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CNN Live Event/Special
Trump Plans To Surrender Thursday In Georgia, Bond At $200,000; Special Counsel Smith Pushes Back Against Skewed Trump Arguments For A 2026 Trial; Trump's Rivals To Face Off Without Him At First GOP Debate; GOP Presidential Candidates To Debate On Stage Without Trump; Woman Shot Over Pride Flag Argument; Outcry For Spanish Soccer President Kissing Player During World Cup Celebrations. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired August 21, 2023 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Car manufacturers would be allowed to decide how loud and how frequent those sounds are. The public of course can chime in on that proposed rule, for the next 60 days.
Thank you so much for joining me tonight. CNN Primetime with Abby Phillip starts right now.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Thank you so much, Kaitlan. Have a good night.
COLLINS: You too.
PHILLIP: And good evening, everyone, I'm Abby Phillip. Welcome to CNN primetime.
It is impossible to overstate how historic this moment is. The 45th president of the United States now plans to turn himself in at the Fulton County Jail this Thursday.
Donald Trump also agreed to a $200,000 bond today, including $80,000 on count one violation of Georgia's RICO act and $10,000 each on the counts of criminal solicitation, conspiracy filing, false documents and false statements.
His attorneys signing off on an agreement that includes this warning to their client, quote, the defendant shall perform no act to intimidate any person known to him or her to be a co-defendant or witness in this case or to otherwise obstruct the administration of justice.
The agreement goes on to warn that it includes social media. And it comes as a source of telling CNN that employees with the Fulton County Sheriff's Office are now being threatened over the role that they'll play with the former president's surrender this week. We're going to go deep into all of that tonight.
Plus, a Southern California clothing store owner hangs a rainbow pride flag outside of her business and is shot to death. We have the latest developments in that investigation.
And the angry reaction to Spain's soccer chief giving an unwanted kiss on the lips to a woman's World Cup soccer star after the team's final victory over England yesterday. Is it a setback for women's sports?
But, first, I do want to begin now with the breaking news on the former president's surrender on Thursday. Here with me in the studio is Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez, CNN Special Correspondent Jamie Gangel and CNN Legal Analyst Elliot Williams.
Evan, I want to start with you. So, the day is going to be Thursday. Do we know anything more about what that is going to look like, what the plan is for him?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: It's not going to look like any of the others. And that's kind of a strange thing to have to say, right? The former president, this is his fourth time being arrested and processed as part of an indictment, part of answering charges. In this case, the sheriff's office in Atlanta says that they're going to treat him like any other defendant.
He's gotten a lot of deference when he turned himself in in New York and certainly in the federal system. They didn't even take a mug shot. In this case, they are going to take mug shots, they're going to fingerprint him, they're going to do all of the things they normally do.
PHILLIP: And that's a choice. They don't necessarily have to do it.
PEREZ: Right. They've chosen to do it like they've done others. And, importantly, he's going to be turning himself in at the jail, which is the Fulton County Jail is sort of a very dark place. It's a place that's getting a lot of scrutiny even from the Justice Department for the conditions under which prisoners are being held there. So, it is not a nice place.
And the former president is going to be going in there. He's going to go through a process, obviously surrounded by Secret Service, a lot of protection for him, but it is not going to be like the other ones.
And in this case, the Georgia law allows for the release of that mug shot. It's something that he's so far not had to have happen. Obviously, his fundraising people, I think, believe that this could be something that he could use to his own advantage to try to raise money off of. We'll see whether that's really how it works.
PHILLIP: You said that like Trump would say it, it's not a nice place. But we are also getting details about this bond agreement the Fulton County had with the Trump attorneys. It's interesting to me that there was almost like a negotiation over this. But what do we know about how that process went down?
PEREZ: Right. Well, Fani Willis, the district attorney there, wanted them to come into her office and to hash this out today, and that's what they did. You saw the lawyers come into the government center down in Atlanta and they worked out the details.
And part of it in this $200,000 bond is -- again, this is the first time that the former president is actually having to do a cash bond. The other ones were personal recognizance and personal surety bonds. This is actually he's going to have to put up money under the Georgia system.
And under the terms of this, it's a lot more extensive than what we've seen in his previous cases, where he's been warned by judges. You can't threaten witnesses. You can only talk to witnesses through your own lawyers. In this case, as you pointed out in the document itself, it warns him about intimidating witnesses and also points out that he cannot threaten or intimidate people using social media, which is something he was doing on the day of his indictment.
