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CNN Live Event/Special
Michael Cohen to Testify in Trump Trial; Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired May 13, 2024 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:00]
JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: People that we know of who were trusted enough to deal with this. Not Donald Trump's children.
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Right.
RODGERS: Not -- Allen Weisselberg and Michael Cohen. And so what the jury is going to hear, in additional to all the facts, is that he is one of those people. That's a problem for Donald Trump.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And it all begins very, very shortly. This is the case - a case that people will be talking about in law school for some time to come.
Joey Jackson, Jennifer Rodgers, thank you both very much.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And thank you all so much for joining us today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. CNN's special coverage of Donald Trump's criminal trial continues now.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And you are looking at live pictures of downtown Manhattan, inside 100 Centre Street, behind me. Today we expect a drama-filled day with important stakes that may go a long way in determining if Donald Trump gets convicted. It is 10 - day 16 of trial. Right now the former president's motorcade is on route to the courthouse. Once Trump arrives and court gets underway, we expect the people to call the man who's evolved from Trump protector to Trump pariah to Trump prosecution witness, Michael Cohen.
I'm Anderson Cooper in New York.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, D.C. And you are watching special CNN live coverage of Donald Trump's hush money cover up trial.
Today, the man who bent the truth and broke the law for his former boss, the former president, goes on the stand. Michael Dean Cohen, the former Trump fixer and lawyer who imposed Trump's will on whatever he could, bullying and dealing and lawyering his way into getting Trump whatever Trump wanted. That allegedly includes buying the silence of Stormy Daniels, the adult film star and director who claims she had a sexual encounter with Trump in 2006, and then was paid to keep quiet about the tryst in 2016.
Today, Cohen tells his version of that story under oath. Prosecutors say Cohen is the link who can establish the how and the why of the case, that Trump said he wanted to make Stormy Daniels go away, and that he wanted it done to save his chances to win the 2016 election.
Trump's attorneys well, of course, cast Cohen in quite a different light. Expect the defense to accuse Cohen of being a litany of things, a liar, a thief, an extortionists who devised and then freelanced the Stormy Daniels scheme to line his own pockets. They will also portray him as a disgruntled former employee, hell-bent on bringing down Donald Trump however he can.
CNN's team of reporters and producers inside the courthouse are going to bring you constant updates to capture all the drama from this day of testimony.
But first, Anderson, back to you in New York.
COOPER: Jake, thanks very much.
I'm here with CNN's Paula Reid.
Paula, you have been covering all these cases for a long time. What kind of a witness - I mean what - do we know how Michael Cohen will do on the stand based on other trials he's been involved in?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: No one knows. And I've talked to folks on the prosecution side, in Cohen's camp, on the defense side. No one's sure exactly how this is going to go, but everyone agrees that the case really rests on what happens while Cohen is on the stand.
COOPER: It's hard to overstate his significance in all of this.
REID: Exactly. And how complicated a character he is. Now, he certainly comes with the baggage of previous convictions. Not only of election crimes related to this alleged hush money payment, but also lying to the IRS, lying to banks, lying to Congress. That doesn't disqualify you or make you an unhelpful witness. It's something you need to get around.
But the bigger challenge for prosecutors is that Michael Cohen has made pretty much his whole identity over the past seven years attacking the defendant. And in speaking with sources close to the defense team, they've been completely focused on this. This cross- examination is their defense. But their biggest challenge is, how do you cold (ph) down what you put in front of the jury, because there's so much material of Cohen just attacking Trump. And their goal is to paint him as a liar who is out for revenge. And "Revenge" is, of course, the name of one of his books.
COOPER: I want to play something Michael Cohen told to our colleague, Erin Burnett - actually, but before we do that, let's go to outside the courthouse. Kristen Holmes is standing by.
You've been talking to some of former President Trump's legal advisors. What have they been telling you? KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, I mean it's
becoming increasingly clear to the defense that there is no real smoking gun in terms of evidence and that this case really hinges on Michael Cohen. Now, these legal advisors are talking with Donald Trump. They talk to the lawyers within Donald Trump's circle that will be in the courtroom with him. And they say this is exactly where they want to be in terms of Michael Cohen because of the fact that they are going to try and paint him as a liar, to try and say that he is not a credible witness. Now we've talked a lot about the fact that there is a social media post, that we know that there's a book, podcasts, all of the things that Todd Blanche and the defense team have been going through meticulously looking for excerpts, looking for examples to show during that cross-examination.
But the other thing to keep in mind here is just how far back this relationship with Donald Trump and Michael Cohen goes.
