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Now: Michael Cohen Testifies About Stormy Daniels Story; Michael Cohen Testifies Trump Worried About Campaign, Not His Marriage When Stormy Daniels Came Forward. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired May 13, 2024 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:00]

WILL SCHARF, TRUMP ATTORNEY: If it makes it to the jury, the jury should certainly acquit. That's I think the situation that we're dealing with here. We have this smoke and mirrors campaign by the prosecution to pollute the jury. The jury's understanding of this case with a lot of irrelevant, highly prejudicial material. But we haven't really heard much about what's at the core of this case, which is business records fraud.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: All right, Will Scharf, thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it.

Attorney George Conway is back here with us. He is a donor to Biden's re-election campaign, we should note. George, your reaction to Will Scharf? I could sense that you didn't agree with him.

GEORGE CONWAY, CONSERVATIVE LAWYER: Yes, I mean, I think a lot of it is nonsense. I mean, I think, if he gets a hung jury here, and I think he's not going to get an acquittal, I think it's going to be because somebody does not make that connection between Trump and these records.

But the problem for the defense is, he signed some of the checks. He paid very close attention to things that were expenditures made on his behalf. We heard the testimony about a metal announced a hot and then the $600 for whatever it was on. And we hear -- you know, he's going to -- he looked at these things.

The backup from the checks that he was signed, they had backup on it. The fake invoice, what it was for? And the point about it is it's not about -- the Trump talking points here, which you hear from a lot of lawyers seems to be basically that unless he was there at the computer and he clicked that on the drop down menu, a false that he did it himself, then, you know, beyond a reasonable doubt, acquittal.

It's just not the case. The statute says, did he cause this to happen? And if you look at the entirety of the evidence and not look at the way a defense lawyers, you know, and spinmeisters (ph) look at it, which is to take every little piece and not connect the dots, it's -- you can't figure out what the alternative theory is.

The alternative theory that would allow a jury to say, well, we have all these facts. They're not really disputed. I think we heard one of the Trump lawyers say it's not -- the facts really not understood. What's the innocent explanation for this? And there is none.

TAPPER: So right now what's going on in the courtroom, Cohen's describing settling the Karen McDougal matter, and then he testifies that Dylan Howard, the editor-in-chief of the National Enquirer tells him that Stormy Daniels, the adult film actress and director, is out looking to sell her story about Trump.

Asked what kind of impact Stormy Daniels story would have on the campaign, Cohen says, catastrophic. This is horrible for the campaign.

Joining us now to discuss, Republican Congresswoman Nicole Malliotakis of New York who was inside the courtroom this morning. Congresswoman, thanks for joining us. What was it like inside the courtroom? How does the former president seem, and why are you there?

REP. NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS (R), NEW YORK: Well, I'm here today to support President Trump. I think that he is facing a sham situation here that is very politically motivated. You have a district attorney who is going after him for political reasons. This is, remember, a matter that the FEC, Federal Elections Commission, said there was nothing -- no crime here.

The DOJ, no crime. Cy Vance, the former district attorney, no crime. And yet Alvin Bragg, who, by the way, in New York City, you know, people are so concerned about crime, about illegal immigrant gang members, about repeat offenders on our streets. He either reduces or drops charges on all these repeat offenders in New York who are committing crimes and yet he's going after the former president, a political opponent for a crime that's not even within his jurisdiction or a crime that even mattered and so -- happened.

So that is why I'm here to support the president against what I think is a sham trial. And the mood, he, look, he's in good spirits. I think he's obviously unhappy that he has to spend his time in a dreary, cold courtroom away from his supporters, away from the campaign trail. But that's what this is about.

It's a design to keep him off the campaign trail, to keep him stuck in Manhattan, at a time when he should be out campaigning around the country, talking about President Biden's failed agenda. The fact that we have an open border with millions of people coming in, including gang members and drug smugglers.

The fact that we have high inflation that's continued, high gas prices --

TAPPER: Right, right.

MALLIOTAKIS: -- that American families are struggling to put food on the table. That's what the president should be doing right now, but instead, because of a district attorney who wants to politically persecute him, he's here in his courtroom.