He warned Geoff Duncan against showing up and testifying against him, which, of course, he did on that very day.
PHILLIP: They know the kind of defendant they're dealing with.
Elliot, do you think that that warning, as crystal clear as it's laid out, will have any impact on Trump's behavior right now?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think it might. The problem is that you run into gray areas anytime you're talking about speech, and what could be -- what some may regard as a threat might just be regard as aggressive language, right?
And I think a judge is going to have to -- they'll be back in court on this at some point because I have a hard time seeing a scenario in which the former president gives up his Twitter or Truth account and doesn't tweet things about witnesses or so on.
Now, once that happens, the judge is going to have to sort out, now is that really a threat, did it step up to the line, did it step over the line to the point that we're going to have to revoke his bond and put him in jail? Now, that could certainly happen. It certainly hasn't yet. We'll just have to wait and see.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Can I just say, it's going to happen. I think that's a fair prediction. He's not capable of restraining himself, and he also knows the court doesn't want to throw him in jail. This is -- he understands he can push the envelope like nobody else.
PHILLIP: But do you think, Jamie, I mean, the theatrics of doing it right after the presidential debate, I mean, what are his advisers telling him about -- I mean, there's always with Trump the short-term and the long-term, I can see clearly the short term gain, but the long-term impact of that kind of imagery being the next thing that voters see?
GANGEL: So, for Trump, as we've seen, it always seems that he wants to take up all the oxygen in the room, and he will do that on Thursday by going to Georgia, absolutely maximum effect.
That said -- and let's just say this. We've all been talking for a couple of weeks now about whether or not he would participate in the debates, and everyone, including David Axelrod, political consultants, have said, you know, it's actually not such a bad idea for him not to participate when he is this far ahead in the polls.
That said, we're told that there are some Trump advisers who really think that he should be participating for two reasons. One, heaven forbid, someone in that group rises to the top and he's not there. We know how effective he can be.
The second is, if he becomes the nominee, he needs to argue that Joe Biden should debate him. If he doesn't show up for the debates, that undercuts that argument.
PHILLIP: Elliot, I want to get your take on this other thing. I mean, the special counsel in a new filing tonight is actually pushing back on Trump's request for a 2026 hearing date in that other election interference case. They're accusing Trump's lawyers of exaggerating the time it will take to do this document review. Are they right?
WILLIAMS: They're absolutely right. But that's also incredibly common when parties negotiate over when a trial or anything's going to happen. One party, typically the defendant will say, no, we need plenty of time. This is the volumes of stacks and boxes we need to be able to go through. And the prosecution will set -- will push back on that.
The judge will find a date somewhere in the middle there. It's going to take time to get to trial. This is not going to take until 2026 to go to trial. That's some funny business.
PHILLIP: What do you think, Evan, the DOJ is looking for here in terms of a timeline?
PEREZ: Look, I think they've set an aggressive time of January, knowing that they're probably not going to get it. But I do think that from watching that judge, watching Judge Chutkan on the stand, it is clear she believes that this case needs to go to trial before the election. She believes that this is an important thing for the public and certainly for voters.
And so I think they believe that they're in a good place to try to make sure that they get this trial perhaps by early summer. And then it puts the onus on some of the other judges to try to maneuver around that. Because if she has a trial date, then some of the other procedural hearings in the other cases are going to have to maybe take second place.
PHILLIP: Go ahead.
WILLIAMS: No, I was just going to say, and it was quite deliberately written, the indictment in that case to be narrow and tight and the kind of thing that you could get to trial pretty quickly. It's not like the case in Florida that involves classified documents and a number of things that are just going to take a while to get.
GANGEL: Or the case in Georgia with 19.
PHILLIP: And, look, that's the perfect segue for what I was going to ask Jamie about, which is this week, this moment, we're going to see 19 defendants parading into a county jail. I mean, that is different in some really substantial ways, not just for Trump, but for the imagery that's going to be out there for the American public about what this case is all about.
GANGEL: Have you ever had 19?