[09:05:07]
When you talk about what - or who knows what, Michael Cohen knows probably everything there is to know about Donald Trump. But Donald Trump knows quite a bit about Michael Cohen as well.
We talked what about what this testimony might look like. Are they concerned? They said, no, they were much more concerned about the first day of Stormy Daniels' testimony when they were unsure of how many details would be allowed in, would they be sorted details, obviously, as we saw, it was an embarrassment or at least embarrassing testimony for Donald Trump. They feel like they know what Michael Cohen is going to say here. So, the entire point of Michael Cohen for the prosecution is to link all of this together. The defense team is ready for that, and as Paula said, they've been preparing their cross- examination.
COOPER: How do you the prosecution, Paula, is going to address the credibility problem?
REID: You have to get out in front of it. And they started to do that actually during jury selection. A nod to Michael Cohen. They said, look, we're going to put forward some witnesses who have some baggage. Clearly a reference to Michael Cohen. They have to have him walk through his own convictions. And then it's going to be interesting to see to what extent they have him talk about, you know, the books, the podcast, the endless interviews attacking the defendant.
There's also another issue that's come up, which is the one thing prosecutors have proven beyond a reasonable doubt and multiple witnesses is that nobody seems to like Michael Cohen. It'll be interesting to see if they have him address the comments that other people, like David Pecker or Hope Hicks have made about him, all of which have been critical.
COOPER: And, Kristen, do you have any insights about how Trump is preparing for today and what's -
HOLMES: They told him to remain calm. They do not want the same thing that happened in the middle of what happened with Stormy Daniels, where he was audibly cursing, where the judge had to step in. They want Michael Cohen to be the person that reacts. As Paula said, we cannot say exactly how he's going to react on the stand. We've seen different examples. Some of them, him remaining calm. Others, them - him flying off the handle. He's a volatile witness.
What they're trying to get from the Donald Trump side of this is for him not to react. For him not to curse under his breath, to make audible noises or shake his head, because they don't want it to show Michael Cohen that he's getting underneath Trump's skin because that's what they believe that they - that Michael Cohen wants a lot - or, excuse me, wants out of this is to get under Trump's skins.
So, what they're trying to do with him, prepare him for what Michael Cohen might say, but also get him to not react.
COOPER: Yes.
I want to play something that Erin Burnett talked about with Michael Cohen back in February about him testifying. Let's play that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: I had no problem the last time at the New York attorney general's case of being in the same room as Donald. I'm not the only one who has said this. I felt nothing. There's no intimidation by him. He's the one that's sitting at the defendant's desk, not me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Again, believe it or not, as everything, take it with a grain of salt.
REID: Yes, it strains credulity because clearly Michael Cohen has a lot of feelings. He's been through a lot related to Trump.
COOPER: His entire life has been based on Donald Trump.
REID: His entire life. Yes.
COOPER: I mean he used to dress like Donald Trump. There was that video we keep playing of him walking through a hallway, Donald Trump, where he's moving a plant. He's dressed identically to him, just different, you know, I think he has a blue tie, Trump has a red tie or vice versa. He - I mean and now that he's turned against him, he's still basing his life on him with podcasts, and books, and all of that.
REID: Yes, and a lot of emotion, a lot of feelings, a lot out of attacks. Personal, very personal attacks. And we're talking across a multimedia, right, empire that is mostly built around his feelings, most negative, about Trump. And that is a challenge for prosecutors because all the defense attorneys need to do is sew some doubt, right? They have to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. If you can sew just a little bit of doubt about Michael Cohen, since he is the only direct link between Trump and this alleged conspiracy to falsify business records, you could potentially change their mind.
COOPER: That is what is at the heart of this is -
REID: Yes.
COOPER: Did Donald Trump know about the falsification of the business records? The only person it seems who may directly be able to say that on the stand is Michael Cohen, whether you believe him or not.
REID: Yes. Allen Weisselberg, the former CFO at Trump Organization -
COOPER: Right.
REID: Could, but he is currently in Rikers. And we learned there's no plan to call him. So, it all comes down to Cohen.
COOPER: And he's remained loyal to Donald Trump.
REID: Yes.
COOPER: So, they're not calling him because they don't know what he would say.
REID: Exactly. They anticipate that he would plead the fifth, wouldn't get them very far. A lot of disagreement among legal scholars about whether that was the right play, not to even try to get him on the stand, get him under oath. But right now this all rests on Michael Cohen because no other witness has made a direct link between Trump and these allegedly falsified documents.