TAPPER: So what exactly are you suggesting when you call this a sham trial? Are you saying that Donald Trump did not have this moments with Stormy Daniels, that he did not pay her hush money or that he did not falsify records about it? What what exactly are you suggesting he is innocent of?

[12:35:04]

MALLIOTAKIS: What I'm suggesting is that there was no crime committed here. And so far, the prosecution has failed to make a connection. And remember, today is the star witness, Michael Cohen, who's testifying. And this is somebody who is a convicted, disbarred perjurer. He's lied before Congress.

He's actually admitted to lying. He's pled guilty and been convicted of lying. And that is the star witness. And to being here today, I haven't heard anything that makes any type of connection that some type of crime was committed by the former president.

TAPPER: All right, Congresswoman Malliotakis from New York, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

We're back here. And, George, your response to the congresswoman, who we should --

CONWAY: Well --

TAPPER: -- know, by the way, voted to undermine the Biden win in 2021.

CONWAY: You can just see, I mean, you know, they're all working off the same talking points. I mean, they're saying exactly the same thing. And the fact of the matter is, I want to make a political point here. I've already made the legal point.

The whole point here is that they said, oh, this is terrible. This is designed to keep him off the campaign trail. Well, actually, if you look at it politically, in my judgment, this is helping him politically in the following sense.

It is keeping him from being on television saying all the crazy things that he was -- like in Wildwood the other day. That show in Wildwood, New Jersey. I wish it had been broadcast on this network and on all the other networks live so everybody could see how crazy he was.

He's -- he -- this is actually helping him politically by keeping the attention away from the nutty things he says and does. So, I mean, I think that'll change if there's a jury conviction here, but I think, you know, it's not necessarily hurting him politically at this moment, at this time.

TAPPER: So, in the courtroom right now, just to get you up to speed, this is what Michael Cohen is telling the story of Dylan Howard from the -- he's the editor-in-chief of The National Enquirer, in 2016, contacts Michael Cohen, tells him Stormy Daniels, the adult film actress and director, is out there shopping her story, and Cohen thinks it would be catastrophic, in his words, horrible for the campaign.

That's important prosecution-wise, horrible for the campaign. Not horrible for Donald Trump's marriage, but horrible for the campaign is his first reaction. "Boss, I've got to speak to you," he told Trump, according to Cohen. "I told him that one of the things that we need to do is obviously take care of it." Trump said, "Absolutely. Do it. Take care of it." Cohen said that Trump told him about meeting with Stormy Daniels.

Cohen says Trump told him, women prefer Mr. Trump even over someone like Big Ben. That's a reference to Ben Roethlisberger from the Pittsburgh Steelers. Cohen says -- who was at the same golf tournament in Lake Tahoe. Sorry if you're not as up to speed as people like me who have now been forced to know that story. Cohen says he heard nothing about the Daniels matter between 2011 and learning from Dylan Howard that her story had resurfaced.

Jeff Zeleny is joining us. And here is the crux of the matter. Cohen is being shown more text he exchanged with Dylan Howard from The National Enquirer. He puts his glasses on before he reads the text for the jury. This is actually what the trial is about. Michael Cohen covering up the Stormy Daniels matter and the falsification of business records.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It is. I mean, it's a document case. It's not a sex case per se or anything else. To Georgia's point about the politics of this, there is some evidence of that. And I was talking to a Trump adviser this morning. The reason that the senators and the Iowa attorney general and the congresswoman are in the courtroom there because the campaign put out an all-call to anyone with any connection to New York or law enforcement or, you know, in an official-like capacity to come and join him at the trial.

We know he's been very upset that he's been alone on some days. All that has changed now. So seeing the Iowa attorney general who endorsed him and is eager, obviously, for a potential appointment should he win, I thought that was very interesting. But today is different in that respect. He is surrounded by people who adore him.

TAPPER: Yes, and it's not hard to see the math of a Republican official.

ZELENY: Sure.

TAPPER: I'm an attorney general in Iowa. I want to run for Senate or governor in two years, four years. Here is a chit I'm earning with Donald Trump that will come back. If you're loyal to him, maybe he'll help you out down the road.

ZELENY: For sure. And it has nothing to do with this case, really. But as far as the jury sort of seeing other people around, it could have some effect. Who knows? But the point here is this is the crux of the case. And we're about to get to more of Michael Cohen's involvement, his time at the White House that day in February.