WILLIAMS: I haven't had 19, but you know what, I've had big trials. And most of the time, a bunch of the guys plead out before you get there. So, you're not going to see all 19, a few of them --
PHILLIP: But to see the Giuliani's and the John -- these are the characters that have been in the public sphere for over two years now. They'll be walking into a jail sometime this year.
GANGEL: Right. It's not just as if Donald Trump is the only bold face name in the group.
But one thing we've seen, people are complaining about their legal bills.
PHILLIP: Oh, yes.
GANGEL: And so in addition to Mark Meadows, who we've sort of wondered what he's doing, is he cooperating in some way, I wonder when these co-defendants say, I need help with my legal bills, is that sending a message about be careful, Donald?
PEREZ: is going to be some separation at some point, it seems like, between the former president and some of his co-defendants. And it's going to come sooner than people realize.
PHILLIP: And that may very well be what Fani Willis needs to get this case to a trial with 19 defendants.
Evan, Elliot and Jamie, thank you all very much.
I want to now bring in retired secret service agent Ray Moore. He was the special agent in charge of the Atlanta Field Office. Ray, thanks for being here.
Can you walk us through what the surrender process is likely to look at as Trump moves from his arrival at the airport over to that now infamous county jail on Thursday?
RAY MOORE, RETIRED SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL AGENT: Well, first of all, thank you for having me. And if we want to talk about the arrival at the airport is going to be in a secure location. They're going to have a secure motorcade made up of Secret Service personnel, Atlanta P.D., Georgia State Patrol, and they're going to travel on a secure motorcade that has been plotted out over the last two weeks, the best route to take, the safest route to take to get him to the jail.
PHILLIP: And you've been in touch with both the agent in charge and the county sheriff who will be handling this. How crucial is that communication between the agents who are working on the protection of Trump and the local authorities who are trying to get this process moving forward?
MOORE: That communication between those two organizations is vital. The great thing here is both Pat Labat, who's the sheriff, and Steve Baisel, who's the Secret Service special agent in charge, they've known each other for the last couple of years. They belong to a group called Metropol. So, they know each other well. So, they were not strangers calling each other. They were colleagues calling each other to make this happen. So, they're on the same page about what should happen with the former president.
PHILLIP: Yes. And we were discussing the question of whether he will have a mug shot, fingerprinting, all of that. In terms of what happens inside the jail, what do you think is likely to come out of this process perhaps for the public to see?
MOORE: What I believe will come out will be a mug shot and he will be fingerprinted. That's what the established protocol for the Fulton County Sheriff Department is. They've talked about it. They've talked about what they're going to do, Steve Baisel and Pat Labat. And former President Trump is going to arrive at the jail, a secure location, go up a secure elevator, and come off on the floor, where he will be the only person walking down that hall with law enforcement.
PHILLIP: Potentially, there would be two Secret Service agents with him, the sec of the district, Steve Baisel, the agent in charge of his detail, and the sheriff's personnel will be there to process former President Trump.
PHILLIP: It's a small thing, perhaps, but Trump is likely to walk in wearing a suit and tie. Will he be wearing that in his mug shot?
MOORE: Yes, he will. They will not require him to change in any jail (INAUDIBLE) or anything like that. That's been negotiated by his attorneys. They're going to come in, they're going to allow him to be processed, and he'll leave. As I've read today, he's already established a bond, a $200,000 bond. So, he'll be able to come in, be processed, fingerprinted, photographed and turn around and leave.
PHILLIP: Yes. You point out that the Secret Service. Obviously, they're trained to protect the current and former president in virtually any scenario. This is a different scenario, although they've now done it about four times. If you're in the Secret Service, I mean, are you prepared really for something like this? And I wonder, do you think that the venue here matters, the state, the location within the state? How does that a role?
MOORE: It does play a role. But Secret Service trains every day to protect the president or the former president wherever he goes. They build the same type of security umbrella of bubble wherever they go, utilizing their counterparts in state, local and federal law enforcement.
So, it won't be a big departure from how they do their job. The biggest departure is, in this case, where they're doing their job.
PHILLIP: Ray Moore, thank you for all those invaluable insights. We appreciate it.
MOORE: You're welcome and thank you.
PHILLIP: And coming up next for us, imagine for a minute what it's like to run against Donald Trump.
You can't goad him to get on the debate stage and you can't take him on in that debate without turning off the voters that you need the most. And now he may even steal the spotlight by turning himself in in a criminal trial the day after the debate. So, how do you win? We'll discuss, next.
