just read the transcript, but to hear the casual nature of it?
And Katelyn, you're in Miami. Because all of this is going on, CNN has obtained this recording. Is Walt Nauta is going to be arraigned, tomorrow? He wasn't arraigned the day that Trump was in Florida, because he didn't have a Florida-based attorney.
[21:35:00]
What's tomorrow going to look like, obviously given the question of how this changes the case, but what does tomorrow look like for Walt Nauta?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, we're learning of this audio, we're hearing this audio, for the first time on the eve of when Donald Trump's co-defendant, Walt Nauta, is going to be appearing in court, not beside Donald Trump, or his lawyers, but with his own attorney, very likely an attorney, from the State of Florida, as well, to put in his initial pleading, in this case. We expect him to say he's not guilty, just as Donald Trump had done before.
But it is a crucial start of the case, for a defendant to come in, put in that initial pleading. But it's also a moment that marks not just the road to trial, but where Walt Nauta, this valet, of Donald Trump, is going to have to start making decisions, with his lawyers, on what's best for him, additionally. Does he want to go the whole way to trial, and what to do next, especially as he and his team are getting evidence in this case, and reviewing it.
COLLINS: Katelyn Polantz, Paula Reid, great reporting by both of you. And thank you for joining.
There was also a major breaking news, overseas, today, as President Putin appeared before his country, for the first time, since an armed rebellion, against his government, came to an abrupt end, on Saturday night.
Plus why Ukraine's president says today is a happy day, and his latest update on Russia's invasion.
[21:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Today, Russian president, Vladimir Putin, finally resurfaced, to address the rebellion that posed one of the biggest threats, yet, to his power, since he came to power. His message, clearly, one of anger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIA (through translator): An armed rebellion would have been suppressed, in any case. The organizers of the rebellion, despite the loss of adequacy, could not fail to understand this. They understood everything, including that they resorted to criminal acts, to divide and weaken the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Putin made clear that he considers the man you see here, Yevgeny Prigozhin, a criminal, even though the Wagner chief claimed, in an audio message, today, it was never his intent, to topple the Russian president. Just to protest a new law that would have impacted his fighters, his mercenary fighters.
CNN has this story covered all across the region, with Matthew Chance, in Moscow; Nick Paton Walsh, in Kyiv.
Matthew, I want to start with you, because this was a brief clip. Putin was visibly angry in it. And he declined to even mention Prigozhin's name, which is obviously something he's done with others, in the past, Alexei Navalny. What's the sense of what he was trying to achieve with this speech?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're right. He was a -- that was a very angry President Putin that appeared on national television.
And I think there's a sense in which he wanted to, again, vent that anger. He's been sort of locked away for the past three days, and nobody's seen him. And so, this was the first time that he's got onto the national stage, and the international stage.
And, again, expressed how furious he is that this took place that somebody so close to him, who was a sort of loyal ally, in many ways, and a very useful one, over the past couple of years, in the sense that Yevgeny Prigozhin has been, would turn against him, in this way.
He's also seen his authority diminished and damaged, because he's been challenged, in such a public way. And so, I think, Vladimir Putin, needed to get on national television, and try and take some of that authority back.
And he did that by saying, "Look, it ended in the way that it did with not much bloodshed, because I personally intervened," is what he said, to make sure that the bloodshed was kept to a minimum. And so, I think that was his attempt at sort of reclaiming some of his lost authority as well.
COLLINS: And is it clear whether or not he's going to make a change with his top Military officials? I mean, we saw Sergei Shoigu, sitting with him, in a meeting, just after he spoke. What's the sense of he's going to make a change with his top brass?
CHANCE: Well, he may well do, because Yevgeny Prigozhin seemed to have struck a chord, with many people, in his complaints about the way the campaign, the war in Ukraine has been conducted. And there are many Russians that agreed with Yevgeny Prigozhin's critique of the war, if not his methods, blaming the incompetence of these military leaders. But if Putin does that, quickly, that'll be seen as another sign of weakness, but I wouldn't be surprised that if in the longer term, he doesn't take action to fill those positions.
COLLINS: Matthew Chance, thank you.
I should point out that the Russian leader purportedly remained at the Kremlin, we are told.