I remember it well, him walking into the White House like, what are you doing here? It's kind of odd because he famously was not hired in the Trump White House, even though he told many of us he might be White House counsel. Of course, that also didn't happen.

TAPPER: So Michael Cohen right now is reading an October 10th, 2016 text.

[12:40:01]

Dylan Howard, the editor-in-chief of The National Enquirer, sent to both Cohen and also Keith Davidson, who was the attorney for both Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels. And he had just also mentioned Cohen says he told Howard about the name of the shell corporation that he set up.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So now you're inside one month to the election, right? October 10th, 2016, you're inside a month to the election. The point you just made with Jeff just tells you how many times that we had this conversation?

You just said the math makes sense for an Iowa attorney general Republican to come to the trial. You are absolutely correct. But at times, how many times at that point, October 10th, 2016, most Republicans thought Donald Trump was going to lose the election.

He won the election. Then after, you know, after so many other things, including January 6th, at the end of his term, Republicans said we are done with him. We're done with him. We're washing our hands of him. We want to go away. Even when he started to run again this time, there were a lot of Republicans who stayed back a bit saying maybe this isn't real. Do we have to do this?

Now, you're absolutely correct because he is the presumptive nominee. And the polling shows that as of this moment, he's at an even odds, maybe even a little better than even odds can chance to win back the White House as of today. Six months to go.

And Republicans are running into embrace him again --

TAPPER: Yes.

KING: -- including many Republicans who you could find on the record, on television, in statements, to reporters, in newspapers saying, never again, I'm done with him.

TAPPER: And, in fact, after the Access Hollywood tape came out, even people on his campaign wouldn't go out to defend him on the Sunday shows. Rudy Giuliani did. Rudy Giuliani was the Iron Man of defending Trump on Sunday shows or any cable network, really, or any network, period.

Cohen says the business opportunity referenced in the text was the acquisition of the life rights of Stormy Daniels. So again, Jamie Gangel, they are talking very clearly, very directly, Cohen -- Michael Cohen as an emissary for Donald Trump, Dylan Howard with the National Enquirer. Keith Davidson, an emissary for Stormy Daniels. And previously, Karen McDougal, talking about, again, hush money payments.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: And let's just say it again. This is October, late October. The timing is critical. We have about two weeks to the election. I just -- I keep bringing up Hope Hicks because if you go back and look at her testimony, it's -- there is so much there about the Access Hollywood tape. And how damaging it was politically.

And the political fallout --

TAPPER: Cohen says, by the way, that he's keeping Trump informed of all of this as it's going on. Quote, "That was what I always did, which was to keep him abreast of everything," Cohen says of Trump. Cohen testifies that Trump was mad at him during this period.

ZELENY: What she went on to lie about later, he was asked about on Air Force One if he knew about this. And he said he did not. Catherine Lucey, then at the Associated Press, now at the Wall Street Journal, asked the president directly that on Air Force One. And he did not --

TAPPER: Not at this moment. Like a few --

ZELENY: Sure, not at this moment but this was --

TAPPER: -- a few weeks later.

ZELENY: -- a couple of years later.

TAPPER: Yes.

ZELENY: He said he didn't know about it at this moment.

TAPPER: When the story breaks -- and the story breaks in 2017 or 2000 -- no, the Stormy Daniels story breaks -- when is that?

ZELENY: The --

TAPPER: Karen McDougal is right before the election.

ZELENY: For sure. But this -- in 2017, he was asked about to knowing about the payment. And he said he did know about it.

TAPPER: No.

ZELENY: You'll have to ask Michael Cohen is what the president said --

TAPPER: So this is why Donald Trump was mad at him, according to Michael Cohen. Trump says, "I thought you had this under control. I thought you took care of this." Trump briefly looked up at Cohen on the witness stand. So he is doing some brief looking up.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: You know what's really interesting? The two guests that were on a moment ago had said there's no evidence whatsoever. And one went as far as to say that there ought to be a directed acquittal, which defense would move for if the prosecution had established no evidence whatsoever. This is all incredibly persuasive evidence.