PHILLIP: Former President Trump is now set to surrender in Georgia on Thursday, the day after the first Republican primary debate, which he plans to skip. And tonight, sources tell CNN that Fox News, which is hosting that debate, has informed the Trump campaign that they will no longer provide credentials to some surrogates to attend the spin room.
But that may not be such a big problem because some of his rivals, these eight candidates, will be on the stage spinning for Trump in his absence.
Let's bring in CNN Senior Political Commentator and former Congressman Adam Kinzinger and CNN Political Commentator Bakari Sellers.
So, Adam, look, Trump is not going to be there, but a lot of the candidates have pledged to basically defend him. What does this mean for what is going to happen on that debate stage and really the trajectory that this race is headed in?
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's going to mean that we're going to be entertained at the fact that you're going to have a number of people that are going to sit there on the debate stage trying to attack other people up there on the debate stage who may be polling at 1 percent or 2 percent so that they can show the audience that they're tough without actually doing the tough thing and going after the frontrunner.
It's going to be crazy to watch.
But it also -- you'll see the differentiation between -- it will be a big question for where does Mike Pence go, for instance. You'll see somebody like Chris Christie who certainly is not going to ignore Donald Trump. And then you'll see somebody like Ron DeSantis, who is already kind of pretending like he's going to be the guy everybody is paying attention to.
I think what it means, though, in the long run is, look, every one of these folks think they can't speak out and they don't speak out. But it's they're not speaking out and it's they're defending Donald Trump after each of the indictments is the reason why he's gaining in popularity. Because the people that the Republican -based trusts are standing up in front of him and saying, not only did Donald Trump not do anything wrong, he's being attacked by the DOJ and he was the greatest president ever. So, why would you ever expect to pick up anybody else's votes?
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, Bakari, do you think that the fact that Trump is not on the debate stage, will they even defend him for that or will they try to do what Ron DeSantis has done in the last couple of days, which is to say, you know, Trump is more or less hiding from his competitors here?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I have to separate. I believe it's seven people on the debate stage, maybe. But you have to separate Asa Hutchinson and Chris Christie from the rest of them. I think Asa Hutchinson and Chris Christie are going to do what is necessary by defending things like, I don't know, the Constitution, by saying things like the truth and by speaking that truth to power.
Now, whether or not that's enough for somebody who is together, they're probably a 3 or 4 percent, regardless of the poll that you look at, I'm not sure that is going to catapult them. But the rest of them are going to do what they've been doing this entire campaign, which is try to thread a needle, not make Donald Trump mad. It's as if they're afraid of somebody.
But the fact is, if you can't stand up to Donald Trump, if you can't stand up to someone who abused the Constitution, if you can't stand up to someone who has 70-plus felonies in various indictments, then how are you going to stand up on the world stage, to leaders who have some type of animus towards the United States of America? How are you going to stand up for the American people? I think that's the argument to make against the rest of them.
I don't think this is going to be very interesting. I think Donald Trump is going to loom very large. And Donald Trump may not even being there win this debate.
PHILLIP: Well, you may be right about that last point, but it may very well be interesting to see whether the other candidates can even create some kind of moment for themselves in his absence.
Adam, on the other side, Trump is trying to create counterprogramming here with this Tucker Carlson interview that he's already pre-taped, I mean, many, many days now in advance. That's like a lifetime in a political world to do it that far ahead. Do you expect that to actually work, to steal -- truly to steal the oxygen from this debate as a form of just sort of distraction here? KINZINGER: No, no. So, that's not going to do it. So, Tucker Carlson, even though we all still know his name, every time he's put something out, like it's kind of gone over very quietly. Only we get a little chatter on Twitter.
But people don't pay attention to Tucker Carlson anymore. When he lost his position at Fox News, he lost his megaphone. He was -- yesterday, I did see, he was basically being a traitor to the United States, going out and talking about how great all these powerful dictators were. But we're not talking much about it because nobody cares about Tucker Carlson anymore.
So, I don't think this is going to be the thing that overshadows the debate or that gives Donald Trump some special attention. It will make him feel good because Tucker will continually kiss up to him and Donald Trump loves that.
But what will do that is the arrest on Thursday. That's going to be the thing that no matter what we talk about on Wednesday, all the oxygen is going to be sucked out and it's going to be talking about Donald Trump's arrest on Thursday.