COOPER: Yes. Let's just play that video we have of - because, again, it's just so interesting to me that when he was working for Trump, he patterned himself after Trump, which I guess many people in Trump's orbit did. But there here is. They're dressed identically. It's very strange. We'll see what he's wearing today, Jake.
[09:10:00]
TAPPER: All right, Anderson, I appreciate it.
And, Jamie Gangel - I'm here with my panel.
Jamie Gangel, you have some new reporting on evidence that might be introduced today, and also you have some insights into Michael Cohen's state of mind as he prepares for what is arguably one of the biggest days of his life.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So, according to sources familiar, in addition to Michael Cohen's firsthand testimony today, prosecutors may introduce new documentary evidence that we have never seen before. We do not know what it is. We do not know if it is a game changer. But I'm told it's an example of the paper trail that goes beyond Michael Cohen's testimony.
I did speak to Michael Cohen in the last couple of days. He told me that he wasn't nervous, but that he was anxious. He wants to get it over. He said that his tone would be repentant, remorseful. That it would be similar to when he appeared before Elijah Cummings in the Oversight hearing. He pointed out that when Trump allies, like Jim Jordan, came after him, he handled it without losing his cool. We'll see if he can handle today without losing his cool.
TAPPER: And, John King, Michael Cohen's about to take the stand in just under - maybe about 20 minutes or so. And the stakes are huge.
This is a case full of unreliable narrators. There is - it is difficult to find one person that the - that the common observer can say, oh, this person always tells the truth.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Right. You have an admitted liar testifying about a chronic liar, about conduct to deceive people, to hide things, to lie for people, to hide something away.
TAPPER: Stormy Daniels, too, not exactly -
KING: Right. And so did the prosecutors create enough of a predicate to convince the jury, when Michael Cohen did this he was trusted by Donald Trump. He may have been doing deceptive things, he may have been doing shady things, but at that moment, he was Trump's guy. He was Velcroed to Trump. Everything he did was for Trump at Trump's direction. Can Michael Cohen convinced the jury - we'll see whatever new documentary evidence or what other paper trail they have into the prior witnesses, the accountants, the dry testimony, the people who have no grudge against Donald Trump. You know, that's the challenge for the prosecutors, and the lawyers can help with how this plays out to a jury.
And, you know, Michael Cohen was once, trust me, been on the receiving end of Michael Cohen when he was a loyal Trump spokesman, he was belligerent. He was a bully. He was tough. And you know what, I actually enjoyed it sometimes because he was so feisty in defending his client, right?
TAPPER: Yes.
KING: We do - that happens in campaigns.
The question is, can the - can the prosecutors convince the jury that, yes, he has lied a lot, but when he was doing this, he was, for Donald Trump, and he didn't do anything big like this without Trump telling him to do it.
TAPPER: So, and believe it or not, it has been almost, no, it's been more than five years since Michael Cohen testified before Congress and suggested publicly that he had - he had flipped.
KING: Wow, that's a long time.
TAPPER: It was 2019. So, unless my math is wrong, and I'm not -
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: No, that's right. My son was (INAUDIBLE) five.
TAPPER: I'm not - I'm not strong in math.
HUNT: He was not born yet. Yes.
TAPPER: So, I just want to - for you, Kasie, I want to play a little bit about what Michael Cohen testified to before the American people in 2019.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: He asked me to pay off an adult film star with whom he had an affair, and to lie about it to his wife, which I did.
Mr. Trump directed me to use my own personal funds from a home equity line of credit to avoid any money being traced back to him that could negatively impact his campaign. And I did that too without bothering to consider whether that was improper, much less whether it was the right thing to do or how would it impact me, my family, or the public. And I am going to jail in part because of my decision to help Mr. Trump hide that payment from the American people before they voted a few days later.
As Exhibit 5A to my testimony shows, I am providing a copy of a $35,000 check that President Trump personally signed from his personal bank account on August 1st of 2017, when he was president of the United States. The president of the United States thus wrote a personal check for the payment of hush money as part of a criminal scheme to violate campaign finance laws.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So, that's the basic charge. And I suspect that behind closed doors in courtroom 59, that is what we - they are going to hear.
HUNT: Right. Well, and, you know, to Jamie's point, if he says that this is the tone that he's going to take today, that gives you a real sense - and it is not the guy that was on the other end of the line. I've been on the other end of the line in those conversations too. Right, belligerent is like a perfect word for what Cohen would do in those kinds of situations.