Now, does it rise to the reasonable doubt standard? That'll remain to be seen later on at trial. But you have shell companies, reimbursements, entries and records and corroboration in the form of documents all being presented in front of the jury. Now, again, how persuasive it is, is an open question. But this notion that's beginning push that there's simply no evidence being submitted here and they all just pack up and walk home is just nonsense.

TAPPER: So, before I throw it to Anderson, just a couple notes of what's being said in court right now. So Trump is mad at Cohen when he tells him about the Stormy Daniels story. "I thought you had this under control. I thought you took care of this." Trump says to him. Trump says, "Just take care of it."

Cohen says, "There was a lot going on at the campaign at the time." Just take care of it. Cohen -- when Cohen says this, Trump -- he looks at Trump and the defense table. Cohen continues recounting from Trump. Women are going to hate me. Guys may think it's cool, but this is going to be a disaster for the campaign.

Cohen said, he told me to work with David, that's David Pecker, who ran -- the CEO of American Media Incorporated, and get control over this. Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Jake, thanks very much. We are closing in on this morning session. They'll take a break, usually around 1:00 for lunch. There'll be more, obviously, of his testimony this afternoon here with Paula Reid and Kaitlan Collins.

Michael Cohen says he told me to work with David and get control over this. We're really just getting into sort of the Stormy Daniels tale.

[12:45:01]

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're starting to get into the facts that are material to the criminal charges here. It's actually a pretty appropriate place for them to do their lunch, kind of an intermission, and we come back. You know, then the testimony becomes critical, talking about how exactly he facilitated this payment to Stormy Daniels and any involvement that Trump had, any conversation he has with Trump in and around setting up that LLC, giving the hush money to Stormy Daniels.

And then even more importantly for this case, what happens after that once Trump is in the White House. This is going to be the critical testimony. Most of what we've heard so far, we've heard before many times from Michael Cohen, from other witnesses, but we could start to get some new details, some new material when they come back from lunch. And it's unclear right now if this will be able to wrap up today or prosecutors will have to go through tomorrow.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: That comment about his concern with certain voters and certain demographics, and he said that men won't really care, but he said women will hate me for this. That's important testimony because as the defense is going to argue, Trump was just trying to protect his family and his relationship with the first lady -- the upcoming first lady at this point, she was just Mrs. Trump.

And so, essentially the argument that Michael Cohen is saying is that Trump had voters in mind as he was concerned about the fallout from the Stormy Daniels' story.

COOPER: This is important. Cohen says that Trump told him, "I want you to just push it out as long as you can, just get past the election."

COLLINS: Which is exactly what Keith Davidson testified that they were worried about, and that Stormy Daniels told them to nullify it. Trump says -- Cohen is saying that Trump told him because if I win, it will have no relevance because I'm president, and if I lose, I don't really care.

COOPER: Cohen says he wasn't even thinking about Melania. This was all about the campaign. Trump smirks and shakes his head.

COLLINS: Trump is noticeably paying more attention as they are getting into this back and forth. He's looked up at the -- towards the witness stand, which so far he had not been doing. He'd been going through papers and looking at the screens and closing his eyes.

Michael Cohen has also looked over in the direction of the defense table a few times, which as we've noted, the witness can't actually see Trump unless they lean forward. Michael Cohen said that, quote, "Donald Trump wasn't even thinking about Melania." This was all about his campaign, and then he raised Melania to Donald Trump, and Trump said, "Don't worry. How long do you think I'll be on the market for? Not long."

COLLINS: Oh, wow. That's basically Michael Cohen saying that Trump was essentially arguing that if Melania Trump was upset enough over this to leave him, that it wouldn't be a problem for him.

REID: He'd find a fourth wife or fourth girlfriend. That's what it seems to be insinuating there. That's how I read that.

COOPER: Yes. That's --

REID: It's a pretty callous comment. It'll be interesting to see from our reporters inside how Trump responds to that.

COLLINS: I mean, a reminder, Michael Cohen went and had lunch with Melania Trump after he lied to her about the Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal stuff to apologize to her. When he testified to Congress, he said one of his biggest regrets was lying to the first lady because he said that she was a good person and that she didn't deserve it, but he was saying he was lying on Donald Trump's behalf.