Yet again, and his bail, yet again, and his felonies, yet again, and yet again we're going to watch a lot of these candidates for president not have the courage to tell the base the truth and then wonder why Donald Trump is still on the lead.
PHILLIP: Bakari, I want to play for you what Republican Senator Bill Cassidy said this Sunday on State of the Union. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): I think Joe Biden needs to be replaced, but I don't think Americans will vote for someone who's been convicted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Balari, do you think he's right about that?
SELLERS: I pray he is. But, I mean, that's kind of rich coming from somebody whose base is going to vote for Donald Trump to be their nominee and to be their standard bearer.
I mean, this race is going to be over, by all intents and purposes, on King Day, on January 15th, at the Iowa caucuses.
With that being said, it's very difficult for someone in the Republican Party, although I applaud him for speaking the truth. It's a very low bar, but I applaud him for doing that. It's very difficult for someone to say that all of a sudden Donald Trump is not going to garner the votes.
As a Democrat, I can tell you that you got to run afraid. You got to run scared. If you're not running scared, you're not running at all. You should even run scared when you're running unopposed. And Joe Biden has to take the threat of Donald Trump very seriously, and the threat of Donald Trump becoming the president of the United States again, even from a jail cell. All of those things are quite possible. To steal a word from Kevin Garnett, I guess in this country now, anything is possible.
PHILLIP: A stark warning from you to your party there, Bakari, noted. Adam Kinzinger, Bakari Sellers, thank you very much.
SELLERS: Thank you.
PHILLIP: And coming up next, I'm going to talk to two campaign veterans who've helped prepare candidates for debates. One even played a stand-in for Donald Trump back in 2016. I'll ask them who stands to win on Wednesday night and who stands to lose without the real Donald Trump on that stage.
PHILLIP: We're now just two days away from the first 2024 Republican presidential debate. The latest CNN Poll of Polls shows former President Donald Trump holding the top spot, yet again with 57 percent of the potential GOP primary electorate making him their first choice for the nominee.
And over the weekend Trump confirmed on his social media platform, Truth Social, that he has no plans to participate in Wednesday's debate, citing his lead in recent polling. And today Florida governor and top GOP candidate Ron DeSantis called out Trump saying that he, quote, "owes it to the people to debate." Listen.
(BEGIN VDIEO CLIP)
RON DESANTIS, GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he has a great opportunity to come out and do this. I think he owes it to people. I don't think our voters, even people that appreciate what he did, and I'm actually one that appreciated a lot of what he did too, I don't think they're going to look kindly on somebody that thinks they don't have to earn it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
And joining me now is former State Department official and senior advisor to Hillary Clinton, Philippe Reines, along with Republican strategist Kevin Madden. So, it's interesting, DeSantis always couches his criticism with praise in these interviews. But I will also say, I mean, look, Trump is probably maybe the most experienced debater in terms of presidential debates, who could be on that debate stage.
But to your mind, is there anything that he loses by not being out there, not flexing this muscle in a couple of years against some of the people that maybe when he decides later on in this process to join them on a debate stage, is there anything he can lose? KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think so. I mean, he
actually tactically, he has the lead in the race. He has the ability to drive all the attention towards him anytime he wants by just saying something or doing an interview. So, I think his main goal here is to deny his opponents any oxygen, right? So just try to block out the sun on their candidacies, while at the same time letting them fight amongst each other. And so, by not showing up it really does perfectly suit his strategy.
PHILLIP: Do you think he'll skip all of them as he sees them (sp?)?
MADDEN: I think he -- I think what will make him change that is if he does start to see somebody rise and he starts to see a trend line working in the direction of one of these candidates that he sees as a direct threat, then he's going to be like, well, let me show up and show these guys who's the real front runner in this race.
PHILLIP: Look, I mean, Philippe, debating is a muscle memory for candidates, even candidates like Trump, and he won't be doing it. And if he decides, if he becomes a nominee he's up against Joe Biden, he'll have to really work -- get up to -- get up to par there, but there will be all these other candidates on the debate stage. They might lose by not being able to take it to Trump and to show voters that they can.
PHILIPPE REINES, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: Yeah. Well, first, I, you know, we're 48 hours away. I'm not so sure he's not going to be there. I mean, he's not --
PHILLIP: You of all people know he has a lot of tricks up his sleeves.