[09:15:03]
I think my big question here is, you know, I feel like, as a campaign reporter covering Donald Trump in the years leading up to 2015 and '16 when he ran, you developed a very good sense of the role that Michael Cohen played in his orbit. The phone calls you would get, how close they were. The fact that he seemed to do everything on Trump's behalf and with Trump ordering him to do those things.
Has the prosecution made that case and helps the jury understand that in a way that will allow them to believe what Cohen is saying, even though he is an admitted liar?
TAPPER: Let's talk about the dynamics between Cohen and Trump because now having been in that courtroom I can say it is possible that Michael Cohen could come in and never actually make eye contact with Donald Trump. He walks in behind him. Goes around. It's not the lawyer, whoever's doing the cross-examination or the direct, is in front of the witness and Trump is all the way over here. It won't necessarily have any bearing on Michael Cohen, but it's hard to imagine it won't.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I think that's right. I think both sides are probably counseling their client/witness, Donald Trump and Michael Cohen, stay cool. Please, do not turn this into a personal grudge match, either of you. And I'm really interested to see which Michael Cohen we, and more importantly the jury, sees today.
Because Michael Cohen is capable - we saw it in that congressional testimony - he's capable of being quite clear and compelling. He can be a persuasive witness and person. But we've also seen Michael Cohen in his media appearances, in his TikToking, and other - in his other sort of media out - media appearances. He can be a mess. He can be angry. He can be vengeful. He can be self-contradictory.
I suspect, at least during direct exam, we're going to see the former. We're going to see the better version of Michael Cohen. It's a controlled environment on direct examination. He will only be questioned by the prosecution. He will know exactly what's coming.
To Jamie's new reporting, everywhere possible they're going to give him documents to back him up so that the jury has something to base a finding of credibility on.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think the big challenge is that it might be up to three days of testimony. And, yes, someone can behave themselves, can follow the directions they were given by their attorney. But once the - you're in that courtroom for a very long time, it can get incredibly stressful, and I think he probably breaks down at some point.
TAPPER: All right. Well, we're eagerly awaiting this morning for five words we expect to hear inside court any moment, the people call Michael Cohen.
CNN's special live coverage of Donald Trump's hush money coverup trial continues. We're going to squeeze in this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:22:16]
COOPER: And welcome back to CNN's special live coverage. Donald Trump is in the courthouse. He is making statement just before going into court. He was flank by Senators J.D. Vance and Tommy Tuberville, along with his son, Eric Trump.
Trump did, as he often does, ran through a miniaturized stump speech, reading from a stack of notes, quoting from Fox News defenders, before making accusations about the trial, unbound to reality all together. He also quoted from Fareed Zakaria.
Any minute Michael Cohen is expected to take the witness stand.
Let's turn to Elie Honig, who is standing by.
What can we expect today from the testimony?
HONIG: Well, Anderson, we have arrived at the pivotal moment of this trial, the testimony of Michael Cohen, who, of course, was Donald Trump's longtime attorney and fixer, up until he turned against Donald Trump in 2018. But he'll take us back, and the jury back, to the days before that. Most specifically to the days in 2016 leading up to the election.
Now, Michael Cohen will detail for the jury how he worked with David Pecker, who testified earlier in the trial, and people at "The National Enquirer," to catch and kill potentially damaging stories against Donald Trump, including, most importantly, Karen McDougal and, most relevant to the charges here, Stormy Daniels, who, of course, we heard from last week.
Now, it's really important to understand the way the financial transaction work with Stormy Daniels. Michael Cohen was right in the middle of that. In fact, he's the only person really who can tell us about both ends of the transaction.
Now, we know that Michael Cohen first paid Stormy Daniels $130,000 about a week before the 2016 election. He got that money by drawing down on his own personal home mortgage. We actually heard testimony from the banker who told us about that transaction.
And then, in the year or so that followed, Donald Trump and his business entities reimbursed Michael Cohen a total of $420,000 through a series of checks. So, Michael Cohen is going to walk the jury through both sides of these transactions.
Now, as we learned earlier, the prosecutors are going to use documents to backup Michael Cohen wherever they can, including copies of those reimbursement checks, some of which were signed by Donald Trump. We see his recognizable signature there. They will put these in front of Michael Cohen to help bolster his credibility.
We also will see this page of handwritten notes which came into testimony two weeks ago. Really important because it shows exactly how the internal accounting within the Trump Organization arrived at that $420,000 amount to reimburse Michael Cohen.