I mean, it is a question of how Melania Trump, who has been paying attention to this trial. I've been told by sources, how she'll react to a comment like that from Michael Cohen where Donald Trump is saying, not only am I not also worried about Melania and the campaign, I'm not worried about Melania Trump's reaction to this at all. I'm only worried about the campaign. That is what Michael Cohen is testifying in front of the jury right now.

COOPER: Cohen has shown an email from Davidson, the attorney for Stormy Daniels, which includes an attachment of the initial settlement agreement between Daniels and Trump from October 10th, 2016. COLLINS: I mean, that's one of the most remarkable moments that we have seen in this testimony so far.

COOPER: Yes.

REID: Yes, absolutely.

COLLINS: Michael Cohen saying that Donald Trump was saying I could get another wife easily, essentially.

REID: Both of the -- really the new moments that we've gotten from Michael Cohen are his comment about Melania being the genesis of the locker room talk, talking point, and then this comment about him not being concerned if he was to get divorced, that he'd find another girlfriend or another wife pretty quickly.

COLLINS: I mean, that's going to be really damaging for the defense when they are, I mean, potentially we'll see how they handle it --

REID: Yes.

COLLINS: But for them to make their argument that he was just trying to protect his marriage by doing this.

REID: Yes, absolutely. And again, it's also another example of how his family's presence, if more of his children or Melania were to attend, that could help bolster his caring about his family, his relationship with his family. But only his son Eric has shown up for a few days, and that's something that the jury notices. So, yes, this is all really helpful for the prosecution.

COOPER: It is remarkable to me that his family, I mean, I get Melania Trump not showing up --

REID: Yes.

COOPER: But, I mean, Donald Trump Jr., I don't know what he does all day, but I mean, where is he in this trial, or Ivanka Trump? Michael Cohen testifies that by October 11th, he and Davidson had already agreed on the terms of the agreement. Eric Trump has showed up several times.

REID: Yes, he has five adult children. Barron is, of course, finishing up high school, so you may understand why he doesn't show up. But Eric Trump has showed up on a few different days. We have not seen any of the other three adult children. One of them, Donald Trump Jr., I think you said --

COLLINS: He's not been there.

REID: Yes, he has not been there. It's unclear if he could be called as a witness, but it's a five, six-week trial. They could show up once in a while. They could have a rotation. The fact that they have not shown up, I mean, that doesn't help. It's not going to make or break the case, but it doesn't help their dad.

[12:50:07]

COLLINS: I want to say it's not surprising that Melania Trump is not there. It is a given. I think we've all understood how she operates and how she handles this. But it is not normal for -- typically, when there is a politician involved in a scandal of a sexual nature like this, you always kind of see the doting wife by their side, supporting them at their press conferences, at their statements.

Melania Trump obviously has chosen a very different route. But the fact that she's not there, you know, the jury doesn't know all of that. So for the jury to look out and to see this and to see that Melania Trump, you know, if she was seated in that first row where she would be in direct, clear view of the jury, it could have an impact on the jury. So it is noticeable that she's choosing not to do that.

COOPER: Let's go back to Jake. Jake?

TAPPER: Anderson, thanks so much.

And, obviously, the introduction of this testimony by Michael Cohen, that Donald Trump had a rather glib response when asked about how Melania Trump might respond to Stormy Daniels' allegation, is, Elie Honig, correct me if I'm wrong, to underscore that this payment and the hush money cover up of the payment was about the campaign and not about the marriage.

And just to remind people, Cohen said that when, you know, he asked about how Melania was going to respond, he said something along of like, how long do you think I'll be on the market for? Not long.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Right.

TAPPER: Cohen says, and this is Cohen's characterization, he wasn't thinking about Melania. This was all about the campaign. And then we're having introduction of emails from Keith Davidson, Stormy Daniels' attorney, which includes the attachment of the initial settlement between Daniels and Trump.

This is October 10th, 2016, literally just a few weeks, three weeks maybe before the presidential election. By October 11th, he and Davidson have already agreed to the terms, including the $130,000 sum, the liquidated damages clause of $1 million per violation. Cohen said that's his idea.

Cohen says it was his idea to include punitive damages clause, penalizing Stormy Daniels if she violated the agreement to ensure that she didn't speak. So this is all about, this is just the campaign.