REINES: Well, he's not beyond playing a stunt to be the center of attention --
REINES: -- to show up and so. Also, he doesn't prepare so it's not as if he needs to do something that he hasn't been doing along the way. I disagree with Kevin a little bit. I actually think he's making a mistake and he's going to regret it because to some extent what the others want to do and the Republican establishment at large is trying to show people what a party without Donald Trump looks like.
If I were him, I'm not sure that I would allow that visual. Now obviously, if it's a food fight on Wednesday night, then no one looks good. But you know what? Some of them might look better than others. And obviously, they all go in with different goals. I mean, the stakes, I don't think people realize how hard prep is. Kevin and I were talking before we came out. It is grueling, and no one enjoys it.
But it's part of the most important thing they do. And especially now, to your point about, you know, the cobwebs. Except for Ron DeSantis having debated last year in the context of his re-election, you've got Pence hasn't done it since 2020. I don't think Christie has done it in seven years. I don't think Haley has done it in eight years. I mean this is a very -- MADDEN: And most of them have never done it in a multi-candidate field the way this one is set up.
PHILLIP: Yes. It is very hard to navigate as someone who's moderated a debate with a lot of people on it, it is hard to manage that dynamic on the stage. Imagine showing up not prepping for to be the moderator. Right. I wish I would not do.
By the way. I mean, but Kevin, do you think, look, the goal for a lot of the candidates is to make a moment on that stage. There's -- it's hard to do it, but the whole thing just seems like it might just become very vanilla. Is it going to be hard for these candidates to really stand out in this crowd?
MADDEN: Well, I think it's hard if you don't have a strategy. I think that's one of the things that Phillipe and I probably agree on is that, you know, if you're sitting in the candidate rooms right now and you're preparing for this, you're telling your candidate like, hey, we're going to pick a fight with candidate X on immigration. We're going to pick a fight with candidate Y on foreign policy.
And we're going to have it out. And that's going to be the message that we're able to crystallize to the voters and it's going to be the message that we can ideally take as part of momentum. Because the interesting thing about debates like this is we're only going to get these 30 second sound waves, it's atomizing that message so that for the next two days, that's what everybody sees is that one moment where it sort of brings to life your candidacy for a lot of voters who for the first time are even -- they're being introduced to you.
REINES: And to that point, it's still a work in progress. I mean, very few of these candidates have a message that is clearly resonating that they are going to stick with. So, you're going to see a little bit of experimentation on Wednesday. I mean, Wednesday night is going to be ugly whether he's there or not, but you will see, you know, some of them are going to come in with a little bit more sophisticated strategy.
I think Chris Christie in particular would be interesting because he's going to use the lines, he's prepared to use to Donald Trump's face. He's just going to do it to camera. But I also think he can be sort of an emcee of the whole thing, saying, folks, imagine this, this is what his presidency would be like. He'll be too busy in court when we're trying to run the country. And I think he could, you know, distinguish himself a little bit.
PHILLIP: And these other candidates are not going to come out on skates from Christie, because one of the things that Christie does is he'll listen to the talking point and he'll call it out in that moment and create a moment by doing that.
REINES: He destroyed Marco Rubio.
PHILLIP: Yeah. So, I want to play a little flashback for you actually, Philippe. This is you playing Donald Trump in this debate prep with Hillary Clinton back in 2016. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILARY CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: First, I admit it, I made a mistake in using a private e-mail. I've said this before.
UNKNOWN: Breaking news.
CLINTON: I made a mistake running against this guy too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: So, is your prepping a candidate --
MADDEN: (Inaudible) That's the most Trump title I've ever (inaudible).
REINES: I was dragging on the floor.
PHILLIP: How do you prepare a candidate in moments -- for moments like that?
REINES: Well, that was a little bit of a light hearted moment.
PHILLIP: It's like a non (inaudible)
REINES: That was before the second debate and, you know, Trump had never debated one on one before the 2020 general election, 2016 general election. I thought he'd be very confused where to walk around on stage. So, I was trying to get a little --
PHILLIP: Which he was.