Ukrainian president, Zelenskyy, was on the front lines of the war, visiting his troops, in the eastern region. Just hours ago, he declared that Ukrainian fighters have advanced in all front line directions. Of course, all of this is happening as Ukraine is conducting a counter-offensive.
Nick Paton Walsh, of course, one question here is how the Ukrainians plan to take advantage of this moment on the battlefield.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we don't know, and certainly President Zelenskyy possibly being rhetorical. But we are seeing, over the weekend, suggestion they're moving forward around Bakhmut. We've seen that in the past too.
A new wave of Ukrainian forces possibly passing over the far west of the front lines, near Kherson city, across the Antonivsky Bridge, according to some video we've seen as well, and suggestions of slight progress, in the south too.
Questions being asked though, exactly how the departure of Wagner forces, from parts of the front line, may have impacted Russia's force of strength, along those front line positions and two, of course, 3,000 Pro-Kremlin Chechen fighters were pulled away, from the front line, to defend Moscow. That seems to pass it being (ph) round might incur a hotly contested city, on the front line too. So, it's possible we may see weaknesses along there.
[21:45:00]
But the broader question, I think, for Kyiv is do you intervene now, do you think throw your weight into weak positions, or continue to allow the chaos, to unfurl, in Moscow, and then perhaps, at a later stage, exploit some of those weaknesses, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Given the role that the Wagner forces have played in Russia's invasion of Ukraine, if they're not there, if they don't absorb themselves, into the Russian Military, what does the battlefield look like without them?
PATON WALSH: Yes, it's precarious, isn't it? Because the real reason Wagner had to get involved, in the fight for Bakhmut, is because the regular Russian forces were not having great success.
It's fair to say Wagner fighters are seasoned, well-equipped, pretty effective. That's frankly Western intelligence's assessment of their behavior. They are brutal too. So, at this stage, yes, there will be, I think their absence felt, in Russia's ranks. It's also fair to say they had been being pulled back from some front line positions, particularly around Bakhmut, in the past weeks.
But the broader weakness here, I think, for Russia, is this consistent series of messages we keep hearing, from Yevgeny Prigozhin, about how badly the war is being fought, by Russia's top brass, and essentially, by extension, Putin himself.
That 11-minute message today contained much of else to talk about, but the central thrust was how Prigozhin would have done so much better, since the initial invasion, had Wagner been allowed to run operations here.
So, that will continue to reverberate, amongst Russian soldiers, who know exactly how badly their positions are, in the trenches around, and the absence too, of some of Russia's most effective fighters, were probably being felt on the front lines as well.
Are they going to get absorbed into the Russian Military proper? We don't know. Yevgeny Prigozhin suggested only 1 percent or 2 percent had taken up the initial offer. Hence the reason for this armed rebellion, we've seen.
He was clear to point out it was a protest, against the Russian Ministry of Defense. But really, you can't imagine someone launching a force of that scale towards Moscow in that kind of way, without thinking at some point, the Kremlin head is going to think they might be targeted towards him too.
So, constant changes here, but the fact Prigozhin is still, still able to put these messages out, on Telegram, well, that's going to have a significant impact on the Russian war efforts, and that would work in Ukraine's favor, Kaitlan.
COLLINS: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you.
We're going back to our other big story, tonight, in addition to what's happening in Russia and the developments there.
Here, at home, we have a CNN exclusive. CNN has obtained the audio that is central to the Special Counsel's investigation. It is the former President, talking on tape that he knew was being recorded, about classified documents.
We have political analysis, including from someone, who worked for Trump, coming up next.
[21:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: More now on our breaking story, tonight.
CNN has obtained exclusive audio, of the 2021 meeting, where former President Trump talks about classified documents, and acknowledges that they are not declassified.
Joining me now, Marc Lotter, who was the Special Assistant to Trump, and the Director of Strategic Communication, for his 2020 reelection campaign.
Also with us is former National Coalitions Director, for the Biden- Harris 2020 campaign, Ashley Allison.
Marc, I mean, you worked for Trump. To hear that audio, of him, talking about this so casually, I mean, what do you make of it?
MARC LOTTER, FORMER STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP 2020: Well, I mean, obviously, we'd seen the transcript. So it's just putting, the audio and the voice to the transcript.