Now, one really crucial meeting that we'll hear Michael Cohen testify about during his testimony, happened on February 5, 2017, a few weeks after Donald Trump became president. We heard some warm-up for this last week. Michael Cohen meets one-on-one with Donald Trump at the White House.
[09:25:02]
Now, we do have a sense of what Michael Cohen's going to testify about, what was discussed at that meeting, because he already told Congress about it back in 2019. Let's take a quick listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TRUMP LAWYER: One month into his presidency, I'm visiting President Trump in the Oval Office for the first time. And it's truly awe inspiring. He's showing me all around and pointing to different paintings. And he says to me something to the effect of, don't worry, Michael, your January and February reimbursement checks are coming. They were FedExed from New York and it takes a while for that to get through the White House system. As he promised, I received the first check for the reimbursement of $70,000 not long thereafter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HONIG: Now, when Michael Cohen is done, his direct examination probably after today, he will be cross-examined vigorously, aggressively. The defense lawyers for Donald Trump will point out that Michael Cohen has been convicted of various federal frauds, campaign finance violations, false statements to Congress relating to different testimony than what you just saw, tax fraud in his personal capacity, bank fraud. He has a long record of being convicted of fraud and perjury.
Also on cross-examination, when it happens a couple days from now, you can count on Donald Trump's team pointing out, Michael Cohen has bias. He hates Donald Trump. He wore this t-shirt of Donald Trump in prison just the other day. He has financial motives. He profited off his books. And other prosecution witnesses, including Keith Davidson, have said Michael Cohen was a liar. So, look for that when we get to cross- exam.
Anderson, this will be the pivotal moment of this trial.
COOPER: Elie Honig, thanks so much.
District attorney Alvin Bragg is in the courtroom as well.
We're back in New York outside the courthouse with Paula Reid and CNN's Kaitlan Collins. I also want to bring in former New York State Supreme Court Justice Jill Konviser.
Judge Konviser, you know, I mean you've been watching Judge Merchan navigate this trial. From a judges perspective, what are you going to be watching for today?
JILL KONVISER, FORMER NEW YORK STATE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Well, that's a good question. And from a judge's perspective, there's a lot to watch.
First and foremost will be that - to make sure that the prosecutor asks very pointed questions so that Michael Cohen doesn't go off the rails, if you would. That could be a problem for the prosecution. We know that Michael Cohen has an axe to grind, and we know that he doesn't always follow the rules. In fact, we heard last week Judge Merchan say, Michael Cohen, stand down, you're causing problems for this trial.
Again, Judge Merchan's goal is to make sure the defendant gets the fair trial that he is entitled to get. So, he's going to be watching very carefully and he's going to be on top of the answers to make sure that Michael Cohen answers precisely the questions that are asked and nothing further.
The second thing he's going to be looking for is the defendant, Donald Trump's, reaction. Because as we've seen Donald Trump in the courtroom before and heard that he has audibly responded, the judge is going to make sure that's kept to a minimum. That's what he's going to be focusing on today.
COOPER: Have you -- I mean I've - and you've had a long experience as a judge. I mean have you seen a lot of defendants who come in with the kind of baggage that Michael Cohen does?
KONVISER: Well, yes and no.
COOPER: Or witnesses I should say.
KONVISER: I know what you mean, witnesses. Witnesses - look, the people of the state of New York, when they're prosecuting a crime, do not get to pick their witnesses. We'd all love to have rabbis or priests or imams, but that's not who you end up with. And often you end up with people, whether it's a gang case or homicide case, people who are in that world who were witnesses to it. So, you often have compromised witnesses. Witnesses with long rap sheets. Think of the best example probably is Sammy "The Bull" Gravano. He admitted to myriad homicides and he was a star witness, you know, against John Gotti and John Gotti was convicted. So, you do see it. This is slightly different baggage because of the hatred that seems palpable between the two men. So, the answer is, yes, sort of yes and no.
COOPER: You know, Kaitlan, it seems to - because a lot of the lies that Michael Cohen has said he will say were in - were in defense of Donald Trump.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, well, and Trump's team will combat that and say, OK, so you committed tax evasion on behalf of Donald Trump? I don't think so.
The thing is, you know, Michael Cohen and Donald Trump, what's remarkable about this is they have not spoken since the summer of 2018 after Michael Cohen's home and office were raided. And that was really the last conversation. There was a brief - Trump called him to check in after that happened. But really since then that is when the complete deterioration of this relationship began.
[09:29:59]
But another interesting thing that Michael Cohen may testify about, and that I imagine prosecutors will ask him about, is something that he testified about that people seem to forget from that 2019 testimony on