REINES: Which he was. I tried to get in her face a little bit, try to get in her peripheral vision. But to me, first of all, I'm just the ball machine. You can hear people laughing. You have people like Ron Klain and Karen Dunn who run the process and they're better than anything. I just -- someone tells me to test your forearm. I test your forearm.
But I think more than anything, you want them to hear or think about everything to help them think through how they want to say something. I mean, you're not giving them programmed lines. They're not just regurgitating something that they've memorized because their pollster has given it to them. You're helping them think through.
In that case, I mean, it was a bit of a light moment, but it was also to help her think through him interrupting her with something stupid, which, you know what, he did a hundred times.
REINES: So, it's very hard. You know, and I think on Wednesday, people come in, it's whack-a-mole because it's not that everyone, you know, if Kevin and I were to start debating and I were to attack him. People might say, you know what, Philippe is right. He's got a point there. But they might not like the way I did it. MADDEN: Right.
REINES: So, Christie can go after Pence and Haley, which I think he'll do as a package, and people might not like the way Christie did it. Asa Hutchinson, my friend --
MADDEN: The most important part of the prep there, which you saw, is the game time conditions. Because when you're out there, you really don't have time to sort of like, you know, okay, what was the prepared, you know, answer that I got? What's the fact and figure from the economy that I'm trying to deploy here?
Instead, it's like having those game time conditions where you get interrupted in how you react. I remember with the Romney campaign in 2012, we actually built a replica set, just like they did, so that every time when we practiced, and we probably did 12, 13 prep sessions, he was on the set just as it would look like on game day. And so, I think that muscle memory for candidates is really what helps them perform on game day.
REINES: I mean, that set was the set that President Obama used in 2012 at Camp David, and they lent it. They took it out storage and to test so we put together --
PHILLIP: The benefit of being --
PHILLIP: The benefit of the being the nominee. Kevin Madden and Philippe Reines, thank you both.
REINES: Good to be with you.
PHILLIP: And coming up next, a dispute in California over a pride flag ended sadly in a fatal shooting. And now we are learning more details about that suspect. That's next.
PHILLIP: New tonight, the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office has named the suspect in a fatal shooting of a 66-year-old woman in front of her business after what appears to have been a dispute over an LGBTQ Pride flag. Officials say the 27-year-old Travis Ikeguchi shot Laura Ann Carleton after an argument about the flag hanging outside of her clothing store.
Investigators say that the suspect, quote, "made several disparaging remarks about a rainbow flag that stood outside of the store before he shot Carleton. Now the suspect was later killed during a confrontation with deputies. Joining us with the latest developments in this investigation is CNN security correspondent Josh Campbell. Josh, just a short time ago the sheriff in San Bernardino County gave a very significant update in that investigation. What is the latest in this case?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, we learned a lot of new information. Authorities say that they have identified this suspect as a 27-year-old resident from the area where the shooting took place. Now, it took police a while to positively identify him, because after he was shot and killed, police say that he did not have any identification on his person.
Now, as if we needed any further proof that this was an anti-LGBTQ attack, authorities say that he went on Friday afternoon to Lori Carleton's store and tore down the Pride flag outside that store and was allegedly yelling homophobic slurs. She came out to confront him and she was sadly shot and killed by that suspect.
Police say that he fled about a mile and started shooting at responding deputies. They returned fire shooting and killing that suspect. Finally, Abby, one key piece of information we learned from the sheriff pertains to the suspect's social media presence. They say that he had a Twitter account, he had an account on the platform Gab, which of course is popular among far-right extremists. They say that those accounts were replete with posts about anti-gay material as well as anti-police material, Abby.
PHILLIP: It's awful and Laura Ann was a beloved member of her community. Her daughter earlier tonight spoke with our Anderson Cooper. Take a listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARI CARLETON, DAUGHTER OF LAURA ANN CARLETON: She always put the needs of others ahead of her own. And, you know, we had a really rough winter here in Southern California and her and my father had opened up a free store next to Magpie where they gave out food and supplies to the families that were impacted by the storms here. And I think that really just goes to show what an incredible person she was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: It's just such a senseless loss. What is the response? What has it been from the community right now?
CAMPBELL: Yeah, it was in the area today. I mean, we were talking with members of the community. There's this mixture of sadness, obviously grieving her loss, but also anger because we've seen these attacks time and time again on the LGBTQ plus community as well as allies. I mean, it's worth pointing out that Lori Carleton did not herself identify as LGBTQ plus, but she was described as a very powerful ally among the community.