I'm not sure, from a political standpoint, it's going to change much. It might from a legal. I'm not a lawyer. And I'll let the lawyers hash that one out. But from a political standpoint, I don't see this changing much at all.
COLLINS: You don't think it makes it more damaging to actually hear him, so kind of carelessly talking about information that he has tried to claim wasn't a document per se?
LOTTER: No, I think, at the end of the day, I mean, I think it's going to be basically be a rerun of 2016, in one respect, because you're going to have all of these allegations, these charges, against Biden. You're going to have all of these charges and allegations against Trump. American people are going to probably wash their hands of both of them, and then vote on the policies, the issues. And that's the problem for Joe Biden.
COLLINS: How do you think Republicans see this?
Because, we've heard how they've been talking. I mean, maybe they're lucky that they're on recess, right now, and they're not actually in Washington, because they have kind of been downplaying the transcript itself. But now, when you can actually hear him saying it, in his own words, rustling papers around?
ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER NATIONAL COALITIONS DIRECTOR, BIDEN-HARRIS 2020, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE STAFF MEMBER: Well, unfortunately, I think, there is a population, in the Republican Party that's not going to turn its back, on Donald Trump.
And because of that, I think Republicans, in Washington, D.C., will still play and hedge their bets on this. They don't want to get too ahead, because they don't want the backlash, from the Republican electorate, in a primary, to turn against them.
But I do think, contrary to what you were saying, I do think it's really important to hear him on tape. When we got the transcripts, people said, "Well, we need to put it in more context." Well, now we have context.
We hear his voice. It illuminates a little bit more, brings to life a little bit more, about exactly how much how much recklessness, and carelessness, he was, using our national security documents. And I think it's really important, not just in a political sense, but also, for what happens in the courtroom, for the Special Counsel, to present their case.
COLLINS: And hearing it on tape makes it feel different. Because, I mean, this is -- he has a history, with being on tape, with these things. I mean, not just this. We have the audio recording with Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia Secretary of State. Of course, Access Hollywood, you were working on the campaign at that time.
I mean, the question of, I think some people look at this, and even Bill Barr has acknowledged, as a former Attorney General, that a lot of this, almost all of this is self-inflicted.
LOTTER: Well, I don't disagree with that. But I think when a lot of people are looking at this, whether there's an audiotape or not, they're going to say, "Well, Biden had documents in the garage, next to the Corvette, and Hunter running around making international business deals, had access to all of it."
Mike Pence had documents.
COLLINS: Well we don't know that.
LOTTER: And --
COLLINS: But so -- they're different allegations. I think you can talk about carelessness with documents. But they're different allegations, because Trump's is not just that he had them. It's that he hid them and tried to not give them back.
LOTTER: Well, I mean, Joe Biden had them for 40 years, according to some of the reporting.
COLLINS: But never a subpoena talking (ph) to him.
LOTTER: But also, again, that's an argument for a court of law.
[21:55:00]
In the court of public opinion, they're going to say "Biden had them. Pence has them. Trump has them. And I'm sick about hearing about all of it. What are you going to do about securing the border? What are you going to do about lowering gas prices," or all of the other things that matter, which I think is what this election is going to come down to.
COLLINS: Well, and Biden wasn't obviously indicted, I should note.
You worked for the campaign. How would -- how do they handle this, for Republicans, who do try to draw a comparison, between the two of them, even though they're different cases?
ALLISON: Well, I think Joe Biden should stay out of this in terms of the Trump indictment. This is being handled by the Justice Department. And he's been very clear he doesn't weigh in to Justice Department matters. And I think that's important, for him, as the President of the United States. So, while it may be comfortable, politically, to weigh in, professionally, I think, he's doing the right thing and staying out of it.
COLLINS: Thank you both --
LOTTER: Thank you.
COLLINS: -- for coming on to talk about this tonight.
We have so much more to unpack, as we're listening to this audio. CNN's coverage continues, in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:00]
COLLINS: And thanks so much for joining us, on the breaking Donald Trump news, tonight, of CNN's exclusive reporting, of his audiotape.
"CNN TONIGHT" starts right now.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST, CNN TONIGHT: Kaitlan, thank you. And don't go too far. We'll see you, in just a couple of moments.