HONIG: That's exactly the point the prosecutors are trying to make through Michael Cohen here. Donald Trump was worried about the campaign. He couldn't care less, according to Michael Cohen, about what Melania would do. And even if she divorced him, he said, well, how long do you think before I'm snapped up as some sort of eligible bachelor?

Now, we're on a really important moment right here because Michael Cohen is about to enter into the agreement with Stormy Daniels and her lawyers, the nondisclosure agreement, the hush money agreement. And one thing that I'm really looking for is why did they do it in the sort of unusual way they did it, where Michael Cohen first pays $130,000 of his own money that he draws out of his mortgage, and then later get reimbursed?

I actually wonder if Lanny Davis --

TAPPER: But before we get to that --

HONIG: Yes.

TAPPER: -- let me just say, Michael Cohen is reiterating he was purposely delaying the funding to Daniels, hoping to push off this issue until after the election. Go ahead, I'm sorry.

HONIG: More along those lines, it was a campaign --

TAPPER: He says, I was following directions. Quote, "I was following directions," the directions being, I guess, the vague direction from Donald Trump. Take care of this now with the implication that obviously the campaign was front and center.

HONIG: And that's the crucial part of Michael Cohen's testimony because there's no question Michael Cohen was dealing with Stormy Daniels and her lawyer, Keith Davidson. There's no question they had texts and signed the agreement. The key part here is Michael Cohen tying it to Donald Trump.

I do wonder, Lanny, if you know, maybe you can give us all a preview, what is Michael's explanation going to be of why he first paid with his own personal money and then later was reimbursed? I could see that playing for or against either side here.

LANNY DAVIS, MICHAEL COHEN'S FORMER ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, Trump did not want to make the payment himself, and Michael did what Trump wanted him to do to protect Trump. So if he makes the payment, it's not traceable, Trump thinks, to himself. The other thing to remember the corroborating evidence is Pecker and Dylan Howard. They have emails and text messages about Stormy Daniels when she resurfaces and she does call the National Enquirer.

So they're involved in pushing Trump to pay and he's waiting and waiting and waiting until the last two weeks and the timing also shows political motivation. And let's be clear, the first crime has to show political motivation. Have we had any evidence that he was worried about Melania?

HONIG: A little bit. You know, some, not none.

DAVIS: I haven't heard -- maybe I missed that. I'm reading testimony --

HONIG: I mean, the one witness has said he was worried that -- he didn't want Melania to see the newspaper in the morning. He asked to not have the newspaper delivered to his house. I'm not saying it overwhelms the campaign evidence, but there is some of that.

TAPPER: So we were talking about John Edwards. I was talking about John Edwards earlier because of the role of the National Enquirer, quite a different role of the National Enquirer, which uncovered that extramarital situation as opposed to the ones that they're trying to cover up here.

But how much does the prosecution have to prove? Because the issue of whether John Edwards was doing that and all the campaign finance laws were allegedly being violated was John Edwards' lawyer argued he was just trying to hide this from his wife and his children.

[12:55:04]

How much does the prosecution have to prove that this was -- is it like 51 percent campaign-related, 49 percent other?

DAVIS: Nobody knows the answer to that because we have so little precedent. So a jury would have to regard it as a significant part of the motivation, whatever significant means.

TAPPER: Just significant, that's it.

DAVIS: Whatever it means, and in the John Edwards case, because of the cancer and the absence of all of the corroborating testimony we have here about -- it's about the campaign, said David Pecker. It's about the campaign, said Hope Hicks. We have almost everyone saying this is about the campaign, pay the money, it's going to hurt you in the campaign.

If there was a reference to Melania, I missed it, but it wasn't as serious a reference in the evidence that they were worried about the campaign. And the timing is really telling you everything. They heard from Stormy Daniels right after Access Hollywood when she knew that they were valuable.

That's when David Pecker said, we've heard from Stormy Daniels, she's back. And then they waited two weeks, as Michael testifies and they've testified, and Trump wasn't ready. And finally, as the election is approaching, he's told Michael, you pay to protect himself to answer your question, Elliot.

TAPPER: Yes.

WILLIAMS: So expect the defense to hammer that one sentence there.

TAPPER: What one sentence?

WILLIAMS: The one sentence, because if I win, it will have no relevance because I'm president. Because right there, that is the most compelling evidence, thus far, establishing the link that you all are talking about right here, this idea that the actions were taken to benefit the campaign.