And her daughter actually told CNN this was not the first time that the Pride flags outside of her store had been vandalized. And so, this was something that happened time and time again. And of course, as you look across the nation, we've seen time and again these attacks on the LGBTQ community, many of them turning very deadly. PHILLIP: All right. Josh Campbell, appreciate you bringing this latest
update to us tonight. Thank you.
CAMPBELL: You bet.
PHILLIP: And up next, a kiss at the Women's Soccer World Cup has sparked fury and an apology from a Spanish official. We'll have the latest next what it says about the state of women's sports.
PHILLIP: It was a kiss that caught the world and apparently a major women's soccer star by surprise. The president of the Royal Spanish Football Federation has now admitted that he, quote, "made a mistake" by giving soccer star Jennifer Hermoso an unwanted kiss on the lips after the 33-year-old player received her World Cup gold medal.
Now, Luis Rubiales has since faced intense criticism for this incident with some calling his behavior simply disgusting. Hermoso later told -- took to Instagram and said at a live video, "Hey, I didn't like it." That's saying the least. Joining us now is CNN sports analyst Christine Brennan. Christine, this is really incredible that this guy still seems to have his job, but we're talking about what some people are calling an unwanted kiss. Other people would call it sexual assault.
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: Exactly, Abby.
PHILLIP: Any consequences?
BRENNAN: Right now, none. And in fact, with soccer being so misogynistic around the world, maybe he'll be promoted. And I'm saying that, of course, facetiously, but this game, there's something almost refreshing in how terrible this is because the spotlight is on this. And everyone is able to see this awful, awful thing, this sexual assault, unwanted kissing, forced kissing, whatever you want to call it, that occurred with a subordinate, the Spanish president of the Spanish Federation.
And he did this on the world stage. The entire world is watching, 30 minutes after Spain won. So, as terrible as it is, look at this, folks. This is what's going on. If it's going on the stage, it's certainly going on behind the scene.
PHILLIP: Yeah. Can you even imagine? I mean, I think that's what's really so shocking about it. What's sad also is that this is Spain's first World Cup title and for it to be totally overshadowed by this awful moment --
PHILLIP: -- it's really terrible.
BRENNAN: It is and 36 hours and counting. I mean this story keeps growing and growing. I -- you know, these men have basically been able to run roughshod over soccer and women's soccer, women's football. The U.S. women, as you know, had to fight for equal pay for decades. England for 50 years, Abby, did not allow women to play football, soccer. In other words, they invent the game and then told women for 50 years from 1921 to '71.
So, the history of misogyny and sexism is there for all of us to see. And it really came home in a terrible way. One would hope sponsors would speak out.
BRENNAN: And people would say, you know, this is 2023. This kind of thing just can't keep happening.
PHILLIP: And draw a line on the sand. I mean, look, women's sports, whether it's soccer or basketball or what have you, they're fighting for their moment to have at least the same opportunity to shine, to build a fandom, to have sponsorships.
But it seems like you take a step forward and then in moments like this, it shows you how hard that fight has been.
BRENNAN: Well, it really is. And when you look at these players, as you said, this lifetime achievement, the greatest thing ever in Spanish soccer on the women's side, and to have it be ruined, let's just say where it is, it has been ruined by this man, their Federation president, who has decided to take it upon himself to have it be all about him and what he wanted to do with that player.
We saw him take her face in his hands and then again plant that kiss right on her lips. And as she said right away afterwards, she said, I didn't like that. And that, even though they've had a forced kind of reaction from her later on where she said it was just in the moment.
Clearly, she told us what she felt in that first (inaudible).
PHILLIP: And I think, I mean, we should say, look, this Women's World Cup has been just a huge moment for the sport. It's brought in so many fans. It's gotten so much attention. We want to keep the attention on that, but unfortunately something like this happens. It should just be a moment, I think, for us to remember that sexism is still there, but the women who are on the field are fighting against it every day. Christine, thank you for joining us on this. Appreciate it.
BRENNAN: Glad too. Thank you.
PHILLIP: And up ahead on "CNN Tonight," two men who have long alleged that Michael Jackson sexually abused them when they were children can move forward with their lawsuits. Laura Coates explains who could be held liable 14 years after that singer's death. That's next.