I would think the defense, you know, will really go after him about this. Because really right now what you have is one witness's memory. Forget all the stuff about the prior convictions and so on. It's just him trying to remember a conversation he would have had, what is this, back in 2016. And that's inherently subject to lapses in memory, bias and so on. And I think this will be a really important part of the cross-examination.

TAPPER: Well, to what degree do you think, Lanny Davis, I mean, obviously the defense is going to hammer home the idea you cannot take this unprecedented step of finding a former president guilty of a crime based on the words of Michael Cohen. I mean, you know, you can almost write it for them.

To what extent do you think the jury is going to be susceptible to that message?

DAVIS: I think if the prosecution does what I saw them do for months and months and months, which is concoct, create all this documentary evidence to back up Michael Cohen, there would be a problem in the prosecution's case. As I watched them construct their case, everything that Michael was saying, they found documents to support.

So what I said from the very beginning is that the corroboration of everything that Michael Cohen has testified to is very strong, and it's more than just one sentence. There are witnesses, David Pecker, Hope Hicks, were the two I remember, that say this was about the campaign.

WILLIAMS: Right, I'm just saying when a witness comes in with a direct quote and an incredibly incriminating one --

DAVIS: It's compared to the rest of it.

WILLIAMS: Sure, no, I think we largely agree more than that.

DAVIS: I actually think this case is over as to the motivation of the payment. It was about the campaign. The issue that the prosecution faces is Trump's knowledge or he knew but was blind to the knowledge of the booking of the expense as falsely booked as legal expense.

TAPPER: Did the prosecution give Michael Cohen, as far as you know, any indication how long they think their direct questioning of him will go before the defense gets their chance at the cross?

DAVIS: So we guessed the answer, Jake, is no, they didn't, but we guessed a couple of days, and I'm thinking that's about right.

TAPPER: Yes.

HONIG: This is moving quickly, though. He's our -- we're three hours in. He's already at the key part of this, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's less.

TAPPER: Yes, and then they're going to -- the court's going to resume, testimony's going to resume at 2:00 p.m.

Jamie Gangel, one of the things that's interesting is you have the Republican Party falling in line behind Donald Trump and saying basically, as Lanny said or maybe it was George said, it's all just, you know, they have their talking points. It's a sham trial. You know, you heard Congresswoman Malliotakis, whatever.

It's the same script. It's a sham trial. Albert Bragg is doing this for political reasons. He could be prosecuting criminals, da, da, da, da. There isn't really, and maybe I'm wrong, and I certainly don't consume resistance media, but I have not seen any sort of line of Democratic politicians out there arguing this case is about justice and, you know, making the argument that this is actually a very important case.

I mean, I -- maybe I've missed it. Have you seen Democrats out there talking about how important this is? I haven't.

ZELENY: I have not.

GANGEL: So Jeff Zeleny would be the expert on this, but it seems to me that the Biden White House and campaign is concerned about getting too into this right now.

TAPPER: Well, I get why they're not, but where are the --

GANGEL: But maybe they have said to their surrogates, this really isn't going to help us. Just stay away from it until we see what --

TAPPER: If the more partisan Democrats go out there, then maybe --

ZELENY: They may have a Democratic senator just a few blocks from there who's also beginning a trial today. So I don't think they want to talk about the whole law and justice order at all.

KING: That's a key point, though. You don't hear the Republicans saying Senator Menendez or Congressman Cuellar are being politically prosecuted by the Biden administration, do you? You don't hear that. I grew up in America that's long forgotten, or at least for the last five years forgotten, where politicians didn't talk about trials when they were ongoing.

Shut your mouth and let the process play out.

DAVIS: Excuse me for reminding. I'm reticent to pronounce a verdict about Donald Trump or to get on a political --

TAPPER: Yes.

DAVIS: This is like, is the trial --

TAPPER: I got to interrupt you, I'm so sorry. A courtroom break after Michael Cohen testified this morning that Donald Trump told him, you can take care of it. The it, were claims being made by adult film star and director Stormy Daniels. Cohen adding, quote, "This was all about the campaign."

CNN special live coverage continues with Laura Coates. Stay with us.